---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/04/09: 47 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:44 AM - Re: cabane brace struts (Wizzard187@aol.com) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: cabane brace struts (Phillips, Jack) 3. 05:51 AM - cowling questions (Douwe Blumberg) 4. 05:51 AM - cabane brace struts (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 06:12 AM - Re: cowling questions (Phillips, Jack) 6. 06:20 AM - Re: cowling questions (Jim Markle) 7. 06:33 AM - Techline Turbo X ceramic coating (Oscar Zuniga) 8. 07:17 AM - Re: cowling questions (Bill Church) 9. 07:26 AM - Re: cowling questions (Richard Schreiber) 10. 07:44 AM - attaching the aluminum to the fuselage sides (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 11. 07:44 AM - another way for access: cowling questions (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 12. 08:33 AM - Re: attaching the aluminum to the fuselage sides (Richard Schreiber) 13. 09:04 AM - Re: cowling questions (Phillips, Jack) 14. 09:04 AM - cabane brace struts - poll (Bill Church) 15. 09:11 AM - Re: cabane brace struts - poll (Richard Schreiber) 16. 09:23 AM - Re: cowling questions (Richard Schreiber) 17. 09:41 AM - Re: 80th Anniversary Fly-in at OSH (shad bell) 18. 10:17 AM - Begich Middle School Thanks Oscar Zuniga (Rob Stapleton, Jr.) 19. 10:20 AM - Brodhead 2008 (Patrick Panzera) 20. 10:37 AM - Re: cabane brace struts - poll (Phillips, Jack) 21. 10:38 AM - Richard's straight-axel gear (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 22. 11:21 AM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (H RULE) 23. 11:42 AM - Re: Richard's straight-axel gear (Richard Schreiber) 24. 11:56 AM - wire wheel weights (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 25. 01:17 PM - Re: cabane brace struts (Michael Silvius) 26. 01:17 PM - Re: cabane brace struts (Michael Silvius) 27. 02:48 PM - control horn attachment (Richard Schreiber) 28. 03:09 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Owen Davies) 29. 03:09 PM - Re: control horn attachment (Ed G.) 30. 04:22 PM - Re: control horn attachment (johnwoods@westnet.com.au) 31. 04:23 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Ryan Mueller) 32. 04:33 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Owen Davies) 33. 04:46 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Jack Phillips) 34. 04:52 PM - Continuing on the elevator cable issue (Scott Schreiber) 35. 05:08 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Patrick Panzera) 36. 05:10 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (amsafetyc@aol.com) 37. 05:19 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Ryan Mueller) 38. 05:19 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Jim Ash) 39. 05:20 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Ryan Mueller) 40. 05:28 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Jim Ash) 41. 05:34 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (John Hofmann) 42. 05:39 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (amsafetyc@aol.com) 43. 05:50 PM - Re: cowling questions (Clif Dawson) 44. 06:14 PM - Re: control horn attachment (Richard Schreiber) 45. 06:46 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (Owen Davies) 46. 07:36 PM - Re: Brodhead 2008 (John Hofmann) 47. 11:42 PM - Re: cabane brace struts (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:14 AM PST US From: Wizzard187@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts Pieters, I have a little experience with cabane braces. I made my first flight on Sep. 20 08. off my strip on my farm which is 50 foot wide and half mile long. I spent 8 years building this modified GN-l with probably too many extras. I weigh 230 so need extra weight up front. My flight weight was 1050. I climbed at about 400 feet per minute and 60 mph per the airspeed. It flew tail low with the stick in my gut. I flew the pattern, got over some trees and was right where I wanted to be; landed and cannot remember the touch down but it must have been pretty good or I would remember it. I drifted into the tall thin (6 ft) government acres which I had done in taxi test making 180 turns with not a problem. Just as I came out, at a very slow speed over we went. I have a fuel tank behind the engine so no problem there. I had a hard time getting my weight off the shoulder straps to slide out. I think with stronger braces it would have just gone up on the nose. I have a joint in the top of my cabanes for moving the wing. The worst part is I had a Beech Roby veriable pitch prop that I bought for $850 and two new blades will cost me $2000. My cg was at 28 percent and I had 160 lbs on the tail wheel while I was in it. Experts tell me, down thrust on the engine would help on the tail low flight. So far I am waiting for new insperation to start the rebuild. Ken Conrad in cool Iowa PS I would send pictures but I don't know how. **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DfebemailfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:05 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts From: "Phillips, Jack" Clif, do you mean like these pictures show? Cabane Struts 2 shows the diagonal strut attachment to the top of the forward cabane strut on my airplane. Note that the diagonal strut is basically inline with the attachment to the cabane and the cabane attachment to the wing fitting Cabane Strut - Front 1 shows how I made the fitting for the cabane strut. Note that this fitting carries the attachment of the diagonal strut straight to the wing attach fitting, so there is no tendency for a compression load on the diagonal strut to cause the cabane strut to buckle. Cabane Strut - Front 2 shows how this fitting is welded into the top of the cabane strut, capturing the bushing that attaches to the wing attach fitting. I'm sure there are other ways to accomplish the same thing. For what it's worth, when I had a forced landing in my Pietenpol and broke the axle, I drug the right wingtip, putting substantial loads on the diagonal braces and the cabane struts and roll wires, with no damage (other than to the wingtip and the aileron on the right wing). Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif Dawson Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts The most important feature of this particular setup is that the top mount is significantly below the wing mouting bolt. There is NO proper triangulation. Therefore any untoward stress is, as is shown in the picture, going to bend the cabane resulting in the breakage you see. If those diagonals were bolted at or VERY near the wing mount bolt with the centerline lined up with that bolt any damage would have been significantly less. Any such strut can be a lot smaller than appears adequate if the line of tension and compression is directly down it's centerline. Clif That's all the information we are given regarding the diagonal braces. The rest is up to the builder to figure out. We have no details regarding the brackets at the top of the cabanes, or how they are attached, or what they are attached to. Since there is no official design for this component, it is impossible to say that it is or isn't sufficient. Bill C. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:44 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions My question is about fabricating the cockpit cowlings with the cabane holes in them. It appears that if I cut the holes for the cabanes as holes, and not "slots", I can never remove the sheet metal without removing the cabanes, which means removing the center section and wings. Am I right? If I cut those holes as "slots", I'd only have to remove the cross bracing and aileron cables, then I could jockey the cowling off without having to remove everything else. What have you guys done, and in your experiences, does one ever need to remove those cowlings? Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:55 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts Not to beat this subject to death but to add to what Clif wrote about triangulation=2C in fact William's Piet did have the cabane brace struts attached at=2C or very near=2C the top of the cabane struts and this places the cabanes and the brace struts in compression without introducing any side loading on the cabane to induce buckling. Look at the bottom two pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html and you'll see that the braces on William's Piet continued up into the leading edge of the wing to attach at the cabane attach points. A similar and very nice setup appears on some of the UK Piets=2C such as Alan James' superb G-BUCO: http://www.pietenpolclub.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=4&pos=4 Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:29 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions From: "Phillips, Jack" I made holes in the cowling for the cabane struts and diagonals, but I've got a baggage compartment door that gives me access to the inside of the cowling. See attached photos: If you don't have easy access to the interior of the cowling, I think it would be difficult to bolt the cabane struts in place. I have not had any occasion to want to remove the cowling. One thing to consider (which I didn't think of), is that the larger you make these openings, the more rain you will get in the airplane when it is parked outside in a storm. I know everyone thinks their plane will be in a hangar, but if you leave it tied down at Oshkosh for a week, I guarantee it will get rained on. Mine went through a pretty horrific thunderstorm at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum last summer (see the article in February's Sport Aviation, with a pic of my plane on page 78). After such a storm, I typically have about 1/2" of water in the floorboards, even though I have rain-tight cockpit covers. The water comes in around the cabanes. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:39 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions My question is about fabricating the cockpit cowlings with the cabane holes in them. It appears that if I cut the holes for the cabanes as holes, and not "slots", I can never remove the sheet metal without removing the cabanes, which means removing the center section and wings. Am I right? If I cut those holes as "slots", I'd only have to remove the cross bracing and aileron cables, then I could jockey the cowling off without having to remove everything else. What have you guys done, and in your experiences, does one ever need to remove those cowlings? Douwe _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:20:47 AM PST US From: "Jim Markle" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions I think the slots look just fine and will be a LOT less trouble when installing/removing/reinstalling/removing again/etc/etc :-) >From my build log on mykitplane.com, here's what I did: http://www.mykitplane.com/TaxiWay/TheHangar/PlaneManager/buildLog.cfm?BuildLogID=2127&PlaneID=52&Menu=BuildLog Not exactly the way I wanted to do it but a lot faster build and probably won't make much difference in the long run. jm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:38 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > > My question is about fabricating the cockpit cowlings with the cabane > holes > in them. It appears that if I cut the holes for the cabanes as holes, and > not "slots", I can never remove the sheet metal without removing the > cabanes, which means removing the center section and wings. Am I right? > > If I cut those holes as "slots", I'd only have to remove the cross bracing > and aileron cables, then I could jockey the cowling off without having to > remove everything else. > > What have you guys done, and in your experiences, does one ever need to > remove those cowlings? > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:33:06 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Techline Turbo X ceramic coating Mark Langford has used Techline Coatings' "Turbo X" ceramic coating on his exhaust stacks. It only comes in black and it is available from Aircraft Spruce. Techline also makes a product called "ColorGard" that comes in colors but I have not been able to find a retail outlet for the CGW "ColorGard-White" product. Does anyone know where I could get a 4oz. retail quantity of this? Thanks. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:17:54 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions From: "Bill Church" Here's a neat solution to the "problem". A small, close-fitting, removable coverplate can be attached to the surface of the cowling, which will cover up a more generous hole or slot in the cowling. It's actually much less obvious than you think it would be. As usual, here's a photo which is worth way more than 1000 more of my words trying to explain what I'm trying to describe: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Tim%20Mickel/DSCF0155.JPG Bill C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:26:41 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions Jack I was wondering if you screwed your cowling directly into the filler strips with wood screws or used brass wood inserts ala Frank Pavliga and others? Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN > [Original Message] > From: Phillips, Jack > To: > Date: 3/4/2009 8:22:15 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > I made holes in the cowling for the cabane struts and diagonals, but > I've got a baggage compartment door that gives me access to the inside > of the cowling. See attached photos: > > If you don't have easy access to the interior of the cowling, I think it > would be difficult to bolt the cabane struts in place. I have not had > any occasion to want to remove the cowling. > > One thing to consider (which I didn't think of), is that the larger you > make these openings, the more rain you will get in the airplane when it > is parked outside in a storm. I know everyone thinks their plane will > be in a hangar, but if you leave it tied down at Oshkosh for a week, I > guarantee it will get rained on. Mine went through a pretty horrific > thunderstorm at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum last summer (see the > article in February's Sport Aviation, with a pic of my plane on page > 78). After such a storm, I typically have about 1/2" of water in the > floorboards, even though I have rain-tight cockpit covers. The water > comes in around the cabanes. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe > Blumberg > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:39 AM > To: pietenpolgroup > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > > > My question is about fabricating the cockpit cowlings with the cabane > holes > in them. It appears that if I cut the holes for the cabanes as holes, > and > not "slots", I can never remove the sheet metal without removing the > cabanes, which means removing the center section and wings. Am I right? > > If I cut those holes as "slots", I'd only have to remove the cross > bracing > and aileron cables, then I could jockey the cowling off without having > to > remove everything else. > > What have you guys done, and in your experiences, does one ever need to > remove those cowlings? > > Douwe > > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:15 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: attaching the aluminum to the fuselage sides Hi Richard, I'll jump in prior to Jack to tell you how I attached my instrument cover a luminum. I used cap strip material to hold the fabric off of nuts, bolt he ads, and such on all four corners of the fuselage and just screwed my alumi num into the edge treatment with stainless steel truss/Phillips round head screws with thin nylon washers on them so you don't nick up the paint. I didn't know that Frank Pavilga had those brass inserts but he might. When I asked Frank I said 'what happens when you strip one of your wood screws out if you remove, install too many times or over-torque (as some of us.... like me, are very prone to doing) and he said you just dip a toothpick in T -88 and stick it in the screw hole, break it off then you've got a fresh th read you can make and not have a loose screw. I personally don't like the idea of putting in brass or other inserts to ho ld instrument cover aluminum panels in place because you're making Swiss ch eese along the whole top longeron and though I'm not an engineer it just do esn't feel good in my gut to know those holes are there. (plus they add we ight and expense that you really don't need) I am pretty amazed that with the years passing that none of my screws along those edges has worked out. (course I've never removed the alum. covers for any reason yet either) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:15 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: another way for access: cowling questions I made my front instrument panel (with no instruments actually) removable s o you can get to the lower cabane and X-cable bracing. My panel is 1/8" birch plywood and I simply glued se veral 'tabs' of 1/4" strips to the lower back side and then screwed those into the cross support from below with (I believe) a couple of floating nutplates. The lower portions of the rear cabanes can be reached thru where I have a d oor to access the pilot's instruments. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:51 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: attaching the aluminum to the fuselage sides Mike I agree. First of all once I get the cowlings final mounted I hope to never have to remove them. If the brass wood inserts are used, they do make quite a hole, even for only an 8-32 screw. You also would have to use brass screws to hold on the cowling due to dissimilar metal corrosion. I think I will go your route and just use SS wood screws. My Piet is coming along pretty good. This morning I mounted my tailwheel assembly, which I finished welding last night. A few days ago I got in my tubing from Dillsburg for my straight axle gear, so I will be doing that next. Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: 3/4/2009 9:47:09 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: attaching the aluminum to the fuselage sides Hi Richard, I'll jump in prior to Jack to tell you how I attached my instrument cover aluminum. I used cap strip material to hold the fabric off of nuts, bolt heads, and such on all four corners of the fuselage and just screwed my aluminum into the edge treatment with stainless steel truss/Phillips round head screws with thin nylon washers on them so you don't nick up the paint. I didn't know that Frank Pavilga had those brass inserts but he might. When I asked Frank I said 'what happens when you strip one of your wood screws out if you remove, install too many times or over-torque (as some of us....like me, are very prone to doing) and he said you just dip a toothpick in T-88 and stick it in the screw hole, break it off then you've got a fresh thread you can make and not have a loose screw. I personally don't like the idea of putting in brass or other inserts to hold instrument cover aluminum panels in place because you're making Swiss cheese along the whole top longeron and though I'm not an engineer it just doesn't feel good in my gut to know those holes are there. (plus they add weight and expense that you really don't need) I am pretty amazed that with the years passing that none of my screws along those edges has worked out. (course I've never removed the alum. covers for any reason yet either) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:03 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions From: "Phillips, Jack" Hi Rick, Mike beat me to it, and I used essentially the same method he did, except that I used stainless steel # 10 sheet metal screws, 3/8" long to screw into the filler strips (and partly into the plywood beneath). They work just fine. See photo: Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:25 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions Jack I was wondering if you screwed your cowling directly into the filler strips with wood screws or used brass wood inserts ala Frank Pavliga and others? Rick Schreiber Valparaiso, IN > [Original Message] > From: Phillips, Jack > To: > Date: 3/4/2009 8:22:15 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > I made holes in the cowling for the cabane struts and diagonals, but > I've got a baggage compartment door that gives me access to the inside > of the cowling. See attached photos: > > If you don't have easy access to the interior of the cowling, I think it > would be difficult to bolt the cabane struts in place. I have not had > any occasion to want to remove the cowling. > > One thing to consider (which I didn't think of), is that the larger you > make these openings, the more rain you will get in the airplane when it > is parked outside in a storm. I know everyone thinks their plane will > be in a hangar, but if you leave it tied down at Oshkosh for a week, I > guarantee it will get rained on. Mine went through a pretty horrific > thunderstorm at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum last summer (see the > article in February's Sport Aviation, with a pic of my plane on page > 78). After such a storm, I typically have about 1/2" of water in the > floorboards, even though I have rain-tight cockpit covers. The water > comes in around the cabanes. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe > Blumberg > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:39 AM > To: pietenpolgroup > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > > > My question is about fabricating the cockpit cowlings with the cabane > holes > in them. It appears that if I cut the holes for the cabanes as holes, > and > not "slots", I can never remove the sheet metal without removing the > cabanes, which means removing the center section and wings. Am I right? > > If I cut those holes as "slots", I'd only have to remove the cross > bracing > and aileron cables, then I could jockey the cowling off without having > to > remove everything else. > > What have you guys done, and in your experiences, does one ever need to > remove those cowlings? > > Douwe > > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:04:03 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts - poll From: "Bill Church" Looking at the photos of William Wynne's Pietenpol that Oscar provided the link to, http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html I notice two things: 1) The diagonal braces appear to be really small. Just a guess, but maybe only 1/2" diameter? 