---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/12/09: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:52 AM - Attach and Detach (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 06:32 AM - Aeronca baggage pod (Lawrence Williams) 3. 06:40 AM - gascolator mounting (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 10:03 AM - gascolator mounting (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 10:11 AM - Re: gascolator mounting (Phillips, Jack) 6. 10:20 AM - Wing construction (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 7. 10:24 AM - gascolator mounting (Oscar Zuniga) 8. 10:30 AM - Re: Wing construction (Phillips, Jack) 9. 11:09 AM - gascolator mounting (Oscar Zuniga) 10. 02:09 PM - Re: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon (Jim Markle) 11. 02:22 PM - Re: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon (H RULE) 12. 03:14 PM - Re: flex fuel lines and filters (Mike Tunnicliffe) 13. 03:25 PM - Re: Wing construction (Dick N.) 14. 05:37 PM - Fuel Tanks (Don Emch) 15. 06:12 PM - Re: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon (Graham Hansen) 16. 06:32 PM - Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon (Jim Markle) 17. 07:54 PM - Re: Wing construction (amsafetyc@aol.com) 18. 08:34 PM - Re: Wing construction (Gary Boothe) 19. 08:39 PM - Piet 'Bumper Stickers' (Steve Eldredge) 20. 08:43 PM - Re: Piet 'Bumper Stickers' (amsafetyc@aol.com) 21. 08:51 PM - Re: Wing construction (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:12 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Attach and Detach I think I'd go with wing pods if they can be made large enough to stow what you're trying to stow. Attach to the lift strut attach points on the wings. Much easier to get to and to mount/dismount than having to crawl under the airplane=2C plus if you think about it=2C tiedown points are typically at that same spot so it's a good place structurally and doesn't affect C of G. I'll bet the wartime L-birds hung things off the wings like that=3B maybe even as much as 30-50 lbs. but I'm just guessing.Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC "Pelican's Pouch" San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:46 AM PST US From: Lawrence Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aeronca baggage pod Corky- - interestingly, we have a guy here at our airport that was an engineer for A merican Champion (or whoever it is that now makes Citabrias, etc) and one o f his BIG projects was to design and get approval for a baggage pod. - The short story is that there was so much beaurocratic work to do including wind tunnel testing and repetitive material analysis, that the company fin ally abandoned the project as being far too expensive in time and money to be justified. The end of another good idea trampled by red tape and layers of government good intentions. - So, make your own pod, slap an "experimental" sign on the side, pack up-a nd go fly!! - Larry=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:01 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting Hi all, Can one mount the gascolator by simply attaching it to some sort of male threaded bulkhead fitting and that that support it or does it need one of those sheet metal brackets as well? I see ACS has something with big flange which you drill and mount on the firewall, which would be perfect, but not sure if this is approved. Bingeles shows a bracket in is books. Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 10:03:11 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting Douwe=3B I used one of those bulkhead fittings to mount the gascolator on 41CC when I rebuilt the firewall and it works great. A couple of comments thoug h: 1. Be sure you locate the gascolator so that no part of it protrudes below the bottom edge of the firewall. In a belly-scraper=2C you don't want the gascolator to get peeled off and start leaking gas. 2. The installation instructions with the bulkhead fitting say to install a doubler on the firewall. Initially I didn't think it would be necessary wi th the new stainless firewall that I have=2C but it is definitely needed in or der to keep everything rigid. Don't scrimp on size or gauge of the doubler. I th ink I used an aluminum disk and riveted it to the backside of the firewall. 3. Even with the doubler=2C my gascolator still had some flex to it so I ma de a brace for the bottom of it by bending up some heavy aluminum wire into a V-shaped brace or stay that attaches to the lower edge of the firewall at two points. A picture would be best but I don't have one of exactly that. However=2C I have some that may be visible and can send those directly to y ou unless there are others who may be interested. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:11:48 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting From: "Phillips, Jack" I made a simple bracket for my gascolator. Easier to remove and reinstall than trying to unscrew something from the back side of the firewall. Here's a picture: Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:01 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting Douwe; I used one of those bulkhead fittings to mount the gascolator on 41CC when I rebuilt the firewall and it works great. A couple of comments though: 1. Be sure you locate the gascolator so that no part of it protrudes below the bottom edge of the firewall. In a belly-scraper, you don't want the gascolator to get peeled off and start leaking gas. 2. The installation instructions with the bulkhead fitting say to install a doubler on the firewall. Initially I didn't think it would be necessary with the new stainless firewall that I have, but it is definitely needed in order to keep everything rigid. Don't scrimp on size or gauge of the doubler. I think I used an aluminum disk and riveted it to the backside of the firewall. 3. Even with the doubler, my gascolator still had some flex to it so I made a brace for the bottom of it by bending up some heavy aluminum wire into a V-shaped brace or stay that attaches to the lower edge of the firewall at two points. A picture would be best but I don't have one of exactly that. However, I have some that may be visible and can send those directly to you unless there are others who may be interested. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:20:48 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! cemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:24:53 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting I went ahead and put up some gascolator photos on a little website=2C here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/gascolator.html Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:30:28 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction From: "Phillips, Jack" Make them mirror images , John. The ailerons should be out near the tips. Sorry - couldn't resist, but really they are mirror images. Jack Philips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John _____ A Good Credit Score is 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc 668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:49 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: gascolator mounting Jack=2C you're absolutely right about the bulkhead fitting... there is no way to remove the gascolator without literally spinning it off of the fitting and there has to be clear space on the firewall all around it to allow that. A bracket is much easier to deal with as far as removal of the gascolator. However=2C what I liked about it was that it really cleaned up and simplified the fuel piping. One less hose=2C a couple fewer fittings. So... just like at the cafeteria=2C you pick what you like and put it on your plate to make your own Happy Meal!Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:09:17 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon What a coincidence! I ALSO have a quote on my shop wall: "Larry ain't lettin' up, so....BUILD FASTER!!!" :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Williams To: Pietlist Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon It's great to be home again after a holiday visit with two of our children. I was able to get in a nice early evening flight in the Piet on Thursday and have been glowing ever since. I never stop marvelling at the honest and dependable little airplane that has been such a fulfilling part of my life. While unpacking a box recently, I came across a few little quotes that I had taped up on my basement wall during the construction of my Air Camper. These were the philosophy that guided me during the years of building in the days before the help (?) of the internet. 1. Simplificate and add lightness. Gen. Billy Mitchell 2. It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to delete. Antoine de Saint-Exupery 3. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison And finally, the HUGE ONE: 4. Strive for design simplicity, you never have to fix anything you leave out. Bill Lear I also note that in the recent BPA newsletter that the man-of-action and Johnny-on-the-spot intrepid Piet flier, Michael Cuy is quoted as remembering the 1998 anniversary fly-in to OSH. It must have been lonely for him since the rest of the flight didn't show up for about 12 months. Mike was always one to blaze the trail for the rest of us. (giggle, giggle). Everybody plan on being in south-central Wisconsin the end of July this year. If you are still building......build faster!!! (This means you, Markle) Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:22:54 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon You mentioned a quote from Bill Lear there and I always remember what he sa id when critisized about his plane being so low that one has to stoop insid e it and he said "well ya can't stand up inside a Cadillac neither!"