---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/24/09: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:15 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (Gene & Tammy) 2. 03:32 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:34 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (H RULE) 4. 05:00 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (John Hofmann) 5. 05:06 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (Wayne Bressler) 6. 05:56 AM - Re: Re: Lets clean it up (Rob Hart) 7. 05:58 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (Michael Perez) 8. 06:37 AM - Quick response appreciated (Jack T. Textor) 9. 07:25 AM - Re: Quick response appreciated (shad bell) 10. 07:37 AM - Re: Quick response appreciated (shad bell) 11. 07:40 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (H RULE) 12. 08:07 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (K5YAC) 13. 08:31 AM - Re: Re: Lets clean it up (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 14. 08:32 AM - Re: Re: Lets clean it up (Ryan Mueller) 15. 08:57 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (K5YAC) 16. 09:34 AM - Re: Quick response appreciated (hvandervoo@aol.com) 17. 09:49 AM - Re: Quick response appreciated (JERRY GROGAN) 18. 09:49 AM - fuel tank material (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 19. 10:33 AM - Re: fuel tank material (Michael Perez) 20. 10:49 AM - Jean Experimental Aviation Fly-In (Patrick Panzera) 21. 11:13 AM - Re: Jean Experimental Aviation Fly-In (H RULE) 22. 02:30 PM - Re: Lets clean it up (Don Emch) 23. 02:34 PM - Re: fuel tank material (Don Emch) 24. 03:07 PM - Re: Transponder (Richard Carden) 25. 03:46 PM - Re: fuel tank material (Jim Ash) 26. 04:34 PM - Re: Re: Transponder (H RULE) 27. 06:11 PM - Re: Quick response appreciated (Jack Phillips) 28. 06:44 PM - Re: Re: Transponder (Gene & Tammy) 29. 07:25 PM - Knots in wood (K5YAC) 30. 07:47 PM - Re: Knots in wood (Gary Boothe) 31. 07:53 PM - Re: Knots in wood (K5YAC) 32. 08:02 PM - Re: Re: Knots in wood (Joemotis@aol.com) 33. 08:16 PM - Re: fuel tank material (Rick Holland) 34. 08:34 PM - Re: Knots in wood (K5YAC) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:58 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up This is so poorly typed, I didn't even try to read it. Why don't you try again, this time taking a little more time and make its readable? Thank you Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 8:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up > > I?Tm a new user here, and while I?Tm not trying to complain, it seems > that some could use a lesson or two on how to keep the forums cleaned up. > Let?Ts get right to it? > > The preview button works great, use it. No need to post multiple threads > asking if ?owe can see something?? use the preview button? if you > can see it, we can too. If not, work on your post before you submit it, > otherwise it will just clutter up the boards. > > Here is a big one? photos! Of course we all like to share them, but > how? Well, that depends on the location of the image file. If the image > file you want to share is on your PC (local, not on the web), you need to > use the button in order to upload your image. This will publish your > photo in the large frame with the file name, size and type up top. We > have all seen em. > > On the other hand, if the photo you want to share is on the web, you can > use the [img] command. For example, if I wanted to show a photo of me > getting ready to fly a Piper Tomahawk, which I have posted on my web site, > I would type (or copy and paste) [img]address[/img], or more specifically > [img]***http://www.patriotdigital.net/images/Aviation/P2223494.JPG[/img]. > Notice the *** at the beginning of the address, that is there in order to > demonstrate the file path, if I take those opt, voila! > > > That is the easiest and cleanest way to share images on the web. No need > to save and upload. If you find a photo you would like to share, right > click on it and choose properties. You will find the address information > there. Go ahead and test that feature on my photo above. > > Here is another problem? starting new threads where a simple reply would > suffice. In every thread you will see at the top and bottom of the > posts. To reply to the comments in this post, click the reply button. If > you click New Thread, you will start an entirely new thread that many will > not realize is a response to the other thread. It is best to keep > conversation in the related thread. Only start a new thread if you have > an original comment or question. This also helps to improve the search > function. For example, if I were to search for ?oelectrical system? or > ?otransponder?, I would likely receive a ton of results, many of which > would be from the past week although all of those threads were in response > to the same thread. It would be much more useful to keep all conversation > on a particular thread within that thread. I?Tm not saying that if > someone wants to ask a question about a transponder that they be required > to go back to the very first transponder ! > thread and add to it? not at all. If someone has a question, by all > means, ask away? but anyone who wants to respond to that topic, in > reference to the original question or successive comment in the thread, > they should do so in the existing thread? don?Tt start a new one just > because you want your post at the top of the Pietenpol list as many may > not even know what you are referring to. And, to my previous point, your > response standing all alone in its own thread will appear as another > separate