Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:39 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Jack T. Textor)
2. 06:13 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (JERRY GROGAN)
3. 06:32 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez)
4. 06:40 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez)
5. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Piet project for a song (del magsam)
6. 08:00 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Ed G.)
7. 10:24 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Catdesigns)
8. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez)
9. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Wing tip bow (Ed G.)
10. 01:59 PM - Alan Weise's Piet (Oscar Zuniga)
11. 02:00 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (Pieti Lowell)
12. 03:35 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (walt)
13. 03:45 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (Catdesigns)
14. 04:09 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez)
15. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez)
16. 04:47 PM - wing tip bows (HelsperSew@aol.com)
17. 05:53 PM - Re: wing tip bows (Gene & Tammy)
18. 06:09 PM - Re: wing tip bows (Dick N.)
19. 06:25 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (bike.mike)
20. 08:46 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (zk-owl)
21. 09:01 PM - Re: Re: Piet project for a song (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
Message 1
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Don't forget the tip serves as an additional compression strut. On mine
I added 2 additional struts just inboard of the last rib.
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
That is a great point Jack. Thanks for mentioning that. There are as
many idea's on wing tips as there are airplanes. In our work with
designing wing tips we found that they mostly just add wing area and
looks. But on the Piet as Jack sights, they are also used for the
compression struts. Good catch.
Jerry Grogan
Sky Classic Aircraft
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack T. Textor
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
Don't forget the tip serves as an additional compression strut. On
mine I added 2 additional struts just inboard of the last rib.
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
I am aware of the compression strut properties of the wing tip. This was part of
the reason I was asking about using a straight piece. I don't believe that a
flat tip will weaken the wing for compression, but I don't know what, if anything,
it will change aerodynamically. I had hoped that there were Piets. out there
with "modified" tips flying.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Thanks Walt. I think about the "what ifs" when I plan a change. That is why I ask
here on the list, to see if anyone has done/tried/seen such a change and knows
the differences that change has made.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Piet project for a song |
Hi tom
I have a guy in Ill that put his name it, I'll let you know if the deal falls through.
It is the long fuse for a vair.
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
--- On Thu, 12/18/08, Tom Anderson <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Tom Anderson <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song
<tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
I can sing! :D
Is it the std. or long fuselage version?
--------
Location: Wilson, NC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220006#220006
Message 6
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One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the last
eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the "what
ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes=2C somethings need to be c
hanged to work in todays airport environment=2C BUT. Everything that I have
changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one something else
to work with the change which requires more planning and experimenting whi
ch adds exponentially to the build time. So=2C I have learned that at least
with my limited time to devote to my Piet=2C If I ever plan to fly the thi
ng=2C I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's
amazing how much progress can be made when just building to the plans.
Ed G. Do Not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Flat tips have been done, and seemed to work. Mr. Weise flew this plane for a
long long time with some rather interesting changes to it.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n3513.htm
chris
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220167#220167
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Those are quite the pictures. I like the brakes and the gold metal on the nose.
The all wood struts are different too.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
I've seen Allan Weise's Piet many times and it flew great for 40 some years
. I guess a picture IS worth a thousand words. I thought the discussion was
about replacing the bowed wing tip bow with a straight piece of wood and i
t just wasn't working for me. Thanks for the pic. Ed> Subject: Pietenpol-L
ist: Re: Wing tip bow> From: Catdesigns@att.net> Date: Fri=2C 19 Dec 2008 1
0:23:42 -0800> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > --> Pietenpol-List messa
ge posted by: "Catdesigns" <Catdesigns@att.net>> > Flat tips have been done
=2C and seemed to work. Mr. Weise flew this plane for a long long time with
some rather interesting changes to it.> > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n35
13.htm> > > chris> > --------> Chris Tracy> Sacramento=2C CA> WestCoastPiet
.com> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/v
======> > >
Message 10
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| Subject: | Alan Weise's Piet |
Ha-! He solved the problem of mag compass interference by using wooden con
trol sticks alright... SQUARE wooden sticks=2C no less!