=0A=0A =0Agota love em!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________ ________=0AFrom: Jim Markle =0ATo: pietenpol-lis t@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:08:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon=0A=0A=0AWhat a coincid ence!--I ALSO have a quote on my shop wall:=0A-=0A"Larry ain't-lett in' up,-so....BUILD FASTER!!!"=0A-=0A:-)=0A-=0A-=0A----- Original M essage ----- =0AFrom: Lawrence Williams =0ATo: Pietlist =0ASent: Sunday, Ja nuary 11, 2009 2:53 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon=0A=0AIt's great to be home again after a holiday visit with two of our children. I was able to get in a nice early evening flight in the P iet on Thursday and have been glowing ever since. I never stop marvelling a t the honest and dependable little airplane that has been such a fulfilling part of my life.=0A=0AWhile unpacking a box recently, I came across a few little quotes that I had taped up on my basement wall during the constructi on of my Air Camper. These were the philosophy that guided me during the ye ars of building in the days before the help (?) of the internet.=0A=0A1. Si mplificate and add lightness. Gen. Billy Mitchell=0A2. It seems that perfec tion is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is n othing more to delete. Antoine de Saint-Exupery=0A3. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thoma s Edison=0AAnd finally, the HUGE ONE:=0A4. Strive for design simplicity, yo u never have to fix anything you leave out. Bill Lear=0A=0AI also note that in the recent BPA newsletter that the man-of-action and Johnny-on-the-spot intrepid Piet flier, -Michael Cuy is quoted as remembering the 1998 anni versary fly-in to OSH. It must have been lonely for him since the rest of t he flight didn't show up for about 12 months. Mike was always one to blaze the trail for the rest of us. (giggle, giggle).=0A=0AEverybody plan on bein g in south-central Wisconsin the end of July this year. If you are still bu ilding......build faster!!! (This means you, Markle)=0A=0ALarry Williams- xcg, xcmr, epp=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=0Ahref='3D"http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D =3D=0Ahref='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.co m=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3 D=3D=0Ahref='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matr onics.com/contribution=0A3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= ===== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:37 PM PST US From: Mike Tunnicliffe Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: flex fuel lines and filters however if you are upside down and have vented fuel caps, the gas will still be leaking, so stay right side up. Hi, if you have a vent pipe that runs from the top of the tank to vent below it will not leak in the event you become inverted. Regards Mike T. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:25:32 PM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction John Don't take the idea of building 2 right wings too lightly, it's been done before, not by me. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Make them mirror images , John. The ailerons should be out near the tips. Sorry - couldn't resist, but really they are mirror images. Jack Philips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:19 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- A Good Credit Score is 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc =668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:37:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuel Tanks From: "Don Emch" Don't really know why but in addition to old airplanes I also have other strange interests. One of them is VW Beetles. I'm an all stock guy. The custom guys do all kinds of things with their Bugs, including custom fuel tanks. I thought maybe their might be some interest in this website. They custom make aluminum fuel tanks. http://www.aluminumgastanks.net/ For those around the Ohio area I know of a fantastic racecar fab shop that can do a great job on the welding if you take one to them that is already fabbed up. