---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 03/29/09: 23 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:04 AM - wood strut weights (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 01:04 AM - fueling center section tank (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 03:50 AM - Re: fueling center section tank (helspersew@aol.com) 4. 03:59 AM - Re: fueling center section tank (gcardinal) 5. 07:34 AM - Re: Free Waldo Peppers Again! (Ron Franck) 6. 07:49 AM - Hand propping a 65 (walt) 7. 08:04 AM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (shad bell) 8. 08:11 AM - Re: fueling center section tank (shad bell) 9. 08:11 AM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Ameet Savant) 10. 09:49 AM - Re: Riblett Airfoil (conceptmodels tds.net) 11. 09:55 AM - Landing gear tubing size (Ryan Mueller) 12. 10:17 AM - Re: fueling center section tank (Rick Holland) 13. 10:24 AM - Re: fueling center section tank (Gene & Tammy) 14. 11:57 AM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Lagowski Morrow) 15. 02:16 PM - Re: Landing gear tubing size (walt) 16. 03:34 PM - Re: Landing gear tubing size (Ryan Mueller) 17. 05:32 PM - elongating holes (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 18. 05:43 PM - 41CC flight today (Oscar Zuniga) 19. 06:52 PM - Re: elongating holes () 20. 07:17 PM - Re: Landing gear tubing size (gcardinal) 21. 07:50 PM - Hand propping a 65 (Oscar Zuniga) 22. 07:51 PM - Re: fueling center section tank (Tim Willis) 23. 08:09 PM - Re: Landing gear tubing size (Ryan Mueller) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:38 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood strut weights I weighed my struts, with the steel end strap fittings and the bracing cables with associated hardware, including bolts. They weigh in a bit under 6 lbs each ( 5 lbs 12 oz). Someone gave an aprox weight for aluminum struts at just over 4 lbs. Havn't heard any weights yet for steel struts, but I'm guessing it won't be less than the wood, though it might not be much more. The strap fittings on each end are fairly substantial and undoubtedly add a lot of weight, whereas they can be integral and much simpler when using a steel strut. Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:43 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting up there without using a ladder? Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc ??? Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:50:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank From: helspersew@aol.com Douwe, I have been faced with this dilemma and will probably try to add some kind of permanent "refuling step"? made from aluminum streamline tubing. It will have to stick-out of the fuze at the approximate height of the top longeron. Otherwise it is near impossible to refuel without a ladder, especially because my filler neck is located at the thickest part of the tank, close to the center. It is hard to reach back there, and especially hard to see what you are doing. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL NX929DH -----Original Message----- From: Douwe Blumberg Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2009 3:06 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting up there without using a ladder? Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc ??? Thanks Douwe ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:59:38 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank The fuel tank filler neck on NX18235's center section tank is offset to the left for ease of fueling. Standing on the tire puts me at a height that allows me to easily place the fuel nozzle into the neck but not high enough to be able to see into the tank. A step built into the fuselage would have been a great help. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 3:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank > > > For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting > up > there without using a ladder? > > Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there > should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc > > ??? > > Thanks > > Douwe > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:25 AM PST US From: Ron Franck Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Free Waldo Peppers Again! After reading Tim Verthein's offer for a copy of Waldo Pepper I thought I'd see if my original DVD copy would transfer as well. It did copy and I'll make the same offer that Tim did. The copy will be on a DVD-R formated disc. This should play on 90% of the DVD players currently on the market. I have found that low quality players may not successfully play some DVD-R discs. If you have a higher end DVD player, you should be fine. These copies are crisp and clear. You won't be able to tell the difference from an original DVD. Each will feature full screen, Dolby Digital sound, captioned, and with Spanish and French subtitles, Region 1, scene index and features. I'm asking $2.00 a copy to cover the cost of the disc, sleeve and postage. I was at one time able to mail discs through the mail for the cost of a stamp, but the USPS now adds a $.20 surcharge for DVD's because they have to hand cancel each envelope. Contact me off list at franck(at)geneseo.net if you are interested. Put "Waldo" in the subject line and include your name and mailing address. I'll mail out the movie, you watch it and if you're satisfied, then you mail me the funds. Such a deal, huh? Ron ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:39 AM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter built from a battery drill. Anyone hear of any/all tips. PS I just want to touch a button. :^) walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:04:27 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 Walt, Look in the the Feb, or March Sport Aviation Magizine, there is a who le artical on it. - Shad --- On Sun, 3/29/09, walt wrote: From: walt Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter-built from a battery drill. Anyone hear of any/all tips. - PS I just want to touch a button.