---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 03/31/09: 34 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:48 AM - Wood Adhesion (Ameet Savant) 2. 05:06 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (Gene Rambo) 3. 05:19 AM - hand propping (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 4. 06:10 AM - Re: hand propping (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 5. 06:17 AM - Hand propping a 65 (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 06:37 AM - some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 06:56 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (Robert Gow) 8. 07:51 AM - Re: hand propping (Ryan Mueller) 9. 08:06 AM - Re: hand propping (Dick N.) 10. 08:18 AM - Re: Riblett Airfoil (Michael Perez) 11. 08:25 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (H RULE) 12. 08:26 AM - Re: hand propping (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 13. 08:35 AM - Re: hand propping (H RULE) 14. 08:42 AM - Re: hand propping (H RULE) 15. 09:05 AM - Re: hand propping (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 16. 09:56 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (Mac Zirges) 17. 10:13 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (bike.mike@comcast.net) 18. 10:27 AM - Re: hand propping (skellytown flyer) 19. 11:16 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in Californi (Don Emch) 20. 11:19 AM - Re: Re: hand propping (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 21. 11:38 AM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Lagowski Morrow) 22. 12:04 PM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (H RULE) 23. 12:51 PM - Fuselage Plywood (chase143) 24. 01:21 PM - Re: Fuselage Plywood (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 25. 01:21 PM - Re: Fuselage Plywood (jack phillips) 26. 01:26 PM - Re: hand propping (Ryan Mueller) 27. 01:38 PM - Re: hand propping story (shad bell) 28. 02:04 PM - Re: hand propping story (Jack T. Textor) 29. 02:11 PM - Re: Fuselage Plywood (Bill Church) 30. 02:12 PM - Re: Fuselage Plywood (Kip and Beth Gardner) 31. 06:56 PM - hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper (Oscar Zuniga) 32. 07:01 PM - Thanks (Lagowski Morrow) 33. 08:04 PM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Clif Dawson) 34. 08:11 PM - Re: hand propping (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:34 AM PST US From: Ameet Savant Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Adhesion Hello all, Here is a link to the results of a wood adhesion study I came across. It is a pretty good read. I am looking at other parts of the website. It certainly has some really good information about wood in general. http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/pdf1997/vick97a.pdf Regards, Ameet Savant ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:06:24 AM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California the routing is per the original plans! Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Mike, I recognize my old stompin' grounds.Thanks! .interesting routing of the aileron cables.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 11:31 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708 Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO To search FAA registrations go here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:19:36 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross coun try trips assures me that the airplane will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the tailwheel an d then to either a tie down anchor in the pavement or a nearby fence post. I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) prop you r airplane but yourself. I have had people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea what they were doing and were not only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add to thi s, most times those people didn't get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know for a fact that a person is experienced at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself either. I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big old leg swing to prop a little Continental engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big leg k ick and if timed properly and you have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be actuall y able to prop the thing with one hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big theatrical l eg kick helped back in the days when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's and d idn't require any off-balance leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on the pr op while stepping away from it with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- not bal ancing on one foot and hoping you don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever works fo r you. The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters for airplanes and cars. :)) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:21 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping Mike, I agree about letting just anyone hand prop. The military flying club where I learned to fly had an actual hand propping "Class" that you were required to pass. Not difficult but you had to take it in order to go in the Piper cub. Rules I quickly remember: Pilot behid stick. not a wuffo no hats or floppy shirt tails. we did the leg swing but mostly as a reminder to be moving away from the prop after swinging it. Never run around the plane. (actually never run on the ramp.) When the "Pilot" says "hot" his hand is on the mag switch, when "cold" his hand is visible to the "Propper" NEVER RUSH the proceedures! Blue Skies and safe propping, Steve D ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping > > I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on > cross country trips assures me that the airplane > will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the > tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in > the pavement or a nearby fence post. > > I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) > prop your airplane but yourself. I have had > people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no > idea what they were doing and were not > only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To > add to this, most times those people didn't > get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you > know for a fact that a person is experienced > at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself > either. > I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a > big old leg swing to prop a little Continental > engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a > big leg kick and if timed properly and you > have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should > be actually able to prop the thing with one > hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big > theatrical leg kick helped back in the days > when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped > Stearman's and didn't require any off-balance > leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down > on the prop while stepping away from it > with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- > not balancing on one foot and hoping you > don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever > works for you. > > The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric > starters for airplanes and cars. :)) > > Mike C. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:49 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 Jim=3B the way I start my 65 is pretty specific to the Stromberg NA-S3A1 ca rb. What carb do you have on yours? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:37:01 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Mikeee- that is truly a gorgeous airplane=2C and a very interesting aileron cable setup. Sure makes it easy to inspect and service the cables and pul leys! The one thing that puzzles me is the apparent thrust-line of the engine. I t sure seems to be cocked down but maybe that's just the angle of the photo s or something. Look at the line of the top longerons and then the line of the head or the prop axis. I guess that's the way they're setup though... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:25 AM PST US From: "Robert Gow" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California There is a deliberate downward cant to the engine (memory says 3 degrees but it may be more). This is to allow the thrust line to line up with the direction of flight more directly in a climb. At least that's according to the article in the Flying and Glider manual. I guess with 36 horsepower he thought he could use any advantage at all. Bob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: March 31, 2009 8:32 AM To: Pietenpol List Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Mikeee- that is truly a gorgeous airplane, and a very interesting aileron cable setup. Sure makes it easy to inspect and service the cables and pulleys! The one thing that puzzles me is the apparent thrust-line of the engine. It sure seems to be cocked down but maybe that's just the angle of the photos or something. Look at the line of the top longerons and then the line of the head or the prop axis. I guess that's the way they're setup though... Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:51:58 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping From: Ryan Mueller Mike, I agree about the leg kick being an unnecessary thing that's picked up from the movies. In addition to being unnecessary, it also makes the whole process more dangerous. When your leg is coming back down and swinging behind you, the natural movement for your torso to make is to lean forward. You actually end up bringing your upper body closer to the path of the propeller with that ridiculous method. One thing I still haven't gotten used to, since getting hitched, is propping with a wedding ring. I always take it off and slip it in my pocket, as I don't want to scratch the finish on the prop. :P Ryan On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 7:14 AM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > > I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross > country trips assures me that the airplane > will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the tailwheel > and then to either a tie down anchor in > the pavement or a nearby fence post. > > I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) prop > your airplane but yourself. I have had > people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea what > they were doing and were not > only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add to > this, most times those people didn't > get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know for a > fact that a person is experienced > at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself either. > > I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big old leg > swing to prop a little Continental > engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big leg > kick and if timed properly and you > have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be > actually able to prop the thing with one > hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big theatrical > leg kick helped back in the days > when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's and > didn't require any off-balance > leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on the > prop while stepping away from it > with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- not > balancing on one foot and hoping you > don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever works > for you. > > The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters > for airplanes and cars. :)) > > Mike C. > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:50 AM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping Mike I pretty much agree with your thoughts. Having wire wheels, I carry 2 nylon cargo straps which get tucked under the seat while flying. I tie from the rear cabane strut, around the top of the wheel and back to the cabane. one on each side. It keeps the wheels locked in place. Also the country really went downhill when teachers lost the paddle in the classroom. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 7:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross country trips assures me that the airplane will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in the pavement or a nearby fence post. I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) prop your airplane but yourself. I have had people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea what they were doing and were not only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add to this, most times those people didn't get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know for a fact that a person is experienced at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself either. I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big old leg swing to prop a little Continental engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big leg kick and if timed properly and you have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be actually able to prop the thing with one hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big theatrical leg kick helped back in the days when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's and didn't require any off-balance leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on the prop while stepping away from it with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- not balancing on one foot and hoping you don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever works for you. The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters for airplanes and cars. :)) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:18:10 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Riblett Airfoil I agree with Ryan, Al. You use the same rib jig for all the ribs. The only difference are the extra cap strip pieces that are shown on the Riblett pla n as well as the Pietenpol plan for the end ribs. (the last wing rib before the center section and the last rib at the wing tip.) - Build the entire wing with all the aileron Pisces in place. Then using a sm all hand saw, cut the aileron free. Once free finish up the cut areas both on the free aileron as well as the aileron bay on the wing as per the print s. (As Ryan said. We are referring to the Pietenpol prints.) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:00 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Yup that's the way the engine is supposed to be mounted on the Piet and the GN-1 Aircamper.No mistake about it that's right in the directions.=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Oscar Zuniga =0ATo: Pietenpol List =0ASent: Tue sday, March 31, 2009 9:32:27 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous ph otos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California=0A=0AMikeee- that is truly a gorgeous airplane, and a very interesting aileron cable setup.- Sure make s it easy to inspect and service the cables and pulleys!=0A-=0AThe one th ing that puzzles me is the apparent thrust-line of the engine.- It sure s eems to be cocked down but maybe that's just the angle of the photos or som ething.- Look at the line of the top longerons and then the line of the h ead or the prop axis.- I guess that's the way they're setup though...=0A -=0AOscar Zuniga=0AAir Camper NX41CC=0ASan Antonio, TX=0Amailto: taildrag =============== ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:06 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping Great posts about the wedding ring Ryan and paddling kids in school Dick N. ! What about when they let women vote and start smoking ? :)))) Uh boy, I can hear the bleeding heart liberals now thinking I might be actu ally serious. PS...take a break, unwind undies. I am just KIDDING. PSS---- I re-read my post and by no means did I mean to belittle the seriou sness of hand propping an airplane nor did I want to make fun of those incredibly brave men who flew early hand-propped airplanes both in civilian and military roles by likening them to my grandmother's ability to hand prop but if you do it, just try to learn from someone who r eally knows what they are doing and practice it on a dead engine somewhere safe with the plug wires disconnected and the fuel off. Hand pr opping is still a super serious thing and the one post put it best---- take your time, think thru each step. If you're in a rush, don't fly. Go home and have some chips. Take 5, chock the plane, tie it down, do anything but rush. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:06 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping With an electric starter it just means that you old guys can fly longer!=0A =0A=0A=0AThe whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters for airplanes and cars.-- :))=0A-=0AMike C.=0A-=0A-=0A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:42:49 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping There was a man that used to come to our RAA meetings.One day he happened t o just move his prop to the horizontal position and it fired and almost kil led him.The prop stuck his head and caved part of it in.He doesn't fly anym ore or come to our meetings.Be careful out there when touching props in any manner.You never know when a mag off switch is going to fail or if there i s gas in the chamber or when it will fire.Always treat a prop like you woul d a loaded gun,never assume anything.=0A=0Aarchive this=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_____ ___________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerosp ace Corporation]" =0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics. com" =0ASent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:25:4 2 AM=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping=0A=0A=0AGreat posts about the wedding ring Ryan and paddling kids in school Dick N.-- !--- -- What about when they let women vote and start smoking ?- :))))=0A -=0AUh boy, I can hear the bleeding heart liberals now thinking I might b e actually serious.-- PS...take a break, unwind undies.- I am just KI DDING. =0A-=0APSS---- I re-read my post and by no means did I mean to bel ittle the seriousness of hand propping an airplane nor did I want to make f un=0Aof those incredibly brave men who flew early hand-propped airplanes bo th in civilian and military roles by likening them to my grandmother's=0Aab ility to hand prop but if you do it, just try to learn from someone who rea lly knows what they are doing and practice it on a dead engine=0Asomewhere safe with the plug wires disconnected and the fuel off.-- Hand propping is still a super serious thing and the one post put it best----=0Atake you r time, think thru each step.-- If you're in a rush, don't fly.-- - Go home and have some chips.