---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/11/09: 41 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:02 AM - Anchorage Alaska Begich Middle School Pietenpol Project Arrived (Rob Stapleton, Jr.) 2. 05:34 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Michael Perez) 3. 05:53 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Bill Church) 4. 06:02 AM - Heel brake pedals (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 06:13 AM - Re: Heel brake pedals (Phillips, Jack) 6. 06:19 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Scott Knowlton) 7. 06:22 AM - brakes (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 8. 06:23 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Ryan Mueller) 9. 06:29 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Ryan Mueller) 10. 06:49 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 11. 06:56 AM - Sorry new subject OT Austin area airports/hangers (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 12. 07:07 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Bill Church) 13. 07:23 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Michael Perez) 14. 07:33 AM - Re: brakes (Michael Perez) 15. 07:35 AM - Re: Re: Heel brake pedals (Michael Perez) 16. 07:50 AM - Gary & Shad's motor mount (Ryan Mueller) 17. 07:54 AM - Re: brakes (Scott Knowlton) 18. 07:54 AM - Re: Heel brake pedals (John Hofmann) 19. 08:27 AM - Re: Heel brake pedals (Michael Perez) 20. 09:33 AM - Re: Sorry new subject OT Austin area airports/hangers (Tim Willis) 21. 10:01 AM - taxi practice available (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 22. 10:13 AM - Re: taxi practice available (Tim Willis) 23. 10:31 AM - Re: taxi practice available (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 24. 11:01 AM - Re: taxi practice available (Tim Willis) 25. 11:12 AM - Re: taxi practice available (Bill Church) 26. 11:23 AM - Re: taxi practice available (Tim Willis) 27. 11:39 AM - Re: taxi practice available (TOM STINEMETZE) 28. 11:45 AM - Re: taxi practice available (Bill Church) 29. 11:54 AM - Re: taxi practice available (TOM STINEMETZE) 30. 12:04 PM - hey buddy, could you check the oil while you're out there ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]) 31. 12:15 PM - Re: taxi practice available (H RULE) 32. 12:21 PM - Re: taxi practice available (Gary Boothe) 33. 12:22 PM - Re: taxi practice available (TOM STINEMETZE) 34. 03:44 PM - Re: taxi practice available (H RULE) 35. 06:38 PM - Re: Heel brake pedals OT Nonstandardization pre WWII (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 36. 06:59 PM - Re: Re: taxi practice available OT (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 37. 07:47 PM - Hand Brake Pictures (Don Emch) 38. 07:49 PM - Re: Hand Brake Pictures (Don Emch) 39. 09:25 PM - Re: taxi practice available (Clif Dawson) 40. 09:25 PM - Re: taxi practice available (Clif Dawson) 41. 09:50 PM - Re: Heel brake pedals OT Nonstandardization pre WWII (mike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:02 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." Subject: Pietenpol-List: Anchorage Alaska Begich Middle School Pietenpol Project Arrived Just to let you know the Aerial Pietenpol project arrived yesterday in Anchorage. Thanks to Oscar Zuniga for donating it, Jeff Scott for crating it, Carlile Transportation Services for transporting it and Alaska Interstate Batteries for unloading the crate by forklift once in Anchorage at the Begich Middle School. CFI, A&P and pilot, Dominic Balappa and I will assess the project on Thursday afternoon when we crack open the crate! More later.. Rob Stapleton Anchorage, AK ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:34:18 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals That is cool Don. I have been thinking about hand brakes, but was stuck on the independent braking idea. I guess two handles...once on the ground a ha nd on each brake and my two feet should be all I need. (throttle from time to time.) I would be interested in how yours is set up. - - ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:53:10 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Michael, Even when on the ground, you're going to need to keep one hand on the stick, since you should always be applying full "up" elevator when taxiing, so the two-handle idea probably isn't going to fly (sorry for the bad pun). There was a list member several years ago that had developed a stick-mounted differential hand brake system, but I don't know if it ever got completed, and if it did, how well it worked. The braking force was to be applied through a motorcycle-type lever, and moving the stick side-to-side would apply more braking power to one side or the other. Sounds like a neat idea - just don't know if it really worked. It may require more squeezing power than the average hand can provide. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals That is cool Don. I have been thinking about hand brakes, but was stuck on the independent braking idea. I guess two handles...once on the ground a hand on each brake and my two feet should be all I need. (throttle from time to time.) I would be interested in how yours is set up. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:02:59 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals Is my reasoning going soft=2C or will different types of brakes work differently with spoked motorcycle-style wheels as opposed to smaller wheels and tires? It would seem like a mechanical drum brake would work well with motorcycle style wheels. