Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:16 AM - Re: Re: Super strong, super simple leading edge (Phillips, Jack)
2. 05:01 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Gene Rambo)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Ryan Mueller)
4. 05:51 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Gene Rambo)
5. 05:55 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Michael Perez)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (glennthomas@flyingwood.com)
7. 07:24 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Michael Perez)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Tim Willis)
9. 08:15 AM - white stuff on wings (Dick N.)
10. 09:38 AM - a wing cutout is a design change (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC])
11. 12:45 PM - Formed Control Horns (Catdesigns)
12. 01:00 PM - Re: Formed Control Horns (Michael Groah)
13. 01:09 PM - Re: Formed Control Horns (TOM STINEMETZE)
14. 01:12 PM - Re: Formed Control Horns (Mandy & Michael Green)
15. 02:54 PM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Gene Rambo)
16. 04:26 PM - Re: Leaing ege follow up (Peter W Johnson)
17. 05:59 PM - Re: Formed Control Horns (Don Emch)
18. 10:20 PM - Re: Old PopSci's available from 1930s via Google (Clif Dawson)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Super strong, super simple leading edge |
Us Green and Yellow (or Cream) Pietenpols gotta stick together!
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:07 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Super strong, super simple leading edge
It sure is nice to know I share a soapbox with a great guy like Jack
Phillips!
Do Not Archive
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218751#218751
_________________________________________________
or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify
the sender
Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk
- Portuguese
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
Peter:
I would have to see what the requirement is. What are we actually
talking about, a full D section structural leading edge, or just
wrapping the leading edge material (such as aluminum) all the way
around? I would be very surprised if they actually required a major
structural alteration such as an actual D box.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter W Johnson<mailto:vk3eka@bigpond.net.au>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 10:31 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
Gene,
The PFA (now LAA) in the UK "require" a D section on the leading edge
of the wing. I did mine that way and have no regrets.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com<http://www.cpc-world.com/>
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
Gene,
Sorry, couldn't resist....
In your first email in this thread you state: "Wrapping plywood all the way
around the leading edge from spar to spar would create, as many have pointed
out, a "D box" spar...."
In your reply to Peter you ask whether he is talking about an actual "D
box", or just wrapping the leading edge material all the way around. This
implies that just wrapping the leading edge material all the way around does
not create a "D box", which is contrary to your previous post.
Which is it? ;)
Have a good morning,
Ryan
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
> Peter:
>
> I would have to see what the requirement is. What are we actually talking
> about, a full D section structural leading edge, or just wrapping the
> leading edge material (such as aluminum) all the way around? I would be
> very surprised if they actually required a major structural alteration such
> as an actual D box.
>
> Gene
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
I believe that I said wrapping the material (aluminum, cardboard, etc)
all the way around. that was the point of my initial post, too many on
here are using terms interchangably and not being specific whether the
"leading edge" refers just to the wooden "stick" on the rib noses or the
entire area in front of the spar. I may not have been clear enough, but
read as a whole, I was stating that there is a difference between merely
wrapping aluminum all the way around, and forming plywood and glueing it
all the way around and to the spars, creating a D box.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller<mailto:rmueller23@gmail.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
Gene,
Sorry, couldn't resist....
In your first email in this thread you state: "Wrapping plywood all
the way around the leading edge from spar to spar would create, as many
have pointed out, a "D box" spar...."
In your reply to Peter you ask whether he is talking about an actual
"D box", or just wrapping the leading edge material all the way around.
This implies that just wrapping the leading edge material all the way
around does not create a "D box", which is contrary to your previous
post.
Which is it? ;)
Have a good morning,
Ryan
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Gene Rambo
<generambo@msn.com<mailto:generambo@msn.com>> wrote:
Peter:
I would have to see what the requirement is. What are we actually
talking about, a full D section structural leading edge, or just
wrapping the leading edge material (such as aluminum) all the way
around? I would be very surprised if they actually required a major
structural alteration such as an actual D box.
Gene
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
Gene, again, I never said I was making a "D" shaped enclosed frontal area.
See how things get messed up? I am not sure why this enclosed "D" leading e
dge came up. I actually questioned why the ply on top had to go back to the
spar, you say it does not.
-
What I see here and Gene's last email confirms it, that we are all guessing
! Some swear by the plans and having a stick leading edge, some agree you d
on't need one, or maybe even the plywood. That alone tells me what ever I c
ome up with will work. Looks like no one has any hard evidence one way or a
nother, just a lot of speculation.