I tell you=2C it's the simplest ones that seem to fly the most hours and sp
end the least amount of time in the hangar.Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
The wing tip bow wasn't on my first Piet, it was a flat board, not good looking,
but made a nice place for advertising, etc. She still flew and handled OK. I
flew that bird from Florida to Wisconsin, and a bunch of years after. That also
was my first Piet flown to Brodhead in the mid 70,s.
There were a number of wings built with a square end and all flew well.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220192#220192
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Good for you Ed G.!
Build to the plans.
PS This isn't a "what can I change on the plans", site.
PPS To me , It's belittleing Bernard Pietenpol's talents, to try to
change his plans.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
To: piet-list piet-list
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the
last eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the
"what ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes, somethings need
to be changed to work in todays airport environment, BUT. Everything
that I have changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one
something else to work with the change which requires more planning and
experimenting which adds exponentially to the build time. So, I have
learned that at least with my limited time to devote to my Piet, If I
ever plan to fly the thing, I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning"
and keep building. It's amazing how much progress can be made when just
building to the plans. Ed G. Do Not archive
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
This one was at Broadhead 2007.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/pete_smith.htm
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220211#220211
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Sorry Walt, I will build my plane the way I want to. Sorry you interpret my
questions as a negative.
-
For the others, thanks or the posts and the link to those great pictures. I
was not thinking of a flat boeard as the pictures show, I was going to use
a tip, just not curved. We'll see, not quite there yet.
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, walt <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
From: walt <waltdak@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
#yiv374217682 .hmmessage P {
PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TO
P:0px;}
#yiv374217682 {
FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;}
Good for you Ed G.!
-
Build to the plans.
-
-
PS This isn't a "what can I change on the plans", site.
-
PPS To me , It's belittleing Bernard Pietenpol's talents,- to try to chan
ge his plans.
-
walt evans
NX140DL
-
-
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
-One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the la
st-eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the "w
hat ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes, somethings need to be
changed to work in todays airport environment, BUT. Everything that I have
changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one something else
to work with the change which requires more planning and experimenting whi
ch adds exponentially to the build time.-So, I have learned that at least
with my limited time to devote to my Piet, If I ever plan to fly the thing
,-I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's am
azing how much progress can be made when- just building-to the plans.
--- Ed G.- Do Not archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr
ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni
cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Very nice! Looks like a flat board wing tip, wheel pants, modified turtle deck,
(I think that is what that is called) and a solid rod type control on the elevator.
Some of you guys must be pulling out your hair! Thanks for the pics Chris.
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, Catdesigns <Catdesigns@att.net> wrote:
From: Catdesigns <Catdesigns@att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow
<Catdesigns@att.net>
This one was at Broadhead 2007.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/pete_smith.htm
--------
Chris Tracy
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
Message 16
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these variations from the plans.........can't take it anymore.
Flat board wing tips....I have two words for you, just two
words.........UGH...LEE
If you want to build a different airplane, tune to another site! ......spare
us
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: wing tip bows |
TIME OUT EVERYONE!! I can't believe what I'm reading. Because someone
asked questions or suggested he might do things differently he's told to
go to another site? Unless this is some kind of joke.......
Up to this date this has been the very best building site on the web.
The most helpful, the most patience shown toward new and lost builders
and just good old fashion camaraderie.
Of all the people involved, I believe B. Pietenpol would be the most
vocal for change.
I haven't built a Piet (I bought mine) but if I were to build one I
would change a few things. I would make the dash slope toward the front
so I could read the instruments better and I would make the cockpit
wider for comfort.
A lot of changes others talk about I just roll my eyes at and wonder why
their building a Piet. But....it's their airplane, they can do as they
please. There's room here for all of us and I for one learn from all of
you.
If, somehow, I'm misunderstanding all of this and this is just good
humor among friends, then I apologize to all for getting on my soapbox.
Gene in windy Tennessee
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: wing tip bows |
Good post, Gene. Winter takes a toll on everyone.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Gene & Tammy
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:52 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tip bows
TIME OUT EVERYONE!! I can't believe what I'm reading. Because
someone asked questions or suggested he might do things differently he's
told to go to another site? Unless this is some kind of joke.......
Up to this date this has been the very best building site on the web.
The most helpful, the most patience shown toward new and lost builders
and just good old fashion camaraderie.