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:13:01 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals From: "Phillips, Jack" Did you ever notice historically that airplanes quit using big spoked wheels at about the same time they started using brakes? It takes A LOT of braking torque to stop a big wheel. I've got 8" Cleveland hydraulic brakes on my Pietenpol, with 21" wheels. The brakes are adequate to hold it for a run-up, but won't quite hold it still at full power. If I get on the brakes HARD right after touchdown, it still takes a couple hundred feet to stop the airplane. I don't know that you would find much difference between mechanical or hydraulic brakes. I've flown Mike Cuy's Pietenpol, and he has 19" wheels with mechanical brakes, with about the same effectiveness as mine. They are useful for a run-up and for taxiing and turning tight corners. Really, they are perfectly adequate, but nothing like you get with small wheels. Whatever you use, drum or disc, use the biggest drum or disc you can find. Look at the size of the disc on a Harley. I'll bet those discs are 12" in diameter, and they get excellent stopping power on a vehicle that weighs about what a Pietenpol does (or less) Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:58 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals Is my reasoning going soft, or will different types of brakes work differently with spoked motorcycle-style wheels as opposed to smaller wheels and tires? It would seem like a mechanical drum brake would work well with motorcycle style wheels. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:19:57 AM PST US From: "Scott Knowlton " Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals I'm with Bill on this. Having taught many hours of tailwheel instruction it is my opinion that you need to be prepared to manipulate every control surface on the ground that you would require in the air (that includes the throttle). The easiest airplanes to teach on are those equiped with toe brakes followed by those with heel brakes. Any braking system that removes one or more or your limbs from your primary flight controls will inevitably put a person in a situation where they cannot fully control the airplane at the very moment when it desperatly requires you to do so. This being the case, I would prefer no brakes to a system like that (I've seen more planes with brakes ground loop or leave the runway into the rubarb than ski planes - albeit the rubarb isn't too deep during ski season ;). Just my opinion. Scott knowlton -----Original Message----- From: Bill Church Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Michael, Even when on the ground, you're going to need to keep one hand on the stick, since you should always be applying full "up" elevator when taxiing, so the two-handle idea probably isn't going to fly (sorry for the bad pun). There was a list member several years ago that had developed a stick-mounted differential hand brake system, but I don't know if it ever got completed, and if it did, how well it worked. The braking force was to be applied through a motorcycle-type lever, and moving the stick side-to-side would apply more braking power to one side or the other. Sounds like a neat idea - just don't know if it really worked. It may require more squeezing power than the average hand can provide. Bill C. ---------------- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals That is cool Don. I have been thinking about hand brakes, but was stuck on the independent braking idea. I guess two handles...once on the ground a hand on each brake and my two feet should be all I need. (throttle from time to time.) I would be interested in how yours is set up. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:22:44 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: brakes To me brakes on a Pietenpol are only necessary for engine run-up and to kee p from rolling into another airplane or the gas pumps at slow taxi speeds. If you have to use brakes on takeoffs or landings, yo u're in a bad position somehow. Additionally for every landing and takeoff both hands should never leave th e throttle and stick. A deer crossing the runway on landing---a go around is needed immediately. A guy taxies out in front of you...any number of things like you want to abort a takeoff. I guess it is all what you're used to in braking. For me I installed heel brakes like I was taught to use in my first taildragger--an Aeronca Champ. Anyone who has Cub or Champ time feels comfortable with heel brake s. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:23:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals From: Ryan Mueller Bill is correct in that you should keep a hand on the stick whilst taxiing, although up elevator is not always the proper positioning. Stick back/ailerons neutral for direct headwinds, stick forward/ailerons neutral for direct tailwinds; when it comes to quartering winds, "turn into headwinds, turn away from tailwinds", with the elevator in the appropriate position. Your hand should remain on the throttle as much as practical whilst taxiing, both from a safety standpoint and because you will need to be adjusting your power to maintain a safe, controlled taxi speed. Ryan On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 7:31 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > That is cool Don. I have been thinking about hand brakes, but was stuck on > the independent braking idea. I guess two handles...once on the ground a > hand on each brake and my two feet should be all I need. (throttle from time > to time.) I would be interested in how yours is set up. > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:29:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals From: Ryan Mueller Agreed Scott. I'm pretty sure I recall my CFI saying "Fly the airplane until it's back in the hangar!", or some such thing along those lines... Ryan do not archive On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 8:19 AM, Scott Knowlton wrote: > flyingscott_k@hotmail.com> > > I'm with Bill on this. Having taught many hours of tailwheel instruction > it is my opinion that you need to be prepared to manipulate every control > surface on the ground that you would require in the air (that includes the > throttle). The easiest airplanes to teach on are those equiped with toe > brakes followed by those with heel