Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:32 AM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 (Tim Willis)
2. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 (Gardiner Mason)
3. 06:34 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 (Ryan Mueller)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 (Michael Perez)
5. 06:43 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 (amsafetyc@aol.com)
6. 06:58 AM - Re: Re: Wing Tips (Al Hays)
7. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Wing Tips (Ryan Mueller)
8. 09:42 AM - Wing tips (helspersew@aol.com)
9. 10:24 AM - Re: Wing tips (amsafetyc@aol.com)
10. 10:34 AM - Re: Wingtips (Richard Carden)
11. 11:37 AM - Re: Wing tips (Jeff Boatright)
12. 12:04 PM - back to flat board wingtips (Lawrence Williams)
13. 12:12 PM - Re: Wing tips (H RULE)
14. 01:07 PM - Re: Wing Tips (Pieti Lowell)
15. 07:09 PM - 612 and 613.5 Winglets (LarryB55)
16. 08:00 PM - Re: 612 and 613.5 Winglets (Roman Bukolt)
17. 08:28 PM - Re: Back to the flat board wing tips (Bill Princell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 |
Michael,
Such a flat wingtip will have more drag and less lift, as the underside air will
vortex more over the tip and onto the top of the wing. This pushes down on
the wing (less lift), and the turbulence causes more drag. Moreover, as others
have pointed out, such a wingtip is UGLY, and it doesn't look like a Pietenpol.
After all, part of the charm of a Piet is the wingtip on the Hershey-bar
wing.
But, build it as you like.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
>Time: 09:04:52 AM PST US
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Back to the flat board wing tips
>
>I am curious, anyone know for sure if these flat board-tipped Piets. used the
standard
>size wing, or did they make them longer? Since the plans show the ailerons
>going past the last rib and out to the tip, did these flat board wings stop
>at the rib, making the wing a few inches shorter? If so, I wonder how this
>shorter aileron flew. Anyong flying this type of wing tip?
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 |
Hey ya'll, how would winglets on the end of the flat board wing tips work?
Just a thought what with all the discussion on this subject. Merry Christmas
all. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08
> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Michael,
>
> Such a flat wingtip will have more drag and less lift, as the underside
> air will vortex more over the tip and onto the top of the wing. This
> pushes down on the wing (less lift), and the turbulence causes more drag.
> Moreover, as others have pointed out, such a wingtip is UGLY, and it
> doesn't look like a Pietenpol. After all, part of the charm of a Piet is
> the wingtip on the Hershey-bar wing.
>
> But, build it as you like.
>
> Tim in central TX
> do not archive
>
>>Time: 09:04:52 AM PST US
>>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Back to the flat board wing tips
>>
>>I am curious, anyone know for sure if these flat board-tipped Piets. used
>>the standard
>>size wing, or did they make them longer? Since the plans show the ailerons
>>going past the last rib and out to the tip, did these flat board wings
>>stop
>>at the rib, making the wing a few inches shorter? If so, I wonder how this
>>shorter aileron flew. Anyong flying this type of wing tip?
>>
>
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 |
First, if you were to install a winglet onto the wingtip then you would no
longer have a flat slab sided wingtip....because you replaced it with a
winglet.
Second, it would be ridiculous, morphodite airplane....IMHO. :P
Merry Christmas everyone!
Ryan
On Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 7:19 AM, Gardiner Mason <airlion@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> airlion@bellsouth.net>
>
> Hey ya'll, how would winglets on the end of the flat board wing tips work?
> Just a thought what with all the discussion on this subject. Merry Christmas
> all. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 |
Thanks Tim, but I don't plan on using the flat board tip. My original questions
were in relation to the ailerons with this flat board design, whether or not
the wings were longer or standard, changes in the aileron length, etc.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08 |
Merry Christmas to all! What it would look like is or what you may call it are
little consequence ultimately it is your airplane built by and for your purposes
Go fourth and build
John
------Original Message------
From: Gardiner Mason
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Dec 25, 2008 8:19 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08
Hey ya'll, how would winglets on the end of the flat board wing tips work?
Just a thought what with all the discussion on this subject. Merry Christmas
all. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 7:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08
> <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Michael,
>
> Such a flat wingtip will have more drag and less lift, as the underside
> air will vortex more over the tip and onto the top of the wing. This
> pushes down on the wing (less lift), and the turbulence causes more drag.
> Moreover, as others have pointed out, such a wingtip is UGLY, and it
> doesn't look like a Pietenpol. After all, part of the charm of a Piet is
> the wingtip on the Hershey-bar wing.
>
> But, build it as you like.
