Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:23 AM - Re: Re Aileron rigging (Don Emch)
2. 09:25 AM - Re: Re: Re Aileron rigging (H RULE)
3. 09:50 AM - Russian Piet (Michael Silvius)
4. 10:25 AM - Re: Russian Piet (Michael Perez)
5. 10:48 AM - Re: Russian Piet (H RULE)
6. 11:11 AM - Re: Russian piet (Michael Silvius)
7. 02:47 PM - Turnbuckle Question (jimbir)
8. 02:54 PM - Re: Re Aileron rigging (Don Emch)
9. 03:31 PM - Re: Re: Re Aileron rigging (airlion@bellsouth.net)
10. 03:32 PM - Re: Bare wood wing storage (Gene & Tammy)
11. 03:47 PM - Re: You do NOT need a transponder (Gene Rambo)
12. 05:04 PM - Wash-In, Wash-Out (shad bell)
13. 05:17 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (H RULE)
14. 05:33 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (airlion@bellsouth.net)
15. 06:06 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Gene & Tammy)
16. 06:22 PM - Re: Russian Piet (Paul N. Peckham)
17. 06:23 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Al Hays)
18. 07:18 PM - Some progress made (santiago morete)
19. 07:52 PM - Re: Some progress made (TOPGUN)
20. 08:06 PM - Re: Some progress made (Joemotis@aol.com)
21. 09:05 PM - Re: Re: Russian Piet (Ryan Mueller)
22. 09:34 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Mild Bill)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Re Aileron rigging |
If the ailerons are in line with the wing on the ground then the aileron cables
are probably too tight. The top cable will be a little tighter than the bottom
because it is carrying the weight of the ailerons. The bottom cables, which
come down to the stick, will be slack. The aileron trailing edge will hang
below the wing trailing edge maybe 3/16" or so. In flight the lower aileron cables
will tighten up and the ailerons are just about in line with the wing.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235368#235368
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Re Aileron rigging |
You should have your ailerons drooping on both sides about a 1/2 in. to an
inch for wash out at the neutral position.At this time I forget what wash o
ut is for but I'm sure someone will chime in and tell you.I'm getting old a
nd forgetting things these days.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A____________________________
____=0AFrom: Don Emch <EmchAir@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ASent: Friday, March 20, 2009 11:21:42 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Re:
mchAir@aol.com>=0A=0AIf the ailerons are in line with the wing on the groun
d then the aileron cables are probably too tight.- The top cable will be
a little tighter than the bottom because it is carrying the weight of the a
ilerons.- The bottom cables, which come down to the stick, will be slack.
- The aileron trailing edge will hang below the wing trailing edge maybe
3/16" or so.- In flight the lower aileron cables will tighten up and the
ailerons are just about in line with the wing.- =0A=0ADon Emch=0ANX899DE
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp://forums.matronics.co
-========================
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Just recieved these from Valdimir Buroga. In Russia. Thought you might find
them interesting. Looks like in additon to the ovesized rudder it is also
wider than standard. And how about that prop? engine is a Suzuki. Note the
absence of a tail number.
Michael in Maine
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Russian Piet |
Since the rudder does not match the vert. stab. at the top, I say that it i
s a doner from another plane.- This plane has the "encased" ailerons like
I am building into my plane, though my wing tip is quite different.- Sor
ta odd to see a piet pic. in the snow...most are in sunny warm weather...ve
ry cool. (no pun intended)
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Russian Piet |
Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze and I'm waiting around till it gets up to at least 20 degrees
celcius and look at these guys.Holy smokes I wouldn't even think of trying to
fly in the snow let alone the temperatures.These guys got balls!
do not archive
________________________________
From: Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 1:45:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Russian Piet
Just recieved these from Valdimir Buroga. In Russia. Thought you might find
them interesting. Looks like in additon to the ovesized rudder it is also
wider than standard. And how about that prop? engine is a Suzuki. Note the
absence of a tail number.
Michael in Maine
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | re: Russian piet |
a few more here.
note the intermediate arangement on the rudder.
Michael
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Turnbuckle Question |
The Piet drawings we're using call for 325-SF and 326-SF turnbuckles. I'm assuming
one of them equates to an AN130-16S assembly of which I have one of. Is this
the 325 or the 326? What is the AN equivalent of the other?
Thanks.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235410#235410
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Re Aileron rigging |
The ailerons are really just hanging down because of their own weight and the fact
that the cables really can't tighten up that much or binding will occur.
Pretty common with the cable systems on the older ships. Drooping very much in
flight would actually create some wash-in, which is something we do not want.
Wash-in no, wash-out yes.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235414#235414
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Re Aileron rigging |
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Bare wood wing storage |
If the heat and cold hurt them while their in your garage, just think
what will happen to them while their on your plane in and out of the
hanger.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no where else
to store them once built, so I guess they are both going to have to stay
in the garage until ready for covering. I just hoped the heat/cold would
not hurt them. (winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement ceiling.
The wood for that wing had been in the heated basement for two years.
The other day when getting ready to store my second wing I noticed quite
a few loose bolts on the first one. I had no idea the wood dried out
and shrunk that much after storing in the controlled atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG.