brakes. Any braking system that removes > one or more or your limbs from your primary flight controls will inevitably > put a person in a situation where they cannot fully control the airplane at > the very moment when it desperatly requires you to do so. This being the > case, I would prefer no brakes to a system like that (I've seen more planes > with brakes ground loop or leave the runway into the rubarb than ski planes > - albeit the rubarb isn't too deep during ski season ;). Just my opinion. > Scott knowlton ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:34 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals There is a possibility that my next duty assignment will be in Austin, Texas. I really like where I have my plane in San Antonio (At 8T8, San Geronimo airpark). I have a private hanger with electricity. It is "only" about 2 hours from Austin. So for a while I could leave my plane there. We have lived in the Austin area (Round Rock and I worked in Austin) before and know that we may have to live in a suburb or outlying community in able to find an affordable house. Can anyone tell me about potential hangers/airports in the Austin Area? And if there might be any open hangers. That will influence where we start our housing search. Blue Skies, Steve Dortch Straight 35 Bonanza 8T8 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:20 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sorry new subject OT Austin area airports/hangers Sorry this should be the new header. Received: from [10.240.32.176] (Forwarded-For: 66.69.38.107, [10.240.32.176]) by mail24.int.ps1.us.army.mil (mshttpd); Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:48:35 -0600 From: 2008; 32bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Language: en Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals X-Accept-Language: en Priority: normal References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit There is a possibility that my next duty assignment will be in Austin, Texas. I really like where I have my plane in San Antonio (At 8T8, San Geronimo airpark). I have a private hanger with electricity. It is "only" about 2 hours from Austin. So for a while I could leave my plane there. We have lived in the Austin area (Round Rock and I worked in Austin) before and know that we may have to live in a suburb or outlying community in able to find an affordable house. Can anyone tell me about potential hangers/airports in the Austin Area? And if there might be any open hangers. That will influence where we start our housing search. Blue Skies, Steve Dortch Straight 35 Bonanza 8T8
________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:02 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Good clarifications, Ryan. Thanks for making that more clear. In any case it seems pretty clear that the pilot needs to keep both hands occupied with things other than brakes, whether in the air or on the ground. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:23 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Bill is correct in that you should keep a hand on the stick whilst taxiing, although up elevator is not always the proper positioning. Stick back/ailerons neutral for direct headwinds, stick forward/ailerons neutral for direct tailwinds; when it comes to quartering winds, "turn into headwinds, turn away from tailwinds", with the elevator in the appropriate position. Your hand should remain on the throttle as much as practical whilst taxiing, both from a safety standpoint and because you will need to be adjusting your power to maintain a safe, controlled taxi speed. Ryan ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:29 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Good point Bill. --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Michael, - Even when on the ground, you're going to need to keep one hand on the stick , since you should always be applying full "up" elevator when taxiing, so t he two-handle idea probably isn't going to fly (sorry for the bad pun). - There was a list member several years ago that had developed a stick-mounte d differential hand brake system, but I don't know if it ever got completed , and if it did, how well it worked. The braking force was to be applied th rough a motorcycle-type lever, and moving the stick side-to-side would appl y more braking power to one side or the other. Sounds like a neat idea - ju st don't know if it really worked. It may require more squeezing power than the average hand can provide. - Bill C. From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:32 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals That is cool Don. I have been thinking about hand brakes, but was stuck on the independent braking idea. I guess two handles...once on the ground a ha nd on each brake and my two feet should be all I need. (throttle from time to time.) I would be interested in how yours is set up. - - ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:20 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: brakes That is what I was referring to but not made clear in my post. I was not pl anning on the brakes other then for holding the plane once stopped or to ai d in maneuvering on the ground. But as Bill pointed out some back pressure is required...if nothing else to keep the elevator from smacking around. I would prefer heel/toe brakes, but was intrigued with the hand brake idea. - Not quite there yet, still need to build left wing, fuse., landing gear , tail, engine mount.... ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:21 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Agreed. - --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Heel brake pedals Good clarifications, Ryan. Thanks for making that more clear. In any case it seems pretty clear that the pilot needs to keep both hands -occupied with things other than brakes, whether in the air or on the gro und. - Bill C. - ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:37 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary & Shad's motor mount From: Ryan Mueller Shad (or whomever may know), Did you guys go with the motor mount per the Pietenpol plans for your Corvair? I didn't think to make a note of that at Brodhead, and I can't tell definitively in any of my pics. Thanks, Ryan ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:22 AM PST US From: Scott Knowlton Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: brakes I think we all tend to over emphasise the amount of breaking we think we ne ed in a small aircraft. The only time you would miss having brakes would b e when you are trying to manoeuvre in a small area or holding the aircraft from creeping during a run-up. A firm application of one wheel brake on a slow taxi along with rudder in the same direction will "unlock" a steerable tailwheel into the castoring mode and allow the aircraft to be turned on a very small radius (looks cool when you arrive at a fly-in breakfast). A s mall tap of a break hear and there on a strong crosswind take-off and landi ng for directional control is the other time that differential brakes come in handy but that is a function that comes with skill and experience and is more often the cause of a runway excursion if not properly executed. I do ubt most of us will be flying our Pietenpols on a day where tapping of brak es on take off or landing is needed so the requirement probably doesn't exi st. Incidentally=2C the elevator is held in the aft position to keep a pos itive force between the tailwheel and the ground or tarmack enabling steeri ng to be the most effective. OK no more two cents from me... Scott Knowlton t: Re: Pietenpol-List: brakesTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com That is what I was referring to but not made clear in my post. I was not pl anning on the brakes other then for holding the plane once stopped or to ai d in maneuvering on the ground. But as Bill pointed out some back pressure is required...if nothing else to keep the elevator from smacking around. I would prefer heel/toe brakes=2C but was intrigued with the hand brake idea. Not quite there yet=2C still need to build left wing=2C fuse.=2C landing gear=2C tail=2C engine mount.... 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D _________________________________________________________________ The new Windows Live Messenger. You don=92t want to miss this. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/products/messenger.aspx ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:23 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals I am going to bite on this one too. Jack makes a great point about wheel size. About this time in aviation history, there were quite a few different methods of actuating brakes before there was a standardization of sorts with heel brakes then toe brakes. I've been in a WACO where the brakes where actuated with the throttle lever. When you needed brake, with your left hand on the throttle, you actually pulled the throttle lever inward, toward the inside of the cockpit to actuate brakes. That was a little weird. There were many Johnson Bar variations as well. I have been in a Stinson Jr. with a Johnson Bar between the seats. One had to move hands all around to pull up on the bar. That one made me uncomfortable. I also saw Heath (I think) where the pilot wore leather gloves and just reached out to grab or rub the wheels for friction. I have gotten to really like heel brakes. Toe brakes on a taildragger, especially if the brakes are good, can easily put you on your nose. They can be pretty too easy to actuate. Heel brakes are out of the way, for the most part, but easy to use. I have expander tube brakes on the Cub which hold me for runup and for maneuvering. That is all I figure I need them for. With vortex generators my landing speed is supposedly 23 mph so I am stopped on my own in a couple hundred feet, even on pavement. Plus, a Cub comes with a built-in headwind. I was passed by a Pietenpol when leaving Brodhead last year. I like being able to keep my attention outside the cockpit on the ground with hand on throttle and stick. Mike P., good thread. I would suggest you get a couple of hours dual in a Cub so you get a feel for heel brakes and have some fun. "I knew she wasn't worth top billing." -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Phillips, Jack wrote: > Did you ever notice historically that airplanes quit using big > spoked wheels at about the same time they started using brakes? It > takes A LOT of braking torque to stop a big wheel. I=92ve got 8=94 > Cleveland hydraulic brakes on my Pietenpol, with 21=94 wheels. The > brakes are adequate to hold it for a run-up, but won=92t quite hold it > still at full power. If I get on the brakes HARD right after > touchdown, it still takes a couple hundred feet to stop the > airplane. I don=92t know that you would find much difference between > mechanical or hydraulic brakes. I=92ve flown Mike Cuy=92s Pietenpol, > and he has 19=94 wheels with mechanical brakes, with about the same > effectiveness as mine. They are useful for a run-up and for taxiing > and turning tight corners. Really, they are perfectly adequate, but > nothing like you get with small wheels. > > Whatever you use, drum or disc, use the biggest drum or disc you can > find. Look at the size of the disc on a Harley. I=92ll bet those > discs are 12=94 in diameter, and they get excellent stopping power on > a vehicle that weighs about what a Pietenpol does (or less) > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > ] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:58 AM > To: Pietenpol List > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals > > Is my reasoning going soft, or will different types of brakes > work differently with spoked motorcycle-style wheels as > opposed to smaller wheels and tires? It would seem like a > mechanical drum brake would work well with motorcycle > style wheels. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain > privileged, proprietary > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, > please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by > you is prohibited. > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - > Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:49 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals Not sure where this thread got started, but I can't take credit for it. It is good stuff! I try to learn all I can on here so that I can build a nice plane. I want brakes, so this info. is all good. - I am sure Mike C. will allow me into the rear cockpit of his plane to pract ice taxing and the use of his brake set up. (I also think he will gladly pa y for the damage I cause as I end up through the nearest hangar...)- From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals I am going to bite on this one too. Jack makes a great point about wheel si ze. About this time in aviation history, there were quite a few different m ethods of actuating brakes before there was a standardization of sorts with heel brakes then toe brakes. I've been in a WACO where the brakes where ac tuated with the throttle lever. When you needed brake, with your left hand on the throttle, you actually pulled the throttle lever inward, toward the inside of the cockpit to actuate brakes. That was a little weird. There wer e many Johnson Bar variations as well. I have been in a Stinson Jr. with a Johnson Bar between the seats. One had to move hands all around to pull up on the bar. That one made me uncomfortable. I also saw Heath (I think) wher e the pilot wore leather gloves and just reached out to grab or rub the whe els for friction. I have gotten to really like heel brakes. Toe brakes on a taildragger, espe cially if the brakes are good, can easily put you on your nose. They can be pretty too easy to actuate. Heel brakes are out of the way, for the most p art, but easy to use. I have expander tube brakes on the Cub which hold me for runup and for maneuvering. That is all I figure I need them for. With v ortex generators my landing speed is supposedly 23 mph so I am stopped on m y own in a couple hundred feet, even on pavement. Plus, a Cub comes with a built-in headwind. I was passed by a Pietenpol when leaving Brodhead last y ear. I like being able to keep my attention outside the cockpit on the grou nd with hand on throttle and stick. Mike P., good thread. I would suggest you get a couple of hours dual in a C ub so you get a feel for heel brakes and have some fun. "I knew she wasn't worth top billing." -john- ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:54 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Sorry new subject OT Austin area airports/hangers Steve, You have to rule out GA hangars at Austin-Bergstrom. They are $3X the former Austin-Mueller airport, and the old Mueller airport is now an industrial park. Other Austin area airports: Georgetown (about 30 mi. N. of downtown) 512.930.3666, paved, new FAA control tower Kittie Hill-- Leander, TX (25 mi.l N. of d.t.) located right off recent excellent Parmer Rd. Extension 512.259.0350 3 grass runways. [Tell Charlie Densford, the airport owner and manager, who you are and that I referred you. Maybe more important is your military status, for Charlie is a retired LTC, US Army aviation, and a great guy.] Lakeway-- 20 mi. northwest of d.t. Austin 512.261.4385, paved. Taylor-- 25 mi. E. of Round Rock-- 512.352.5747, paved. If I were you, I would get on a waiting list at each of these, for hangar space is scarce and sometimes dear. FIFO on each list. Cancel yourself out if you don't move. If available, a T-hangar at Kittie Hill is $165/mo., and at Taylor I think $140/mo. I live outside Georgetown and can recommend it as a place to live. I have a T-hangar at Kittie Hill. Georgetown and Leander are growing rapidly. If you have kids in school, Liberty Hill I.S.D. north of Leander is good, I think better than Georgetown. Taylor and Hutto to the east of town are growing rapidly. Hutto may be the fastest growing town in the USA, maybe 20% a year. Neither Taylor not Hutto offer as good lifestyle values, IMO, as Austin, Georgetown, Leander, etc. , but on a cost/benefit basis, maybe they offer better values per sq.ft. etc., lots of new developments, plagued homebuilders, etc. Not too many foreclosures yet here in the Austin metro. R/E taxes in Williamson County (NW, N, NE, E of Austin) are cheaper than Travis County (Austin). Kevin McArthy on this board may be able to help, and offer different perspectives as well. You can call me if you like. Tim in central TX mobile 512.864.4158 DO NOT ARCHIVE -----Original Message----- >From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" >Sent: Feb 11, 2009 8:55 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Sorry new subject OT Austin area airports/hangers > >Sorry this should be the new header. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:01:55 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available I will allow anyone who comes to the Cleveland area of Ohio to taxi my plan e from the back seat to get used to the heel brakes. I won't take responsibility for any damage though to the pla ne or surroundings. Please contact Karen Cuy for more information and taxi-practice times after I croak and you beco me the new owner Best regards, M. Cuy President, Pietenpol Taxi Training & Heel Brake Academy & Wayward House for Female Wi ngwalkers Do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:09 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Mike, Pls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote waywardness-- metric and stats. Thx. Tim in central TX Do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" >Sent: Feb 11, 2009 1:00 PM >To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > >I will allow anyone who comes to the Cleveland area of Ohio to taxi my plane from the back seat to get used to the >heel brakes. I won't take responsibility for any damage though to the plane or surroundings. Please contact Karen >Cuy for more information and taxi-practice times after I croak and you become the new owner > >Best regards, > >M. Cuy >President, >Pietenpol Taxi Training & Heel Brake Academy & Wayward House for Female Wingwalkers > > >Do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:31:31 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Tim, My Human Resource representative Helen Wait told me that it is not only illegal to distribute sensitive personal information, photos, or copies of applications from our wingwalker database but unethical according to the National Labor Relations Board. Wish I could be of more help. