Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 02/28/09


Total Messages Posted: 8



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 05:35 AM - Motivational Pictures (Don Emch)
     2. 06:14 AM - sorry for the large pics (walt)
     3. 08:32 AM - Re: sorry for the large pics (Dick N.)
     4. 12:57 PM - Newbie with questions (jimbir)
     5. 02:09 PM - Re: Newbie with questions (Gene Rambo)
     6. 04:14 PM - Re: sorry for the large pics (walt)
     7. 04:15 PM - Re: Newbie with questions (jimbir)
     8. 04:32 PM - Re: sorry for the large pics (Dick N.)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 05:35:00 AM PST US
    Subject: Motivational Pictures
    From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
    Thanks for the cool pics Walt! For some reason, every time I see this picture it makes me want to get out and fly! It's of Andrew King giving a ride in my Piet last year at Brodhead. Problem is, it looks like nobody is flying! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232402#232402 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_8035_439.jpg


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:14:23 AM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: sorry for the large pics
    do not archive walt evans NX140DL


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:32:09 AM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: sorry for the large pics
    Hi Walt I noticed on the large pic, a very large gap between the horiz stabs and elevators. If you haven't already done it, try sealing that gap with a piece of duct tape. You might be surprised at how much it changes flying and ability to get tail up on takeoff. I realize there might be clear sealer already or you may have already tried this. It's just a thought. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: sorry for the large pics do not archive walt evans NX140DL


    Message 4


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    Time: 12:57:31 PM PST US
    Subject: Newbie with questions
    From: "jimbir" <jimbir@yahoo.com>
    Please let me introduce myself. My name is Jim Birke. I am a member of the Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum in Niagara Falls NY. We are about the preservation of the history of aviation in western NY. Such names as Bell, Curtiss, Fleet, Consolidated, Etc. We are also in possession of a partially completed air camper which was to us donated by the wife of the gentleman who started the project but passed away a few years ago. The museum has asked a couple of us to see if we could complete it. We have no plans to make it airworthy however, we are taking great pains to carefully build it to the original plans and make a show piece of it. I have been given the position of the go-to guy and, if you don't mind, I'll be regaling you folks with questions from time to time. The 1st question is in two parts: A and B The flying struts have been completed and the attachment points have been installed on the fuselage the attachment brackets on the wing spars are not installed. The ribs are glued to the spars and we have temporary drag and anti-drag "wires" made of twine installed to keep the wing from racking if we have to move it. BTW it's a three piece wing. The center section is finished and we are working on the LH wing. Part A. It looks like, in order to install the flying strut brackets on the wings and establish a dihedral of approximately 1 deg. at the same time, we have to mount the wing on the plane, get the dihedral set up, and let the flying struts determine the placement of the brackets on the wing. I know there are dimensions on the plans but, since there are no adjustments anywhere, I am not comfortable relying on them. Am I correct with this train of thought? Part B. In order to mount the wing, we have to mount the center section. In all the photos I've seen of finished Piets, There are two diagonal braces that appear to be running from the top of the forward center section struts forward to a point just above the firewall. These appear to be absolutely necessary to keep the center section in place fore and aft. The upper engine mount plates on our plane have what appears to be an addition to them to attach the lower end of the diagonal braces. (See attached photo.) This is not called out on the original plans nor are the diagonal braces. I need to find out how the diagonal braces are constructed and the dimensions of them and the method of attaching them to the upper end of the center section struts. I will be grateful for any and all help You can provide. Thanks, Jim B. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232501#232501 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/upper_engine_mount_bracket_186.jpg


