Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:17 AM - electrical system (Oscar Zuniga)
2. 06:40 AM - Re: electrical system (Ameet Savant)
3. 06:40 AM - Re: electrical system (Robert Gow)
4. 07:23 AM - Re: electrical system (Wayne Bressler)
5. 07:23 AM - Re: electrical system (H RULE)
6. 07:41 AM - Re: electrical system (John Hofmann)
7. 08:26 AM - Re: electrical system (John Hofmann)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: electrical system (Jack Phillips)
9. 09:11 AM - Re: electrical system (Jim Ash)
10. 09:19 AM - Re: electrical system (Jim Ash)
11. 09:33 AM - Re: electrical system (Jack Phillips)
12. 09:49 AM - electrical system (Oscar Zuniga)
13. 10:07 AM - Re: electrical system (H RULE)
14. 10:09 AM - Transponder (helspersew@aol.com)
15. 01:11 PM - Re: electrical system (Gene Rambo)
16. 01:12 PM - Re: electrical system (Gene Rambo)
17. 03:08 PM - Re: 4130 (Andrew M Eldredge)
18. 03:22 PM - Re: electrical system (Jim Ash)
19. 03:22 PM - You do NOT need a transponder (helspersew@aol.com)
20. 03:27 PM - Re: electrical system (Jim Ash)
21. 03:54 PM - Re Aileron rigging (GR Hewitt)
22. 03:55 PM - Re: electrical system (Gary Boothe)
23. 04:11 PM - Re: Re Aileron rigging (shad bell)
Message 1
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Subject: | electrical system |
Howdy=2C low 'n' slow fliers=3B
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that=2C either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine to
power the bus or recharge the battery=2C does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However, in
my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used to power
some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power source is
mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft (i.e.
running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical system. On
the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would not.
Just my opinion!
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
> and
>
> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
> what
>
> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
> either).
>
>
>
> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
> there
>
> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
> to
>
> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
> constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
>
> Air Camper NX41CC
>
> San Antonio, TX
>
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 3
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Subject: | electrical system |
I think the short answer is yes. You have a source of electrical power and
a distribution system. There are electrical cables, hopefully fuses or
circuit breakers and a load (radio) all installed on the aircraft.
Bob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga
Sent: March 19, 2009 8:17 AM
To: Pietenpol List
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that, either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine to
power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you
could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no
alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system". But again,
that's just my memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
>
>
> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
> However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an
> electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in
> the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/
> alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>
> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as
> an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self
> powered unit would not.
>
> Just my opinion!
>
> Ameet
>
>
> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>
>>
>>
>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>> and
>>
>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>
>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>
>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>> what
>>
>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>> either).
>>
>>
>>
>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>> there
>>
>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>> to
>>
>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>
>> constitute an electrical system?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>>
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>
>> San Antonio, TX
>>
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
Technically every aircraft has an electrical system.Something has to fire t
hose spark plugs unless your flying a glider.=0A=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@h
otmail.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Thu
rsday, March 19, 2009 9:17:13 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: electrical syst
em=0A=0AHowdy, low 'n' slow fliers;=0A-=0AThere are various regulatory re
ferences to aircraft with and=0Awithout electrical systems.- Does anyone
know if the regs=0Adefine what constitutes an electrical system?- I may h
ave=0Aasked this question in the past but my memory isn't what=0AI think it
used to be (but I don't remember that, either).=0A-=0AIf a battery is us
ed to power radios or anything else but there=0Ais no alternator or generat
or fitted to the aircraft engine to=0Apower the bus or recharge the battery
, does that=0Aconstitute an electrical system?=0A-=0AThanks.=0A=0AOscar Z
uniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
-========================
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
"engine driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and
radio, with no way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true
electrical system per the regs. That's they way it was when I was
restoring things a few years back.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
> >
>
> I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
> My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
> is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you
> could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no
> alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system". But
> again, that's just my memory.
>
> I still recommend we check the regs.