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:01:13 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Mike, Drats!!! BTW,was that "Helen,Wait!" the former slipshod wingwalker? Tim do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" >Sent: Feb 11, 2009 1:30 PM >To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > > > > >Tim, > >My Human Resource representative Helen Wait told me that it is not only illegal to >distribute sensitive personal information, photos, or copies of applications from our wingwalker >database but unethical according to the National Labor Relations Board. Wish I could be of >more help. > >Mike C. > >do not archive > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:12:30 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Not sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (really crappy) picture of a wingwalker in a plain brown envelope: Do not archive this either -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available --> Mike, Pls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote waywardness-- metric and stats. Thx. Tim in central TX Do not archive ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:11 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Why Bill, it's even a crappy brown envelope. It's exactly what I wanted; I'll put it over the mantle. BTW, how many milk bottles would fit in the envelope? do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: Bill Church >Sent: Feb 11, 2009 2:11 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > > >Not sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (really crappy) picture of a >wingwalker in a plain brown envelope: > > > >Do not archive this either > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis >Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:13 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > >--> > >Mike, > >Pls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote >waywardness-- metric and stats. Thx. > >Tim in central TX > >Do not archive > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:39:42 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Why does your e-mail always show up just as my boss walks up behind me? Tom S. >>> "Bill Church" 2/11/2009 1:11 PM >>> Not sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (really crappy) picture of a wingwalker in a plain brown envelope: <<...>> Do not archive this either -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available --> Mike, Pls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote waywardnes s-- metric and stats. Thx. Tim in central TX Do not archive ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:45:19 AM PST US From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Tom, You need to develop another set of eyes (in the back of your head). Sorry for the grief. (no stupid pictures attached) BC do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 2:38 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Why does your e-mail always show up just as my boss walks up behind me? Tom S. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:54:39 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Bill: >From what I hear, that would also be a benefit to help avoid bird strikes in the Piet. Tom S. >>> "Bill Church" 2/11/2009 1:44 PM >>> Tom, You need to develop another set of eyes (in the back of your head). Sorry for the grief. (no stupid pictures attached) BC do not archive ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:38 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: hey buddy, could you check the oil while you're out there ? We've got to try this at Brodhead this summer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF19F51xkr4&feature=related do not archive ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:15:27 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available If you can;put little pirch holdings on your wings and then when the birds do come along encourage them to hang on and give you a lift;-]-=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: TOM STINEMETZE =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, February 11, 20 09 2:53:18 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available=0A=0A =0ABill:=0A-=0AFrom what I hear, that would also be a benefit to help avo id bird strikes in the Piet.=0A-=0ATom S.=0A=0A=0A>>> "Bill Church" 2/11/2009 1:44 PM >>>=0A=0ATom,=0A-=0AYou need to dev elop another set of eyes (in the back of your head).=0ASorry for the grief. =0A(no stupid pictures attached)=0A-=0ABC=0A-=0Ado not archive=0A-=0A -======================== ================== ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:21:25 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Bosses can detect that guilty look, just by looking at the back of your ears. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) (12 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:38 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Why does your e-mail always show up just as my boss walks up behind me? Tom S. >>> "Bill Church" 2/11/2009 1:11 PM >>> Not sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (really crappy) picture of a wingwalker in a plain brown envelope: <<...