-- :^) - - walt evans NX140DL - - =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:52 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank Douwe, Our filler neck is back a little to far to be at an easy reach.- I have soaked my-canvas helmet-and my jacket 2 dozzen times from over ru nning the tank.- It runs right into the rear cockpit.- On a positive no te we only burn 100LL so it evaporates and doesn't leave that terrible auto gas smell in the clothes or seat cussion.- Put it as far forward as prac tcal, and watch out filling it on a hot summer day, when you spend 5 min tr ying to find the line boy to pay for your gas, you will come back to an ove r flowing vented fuel cap, and a wet seat. - Shad =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:11:52 AM PST US From: Ameet Savant Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 April 2009 Sport Aviation has a small article on two options you could buy. Very pricey! Here are the details: Harold Hamp: 7350 Osborn Rd Elwell, MI 48832 989-463-1762 The other is an Alan Eke System which was detailed in Aug 2006 issue. Regards, Ameet --- On Sun, 3/29/09, walt wrote: > From: walt > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 > To: Fishnet@topica.com, pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 9:49 AM > In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand > propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter > built from a battery drill. > Anyone hear of any/all tips. > > PS I just want to touch a button. :^) > > > walt evans > NX140DL ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil From: "conceptmodels tds.net" Al,My email address is: conceptmodels@tds.net Also Bill Rewey is more knowledgable than I, about the Riblett airfoil. He doesn't do email but can be reached at 608-833.5839 On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:04 PM, ALAN LYSCARS wrote: > Gents: > > Does anyone have Roman Bukolt's email address? > > I purchased the Riblett airfoil drawing from Roman a few years ago. I'm > just now setting up a jig to start building my ribs. I'm a little unsure on > a couple of points on building these ribs, and I need a little help. > > Thanks Fellows, > > Al Lyscars > Manchester, NH > > * > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:21 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size From: Ryan Mueller The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go, unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the consensus on the tubing thickness used? Ryan ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank From: Rick Holland I welded a couple of steps onto my left gear, copied the idea from a Piet at Broadhead. The rear one to help people get in the front cockpit and the front one (which is horizontal with the fuse down on the tailwheel) to get to the top of the CC. Of course this won't work too well with wooden gear. Rick On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: > douweblumberg@earthlink.net> > > For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting > up > there without using a ladder? > > Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there > should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc > > ??? > > Thanks > > Douwe > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:24:45 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank Sail boaters use folding mast steps that would work well. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Holland To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:15 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank I welded a couple of steps onto my left gear, copied the idea from a Piet at Broadhead. The rear one to help people get in the front cockpit and the front one (which is horizontal with the fuse down on the tailwheel) to get to the top of the CC. Of course this won't work too well with wooden gear. Rick On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:06 AM, Douwe Blumberg wrote: For those using a center section tank, what is your technique for getting up there without using a ladder? Never really paid attention to this before, but I'm now wondering if there should be a step somewhere or can you use the tire/strut etc ??? Thanks Douwe ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/28/09 07:16:00 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:23 AM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 The latest Sport Aviation or perhaps Sport Pilot has an article about the guy who did this and will do it for others. I talked to him and all he wants is~$1800 to do one for your plane--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: walt To: Fishnet@topica.com ; pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 In reading what's new on the fishnet group about hand propping a 65. it was discussed about an add-on starter built from a battery drill. Anyone hear of any/all tips. PS I just want to touch a button. :^) walt evans NX140DL ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/28/09 07:16:00 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:30 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size Did you look at the Pietenpol plans? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go, unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the consensus on the tubing thickness used? Ryan ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size From: Ryan Mueller Yes, hence I said the plans called for 14 gauge tubing. 1 3/8" diameter 14 gauge 1020 tubing, to be specific. I was looking at the 4130 sizes in the Wicks, ACS, and Airparts catalogs because they do not have 1020 in the OD needed (two don't even carry 1020). Is this a "substitute with a particular size of 4130 tubing" situation, or a "call Dillsburg Aero because no one else on the face of the earth carries 1 3/8" 14 gauge (.078) 1020 tubing anymore"? Ryan On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:14 PM, walt wrote: > Did you look at the Pietenpol plans? > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ryan Mueller > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size > > The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go, > unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in > preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing > thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from > ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the > consensus on the tubing thickness used? > > Ryan > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:21 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: Pietenpol-List: elongating holes Is it acceptable to elongate or oversize holes in order for some things to line up? I'm putting the hinges on the elevators and one of them isn't mat ching up quite right. I could either elongate /oversize the holes a bit or plug them and re-drill. This also came up when I attached the horiz. stab with the little metal brackets - didn't quite line up perfectly. Guess I' m not drilling straight or something. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:43:43 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: 41CC flight today I took 41CC up this afternoon for the first time in two months. It's been wayyyy too long but I had some squawks to take care of after the annual con dition inspection and then we had some medical issues in the family that ha ve been taking lots of my time. But today was the day and all the "essenti al to safety of flight" squawks were taken care of and it was time to go up . I'll wait and change the pop rivets on the fuel valve handle another tim e=2C and I'll live with the tach cable the way it is for awhile too. We had a stiff and gusty south breeze=2C pretty much straight down the runw ay=2C and the airplane jumped right off the ground. Everything worked pret ty as you please=2C I did three very nice landings on the grass=2C and am v ery happy with the smoothness and harmony of the controls. I rerigged all the tail surfaces since I had decided to pull the turnbuckles off and insta ll some missing washers=2C proper cotter pins=2C and change out some mismat ched hardware here and there. I also found a discarded shoe on the side of the road on the way to the airport and I pinked out two leather rub patche s and glued them to the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer where the elevator cables touch. Voila=3B no more wear spots. The Piet is such an enjoyable airplane to fly and to work on. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:19 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: elongating holes I would plug and re-drill Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:29 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: elongating holes Is it acceptable to elongate or oversize holes in order for some things to line up? I'm putting the hinges on the elevators and one of them isn't matching up quite right. I could either elongate /oversize the holes a bit or plug them and re-drill. This also came up when I attached the horiz. stab with the little metal brackets - didn't quite line up perfectly. Guess I'm not drilling straight or something. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:44 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size Ryan, 14 ga. tubing is .083 and is available from Dillsburg. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size Yes, hence I said the plans called for 14 gauge tubing. 