Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:39 AM - Run-in with the band saw (Jack T. Textor)
2. 05:46 AM - Re: Run-in with the band saw (H RULE)
3. 05:51 AM - Re: Run-in with the band saw (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
4. 10:52 AM - off-topic: Fairchild 51 (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 10:59 AM - Pietenpol aerobatics (Michael Perez)
6. 11:04 AM - Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 (Gene Rambo)
7. 11:28 AM - Pietenpol aerobatics (Oscar Zuniga)
8. 12:29 PM - Re: Pietenpol aerobatics (Tim Willis)
9. 02:07 PM - Pietenpol aerobatics (Oscar Zuniga)
10. 02:27 PM - Re: Pietenpol aerobatics (Patrick Panzera)
11. 04:40 PM - Nose of de Riblett (Ryan Michals)
12. 05:23 PM - Re: Pietenpol aerobatics (shad bell)
13. 05:36 PM - Re: More leading edge questions/ideas (jimd)
14. 07:48 PM - Re: Pietenpol aerobatics (Pieti Lowell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Run-in with the band saw |
Happy 2009 to all. The band saw got me yesterday, left middle finger,
cut to the bone. This was my first Piet accident and I hope the last.
Play it safe in 2009 all.
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
do not archive
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Run-in with the band saw |
Happy 2009 too;I had an old wood working teacher who used to show us how to
move wood through a band saw.He would use another piece of wood or a clamp
to move it.If the piece got out of place then the piece of wood or clamp w
ould get cut and not his fingers.Just a little tip fom an old guy that's pr
obably long since past on.He would do the same for any machinery;any saw or
grinder etc.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Jack T
. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A
Sent: Friday, January 2, 2009 7:38:18 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Run-in
with the band saw=0A=0A=0AHappy 2009 to all.- The band saw got me yesterd
ay, left middle finger, cut to the bone.- This was my first Piet accident
and I hope the last.- Play it safe in 2009 all.=0AJack=0Awww.textors.com
==
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Run-in with the band saw |
Remember to put the beer on the same side as your left hand. That way you don't
have to reach across the band saw to get a drink!
Just kidding. A guy I knew had cut a finger off with a table saw and when anyone
asked that was the answer he gave.
Heal well and fast.
Steve D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack T. Textor" <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Run-in with the band saw
> Happy 2009 to all. The band saw got me yesterday, left middle finger,
> cut to the bone. This was my first Piet accident and I hope the last.
> Play it safe in 2009 all.
>
> Jack
>
> www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
>
> do not archive
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | off-topic: Fairchild 51 |
Since traffic is a little slow and I know some of you like radial engines, take
a look at David Stroud's Fairchild 51 replica:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9773776@N08/sets/72157601305722923/
That is quite a large airframe!
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Pietenpol aerobatics |
Curious, anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane? I am wondering
if things like hammer heads and tail slides can be done. Anyone ever
get up the nerve to try anything other then straight and level, or is this the
last plane to even think about such things?
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009 |
Might have to call you on that one Oscar, what time did you watch
it????? About 10am here
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
To: Pietenpol List<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 01, 2009 10:06 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: The Great Waldo Pepper- 2009
<taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>>
I hereby lay claim to being the first Pietenpol list member to watch
"The Great Waldo Pepper" in the new year of 2009. Actually, it was the
first time I've ever seen the movie (I have it on VCR and now on DVD but
had not viewed it since acquiring my own mint condition videotape).
I expected a fairly lightweight film but it has EXCELLENT air action,
a good story line, some very tense scenes, and I'm glad I own the movie
now.
I think my favorite line is going to be "I never give rides to kids-
but for you I'll make an exception" (or whatever it is he tells the kid
in the opening piece). Good movie.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net<http://www.flysquirrel.net/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Pietenpol aerobatics |
Mike asked-
>anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane?
I have not. I was keen to practice spins and spin recovery in 41CC
but my instructor, who is proficient at aerobatics, felt that the
airplane might not have as much rudder as he'd like so we didn't try
spins.
>things like hammer heads and tail slides
Hammerheads, I wouldn't think would be an issue at all. Tail slides-
yikes! I'd be very hesitant to try that. The iffy part of it is
that a hammerhead can result in a tail-slide if the rudder break is
not performed in time, and either one can result in a spin if not
performed right. I'm not saying the Piet is impossible to spin and
recover from, I'm just saying I haven't demonstrated spins in mine.
Yet.
By the way, thinking about the tail surfaces, in the recent discussion
about the L-brackets that mount the vertical stabilizer to the
fuselage and horizontal stabilizers, someone mentioned that the only
force that the through-bolts would see is an upward pull as drag
pulls the stabilizer aft. I disagree, having looked back at the tail
in flight often enough to know that those surfaces see quite a bit of
buffetting from propeller slipstream and turbulence. In addition,
in a slip I would think that the surfaces would see some sidewise
forces as well. At any rate, I agree that a wooden block between the
gussets would do nicely to fix the little misalignment of the spars
and provide a good grip for the L-brackets.
I would also agree with putting in some offset (or the ability to
do so if needed later). My airplane has a fixed tab on the rudder and
could use just a skosh more... but a fixed offset in the vertical
stabilizer leading edge would take care of that.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol aerobatics |
Michael,
Good question. I have asked this question a few times myself. I have been told
that a power-on stall happens well below 20 degrees, and is not an event, as
the plane recovers well. Many slip their Piets very handily, and perhaps some
quite sharply, to align for landings. A sharp slip is something to learn at
greater altitude, though. Those maneuvers are a long way from a hammerhead, of
course.
A gentleman in Wisconsin told me that he has both rolled and looped his Pietenpol.