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>>
>> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
>> However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an
>> electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in
>> the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/
>> alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>>
>> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
>> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute
>> as an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a
>> self powered unit would not.
>>
>> Just my opinion!
>>
>> Ameet
>>
>>
>> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>>> and
>>>
>>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>>
>>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>>
>>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>>> what
>>>
>>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>>> either).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>>> there
>>>
>>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>>> to
>>>
>>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>>
>>> constitute an electrical system?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>>
>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>>
>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>
>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>>
>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
See Jeff Boatright's paragraph below my signature. Jeff is correct.
That "may" constitute an electrical system depending on
interpretation. Here is some text from AIM. Oscar, I have been
assuming this is a transponder issue but i may be all wet. Would not
be the first time.
From the AIM (4-1-19):
2. In general, the CFR's require aircraft to be equipped with Mode C
transponders when operating:
(a) At or above 10,000 feet MSL over the 48 contiguous states or the
District of Columbia, excluding that airspace below 2,500 feet AGL;
(b) Within 30 miles of a Class B airspace primary airport, below
10,000 feet MSL. Balloons, gliders, and aircraft not equipped with an
engine driven electrical system are excepted from the above
requirements when operating below the floor of Class A airspace and/
or; outside of a Class B airspace and below the ceiling of the Class B
airspace (or 10,000 feet MSL, whichever is lower);
(c) Within and above all Class C airspace, up to 10,000 feet MSL;
(d) Within 10 miles of certain designated airports, excluding that
airspace which is both outside the Class D surface area and below
1,200 feet AGL. Balloons, gliders and aircraft not equipped with an
engine driven electrical system are excepted from this requirement.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 10:03 AM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> Might be different at various FSDOs, but as per a/c inspected in the
> Atlanta area that I know of, an electrical system must have a
> recharging component (e.g., alternator, generator). Note that it
> need not be engine driven. I am pretty sure that wind-driven
> alternators or generators would get your plane labeled as having an
> electrical system by our FSDO, but I am not certain.
>
> HTH,
>
> Jeff
>
> At 9:38 AM -0500 3/19/09, John Hofmann wrote:
>> In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
>> "engine driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and
>> radio, with no way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a
>> true electrical system per the regs. That's they way it was when I
>> was restoring things a few years back.
>>
>>
>> John Hofmann
>> Vice-President, Information Technology
>> The Rees Group, Inc.
>> 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>> Madison, WI 53718
>> Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>> Fax: 608.443.2474
>> Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>>
>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>>>
>>> My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical
>>> system is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking
>>> that you could have a battery and a starter, but so long as there
>>> was no alternator or generator, there was no "electrical system".
>>> But again, that's just my memory.
>>>
>>> I still recommend we check the regs.
>>>
>>> Wayne Bressler Jr.
>>> Taildraggers, Inc.
>>> taildraggersinc.com
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these
>>>> cases. However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be
>>>> an electrical system used to power some gizmo that is "installed"
>>>> in the aircraft. Whether the power source is mechanical
>>>> (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
>>>>
>>>> So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
>>>> aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute
>>>> as an electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as
>>>> a self powered unit would not.
>>>>
>>>> Just my opinion!
>>>>
>>>> Ameet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>>>> To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>>>>> Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>>>>> and
>>>>>
>>>>> without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>>>>
>>>>> define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>>>>
>>>>> asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>>>>> what
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>>>>> either).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>>>>> there
>>>>>
>>>>> is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>>>>> to
>>>>>
>>>>> power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>>>>
>>>>> constitute an electrical system?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Oscar Zuniga
>>>>>
>>>>> Air Camper NX41CC
>>>>>
>>>>> San Antonio, TX
>>>>>
>>>>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> http://www.matr &n -
>>> &nbs --> http://www.matronics.com/co================
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
> --
>
> _____________________________________________________________
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, PhD
> Associate Professor, Emory Eye Center, Atlanta, GA, USA
> Senior Editor, Molecular Vision, http://www.molvis.org/molvis
> mailto:jboatri@emory.edu
Message 8
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Subject: | electrical system |
John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode C
transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
in flight.