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=224374#224374 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:20 PM PST US From: "Graham Hansen" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon Larry Williams and group, I'm not saying that the saying "Simplificate and add lightness." did not originate with General Billy MItchell, but I do have an excellent book titled The Speed Seekers by Thomas G. Foxworth, ISBN 0-385-06050-5, and it attributes a similar quotation to William B. Stout who fathered the Ford Tri-Motor transport. Beneath a photograph of Stout on page 83, it says his lifelong doctrine was "simplicate and add lightness." I hope you don't think of this as "nit picking" because I only wish to reveal what I have found in Foxworth's well-researched book about the development of racing airplanes and aero engines, primarily in the 1920's (when our favorite airplane was designed---although the Pietenpol isn't by any stretch of the imagination a racing airplane!). If anyone can find this book in the local library, I hereby endorse it as a really good read. Cheers, Graham Hansen (My Pietenpol CF-AUN is snowed-in here at Camrose, Alberta, Canada. Maybe it's time to install the skis.) ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:40 PM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon Well, not to get TOO far off topic here... "Lear" and "lazy Sunday afternoons" takes me back to my first car, a 50' Plymouth and the Lear 4 Track cartridge player I installed in it when I rebuilt the car (seems like I had to convert to 12v)...and the Saturday and Sunday afternoons listening to music. Followed of course by pushing the old Plymouth to start it since I ran down the battery... Jim (temporarily) in cold, snowy Chicago.... ----- Original Message ----- From: H RULE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 4:21 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon You mentioned a quote from Bill Lear there and I always remember what he said when critisized about his plane being so low that one has to stoop inside it and he said "well ya can't stand up inside a Cadillac neither!" gota love em! do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: Jim Markle To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 5:08:14 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon What a coincidence! I ALSO have a quote on my shop wall: "Larry ain't lettin' up, so....BUILD FASTER!!!" :-) ----- Original Message ----- From: Lawrence Williams To: Pietlist Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 2:53 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thoughts on a lazy Sunday afternooon It's great to be home again after a holiday visit with two of our children. I was able to get in a nice early evening flight in the Piet on Thursday and have been glowing ever since. I never stop marvelling at the honest and dependable little airplane that has been such a fulfilling part of my life. While unpacking a box recently, I came across a few little quotes that I had taped up on my basement wall during the construction of my Air Camper. These were the philosophy that guided me during the years of building in the days before the help (?) of the internet. 1. Simplificate and add lightness. Gen. Billy Mitchell 2. It seems that perfection is attained not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing more to delete. Antoine de Saint-Exupery 3. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Thomas Edison And finally, the HUGE ONE: 4. Strive for design simplicity, you never have to fix anything you leave out. Bill Lear I also note that in the recent BPA newsletter that the man-of-action and Johnny-on-the-spot intrepid Piet flier, Michael Cuy is quoted as remembering the 1998 anniversary fly-in to OSH. It must have been lonely for him since the rest of the flight didn't show up for about 12 months. Mike was always one to blaze the trail for the rest of us. (giggle, giggle). Everybody plan on being in south-central Wisconsin the end of July this year. If you are still building......build faster!!! (This means you, Markle) Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List"'>http://www .matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://forums.matronics.com"'>http://forums.matronics.com 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D href='3D"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"'>http://www.matronics.c om/contribution 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction From: amsafetyc@aol.com RGljaw0KDQpXaGF0IGRvIEkgbmVlZCB0byBkbyB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgdGhhdCBkb2Vzbid0IGhh cHBlbi4gVGhpcyBoYXMgbWUgcmVhbGx5IGNvbmNlcm5lZC4gSSBhbSBhYmxlIHRvIGNvbmNlcHR1 YWxpemUgdGhlIGlkZWEgb2YgaXQgYmVpbmcgMiBpZGVudGljYWwgaGFsdmVzIG9mIHRoZSBzYW1l IHN0cnVjdHVyZSwgaG93ZXZlciBJIGFtIGNvbmNlcm5lZCB0aGF0IGl0cyBqdXN0IG5vdCB0aGF0 