A gentleman in Florida told me that he had looped his Piet. Both men reported
good control and no damage. A few others asked such questions look off
into space and don't answer. Some who have done the math on the Piet's wing have
stated that it is overbuilt. Of course, good jury struts are essential for
either maneuver.
If I ever get to that point and have the aerobatics itch, I will supress it. I'd
never be able to get a parachute on and get in the plane, and most of us--
even short thin guys-- might not get out of a damaged Piet while wearing a parachute.
Second, my US Army parachute landings were not all that good over forty
years ago, and I don't bend well now. Third, we will all have enough time
building the plane that we don't want to lose it. Fourth, what might the disabled
plane hit on the ground?
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
>Sent: Jan 2, 2009 12:58 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pietenpol aerobatics
>
>Curious, anyone here ever do "aerobatics" of some sort with their plane? I am
wondering if things like hammer heads and tail slides can be done. Anyone ever
get up the nerve to try anything other then straight and level, or is this the
last plane to even think about such things?
Message 9
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| Subject: | Pietenpol aerobatics |
Tim wrote-
>I have been told that a power-on stall happens well below
>20 degrees, and is not an event, as the plane recovers well.
It's not an event but I would question the 20 degree figure,
at least in my plane. I will take a digital level up with me
and try power-on stalls to see what it reads, because the nose
sure seems to go a lot higher than that in 41CC. All I see
are clouds in the view ahead!
>Many slip their Piets very handily, and perhaps some quite
>sharply, to align for landings.
I slip 41CC on just about every landing, and I believe I've
had the rudders to the stop or nearly so on at least one
occasion in a slip.
>A sharp slip is something to learn at greater altitude
I guess, but I was taught slips before I even had one hour in
my logbook. I learned in a J-3, so slips are used for final
adjustment of altitude on just about every landing. I don't
believe I ever was shown a slip at anything higher than a
couple of hundred feet AGL, if that. Slips are not dangerous
maneuvers, as the airplane wants to come right out of it if
pressure is let off the controls and it takes conscious
muscle and effort to hold the airplane in a slip.
It was even demonstrated to me that in the event that I found
myself needing to lose altitude in a great hurry, to put the
airplane in a stall and let it mush on down, then recover at
the altitude where I wanted to be. I have not tried that one
at low altitude intentionally, but it should work.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 10
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| Subject: | Pietenpol aerobatics |
> It's not an event but I would question the 20 degree figure,
> at least in my plane. I will take a digital level up with me
> and try power-on stalls to see what it reads, because the nose
> sure seems to go a lot higher than that in 41CC. All I see
> are clouds in the view ahead!
Rookie mistake. :)
Look out at your wingtip and the horizon.
Pat
Message 11
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| Subject: | Nose of de Riblett |
Group,
-
When designing your rib jigs, does most everyone build the nose undersized
to accommodate for the additional leading edge ply/material or do you build
as it and cover?
-
-Plotting my jigs
-
Ryan Michalkiewicz=0A=0A=0A
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol aerobatics |
The only aerobatics I have done in the piet, is a lomchevec, followed by a
knife edge loop and a 2 turn snap roll, with a wing walker on the lift stru
ts.- Works better than a Pitts Special.- Next thing we may try is a lan
ding gear on top of the wing so we can do inverted touch and goes.
-
Just Kidding (Obviously)
Happy and safe New Year to All
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: More leading edge questions/ideas |
I probably over-analyzed the leading edge question myself to the point of paralysis.
Tried using a plane to shape wood, it works, but I couldn't get two wing
length pieces made with a consistent enough shape.
My top wings follow the Gregga GN-1 specs and have a 1 inch square wood piece supporting
.016 aluminum. (They are done, but even with each side cut in to three
pieces of aluminum, and a zillion little nails/brads holding them down, they
move a lot with temperature changes, think wood is the way to go.)
What I finally decided to do was have custom cutters made up by a molding shop
to exactly the shape of the leading edge and then have them make up a couple perfect
shaped boards for me. It took two weeks and $240, and still left the challenge
of shaping the ends to blend in with the wingtips. My wingtip ends extended
well past where the leading edge wood was going to attach and I had no idea
how to get the cut right on the wingtip wood. The long molding leading edge
pieces were flexible enough that I was able to bend them, and clamp the leading
edge piece in place, butting up against the side of the wingtip. I used a
backwards clamp (pushing out) to slightly extend the leading edge molding piece
past where it would intersect with the wingtip (so I would have some room to
square and true up the wingtip) then used a thin japanese pull saw against the
leading edge to cut the wingtip. Then took off the clamped on leading edge and
filed and sanded the wingtip flat and to length.
The wingtip matched up to the leading edge perfectly. Then I clamped the leading
edge in place at many points, and used a plane to shape the end to blend with
the wingtip. thought it would have been exactly in the middle of the leading
edge, but it was about 1/3 from the top instead of 1/2, so I planed it twice
on the long side for every once on the short one. Did some rounding strokes to
make it all even and it came out well. Once it was approaching the size I thought
it should be (about same size as the wingtip it was joining with) I used
the japanese saw to cut the leading edge end to length, and then a fine file and
sanding blocks to finish it up.
Think it turned out well.
Jim D.
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol aerobatics |
If your Piet is tail heavy and the pilot is around 200 Lbs, don't go more than
2 turns in a spin, or you will need close to 100 HP to get the tail back over
your head, Practice one (1) turn at a time.
A roll can be done IF you go into it at least 95 and can maintain 70, and keep
positive G all the way around, But the engine should also keep full power during
the entire roll.
Loops are easy, keep up your speed, Snaps are tough with a full length wing.
WARNING ! ! Do NOT get caught upside down, and not flying, tough on shoulder straps.
Pieti Lowell
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