My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few years
back.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
<wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is that
you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
irrelevant.
So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
not.
Just my opinion!
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
to
power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.matr <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
&n - &nbs -->
http://www.matronics.com/co================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
Email Forum -
Navigator to browse
List Un/Subscription,
7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 9
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Subject: | electrical system |
"Engine-driven" is the magic phrase. Batteries and turbine generators don't count.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode C
>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>in flight.
>
>
>
>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>
>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few years
>back.
>
>
>
>
>
>John Hofmann
>
>Vice-President, Information Technology
>
>The Rees Group, Inc.
>
>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
>Madison, WI 53718
>
>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
>Fax: 608.443.2474
>
>Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
>
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
>
><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is that
>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>
>I still recommend we check the regs.
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>irrelevant.
>
>
>
>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>not.
>
>
>
>Just my opinion!
>
>
>
>Ameet
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>
>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>
>and
>
>
>
>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
>
>
>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
>
>
>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>
>what
>
>
>
>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>
>either).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>
>there
>
>
>
>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>
>to
>
>
>
>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
>
>
>constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matr <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>&n - &nbs -->
>http://www.matronics.com/co================
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>Email Forum -
>Navigator to browse
>List Un/Subscription,
>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
Message 10
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|
Subject: | electrical system |
Actually, you could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The rules allow
you to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain, but it gives
you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try contacting the approach
controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll let you in.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode C
>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>in flight.
>
>
>
>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Hofmann
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>
>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few years
>back.
>
>
>
>
>
>John Hofmann
>
>Vice-President, Information Technology
>
>The Rees Group, Inc.
>
>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
>Madison, WI 53718
>
>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
>Fax: 608.443.2474
>
>Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
>
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
>
><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is that
>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>
>I still recommend we check the regs.
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>irrelevant.
>
>
>
>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>not.
>
>
>
>Just my opinion!
>
>
>
>Ameet
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>
>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>
>and
>
>
>
>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
>
>
>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
>
>
>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>
>what
>
>
>
>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>
>either).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>
>there
>
>
>
>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>
>to
>
>
>
>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
>
>
>constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matr <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>&n - &nbs -->
>http://www.matronics.com/co================
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>Email Forum -
>Navigator to browse
>List Un/Subscription,
>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
Message 11
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|
Subject: | electrical system |
I didn't see that option in the briefing on flying into the Washington ADIZ.
They barely tolerate VFR traffic and I think it would be an enormous battle
to get in without a Transponder.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Actually, you could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The rules
allow you to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain, but it
gives you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try contacting
the approach controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll let
you in.
Jim Ash
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode
C
>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>in flight.
>
>
>
>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
>
>
>Jack Phillips
>
>NX899JP
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>
>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few
years
>back.
>
>
>
>
>
>John Hofmann
>
>Vice-President, Information Technology
>
>The Rees Group, Inc.
>
>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>
>Madison, WI 53718
>
>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>
>Fax: 608.443.2474
>
>Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>
>
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>
>
><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>
>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is
that
>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>
>I still recommend we check the regs.
>
>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>Taildraggers, Inc.
>taildraggersinc.com
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>irrelevant.
>
>
>
>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>not.
>
>
>
>Just my opinion!
>
>
>
>Ameet
>
>
>
>
>
>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>
>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>
>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>
>and
>
>
>
>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>
>
>
>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>
>
>
>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>
>what
>
>
>
>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>
>either).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>
>there
>
>
>
>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>
>to
>
>
>
>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>
>
>
>constitute an electrical system?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>
>
>
>Air Camper NX41CC
>
>
>
>San Antonio, TX
>
>
>
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>http://www.matr <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>&n - &nbs -->
>http://www.matronics.com/co================
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>Email Forum -
>Navigator to browse
>List Un/Subscription,
>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>
Message 12
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|
Subject: | electrical system |
Jack wrote-
>Without it=2C I would not have been able to fly it into
>Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
>at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack=2C I have very little doubt that you would still have been
able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
may=2C however=2C have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
"negative xpdr" =3Bo)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 13
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|
Subject: | Re: electrical system |
After 911 they are pretty anal about a lot of things!There isn't a hell of
a lot you could knock down with a Piet but you could be carrying a bad cold
.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:32:31 PM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List
ps" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0A=0AI didn't see that option in the briefing
on flying into the Washington ADIZ.=0AThey barely tolerate VFR traffic and
I think it would be an enormous battle=0Ato get in without a Transponder.