thread when someone performs a search? not very helpful. > > Anyhow, I?Tm not trying to start an argument... hopefully this will cause > some constructive debate, or maybe even spur some questions. I am a > member of several forums. All are useful due to the fact that many of > those that frequent to boards are very knowledgeable. When a new guy > comes along he can answer a lot of his own questions but searching the > boards. The less cluttered they are, the more useful they will be. > Otherwise, people can?Tt find answers if they exist, resulting in > repetitive questions popping up over and over. I?Tm sure there are some > common questions that many of you guys see often. Could be that the > answers to these are buried in tons of redundant threads on the subject. > > Here are a few easy commands that you may find handy? > > insert photo from web site = [img]web address[/img] > insert photo from PC = use button > insert web address = [url]web address[/url] (example ), or type the > address in full, http://www.matronics.com > insert e-mail address = address > > Another thing that clutters up a thread? repetitive quotes? I can > understand a quote if you actually quote someone else?Ts post, but why > the repetitive quotes? Some of you have this mess in every reply? > > Quote 1 > > Quote 2 > > Quote 3 > > Quote 4 > > etc. > > What is the purpose of this? Just to take up as much real estate as > possible so no one misses your post? Just wondering. If there is no > useful purpose, you ought to clean it up. A signature is one thing? a > mess on the other hand is not very appealing to readers. > > Just my 2 cents? I?Tll stop for now. I?Tve been reading the forums > for several weeks now, and I hope to contribute more in the future while I > construct my Piet, but I hope we can clean it up some in order to make it > a more reader friendly and useful forum. > > -------- > Mark > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235889#235889 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 18:51:00 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:32:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up From: helspersew@aol.com My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0( Dan Helsper Popar Grove, IL NX929DH ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:59 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up Thanks very much for this info;since I am not that computer litterate it su re helps when someone tells me how to do it.=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A =0Ahttp://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235889#235889=0A=0A=0A=0A =========================0A ================= ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:28 AM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up "Smile Son. Never disconcert the masses." John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Mar 24, 2009, at 5:26 AM, helspersew@aol.com wrote: > > My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0( > > Dan Helsper > Popar Grove, IL > NX929DH > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:05 AM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up Let's remember our audience, here. This is a list about building and flying Pietenpol aiplanes, not about being web or forum savvy. Personally, I rather enjoy the somewhat chaotic nature of this list! The Pietenpol list has it's own very unique culture and is a colorful family of helpful individuals, not all of which are well versed in the ways of the Internet, and that's okay. Let's not worry about formatting and things like that, and enjoy airplanes and building. Welcome to the list. Wayne Bressler Jr. Got the plans and dreaming, raising a family in the meantime... Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from my iPhone > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:12 AM PST US From: Rob Hart Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up Hi Mark The rest of us seem to find the Matronics web forum totally useful=3B gramm ar=2C spelling and etiqette faux pas included. Good luck building your Pie t=3B this forum will be here for you=2C warts and all=2C to assist. Iff (s yntax intended)=2C as you suggest=2C it's totally useless to you=2C again I say: good luck. Rob Hart Perth=2C Western Australia VH-PTN (Reserved) > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up > From: hangar10@cox.net > Date: Mon=2C 23 Mar 2009 19:13:57 -0700 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > It has nothing to do with building or flying a Piet=2C rather it has to d o with providing a more useful resource to those that are building=2C discu ssing or flying a Piet. Isn't that the purpose of this forum? I'm sure this etiquette could be applied to the entire Matronics Forum=2C but as a Piet builder I am more concerned about the Pietenpol List=2C so I posted it here . > > Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable ti me savers=2C used improperly they can hinder=2C or be totally useless. > > -------- > Mark > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235898#235898 > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Looking for a place to manage all your online stuff? Explore the new Window s Live . http://www.microsoft.com/australia/windows/windowslive/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:58:28 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up Thanks Mark and welcome to the list. Don't get too bent out of shape from s ome of the remarks here...some people just don't have anything nice to say. Had you posted about how to get something for free or some non-sense about the game last night, no one would complain. - There are some smart Pietenpol builders here who can actually answer your q uestions and provide use full guidance.