Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sun 02/01/09


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:54 AM - Model A mixture control (John Smoyer)
     2. 07:43 AM - Re: Newbie (Skip Gadd)
     3. 08:16 AM - Stewart Systems EkoSeal (Michael Perez)
     4. 10:28 AM - Re: Newbie (Gene & Tammy)
     5. 10:50 AM - Re: Model A mixture control (walt)
     6. 10:52 AM - Re: Stewart Systems EkoSeal (walt)
     7. 12:01 PM - Re: Newbie (Lagowski Morrow)
     8. 12:08 PM - Re: Then watch this (Lagowski Morrow)
     9. 02:05 PM - Re: aileron nut plates, (Michael Perez)
    10. 02:42 PM - Re: 0-200 powered Piets--- N57TL Tim Mickel ? (Clif Dawson)
    11. 02:52 PM - Re: Alternative epoxy varnish (jimd)
    12. 03:04 PM - Re: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice (jimd)
    13. 06:10 PM - Re: Model A mixture control (H RULE)
    14. 06:34 PM - Re: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish (Rick Holland)
    15. 09:15 PM - Re: Alternative epoxy varnish (jimd)
    16. 11:08 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    17. 11:23 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:54:01 AM PST US
    From: John Smoyer <mox499@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Model A mixture control
    Hi, Guys, Have any of you installed a mixture control on your Piet's Model A engine? With the engine turned 180 degrees from what it would be in a car, I can't figure out how to rig a control that will adjust the mixture from the Piet's cockpit. Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John Smoyer


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:43:16 AM PST US
    From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Newbie
    Gene and Tom, The GN-1 wing to cabane attach brackets go east/west not north/south like the Piet brackets. The wing cannot be moved aft like a Piet wing can. Skip > [Original Message] > From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Date: 1/31/2009 8:09:02 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie > <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> > > Tom. For what it's worth. > I would think long and hard before I extended the motor mount. I believe it > would make your plane very susceptable to ground looping. You might want to > investigate moving your wing back to achieve a good W&B. I would suggest > you may want to put that question out to the group. > Just my thoughts > Gene > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net> > To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:05 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie > > > > <tsbernie@earthlink.net> > > > > > > I did a preliminary weighing on mine with the wings simulated by weights > > and found the same far aft c.g. Now my J-3 mount has to go. I have to > > build a new mount at least six inches longer. > > > > > Tom Bernie > > Gloucester, Mass. > > > > > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Date: 1/30/2009 12:00 AM > > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:16:16 AM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Stewart Systems EkoSeal
    According to their fabric covering manual, they recommend their Eco Seal 1800 for bare wood prior to covering. I see it is a polyurethane. Curious as to how this is different then off the shelf hardware store polyurethane? (Besides the waterborne stuff they claim.)


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:28:39 AM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
    Subject: Re: Newbie
    Thanks Skip, I was unaware of that. Sorry. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd@earthlink.net> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 9:26 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie > > Gene and Tom, > The GN-1 wing to cabane attach brackets go east/west not north/south like > the Piet brackets. The wing cannot be moved aft like a Piet wing can. > Skip > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >> Date: 1/31/2009 8:09:02 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie >> > <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> >> >> Tom. For what it's worth. >> I would think long and hard before I extended the motor mount. I believe > it >> would make your plane very susceptable to ground looping. You might want > to >> investigate moving your wing back to achieve a good W&B. I would suggest >> you may want to put that question out to the group. >> Just my thoughts >> Gene >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Thomas Bernie" <tsbernie@earthlink.net> >> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 1:05 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Newbie >> >> >> > <tsbernie@earthlink.net> >> > >> > >> > I did a preliminary weighing on mine with the wings simulated by > weights >> > and found the same far aft c.g. Now my J-3 mount has to go. I have > to >> > build a new mount at least six inches longer. >> > > >> > Tom Bernie >> > Gloucester, Mass. >> > >> > >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Date: 1/30/2009 12:00 AM >> > >> > >> >> >> >> > > > -- > Checked by AVG. > 12:00 AM > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:50:36 AM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Model A mixture control
    John, I'm not jumping in due to experience, only cause of various bits of knowlege from my Mentor. He locked and safety wired the mixture control on my A-65. He said that you don't have to worry about mixture till 10,000 ft or so. Don't know how high you plan on flying with the "A" Also don't know what type of fuel you'll be using. But he said that if using auto fuel, because it's so volitle<sp>, that it can start gassing off at about 6,000 ft, with a chance of vaporlock. In other words, he was more worried about the auto gas than the mixture control. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: John Smoyer To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:36 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Model A mixture control Hi, Guys, Have any of you installed a mixture control on your Piet's Model A engine? With the engine turned 180 degrees from what it would be in a car, I can't figure out how to rig a control that will adjust the mixture from the Piet's cockpit. Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, John Smoyer