=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matron
ics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of J
im Ash=0ASent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:19 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matro
nics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system=0A=0A--> Pietenpo
l-List message posted by: Jim Ash <ashcan@earthlink.net>=0A=0AActually, you
could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The rules=0Aallow you
to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain, but it=0Agives
you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try contacting=0Ath
e approach controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll let=0A
you in. =0A=0AJim Ash=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0A>From: Jack Phillip
s <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0A>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-
list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system=0A>=0A
>John is correct.- If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
=0A>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a M
ode=0AC=0A>transponder.- However, this is offset by being able to have li
ghts and fly=0A>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a mea
ns of recharging=0A>in flight.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>My Pietenpol has a ground ch
arge only electrical system (some of you may=0A>have seen it at Brodhead la
st year, with a long power cord running to the=0A>hangar where they serve b
reakfast as I recharged my battery).- I use it to=0A>power the radio, the
intercom and the transponder, and most important - the=0A>Ah-Ooooga horn.
- Having the transponder is useful at times.- Without it, I=0A>would no
t have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last=0A>June t
o put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A
>Jack Phillips=0A>=0A>NX899JP=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>- _____- =0A>=0A>From: ow
ner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-ser
ver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John=0AHofmann=0A>Sent: Thursday, March 19,
2009 10:39 AM=0A>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>Subject: Re: Pietenpo
l-List: electrical system=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>In my dealings with the Feds, the
y define an electrical system as "engine=0A>driven." If you have a gell cel
l powering a transponder and radio, with no=0A>way to charge it in flight,
then you do not have a true electrical system=0A>per the regs. That's they
way it was when I was restoring things a few=0Ayears=0A>back.=0A>=0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A>=0A>John Hofmann=0A>=0A>Vice-President, Information Technology=0A>
=0A>The Rees Group, Inc.=0A>=0A>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800=0A>=0A>Madi
son, WI 53718=0A>=0A>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150=0A>=0A>Fax: 608.443.2474
=0A>=0A>Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>On Mar 19, 2009, a
t 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Pietenpol-List
message posted by: Wayne Bressler=0A><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>=0A>=0A>I'd
recommend we consult the regs.=0A>=0A>My memory says that the hangup with
an FAA defined electrical system is=0Athat=0A>you must have a transponder.
- I remember thinking that you could have a=0A>battery and a starter, but
so long as there was no alternator or generator,=0A>there was no "electric
al system".- But again, that's just my memory.=0A>=0A>I still recommend w
e check the regs.=0A>=0A>Wayne Bressler Jr.=0A>Taildraggers, Inc.=0A>taildr
aggersinc.com=0A>=0A>Sent from my iPhone=0A>=0A>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, A
meet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>--> Pietenpol
-List message posted by: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com>=0A>=0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A>=0A>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these ca
ses. However,=0A>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an elect
rical system used=0A>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraf
t. Whether the power=0A>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chem
ical (battery) it=0A>irrelevant.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>So if you power your handh
eld with a battery sourced through the aircraft=0A>(i.e. running wires or a
buss) would probably constitute as an electrical=0A>system. On the other h
and carrying the radio as a self powered unit would=0A>not.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A
>Just my opinion!=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Ameet=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>--- On Thu
, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>From
: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>=0A>=0A>Subject: Pietenpol-List: elec
trical system=0A>=0A>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0A
>=0A>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM=0A>=0A>Howdy, low 'n' slow fli
ers;=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>There are various regulatory referen
ces to aircraft with=0A>=0A>and=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>without electrical systems.