-It's a good place to start when y ou need some answers. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated From: "Jack T. Textor" Morning all, Wanted to order some aluminum this morning for my wing tank. Planning to use Proseal and rivet. Is 5052 H32, .032 the right stuff to use? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:17 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated Jack, Just make sure it is easy (or at least practical) to remove the tank if you have to do leak repairs.- I know I have had to do quite a few leak repairs on the jets at work.- Pro seal eventually starts leaking.- Als o you will want to coat the rivets with proseal when you drive them.- I w ould also recomend using solid "AD" universal head-rivets where you can b uck them.- Cherry max rivets might be more prone to leaking than a solid bucked rivet.- The proseal also helps glue the flanges togeather when you apply it between mating surfaces.- Our jets call for proseal between the skin and frames/ stringers and you can eaisly bend or break metal trying t o pry the skin off the plane even after drilling off all the rivets.- We joke around and say the rivets are just there to hold it untill the glue dr ies.- Any way good luck with the tank,and send me some pics, I might buil d my fuselage tank for my Jungster 1 that way, as I have lots more experian ce with riveting aluminum than welding it.- - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:44 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated Jack sorry I missed the most important question you had.- I am not sure a bout the 5052.- Is that the weldable alloy?- I believe H32 is one of th e softer alloys, which is good for forming.- Check to see if it is heat t reatable if it is soft, (heat treating may not be neccesary).- .032 shoul d be plenty thick enough, but you might want to put doublers or even triple rs (doubler on both sides of tank skin) where you filler neck and fuel outl ets are.- I am not a sheet metal expert, and you may know much more than I do about sheet metal, but hopefully this is useful.- And the most impor tant thing about aluminum..MAKE SURE TO SAND EVERY EDGE TO A VERY SMOOTH SH INEY SURFACE BEFORE BENDING ANYTHING.- NO, I REPEAT, NO TOOL MARKS ESPECI ALLY WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE BENDING IT.- A TOOL MARK LEFT IN THE ALUMIN UM ESPECIALLY THE EDGE BEING BENT WILL CRACK, AND KEEP CRACKING, and you wi ll be wearing 100LL perfume. - SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPITALS. Thats the most important part, Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:28 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Lets clean it up Geeeeeeeeze I wish I could afford one of them thar I phones then I could email from my GN-1 aircamper while flying.I'm having trouble just gettin the money togther for gaz.Any body want to buy a slightly worn out women not interested at all about airplanes? do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:08 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up From: "K5YAC" Dang guys I cant believe the fire Ive ignited over a few innocent suggestions. I wasnt asking that we change the forum, rather I was just offering a few pointers to those that had raised some questions recently, and suggested a couple of things we could do to make it more useable. It is kind of hard to search through these forums for useful information (you know, using the actual search feature), but if we kept the threads intact, meaning that we don't start a new thread just to reply to another comment, it would be a little more useful when we are looking for solutions to issues that have already been discussed. Hey, so far this discussion is staying in the original thread, way to go guys. ;-) I guess I owe a few answers, and then Ill try to leave it at that. > No Mark, > > I am a Member of EAA 96 and am actually in the controls (rudder and elevator) stage of helping a fellow builder get his Piet flightworthy. Come on down to our hangar at Compton Woodley airport and have a look. Our chapter meetings are on the 3rd Saturday of the month. Or contact me off list and I will gladly send you some pictures of our Piet progress > > What EAA Chapter are you affiliated with? > > Have you started construction yet? > Joe Motis > EAA735730 California is a bit of a drive (or flight) for me Joe, so I probably won't be able to make it any time soon. To answer your question, yes, I am a member of EAA 10 and I am just getting started on construction. I actually have original plans in hand and have rented a hangar for the purpose of building and storing my project. Not sure what relevance that is to the discussion, but yes, I have a genuine interest if that is what you wanted to know. I don't have much to report at the time, but you are welcome to follow along or offer suggestions if you like. > This is so poorly typed, I didn't even try to read it. Why don't you try > again, this time taking a little more time and make its readable? > Thank you > Gene Really? Well, Im sorry it didnt read well for you Gene. Ive been told that I have excellent writing skills, but I do occasionally get long winded and the thoughts can run together at times. > My eyes stared to glaze over after the first two pages. :0( > > Dan Helsper > Popar Grove, IL > NX929DH Dang! Was it really that bad? How do you guys manage to get though build manuals and such? I mean, if the topic Ive posted doesnt interest you, fine, why waste another second on the