IHNpbXBsZS4gV2hpY2ggaXMgd2hlcmUgdGhlIGRpZmZpY3VsdHkgbGllcyBpbiBteSBhYmlsaXR5 IHRvIHZpc3VhbGl6ZSBjb25uZWN0aW5nIHRoZSAyIHdpbmdzIHRvIHRoZSBjZW50ZXIgc2VjdGlv biBhbmQgaGF2ZSB0aGVtIGZhY2luZyB0aGUgc2FtZSBkaXJlY3Rpb24uIA0KDQppcyBpdCB0aGF0 IHNpbXBsZSBvciB3aGF0IGFtIEkgbWlzc2luZy4gDQoNCkFsbCBJIHJlYWxseSBuZWVkIGlzIHNv bWVvbmUgdG8gdGVsbCBtZSB0aGV5IGFyZSAyIGlkZW50aWNhbCBzdHJ1Y3R1cmVzLiAgDQoNClRo YW5rcw0KDQpKb2huDQpTZW50IGZyb20gbXkgVmVyaXpvbiBXaXJlbGVzcyBCbGFja0JlcnJ5DQoN Ci0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiAiRGljayBOLiIgPGhvcnpwb29sQGdv bGRlbmdhdGUubmV0Pg0KDQpEYXRlOiBNb24sIDEyIEphbiAyMDA5IDE3OjI1OjAwIA0KVG86IDxw aWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0 OiBXaW5nIGNvbnN0cnVjdGlvbg0KDQoNCkpvaG4gDQpEb24ndCB0YWtlIHRoZSBpZGVhIG9mIGJ1 aWxkaW5nIDIgcmlnaHQgd2luZ3MgdG9vIGxpZ2h0bHksIGl0J3MgYmVlbiBkb25lIGJlZm9yZSwg bm90IGJ5IG1lLiAgDQpEaWNrIE4uDQogIC0tLS0tIE9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UgLS0tLS0gDQog IEZyb206IFBoaWxsaXBzLCBKYWNrIA0KICBUbzogcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bSANCiAgU2VudDogTW9uZGF5LCBKYW51YXJ5IDEyLCAyMDA5IDEyOjI3IFBNDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6 IFJFOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogV2luZyBjb25zdHJ1Y3Rpb24NCg0KDQogIE1ha2UgdGhlbSBt aXJyb3IgaW1hZ2VzICwgSm9obi4gIFRoZSBhaWxlcm9ucyBzaG91bGQgYmUgb3V0IG5lYXIgdGhl IHRpcHMuDQoNCiAgIA0KDQogIFNvcnJ5IC0gY291bGRuJ3QgcmVzaXN0LCBidXQgcmVhbGx5IHRo ZXkgYXJlIG1pcnJvciBpbWFnZXMuDQoNCiAgIA0KDQogIEphY2sgUGhpbGlwcw0KDQogIE5YODk5 SlANCg0KICAgDQoNCg0KLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQoNCiAgRnJvbTogb3duZXItcGll dGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2VydmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20gW21haWx0bzpvd25lci1waWV0ZW5wb2wt bGlzdC1zZXJ2ZXJAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbV0gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIEFNc2FmZXR5Q0Bhb2wuY29t DQogIFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgSmFudWFyeSAxMiwgMjAwOSAxOjE5IFBNDQogIFRvOiBwaWV0ZW5w b2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tDQogIFN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBXaW5nIGNv bnN0cnVjdGlvbg0KDQogICANCg0KICBUaGUgcGxhbnMgc2hvdyBiYXNpY2FsbHkgYSBzaW5nbGUg ZHJhd2luZyBmb3IgdGhlIHdpbmcsIGFuZCBmb3Igc29tZSByZWFzb24gSSBjYW50IHNlZW0gdG8g Z2V0IG15IGhlYWQgd3JhcHBlZCBhcm91bmQgb25lIG9mIG15IGNvbmNlcm5zLiBBdCB0aGUgcmlz ayBvZiBzb3VuZGluZyByZWFsbHkgb2ZmIHRoZSB3YWxsIGlzIHRoZXJlIGFueSBkaWZmZXJlbmNl IEkgbmVlZCB0byB0YWtlIGludG8gY29uc2lkZXJhdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSBsZWZ0IGFuZCBy aWdodCBzaWRlIHdpbmdzLiBBbnl0aGluZyBJIG5lZWQgdG8gcmV2ZXJzZSwgZmxpcCBvdmVyIG9y IGRvIGRpZmZlcmVudGx5IG9yIGlzIGl0IGp1c3QgYXMgaXQgYXBwZWFyIDIgaWRlbnRpY2FsIHdp bmdzIHVzZWQgb24gbGVmdCBhbmQgcmlnaHQ/DQoNCiAgIA0KDQogIEZvciBzb21lIHJlYXNvbiBJ IGp1c3QgY2FuIHNlZW0gdG8gc2VlIGl0IGFuZCBiZWZvcmUgSSBidWlsZCBhbmQgZW5kIHVwIHdp dGggMiBpZGVudGljYWwgcmlnaHQgd2luZ3MgaXMgdGhlcmUgc29tZXRoaW5nIHRoYXQgSSBhbSBu b3Qgc2VlaW5nLCBzb21ldGhpbmcgZGlmZmVyZW50IEkgaGF2ZSB0byBkbyBvciBhbSBJIG1ha2lu ZyBtb3JlIG91dCBvZiB0aGlzIHRoYW4ganVzdCBidWlsZGluZyAyIG9mIGV4YWN0bHkgdGhlIHNh bWUgd2luZyBhc3NlbWJsaWVzPw0KDQogICANCg0KICBDYW4gc29tZSBvbmUgcmVhc3N1cmUgbWUg ZWl0aGVyIHdheSwgaWRlbnRpY2FsIG9yIGRpZmZlcmVudD8gQXJlIHRoZXJlIGFueSBvdGhlciB0 aGluZ3MgdGhhdCBJIG5lZWQgdG8gbG9vayBmb3Igb3IgZG8gdG8gYXZvaWQgbWFraW5nIHNvbWUg cmVhbGx5IGxhcmdlIG9yIHN0dXBpZCBtaXN0YWtlLg0KDQogICANCg0KICBUaGFua3MNCg0KICAg DQoNCiAgSm9obg0KDQogICANCg0KICAgDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0NCg0KICBBIEdvb2QgQ3JlZGl0IFNjb3JlIGlzIDcyMDEwMjg3NDcvYW9sP3JlZGlyPWh0dHA6 Ly93d3cuZnJlZWNyZWRpdHJlcG9ydC5jb20vcG0vZGVmYXVsdC5hc3B4P3NjPTY2ODA3MiUyNmht cGdJRD02MiUyNmJjZD1EZWNlbWFpbGZvb3Rlck5PNjIiPiBTZWUgeW91cnMgaW4ganVzdCAyIGVh c3kgc3RlcHMhDQoNCiAgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbWh0dHA6Ly93d3cubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNv bS9jb250cmlidXRpb24gICANCiAgDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNClRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBpcyBmb3IgdGhlIGRlc2lnbmF0ZWQgcmVj aXBpZW50IG9ubHkgYW5kIG1heSBjb250YWluIHByaXZpbGVnZWQsIHByb3ByaWV0YXJ5DQpvciBv dGhlcndpc2UgcHJpdmF0ZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbi4gSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgaXQgaW4g ZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlcg0KaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkgYW5kIGRlbGV0ZSB0 aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwuIEFueSBvdGhlciB1c2Ugb2YgdGhlIGVtYWlsIGJ5IHlvdSBpcyBwcm9oaWJp dGVkLg0KDQpEYW5zayAtIERldXRzY2ggLSBFc3Bhbm9sIC0gRnJhbmNhaXMgLSBJdGFsaWFubyAt IEphcGFuZXNlIC0gTmVkZXJsYW5kcyAtIE5vcnNrIC0gUG9ydHVndWVzZQ0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:15 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction John, You have two spars, 2 left and 2 right. Both spars have a butt rib that starts closest to the fuselage. Label each one #1L and #1R. As you move outboard on each wing, label the ribs #2L, #3L, #4L, etc: #2R, #3R, #4R, etc. When you are done you will have two wings, mirror images of each other and identical in all other ways. Hope this helps=85. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down=85) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of amsafetyc@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 7:52 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Dick What do I need to do to make sure that doesn't happen. This has me really concerned. I am able to conceptualize the idea of it being 2 identical halves of the same structure, however I am concerned that its just not that simple. Which is where the difficulty lies in my ability to visualize connecting the 2 wings to the center section and have them facing the same direction. is it that simple or what am I missing. All I really need is someone to tell me they are 2 identical structures. Thanks John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry _____ From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction John Don't take the idea of building 2 right wings too lightly, it's been done before, not by me. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Phillips, Jack Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 12:27 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Make them mirror images , John. The ailerons should be out near the tips. Sorry ' couldn=92t resist, but really they are mirror images. Jack Philips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Monday, January 12, 2009 1:19 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction The plans show basically a single drawing for the wing, and for some reason I cant seem to get my head wrapped around one of my concerns. At the risk of sounding really off the wall is there any difference I need to take into consideration between the left and right side wings. Anything I need to reverse, flip over or do differently or is it just as it appear 2 identical wings used on left and right? For some reason I just can seem to see it and before I build and end up with 2 identical right wings is there something that I am not seeing, something different I have to do or am I making more out of this than just building 2 of exactly the same wing assemblies? Can some one reassure me either way, identical or different? Are there any other things that I need to look for or do to avoid making some really large or stupid mistake. Thanks John _____ A Good Credit Score is 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc =6680 72%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62"> See yours in just 2 easy steps! http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c Web http://www.matronics.com/contribution =========== =B7~=89=B2,=03g'=D3=D3 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:24 PM PST US From: Steve Eldredge Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet 'Bumper Stickers' Just toying with ideas on patches and thought I'd bounce the idea of a bump er sticker off the list... What do you think of this kind of 'international' look? [cid:image001.png@01C974FE.2FC6C240] Steve E ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:21 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet 'Bumper Stickers' From: amsafetyc@aol.com Neat Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Steve Eldredge Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet 'Bumper Stickers' Just toying with ideas on patches and thought I'd bounce the idea of a bumper sticker off the list... What do you think of this kind of 'international' look? [cid:image001.png@01C974FE.2FC6C240] Steve E ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:51:48 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wing construction Since this is really difficult for you, why not just have the wing plan page copied in reverse. Is there someone near you or, if you belong, an EAA member that can check your work. Since we all really like pictures, send them along as you progress, particularely when you've come to an irreversable juncture in the build, like just before glueing ribs for instance. Most of the bits and pieces are all identical. All the ribs are the same, all four spars are the same. the only difference there is that one wing will have the pointy( outboard ) end of the spars on the left and on the other wing those ends will be on the right. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: amsafetyc@aol.com Dick What do I need to do to make sure that doesn't happen. This has me really concerned. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.