Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:37 AM - Re: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
2. 04:13 AM - Re: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza (Gene & Tammy)
3. 05:11 AM - Pietenpol Anagram (Jonathan Ragle)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: New Piet project - one piece wing question (Michael Perez)
5. 06:47 AM - Re: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza (amsafetyc@aol.com)
6. 07:02 AM - Patches (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 07:26 AM - Re: New Piet project - one piece wing question (del magsam)
8. 08:09 AM - Re: New Piet project - one piece wing question (Ryan Mueller)
9. 08:24 AM - Re: Patches (amsafetyc@aol.com)
10. 10:04 AM - Re: Patches (bike.mike)
11. 10:09 AM - Re: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza (Rob Stapleton, Jr.)
12. 10:23 AM - Re: Patches (amsafetyc@aol.com)
13. 10:32 AM - Re:up too late tonight-Patches (Lawrence Williams)
14. 10:38 AM - Re: Patches (Robert Gow)
15. 10:55 AM - Re: Re:up too late tonight-Patches (amsafetyc@aol.com)
16. 12:35 PM - Re: Patches (Jim Markle)
17. 01:12 PM - Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns (Jeff Boatright)
18. 03:02 PM - Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns (Don Emch)
19. 03:11 PM - Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns (Gary Boothe)
20. 03:28 PM - Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns (Oscar Zuniga)
21. 03:31 PM - Re: Patches (amsafetyc@aol.com)
22. 04:04 PM - Re: Re:up too late tonight-Patches (H RULE)
23. 04:54 PM - Re: Patches (Patrick Panzera)
24. 05:04 PM - Re: Re:up too late tonight-Patches (Gary Boothe)
25. 06:07 PM - Re: Patches (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
26. 07:02 PM - Re: Patches (Patrick Panzera)
27. 07:44 PM - Re: Patches (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
28. 08:37 PM - Re: Patches (Tim Willis)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza |
To all Piet'ers:
This is an interesting story and we will provide more details later, but
thanks also need to go to the EAA Chapter in NM, and to FAA's Angie
Slingluff that asked me about a project on behalf of the school at an Alaska
Aviation Heritage Museum function less than a month ago. Also on the
atta-boy list is Carlile Transportation who will take the Aerial and
transport it from New Mexico to Anchorage at no cost to the middle school.
Harry MacDonald, the CEO of Carlile is a pilot, (originally from Fairbanks)
and also offered to have his shop welders help out with a new set of landing
gear once the airplane is in place and the school has started on the
project.
I am sure you will hear more about this in the future but again, thanks
Oscar!
Rob
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto@alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza
AMSafety wrote-
>You're quite the resource and Piet champion.
Corky made me this way ;o) Chuck Gantzer and Mike Cuy weren't any
help either, with their videos and nifty flying Pietenpols.
>congratulations on a job well done. Saved a Piet
I'm going to have to step off the stage and say that the thanks
should go to Jeff Scott, president of EAA Chapter 691 and longtime
friend. He is responsible for helping the original builder along,
caring for the project after her demise, arranging for disposition
of the project out of her estate, arranging for my acquisition of a
few things that I wanted off the airplane after I bought it from the
chapter and donated it to the Anchorage group, and it looks like he
will ultimately be responsible for crating it up for shipment and
seeing that it gets sent off in good shape. Jeff is good people; the
best. He's a builder's builder and does it because he loves to.
>Now for the more challenging the patch or patches. We should have
>one for the Piet and its creator and a special edition 80th year
>anniversary patch for Brodhead and Oshkosh.
I think it would be just as well to do one "patchapalooza" patch ;o)
Most companies have an artwork and/or setup fee and if we stick to
one patch, we'll maximize the bang for our buck. That's what Piet
building and flying is about... affordable and fun.
>it just seems fitting to celibate the aircraft
Well, I guess after 80 years, most of us are celibate whether we want
to be or not ;o) I'm only 57 but my dad-gone blood pressure medication
seems to be taking some of the compression out of my cylinders, if you
catch my drift ;o) But we can still fly and enjoy it, and that's more
fun than we deserve to have, sometimes. Yes, let's "celebrate" the
aircraft!
>It's a tremendous legacy that should be advertised rather than kept
>within the circles of just we few. Its just too important an aircraft
>to go unnoticed.
It's not that it's gone unnoticed, it's just that it's an old wood and
fabric open-cockpit airplane and there are fewer and fewer builders
who are interested in that. More and more of them want sleek, fast,
"glass panel" zoomers that resemble the cars that they drive. There
are fewer and fewer people who are willing to endure flying low and
slow over the countryside with the wind whipping in their faces, fuel
and exhaust smells drifting into the cockpit, airspeed crowding 70
MPH on a good day, sights and sounds coming directly to the pilot,
no digital radio or Ipod, no electrics, no starter, no nothing. So
we'll just have to enjoy one another's company while there are still
those among us who are interested in these old airplanes. And with
a history 80 years long now, I'll bet there will pretty much always
be a few like us who have that interest, that joy, that connection.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza |
Rob, you have so many irons in the fire I don't know how you get it all
done. A really great job you pulled off! I know it took a great amount of
work for the two of you. It just goes to show what an Alaskan and a Texan
can do.