discussion? > Let's remember our audience, here. This is a list about building and flying Pietenpol aiplanes, not about being web or forum savvy. Personally, I rather enjoy the somewhat chaotic nature of this list! The Pietenpol list has it's own very unique culture and is a colorful family of helpful individuals, not all of which are well versed in the ways of the Internet, and that's okay. > Let's not worry about formatting and things like that, and enjoy airplanes and building. > Welcome to the list. > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > Got the plans and dreaming, raising a family in the meantime... > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > Sent from my iPhone You are absolutely right Wayne. As I stated above, Im not suggesting that we change the forum I know that this is a list about building and flying Pietenpol airplanes, and Im not trying to insist that everyone be web savvy to participate, I simply offered a few pointers on how to do a few things and suggested that the proper use of the reply button would make for a more useable resource. I dont care if the topic is BBQ, motorcycles, firearms, or whatever, the better organized the forum is, the more useful it is to the users. Here is one thing that makes this forum a little different, and more difficult to sort through we have one category that everything falls under Pietenpol List, rather than having sub-categories, such as empennage, wings, powerplant, electrical, etc. So, it is no wonder that its a little more difficult to navigate, but aside from that, keeping the discussion with the original thread (i.e. posting a reply when responding to another question or comment), would go a long way in keeping things orderly. Thats all I was suggesting. You enjoy the chaotic nature, ok, fine, but it just isnt as helpful as it could be. > Hi Mark > > The rest of us seem to find the Matronics web forum totally useful; grammar spelling and etiqette faux pas included. Good luck building your Piet; this forum will be here for you warts and all to assist. Iff (syntax intended) as you suggest it's totally useless to you again I say: good luck. > > Rob Hart > Perth C Western Australia > VH-PTN (Reserved) I never said this forum was totally useless Rob, and I never criticized anyone's grammar. It is obviously incredibly useful or I wouldnt be here, or be trying to make suggestions on how it can be refined in the future. My comment was > Web forums are just another tool... used properly they can be valuable time savers, used improperly they can hinder, or be totally useless. Not sure that I suggested that this forum was useless in that remark. Again, Im not too clear on how my short tutorial on inserting images and how to keep threads intact has turned into everyone thinking that Im against this entire message board. In fact, it was just a couple of weeks ago that I posted a comment about the warm welcome I received and the genuine nature of the forums. Look, I wasnt trying to offend anyone, Im here for the same reasons you guys are (I think). As for my credibility or worthiness, Im no less worthy of being here than the rest of you. I am a registered member of the forum (cant say that for most of my critics), and Ive purchased Matronics products for two reasons, they looked as if they would perform the task I required of them and because the proceeds would continue to support this resource. Maybe I've burned a few bridges with my suggestions(not exactly sure how), but for those of you who are regular readers, you know there was a call at times for the very advise that I posted here, "How do I post photos", "Can you see this", etc. For those of you that didn't find it useful, or don't understand how to utilize these tools, fine, keep doing things your way. On the other hand, those that did find it useful will realize an easier, more organized way of sharing their thoughts and ideas. Ill try to bow out of this discussion for now. Perhaps Ill try a less volatile subject next time maybe a latex thread. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235963#235963 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:31:32 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up Joe, how is the project coming? Last time Jim Markle and I visited the hangar in Compton I was rather impressed by the resources available in tools and talent. Yet I am no fan of bullet holes in the hanger walls. I would love to see some more pics and maybe another visit next trip out to LA. You must have made a bunch more progress since last we saw the fuse and wings 2 years ago. John **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! %3D62%26bcd%3DMarchfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:59 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up From: Ryan Mueller Mark, If you are having a problem finding information by searching the web forum, then try searching the Matronics mailing list archive at: http://www.matronics.com/search/ ....read the instructions; proper formatting of your search helps get the results you are looking for. Searching the mailing list archives will net you more results. The Pietenpol list is primarily an email mailing list , and the actual list archives go back a few more years than what you can fin d by searching on the web-based forum. And as far as your suggestions, thanks for the input, but just remember that they don't apply for many of us as we do not use the web-based discussion board for our access to the list. Have a good day, Ryan On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM, K5YAC wrote: > > Dang guys=85 I can=92t believe the fire I=92ve ignited over a few innocen t > suggestions. I wasn=92t asking that we change the forum, rather I was ju st > offering a few pointers to those that had raised some questions recently, > and suggested a couple of things we could do to make it more useable. It is > kind of hard to search through these forums for useful information (you > know, using the actual search feature), but if we kept the threads intact , > meaning that we don't start a new thread just to reply to another comment , > it would be a little more useful when we are looking for solutions to iss ues > that have already been discussed. Hey, so far this discussion is staying in > the original thread, way to go guys. ;-) > > I guess I owe a few answers, and then I=92ll try to leave it at that. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up From: "K5YAC" Thanks Ryan. The search feature works just fine, not unlike others I've used, but since it is an e-mail list it does have a bit of a different feel, and is a bit less capable of narrowing a search to relevant information. Again, I wasn't trying to impose any change, and I suppose I didn't realize that most were corresponding via e-mail. Seems that at least some are webbing it, and my information would likely benefit those folks a little more than the straight e-mailers. Thanks again for the info. [quote="Ryan Mueller"]Mark, If you are having a problem finding information by searching the web forum, then try searching the Matronics mailing list archive at: http://www.matronics.com/search/ (http://www.matronics.com/search/) ....read the instructions; proper formatting of your search helps get the results you are looking for. Searching the mailing list archives will net you more results. The Pietenpol list is primarily an email mailing list , and the actual list archives go back a few more years than what you can find by searching on the web-based forum. And as far as your suggestions, thanks for the input, but just remember that they don't apply for many of us as we do not use the web-based discussion board for our access to the list. Have a good day, Ryan On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:04 AM, K5YAC wrote: > > Dang guys I cant believe the fire Ive ignited over a few innocent suggestions. I wasnt asking that we change the forum, rather I was just offering a few pointers to those that had raised some questions recently, and suggested a couple of things we could do to make it more useable. It is kind of hard to search through these forums for useful information (you know, using the actual search feature), but if we kept the threads intact, meaning that we don't start a new thread just to reply to another comment, it would be a little more useful when we are looking for solutions to issues that have already been discussed. Hey, so far this discussion is staying in the original thread, way to go guys. ;-) > > I guess I owe a few answers, and then Ill try to leave it at that.[b] -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=235973#235973 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:34:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated From: hvandervoo@aol.com jack. 5052 is the best for this application ..032 should be enough if only rivets are used. if you intend to weld or solder parts of it I recommend slighty thicker material?.05 Hans -----Original Message----- From: Jack T. Textor Sent: Tue, 24 Mar 2009 8:29 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated Morning all, Wanted to order some aluminum this morning for my wing tank.? Planning to use Proseal and rivet.? Is 5052 H32, .032 the right stuff to use? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ? ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:21 AM PST US From: "JERRY GROGAN" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated Jack I am ready to make my wing tank also. I am going to weld mine. Give me a call Jerry Grogan Des Moines, IA Do not arcive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack T. Textor To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 8:29 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated Morning all, Wanted to order some aluminum this morning for my wing tank. Planning to use Proseal and rivet. Is 5052 H32, .032 the right stuff to use? Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:31 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material Jack, I know the gent who welded up my tank used 5052 and I'm almost positive he used .032" thick but can't recall the H rating. I'm sure the Tony Bingelis books give a good suggestion in c ase you'd like backup on what is best. for vibration/fatigue resistance. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:57 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material One thought that I had for fuel tanks is to use something like what Summit racing sells under fuel cells. You can get various sizes and material.- I like the plastic ones. (light weight) If you are handy with machine tools, then you can make whatever fittings/adapters/holders you need to adapt the se into the Pietenpol. - FYI ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:49:43 AM PST US From: "Patrick Panzera" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jean Experimental Aviation Fly-In It's just a few days away, March 27-29, Jean Nevada. Forums all day on Saturday March 28th, dinner to follow. http://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html ... and it's FREE! Pat Editor@ContactMagazine.com ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:09 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jean Experimental Aviation Fly-In Wow;wish I could make it that far;place looks like area 51=0A=0Ado not arch ive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Patrick Panzera =0ATo: Corvair engines for homebuilt air craft ; CorvAIRCRAFT@yahoogroups.com=0ASent: Tuesd ay, March 24, 2009 1:47:47 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Jean Experimental " =0A=0AIt's just a few days away, March 27-29, Jean Nevada.