    Message 6


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    Time: 10:52:34 AM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Stewart Systems EkoSeal
    Just keep in mind that the bond of the fabric to the wood means nothing. The bond of fabric to fabric overlap is the strength. Some sew/buy fabric "bags" that they slip over the wing and shrink. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Perez To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 10:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Stewart Systems EkoSeal According to their fabric covering manual, they recommend their Eco Seal 1800 for bare wood prior to covering. I see it is a polyurethane. Curious as to how this is different then off the shelf hardware store polyurethane? (Besides the waterborne stuff they claim.)


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:01:46 PM PST US
    From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Newbie
    Mark, my Piet has a 65 Continental and mount from an Aeronca Chief, no starter, Cub nose bowls and a Cub tank behind the firewall. Finshed weight was 607#.Use of Cub stuff saved me time.--Jim lagowski do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Baxter" <m.baxter@comcast.net> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie > > Greetings all, > This is my first post but I have been following along for several months. > I recently purchased a GN-1 project with steel fuselage on J-3 type gear. > The fuselage was built without variation from the drawings and workmanship > seems top notch. I am a first time builder and intend to adhere to the > plans and 43-13. I intend to use a Continental without accessories. My > goal is to save time where possible and use J-3 components such as engine > mount, tank, and cowl. Can anyone here advise on this line of thinking. > From what I gather I need to be mindful of overall weight and CG. Thanks > in advance and I look forward to getting to know some of you. > Mark Baxter > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=227718#227718 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7:37 AM


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:08:44 PM PST US
    From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Then watch this
    Great looking country!--Jim Lagowski Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 5:06 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this Thanks, Walt. Welcome to the world of flying an RV-4. Just like a Pietenpol, only faster, aerobatic, and not open cockpit. Here is a video taken from my RV-4 over Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia, where I hope to retire this year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwzV-7-MkH0 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of walt Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 4:40 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com; george alexander Subject: Pietenpol-List: Then watch this For a wintery day. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA&feature=related Keep building,,it's worth it!!! do not archive walt evans NX140DL http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 01/30/09 17:31:00


    Message 9


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    Time: 02:05:57 PM PST US
    From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
    Subject: Re: aileron nut plates,
    Thanks Mike. After conversing with Terry, he suggested the exact same thing...wood screws and epoxy. (as did s few on this list.) That will be the route I take as well...as soon as I get my hands on some nut plates.


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:42:39 PM PST US
    From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
    Subject: Re: 0-200 powered Piets--- N57TL Tim Mickel ?
    Where'd this message go for three days?? Look at the date I sent it. I think there was a joke about three days...something about a dog. Clif From: Clif Dawson To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 12:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 0-200 powered Piets--- N57TL Tim Mickel ? The A is 244 lb according to the F+G manual. ----- Original Message -----