-
We do agree on one thing Gene, wayyy out of hand! I thought it was a simple
question needing only some facts and a good explanation.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
UGVyaGFwcyBzb21lb25lIGNvdWxkIHJlcXVlc3QgdGhhdCBNYXR0IERyYWxsZSBjcmVhdGUgYW4g
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YXRpb24uDQoNCg0K
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
Rather then to continue to degrade this list and this-thread further with
useless comments like the one below, I will take the route of the more int
elligent people on this list who realize they have nothing-constructive
-to offer and move on.
My $0.02.
-
For those who responded with constructive responses/ideas/comments, I look
forward to your-thoughts in my future posts.
--- On Thu, 12/11/08, glennthomas@flyingwood.com <glennthomas@flyingwood.co
m> wrote:
From: glennthomas@flyingwood.com <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
Perhaps someone could request that Matt Dralle create an "off-the-wall idea
" list. It would help the 99% of us that don't want to redesign everything
just for the sake of doing it continue to enjoy this forum.
My $0.02.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
Michael,
I certainly have been guilty of trying to "improve the design" myself, and have
both marveled at the patience of experienced builders on this site and profited
from their detailed input. Maybe it's just an unfortunate choice of words
on your part, or my faulty interpretation of them, but I am going to make my first
derogatory post in over three years on this site. Here goes.
>From the following comments you have made, it seems to me that you don't take
instruction very well:
"What I see here and Gene's last email confirms it, that we are all guessing! Some
swear by the plans and having a stick leading edge, some agree you don't need
one, or maybe even the plywood. That alone tells me what ever I come up with
will work. Looks like no one has any hard evidence one way or another, just
a lot of speculation."
You have various ideas on how to change the design, ask for comments, then get
lengthy and detailed explanations from experienced builders, giving freely of
their time at no cost to you, then conclude what?
No one can know what is essential under the most rigorous conditions without destruction
testing. However, you have been told what is workable, and why, in
great detail:
-- what is stronger, but how little strength is needed;
-- what is easiest to form and/or bend;
-- what has sufficient strength vs. weight;
-- which LE is easiest to match surfaces with plywood, and how;
-- the pros and cons of plywood vs. aluminum;
-- what has been used on other aircraft designs, and to what effect;
-- empirical evidence from hangar rash and bad landings;
-- protection from the hazards of hangar rash;
-- considerations of ease of repair;
-- effects of various shapes, etc., etc.
-- considerations in extending the plywood, top and bottom;
-- considerations of a "D" box spar;
-- and more.........................
Then you call it all "guessing" or "speculation". In contrast, you have been given
by informed and experienced builders and fliers the very parameters to develop
an ideal setup.
For one, I hope you will find the perfect match for your tools, skills and needs.
Maybe that is what you meant to say, opr even said. I believe this subject
has been discussed more exhaustively than previously, and fruitfully as well,
thanks to you and your respondents. Use the information well.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Dec 11, 2008 7:55 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
>
>Gene, again, I never said I was making a "D" shaped enclosed frontal area. See
how things get messed up? I am not sure why this enclosed "D" leading edge came
up. I actually questioned why the ply on top had to go back to the spar, you
say it does not.
>
>What I see here and Gene's last email confirms it, that we are all guessing! Some
swear by the plans and having a stick leading edge, some agree you don't need
one, or maybe even the plywood. That alone tells me what ever I come up with
will work. Looks like no one has any hard evidence one way or another, just
a lot of speculation.
>
>We do agree on one thing Gene, wayyy out of hand! I thought it was a simple question
needing only some facts and a good explanation.
>
Message 9
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Subject: | white stuff on wings |
Hey Corky,
How's it looking out there this morning?
Dick N.
Message 10
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Subject: | a wing cutout is a design change |
Gene R. wrote:
By the way, the wing cut out for the pilot to enter the cockpit was in
the original design, so when you "talk about a design change", you might
want to use another example.
Technically there is no wing cutout on the Pietenpol plans as the
complete airfoil goes along for the ride every time you fly
in the form of a hinged 'flop' whereas a wing cutout never does.
Message 11
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Subject: | Formed Control Horns |
Did anyone rust protect the inside of the the formed control horns so they don't
rust from the inside out? If so what did you use?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218952#218952
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Formed Control Horns |
Although I'm not done with my project yet, I did shoot some primer into the interior
through the opening that's left at the attachment area. I figured I should
coat the bare metal with something in there.
Did anyone rust protect the inside of the the formed control horns so they don't
rust from the inside out? If so what did you use?
Chris
Sacramento, CA
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218952#218952
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Formed Control Horns |
>Did anyone rust protect the inside of the the formed control horns so
they don't rust from the inside out? If so what did you use?