Gene in Tennessee
Message 3
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| Subject: | Pietenpol Anagram |
Not sure how well Pietenpol flying and anagrams overlap=2C but here is one
that I came up with today at work. I like it. :)Pietenpol Aircamper = P
IREP: Acme Riot PlaneJonathando not archive
_________________________________________________________________
Life on your PC is safer=2C easier=2C and more enjoyable with Windows Vista
=AE.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet project - one piece wing question |
Ryan, I am sure a 3 piece wing is doable from the wing you have. You said r
ight in your question what needs to be done, I see no problems at all with
your thinking. Measure, mark, re-measure, check marks, cut, make jig from e
xisting rib, make new ribs, build center section...why not!- The fact tha
t is sounds like a "bare" wing, (no tips, compression struts, fittings) it
actually makes the 3 piece make over easier. I say you are a GO for launch.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza |
This has evolved into quite the undertaking. The story with photographs should
be put together and submitted to the EAA for publication.
I think it shows the spirit, dedication and commitment to a project as embodied
in the experimental aircraft home builder.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." <foto@alaska.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza
To all Piet'ers:
This is an interesting story and we will provide more details later, but
thanks also need to go to the EAA Chapter in NM, and to FAA's Angie
Slingluff that asked me about a project on behalf of the school at an Alaska
Aviation Heritage Museum function less than a month ago. Also on the
atta-boy list is Carlile Transportation who will take the Aerial and
transport it from New Mexico to Anchorage at no cost to the middle school.
Harry MacDonald, the CEO of Carlile is a pilot, (originally from Fairbanks)
and also offered to have his shop welders help out with a new set of landing
gear once the airplane is in place and the school has started on the
project.
I am sure you will hear more about this in the future but again, thanks
Oscar!
Rob
Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist
Anchorage, Alaska
907-230-9425
KL2AN
Skype:rob.stapleton.jr
IM Windows Live Messenger: foto@alaska.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza
AMSafety wrote-
>You're quite the resource and Piet champion.
Corky made me this way ;o) Chuck Gantzer and Mike Cuy weren't any
help either, with their videos and nifty flying Pietenpols.
>congratulations on a job well done. Saved a Piet
I'm going to have to step off the stage and say that the thanks
should go to Jeff Scott, president of EAA Chapter 691 and longtime
friend. He is responsible for helping the original builder along,
caring for the project after her demise, arranging for disposition
of the project out of her estate, arranging for my acquisition of a
few things that I wanted off the airplane after I bought it from the
chapter and donated it to the Anchorage group, and it looks like he
will ultimately be responsible for crating it up for shipment and
seeing that it gets sent off in good shape. Jeff is good people; the
best. He's a builder's builder and does it because he loves to.
>Now for the more challenging the patch or patches. We should have
>one for the Piet and its creator and a special edition 80th year
>anniversary patch for Brodhead and Oshkosh.
I think it would be just as well to do one "patchapalooza" patch ;o)
Most companies have an artwork and/or setup fee and if we stick to
one patch, we'll maximize the bang for our buck. That's what Piet
building and flying is about... affordable and fun.
>it just seems fitting to celibate the aircraft
Well, I guess after 80 years, most of us are celibate whether we want
to be or not ;o) I'm only 57 but my dad-gone blood pressure medication
seems to be taking some of the compression out of my cylinders, if you
catch my drift ;o) But we can still fly and enjoy it, and that's more
fun than we deserve to have, sometimes. Yes, let's "celebrate" the
aircraft!
>It's a tremendous legacy that should be advertised rather than kept
>within the circles of just we few. Its just too important an aircraft
>to go unnoticed.
It's not that it's gone unnoticed, it's just that it's an old wood and
fabric open-cockpit airplane and there are fewer and fewer builders
who are interested in that. More and more of them want sleek, fast,
"glass panel" zoomers that resemble the cars that they drive. There
are fewer and fewer people who are willing to endure flying low and
slow over the countryside with the wind whipping in their faces, fuel
and exhaust smells drifting into the cockpit, airspeed crowding 70
MPH on a good day, sights and sounds coming directly to the pilot,
no digital radio or Ipod, no electrics, no starter, no nothing. So
we'll just have to enjoy one another's company while there are still
those among us who are interested in these old airplanes. And with
a history 80 years long now, I'll bet there will pretty much always
be a few like us who have that interest, that joy, that connection.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if anyone
is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to be
unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before anyone
goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here on
the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet project - one piece wing question |
Hi Ryan
Our trip to Iowa came to a sudden halt when we listened to the ice warnings
over there, we went directly home. I liked the lightness and simplicity of
the one piece wing. I can see the difficulty that it is in that barn thoug
h unless you go directly up from where it is sitting on pullies. I do have
two more ribs hanging on the wall that I forgot about. I can send them to y
ou. I never planned on a fuel tank in the wing. It makes me shudder to have
fuel right above me. As proven in William Wynns accident where he got dren
ched in fuel and would have been ok, except-that he was burned. The heade
r tank will give you 2 hrs of flight time and less fuel lines, fittings, we
ight, build time etc. These are just my 2 cents and reasonings, don't let m
e talk you into anything else other than what you want :>). I'll be followi
ng your progress with interest!
Del
Del-New Richmond, Wi
"farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
--- On Mon, 12/29/08, Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Piet project - one piece wing question
First off, congratulations on your efforts with the Aerial project Oscar!
Jess and I are now proud owners of most of a one piece wing, a fuselage, a
horizontal stab, and most of the metal fittings (Del Magsam's old project)!