- Does anyone know if the regs=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>define what constitutes an
electrical system?- I may have=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>asked this question in th
e past but my memory isn't=0A>=0A>what=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>I think it used to b
e (but I don't remember that,=0A>=0A>either).=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A
>=0A>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but=0A>=0A>there
=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engin
e=0A>=0A>to=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>power the bus or recharge the battery, does tha
t=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>constitute an electrical system?=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A
> =0A>=0A>Thanks.=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Oscar Zuniga=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>Air Camper N
X41CC=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>San Antonio, TX=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>mailto: taildrags@hot
mail.com=0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net=0A>=0A> =0A>
=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A> =0A>=0A>http://www.matr <
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>=0A>&n- - - - -
- -- - - - - - - - - - - - &nbs- -->=0A>http:/
/www.matronics.com/co==================0A
><http://www.matronics.com/contribution> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> <http
://www.matronics.com/contribution> =0A>=0A>=0A>=0A> <http://www.matronics.c
om/contribution>- =0A> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>- =0A> <h
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se=0A>List Un/Subscription,=0A>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,=0A>http://www.matro
-========================
Message 14
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You do NOT need a transponder just because you have an electrical system. As long
as you stay out of any class of airspace?that requires one.
I do not have one in my Aeronca Sedan (originally certificated WITH an electrical
system.) ?What frosts me is that, according to the regs,?I cannot go inside
of the 30 mile veil that surrounds Ohare, but if you have an airplane that was
not originally certificated with an electrical system, you can fly inside of
there all day long and even get as close as 5 miles from ORD.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
NX929DH
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
well, Jack could have flown into Dulles without a transponder, I have
done it several times no radio and no transponder, it just has to be
coordinated. I am a little surprised that Jack has a transponder on a
battery only -- how long do you get out of it?? I have never tried, but
always thought a transponder drained a battery pretty quickly, too
quickly to be useful, but apparently not.
Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven
electrical system, or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven
electrical system (you can't remove it), you have to have a transponder.
Other than that, you are free. I have been fussed at by towers in
class C airspace for having a radio and no transponder, but I proved
them wrong every time (I kept the regulation cite handy and quoted it to
them)
Gene
building wing like crazy
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
To: Pietenpol List<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Jack wrote-
>Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into
>Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
>at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack, I have very little doubt that you would still have been
able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
may, however, have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
"negative xpdr" ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Re: electrical system |
I'm not so sure about your statement that you must have charging to fly
at night, a number of aircraft are certified and legal to fly at night
on batteries only.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips<mailto:pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 11:27 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging
in flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a
Mode C transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have
lights and fly at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a
means of recharging in flight.
My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you
may have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running
to the hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I
use it to power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most
important - the Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at
times. Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into Dulles
International Airport last June to put it on display at the
Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
Hofmann
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
"engine driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and
radio, with no way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true
electrical system per the regs. That's they way it was when I was
restoring things a few years back.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com<mailto:jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
<wayne@taildraggersinc.com<mailto:wayne@taildraggersinc.com>>
I'd recommend we consult the regs.
My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
is that you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could
have a battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or
generator, there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my
memory.
I still recommend we check the regs.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from my iPhone
On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant
<ameetsavant@yahoo.com<mailto:ameetsavant@yahoo.com>> wrote:
<ameetsavant@yahoo.com<mailto:ameetsavant@yahoo.com>>
I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
However, in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical
system used to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft.
Whether the power source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or
chemical (battery) it irrelevant.
So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
aircraft (i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an
electrical system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self
powered unit would not.
Just my opinion!
Ameet
--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga
<taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>> wrote:
From: Oscar Zuniga
<taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
To: "Pietenpol List"
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
and
without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
what
I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
either).
If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
there
is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
to
power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
constitute an electrical system?