>
> Tim in central TX
> do not archive
>
>>Time: 09:04:52 AM PST US
>>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Back to the flat board wing tips
>>
>>I am curious, anyone know for sure if these flat board-tipped Piets. used
>>the standard
>>size wing, or did they make them longer? Since the plans show the ailerons
>>going past the last rib and out to the tip, did these flat board wings
>>stop
>>at the rib, making the wing a few inches shorter? If so, I wonder how this
>>shorter aileron flew. Anyong flying this type of wing tip?
>>
>
>
>
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 6
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At the risk of getting flamed here, especially since I think this is
my first post to this list, how about Hornier tips? While the winglet
suggestion might work, it was obviously (I hope) tongue-in-cheek and
evokes a funny mental picture. The Hornier tip should theoretically
increase the effective length and look neat. Whether it would be in
character with Pietenpol design philosophy may be questionable
though. I wonder if the Hornier tip would be harder to make than the
usual rounded tip and if any performance benefit it could provide is
needed by anyone anyhow.
I was intending to start a Piet about 19 years ago and bought a set of
plans but "life interfered". The plans may not be the real McCoy and
I may need to get a set of the recognized Pietenpol plans before
trying again. There seems to be at least a couple sources for plans
currently available and I suspect I'm not the only one who'd
appreciate suggestions on why to choose one over the other. Thanks.
Al Hays
Gore, VA
Do not archive
On Dec 25, 2008, at 8:19 AM, Gardiner Mason wrote:
> >
>
> Hey ya'll, how would winglets on the end of the flat board wing tips
> work? Just a thought what with all the discussion on this subject.
> Merry Christmas all. Cheers, Gardiner Mason
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Willis" <timothywillis@earthlink.net
> >
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 7:30 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: 1 Msgs - 12/24/08
Message 7
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The only place to get "authorized" Pietenpol plans are from the Pietenpol
family:
http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
There are blueprints in the Flying and Glider Manual reprints available from
EAA, but the drawings lack the detail, readability, and information you find
in the full-size plans. In addition, the plans for the Corvair/Continental
installation, extended length fuselage, and three piece wing are only
available from the family.
As an aside, the F&G Manuals are good to have anyways, as the text is
interesting.
Ryan
do not archive
I was intending to start a Piet about 19 years ago and bought a set of plans
> but "life interfered". The plans may not be the real McCoy and I may need
> to get a set of the recognized Pietenpol plans before trying again. There
> seems to be at least a couple sources for plans currently available and I
> suspect I'm not the only one who'd appreciate suggestions on why to choose
> one over the other. Thanks.
>
> Al Hays
> Gore, VA
>
> Do not archive
Message 8
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Gentlemen,
I think its time we form a consensus, and decide right now that if anybody shows
up at Brodhead with flat board wing tips, they?will not be allowed to call their
airplane a Pietenpol, at least while they are there. I'm all for minor personal
alterations, but this flat board wing tip idea is a little too much to
take. Will anybody join me?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 9
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Is that with or without winglets?
John
------Original Message------
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Dec 25, 2008 12:41 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing tips
Gentlemen,
I think its time we form a consensus, and decide right now that if anybody shows
up at Brodhead with flat board wing tips, theywill not be allowed to call their
airplane a Pietenpol, at least while they are there. I'm all for minor personal
alterations, but this flat board wing tip idea is a little too much to
take. Will anybody join me?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
----------------
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 10
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> My take on the wingtips: The centerline of the leading edge, the
> spars, and the trailing edge are not in the same plane (no pun
> intended!). In order to deal with that, I lofted the rib centerline
> and fashioned a tip with that arc/curve in it. Then, looking as
> what I had, I thought that when the fabric was tightened, it would
> look very peculiar, to say the least. So I fashioned curved pieces
> that carried the horizontal plane of the spar outward for about an
> inch and then arced down to the top of the tip. One such piece
> midway between the front spar and the leading edge, one on each of
> the two spars, two between the rear main spar and the trailing
> edge, and tone each over the rear wing spar and the front aileron
> spar. Same treatment top and bottom. I don't know what this will do
> to the flight characteristics, but it certainly looks good-at least
> to me. The whole job took a great deal of time getting the right
> curves cut. A belt sander was a big help. Merry Christmas to all,
> and back to work tomorrow, deo voto. Dick Carden
Message 11
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Not to be negative, but I won't join that effort. If someone flies
into Brodhead and says they did it in a Pietenpol, that's enough for
me. If it doesn't look like a Piet to me, I'll just keep drinking
Chief Oshkoshes until it does!! :)
>Gentlemen,
>
>I think its time we form a consensus, and decide right now that if
>anybody shows up at Brodhead with flat board wing tips, they will
>not be allowed to call their airplane a Pietenpol, at least while
>they are there. I'm all for minor personal alterations, but this
>flat board wing tip idea is a little too much to take. Will anybody
>join me?