1 3/8" diameter 14 gauge 1020 tubing, to be specific. I was looking at the 4130 sizes in the Wicks, ACS, and Airparts catalogs because they do not have 1020 in the OD needed (two don't even carry 1020). Is this a "substitute with a particular size of 4130 tubing" situation, or a "call Dillsburg Aero because no one else on the face of the earth carries 1 3/8" 14 gauge (.078) 1020 tubing anymore"? Ryan On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:14 PM, walt wrote: Did you look at the Pietenpol plans? walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go, unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the consensus on the tubing thickness used? Ryan href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List a>http://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:19 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 Propping the engine is something I have mixed feelings about. On one hand =2C I like the utter simplicity of having no electrics=2C no starter=2C no gadgets and no messing about. On the other hand=2C I worry about the engin e stopping sometime with only moments to spare for a retry in flight=2C and not being able to give it another try at starting by just punching a butto n or pulling a handle. It's not really something I should worry about... they always say the main thing to do when the engine quits is to fly the airplane and not worry with gadgets that might distract. I have found my airplane to be extremely sim ple and fuss-free=2C easy and quick to start now that I know the drill=2C a nd not at all difficult to prop. I also think it adds an aura of "old time -ness" to the whole flight when it begins with a hand-prop. It's how I lea rned to fly and it always works. On the other hand=2C there is a lot to be said for being in the cockpit=2C strapped in=2C brakes set=2C and in control of everything when the engine i s lit. There is no doubt that electric (or other automatic) starters have something to be said for them. For now=2C though=2C I'm starter-free and h appy with that. I sure wouldn't pay $1800 for a starter unless I lost the physical ability to prop my airplane=2C and then I might be out of luck fly ing entirely. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:55 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank This is a problem I have not had to solve, thank goodness. I have a picture somewhere of a fellow using a short plywood scaffold board to refuel his Piet's center wing tank. As you likely know, any proper "scaffold board" has boards on the underside, at each end of the main plank, at the overhangs, so the board cannot slide off each end. In this case the plank is sited across the upper longerons at the rear of the pilot's seat. The pilot can then stand very high and see everything while filling the upper tank. That would work very well at the home hangar, esp. on Piets without upholstery there. However, where would you carry the board for trips? You don't want it underfoot in the cockpits, and you don't want it behind the pilot for CG reasons. And of course, wherever it might go, it has to be firmly affixed in its storage agea, and well away from cables, bellcranks, etc., for in-flight safety. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: gcardinal >Sent: Mar 29, 2009 5:58 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: fueling center section tank > > >The fuel tank filler neck on NX18235's center section tank is offset to the >left for ease of fueling. >Standing on the tire puts me at a height that allows me to easily place the >fuel nozzle into the neck but not high enough to be able to see into the >tank. A step built into the fuselage would have been a great help. >Greg Cardinal ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size From: Ryan Mueller Well, that's what I get for not doing things myself. :P There were three people gathered around the Machinery Handbook, whilst I checked the gauge listed on the plans. I should have verified that they were looking at the correct chart (three relatively experienced people, one who is a metalworker). Hmm, I'll have to check myself :P Thanks Greg. Ryan On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 9:14 PM, gcardinal wrote: > *Ryan,* > ** > *14 ga. tubing is .083 and is available from Dillsburg.* > ** > *Greg Cardinal* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Ryan Mueller > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2009 5:28 PM > *Subject:* Re: Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size > > Yes, hence I said the plans called for 14 gauge tubing. 1 3/8" diameter 14 > gauge 1020 tubing, to be specific. I was looking at the 4130 sizes in the > Wicks, ACS, and Airparts catalogs because they do not have 1020 in the OD > needed (two don't even carry 1020). > > Is this a "substitute with a particular size of 4130 tubing" situation, or > a "call Dillsburg Aero because no one else on the face of the earth carries > 1 3/8" 14 gauge (.078) 1020 tubing anymore"? > > Ryan > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 4:14 PM, walt wrote: > >> Did you look at the Pietenpol plans? >> walt evans >> NX140DL >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> *From:* Ryan Mueller >> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> *Sent:* Sunday, March 29, 2009 12:54 PM >> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Landing gear tubing size >> >> The split axle gear that came with our project is not good to go, >> unfortunately. We were scrutinizing the plans yesterday afternoon in >> preparation for ordering tubing to fabricate new gear vees. The tubing >> thickness called for is 14 gauge, which translates to .0785". The 4130 from >> ACS, Wicks, Airparts, etc comes in either .065 or .095. What is the >> consensus on the tubing thickness used? >> >> Ryan >> >> * >> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank"> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> a> http://forums.matronics.com >> _blank"> http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c* > > * > > * > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.