12:00 AM
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: You do NOT need a transponder |
Ya know, Dan, I was referring to the instances when everyone was saying
you need a transponder, not in EVERY instance. Don't be so literal, my
statement is correct.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com<mailto:helspersew@aol.com>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 6:22 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: You do NOT need a transponder
"Like everyone has said, if it was certified with an engine-driven
electrical system, or if it was ever modified to have an engine-driven
electrical system (you can't remove it), you have to have a
transponder."
The above statement is not true. Reference FAR part 91. Read closely
and it never requires a transponder as long as you never penetrate any
of the controlled airspaces indicated.
Dan Helsper
Polar Grove, IL
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Remember wash-in your adding lift (increasing angle of attack, or really in
cidence i guess), and wash-out is taking lift out, (reducing angle of attac
k.)- The reason for adding wash OUT, is to prevent the wing tip from stal
ling first, and violently, rolling left or right at the stall (falling off)
.- Wash out lets the inboard portion of the wing stall first, making it g
entler.- Also it keeps the outboard portion of the wing flying, and helps
keep aileron authority in the stall.
-
Just a quick and simple way to remember the two.
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
There ya go I just knew somebody would know that stuff.I just do as I'm tol
d by my AME and keep out of trouble.Sometimes.=0A=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A
=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: shad bell <aviatorbell@ya
hoo.com>=0ATo: Pietenpol Discussion <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent:
Friday, March 20, 2009 7:58:53 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-
Out=0A=0A=0ARemember wash-in your adding lift (increasing angle of attack,
or really incidence i guess), and wash-out is taking lift out, (reducing an
gle of attack.)- The reason for adding wash OUT, is to prevent the wing t
ip from stalling first, and violently, rolling left or right at the stall (
falling off).- Wash out lets the inboard portion of the wing stall first,
making it gentler.- Also it keeps the outboard portion of the wing flyin
g, and helps keep aileron authority in the stall.=0A=0AJust a quick and sim
=======
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Wonder if anyone is getting anything in these e-mails? I'm only getting a
blank page.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: <airlion@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:01:00
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Russian Piet |
In the picture of the Piet during construction, it appeared to have the conventional
tail. And the flying pictures, man I get cold just looking at them. We
gotta get this guy to Brodhead.
Paul N. Peckham
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235450#235450
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
I frequently get a blank page originating from folks whose email
addresses are on bellsouth.net and find that the text can only be
viewed by viewing raw source.
Al
On Mar 20, 2009, at 9:04 PM, Gene & Tammy wrote:
> <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
>
> Wonder if anyone is getting anything in these e-mails? I'm only
> getting a blank page.
> Gene
> ----- Original Message ----- From: <airlion@bellsouth.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 7:31 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 19:01:00
>
>
Message 18
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Some progress made |
Hello everybody!!
-
Here are some pictures showing the progress made in the past months.
We're still working on most of those items and-a few more things.
I hope you all are fine
Saludos
-
Santiago=0A=0A=0A Yahoo! Cocina=0ARecetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludab
le=0Ahttp://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
Message 19
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Some progress made |
what radiator did you use?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235461#235461
Message 20
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Some progress made |
Beautiful work!!!
What kind of wood did you use for the prop?
Also, what kind of glue?
Thanks for the great Pics
Joe Motis
WW Corvair
Helping a friend assemble his Piet working on controls
No Archivos
In a message dated 3/20/2009 7:20:11 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar writes:
Hello everybody!!
Here are some pictures showing the progress made in the past months.
We're still working on most of those items and a few more things.
I hope you all are fine
Saludos
Santiago
____________________________________
Yahoo! Cocina
Recetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable
Visit=E1 http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
**************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 o
r
less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)
Message 21
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Russian Piet |
Here's the gentleman's Youtube channel, with a couple short videos of his
Piet. One is a slideshow of pics, one is taxi testing (well, doing donuts
may be more accurate), and a fly-over.
http://www.youtube.com/user/VLADIMIRBUGOGA
Ryan
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:20 PM, Paul N. Peckham
<peckham9@countryspeed.com>wrote:
> peckham9@countryspeed.com>
>
> In the picture of the Piet during construction, it appeared to have the
> conventional tail. And the flying pictures, man I get cold just looking at
> them. We gotta get this guy to Brodhead.
>
> Paul N. Peckham
>
Message 22
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and control? Untwisted Hershey
bar wings tend to have a stall progressing from the center out.
On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey bar wing can make the
spanwise lift distribution closer to the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thus
decreasing the induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wing
requires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to tip, with the rate
of change in incidence increasing as you go out toward the tip. Just to complicate
our lives, the ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changes
with the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift coefficient, the more twist
required - so you have to pick the flight speed at which you want to minimize
the induced drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most planes spend
the vast majority of their lives at cruise.
It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue and crunched any numbers,
but if memory serves me correctly you could do the following and be close to the
ideal twist distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking only at
the semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the inner part flat and put in
a linear twist distribution over the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (starting
just outside the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip incidence
is -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the root.
Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A engine, you would want to
go with the -2 deg, or even -3 deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruise
speed wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect just putting
you back at about the same induced drag as the untwisted wing) but would help
at the higher lift coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpol
can be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution to optimize for a
speed other than cruising speed.)
If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and papers on aerodynamics
and figure out the best twist distributions for cruise and for climb.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235478#235478
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|