Message 12
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| Subject: | back to flat board wingtips |
Yep, Alan Weise (sp?) flew his for years and years with cut-off tips and 1/
4" ply plates on the tips after a ground-loop "wrinkled" one of them. Piets
are great for that sort of non-critical engineering field fixes.
-
Don't get bogged down with the non-critical details, just build to the plan
s and GO FLY!!!
-
Larry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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Damn and I was thinking of putting on Horner tips and JETO rockets.You guys
spoil all the fun!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____________________
___________=0AFrom: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>=0ATo: pietenpol-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:36:04 PM=0ASubject: Re
Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>=0A=0ANot to be negative, but I won't join th
at effort. If someone flies =0Ainto Brodhead and says they did it in a Piet
enpol, that's enough for =0Ame. If it doesn't look like a Piet to me, I'll
just keep drinking =0AChief Oshkoshes until it does!!- :)=0A=0A>Gentlemen
,=0A>=0A>I think its time we form a consensus, and decide right now that if
=0A>anybody shows up at Brodhead with flat board wing tips, they will =0A>
not be allowed to call their airplane a Pietenpol, at least while =0A>they
are there. I'm all for minor personal alterations, but this =0A>flat board
wing tip idea is a little too much to take. Will anybody =0A>join me?=0A=0A
===
Message 14
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In the mid 60's I flew Allen Ruldolf's Piet, and Allen flew with me to Mr Pietenpol's
field for an introduction that I'll never forget. Over the next few years
I kept in close touch with Mr Pietenpol, asking many questions just as you
guys are doing with each other, as the List wasn't available. When I asked him
what his opinion was on the Installation of a Funk Engine, inverted, his answer,
I think that it should be an excellent engine for a " Pietenpol ". I said
that the thrust line would change about 4", Mr. Pietenpol waited a moment and
commented," It should work, just look at the Seabee , it also flies slow." All
of my 4 Piets were not close to to Allen Rudolf's Piet, but you know guys, I
have a bushel basket full of PIET HATS, so I must be fooling the Brodhead experts.
In one of the comments about the Pietenpol being born on the floor of a barn 80
years, I came to wonder " I also was concieved 80 years ago also, don't know
where, but I tell you guys it has been it has been a ride I'll never ever forget,
just ask me.
Pieti Lowell
[Laughing]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221109#221109
Message 15
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| Subject: | 612 and 613.5 Winglets |
I'm wondering if anyone knows if Mr. Buckolt is still selling the full size profiles
of the 612 and 613.5 airfoil? I have his snail-mail address. I also emailed
him through his website, but haven't heard back- thus the question. Wouldn't
want to call and disturb the man.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221149#221149
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 612 and 613.5 Winglets |
I still sell the Riblett Airfoils.
$10.00 each
Roman Bukolt
6505 Urich Terr.
Madison, Wi. 53719
On Dec 25, 2008, at 9:09 PM, LarryB55 wrote:
> >
>
> I'm wondering if anyone knows if Mr. Buckolt is still selling the
> full size profiles of the 612 and 613.5 airfoil? I have his snail-
> mail address. I also emailed him through his website, but haven't
> heard back- thus the question. Wouldn't want to call and disturb the
> man.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221149#221149
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Back to the flat board wing tips |
Hi Michael:
I'm rebuilding a 25yr old GN1 AirCamper which has many modifications to the
original plans, including a Pietenpol airfoil with flat wing tips and the
"boxed-in" aileron bay you are asking about. I'm currently rebuilding the
3-piece wing w/44" wide center section) using the Ribblet 612 airfoil.
Several recent pictures are attached showing the rebuild work on the flat
wing tip and "boxed-in" aileron bay. The ailerons are 7' long and distance
from the last rib to outer edge of the tip might be a few inches longer than
the original design. The original ailerons were about 13" wide. I've
narrowed the ailerons slightly to 11-1/2" to conform with the general layout
of the 612 rib design.
Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
Corvair Powered/GN1 AirCamper Rebuild Project
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 11:03 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> I am curious, anyone know for sure if these flat board-tipped Piets. used
> the standard size wing, or did they make them longer? Since the plans show
> the ailerons going past the last rib and out to the tip, did these flat
> board wings stop at the rib, making the wing a few inches shorter? If so, I
> wonder how this shorter aileron flew. Anyong flying this type of wing tip?
>
> *
>
>
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