2) The adjustable fitting that was referred to as being a cause of grief isn't really visible. Maybe it's just the photo quality. Or the fitting is buried up in the wing? Anyway, just as a point of interest, how about we conduct a little poll? The diagonal bracing is not detailed in the drawings, leaving the specifics up to the builder. This must result in a variety of solutions. What size of tubing have all you builders out there used for your diagonal bracing (diameter (or size of streamline strut), wall thickness, and material), and did you incorporate anything for adjustment of the length? And as a secondary question: Have you had any reason to think that your set-up is less than satisfactory? (damaged in emergency or rough landing, etc.) Bill C. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:40 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts - poll This will be great information Bill. I am currently at the stage of trying to decide what size tubing to use, so this couldn't be more timely. Thanks, Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church Sent: 3/4/2009 11:07:19 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts - poll Looking at the photos of William Wynne's Pietenpol that Oscar provided the link to, http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html I notice two things: 1) The diagonal braces appear to be really small. Just a guess, but maybe only 1/2" diameter? 2) The adjustable fitting that was referred to as being a cause of grief isn't really visible. Maybe it's just the photo quality. Or the fitting is buried up in the wing? Anyway, just as a point of interest, how about we conduct a little poll? The diagonal bracing is not detailed in the drawings, leaving the specifics up to the builder. This must result in a variety of solutions. What size of tubing have all you builders out there used for your diagonal bracing (diameter (or size of streamline strut), wall thickness, and material), and did you incorporate anything for adjustment of the length? And as a secondary question: Have you had any reason to think that your set-up is less than satisfactory? (damaged in emergency or rough landing, etc.) Bill C. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:39 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions Thanks for the response Jack Rick Schreiber do not archive > [Original Message] > From: Phillips, Jack > To: > Date: 3/4/2009 11:07:28 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > Hi Rick, > > Mike beat me to it, and I used essentially the same method he did, > except that I used stainless steel # 10 sheet metal screws, 3/8" long to > screw into the filler strips (and partly into the plywood beneath). > They work just fine. See photo: > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard > Schreiber > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 10:25 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > > > Jack I was wondering if you screwed your cowling directly into the > filler > strips with wood screws or used brass wood inserts ala Frank Pavliga and > others? > > Rick Schreiber > Valparaiso, IN > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Phillips, Jack > > To: > > Date: 3/4/2009 8:22:15 AM > > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > > > I made holes in the cowling for the cabane struts and diagonals, but > > I've got a baggage compartment door that gives me access to the inside > > of the cowling. See attached photos: > > > > If you don't have easy access to the interior of the cowling, I think > it > > would be difficult to bolt the cabane struts in place. I have not had > > any occasion to want to remove the cowling. > > > > One thing to consider (which I didn't think of), is that the larger > you > > make these openings, the more rain you will get in the airplane when > it > > is parked outside in a storm. I know everyone thinks their plane will > > be in a hangar, but if you leave it tied down at Oshkosh for a week, I > > guarantee it will get rained on. Mine went through a pretty horrific > > thunderstorm at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy museum last summer (see > the > > article in February's Sport Aviation, with a pic of my plane on page > > 78). After such a storm, I typically have about 1/2" of water in the > > floorboards, even though I have rain-tight cockpit covers. The water > > comes in around the cabanes. > > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe > > Blumberg > > Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 8:39 AM > > To: pietenpolgroup > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions > > > > > > > > My question is about fabricating the cockpit cowlings with the cabane > > holes > > in them. It appears that if I cut the holes for the cabanes as holes, > > and > > not "slots", I can never remove the sheet metal without removing the > > cabanes, which means removing the center section and wings. Am I > right? > > > > If I cut those holes as "slots", I'd only have to remove the cross > > bracing > > and aileron cables, then I could jockey the cowling off without having > > to > > remove everything else. > > > > What have you guys done, and in your experiences, does one ever need > to > > remove those cowlings? > > > > Douwe > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________ > > > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain > privileged, proprietary > > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, > please notify the sender > > immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you > is > prohibited. > > > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - > Nederlands - > Norsk - Portuguese > > > > > _________________________________________________ > > This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privileged, proprietary > or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is prohibited. > > Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - Norsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th Anniversary Fly-in at OSH I am really looking forward to the 09 Brodhead/ Oshkosh journy this summer. - I hope I can meet up with some other westbound piets from ohio and fly up to Brodhead with them.- I am still planning on trying to get dad to co me up to Oshkosh since it is the 80th, and it was the 70th reunion at Oshko sh where he decided to build a piet after seeing Mike Cuy's fine looking Ai rcamper.- Stay in touch with plans, dates and travel ideas for the trip o ut to Brodhead.- - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:03 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton, Jr." Subject: Pietenpol-List: Begich Middle School Thanks Oscar Zuniga Thanks Oscar, The school is now officially working on the project and had school assemblies this past Monday. Here is a link to the public radio story so all you Piet fans can listen too: http://media.kska.org/2009/news-20090303.mp3 Many regards, Rob Rob Stapleton, FAA Advanced Ground Instructor N31342-ELSA Anchorage, Alaska KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:53 AM PST US From: "Patrick Panzera" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Never been to Brodhead? Here's what it's like: http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg Be sure to view the image full size and scroll around. It's darn near 8' wide. Pat ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:37:46 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts - poll From: "Phillips, Jack" My diagonals are streamlined 4130 steel, 1.349" major diameter, .571" minor diameter, .049" wall I used the clevis from a large turnbuckle, the AN161 parts, and I believe it had a UNF 10 thread. I used a tube of the appropriate diameter, welded it in place in the top of the strut, reamed it to fit, then tapped it for the screw thread. See photos: This setup has been perfectly satisfactory. I have adjusted it twice to move the wing since I built the airplane, and would not have been very happy with a fixed length strut. As I indicated earlier today, it has gone through a pretty rough forced landing that invloved dragging a wingtip with no damage to the centersection or struts. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 12:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts - poll Looking at the photos of William Wynne's Pietenpol that Oscar provided the link to, http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html I notice two things: 1) The diagonal braces appear to be really small. Just a guess, but maybe only 1/2" diameter? 2) The adjustable fitting that was referred to as being a cause of grief isn't really visible. Maybe it's just the photo quality. Or the fitting is buried up in the wing? Anyway, just as a point of interest, how about we conduct a little poll? The diagonal bracing is not detailed in the drawings, leaving the specifics up to the builder. This must result in a variety of solutions. What size of tubing have all you builders out there used for your diagonal bracing (diameter (or size of streamline strut), wall thickness, and material), and did you incorporate anything for adjustment of the length? And as a secondary question: Have you had any reason to think that your set-up is less than satisfactory? (damaged in emergency or rough landing, etc.) Bill C. _________________________________________________ This message is for the designated recipient only and may contain privilege d, proprietary or otherwise private information. If you have received it in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete the original. Any other use of the email by you is p rohibited. Dansk - Deutsch - Espanol - Francais - Italiano - Japanese - Nederlands - N orsk - Portuguese ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:38:54 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Richard's straight-axel gear Ah, good choice of landing gear Richard. Always like to see the old time look of the straight axel gear. You can almost assure yourself that at every fly-in you'll attend (besides Brodhead of course:) you'll be the only one there with a wood and spoked-wheel landing gear and let me tell you....it isn't your regular Cessna 172 in the rows of planes. I built the straight axel gear because I wanted to torture my limited brain and shop skills by trying to cut compound angles that offer zero forg iveness for even the smallest error to make them fit right. If you've never had an ulcer before building the straight gear, you might develop one during the process:) One thing is for sure--everyone seems to like that look and you'll know when your plane has 15 people around it at your f irst away-from-home fly in. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:15 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 An awsome picture!!!!!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A__________________ ______________=0AFrom: Patrick Panzera =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, March 4, 2009 1:20:0 7 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List messa ge posted by: "Patrick Panzera" =0A=0ANe ver been to Brodhead?=0AHere's what it's like:=0Ahttp://www.contactmagazine .com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg=0A=0ABe sure to view the image full size an -======================== ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:20 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Richard's straight-axel gear Mike I had planned on the straight axle wood gear right from the begriming. I also plan on having fabric covered wheels. One of our tech counselors at my local EAA chapter at VPZ gave me 4 motorcycle rims, but unfortunately they don't match. A few hanger rows down from me there is a group of pilots/builders with a pretty complete machine shop. They also actively build/ restore and race competition motorcycles. They will help me fabricate the new hubs for the wheels, locate the rims I need and then lace and true the wheels. They all agreed that Buchanan's was the place to go for the new spokes. A couple of nights ago we got into the discussion on whether or not you really needed to go to the wider hubs to absorb side loads. I don't think we came to any conclusion. I did get one recommendation of using Yamaha 350 wheels from the years 1970-75. Also a Honda CB 350 from the late 60's might work. The hubs can easily be bored out to accept a 1-1/2 axle and one can use the existing drum brakes. This combination may be heavier than the custom hub wheel. Do you recall how much one of your wheels with brakes and tires weighed? By the way I have my Corvair core and can probably get another if I need it. Al Boushea, the EAA Tech counselor who is overseeing my work is also going to rebuild a Corvair for a completed Piet that he bought. We will be rebuilding the engines together. What is especially good about this is Al is the AP that restored the Allison engines on the P-38 Glacier Girl. Since I have never rebuilt an engine, I'll need all the help I can get! Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: 3/4/2009 12:41:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Richard's straight-axel gear Ah, good choice of landing gear Richard. Always like to see the old time look of the straight axel gear. You can almost assure yourself that at every fly-in you'll attend (besides Brodhead of course:) you'll be the only one there with a wood and spoked-wheel landing gear and let me tell you....it isn't your regular Cessna 172 in the rows of planes. I built the straight axel gear because I wanted to torture my limited brain and shop skills by trying to cut compound angles that offer zero forgiveness for even the smallest error to make them fit right. If you've never had an ulcer before building the straight gear, you might develop one during the process:) One thing is for sure--everyone seems to like that look and you'll know when your plane has 15 people around it at your first away-from-home fly in. Mike C. do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:41 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wire wheel weights Not sure what my wire wheels weigh but they are 19" aluminum alloy rims. >From the Flyboys airplane manufacturer he says a pair of his kit wheels com bined weigh 36 pounds. I suspect mine are lighter as Robert uses what app ears to be chromed steel rims. For photos of Airdrome Aeroplane's wire wh eel kit see: http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/HeavyDutyWheels.html Two welded hubs sell for $195 per pair and have a larger inside hub with a bolt hole pattern for a brake. Wheel kits ready to be laced with 2 tires, 2 tubes and 2 bearing sets sell for $495. This also includes a step-by-step detailed video. The weight of 2 hubs is "about" 2 lbs. (We couldn't get them to register on a digital scale.) The weight of ONE wheel complete with tire and tube is 18 lbs. So, two COMPLETE wheels will weigh 36 lbs. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:52 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts If you look at this pix: http://flycorvair.com/pietosh3.jpg the third jpg down on this page: http://flycorvair.com/wynne.html The profile on the top of the left hand brace appears to be a rod end bearing. Beyond that making it unbreakable would be impractical. Hit it hard enough and something is bound to give, be it the cabanes or the fuselage longerons they attach to. I believe WW's salient point was to not make the fuel lines out rigid tubing as this was what ruptured when the wing shifted on impact. in WW's own words: "I think it would be a lot better to have all braided lines in this case. Loosely secured, so they can't be pulled out as easily" Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga Not to beat this subject to death but to add to what Clif wrote about triangulation, in fact William's Piet did have the cabane brace struts attached at, or very near, the top of the cabane struts and this places the cabanes and the brace struts in compression without introducing any side loading on the cabane to induce buckling. Look at the bottom two pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html and you'll see that the braces on William's Piet continued up into the leading edge of the wing to attach at the cabane attach points. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:52 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts If you look at this pix: http://flycorvair.com/pietosh3.jpg the third jpg down on this page: http://flycorvair.com/wynne.html The profile on the top of the left hand brace appears to be a rod end bearing. Beyond that making it unbreakable would be impractical. Hit it hard enough and something is bound to give, be it the cabanes or the fuselage longerons they attach to. I believe WW's salient point was to not make the fuel lines out rigid tubing as this was what ruptured when the wing shifted on impact. in WW's own words: "I think it would be a lot better to have all braided lines in this case. Loosely secured, so they can't be pulled out as easily" Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga Not to beat this subject to death but to add to what Clif wrote about triangulation, in fact William's Piet did have the cabane brace struts attached at, or very near, the top of the cabane struts and this places the cabanes and the brace struts in compression without introducing any side loading on the cabane to induce buckling. Look at the bottom two pictures at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/WWPiet.html and you'll see that the braces on William's Piet continued up into the leading edge of the wing to attach at the cabane attach points. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:51 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Guys, All of my control horns are now made and I'm ready for the final installation but I'm stumped. The holes are drilled where the main body of the horns attach. My problem is trying to figure out how to drill a hole for the brace(strut) to attach. There isn't enough clearance to get a 3/16 drill in the space. This is especially true on the ailerons. I've only got about 3-1/2 inches of clearance, not even enough for a right angle drill. Did you just drill the hole with a flexible long shaft drill and let the hole penetrate at an angle? Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:24 PM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Patrick Panzera wrote: > > Never been to Brodhead? > Here's what it's like: > http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds seem to be against it. Owen ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 03:09:43 PM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Hi Rick Don't know what others have done but I had to bite the bullet and buy one of the close clearance right angle drill attachment kits. I bought it through ACS. I looked at Harbor Freight and other places but couldn't f ind anything as short. The kit has short little drills that screw into the angle head and it's driven by a standard drill motor.. After buying it I fo und other places that I needed it on the wing hardware. It is a nice qualit y kit but a little pricey for the amount of use I will get out of it. Ed G. From: lmforge@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Guys=2C All of my control horns are now made and I'm ready for the final installati on but I'm stumped. The holes are drilled where the main body of the horns attach. My problem is trying to figure out how to drill a hole for the brac e(strut) to attach. There isn't enough clearance to get a 3/16 drill in the space. This is especially true on the ailerons. I've only got about 3-1/2 inches of clearance=2C not even enough for a right angle drill. Did you jus t drill the hole with a flexible long shaft drill and let the hole penetrat e at an angle? Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:29 PM PST US From: johnwoods@westnet.com.au Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Rick, Clif has a neat tool which would work in this application. http://clifdawson.ca/Tools_and_Tips.html JohnW Down Under Guys, All of my control horns are now made and I'm ready for the final installation but I'm stumped. The holes are drilled where the main body of the horns attach. My problem is trying to figure out how to drill a hole for the brace(strut) to attach. There isn't enough clearance to get a 3/16 drill in the space. This is especially true on the ailerons. I've only got about 3-1/2 inches of clearance, not even enough for a right angle drill. Did you just drill the hole with a flexible long shaft drill and let the hole penetrate at an angle? Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 04:23:01 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 From: Ryan Mueller I believe that would be just "Conts"; I don't recall seeing any Lycoming powered Piets. Ken Perkins A-powered Piet was there (the A Piet in the photo), and Ted Davis had N13691 (also A-powered) out and about. The Piet with the gentleman standing in front of the engine is the Bell's Piet, which is Corvair powered. Ryan do not archive On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Owen Davies wrote: > > Patrick Panzera wrote: > >> panzera@experimental-aviation.com> >> >> Never been to Brodhead? >> Here's what it's like: >> http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg >> > Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an A > engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked by a > guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds seem to > be against it. > > Owen ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 04:33:50 PM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Ryan Mueller wrote: > I believe that would be just "Conts"; I don't recall seeing any > Lycoming powered Piets. I was guessing Continentals, but there might have been a small Lycosaurus there somewhere. I didn't have time to stare at each engine, if I'm even capable of recognizing the difference at that kind of distance. Nice to know there was a Corvair more or less in the pic. ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 04:46:49 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Too bad there weren't any more Corvair or Ford powered Pietenpols there. I guess the rest of us would rather fly than work making engines do jobs they weren't designed for. That ought to start some flame wars! This list has just been too quiet lately. Jack Phillips NX899JP Pietenpol powered by Continental _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 7:23 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 I believe that would be just "Conts"; I don't recall seeing any Lycoming powered Piets. Ken Perkins A-powered Piet was there (the A Piet in the photo), and Ted Davis had N13691 (also A-powered) out and about. The Piet with the gentleman standing in front of the engine is the Bell's Piet, which is Corvair powered. Ryan do not archive On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Owen Davies wrote: Patrick Panzera wrote: Never been to Brodhead? Here's what it's like: http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds seem to be against it. Owen ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 04:52:45 PM PST US From: "Scott Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continuing on