=0AForums all day on Saturday March 28th, dinner to fol low.=0Ahttp://www.contactmagazine.com/roundup.html=0A... and it's FREE!=0A -======================== ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up From: "Don Emch" Wow K5YAC, you sure can type! Much better than me! Don Emch NX899DE DO NOT ARCHIVE...... which really helps to keep the archives cleaned up. [Wink] Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236019#236019 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank material From: "Don Emch" I used 5052, .050" thick. I had a race car shop in Gibsonburg, OH weld mine. I fabbed it all up and clamped all the flanges together and took it to them. They did a fantastic job. They weld custom tanks for race cars all the time. I'm sure if someone couldn't find a local shop they could send one ready to weld to this shop. If anyone would like I can get info. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236020#236020 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:55 PM PST US From: Richard Carden Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder >>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet, >>> not because of FAA regulations, but because I want the ability to >>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition. >>> And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes, as >>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and >>> some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard, >>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for >>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:55 PM PST US From: Jim Ash Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material I'm curious what (if anything) you guys are doing for stiffeners on your tanks. Are you rolling beads or attaching additional stiffeners? One of my 'standard shtick' SNF demos has been to cut a small flat sheet from a soda can and let 'em play with it, then run two or three beads all in one direction, then let 'em play with it again. Sometimes I wish I were working on commission... Jim Ash -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" >Sent: Mar 24, 2009 12:48 PM >To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material > > >Jack, > >I know the gent who welded up my tank used 5052 and I'm almost positive he used .032" thick but can't recall >the H rating. I'm sure the Tony Bingelis books give a good suggestion in case you'd like backup on what is best. >for vibration/fatigue resistance. > >Mike C. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:34:09 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder You can make yourself as safe as you can and try for others to see you but if the ultralighters arn't doing the same then it's a moot point.They will still crash into you.Hopefully they see you in time but what they need is t o be educated in proper flight procedures and if they can, install somewhat the same equipment(not always possible with these guys because they are ul tralights after all).Good luck!I am an ultralight pilot myself flying a GN- 1 aircamper in Canada and as an ultralight pilot I had to take instruction on proper procedures.=0A=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________ ________________=0AFrom: Richard Carden =0ATo: pieten pol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 6:03:41 PM=0ASubject : Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message posted by : Richard Carden =0A=0A>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet, not because of FAA regulations, but be cause I want the ability to be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with tr affic recognition. And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes , as we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard, patterns and patte rn altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for me just part of the "see an == ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:55 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated 5052 H32 is what I used for my tank. It is a weldable, non-heat-treatable (but work hardening, hence the H32 designation) alloy with good corrosion resistance. As for Pro-Seal, I'm not a big fan of it. I have had a leak at nearly every rivet in the tanks in my RV-4, and they were sealed with proseal (admittedly, it has been flying for 22 years now, so it takes a while for Pro-Seal to leak, but it WILL eventually leak). On my Pietenpol I riveted the tank together and then had every seam and every rivet TIG welded, then checked for leaks. I found 32 separate pinhole leaks and had them re-welded. Checked it again and this time there were only 4 leaks. Back to the welder, then leak checked and it has been leak free ever since. Jack Phillips MX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 10:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated Jack sorry I missed the most important question you had. I am not sure about the 5052. Is that the weldable alloy? I believe H32 is one of the softer alloys, which is good for forming. Check to see if it is heat treatable if it is soft, (heat treating may not be neccesary). .032 should be plenty thick enough, but you might want to put doublers or even triplers (doubler on both sides