We are very excited. I took a few pics, but my digicam memory card decided
to stop playing ball, so I'll take more the next time we are out. Stupid t
hing...it's only dealt with every temperature extreme and weather situation
out there for four years, plus a little combat here and there....they just
don't make them like they used to.
Anyhow, the one piece wing is not what we we were planning on building, but
it is what the project came with. We decided we would deal with it; in the
end it will get us in the air faster. We spent some quality time with it o
n Saturday (most of the day), trying to manhandle it into it's new home in
a friend's small outbuilding/aircraft factory. All I can say is....wow...my
hat's off to Bernard and all those who followed that built and dealt with
the one piece wing. It defeated all of our plans to loft it that day, so it
is sitting on supports on the ground level (not literally on the ground) f
or now. After having to deal with this monstrosity, I figured I would pose
the question: would it be feasible to convert this to a three piece wing? H
ere are some details about the wing:
It has Charlie Rubeck ribs that were varnished before being slipped onto th
e spars. Thusly they are not glued to the spars. There is just a nail throu
gh the uprights adjacent to the spars holding them in place right now. The
wing does not have any compression struts installed, no metal fittings eith
er. It is just two spars with the ribs on, and the additional pieces for th
e ailerons have been installed. No wingtips. None of the structure for the
fuel tank in the wing has been installed either.
I would think it would go as such: cut the spars just outboard of each spli
ce. Measure the spar length from the wingtip end of the spar to the inboard
end of the panel, and cut the spars to the exact length needed. We could r
emove the nails and slide the center section rib(s) off the remnants. We wo
uld be short on ribs...one full rib, one nose rib, two tail ribs. It would
be pretty easy to make a jig off of a full rib that was removed, to fab the
those pieces. We would have to build the center section, but our wing pane
ls would be mostly complete. Since the ribs are only nailed they could all
be moved to satisfy any spacing changes.
This would add some work, but would allow us to deal with much smaller indi
vidual wing panels instead of the whole shebang.- This is a big plus. We
would also be able to accommodate a fuel tank in the wing if we could do th
e three piece....
Am I off my rocker?
Ryan
=0A=0A=0A
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: New Piet project - one piece wing question |
Del,
We're sorry to hear that you weren't able to make it the rest of the way to
Iowa. We very much appreciate the fact that you navigated all the way down
to us in the rain and the fog.
I had originally planned to go with the fuel tank in the wing, and a three
foot center section. This would increase the capacity a little over the
plans fuel tank. To me the advantage of the fuel tank in the wing is that it
does not affect the CG at all when fuel burns off, and it leaves the area
directly behind the firewall open for the ignition coils, battery, etc. I
could be wrong on this, but I believe William attributed the fuel spillage
in his accident to the rupture of the rigid fuel lines going from the wing,
down the cabanes struts, and on to the engine. I don't think his fuel tank
ruptured. He recommends using flexible braided lines secured with zip ties
to the cabanes, so that if the wing shifts in an accident the lines can rip
themselves free and move about however they would like, instead of
rupturing.
The one piece wing is definitely simple and light, but it sure is a bear to
deal with. Lofting it straight up is one idea we considered, but the pitch
of the roof by the door we brought it in through wouldn't allow it to go up
very far. If we had more room it wouldn't be an issue, but I think
converting it to the three piece would help us out quite a bit. We could
store one panel in the loft area while we work on the other, and one panel
on the lower level would be far easier to wrangle.
I most definitely appreciate your input. We haven't cut anything yet; I'm
just trying to figure out the best way to proceed. I would definitely like
to get those two additional ribs from you, and the fuel tank if you happen
to run across it. I've got to get to work.....thank you again for driving
the Piet down to us. Have a good day!
Ryan
do not archive
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:25 AM, del magsam <farmerdel@rocketmail.com>wrote:
> Hi Ryan
> Our trip to Iowa came to a sudden halt when we listened to the ice warnings
> over there, we went directly home. I liked the lightness and simplicity of
> the one piece wing. I can see the difficulty that it is in that barn though
> unless you go directly up from where it is sitting on pullies. I do have two
> more ribs hanging on the wall that I forgot about. I can send them to you. I
> never planned on a fuel tank in the wing. It makes me shudder to have fuel
> right above me. As proven in William Wynns accident where he got drenched in
> fuel and would have been ok, except that he was burned. The header tank will
> give you 2 hrs of flight time and less fuel lines, fittings, weight, build
> time etc. These are just my 2 cents and reasonings, don't let me talk you
> into anything else other than what you want :>). I'll be following your
> progress with interest!
> Del
>
> Del-New Richmond, Wi
> "farmerdel@rocketmail.com"
>
Message 9
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Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can only be
protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both would to
have existed before the work was released into the public domain and should be
appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would doubt the intellectual
artistic property is protected.
The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach and tell
him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition.
Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same sentiment with
the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his ear. I am not
one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with great ambitions and
arrogance.
Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent attitude by
many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to.
Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza.
John
------Original Message------
From: Oscar Zuniga
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches
I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if anyone
is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to be
unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before anyone
goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here on
the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 10
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Being a lawyer, I guess I have to respond.
A copyright, in the US where this discussion is taking place, exists
automatically upon the creation of any work. As soon as an artist writes,
composes, sculpts, draws, paints or otherwise puts an idea into tangible
form, the tangible work belongs to the artist and it cannot be copied
without permission. Even though the tangible form is sold, the copyright is
retained by the originator. A copyright registration with the Library of
Congress primarily provides a way of notifying the world of the creation of
the copyrighted work.