    Message 11


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    Time: 02:52:11 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
    From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
    Been doing a lot of epoxy varnishing lately, and I am using a number of Stewart Systems products on my plane. The Biplane forum website had a Skybolt construction manual they offer for $45, and I thought it looked good so I bought it. Their was a whole section on T-88 and Clear Coat, which sounded interesting. The T-88 and Clear Coat are both by System 3, think everyone knows what T-88 is, but the Clear Coat is super low viscosity epoxy varnish, it mixes up 2 to 1, instead of 1 to 1 like T-88. The cool thing is that it is compatible with T-88, so you can varnish, then follow up by using T-88 without having to leave clean wood where you will glue, that kind of thing. Anyway, I thought about using Stewart Systems 1 part polyurethane on wood, but decided that I wanted something that would soak in and strengthen the wood and I have seen a lot of polyurethane's separate and wanted no part of that. The cost of all the 2 part epoxy varnishes is high, so for the areas that were not going to have fabric glued to them I used regular spar varnish. Well, after seeing the difference between doing Clear Coat and regular varnish, I have been considering putting Clear Coat on everything, it is really impressive stuff. Looks almost like bar coat polyurethane, but it sinks in to the wood. I put one thin coat on then make a second coat later and it looks/feels like it is smooth plastic. The first coat kind of disappears except for certain shiny spots, which is why it seems to be sinking in to the wood. I have 4 wing panels to cover (biplane GN-1) the gluing surfaces on and think my quart size Clear Coat will do it, and it was about $38, so it would easily handle a regular wing. Did a google shopping search on it and found that you can get 3 quart size (2 quart bottles of one component and 1 of the other) for just over $100. That should be enough to do a whole plane and if I had not just finished doing the whole thing with spar varnish is what I would do. As to the Stewart Systems stuff; Their glue is great, EkoBond, it works well, doesn't smell and I did my ailerons with it in my dining room and will be doing wings one at a time in my living room, it is that easy to deal with. It is water based and works great so long as it is not super humid, if it is rainy out it takes forever to dry. They have EkoFill which is a latex primer they use that is okay, pricey and I may not use it, I know latex works and the best stuff is about $40 a gal and would give me about $450-500 total in materials going that way, so that is the plan. Their waterborne polyurethane when applied right looks as good as any other polyurethane, but I am not going for the wet look. Before jumping on me about Latex, check out the KC Dawn patrol site, those guys are in my area and have a whole fleet of biplanes finished with Stewart Systems products and Latex. I will try to get some pics posted to show the Clear Coat, its neat. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228068#228068


    Message 12


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    Time: 03:04:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: epoxy varnish, Non standard practice
    From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
    I would rib stitch anyway for other reasons, it holds everything together right by each rib. Les say you whack a duck and break a rib, the stitching would probably hold the rib in about the right place anyway. (We might have to assume the duck was going opposite direction, on a windy day I am not sure Piets can overtake ducks..) however the broken rib by itself wouldn't have much going for it. Try peeling some cloth off a piece of wood that has been glued with fabric glue, in shear it comes off pretty easy, even the good stuff. However the stitches are tough. But here is the other reason I would do it anyway, it is kind of fun to stitch ribs. I wanted to avoid before taking a covering class, but found it was fun. The StaggerWing knot is easy, so are doing individual stitches, some of the other ones are tricky to get right but you only need to learn one way and a whole wing panel takes maybe 4 hours to do. Piet one piece one would take a while, but not much time compared to even varnishing. If you skipped doing the rib lacing, would you be skipping taping over each rib as well? That would seem to be really reducing the amount of material and glue holding everything together. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228069#228069


    Message 13


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    Time: 06:10:14 PM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Model A mixture control
    I have a mixture control on my 8o hp franklin and my AME told me not to mov e it to a leaner position until I get above 3000 ft but she does load up so metimes while taxiing and I have had it quit on me.Never during take off th ough.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: walt <waltdak@ verizon.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, February 1, 2009 1:44:45 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Model A mixture control=0A =0A=0AJohn,=0AI'm not jumping in due to experience, only cause of various b its of knowlege from my Mentor.=0AHe locked and safety wired the mixture co ntrol on my A-65.=0AHe said that you don't have to worry about mixture till 10,000 ft or so.=0ADon't know how high you plan on flying with the "A"=0AA lso don't know what type of fuel you'll be using.=0ABut he said that if usi ng auto fuel, because it's so volitle<sp>, that it can start gassing off at about 6,000 ft, with a chance of vaporlock.=0AIn other words, he was more worried about the auto gas than the mixture control.=0A-=0Awalt evans=0AN X140DL=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: John Smoyer =0ATo: pie tenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 7:36 AM=0ASubj ect: Pietenpol-List: Model A mixture control=0A=0AHi, Guys,=0AHave any of y ou installed a mixture control on your Piet's Model A engine?- With the e ngine turned 180 degrees from what it would be in a car, I can't figure out how to rig a control that will adjust the mixture from the Piet's cockpit. - Any thoughts or recommendations would be greatly appreciated.=0AThanks, =0AJohn Smoyer=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie tenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="ht tp://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www ==============