Thanks.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net<http://www.flysquirrel.net/>
http://www.matr &n -
&nbs -->
<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.c
om/co================
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
<http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion><http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/con
tribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.co
m/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution><http://www.matroni
cs.com/contribution><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pi
etenpol-List>http://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribu
tion
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
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on>
Message 17
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Speaking of 4130,
1. Is there a source for .25" stock in small pieces?
2. Is this what builders are using for the split axle gear attachment
component which pins the bungee assembly?
--
Andrew M. Eldredge
Sahuarita, AZ
2009/3/18 Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
> Normalized. As for sheet size, it depends on what you are using to cut
> them out. Bandsaw throat depths vary. Many can be cut from strip stock
of
> the appropriate width and thickness. I don=92t think there is a good way
to
> minimize wast, because, if you are like me, you=92ll make at least 3 to g
et 2
> good ones.
>
>
> Jack Phillips
>
> NX899JP
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 18, 2009 1:25 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: 4130
>
>
> Group,
>
> In purchasing a sheet of 4130 for my fittings it is offered in =93Anneale
d=94
> or =93Normalized=94 state, which is preferred? Also what size of sheet d
o
> most builders get that can get the number of fitting I need on it?
> Thanks.
>
> Brian
>
>
> *Brian Jardine*
> *L-3 Communications
> **Operations Project Engineer*
> 640 North 2200 West
> P.O.Box 16850
> Salt Lake City, UT 84116
>
> L
>
> 801-594-3482
>
> *brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
Message 18
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Subject: | Re: electrical system |
When I first bought my Cub, I researched this one closely. At the time (early 90's),
there was one company making portable transponders, mostly in service to
the balloon guys. They didn't keep them in stock; they took orders, and when
they had enough they'd make another batch of them. I talked to a few of the local
low-and-slow guys who told me to just forget the whole concept and go flying.
I forgot about the Washington ADIZ; maybe the nordo rules are different there.
I was referring to the rules for classes B and C.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gene Rambo <GeneRambo@msn.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 4:09 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>well, Jack could have flown into Dulles without a transponder, I have done it
several times no radio and no transponder, it just has to be coordinated. I am
a little surprised that Jack has a transponder on a battery only -- how long
do you get out of it?? I have never tried, but always thought a transponder
drained a battery pretty quickly, too quickly to be useful, but apparently not.
>
>Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven electrical system,
or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven electrical system (you
can't remove it), you have to have a transponder. Other than that, you are
free. I have been fussed at by towers in class C airspace for having a radio
and no transponder, but I proved them wrong every time (I kept the regulation
cite handy and quoted it to them)
>
>Gene
>building wing like crazy
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Oscar Zuniga<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
> To: Pietenpol List<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:48 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
> Jack wrote-
>
> >Without it, I would not have been able to fly it into
> >Dulles International Airport lastJune to put it on display
> >at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>
> Jack, I have very little doubt that you would still have been
> able to fly your airplane INTO Dulles without the xpdr. It
> may, however, have been a bit sticky explaining your presence
> sufficiently to allow you to get OUT if you showed up
> "negative xpdr" ;o)
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com<mailto:taildrags@hotmail.com>
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>
Message 19
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Subject: | You do NOT need a transponder |
"Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven?electrical system,
or if it was ever?modified to have an engine-driven electrical system (you
can't remove it), you have to have a transponder."
The above statement is not true. Reference FAR part 91.? Read closely and it never
requires a transponder as long as you never penetrate any of the controlled
airspaces indicated.
Dan Helsper
Polar Grove, IL
NX929DH
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Re: electrical system |
Someday when I grow up, I want to be self-important enough to have an ADIZ over
MY house.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 1:06 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>After 911 they are pretty anal about a lot of things!There isn't a hell of a lot
you could knock down with a Piet but you could be carrying a bad cold.
>
>do not archive
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:32:31 PM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>I didn't see that option in the briefing on flying into the Washington ADIZ.
>They barely tolerate VFR traffic and I think it would be an enormous battle
>to get in without a Transponder.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:19 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>Actually, you could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The rules
>allow you to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain, but it
>gives you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try contacting
>the approach controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll let
>you in.