Some copyrightable works can also be registered as trademarks. A trademark
is protected by usage in commerce. The first user of a trademark has the
rights to it in a particular "market area." Registration of a trademark
with the US Patent and Trademark Office prevents others from using it
outside the market area.
What a copyright does is prevent others from using a work in its whole or
substantial part without the permission of the owner. Modifying a work,
such as in musical parodies, is also prevented without permission. Claiming
the work as an original composition of one's own is never permitted.
Quoting a work, with proper attribution, is generally allowed under the
"fair use" doctrine.
The works of Grant McLaren will remain copyrighted for a good number of
years after his death. The exact number will depending on the date of
creation and the specific "Copyright Protection Act" in force at the time.
As I am also a human being in love with Pietenpol airplanes and their
history, I would never tell anyone who has contributed as much as Grant
McLaren to stick anything in his ear.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: <amsafetyc@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
> Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can
only be protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both
would to have existed before the work was released into the public domain
and should be appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would
doubt the intellectual artistic property is protected.
>
> The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach
and tell him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition.
>
> Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same
sentiment with the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his
ear. I am not one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with
great ambitions and arrogance.
>
> Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent
attitude by many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to.
>
> Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza.
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol List
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>
> I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if
anyone
> is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to
be
> unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before
anyone
> goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
>
> I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here
on
> the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza |
Hey thanks!
Well I am not sure that anything is really getting done--but we are sure
having some fun putting this together. Really this Aerial project sort of
fell together--Angie asked me, I asked the list and Oscar made the
connection--we need to thank the list for being here too! Alaskans and
Texans have always been able to make things happen. Look at the 800 mile
Trans Alaska Pipeline for example!
Thanks for noticing.
Regards,
Rob
Anchorage, AK
-7F this morning!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 3:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches, Anchorage, and the buildapalooza
Rob, you have so many irons in the fire I don't know how you get it all
done. A really great job you pulled off! I know it took a great amount of
work for the two of you. It just goes to show what an Alaskan and a Texan
can do.
Gene in Tennessee
Message 12
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Mike
Thanks for your legal perspective on such a complex issue.
And certainly and added benefit is your humanitarian perspective to things
Not knowing him or his contributions I have no knowledge of what has spoiled the
relationship so its difficult for me to appreciate his prevailing attitude of
non cooperation.
As far as that goes what's his shall remain his
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
Being a lawyer, I guess I have to respond.
A copyright, in the US where this discussion is taking place, exists
automatically upon the creation of any work. As soon as an artist writes,
composes, sculpts, draws, paints or otherwise puts an idea into tangible
form, the tangible work belongs to the artist and it cannot be copied
without permission. Even though the tangible form is sold, the copyright is
retained by the originator. A copyright registration with the Library of
Congress primarily provides a way of notifying the world of the creation of
the copyrighted work.
Some copyrightable works can also be registered as trademarks. A trademark
is protected by usage in commerce. The first user of a trademark has the
rights to it in a particular "market area." Registration of a trademark
with the US Patent and Trademark Office prevents others from using it
outside the market area.
What a copyright does is prevent others from using a work in its whole or
substantial part without the permission of the owner. Modifying a work,
such as in musical parodies, is also prevented without permission. Claiming
the work as an original composition of one's own is never permitted.
Quoting a work, with proper attribution, is generally allowed under the
"fair use" doctrine.
The works of Grant McLaren will remain copyrighted for a good number of
years after his death. The exact number will depending on the date of
creation and the specific "Copyright Protection Act" in force at the time.
As I am also a human being in love with Pietenpol airplanes and their
history, I would never tell anyone who has contributed as much as Grant
McLaren to stick anything in his ear.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: <amsafetyc@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
> Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can
only be protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both
would to have existed before the work was released into the public domain
and should be appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would
doubt the intellectual artistic property is protected.
>
> The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach
and tell him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition.
>
> Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same
sentiment with the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his
ear. I am not one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with
great ambitions and arrogance.
>
> Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent
attitude by many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to.
>
> Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza.
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol List
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>
> I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if
anyone
> is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to
be
> unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before
anyone
> goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
>
> I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here
on
> the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | re:up too late tonight-Patches |
What will be the criteria for who gets/wears a Pietenpol patch?
-
Our newsletter editor and a number of listers seem to hold the view that th
ere is no such thing as a Pietenpol Air Camper. I think the P.C. designatio
n currently in use is "Snowflake" which should open up an entirely new logo
for our patch.
-
Another interesting question comes up when considering the annual "Pietenpo
l" reunion at Brodhead and, since there are no Pietenpol Air Campers, can t
here really be any legitimate representative aircraft on the line at OSH?
-
Where's Chris Egsgaard when he's needed?
-
Larry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp
-=0A=0A=0A
Message 14
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So,
If you submit a short story or other prose to a contest where the entry
rules include a statement that "all entries remain the property of <contest
name>", this means only the hard copy you sent them, not the rights to the
story?
Do not Archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of bike.mike
Sent: December 27, 2008 11:03 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
Being a lawyer, I guess I have to respond.
A copyright, in the US where this discussion is taking place, exists
automatically upon the creation of any work. As soon as an artist writes,
composes, sculpts, draws, paints or otherwise puts an idea into tangible
form, the tangible work belongs to the artist and it cannot be copied
without permission. Even though the tangible form is sold, the copyright is
retained by the originator. A copyright registration with the Library of
Congress primarily provides a way of notifying the world of the creation of
the copyrighted work.
