Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:35 AM - Santiago's progress (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 05:42 AM - Re: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (amsafetyc@aol.com)
3. 05:59 AM - Re: Some progress made (Gene & Tammy)
4. 06:07 AM - Re: Some progress made (H RULE)
5. 06:48 AM - Bracing wire (jimbir)
6. 06:48 AM - Re: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Ameet Savant)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Bracing wire (Gary Boothe)
8. 10:43 AM - Re: Bare wood wing storage (Michael Perez)
9. 11:31 AM - Re: Santiago's progress (Tim Willis)
10. 03:59 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (airlion@bellsouth.net)
11. 04:43 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Gene & Tammy)
12. 04:48 PM - Re: Bare wood wing storage (Gene & Tammy)
13. 11:34 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Mild Bill)
14. 11:38 PM - Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out (Mild Bill)
Message 1
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Subject: | Santiago's progress |
Wow! Santiago your work is exquisite especially like the way you brought-up the
steel firewall onto the tray area behind the Model A. Not easy to do but you
made it look easy. Is this the same prop that you carved originally? A beautiful
work of art, to be sure.
Dan Helsper
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
That would be some great information to have
John
------Original Message------
From: Mild Bill
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Mar 21, 2009 12:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and control? Untwisted Hershey
bar wings tend to have a stall progressing from the center out.
On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey bar wing can make the
spanwise lift distribution closer to the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thus
decreasing the induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wing
requires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to tip, with the rate
of change in incidence increasing as you go out toward the tip. Just to complicate
our lives, the ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changes
with the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift coefficient, the more twist
required - so you have to pick the flight speed at which you want to minimize
the induced drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most planes spend
the vast majority of their lives at cruise.
It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue and crunched any numbers,
but if memory serves me correctly you could do the following and be close to the
ideal twist distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking only at
the semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the inner part flat and put in
a linear twist distribution over the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (starting
just outside the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip incidence
is -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the root.
Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A engine, you would want to
go with the -2 deg, or even -3 deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruise
speed wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect just putting
you back at about the same induced drag as the untwisted wing) but would help
at the higher lift coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpol
can be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution to optimize for a
speed other than cruising speed.)
If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and papers on aerodynamics
and figure out the best twist distributions for cruise and for climb.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235478#235478
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Some progress made |
WOW!!!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: santiago morete
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Some progress made
Hello everybody!!
Here are some pictures showing the progress made in the past
months.
We're still working on most of those items and a few more
things.
I hope you all are fine
Saludos
Santiago
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Yahoo! Cocina
Recetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable
Visit=E1 http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/
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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
03/20/09 19:01:00
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Some progress made |
It is a shame you have to cover up most of that beautiful job you did with
fabric.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: santiago morete <moretesantiago@yahoo.com.ar>=0ATo: pietenpol-list
@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, March 20, 2009 10:15:58 PM=0ASubject: Pieten
pol-List: Some progress made=0A=0A=0AHello everybody!!=0A=0AHere are some p
ictures showing the progress made in the past months. =0AWe're still workin
g on most of those items and-a few more things.=0AI hope you all are fine
=0ASaludos=0A=0ASantiago =0A________________________________=0A=0AYahoo! Co
cina=0ARecetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable=0AVisit=E1 http://ar.mujer.ya
hoo.com/cocina/
Message 5
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|
The piet plans call for 13 ga. wire to be used for the drag and antidrag brace
wires. What diameter is that in inches? I'm finding a range of .072 to .091 depending
on where I look.
Thanks
--------
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235502#235502
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Please read a counter point here http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=170
Ameet
--- On Sat, 3/21/09, amsafetyc@aol.com <amsafetyc@aol.com> wrote:
> From: amsafetyc@aol.com <amsafetyc@aol.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Saturday, March 21, 2009, 7:43 AM
>
> That would be some great information to have
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mild Bill
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> ReplyTo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Mar 21, 2009 12:33 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
> Bill" <whfrank@charter.net>
>
> Does a Pietenpol really need washout for stability and
> control? Untwisted Hershey bar wings tend to have a stall
> progressing from the center out.
>
> On the other hand, fine tuning the twist along a Hershey
> bar wing can make the spanwise lift distribution closer to
> the ideal elliptical lift distribution, thus decreasing the
> induced drag. Minimizing induced drag for a rectangular wing
> requires a non-linear distribution of twist from root to
> tip, with the rate of change in incidence increasing as you
> go out toward the tip. Just to complicate our lives, the
> ideal twist distribution for minimum induced drag changes
> with the coefficient of lift - the higher the lift
> coefficient, the more twist required - so you have to pick
> the flight speed at which you want to minimize the induced
> drag. This will usually be the cruising speed since most
> planes spend the vast majority of their lives at cruise.