    Message 14


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    Time: 06:34:39 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
    From: Rick Holland <at7000ft@gmail.com>
    I am also planning on using the Stuart stuff to glue on the fabric then exterior latex paint, one question, how do plan on painting your steel and aluminum? Rick On Sun, Feb 1, 2009 at 3:49 PM, jimd <jlducey@hotmail.com> wrote: > > Been doing a lot of epoxy varnishing lately, and I am using a number of > Stewart Systems products on my plane. The Biplane forum website had a > Skybolt construction manual they offer for $45, and I thought it looked good > so I bought it. Their was a whole section on T-88 and Clear Coat, which > sounded interesting. The T-88 and Clear Coat are both by System 3, think > everyone knows what T-88 is, but the Clear Coat is super low viscosity epoxy > varnish, it mixes up 2 to 1, instead of 1 to 1 like T-88. The cool thing is > that it is compatible with T-88, so you can varnish, then follow up by using > T-88 without having to leave clean wood where you will glue, that kind of > thing. > > Anyway, I thought about using Stewart Systems 1 part polyurethane on wood, > but decided that I wanted something that would soak in and strengthen the > wood and I have seen a lot of polyurethane's separate and wanted no part of > that. The cost of all the 2 part epoxy varnishes is high, so for the areas > that were not going to have fabric glued to them I used regular spar > varnish. > > Well, after seeing the difference between doing Clear Coat and regular > varnish, I have been considering putting Clear Coat on everything, it is > really impressive stuff. Looks almost like bar coat polyurethane, but it > sinks in to the wood. I put one thin coat on then make a second coat later > and it looks/feels like it is smooth plastic. The first coat kind of > disappears except for certain shiny spots, which is why it seems to be > sinking in to the wood. > > I have 4 wing panels to cover (biplane GN-1) the gluing surfaces on and > think my quart size Clear Coat will do it, and it was about $38, so it would > easily handle a regular wing. Did a google shopping search on it and found > that you can get 3 quart size (2 quart bottles of one component and 1 of the > other) for just over $100. That should be enough to do a whole plane and if > I had not just finished doing the whole thing with spar varnish is what I > would do. > > As to the Stewart Systems stuff; Their glue is great, EkoBond, it works > well, doesn't smell and I did my ailerons with it in my dining room and will > be doing wings one at a time in my living room, it is that easy to deal > with. It is water based and works great so long as it is not super humid, if > it is rainy out it takes forever to dry. They have EkoFill which is a latex > primer they use that is okay, pricey and I may not use it, I know latex > works and the best stuff is about $40 a gal and would give me about $450-500 > total in materials going that way, so that is the plan. Their waterborne > polyurethane when applied right looks as good as any other polyurethane, but > I am not going for the wet look. Before jumping on me about Latex, check out > the KC Dawn patrol site, those guys are in my area and have a whole fleet of > biplanes finished with Stewart Systems products and Latex. > > I will try to get some pics posted to show the Clear Coat, its neat. > > Jim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228068#228068 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:15:57 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Alternative epoxy varnish
    From: "jimd" <jlducey@hotmail.com>
    I misspoke earlier, I meant peel not shear, it is easy to peel fabric, it is very hard to pull it off with a shear pull.. Anyway, how am I doing aluminum/steel. I have aluminum trailing edges, believe you are supposed to etch them then coat them with epoxy varnish, then EkoBond. I don't have any steel that is to get covered, with the possible exception of a few steel fittings that are cadmium plated and coated with epoxy varnish, they will be masked for covering then roughed up a little before painting to get paint to stick better. Have an aluminum cowling, it was painted before I took on the project, so I don't know exactly what was done with it. Would love to find a way to make all the fittings/flying wires/exposed turnbuckles look like Brass, but they are not good candidates for faux finishes. Bought a can of Brass paint to experiment with (have some spare parts/cables) but low expectations. Generally anything that will really stick well to the fittings weakens them, like etching/plating/anodizing/powder coating, they all are not a good idea on critical metal parts, from what I have read. Personally, I have had great results on fabric with Stewart Systems Polyurethane (in class, but it amazed me.. looked good) and good with Latex on my own, but have never been happy with the way anything I painted came out on metal, seems easy to get runs/sags or it looks great and then peels later. Those questions are great ones for a teacher when you take a class. Would highly recommend one of the three day classes. Did the Stewart Systems one in Cashmere, WA.. fun, scary adventure (blizzard in mountains when I went) and learned a lot. The pic on this is my little class project, but it came out very good. It is polyurethane. Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228121#228121 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/imag0611_114.jpg


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:08:52 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:23:17 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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