---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 12/31/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:39 AM - Made a mistake (carson) 2. 01:51 AM - Re: Made a mistake (Peter W Johnson) 3. 02:20 AM - Re: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control (Gene & Tammy) 4. 03:22 AM - Re: Made a mistake (Jack Phillips) 5. 05:35 AM - bent elevator horn (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 06:22 AM - Re: Made a mistake (Don Emch) 7. 06:26 AM - Re: Made a mistake (Don Emch) 8. 08:03 AM - FW: Patch design (Steve Eldredge) 9. 09:08 AM - Pietenpol : [ Steve Eldredge ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! (Email List PhotoShares) 10. 10:50 AM - Re: bent elevator horn (shad bell) 11. 11:38 AM - inboard wing bracing (Jack T. Textor) 12. 12:18 PM - Re: Made a mistake (Jonathan Ragle) 13. 12:39 PM - Re: inboard wing bracing (Gardiner Mason) 14. 03:08 PM - Re: inboard wing bracing (walt) 15. 03:33 PM - Re: Made a mistake (carson) 16. 04:11 PM - Re: Re: Made a mistake (Clif Dawson) 17. 04:24 PM - Re: Re: Made a mistake (Peter W Johnson) 18. 06:43 PM - Re: inboard wing bracing (Gene & Tammy) 19. 09:18 PM - Re: inboard wing bracing (walt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:39 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake From: "carson" Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope much building shall be done by all. I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up,the metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets. I am thinking that I could turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads? Or should I just make a new fin and hang this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221888#221888 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:51:40 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake Carson, You could fill the space behind the gusset in the front of the vertical spar with spruce glued in place? The bracing wires take a lot of the load. Cheers Have a good one. Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Wednesday, 31 December 2008 8:38 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope much building shall be done by all. I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up,the metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets. I am thinking that I could turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads? Or should I just make a new fin and hang this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221888#221888 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:20:35 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control Jeff, I've been following your wow's and although I really felt for you, there wasn't anything I could add to the expert advice you were already getting. It really pleases me to read that you took care of your problem and chances are you will be flying tomorrow. I too will be flying tomorrow. What a way to start off a new year.! Life is good Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Boatright" Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 9:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Plane sitting: need list advice on elevator control > > Well gang, I'm back from the airfield, and things look pretty good.> > Tomorrow I patch the fabric, and then maybe, go flying on the first! > > Thanks for all the input, > > Jeff > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:36 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake Can you send a picture? I think Peter is right - you can probably fill the space between the gussets with spruce and be fine. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope much building shall be done by all. I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up,the metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets. I am thinking that I could turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads? Or should I just make a new fin and hang this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221888#221888 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:48 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: bent elevator horn Jeff; good on ya, mate! Doesn't it feel much better to know that you saw the damage, repaired it, and it will soon be good as new, with no doubt about its airworthiness? The saying is true, you get the best stories from people when you ask how they got a scar ;o) "Icarus Plummet" has been there, so has 41CC, so have others who have experienced cracks, crunches, rips, spills, falls, and other things that seemed like the end of the world at the time but ended up with new knowledge and experience. Shoot, the FAA even wrote and published a whole book about it... "AC43.13- Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices- Aircraft Alterations". Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:05 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake From: "Don Emch" I like Jack's idea... picture? But it sounds like you can use it. The cables take up the side load. The fittings are really just an anchor. Once again I redefined cold for myself yesterday. Somewhere in the low 30s, but I got about a half hour fix in. I don't know how the guys that don't fly through the Winter do it. Gotta get my fix. Snow today... skis tomorrow? Happy New Year! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221909#221909 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake From: "Don Emch" By the way Carson... It says an awful lot about you as a builder to admit a mistake to everyone and be open to their suggestions as to how to fix. Very respectable! Don Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221910#221910 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:31 AM PST US From: Steve Eldredge Subject: FW: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Sure! This is my starting point. http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=0KZt3DVqyYvkg has two pictures... I can change thread colors and backgrounds easily, so send in your suggestions, I like the one that has only the "75 years" above the Camper, but want only the 75 years in a different color. The hats are the same as before, with the words 'LOW AND SLOW FOR 80 YEARS' or 'CHERRY GROVE - 80 - BRODHEAD' over the back adjustment. I have had several custom done with N-numbers which I may offer again. The patch version will have the 80 years inside the patch similar to the 75th. Comments welcome... If there is interest, I can start making them available now, instead of waiting till summer. Like the 70th year (1999) and the 75th year, I plan on bringing a supply of patches and hats and t-shirts, and maybe a few sweatshirts. Andrew (in the piet) and I in the Stinson, plan on making the trip together. I've invited all 4 of my brothers to make the trip. 3 of us are pilots... I'm already looking forward to the gathering!! Best regards, Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 7:30 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Steve Sounds great you planning on showing us the patch before it goes into production? John ------Original Message------ From: Steve Eldredge Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Dec 30, 2008 8:23 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Good thought. I've already planned on making hats for the 80th, like I did for the 70th and 75th. Patches and embroidered t-shirts are in the works too. If you like it you can buy it. If you want to make your own, you can do that too. Steve E. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD@att.net Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2008 10:31 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Patch design Just a suggestion but, has anyone considered the design that Steve Eldredge uses on his caps as a patch design? It's been around awhile representing the fraternity and I would think Steve would allow it and maybe even produce them since he has an embroidery outfit already selected. Just a thought. Larry Williams - if you're looking for Chris Egsgaard or Billy Pobah, I'd try the machine shop! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:56 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol : [ Steve Eldredge ] : New Email List PhotoShare Available! From: Email List PhotoShares A new Email List PhotoShare is available: Poster: Steve Eldredge Lists: Pietenpol-List Subject: Air Camper Patches http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/steve@byu.edu.12.31.2008 ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main PhotoShare Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a PhotoShare If you wish to submit a PhotoShare of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures@matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:50:57 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: bent elevator horn Repairs usually build more experience than constructing it from scratch the 1st time.- So much mor thought has to go in to it.- I have also had to make repairs to my project while building wings.- Knocked the whole wing pannel off the bench with 20 lbs of bar clamps, c-clamps on the trailing e dge.- Broke the t/e strip in 2 places, some gussets and 1 rib.- If it w as warm enough to start my old tractor I probably would have thrown it in t he yard and ran over it.- But after the rage subsides look objectivly at it and just fix it,- now it's as good as it was before and it wasn't real ly all that hard to fix.- Just part of the homebuilding fun. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:15 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing From: "Jack T. Textor" All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay...I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:12 PM PST US From: Jonathan Ragle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake I dunno=2C but I have a very attractive (but not quite correct) RV6 rudder hanging on the wall of my garage if you need it. :) do not archive> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Made a mistake> From: carsonvella@ yahoo.com.au> Date: Wed=2C 31 Dec 2008 01:38:08 -0800> To: pietenpol-list@m @yahoo.com.au>> > Hi all firstly all the best for the new year and i hope m uch building shall be done by all.> I sat my tail on the fuse the other day and realized that I stuffed up the placement of the main spar by one inch so the spar on the horizontal and vertical stabs don't line up=2Cthe metal bracket has 2 bolts in the vertical but with my mistake I can only get one in and the other would only go through the gussets.> I am thinking that I c ould turn the bracket the other way and have 2 bolts in the Horizontal stab and 1 in the vertical> My question is would this cause problems or do the cables take most of the side loads?> Or should I just make a new fin and ha ng this one on the wall as a testament to my stupidity.> Thanks> Carson> > > > > Read this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic ========================> _ ====> > > _________________________________________________________________ Send e-mail anywhere. No map=2C no compass. http://windowslive.com/oneline/hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_anyw here_122008 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:03 PM PST US From: "Gardiner Mason" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:01 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake From: "carson" Thanks for the replies I was worried about adding extra weight down there do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. Here's some pic's Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222068#222068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_052_612.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_051_119.jpg ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:11:18 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake It doesn't have to be any longer than will take the top bolt hole. Since the fin is captured by the stabilizer the only movement the bolts resist is upward. The bolt is then pressing downward in compression on the wood under the bolt. Nobody makes mistreaks here! :-) Clif Happy New Year! "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison > do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. > Here's some pic's > Carson ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:24:42 PM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake Carson, Looks like a 1 1/2" triangular block would do nicely. Cheers Peter -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Thursday, 1 January 2009 10:33 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Made a mistake Thanks for the replies I was worried about adding extra weight down there do you guys think a small block would do or should i run it all the way up to the back of the leading edge. Here's some pic's Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222068#222068 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_052_612.jpg http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpol_051_119.jpg ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:43:38 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing A number of concave wings are not rib stitched but glued. ie. Avid. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. Thank you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG. 12/25/2008 9:40 AM ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:18:31 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gene, So you mean that you glue all the ribs with the fabric loose, then heat shrink each panel? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene & Tammy To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 9:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing A number of concave wings are not rib stitched but glued. ie. Avid. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 5:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Gardiner, It seems that adding the cap strips would have taken 5 times longer to do than just rib stitching. And I assume that you didn't build the original Pietenpol wing? Cause the under side of the original wing is concave, and has to be rib stitched, as far as I know. Please clarify. thanks walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 3:37 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing Jack, I just covered my wings and did not have any trouble. Instead of rib lacing I ran 1/4 by 1/2 inch strip on top and bottom the full length of the wing between the spars. And between the rear spar and trailing edge I did the same. This keeps the rib from pulling in when shrinking. I,like Barry, did not read the plans and completely missed the braces as depicted. Cheers, Gardiner Mason ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2008 2:37 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: inboard wing bracing All, I need some help with the diagonal bracing for the root rib. Barry has helped with some pictures, but I'm pretty lame. Regarding the bracing in the middle bay.I assume I need to brace the top and bottom of the rib. The middle bay is pretty cluttered with compression struts and wires. Has anyone braced the rib from the struts instead of the spar? For the rear bay, can I just brace to the middle of the rib or should I go to the top and bottom? That's about clear as mud! Hope everyone has a safe and prosperous 2009! Jack www.textors.com Jack Textor Vice President 3737 Woodland Avenue Suite #300 West Des Moines, IA 50266 515-225-7000 www.thepalmergroup.com This e-mail, including attachments, is covered by the Electronic Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. 2510-2521, is confidential, and may be legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any retention, dissemination, distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. Please reply to the sender that you have received the message in error, and then please delete it. 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