    Message 5


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    Time: 02:09:48 PM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <generambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: Newbie with questions
    Jim: Part A: If the struts are the correct length, your method may work. The way it is done is the wings, with the fitting installed in the correct position, are installed on the airplane, and the struts are built to the length needed. It is not easy to imagine how he built the struts first. The one degree dihedral is not in the plans (neither is the 3-piece wing), it is added by most folks for flying stability. If you are building for display, you could make the wing flat so that it looks more like the original one-piece wing. Part B: The diagonal strut you refer to is an after-market modification. The original plans have an X of wires between the cabane struts to hold the center section stable fore and aft. Most people leave off those wires in favor of the diagonal strut to make front cockpit access easier. If your airplane is built for them, the top engine mount fittings will have ears sticking up for that strut to attach to. If not, it would be more original and easier anyway to install the cables. I am in Buffalo frequently with my job, and would love to see your project the next time I am there. Gene Rambo frantically building for Brodhead ----- Original Message ----- From: jimbir<mailto:jimbir@yahoo.com> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:56 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Newbie with questions <jimbir@yahoo.com<mailto:jimbir@yahoo.com>> Please let me introduce myself. My name is Jim Birke. I am a member of the Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum in Niagara Falls NY. We are about the preservation of the history of aviation in western NY. Such names as Bell, Curtiss, Fleet, Consolidated, Etc. We are also in possession of a partially completed air camper which was to us donated by the wife of the gentleman who started the project but passed away a few years ago. The museum has asked a couple of us to see if we could complete it. We have no plans to make it airworthy however, we are taking great pains to carefully build it to the original plans and make a show piece of it. I have been given the position of the go-to guy and, if you don't mind, I'll be regaling you folks with questions from time to time. The 1st question is in two parts: A and B The flying struts have been completed and the attachment points have been installed on the fuselage the attachment brackets on the wing spars are not installed. The ribs are glued to the spars and we have temporary drag and anti-drag "wires" made of twine installed to keep the wing from racking if we have to move it. BTW it's a three piece wing. The center section is finished and we are working on the LH wing. Part A. It looks like, in order to install the flying strut brackets on the wings and establish a dihedral of approximately 1 deg. at the same time, we have to mount the wing on the plane, get the dihedral set up, and let the flying struts determine the placement of the brackets on the wing. I know there are dimensions on the plans but, since there are no adjustments anywhere, I am not comfortable relying on them. Am I correct with this train of thought? Part B. In order to mount the wing, we have to mount the center section. In all the photos I've seen of finished Piets, There are two diagonal braces that appear to be running from the top of the forward center section struts forward to a point just above the firewall. These appear to be absolutely necessary to keep the center section in place fore and aft. The upper engine mount plates on our plane have what appears to be an addition to them to attach the lower end of the diagonal braces. (See attached photo.) This is not called out on the original plans nor are the diagonal braces. I need to find out how the diagonal braces are constructed and the dimensions of them and the method of attaching them to the upper end of the center section struts. I will be grateful for any and all help You can provide. Thanks, Jim B. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232501#232501<http://forums .matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232501#232501> Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/upper_engine_mount_bracket_186.jpg<htt p://forums.matronics.com//files/upper_engine_mount_bracket_186.jpg> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:14:37 PM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: sorry for the large pics
    Dick, I haven't had a problem with that control. Maybe I'd see a difference if I did do the gap seal. But it's not like the pitch control/response is sluggish. But thanks for the tip walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick N. To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: sorry for the large pics Hi Walt I noticed on the large pic, a very large gap between the horiz stabs and elevators. If you haven't already done it, try sealing that gap with a piece of duct tape. You might be surprised at how much it changes flying and ability to get tail up on takeoff. I realize there might be clear sealer already or you may have already tried this. It's just a thought. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: sorry for the large pics do not archive walt evans NX140DL


    Message 7


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    Time: 04:15:53 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Newbie with questions
    From: "jimbir" <jimbir@yahoo.com>
    Thanks Gene. He apparently built the flying struts to the dimensions on the plans. We have a Pietenpol drawing showing the construction of the wing center section and the treatment of the butt ends of the outer wings. It has a later date on it which I can't recall at the moment. I noticed the right side cross wires on the plans, but I'd say the diagonal braces would be much more effective. You have my email address. I will be more than happy to show you the Piet when you're in town. Give me a days notice. You'll also get to see the resurrection of a 1917 Curtiss JN-4 that we're working on. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=232521#232521


    Message 8


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    Time: 04:32:08 PM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: sorry for the large pics
    Hi again Walt It's worth a try. When I did mine, I gained 2 mph, tail was much easier and faster to get up on T.O. roll, and control response much better on approach at slow speed. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 6:13 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: sorry for the large pics Dick, I haven't had a problem with that control. Maybe I'd see a difference if I did do the gap seal. But it's not like the pitch control/response is sluggish. But thanks for the tip walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Dick N. To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:28 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: sorry for the large pics Hi Walt I noticed on the large pic, a very large gap between the horiz stabs and elevators. If you haven't already done it, try sealing that gap with a piece of duct tape. You might be surprised at how much it changes flying and ability to get tail up on takeoff. I realize there might be clear sealer already or you may have already tried this. It's just a thought. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: sorry for the large pics do not archive walt evans NX140DL href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c




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