Of all the people involved, I believe B. Pietenpol would be the most
vocal for change.
I haven't built a Piet (I bought mine) but if I were to build one I
would change a few things. I would make the dash slope toward the front
so I could read the instruments better and I would make the cockpit
wider for comfort.
A lot of changes others talk about I just roll my eyes at and wonder
why their building a Piet. But....it's their airplane, they can do as
they please. There's room here for all of us and I for one learn from
all of you.
If, somehow, I'm misunderstanding all of this and this is just good
humor among friends, then I apologize to all for getting on my soapbox.
Gene in windy Tennessee
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Michael,
This list is a warm and friendly home to all types of enthusiasts.
Most of us here are type B, building pretty much to plan but changing a
few things to suit us and our budgets and operational reality. (If it
looks somewhat like a Piet, then it is a Piet.)
There are the type A, who build exactly to the plans as they were drawn
in 1933, or was it 1934, and published in the Flying and Glider manual,
or sold by the third and/or fourth generation of Pietenpol descenants.
These plans are an exact representation of BHP's airplane as it was
right between his 101st and 102nd modifications. (If it has an aluminum
head on the Model A engine, then it isn't a Pietenpol. A three-piece
wing is suspect.) (and it's "Bernard", never "Bernie")
Then there are the type C. These are the folks who believe that
building an experimental airplane is a learning experience. They want
to enjoy the same process and progress that BHP did. They want to
experiment with available materials, like BHP did. They want to try new
things, like BHP did.
Bernard Pietenpol built a number of airplanes, no two of them exactly
alike. He was able to learn a lot from his building and flying, you
should too. (It's rumored that his first one did not have seatbelts).
The guys here who say you should build to plan are right, if you want to
fly soon in an airplane whose experimentation was enjoyed more than 75
years ago. If you want a replica of an historical airplane, you have to
add in some knowledge gained from old photographs and written history.
But if you want to learn a lot, experiment, using some of the answers
you get here as a guide to keep you out of trouble.
And don't ever think that experimenting just like BHP did is in any way
belittling what he accomplished.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
Sorry Walt, I will build my plane the way I want to. Sorry you
interpret my questions as a negative.
For the others, thanks or the posts and the link to those great
pictures. I was not thinking of a flat boeard as the pictures show, I
was going to use a tip, just not curved. We'll see, not quite there yet.
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, walt <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tip bow |
Hi Michael. a straight piece of timber at the wing tip may tend to bow
inwards when the fabric is tightened.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
Sorry Walt, I will build my plane the way I want to. Sorry you
interpret my questions as a negative.
For the others, thanks or the posts and the link to those great
pictures. I was not thinking of a flat boeard as the pictures show, I
was going to use a tip, just not curved. We'll see, not quite there yet.
--- On Fri, 12/19/08, walt <waltdak@verizon.net> wrote:
From: walt <waltdak@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:34 PM
Good for you Ed G.!
Build to the plans.
PS This isn't a "what can I change on the plans", site.
PPS To me , It's belittleing Bernard Pietenpol's talents, to
try to change his plans.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
To: piet-list piet-list
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:59 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow
One of the many things I have learned while building my
Piet over the last eight years is that the master has already figuered
out most of the "what ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes,
somethings need to be changed to work in todays airport environment,
BUT. Everything that I have changed has added extra planning and
changeing at least one something else to work with the change which
requires more planning and experimenting which adds exponentially to the
build time. So, I have learned that at least with my limited time to
devote to my Piet, If I ever plan to fly the thing, I had better quit
"Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's amazing how much
progress can be made when just building to the plans. Ed G. Do Not
archive
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Piet project for a song |
sounds good=2C let me know .
Tom B.
From: farmerdel@rocketmail.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song
Hi tom
I have a guy in Ill that put his name it=2C I'll let you know if the deal f
alls through. It is the long fuse for a vair.
Del-New Richmond=2C Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
--- On Thu=2C 12/18/08=2C Tom Anderson <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Tom Anderson <tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song
<tomanderson_nc@yahoo.com>
I can sing! :D
Is it the std. or long fuselage version?
--------
Location: Wilson=2C NC
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220006#220006
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