Some copyrightable works can also be registered as trademarks. A trademark
is protected by usage in commerce. The first user of a trademark has the
rights to it in a particular "market area." Registration of a trademark
with the US Patent and Trademark Office prevents others from using it
outside the market area.
What a copyright does is prevent others from using a work in its whole or
substantial part without the permission of the owner. Modifying a work,
such as in musical parodies, is also prevented without permission. Claiming
the work as an original composition of one's own is never permitted.
Quoting a work, with proper attribution, is generally allowed under the
"fair use" doctrine.
The works of Grant McLaren will remain copyrighted for a good number of
years after his death. The exact number will depending on the date of
creation and the specific "Copyright Protection Act" in force at the time.
As I am also a human being in love with Pietenpol airplanes and their
history, I would never tell anyone who has contributed as much as Grant
McLaren to stick anything in his ear.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: <amsafetyc@aol.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
> Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can
only be protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both
would to have existed before the work was released into the public domain
and should be appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would
doubt the intellectual artistic property is protected.
>
> The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach
and tell him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition.
>
> Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same
sentiment with the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his
ear. I am not one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with
great ambitions and arrogance.
>
> Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent
attitude by many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to.
>
> Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza.
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Oscar Zuniga
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol List
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>
> I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if
anyone
> is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to
be
> unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before
anyone
> goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
>
> I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here
on
> the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: re:up too late tonight-Patches |
SSBzdXNwZWN0IGlmIHdlIHJlYWxseSBuZWVkIHRvIGhhdmUgYSBjcml0ZXJpYSBpdCBjb3VsZCBi
ZSBzZXQgdXAgb24gdGhlIHBhdGNoIHRvIGlkZW50aWZ5IG93bmVycyBidWlsZGVycyBhbmQgZW50
aHVzaWFzdC4gRnJhbmtseSBhbnlvbmUgaW50ZXJlc3RlZCBlbm91Z2ggdG8gcGF5IGFuZCB3ZWFy
IHRoZSBwYXRjaCBzaG91bGQgYmUgd2VsY29tZSB0byBkbyBzbw0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20g
bXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0t
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YXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IHJlOnVwIHRvbyBsYXRlIHRv
bmlnaHQtUGF0Y2hlcw0KDQoNCldoYXQgd2lsbCBiZSB0aGUgY3JpdGVyaWEgZm9yIHdobyBnZXRz
L3dlYXJzIGEgUGlldGVucG9sIHBhdGNoPyANCqANCk91ciBuZXdzbGV0dGVyIGVkaXRvciBhbmQg
YSBudW1iZXIgb2YgbGlzdGVycyBzZWVtIHRvIGhvbGQgdGhlIHZpZXcgdGhhdCB0aGVyZSBpcyBu
byBzdWNoIHRoaW5nIGFzIGEgUGlldGVucG9sIEFpciBDYW1wZXIuIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhlIFAuQy4g
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b3BlbiB1cCBhbiBlbnRpcmVseSBuZXcgbG9nbyBmb3Igb3VyIHBhdGNoLg0KoA0KQW5vdGhlciBp
bnRlcmVzdGluZyBxdWVzdGlvbiBjb21lcyB1cCB3aGVuIGNvbnNpZGVyaW5nIHRoZSBhbm51YWwg
IlBpZXRlbnBvbCIgcmV1bmlvbiBhdCBCcm9kaGVhZCBhbmQsIHNpbmNlIHRoZXJlIGFyZSBubyBQ
aWV0ZW5wb2wgQWlyIENhbXBlcnMsIGNhbiB0aGVyZSByZWFsbHkgYmUgYW55IGxlZ2l0aW1hdGUg
cmVwcmVzZW50YXRpdmUgYWlyY3JhZnQgb24gdGhlIGxpbmUgYXQgT1NIPw0KoA0KV2hlcmUncyBD
aHJpcyBFZ3NnYWFyZCB3aGVuIGhlJ3MgbmVlZGVkPw0KoA0KTGFycnkgV2lsbGlhbXOgIHhjZywg
eGNtciwgZXBwDQqgDQoNCg0KICAgICAgDQoNCg=
Message 16
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According to the folks I spoke with at the EAA, Grant did not get written
permission to use images from the Flying and Glider Manuals in the Pietenpol
video(s) he created. So maybe these patches could include images (there are
some really good ones!) from those publications (NOT his publications)...
Getting written permission is likely still a good idea, whether it's an
image from the Flying and Glider manuals or something Grant or anyone else
(regardless of author) has printed or reprinted....sure would be a shame to
have to deal with issues such as copyright infringement when you could be
making sawdust....
And I definitely agree, a LOT of hard work on Grant's part filled the
newsletters I still enjoy reading!
-----Original Message-----
>From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@comcast.net>
>Sent: Dec 27, 2008 11:02 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>Being a lawyer, I guess I have to respond.
>
>A copyright, in the US where this discussion is taking place, exists
>automatically upon the creation of any work. As soon as an artist writes,
>composes, sculpts, draws, paints or otherwise puts an idea into tangible
>form, the tangible work belongs to the artist and it cannot be copied
>without permission. Even though the tangible form is sold, the copyright is
>retained by the originator. A copyright registration with the Library of
>Congress primarily provides a way of notifying the world of the creation of
>the copyrighted work.