>
>Jim Ash
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>
>>John is correct. If you have an engine driven method of re-charging in
>>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a Mode
>C
>>transponder. However, this is offset by being able to have lights and fly
>>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of recharging
>>in flight.
>>
>>
>>
>>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you may
>>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to the
>>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery). I use it to
>>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important - the
>>Ah-Ooooga horn. Having the transponder is useful at times. Without it, I
>>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport last
>>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jack Phillips
>>
>>NX899JP
>>
>>
>>
>> _____
>>
>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>Hofmann
>>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>
>>
>>
>>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as "engine
>>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio, with no
>>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical system
>>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few
>years
>>back.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>John Hofmann
>>
>>Vice-President, Information Technology
>>
>>The Rees Group, Inc.
>>
>>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>>
>>Madison, WI 53718
>>
>>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>>
>>Fax: 608.443.2474
>>
>>Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>>
>>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>>
>>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system is
>that
>>you must have a transponder. I remember thinking that you could have a
>>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or generator,
>>there was no "electrical system". But again, that's just my memory.
>>
>>I still recommend we check the regs.
>>
>>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>>Taildraggers, Inc.
>>taildraggersinc.com
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases. However,
>>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system used
>>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the power
>>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>>irrelevant.
>>
>>
>>
>>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the aircraft
>>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an electrical
>>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit would
>>not.
>>
>>
>>
>>Just my opinion!
>>
>>
>>
>>Ameet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>
>>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>
>>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>>
>>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>
>>without electrical systems. Does anyone know if the regs
>>
>>
>>
>>define what constitutes an electrical system? I may have
>>
>>
>>
>>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>>
>>what
>>
>>
>>
>>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>>
>>either).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>>
>>there
>>
>>
>>
>>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>
>>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>
>>
>>
>>constitute an electrical system?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>Oscar Zuniga
>>
>>
>>
>>Air Camper NX41CC
>>
>>
>>
>>San Antonio, TX
>>
>>
>>
>>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matr <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>>&n - &nbs -->
>>http://www.matronics.com/co================
>><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>Email Forum -
>>Navigator to browse
>>List Un/Subscription,
>>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>http://www.matro-=======================
Message 21
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|
Subject: | Re Aileron rigging |
Have just started to rig ailerons.
When Stick is central and ailerons are in neutral both upper & lower
cables are equal in tension.
But when full travel is reached both lower cables slacken off,
particularly on the side of the down going aileron which goes
unacceptably slack.
Has any one else had this problem & what is the fix,
I believe that the geometry of the horns is wrong, have experimented
with several different shaped horns on the ailerons with out success.
Thanks Graham Hewitt
Message 22
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Subject: | electrical system |
Jim,
Even YOU can have an ADIZ. Here's the red-neck version...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down=85)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
Someday when I grow up, I want to be self-important enough to have an
ADIZ
over MY house.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
>From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 1:06 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>After 911 they are pretty anal about a lot of things!There isn't a hell
of
a lot you could knock down with a Piet but you could be carrying a bad
cold.
>
>do not archive
>
>
>________________________________
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:32:31 PM
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
>I didn't see that option in the briefing on flying into the Washington
ADIZ.
>They barely tolerate VFR traffic and I think it would be an enormous
battle
>to get in without a Transponder.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Ash
>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 12:19 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>
>
>Actually, you could have flow into Dulles without the transponder. The
rules
>allow you to call ahead so they know you're coming. It can be a pain,
but
it
>gives you the option. If you don't call ahead, you can still try
contacting
>the approach controller on the radio, but there's no guarantee they'll
let
>you in.
>
>Jim Ash
>
>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>>Sent: Mar 19, 2009 11:27 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>
>>John is correct.- If you have an engine driven method of re-charging
in
>>flight, then you have an electrical system and are required to have a
Mode
>C
>>transponder.- However, this is offset by being able to have lights
and fly
>>at night, which you cannot legally do unless you have a means of
recharging
>>in flight.