>
> It's been quite a while since I looked at this issue
> and crunched any numbers, but if memory serves me correctly
> you could do the following and be close to the ideal twist
> distribution for a Pietenpol in cruising flight: Looking
> only at the semispan, i.e. one half of the wing, leave the
> inner part flat and put in a linear twist distribution over
> the last 1/3 or so of the semispan (starting just outside
> the strut fittings would be OK) so that the wing tip
> incidence is -1 or -2 deg (i.e. nose down) relative to the
> root.
>
> Especially for a Pietenpol limping along on a Model A
> engine, you would want to go with the -2 deg, or even -3
> deg. A twist a little beyond the ideal for cruise speed
> wouldn't significantly hurt at cruise speed (in effect
> just putting you back at about the same induced drag as the
> untwisted wing) but would help at the higher lift
> coefficient for climb speed. (So we see that the Pietenpol
> can be a legitimate example of picking a twist distribution
> to optimize for a speed other than cruising speed.)
>
> If anybody is interested I can drag out the textbooks and
> papers on aerodynamics and figure out the best twist
> distributions for cruise and for climb.
>
> --------
> Bill Frank
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235478#235478
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
Message 7
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|
American Wire Gauge (AWG) says .072.
Imperial Standard Wire Gauge (British Standard, SWG) says .092.
I would think that BP used AWG.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimbir
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 6:48 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bracing wire
The piet plans call for 13 ga. wire to be used for the drag and antidrag
brace wires. What diameter is that in inches? I'm finding a range of .072
to .091 depending on where I look.
Thanks
--------
Jim Birke
Ira G. Ross Aerospace Museum
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235502#235502
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Bare wood wing storage |
I meant as a bare wood wing. I would have no concers once covered, with the
drag cables in place.
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> wrote:
From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
If the heat and cold hurt them while their in your garage, just think what
will happen to them while their on your plane in and out of the hanger.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no where else to store the
m once built, so I guess they are both going to have to stay in the garage
until ready for covering. I just hoped the heat/cold would not hurt them. (
winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com> wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
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My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement ceiling.- The wood f
or that wing had been in the heated basement for two years.- The other da
y when getting ready to store my second wing I noticed quite a few loose bo
lts on the first one.- I had no idea the wood dried out and shrunk that m
uch after storing in the controlled atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
-
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
3/17/2009 12:00 AM
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: Santiago's progress |
Santiago,
Your workmanship is excellent; beautiful product; gorgeous prop.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: helspersew@aol.com
>Sent: Mar 21, 2009 6:34 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Santiago's progress
>
>Wow! Santiago your work is exquisite especially like the way you brought-up the
steel firewall onto the tray area behind the Model A. Not easy to do but you
made it look easy. Is this the same prop that you carved originally? A beautiful
work of art, to be sure.
>
>Dan Helsper
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
still no msg.
----- Original Message -----
From: <airlion@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wash-In, Wash-Out
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
19:01:00
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Bare wood wing storage |
With a good coat of varnish I would think it should be well protected.
My two cents worth.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, March 21, 2009 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
I meant as a bare wood wing. I would have no concers once
covered, with the drag cables in place.
--- On Fri, 3/20/09, Gene & Tammy
<zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> wrote:
From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Friday, March 20, 2009, 6:30 PM
If the heat and cold hurt them while their in your garage,
just think what will happen to them while their on your plane in and out
of the hanger.
----- Original Message -----
From: Michael Perez
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 8:01 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
Yes, my wing as well is varnished. I really have no
where else to store them once built, so I guess they are both going to
have to stay in the garage until ready for covering. I just hoped the
heat/cold would not hurt them. (winters...Ohio)
--- On Mon, 3/16/09, Jack T. Textor
<jtextor@thepalmergroup.com> wrote:
From: Jack T. Textor <jtextor@thepalmergroup.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bare wood wing storage
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Date: Monday, March 16, 2009, 3:45 PM
My first wing, after varnish was hung on my basement
ceiling. The wood for that wing had been in the heated basement for two
years. The other day when getting ready to store my second wing I
noticed quite a few loose bolts on the first one. I had no idea the
wood dried out and shrunk that much after storing in the controlled
atmosphere.
Jack
www.textors.com
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
--------------------------------------------------------------------
3/17/2009 12:00 AM
" target=_blank
rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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03/20/09 19:01:00
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
Amsafetyc wrote:
> That would be some great information to have
>
> John
> ---
OK. I'm going on vacation, so it may be a little over a week before I can submit
the details.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235592#235592
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Wash-In, Wash-Out |
ameetsavant(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> Please read a counter point here http://www.flyingmag.com/article.asp?section_id=12&article_id=170
>
> Ameet
You've got me scratching my head here - counterpoint to what? No one in this thread
was advocating tapered wings for Pietenpols.
--------
Bill Frank
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235593#235593
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