---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/19/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:39 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Jack T. Textor) 2. 06:13 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (JERRY GROGAN) 3. 06:32 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez) 4. 06:40 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez) 5. 07:45 AM - Re: Re: Piet project for a song (del magsam) 6. 08:00 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Ed G.) 7. 10:24 AM - Re: Wing tip bow (Catdesigns) 8. 11:16 AM - Re: Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez) 9. 11:21 AM - Re: Re: Wing tip bow (Ed G.) 10. 01:59 PM - Alan Weise's Piet (Oscar Zuniga) 11. 02:00 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (Pieti Lowell) 12. 03:35 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (walt) 13. 03:45 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (Catdesigns) 14. 04:09 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez) 15. 04:13 PM - Re: Re: Wing tip bow (Michael Perez) 16. 04:47 PM - wing tip bows (HelsperSew@aol.com) 17. 05:53 PM - Re: wing tip bows (Gene & Tammy) 18. 06:09 PM - Re: wing tip bows (Dick N.) 19. 06:25 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (bike.mike) 20. 08:46 PM - Re: Wing tip bow (zk-owl) 21. 09:01 PM - Re: Re: Piet project for a song (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:39:55 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow From: "Jack T. Textor" Don't forget the tip serves as an additional compression strut. On mine I added 2 additional struts just inboard of the last rib. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:57 AM PST US From: "JERRY GROGAN" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow That is a great point Jack. Thanks for mentioning that. There are as many idea's on wing tips as there are airplanes. In our work with designing wing tips we found that they mostly just add wing area and looks. But on the Piet as Jack sights, they are also used for the compression struts. Good catch. Jerry Grogan Sky Classic Aircraft ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 2:39 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Don't forget the tip serves as an additional compression strut. On mine I added 2 additional struts just inboard of the last rib. Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:48 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow I am aware of the compression strut properties of the wing tip. This was part of the reason I was asking about using a straight piece. I don't believe that a flat tip will weaken the wing for compression, but I don't know what, if anything, it will change aerodynamically. I had hoped that there were Piets. out there with "modified" tips flying. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:10 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Thanks Walt. I think about the "what ifs" when I plan a change. That is why I ask here on the list, to see if anyone has done/tried/seen such a change and knows the differences that change has made. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:45:39 AM PST US From: del magsam Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song Hi tom I have a guy in Ill that put his name it, I'll let you know if the deal falls through. It is the long fuse for a vair. Del-New Richmond, Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --- On Thu, 12/18/08, Tom Anderson wrote: From: Tom Anderson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song I can sing! :D Is it the std. or long fuselage version? -------- Location: Wilson, NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220006#220006 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:00:30 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the last eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the "what ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes=2C somethings need to be c hanged to work in todays airport environment=2C BUT. Everything that I have changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one something else to work with the change which requires more planning and experimenting whi ch adds exponentially to the build time. So=2C I have learned that at least with my limited time to devote to my Piet=2C If I ever plan to fly the thi ng=2C I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's amazing how much progress can be made when just building to the plans. Ed G. Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow From: "Catdesigns" Flat tips have been done, and seemed to work. Mr. Weise flew this plane for a long long time with some rather interesting changes to it. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n3513.htm chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220167#220167 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:16:32 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow Those are quite the pictures. I like the brakes and the gold metal on the nose. The all wood struts are different too. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:49 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow I've seen Allan Weise's Piet many times and it flew great for 40 some years . I guess a picture IS worth a thousand words. I thought the discussion was about replacing the bowed wing tip bow with a straight piece of wood and i t just wasn't working for me. Thanks for the pic. Ed> Subject: Pietenpol-L ist: Re: Wing tip bow> From: Catdesigns@att.net> Date: Fri=2C 19 Dec 2008 1 0:23:42 -0800> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > --> Pietenpol-List messa ge posted by: "Catdesigns" > > Flat tips have been done =2C and seemed to work. Mr. Weise flew this plane for a long long time with some rather interesting changes to it.> > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/n35 13.htm> > > chris> > --------> Chris Tracy> Sacramento=2C CA> WestCoastPiet .com> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/v ======> > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:59:09 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Alan Weise's Piet Ha-! He solved the problem of mag compass interference by using wooden con trol sticks alright... SQUARE wooden sticks=2C no less! I tell you=2C it's the simplest ones that seem to fly the most hours and sp end the least amount of time in the hangar.Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:09 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow From: "Pieti Lowell" The wing tip bow wasn't on my first Piet, it was a flat board, not good looking, but made a nice place for advertising, etc. She still flew and handled OK. I flew that bird from Florida to Wisconsin, and a bunch of years after. That also was my first Piet flown to Brodhead in the mid 70,s. There were a number of wings built with a square end and all flew well. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220192#220192 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:35:51 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Good for you Ed G.! Build to the plans. PS This isn't a "what can I change on the plans", site. PPS To me , It's belittleing Bernard Pietenpol's talents, to try to change his plans. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the last eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the "what ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes, somethings need to be changed to work in todays airport environment, BUT. Everything that I have changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one something else to work with the change which requires more planning and experimenting which adds exponentially to the build time. So, I have learned that at least with my limited time to devote to my Piet, If I ever plan to fly the thing, I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's amazing how much progress can be made when just building to the plans. Ed G. Do Not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:45:24 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow From: "Catdesigns" This one was at Broadhead 2007. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/pete_smith.htm -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220211#220211 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:20 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Sorry Walt, I will build my plane the way I want to. Sorry you interpret my questions as a negative. - For the others, thanks or the posts and the link to those great pictures. I was not thinking of a flat boeard as the pictures show, I was going to use a tip, just not curved. We'll see, not quite there yet. --- On Fri, 12/19/08, walt wrote: From: walt Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow #yiv374217682 .hmmessage P { PADDING-RIGHT:0px;PADDING-LEFT:0px;PADDING-BOTTOM:0px;MARGIN:0px;PADDING-TO P:0px;} #yiv374217682 { FONT-SIZE:10pt;FONT-FAMILY:Verdana;} Good for you Ed G.! - Build to the plans. - - PS This isn't a "what can I change on the plans", site. - PPS To me , It's belittleing Bernard Pietenpol's talents,- to try to chan ge his plans. - walt evans NX140DL - - ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow -One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the la st-eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the "w hat ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes, somethings need to be changed to work in todays airport environment, BUT. Everything that I have changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one something else to work with the change which requires more planning and experimenting whi ch adds exponentially to the build time.-So, I have learned that at least with my limited time to devote to my Piet, If I ever plan to fly the thing ,-I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's am azing how much progress can be made when- just building-to the plans. --- Ed G.- Do Not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chr ef="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matroni cs.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:26 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow Very nice! Looks like a flat board wing tip, wheel pants, modified turtle deck, (I think that is what that is called) and a solid rod type control on the elevator. Some of you guys must be pulling out your hair! Thanks for the pics Chris. --- On Fri, 12/19/08, Catdesigns wrote: From: Catdesigns Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wing tip bow This one was at Broadhead 2007. http://www.westcoastpiet.com/pete_smith.htm -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:47:00 PM PST US From: HelsperSew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing tip bows these variations from the plans.........can't take it anymore. Flat board wing tips....I have two words for you, just two words.........UGH...LEE If you want to build a different airplane, tune to another site! ......spare us Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. **************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail, Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:53:27 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tip bows TIME OUT EVERYONE!! I can't believe what I'm reading. Because someone asked questions or suggested he might do things differently he's told to go to another site? Unless this is some kind of joke....... Up to this date this has been the very best building site on the web. The most helpful, the most patience shown toward new and lost builders and just good old fashion camaraderie. Of all the people involved, I believe B. Pietenpol would be the most vocal for change. I haven't built a Piet (I bought mine) but if I were to build one I would change a few things. I would make the dash slope toward the front so I could read the instruments better and I would make the cockpit wider for comfort. A lot of changes others talk about I just roll my eyes at and wonder why their building a Piet. But....it's their airplane, they can do as they please. There's room here for all of us and I for one learn from all of you. If, somehow, I'm misunderstanding all of this and this is just good humor among friends, then I apologize to all for getting on my soapbox. Gene in windy Tennessee ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:09:24 PM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tip bows Good post, Gene. Winter takes a toll on everyone. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wing tip bows TIME OUT EVERYONE!! I can't believe what I'm reading. Because someone asked questions or suggested he might do things differently he's told to go to another site? Unless this is some kind of joke....... Up to this date this has been the very best building site on the web. The most helpful, the most patience shown toward new and lost builders and just good old fashion camaraderie. Of all the people involved, I believe B. Pietenpol would be the most vocal for change. I haven't built a Piet (I bought mine) but if I were to build one I would change a few things. I would make the dash slope toward the front so I could read the instruments better and I would make the cockpit wider for comfort. A lot of changes others talk about I just roll my eyes at and wonder why their building a Piet. But....it's their airplane, they can do as they please. There's room here for all of us and I for one learn from all of you. If, somehow, I'm misunderstanding all of this and this is just good humor among friends, then I apologize to all for getting on my soapbox. Gene in windy Tennessee ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:25:41 PM PST US From: "bike.mike" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Michael, This list is a warm and friendly home to all types of enthusiasts. Most of us here are type B, building pretty much to plan but changing a few things to suit us and our budgets and operational reality. (If it looks somewhat like a Piet, then it is a Piet.) There are the type A, who build exactly to the plans as they were drawn in 1933, or was it 1934, and published in the Flying and Glider manual, or sold by the third and/or fourth generation of Pietenpol descenants. These plans are an exact representation of BHP's airplane as it was right between his 101st and 102nd modifications. (If it has an aluminum head on the Model A engine, then it isn't a Pietenpol. A three-piece wing is suspect.) (and it's "Bernard", never "Bernie") Then there are the type C. These are the folks who believe that building an experimental airplane is a learning experience. They want to enjoy the same process and progress that BHP did. They want to experiment with available materials, like BHP did. They want to try new things, like BHP did. Bernard Pietenpol built a number of airplanes, no two of them exactly alike. He was able to learn a lot from his building and flying, you should too. (It's rumored that his first one did not have seatbelts). The guys here who say you should build to plan are right, if you want to fly soon in an airplane whose experimentation was enjoyed more than 75 years ago. If you want a replica of an historical airplane, you have to add in some knowledge gained from old photographs and written history. But if you want to learn a lot, experiment, using some of the answers you get here as a guide to keep you out of trouble. And don't ever think that experimenting just like BHP did is in any way belittling what he accomplished. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 4:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Sorry Walt, I will build my plane the way I want to. Sorry you interpret my questions as a negative. For the others, thanks or the posts and the link to those great pictures. I was not thinking of a flat boeard as the pictures show, I was going to use a tip, just not curved. We'll see, not quite there yet. --- On Fri, 12/19/08, walt wrote: ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:46:34 PM PST US From: zk-owl Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Hi Michael. a straight piece of timber at the wing tip may tend to bow inwards when the fabric is tightened. Regards Mike T. ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, December 20, 2008 1:08 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow Sorry Walt, I will build my plane the way I want to. Sorry you interpret my questions as a negative. For the others, thanks or the posts and the link to those great pictures. I was not thinking of a flat boeard as the pictures show, I was going to use a tip, just not curved. We'll see, not quite there yet. --- On Fri, 12/19/08, walt wrote: From: walt Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Date: Friday, December 19, 2008, 6:34 PM Good for you Ed G.! Build to the plans. PS This isn't a "what can I change on the plans", site. PPS To me , It's belittleing Bernard Pietenpol's talents, to try to change his plans. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. To: piet-list piet-list Sent: Friday, December 19, 2008 10:59 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing tip bow One of the many things I have learned while building my Piet over the last eight years is that the master has already figuered out most of the "what ifs" for us. That's why we bought his plans. Yes, somethings need to be changed to work in todays airport environment, BUT. Everything that I have changed has added extra planning and changeing at least one something else to work with the change which requires more planning and experimenting which adds exponentially to the build time. So, I have learned that at least with my limited time to devote to my Piet, If I ever plan to fly the thing, I had better quit "Changeing" and "Planning" and keep building. It's amazing how much progress can be made when just building to the plans. Ed G. Do Not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:51 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song sounds good=2C let me know . Tom B. From: farmerdel@rocketmail.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song Hi tom I have a guy in Ill that put his name it=2C I'll let you know if the deal f alls through. It is the long fuse for a vair. Del-New Richmond=2C Wi "farmerdel@rocketmail.com" --- On Thu=2C 12/18/08=2C Tom Anderson wrote: From: Tom Anderson Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Piet project for a song I can sing! :D Is it the std. or long fuselage version? -------- Location: Wilson=2C NC Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=220006#220006 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.