>> Do not archive this either -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available --> Mike, Pls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote waywardness-- metric and stats. Thx. Tim in central TX Do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:43 PM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Kind of like when we used to superglue flies to our tiny balsa airplanes for motive power. (Whoops - sorry - that wasn't me.) Tom S. do not archive >>> H RULE 2/11/2009 2:14 PM >>> If you can;put little pirch holdings on your wings and then when the birds do come along encourage them to hang on and give you a lift;-] ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:56 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available You can work you butt off all day long and the minute you slack off there t hey are.I just put pictures of naked women up on my computer and it takes t heir attention off me!!!!=0A=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________ ____________________=0AFrom: Gary Boothe =0ATo: piete npol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 3:20:24 PM=0AS ubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available=0A=0A=0ABosses can dete ct that guilty look, just by looking at the back of your ears.=0AGary Booth e=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion=0ATail done, working on f uselage (endless metal parts!)=0A(12 ribs down=85)=0ADo not archive=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0A=0AFrom:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matron ics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM STINEMETZE=0ASent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:38 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-l ist@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available=0A -=0AWhy does your e-mail always show up just as my boss walks up behind m e?=0A-=0ATom S.=0A=0A=0A>>> "Bill Church" 2/11/2 009 1:11 PM >>>=0A=0A=0ANot sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (real ly crappy) picture of a wingwalker in a plain brown envelope:=0A<<...>> =0A Do not archive this either=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-piete npol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronic s.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis=0ASent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:13 PM =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi pra timothywillis@earthlink.net>=0AMike,=0APls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote waywardness-- metric and stats.- Thx.=0ATim in central TX=0ADo not archive=0A -=0A -=0Ahttp://www.matronics.com/Nav igator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahttp://www.matronics. == ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:30 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals OT Nonstandardization pre WWII Along with nonstandardization of brakes were several things we take for granted. IE Push with your right foot to go right, Push with the left to go left. Some planes were rigged like a Bicycle, push with your right to go left (steer left to go left) Etc Push throttle to go fast Vs Pull throttle to go fast ( Pre WWII French I think) Wing warping and using your hips to steer (Wright Brothers) I sure like some standardization Blue Skies Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals > I am going to bite on this one too. Jack makes a great point about > > wheel size. About this time in aviation history, there were quite > a > few different methods of actuating brakes before there was a > standardization of sorts with heel brakes then toe brakes. I've > been > in a WACO where the brakes where actuated with the throttle lever. > > When you needed brake, with your left hand on the throttle, you > actually pulled the throttle lever inward, toward the inside of > the > cockpit to actuate brakes. That was a little weird. There were > many > Johnson Bar variations as well. I have been in a Stinson Jr. with > a > Johnson Bar between the seats. One had to move hands all around to > > pull up on the bar. That one made me uncomfortable. I also saw > Heath > (I think) where the pilot wore leather gloves and just reached out > to > grab or rub the wheels for friction. > > I have gotten to really like heel brakes. Toe brakes on a > taildragger, > especially if the brakes are good, can easily put you on your > nose. > They can be pretty too easy to actuate. Heel brakes are out of the > > way, for the most part, but easy to use. I have expander tube > brakes > on the Cub which hold me for runup and for maneuvering. That is > all I > figure I need them for. With vortex generators my landing speed is > > supposedly 23 mph so I am stopped on my own in a couple hundred > feet, > even on pavement. Plus, a Cub comes with a built-in headwind. I > was > passed by a Pietenpol when leaving Brodhead last year. I like > being > able to keep my attention outside the cockpit on the ground with > hand > on throttle and stick. > > Mike P., good thread. I would suggest you get a couple of hours > dual > in a Cub so you get a feel for heel brakes and have some fun. > > "I knew she wasn't worth top billing." > > -john- > > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 > Madison, WI 53718 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > > On Feb 11, 2009, at 8:11 AM, Phillips, Jack wrote: > > > Did you ever notice historically that airplanes quit using big > > spoked wheels at about the same time they started using brakes? > It > > takes A LOT of braking torque to stop a big wheel. Ive got 8 > > Cleveland hydraulic brakes on my Pietenpol, with 21 wheels. > The > > brakes are adequate to hold it for a run-up, but wont quite > hold it > > still at full power. If I get on the brakes HARD right after > > touchdown, it still takes a couple hundred feet to stop the > > airplane. I dont know that you would find much difference > between > > mechanical or hydraulic brakes. Ive flown Mike Cuys > Pietenpol, > > and he has 19 wheels with mechanical brakes, with about the > same > > effectiveness as mine. They are useful for a run-up and for > taxiing > > and turning tight corners. Really, they are perfectly adequate, > but > > nothing like you get with small wheels. > > > > Whatever you use, drum or disc, use the biggest drum or disc you > can > > find. Look at the size of the disc on a Harley. Ill bet those > > > discs are 12 in diameter, and they get excellent stopping power > on > > a vehicle that weighs about what a Pietenpol does (or less) > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > ] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 8:58 AM > > To: Pietenpol List > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals > > > > Is my reasoning going soft, or will different types of brakes > > work differently with spoked motorcycle-style wheels as > > opposed to smaller wheels and tires? It would seem like a > > mechanical drum brake would work well with motorcycle > > style wheels. > > > > Oscar Zuniga > > Air Camper NX41CC > > San Antonio, TX > > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > > > > > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > http://forums.matronics.com > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > > _________________________________________________ > > > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may > contain > > privileged, proprietary > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in > error, > > please notify the sender > > immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email > by > > you is prohibited. > > > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - > > Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese > > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 06:59:28 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available OT Last week when the boss asked me why I wasn't working I told him "because I didn't see you coming!" Old joke but still funny ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > Bosses can detect that guilty look, just by looking at the back of > yourears. > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, Ca. > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, working on fuselage (endless metal parts!) > > (12 ribs down.) > > Do not archive > > _____ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM > STINEMETZE > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:38 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > > > > Why does your e-mail always show up just as my boss walks up > behind me? > > > > Tom S. > > > > >>> "Bill Church" < 2/11/2009 1:11 PM >>> > > > > Not sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (really crappy) picture of a > wingwalker in a plain brown envelope: > > <> > > Do not archive this either > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ > > mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis > > Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 1:13 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available > > --> < > > Mike, > > Pls send pix of wingwalkers in plain brown envelope; also denote > waywardness-- metric and stats. Thx. > > Tim in central TX > > Do not archive > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:33 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand Brake Pictures From: "Don Emch" This is how I mounted my motorcycle hand brakes up under the rear panel. In a sharp taxi turn I can grab one of them to help swing the tail. In a run up I can grab the left one with my middle finger and the right one with my thumb of my right hand while my left hand does the throttle. I rarely use them for anything other than that and taxiing around stuff on pavement because the tall high pressure wheels do tend to roll. I have never used them for landing. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229916#229916 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0865_213.jpg ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:46 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Hand Brake Pictures From: "Don Emch" Here is a shot of the drum brakes... Don E. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229918#229918 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/dscn0864_438.jpg ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:22 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available RE: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice availableTim should glue a couple of mirrors to the upper corners of his monitor. Oh, Hi Tim. We were just talking about you. :-) Clif Be Yourself! Everyone Else Is Taken Not sure why you want this, Tim, but here's a (really crappy) picture of a wingwalker in a plain brown envelope: <<...>> Do not archive this either ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:43 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: taxi practice available Used to? Clif Kind of like when we used to superglue flies to our tiny balsa airplanes for motive power. (Whoops - sorry - that wasn't me.) Tom S. do not archive ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 09:50:29 PM PST US From: "mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals OT Nonstandardization pre WWII When I push with either foot on my bicycle, it goes forward. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 6:38 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Heel brake pedals OT Nonstandardization pre WWII --> Along with nonstandardization of brakes were several things we take for granted. IE Push with your right foot to go right, Push with the left to go left. Some planes were rigged like a Bicycle, push with your right to go left (steer left to go left) Etc Push throttle to go fast Vs Pull throttle to go fast ( Pre WWII French I think) Wing warping and using your hips to steer (Wright Brothers) I sure like some standardization Blue Skies Steve D [snip] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.