---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 01/31/09: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:56 AM - Squeezing 4130 (carson) 2. 04:49 AM - Re: Squeezing 4130 (Don Emch) 3. 04:53 AM - Re: Squeezing 4130 (Jack Phillips) 4. 07:32 AM - Re: Squeezing 4130 (Gary Boothe) 5. 08:51 AM - Aileron nut plates and varnish (Michael Perez) 6. 11:14 AM - aileron nut plates, (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 7. 11:18 AM - Re: Newbie (Thomas Bernie) 8. 11:19 AM - Re: Squeezing 4130 (Dave Abramson) 9. 12:36 PM - Re: Squeezing 4130 (carson) 10. 01:51 PM - Then watch this (walt) 11. 01:51 PM - first look at this (walt) 12. 02:08 PM - Re: Newbie (Ernie Moreno) 13. 02:25 PM - Re: Then watch this (Jack Phillips) 14. 02:58 PM - Re: Then watch this (Gary Boothe) 15. 04:22 PM - Re: Newbie (Gene & Tammy) 16. 05:05 PM - Re: Then watch this (Michael Perez) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:56:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 From: "carson" Hi All I have started welding my metal parts tonight I welded the first rudder pedal I then cold squeezed the ends as per the plans and got cracks along the side of the squeezed section. I think that I could fix it by welding the crack but should I have done something different like heating the metal first and if so how hot should I get it. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227839#227839 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Squeezing 4130 From: "Don Emch" Yes, heat it to a nice cherry red, then squeeze it. I made a set of jaws for my vise that are radiused at the ends so as to get a nice transition from round tube to flat end. Once you squeeze it though all of the heat immediately leaves the piece and goes into the vise or whatever you are squeezing with and makes the part hard and brittle (loses its toughness). That big chunk of steel (vise) acts as a quench. So you then want to heat the flattened end back up to a cherry red and slowly pull the flame away and let it cool slowly and the hardness will go away and most importantly the toughness will come back. Good Luck! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227849#227849 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:56 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 Carson, For all the squeezed tubes (and there are a lot of them in a pietenpol) you definitely want to heat the tube to yellow heat, then quickly put it in the jaws of the vise and squeeze. Most require multiple applications of heat and squeeze or you will crack the tube. I made a set of angle iron inserts for the jaws of my vise to get enough smooth surface area to cover the tube (remember, it spreads as you squeeze it). I made some of the angle iron with a bent flange to handle the tubes that need to be squeezed and bent (like the spreader bars on the straight axle gear). Tony Bingelis showed how to do this in one of the books - I think it was in the EAA Aircraft Welding book. Good Luck, Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 Hi All I have started welding my metal parts tonight I welded the first rudder pedal I then cold squeezed the ends as per the plans and got cracks along the side of the squeezed section. I think that I could fix it by welding the crack but should I have done something different like heating the metal first and if so how hot should I get it. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227839#227839 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:32:18 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 Carson, I would defer to Jack and Bill any time, but without the benefit of their input, I made inserts of 12ga 4130 for each of the ends. This seemed to be enough to keep the cracks from forming and beefed up the bearing surface significantly. After crimping, I welded the ends by fusing the pieces together. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 Hi All I have started welding my metal parts tonight I welded the first rudder pedal I then cold squeezed the ends as per the plans and got cracks along the side of the squeezed section. I think that I could fix it by welding the crack but should I have done something different like heating the metal first and if so how hot should I get it. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227839#227839 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:10 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Aileron nut plates and varnish Hello group. My right wing is built. I want to install the nut plates for t he aileron hinge and was thinking of riveting the nut plates in. Problem is , I have never done rivets. How is such a task done and what are the requir ed tools?- I see some used screws and epoxy; is this method just as good? Were wood screws used or were machine screws used through the wood with nu ts? As always, I want the lightest, cleanest method. - Second, would it be wise to varnish prior to nut plate install., or after? Thanks you in advance. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:14:03 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron nut plates, Mike, I simply wood screwed my nutplate 'ears' into the wood using a dab of epoxy in the holes after the initial 'dry' installation was complete. I used small countersunk head machine screws in my alum. piano hinge to match the nutplate threads. Floating nut plates are more forgiving for fastener/screw alignment but the fixed one are a bit cheaper I believe and work fine too. No need to over-do the spacing on your aileron anchor points. I believe I have about 7 ea. per hinge faces. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:37 AM PST US From: Thomas Bernie Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie Mark, I'm finishing my C-85 powered GN-1 -- about to cover the fuselage (doug fir). My main caution to you would be to take a close look at the example weight and balance in the plans. Although it is incorrectly done, you can use the example weights to do the calculations properly. You'll find a far aft c.g. (I think it is almost 35%) I did a preliminary weighing on mine with the wings simulated by weights and found the same far aft c.g. Now my J-3 mount has to go. I have to build a new mount at least six inches longer. Maybe the steel fuselage will be different, but just be aware before buying a motor mount and cowling. Feel free to PM. Tom Bernie Gloucester, Mass. On Jan 30, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Mark Baxter wrote: > > > > Greetings all, > This is my first post but I have been following along for several > months. I recently purchased a GN-1 project with steel fuselage on > J-3 type gear. The fuselage was built without variation from the > drawings and workmanship seems top notch. I am a first time builder > and intend to adhere to the plans and 43-13. I intend to use a > Continental without accessories. My goal is to save time where > possible and use J-3 components such as engine mount, tank, and > cowl. Can anyone here advise on this line of thinking. From what I > gather I need to be mindful of overall weight and CG. Thanks in > advance and I look forward to getting to know some of you. > Mark Baxter > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227718#227718 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:00 AM PST US From: "Dave Abramson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 Hi Carson, I noticed that too and decided to cut a slot in the rudder bar ends, and weld a tab in which to attach the rudder cables too. Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of carson Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:40 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Squeezing 4130 Hi All I have started welding my metal parts tonight I welded the first rudder pedal I then cold squeezed the ends as per the plans and got cracks along the side of the squeezed section. I think that I could fix it by welding the crack but should I have done something different like heating the metal first and if so how hot should I get it. Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227839#227839 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:41 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Squeezing 4130 From: "carson" Thanks for the replies I'm TIG welding so will head out to buy a gas torch to heat them up. Do I also need to heat the welds as well or is it ok that thay have cooled slowly anyway? Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227899#227899 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:17 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this For a wintery day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA&feature=related Keep building,,it's worth it!!! do not archive walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:43 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: first look at this For a wintery afternoon http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUmIO_MG5IU walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:51 PM PST US From: "Ernie Moreno" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie hello Mark, i am located at Independence Or. I have a pietenpol Aircamper as well as the GN-1 plans. Ernie Moreno Independence Or. ----- Original Message ----- From: "CHRISTINE BAXTER" Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie > > > Hi gary, > Thanks for the reply, I am looking forward to getting to know some folks > on the list. I am located in Corvallis, Oregon. Take care., > Mark > On Jan 30, 2009, at 12:47 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > >> >> >> Welcome Mark! >> >> I'll let some of the GN-1 builders answer your technical questions. >> Where >> are you located? >> >> Gary Boothe >> Cool, Ca. >> Pietenpol >> WW Corvair Conversion >> Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) >> (12 ribs down.) >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark >> Baxter >> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 10:51 AM >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie >> >> >> >> Greetings all, >> This is my first post but I have been following along for several >> months. I >> recently purchased a GN-1 project with steel fuselage on J-3 type gear. >> The >> fuselage was built without variation from the drawings and workmanship >> seems >> top notch. I am a first time builder and intend to adhere to the plans >> and >> 43-13. I intend to use a Continental without accessories. My goal is >> to >> save time where possible and use J-3 components such as engine mount, >> tank, >> and cowl. Can anyone here advise on this line of thinking. From what I >> gather I need to be mindful of overall weight and CG. Thanks in advance >> and >> I look forward to getting to know some of you. >> Mark Baxter >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227718#227718 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:02 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this Thanks, Walt. Welcome to the world of flying an RV-4. Just like a Pietenpol, only faster, aerobatic, and not open cockpit. Here is a video taken from my RV-4 over Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia, where I hope to retire this year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzV-7-MkH0 _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this For a wintery day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA &feature=related Keep building,,it's worth it!!! do not archive walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:58:42 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this Nice video, Walt, but what's winter got to do with it? It's 67 F, not a cloud in the sky, nor a breath of wind. Heck, I could be painting today. Instead I got my elevator control tubes welded and primed..think I'll finish of the day with some varnishing. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this For a wintery day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA &feature=related Keep building,,it's worth it!!! do not archive walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:56 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie Tom. For what it's worth. I would think long and hard before I extended the motor mount. I believe it would make your plane very susceptable to ground looping. You might want to investigate moving your wing back to achieve a good W&B. I would suggest you may want to put that question out to the group. Just my thoughts Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Bernie" Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:05 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie > > > > I did a preliminary weighing on mine with the wings simulated by weights > and found the same far aft c.g. Now my J-3 mount has to go. I have to > build a new mount at least six inches longer. > > > Tom Bernie > Gloucester, Mass. > > >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Date: 1/30/2009 12:00 AM > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:39 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this That was a great video. How about when I get my plane finished, myself and Mr. Cuy can fly down, we'll all form up and you can lead us through an aeri al tour! --- On Sat, 1/31/09, Jack Phillips wrote: From: Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this Thanks, Walt.- Welcome to the world of flying an RV-4.- Just like a Pie tenpol, only faster, aerobatic, and not open cockpit. - Here is a video taken from my RV-4 over Smith Mountain Lake , Virginia , wh ere I hope to retire this year: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzV-7-MkH0 - - From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this - For a wintery day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA&feature=related - Keep building,,it's worth it!!! - do not archive - - walt evans NX140DL - - - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.m atronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.