>
>Some copyrightable works can also be registered as trademarks. A trademark
>is protected by usage in commerce. The first user of a trademark has the
>rights to it in a particular "market area." Registration of a trademark
>with the US Patent and Trademark Office prevents others from using it
>outside the market area.
>
>What a copyright does is prevent others from using a work in its whole or
>substantial part without the permission of the owner. Modifying a work,
>such as in musical parodies, is also prevented without permission. Claiming
>the work as an original composition of one's own is never permitted.
>Quoting a work, with proper attribution, is generally allowed under the
>"fair use" doctrine.
>
>The works of Grant McLaren will remain copyrighted for a good number of
>years after his death. The exact number will depending on the date of
>creation and the specific "Copyright Protection Act" in force at the time.
>
>As I am also a human being in love with Pietenpol airplanes and their
>history, I would never tell anyone who has contributed as much as Grant
>McLaren to stick anything in his ear.
>
>
>Mike Hardaway
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <amsafetyc@aol.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>>
>> Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can
>only be protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both
>would to have existed before the work was released into the public domain
>and should be appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would
>doubt the intellectual artistic property is protected.
>>
>> The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach
>and tell him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition.
>>
>> Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same
>sentiment with the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his
>ear. I am not one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with
>great ambitions and arrogance.
>>
>> Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent
>attitude by many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to.
>>
>> Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza.
>>
>> John
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Oscar Zuniga
>> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> To: Pietenpol List
>> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if
>anyone
>> is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to
>be
>> unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before
>anyone
>> goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
>>
>> I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here
>on
>> the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns |
Dear Pieters,
Today my instructor and I managed to damage the Piet while still in
its chocks; we bent the upper horn of the left elevator bell crank. I
need your advice on repairs.
How it happened: I was sitting in the cockpit. The tail was resting
on a sawhorse. The instructor removed the sawhorse to lower the tail.
The sawhorse wasn't placed far enough away and it caught the lower
elevator cable. The tail was lowered all the way to ground without
this being noticed. The upper horn bent over about 45 degrees towards
the centerline (towards the rudder). We bent the horn back, and of
course the horn now looks like an hourglass when viewed from fore or
aft. Oddly, the lower cable has a little more slack than before;
definitely more than the lower elevator cable on the other side.
There does not appear to be any damage at all to the large, bell
crank in the fuselage (behind the pilot's seat) at the other end of
the cable.
Note that the bell crank appears to be built to plans.
The concerns:
1. Why is the cable slack even when the horn was bent back to
vertical? I guess the cable could have stretched, but this is an
eighth inch cable and I weigh 180. Doesn't seem like there would be
that much tension.
2. Removing and replacing the bell crank will take a lot of effort
and I want to go flying. Now. Could stiffeners be riveted to the horn
instead? How much strength has been lost due to the bend-unbend
cycle, and how much strength is needed here?
3. If it must be removed and replaced/rebuilt, what procedure would
require the least number of steps to accomplish this, with minimal
further damage?
Thanks for any advice on this. I am seriously bummed as I planned to
fly all this week!
Jeff
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control |
horns
Jeff,
It's possible that thimble on the lower horn collapsed some , but it really doesn't
seem that likely. The geometry might have changed some with the bend. I
guess the repair would depend on what you can do there and what equipment you
have. Really the best thing to do would be to cut a small opening in the fabric,
probably just the bottom of the elevator, remove the horn and replace with
an exact copy. It's probably very possible to weld a "scab" onto each side
of the horn. It could probably be done to the point of being just as structurally
sound or even better than it was, and probably not noticeable. It would
be really nice though to be able to open that fabric up, not just to remove the
horn but to also inspect the wood to make sure there are no cracks. It really
is something that could be accomplished in one looong day or an evening and
the next day, if you have torches and the fabric and dope available. To do a
fabric patch right there would not be bad and really could be done in the span
of one day.
What a bummer though! I really feel for you! But on the bright side, you'd be
surprised how good you get at making repairs after stuff like this.
Good Luck!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221706#221706
Message 19
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| Subject: | Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control |
horns
Jeff,
This is not advice.just my opinion: If I were in your shoes, I would make a
stiffener out of 12 or 14 ga 4130. It would be shaped like the horn, from
top to bottom. I would be able to prime it and paint it, then slip it thru
the fabric and bolt it, top and bottom, with about 3 bolts on each side. All
this would be done if I felt assured that the wood was OK.
The real bummer may be with your instructor. It must be hard enough to find
someone to go up in your plane, now he's feeling extra guilty.
Good luck & keep us posted with what YOU decide to do.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)
(12 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control
horns
Dear Pieters,
Today my instructor and I managed to damage the Piet while still in its
chocks; we bent the upper horn of the left elevator bell crank. I need your
advice on repairs.
How it happened: I was sitting in the cockpit. The tail was resting on a
sawhorse. The instructor removed the sawhorse to lower the tail. The
sawhorse wasn't placed far enough away and it caught the lower elevator
cable. The tail was lowered all the way to ground without this being
noticed. The upper horn bent over about 45 degrees towards the centerline
(towards the rudder). We bent the horn back, and of course the horn now
looks like an hourglass when viewed from fore or aft. Oddly, the lower cable
has a little more slack than before; definitely more than the lower elevator
cable on the other side. There does not appear to be any damage at all to
the large, bell crank in the fuselage (behind the pilot's seat) at the other
end of the cable.