>Chris
>Sacramento, CA
Chris:
I haven't built any control horns yet but plan to protect them on the
outside with Zinc Oxide purchased from Aircraft Spruce in the typical
rattle can. I have used this successfully with all my metal parts so far
- just obey the safety instructions as this can be nasty stuff. A.S.
carries both Zinc Chromate and Zinc Oxide in rattle cans. As for the
inside of the part - since it will have holes drilled into both ends it
should be possible to slosh oil in there just like you would a tubing
framework. Help me out list members, isn't this normally linseed oil? I
don't believe that you would want to spray the part with the Zinc product
prior to welding as this would contaminate the weld and probably produce
some gasses you don't want to inhale.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS.
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Formed Control Horns |
Chris,
I used LPS3, but I guess any rust preventitive compound will work well.
Mike Green
Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns@att.net>
Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 7:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Formed Control Horns
>
> Did anyone rust protect the inside of the the formed control horns so they
> don't rust from the inside out? If so what did you use?
>
> Chris
> Sacramento, CA
>
> --------
> Chris Tracy
> Sacramento, CA
> WestCoastPiet.com
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=218952#218952
>
>
> __________ NOD32 3682 (20081210) Information __________
>
>
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Leaing ege follow up |
Michael, I am not guessing at anything, I have been doing this stuff for
over 30 years as an A&P/IA. Do whatever you want.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez<mailto:speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
Rather then to continue to degrade this list and this thread
further with useless comments like the one below, I will take the route
of the more intelligent people on this list who realize they have
nothing constructive to offer and move on.
My $0.02.
For those who responded with constructive
responses/ideas/comments, I look forward to your thoughts in my future
posts.
--- On Thu, 12/11/08, glennthomas@flyingwood.com
<glennthomas@flyingwood.com> wrote:
From: glennthomas@flyingwood.com <glennthomas@flyingwood.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Thursday, December 11, 2008, 9:59 AM
Perhaps someone could request that Matt Dralle create an
"off-the-wall idea" list. It would help the 99% of us that don't want to
redesign everything just for the sake of doing it continue to enjoy this
forum.
My $0.02.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
----------------------------------------------------------------------
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3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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ontribution">
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ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">
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http://forums.matronics.com<about:3D"http://forums.matronics.com">
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3D
Message 16
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Subject: | Leaing ege follow up |
Gene,
I built my Piet to Jim Will's PFA approved plans. They include the shaped
spruce leading edge (nose piece) covered from the top of the front spar,
around the leading edge nose spruce and all the way to the bottom of the
front spar. This forms a structural D section forward of the front spar. All
the nose ribs and top and bottom spar contact points are glued.
Cheers
Peter
Wonthaggi
http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/> (check out "Airframe
Construction" -> "Wings" -> "Outer Sections"
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo
Sent: Friday, 12 December 2008 12:51 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
I believe that I said wrapping the material (aluminum, cardboard, etc) all
the way around. that was the point of my initial post, too many on here are
using terms interchangably and not being specific whether the "leading edge"
refers just to the wooden "stick" on the rib noses or the entire area in
front of the spar. I may not have been clear enough, but read as a whole, I
was stating that there is a difference between merely wrapping aluminum all
the way around, and forming plywood and glueing it all the way around and to
the spars, creating a D box.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller <mailto:rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Leaing ege follow up
Gene,
Sorry, couldn't resist....
In your first email in this thread you state: "Wrapping plywood all the way
around the leading edge from spar to spar would create, as many have pointed
out, a "D box" spar...."
In your reply to Peter you ask whether he is talking about an actual "D
box", or just wrapping the leading edge material all the way around. This
implies that just wrapping the leading edge material all the way around does
not create a "D box", which is contrary to your previous post.
Which is it? ;)
Have a good morning,
Ryan
On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 7:00 AM, Gene Rambo <generambo@msn.com> wrote:
Peter:
I would have to see what the requirement is. What are we actually talking
about, a full D section structural leading edge, or just wrapping the
leading edge material (such as aluminum) all the way around? I would be
very surprised if they actually required a major structural alteration such
as an actual D box.
Gene
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Subject: | Re: Formed Control Horns |
Chris,
I did. I used boiled linseed oil. It just seems like that would be an area for
moisture to collect.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=219003#219003
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Subject: | Re: Old PopSci's available from 1930s via Google |
RE: Pietenpol-List: Old PopSci's available from 1930s via GoogleAnd then
there's these;
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=42563&cat=1,46096,461
00
Our ancestors came up with some truly outragious stuff.
Clif
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 11:16 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Old PopSci's available from 1930s via
Google
Too Cool.
People were apparently a lot more self-sufficient way back when.
I could spend hours looking through those old magazines.
Now, how am I going to find time to build.
Thanks for the link, Mike.
Bill C.
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