>>
>>
>>
>>My Pietenpol has a ground charge only electrical system (some of you
may
>>have seen it at Brodhead last year, with a long power cord running to
the
>>hangar where they serve breakfast as I recharged my battery).- I use
it to
>>power the radio, the intercom and the transponder, and most important
-
the
>>Ah-Ooooga horn.- Having the transponder is useful at times.-
Without it, I
>>would not have been able to fly it into Dulles International Airport
last
>>June to put it on display at the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Museum.
>>
>>
>>
>>Jack Phillips
>>
>>NX899JP
>>
>>
>>
>>- _____-
>>
>>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John
>Hofmann
>>Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 10:39 AM
>>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>
>>
>>
>>In my dealings with the Feds, they define an electrical system as
"engine
>>driven." If you have a gell cell powering a transponder and radio,
with no
>>way to charge it in flight, then you do not have a true electrical
system
>>per the regs. That's they way it was when I was restoring things a few
>years
>>back.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>John Hofmann
>>
>>Vice-President, Information Technology
>>
>>The Rees Group, Inc.
>>
>>2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
>>
>>Madison, WI 53718
>>
>>Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
>>
>>Fax: 608.443.2474
>>
>>Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
>>
>>
>>
>>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Wayne Bressler wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>><wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>>
>>I'd recommend we consult the regs.
>>
>>My memory says that the hangup with an FAA defined electrical system
is
>that
>>you must have a transponder.- I remember thinking that you could
have a
>>battery and a starter, but so long as there was no alternator or
generator,
>>there was no "electrical system".- But again, that's just my memory.
>>
>>I still recommend we check the regs.
>>
>>Wayne Bressler Jr.
>>Taildraggers, Inc.
>>taildraggersinc.com
>>
>>Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>On Mar 19, 2009, at 9:37, Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
<ameetsavant@yahoo.com>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>I don't think the FAA actually differentiates between these cases.
However,
>>in my mind an aircraft electrical system would be an electrical system
used
>>to power some gizmo that is "installed" in the aircraft. Whether the
power
>>source is mechanical (generator/alternator) or chemical (battery) it
>>irrelevant.
>>
>>
>>
>>So if you power your handheld with a battery sourced through the
aircraft
>>(i.e. running wires or a buss) would probably constitute as an
electrical
>>system. On the other hand carrying the radio as a self powered unit
would
>>not.
>>
>>
>>
>>Just my opinion!
>>
>>
>>
>>Ameet
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--- On Thu, 3/19/09, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>>
>>Subject: Pietenpol-List: electrical system
>>
>>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>>
>>Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009, 8:17 AM
>>
>>Howdy, low 'n' slow fliers;
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>There are various regulatory references to aircraft with
>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>
>>without electrical systems.- Does anyone know if the regs
>>
>>
>>
>>define what constitutes an electrical system?- I may have
>>
>>
>>
>>asked this question in the past but my memory isn't
>>
>>what
>>
>>
>>
>>I think it used to be (but I don't remember that,
>>
>>either).
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>If a battery is used to power radios or anything else but
>>
>>there
>>
>>
>>
>>is no alternator or generator fitted to the aircraft engine
>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>
>>power the bus or recharge the battery, does that
>>
>>
>>
>>constitute an electrical system?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>
>>
>>Oscar Zuniga
>>
>>
>>
>>Air Camper NX41CC
>>
>>
>>
>>San Antonio, TX
>>
>>
>>
>>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>http://www.matr <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
>>&n- - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -
- &nbs- -->
>>http://www.matronics.com/co===============
=
>><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>
>>
>>
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>-
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>-
>> <http://www.matronics.com/contribution>
>>Email Forum -
>>Navigator to browse
>>List Un/Subscription,
>>7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,
>>http://www.matro-==================
=====
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Subject: | Re: Re Aileron rigging |
Grahm, I believe our piet does the same thing.- It is less severe with th
e air load on the ailerons.- Ours are rigged with just a little droop on
the ground, but are "neutral" in flight.- You will probably find the elev
ator cables to do the same thing.
-
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