---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 03/25/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:50 AM - Re: fuel tank material- Stewart System update (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 05:17 AM - Re: Knots in wood (Glenn Thomas) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: Lets clean it up (Glenn Thomas) 4. 06:06 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (Robert Gow) 5. 06:06 AM - flying, cabane and jury struts (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 6. 06:39 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (Scott Knowlton) 7. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (TOM STINEMETZE) 8. 07:09 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (Robert Gow) 9. 07:38 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (Scott Knowlton) 10. 08:06 AM - Re: Quick response appreciated (Jack T. Textor) 11. 08:06 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (TOM STINEMETZE) 12. 08:08 AM - Re: Re: Transponder (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 13. 01:39 PM - Re: fuel tank material- Stewart System update (jimd) 14. 05:59 PM - Let's clean it up (Lawrence Williams) 15. 07:43 PM - Re: flying, cabane and jury struts (Dick N.) 16. 08:09 PM - Some Sad News (John Hofmann) 17. 08:28 PM - Jim Lagowski Pietenpol completion in April Sport Pilot (ldmill) 18. 09:41 PM - Re: flying, cabane and jury struts (Mike Tunnicliffe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fuel tank material- Stewart System update From: helspersew@aol.com I made mine out of 5052, .050. I taught myself how to TIG weld aluminum, after failing miserably at trying to gas weld the stuff. I bought all of Kent White's books, filler rod, torches etc. and he made it look so easy at his OSH seminars, I thought it would be easy. NOT!??????? It took me MANY hours and two tanks before I was able to TIG weld a good one. I only had 5 leaks to fix! I am intalling an access panel (.025 alum) over it so I can?remove it?easily if I have to. I stiffened the top panel of the tank by hammering-in an impresion of a 5/8" steel rod in two places. One mistake I made was placing the filler neck too far aft, so as to make it difficult to reach when re-fueling. I should have kept this as far foward as possible. (center-section wing tank). The fuel gauge is a "Stearman" type with the cork float and the see-through plastic clinder hanging down from the tank. I bought one from ACS and had to cut it down to fit in the shallower tank. Another mistake I made wa s to place the gauge right?in front of the front seat passenger, making it even more difficult?to get in. But I decided to leave it there. I actually made an aluminum housing that protects the plastic cylinder because I was afraid that somebody might use it as a handle, or bump it with their head.? FYI I am well-into the Stewart System covering all my control sufaces. I predict over time that this system will over-take Polyfiber. It is far superior in my opinion. No fumes, plus you can work at your own pace with the glue. This glue is some kind of rubber-based stuff. You paint it on, let it dry, place the fabric on it, tack it with an iron, then paint more glue down through the fabric and you are done. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL NX929DH ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:17:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Knots in wood From: "Glenn Thomas" What I did was order about 10% more capstrip than I needed. Then I put aside pieces like that one, and used them for the internal short pieces, simply cutting out knots. I had an order from Aircraft Spruce that had so much of that kind of wood, and poorly cut wood, that I had them replace it. Also, I just planed the extra capstrip down and am using it for the capstrip in the empennage now, so I really didn't end up with anything unused. FYI -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236072#236072 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Lets clean it up From: "Glenn Thomas" Mark, your points are well-taken. One thing I like about this forum is the friendly exchanges we have here. I've looked briefly at other lists that have greater discipline in enforcing adherence to topics and list protocol. This list has a unique culture that has no "enforcer" and the climate is almost always friendly. I call it my home on the range and come here for encouraging casual friendly atmosphere mixed with an incredible range of knowledge. Most of us like it this way despite the flaws in sticking to topics. Other characteristics of the disciplined forums you refer to are cocky moderators that "flame" you and cliques that seem to exclude rather than include. So, don't take offense to the comments you've received, I just think a lot of other guys like me are just trying to keep a unique forum they way they like it, the way it has been for many years. Take care, welcome, and look forward to seeing your project advance. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236074#236074 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:00 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder If this was a perfect world every aircraft would have a little unobtrusive $300 dollar remote transponder that would make the aircraft visible on my TCAS. No exceptions. I'd rather have that than the 406 Mhz ELT being mandated up here in the Great White North. Do not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene & Tammy Sent: March 24, 2009 8:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder Dick, I don't know where your flying out of but some of those complete idiots may know more than you think they do. At many airports that ultralights fly out of, ultralights have a different pattern altitude and at some they even have different patterns. Sometimes we have to be careful who we call the Idiot. My two (2) cents worth Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Carden" Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > > >>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet, >>>> not because of FAA regulations, but because I want the ability to >>>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition. >>>> And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes, as >>>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and >>>> some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard, >>>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for >>>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09:19:00 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:57 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts I am building/having built all my struts from laminated wood (ash and mahogany 3/8 strips) for those that have used wood as strut material: Has anyone beefed up the dimensions of the wood to compensate for the strength difference? I am also considering a routed channel in each cabane strut to run wires and plumbing rather than the typical zip tie method of keeping all the wing wire and plumbing runs secure? Will the routed out center of the cabane strut weaken its integrity and should it be made slightly larger to make up for the hollowed center? anyone have any recommendations I need to consider with the intended plan? Please provide your best advice in this intended material and slight design change. Thanks John **************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153654%3B34689672%3Bo) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:39:37 AM PST US From: Scott Knowlton Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder I completely agree with you! I had planned to keep my old NARCO 121.5 ELT until our Canadian extension date of Feb 2011 but while I was having the u nit tested I asked the avionics shop the question of what the cost will be to upgrade to the new 406 Mhz. The cheapest unit is $950.00 US and install ation is another $1000.00 to $1500!!! Apparently an AME can do it for the next year or so but after that you can only go to an avionics shop where th ey're used to clients bringing in a 20M Challenger or Gulfstream for a coup le hundred grand worth of avionics work. Some lobby group made out like bandits on this new Canadian regulation at t he expense of little airplane owners. Our COPA group fought the good fight but lost to the white collar paper pushers in the end. Technology is cert ainly out there for a small transponder/personal 406 beacon but since the b ig shops won't make any money at that it'll be a long time (if ever) before our ministry ever approves such a device. Thanks for letting me post this. I feel better now... Scott Knowlton slow piet builder in Burlington ON. > From: rgow@avionicsdesign.ca > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > Date: Wed=2C 25 Mar 2009 07:58:20 -0500 > a> > > If this was a perfect world every aircraft would have a little unobtrusiv e > $300 dollar remote transponder that would make the aircraft visible on my > TCAS. No exceptions. I'd rather have that than the 406 Mhz ELT being > mandated up here in the Great White North. > > Do not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene & > Tammy > Sent: March 24=2C 2009 8:44 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > > > > > Dick=2C I don't know where your flying out of but some of those complete > idiots may know more than you think they do. At many airports that > ultralights fly out of=2C ultralights have a different pattern altitude a nd at > some they even have different patterns. Sometimes we have to be careful w ho > we call the Idiot. > My two (2) cents worth > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Carden" > To: > Sent: Tuesday=2C March 24=2C 2009 5:03 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > > > > > > > >>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet=2C > >>>> not because of FAA regulations=2C but because I want the ability to > >>>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition. > >>>> And for that same reason=2C I'm installing wingtip strobes=2C as > >>>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area=2C and > >>>> some of them seem unable to comprehend=2C or simply disregard=2C > >>>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for > >>>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- > ---- > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 09:19:00 > > > > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Experience all of the new features=2C and Reconnect with your life. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650730 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:25 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder Slow Piet builder, eh? You could use a sign like my buddy loaned me when he saw the progress on my Piet project. (See photo attached.) Tom Stinemetze McPherson, KS. do not archive >>Scott Knowlton >>slow piet builder in Burlington ON. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:09:28 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder We have been involved in two programs to certify (TSO) new 406 Mhz ELTs. Both never came to fruition because ELTs have expensive certification and low returns (even at $800 each). The installation cost is increased because of the wiring that must run to the cockpit and the additional strength required of the mount compared to the old standards. Believe it or not but our shop has done ELT installations off-shore that have cost upwards of 25K when you include travel and other costs. That's a lot for an ELT. Now guess what. Transitioning aircraft will also need to have a 406 Mhz ELT. So all the American aircraft that come north for business or pleasure will ultimately be shut our of our airspace. Now there is a good way to foster international business and trade. Tell you biggest trading partner to stay home. Bob do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Scott Knowlton Sent: March 25, 2009 8:34 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder I completely agree with you! I had planned to keep my old NARCO 121.5 ELT until our Canadian extension date of Feb 2011 but while I was having the unit tested I asked the avionics shop the question of what the cost will be to upgrade to the new 406 Mhz. The cheapest unit is $950.00 US and installation is another $1000.00 to $1500!!! Apparently an AME can do it for the next year or so but after that you can only go to an avionics shop where they're used to clients bringing in a 20M Challenger or Gulfstream for a couple hundred grand worth of avionics work. Some lobby group made out like bandits on this new Canadian regulation at the expense of little airplane owners. Our COPA group fought the good fight but lost to the white collar paper pushers in the end. Technology is certainly out there for a small transponder/personal 406 beacon but since the big shops won't make any money at that it'll be a long time (if ever) before our ministry ever approves such a device. Thanks for letting me post this. I feel better now... Scott Knowlton slow piet builder in Burlington ON. > From: rgow@avionicsdesign.ca > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 07:58:20 -0500 > > > If this was a perfect world every aircraft would have a little unobtrusive > $300 dollar remote transponder that would make the aircraft visible on my > TCAS. No exceptions. I'd rather have that than the 406 Mhz ELT being > mandated up here in the Great White North. > > Do not Archive > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene & > Tammy > Sent: March 24, 2009 8:44 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > > > > > Dick, I don't know where your flying out of but some of those complete > idiots may know more than you think they do. At many airports that > ultralights fly out of, ultralights have a different pattern altitude and at > some they even have different patterns. Sometimes we have to be careful who > we call the Idiot. > My two (2) cents worth > Gene > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Carden" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2009 5:03 PM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder > > > > > > > >>>> I've made provisions for a transponder and encoder in my Piet, > >>>> not because of FAA regulations, but because I want the ability to > >>>> be seen by ATC and by aircraft equipped with traffic recognition. > >>>> And for that same reason, I'm installing wingtip strobes, as > >>>> we've got some complete idiots flying ultralights in my area, and > >>>> some of them seem unable to comprehend, or simply disregard, > >>>> patterns and pattern altitudes. A transponder and strobes are for > >>>> me just part of the "see and be seen" mantra. Dick Carden > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- > ---- > > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > 09:19:00 > > > &g Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, >=== > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Make your Messenger window look the way you want. Express Yourself! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:07 AM PST US From: Scott Knowlton Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder Tom. Thanks for the sign idea!!! Did it help to reduce the number of time s your friends asked you in your workshop=2C "So when do you think you're g onna be done??" Scott From: TOMS@mcpcity.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder Slow Piet builder=2C eh? You could use a sign like my buddy loaned me whe n he saw the progress on my Piet project. (See photo attached.) Tom Stinemetze McPherson=2C KS. do not archive >>Scott Knowlton >>slow piet builder in Burlington ON. _________________________________________________________________ Share photos with friends on Windows Live Messenger http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650734 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:44 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Quick response appreciated From: "Jack T. Textor" Thanks so much to all for the responses! www.textors.com do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:06:45 AM PST US From: "TOM STINEMETZE" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder Scott: Since my friends had to squeeze around the sign to even get in my shop their question usually was: "How can you build that thing in here?" My co-workers, though, think I'm about the slowest builder around. Stinemetze do not archive >>> Scott Knowlton 3/25/2009 9:36 AM >>> >>Tom. Thanks for the sign idea!!! Did it help to reduce the number of times your friends asked you in your workshop, "So when do you think you're gonna be done??" >>Scott ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:08:19 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Transponder I use the rolling two years for my answer, its always going to be done in two years and I am always right, no matter what! John **************Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 leclick.net%2Fclk%3B213153654%3B34689672%3Bo) ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:49 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: fuel tank material- Stewart System update From: "jimd" I agree completely. The Stewart Systems products are pleasant to work with. Covered ailerons in the dining room, Wing in the living room and no problems, no smell, no worry about it catching fire, etc. The glue is cool in that you can use an iron to really make it smooth, with PolyBrush you are not supposed to iron it, with Ekobond I get it the way I want it, then iron the edges of the tapes repeatedly, sometimes adding a bit more glue, the results are edges that I can't feel the pinked edges of. Very nice. Also I managed to cover my wings and ailerons using maybe two clamps at most, just to get the fabric roughly in place, rest was using the glue to tack it. Hard to explain, but it is very pleasant to work with, and forgiving. Had one tape (trailing edge of wing panel) that wasn't right, instead of ironing it in place, I had tried using cloths pins and the fabric shifted and had some excess along the back edges that wouldn't come out, I hadn't ironed the tapes with a hot iron yet, so was able to pull them off (a week after putting them on) without any problem. Anyway, when linen and dope ruled, polyfiber had resistance, think the Stewart Systems stuff will as well, but it is nice to work with and you can get excellent results pretty easy with it. Jim D. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236137#236137 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:59:31 PM PST US From: Lawrence Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: Let's clean it up One of my favorite quotes in all of literature might sum this one up nicely : - "It is not advisable, James (or Mark), to venture unsolicited advise. You s hould spare yourself the embarrassing discovery of their exact value to you r listener." - Larry Williams xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:43:13 PM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts My opinion is that the wood should actually be as strong as steel. It will have more ability to flex and absorb shock loads. When I get around to it, I plan on doing the same thing with my radial eng Piet. Allan Wise flew his very unique Piet for years with wood struts. It didn't have any steel internal strapping and was very strong. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 8:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts I am building/having built all my struts from laminated wood (ash and mahogany 3/8 strips) for those that have used wood as strut material: Has anyone beefed up the dimensions of the wood to compensate for the strength difference? I am also considering a routed channel in each cabane strut to run wires and plumbing rather than the typical zip tie method of keeping all the wing wire and plumbing runs secure? Will the routed out center of the cabane strut weaken its integrity and should it be made slightly larger to make up for the hollowed center? anyone have any recommendations I need to consider with the intended plan? Please provide your best advice in this intended material and slight design change. Thanks John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:05 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Pietenpol-List: Some Sad News For those of you who attend Brodhead and know Bill and Sue Knight, Sue passed away last night after a very short and courageous bout with cancer. The funeral is Saturday in Brodhead but I don't know the details. -john- John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:45 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Lagowski Pietenpol completion in April Sport Pilot From: "ldmill" Jim Lagowski from Michigan has a very nice pic of his completed Piet in the April edition of EAA Sport Pilot on page 53. Nice paint job! Lorin Miller -------- Lorin Miller Waiex N81YX Pietenpol next up Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236177#236177 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:57 PM PST US From: Mike Tunnicliffe Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts Hi, I'am thinking of doing the same, I think the ash struts should be sized so its strength is at least equal to the spruce at the fuse and spar ends of the attachment.ie say 75% the thickness of spruce. Also as the strut material will be vertical grained the struts should have a layer or two of ply with the grain running across to prevent splitting at the bolt attachment points. Is anyone currently flying with wood struts and if so what dimensions have they used? Regards Mike T. ----- Original Message ----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 2:05 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: flying, cabane and jury struts I am building/having built all my struts from laminated wood (ash and mahogany 3/8 strips) for those that have used wood as strut material: Has anyone beefed up the dimensions of the wood to compensate for the strength difference? I am also considering a routed channel in each cabane strut to run wires and plumbing rather than the typical zip tie method of keeping all the wing wire and plumbing runs secure? Will the routed out center of the cabane strut weaken its integrity and should it be made slightly larger to make up for the hollowed center? anyone have any recommendations I need to consider with the intended plan? Please provide your best advice in this intended material and slight design change. Thanks John ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Great Deals on Dell 15" Laptops - Starting at $479 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.