Note that the bell crank appears to be built to plans.
The concerns:
1. Why is the cable slack even when the horn was bent back to vertical? I
guess the cable could have stretched, but this is an eighth inch cable and I
weigh 180. Doesn't seem like there would be that much tension.
2. Removing and replacing the bell crank will take a lot of effort and I
want to go flying. Now. Could stiffeners be riveted to the horn instead? How
much strength has been lost due to the bend-unbend cycle, and how much
strength is needed here?
3. If it must be removed and replaced/rebuilt, what procedure would require
the least number of steps to accomplish this, with minimal further damage?
Thanks for any advice on this. I am seriously bummed as I planned to fly all
this week!
Jeff
Message 20
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| Subject: | Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control horns |
Jeff;
I'll tell you what I did when I bent a rudder horn, but you won't like what I tell you: open it up, remove the horn, fix it, and put it back. Here's how I did my horn: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/rudder.html
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 21
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I think anything we use should be with permission,license or not at all. I am not
an advocate of nor do I believe in stealing someones work.
Although the image on the book I purchased from the pietenpol family and the drawings
in my packet bare a striking resemblance to the image in Grants rendition,
I wonder where he got it from? If he created the Pietenpol image he must
be the creator of the aircraft. If not then he used Bernards image from the drawings,
I wonder if he got permission or do we need to go to the owners of the
prints even though Bernard has since passed away?
The legal issues bring interesting questions for debate as to who owns the Pietenpoll
image?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
According to the folks I spoke with at the EAA, Grant did not get written
permission to use images from the Flying and Glider Manuals in the Pietenpol
video(s) he created. So maybe these patches could include images (there are
some really good ones!) from those publications (NOT his publications)...
Getting written permission is likely still a good idea, whether it's an
image from the Flying and Glider manuals or something Grant or anyone else
(regardless of author) has printed or reprinted....sure would be a shame to
have to deal with issues such as copyright infringement when you could be
making sawdust....
And I definitely agree, a LOT of hard work on Grant's part filled the
newsletters I still enjoy reading!
-----Original Message-----
>From: "bike.mike" <bike.mike@comcast.net>
>Sent: Dec 27, 2008 11:02 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>Being a lawyer, I guess I have to respond.
>
>A copyright, in the US where this discussion is taking place, exists
>automatically upon the creation of any work. As soon as an artist writes,
>composes, sculpts, draws, paints or otherwise puts an idea into tangible
>form, the tangible work belongs to the artist and it cannot be copied
>without permission. Even though the tangible form is sold, the copyright is
>retained by the originator. A copyright registration with the Library of
>Congress primarily provides a way of notifying the world of the creation of
>the copyrighted work.
>
>Some copyrightable works can also be registered as trademarks. A trademark
>is protected by usage in commerce. The first user of a trademark has the
>rights to it in a particular "market area." Registration of a trademark
>with the US Patent and Trademark Office prevents others from using it
>outside the market area.
>
>What a copyright does is prevent others from using a work in its whole or
>substantial part without the permission of the owner. Modifying a work,
>such as in musical parodies, is also prevented without permission. Claiming
>the work as an original composition of one's own is never permitted.
>Quoting a work, with proper attribution, is generally allowed under the
>"fair use" doctrine.
>
>The works of Grant McLaren will remain copyrighted for a good number of
>years after his death. The exact number will depending on the date of
>creation and the specific "Copyright Protection Act" in force at the time.
>
>As I am also a human being in love with Pietenpol airplanes and their
>history, I would never tell anyone who has contributed as much as Grant
>McLaren to stick anything in his ear.
>
>
>Mike Hardaway
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <amsafetyc@aol.com>
>To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 8:24 AM
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>
>>
>> Not being a lawyer myself it is my understanding that it, the work, can
>only be protected by copyright or as a registered trade mark. Either or both
>would to have existed before the work was released into the public domain
>and should be appropriately marked as such. That being the case I would
>doubt the intellectual artistic property is protected.
>>
>> The fact remains if he's uncooperative we can certainly take my approach
>and tell him to stick it in his ear and create our own classic rendition.
>>
>> Aside from all the other reasons to build, I have shared that same
>sentiment with the local FBO. Who in my opinion can stick his rentals in his
>ear. I am not one to be limited by the ideas and whims of little men with
>great ambitions and arrogance.
>>
>> Yes I know, and have been cautioned in the past about my independent
>attitude by many close to me, so go ahead and flame away if you need to.
>>
>> Meanwhile I am gonna go back to buildapalooza.
>>
>> John
>> ------Original Message------
>> From: Oscar Zuniga
>> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> To: Pietenpol List
>> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:00 AM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll mention this once again... Grant McLaren has to give permission if
>anyone
>> is planning to use his graphic artwork (the red/brown logo). He seems to
>be
>> unwilling to approve the use of any of his work from the past so before
>anyone
>> goes too far with that artwork, we need to get approval.