the elevator cable issue After showing my tech counselor the responses and his consultation with a old school A&P I am doing a few further steps. First off, I should say how impressed people are with this group as I am. I don't think I would have gone from a pile of spruce and plans to a largely completed aircraft without the experience here. The plan is to install the tail surfaces, rig them and see if the problem resolves, I am sure that Skip Gadd's input will prove to be correct. So I installed the H and V stab, and I have the cables run from the bellcrank and are laying next to the control horns. In order to allow tension to be adusted I am thinking a fork fitting for the top of the elevator cables, and a turnbuckle on the bottom. Then on the rudder, a fork on one side and a turnbuckle on the other. Am I sound here? I have never seen much guidance on this, the plans only cover one on the ailerons for leveling. I have the three turnbuckes and 3 forks as well as a kerney swager which I have used for allot of the cables so far. Oh, and I passed my checkride last week, tailwheel endorsement to start soon! -Scott ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:08:44 PM PST US From: "Patrick Panzera" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 > > Never been to Brodhead? > > Here's what it's like: > > http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg > Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an > A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked > by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds > seem to be against it. Yeah, but if memory serves, it was giving more rides than the others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ayQJOybZII Pat ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:03 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 From: amsafetyc@aol.com Blocked by the handsome devil in the jeans tan Brodhead pietenpol T-shirt and matching piet hat, is that the guy? John ------Original Message------ From: Owen Davies Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Mar 4, 2009 6:00 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Patrick Panzera wrote: > > Never been to Brodhead? > Here's what it's like: > http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds seem to be against it. Owen Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:42 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 From: Ryan Mueller Pat, Ah yes, the classic Pietenopl Air Capmer, a design produced by Berdarn Pietenopl, with the annual gathering of Pietenopl enthusiats in Bordhead, Ciswonsin. You may want to correct the title of the video, so it shows up when people search for either Pietenpol or Brodhead. Thanks for posting the great panoramic shot earlier. Ryan do not archive On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Patrick Panzera < panzera@experimental-aviation.com> wrote: > panzera@experimental-aviation.com> > > > > > Never been to Brodhead? > > > Here's what it's like: > > > http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg > > > Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an > > A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked > > by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds > > seem to be against it. > > > Yeah, but if memory serves, it was giving more rides than the others. > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ayQJOybZII > > Pat > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:42 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Where's Bordhead? Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Patrick Panzera >Sent: Mar 4, 2009 8:07 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 > > > >> > Never been to Brodhead? >> > Here's what it's like: >> > http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg > >> Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an >> A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked >> by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds >> seem to be against it. > > >Yeah, but if memory serves, it was giving more rides than the others. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ayQJOybZII > >Pat > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 05:20:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 From: Ryan Mueller I tried to work up a little indignation for ya, Jack, but I've got nothing. :( Ryan do not archive On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Jack Phillips wrote : > Too bad there weren=92t any more Corvair or Ford powered Pietenpols ther e. > I guess the rest of us would rather fly than work making engines do jobs > they weren=92t designed for. > > > That ought to start some flame wars! This list has just been too quiet > lately. > > > Jack Phillips > > NX899JP > > Pietenpol powered by Continental > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:28 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 But the A doesn't have spokes. Jim -----Original Message----- >From: Patrick Panzera >Sent: Mar 4, 2009 8:07 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 > > > >> > Never been to Brodhead? >> > Here's what it's like: >> > http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg > >> Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes follows an >> A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked >> by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the odds >> seem to be against it. > > >Yeah, but if memory serves, it was giving more rides than the others. > >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ayQJOybZII > >Pat > > ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:39 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 "it's been very nice to have met you. Goodbye Mr. Brown." Do Not Archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Mar 4, 2009, at 7:11 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > Blocked by the handsome devil in the jeans tan Brodhead pietenpol T- > shirt and matching piet hat, is that the guy? > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: Owen Davies > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Mar 4, 2009 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 > > > > > Patrick Panzera wrote: >> > >> >> Never been to Brodhead? >> Here's what it's like: >> http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg > Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes > follows an > A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked > by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the > odds > seem to be against it. > > Owen > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 05:39:41 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 From: amsafetyc@aol.com John you are a spectacular wit anyone that can evoke that much laughter from me is world class. Thanks for the laugh I needed it John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 "it's been very nice to have met you. Goodbye Mr. Brown." Do Not Archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Mar 4, 2009, at 7:11 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > Blocked by the handsome devil in the jeans tan Brodhead pietenpol T- > shirt and matching piet hat, is that the guy? > > John > ------Original Message------ > From: Owen Davies > Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Mar 4, 2009 6:00 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 > > > > > Patrick Panzera wrote: >> > >> >> Never been to Brodhead? >> Here's what it's like: >> http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg > Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes > follows an > A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is blocked > by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the > odds > seem to be against it. > > Owen > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 05:50:03 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cowling questions That's what leather booties are for. While we're here, in the Brit pics from Oscar, check out the great whacking sailing ship whiskey compass in the cockpit pic. :-) Clif One thing to consider (which I didn't think of), is that the larger you make these openings, the more rain you will get in the airplane when it is parked outside in a storm. Jack Phillips NX899JP ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:10 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Ed I'm going to check around the airport and see if I can locate one of these. The ones that I have seen at the big box stores are almost 5" deep! Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed G. Sent: 3/4/2009 5:11:58 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Hi Rick Don't know what others have done but I had to bite the bullet and buy one of the close clearance right angle drill attachment kits. I bought it through ACS. I looked at Harbor Freight and other places but couldn't find anything as short. The kit has short little drills that screw into the angle head and it's driven by a standard drill motor.. After buying it I found other places that I needed it on the wing hardware. It is a nice quality kit but a little pricey for the amount of use I will get out of it. Ed G. From: lmforge@earthlink.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: control horn attachment Guys, All of my control horns are now made and I'm ready for the final installation but I'm stumped. The holes are drilled where the main body of the horns attach. My problem is trying to figure out how to drill a hole for the brace(strut) to attach. There isn't enough clearance to get a 3/16 drill in the space. This is especially true on the ailerons. I've only got about 3-1/2 inches of clearance, not even enough for a right angle drill. Did you just drill the hole with a flexible long shaft drill and let the hole penetrate at an angle? Rick Schreiber st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 06:46:50 PM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 Jack Phillips wrote: > > Too bad there werent any more Corvair or Ford powered Pietenpols > there. I guess the rest of us would rather fly than work making > engines do jobs they werent designed for. > Yeah. Those poor saps, Pete and Paul, sure wasted a lot of time on crappy engines. No wonder their planes could never stay in the air long enough to get out of the pattern. Deathtraps, the lot of them. Owen ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:55 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 It must be the time of year. As the temperatures rise and the thoughts turn to Brodhead, the first Waldo Pepper shots across the bow must be made! This weekend it looks like I can get to the hangar and the snow pile will be gone from the door. Time to de-winterize. I have a lot of rides to hop in the Cub this year and my daughter fancies herself as "The It Girl of the Skies!" Do not archive John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Mar 4, 2009, at 7:40 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > John you are a spectacular wit anyone that can evoke that much > laughter from me is world class. Thanks for the laugh I needed it > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: John Hofmann > > Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 19:28:50 > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 > > > "it's been very nice to have met you. Goodbye Mr. Brown." > > Do Not Archive > John Hofmann > Vice-President, Information Technology > The Rees Group, Inc. > 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 > Madison, WI 53718 > Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 > Fax: 608.443.2474 > Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com > > On Mar 4, 2009, at 7:11 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > >> >> Blocked by the handsome devil in the jeans tan Brodhead pietenpol T- >> shirt and matching piet hat, is that the guy? >> >> John >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Owen Davies >> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> Sent: Mar 4, 2009 6:00 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead 2008 >> >>> >> >> Patrick Panzera wrote: >>>> >>> >>> Never been to Brodhead? >>> Here's what it's like: >>> http://www.contactmagazine.com/Images/Brodhead-2008-b.jpg >> Great pic, but it's a bit sad that only one of the ten planes >> follows an >> A engine around the sky. The rest appear to be Lyconts. One is >> blocked >> by a guy standing in front of it, so it could be a Corvair, but the >> odds >> seem to be against it. >> >> Owen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 11:42:17 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane brace struts Those look very good, a direct line from the top bolt through the brace bolt to the bottom bolt. If you draw out a line drawing of the triangle what it shows is that if you ran head first into something thus causing the wing to try to go forward, the brace strut, being longer than the cabane, will attempt to " pole vault" the cabane up and out. So the major forces appear to be one pulling the lower cabane fitting out of the top longeron and the other in pushing the bottom of the brace down and forward at the same time. There's other stuff going on with the motor mount as well. You know, Volvo was the first to angle the connection between the engine/tranny and the drive shaft to make the engine drop and go under the passenger compartment in a head on collision. This idea could be incorporated into the motor mounts used on our various engines. For example, in the Corvair mount, the forward, long, bottom brace tube could be bent down in the middle with a breakaway brace from there to the top of the rear brace strong enough for everyday operation but with a specific load limit designed in. Exceed the limit, the brace rips apart, the fortube bends down, the engine folds down and back. A shearpin ala outboard motor prop would do it. It's all about energy management. The amount of energy consumed in this process slows the overall impact on the human occupants considerably. First you make it airworthy then see what can be done to creatively make it crashworthy without making it any heavier. Personaly I don't plan on doing a header into anything but around here every cloud hides a very large rock. Clouds come from somewhere, they've even been known to spontaneously appear out of nothing. A friend of mine made his own cloud in a loaded Beaver while flying out of a valley ( between large rocky things) on Vancouver Island. Scared the Beejeezus out of him! Clif Clif, do you mean like these pictures show? Cabane Struts 2 shows the diagonal strut attachment to the top of the forward cabane strut on my airplane. Note that the diagonal strut is basically inline with the attachment to the cabane and the cabane attachment to the wing fitting Cabane Strut - Front 1 shows how I made the fitting for the cabane strut. Note that this fitting carries the attachment of the diagonal strut straight to the wing attach fitting, so there is no tendency for a compression load on the diagonal strut to cause the cabane strut to buckle. Cabane Strut - Front 2 shows how this fitting is welded into the top of the cabane strut, capturing the bushing that attaches to the wing attach fitting. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.