of tank skin) where you filler neck and fuel outlets are. I am not a sheet metal expert, and you may know much more than I do about sheet metal, but hopefully this is useful. And the most important thing about aluminum..MAKE SURE TO SAND EVERY EDGE TO A VERY SMOOTH SHINEY SURFACE BEFORE BENDING ANYTHING. NO, I REPEAT, NO TOOL MARKS ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU ARE GOING TO BE BENDING IT. A TOOL MARK LEFT IN THE ALUMINUM ESPECIALLY THE EDGE BEING BENT WILL CRACK, AND KEEP CRACKING, and you will be wearing 100LL perfume. SORRY ABOUT THE ALL CAPITALS. Thats the most important part, Shad ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:50 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder Dick, I don't know where your flying out of but some of those complete idiots may know more than you think they do. At many airports that ultralights fly out of, ultralights have a different pattern altitude and at some they even have different patterns. Sometimes we have to be careful who we call the Idiot. My two (2) cents worth Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carden" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > > >>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet, >>>> not because of FAA regulations, but because I want the ability to >>>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition. >>>> And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes, as >>>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and >>>> some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard, >>>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for >>>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09:19:00 ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:08 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Knots in wood From: "K5YAC" I just received my capstrip for my wing ribs today, and while inspecting I found a knot in one of the strips (pictured below). This section of wood will likely get cut away, but I'm just wondering if this is the type of stuff I should look out for. This is the 1/2" side of a 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip, so the knot is approximately 1/16" in diameter. Reason for concern? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236050#236050 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:47:17 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Knots in wood Mark, I am traveling and don't have my copy of AC43.13, but if memory serves me correctly, it allows for up to 1/8" knots that are not loose. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 7:22 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Knots in wood I just received my capstrip for my wing ribs today, and while inspecting I found a knot in one of the strips (pictured below). This section of wood will likely get cut away, but I'm just wondering if this is the type of stuff I should look out for. This is the 1/2" side of a 1/2" x 1/4" capstrip, so the knot is approximately 1/16" in diameter. Reason for concern? -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236050#236050 ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:04 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Knots in wood From: "K5YAC" Thanks Gary... I have a copy here that I'll look through to see if I can find that info. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236052#236052 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:01 PM PST US From: Joemotis@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Knots in wood c. Hard knots. Sound, hard knots up to 3/8 inch in maximum diameter are acceptable providing: (1) they are not projecting portions of I-beams, along the edges of rectangular or beveled unrouted beams, or along the edges of flanges of box beams (except in lowly stressed portions); (2) they do not cause grain divergence at the edges of the board or in the flanges of a beam more than specified in column 3; and (3) they are in the center third of the beam and are not closer than 20 inches to another knot or other defect (pertains to 3/8 inch knots=94smaller knots may be proportionately closer). Knots greater than 1/4 inch must be used with caution. Chapter 1 AC 43.13 Joe Motis Piety piet piet No archivos In a message dated 3/24/2009 7:53:40 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, hangar10@cox.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "K5YAC" Thanks Gary... I have a copy here that I'll look through to see if I can find that info. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236052#236052 **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 o r less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001) ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:16:50 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material From: Rick Holland I used .040 5052, tig welded. Even though it would be a little heavier next time I would go with .050, easier and stronger welds and stronger overall. Rick On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > > Jack, > > I know the gent who welded up my tank used 5052 and I'm almost positive he > used .032" thick but can't recall > the H rating. I'm sure the Tony Bingelis books give a good suggestion in > case you'd like backup on what is best. > for vibration/fatigue resistance. > > Mike C. > > > * > > * > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:34:44 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Knots in wood From: "K5YAC" Great! Thanks Joe. -------- Mark Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236057#236057 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.