>>
>> I have no way of contacting Grant and will leave that to someone else here
>on
>> the list who might be able to get in touch with him.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: re:up too late tonight-Patches |
Grega GN-1 Aircamper ;please.Calling us a Pietenpol Aircamper is like calli
ng an F16 an F18.GN-1 Aircampers are more like X15's;able to reach the edge
of space and all that stuff.Fly at incredible speeds-etc.-=0A=0A=0Ado
not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Lawrence
Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>=0ATo: Pietlist <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
=0ASent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31:53 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: re
:up too late tonight-Patches=0A=0A=0AWhat will be the criteria for who gets
/wears a Pietenpol patch? =0A=0AOur newsletter editor and a number of liste
rs seem to hold the view that there is no such thing as a Pietenpol Air Cam
per. I think the P.C. designation currently in use is "Snowflake" which sho
uld open up an entirely new logo for our patch.=0A=0AAnother interesting qu
estion comes up when considering the annual "Pietenpol" reunion at Brodhead
and, since there are no Pietenpol Air Campers, can there really be any leg
itimate representative aircraft on the line at OSH?=0A=0AWhere's Chris Egsg
aard when he's needed?=0A=0ALarry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A =0A=0A=0A
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
3D=3D=3D=3D=0A
Message 23
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How about a NEW design contest?
I'm sure there are multiple artists on this list.
I'll kick in a one year subscription to CONTACT! Magazine as one of the
prizes.
Images can be uploaded into the photo section and a poll can be created.
Pat
>
> I think anything we use should be with permission,license or not at all. I
> am not an advocate of nor do I believe in stealing someones work.
Message 24
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| Subject: | re:up too late tonight-Patches |
Yeah.if they have a Corvair up front!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!)
(12 ribs down.)
Do not Archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of H RULE
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: re:up too late tonight-Patches
Grega GN-1 Aircamper ;please.Calling us a Pietenpol Aircamper is like
calling an F16 an F18.GN-1 Aircampers are more like X15's;able to reach the
edge of space and all that stuff.Fly at incredible speeds etc.
do not archive
_____
From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2008 1:31:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: re:up too late tonight-Patches
What will be the criteria for who gets/wears a Pietenpol patch?
Our newsletter editor and a number of listers seem to hold the view that
there is no such thing as a Pietenpol Air Camper. I think the P.C.
designation currently in use is "Snowflake" which should open up an entirely
new logo for our patch.
Another interesting question comes up when considering the annual
"Pietenpol" reunion at Brodhead and, since there are no Pietenpol Air
Campers, can there really be any legitimate representative aircraft on the
line at OSH?
Where's Chris Egsgaard when he's needed?
Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp
Message 25
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Pat,
Capital idea, I agree something new and selected as a contest, great idea as
long as it comes with the appropriate release for use and publication.
Having no artistic talent and no background in the practice of law I have
little more to offer or contribute than commentary and support.
This like many other things is completely out of my league, but highly
encouraging for those with any artistic talent.
I suppose there should be a theme that uses the Piet as its central idea and
then the creative artistic juices of the artist to run wild with he concept.
It all sounds like great fun with a spectacular patch as the end result.
Pat sounds like a great idea and a nice prize too anyone want to add to the
prize purse with goods and or services?
John
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 26
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Pat,
Capital idea, I agree something new and selected as a contest, great idea as
long as it comes with the appropriate release for use and publication.
Having no artistic talent and no background in the practice of law I have
little more to offer or contribute than commentary and support.
This like many other things is completely out of my league, but highly
encouraging for those with any artistic talent.
I suppose there should be a theme that uses the Piet as its central idea and
then the creative artistic juices of the artist to run wild with he concept.
I would guess that a computer rendering of an all-composite Piet with a
small turbine would be out of the question?
Kinda like when the EAA changed its logo to a jet?
Pat
Message 27
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I see no reason to restrict the entries, we are talking about Bernard
Pietenpol's creation, a visionary with an eye to the future and limited by only
the
resources available.at the time.
Like Wilbur and Orville who had no iea of the future everything is possible,
even manned space flight, no reason to keep NASA out of the graphic.
Just tossing some thoughts around is all.
We are only limited by the expanse of our imagination and our willingness to
experiment
I doubt we could do justice to the creator and the creation if we didn't
show the past with an eye to the future.The sky's the limit, the heavens are the
limit, space is the limit... space to our knowledge is limitless
John
**************One site keeps you connected to all your email: AOL Mail,
Gmail, and Yahoo Mail. Try it now.
Message 28
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In this case, possibly like space, my knowledge is curving back on itself.
I just emailed Grant MacLaren to ask about some logos. If I get a reply, I will
attach the two samples I posted here and see if he recognizes and/or claims
them, and his views on their use. As others have stated, we will not use others'
designs without their permission.
BTW, Mr. MacLaren certainly has an interesting website and seems to have an interesting
life. I'd like to know him. Apparently we lived less than 20 miles apart
in Missouri for many years, which I just discovered.
I want to use one of those logos on the sides of my Piet, but do not want to stifle
any artistic creativity or anyone's desire to create a patch, why, out of
whole cloth, if needed. An 80th anniversary decal is a slightly different thought,
too.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
>Sent: Dec 29, 2008 10:43 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patches
>
>I see no reason to restrict the entries, we are talking about Bernard
>Pietenpol's creation, a visionary with an eye to the future and limited by only
the
>resources available.at the time.
>
>Like Wilbur and Orville who had no iea of the future everything is possible,
>even manned space flight, no reason to keep NASA out of the graphic.
>
>Just tossing some thoughts around is all.
>
>We are only limited by the expanse of our imagination and our willingness to
>experiment
>
>I doubt we could do justice to the creator and the creation if we didn't
>show the past with an eye to the future.The sky's the limit, the heavens are the
>limit, space is the limit... space to our knowledge is limitless.
>
>John
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