-- Take 5, chock the plane, tie it down =============== ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:05:53 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping A fellow in the Amarillo, TX area has had two incidents with moving a prop and the engine starting. First time he was turning the prop to "Break the oil loose" on a somewhat cool day and his tripacer started and taxied into a Cessna 182 with 3 pax waiting for the pilot to finish paying for fuel. No one was hurt but both planes were damages. They think he had accidently hit the mag switch onto one mag while loading the plane. I heard it happen, and when I stuck my head outside there was still aluminium flying. Sounded like someone putting a mower on a steel fencepost. Second time he had a single seat homebuilt and was turning the prop and it fired. He dove out of the way and the plane taxied down the runway at an angle and tookoff. but the wheels caught on a Bobwire fence and the plane flipped onto railroad tracks. No train was coming and the plane wreckage was rescured. I think he has quit flying. He had a good reputation as a safe pilot and was otherwise respected. Blue Skies, Steve D. ----- Original Message ----- From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping > There was a man that used to come to our RAA meetings.One day he > happened to just move his prop to the horizontal position and it > fired and almost killed him.The prop stuck his head and caved part > of it in.He doesn't fly anymore or come to our meetings.Be careful > out there when touching props in any manner.You never know when a > mag off switch is going to fail or if there is gas in the chamber > or when it will fire.Always treat a prop like you would a loaded > gun,never assume anything. > > archive this > > > > > ________________________________ > From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" < > To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" < > Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:25:42 AM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping > > > Great posts about the wedding ring Ryan and paddling kids in school Dick N. ! What about when they let women vote and start smoking ? :)))) > > Uh boy, I can hear the bleeding heart liberals now thinking I might be actually serious. PS...take a break, unwind undies. I am just KIDDING. > > PSS---- I re-read my post and by no means did I mean to belittle the seriousness of hand propping an airplane nor did I want to make fun > of those incredibly brave men who flew early hand-propped airplanes both in civilian and military roles by likening them to my grandmother's > ability to hand prop but if you do it, just try to learn from someone who really knows what they are doing and practice it on a dead engine > somewhere safe with the plug wires disconnected and the fuel off. Hand propping is still a super serious thing and the one post put it best---- > take your time, think thru each step. If you're in a rush, don't fly. Go home and have some chips. Take 5, chock the plane, tie it down=============== ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:56:40 AM PST US From: "Mac Zirges" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury struts--and it will make it easier for passengers to get in also since he can then remove the crosswires at front cockpit side. Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708 Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO To search FAA registrations go here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/ ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12:00 AM ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:11 AM PST US From: bike.mike@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California I believe you're thinking of the cabane brace struts that tie the top of the cabanes to the engine mounts, maintaining wing fore/aft position. Jury struts stabilize the lift struts near (but not at) mid span of the struts. NX12988 does have jury struts. The cross-bracing cables by the passenger cockpit are what is specified in the original plans. NX12988 looks beautifully plans-built. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mac Zirges" Sent: Monday, January 1, 1990 2:02:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury struts--and it will make it easier for passengers to get in also since he can then remove the crosswires at front cockpit side. Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708 Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO To search FAA registrations go here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:12 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hand propping From: "skellytown flyer" Steven I tried to e-mail you but the address didn't work-do you live in Amarillo? I'm 50 miles away.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237057#237057 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:16:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in Californi From: "Don Emch" It has jury struts. Those are the ones out on the main struts. The original plans show the brace cables between the cabanes on the right side. Walt tried to keep it as original to the plans (Flying and Glider Manual) as possible. Heck he even used an N number from one of Mr. Pietenpol's ships. That particular one though had the steel split axle gear. Sure is a pretty ship! Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237063#237063 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:58 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: hand propping Raymond, I think we discussed a Piet that is in a museum in Canadian at some point in the past. ----- Original Message ----- From: skellytown flyer Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: hand propping > > Steven I tried to e-mail you but the address didn't work-do you live in Amarillo? I'm 50 miles away.Raymond > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237057#237057 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:38:30 AM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 Oscar, my carb is the same as yours, NA-S3A1, per my engine log book.-Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:16 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 Jim; the way I start my 65 is pretty specific to the Stromberg NA-S3A1 carb. What carb do you have on yours? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/31/09 06:02:00 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:30 PM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 I am greatly disapointed.I didn't even get a rise out of you guys with my remark about starters for old guys so you can fly longer.That's my excuse for flying as an old guy! do not archive ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:37 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood From: "chase143" Hello all, I apologize if this has been asked but there was little in the archive regarding plywood preferences for the fuselage large pieces. I cant seem to find sitka spruce (preferred) in large sheets. Does anyone have a good source and/or recommendations for/against the following 3 choices from Boulter? Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn Okoume, Rotary Cut White Birch, Rotary Cut Thanks, Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237080#237080 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:27 PM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood LOL, at first glance this looked like an email from Kenya asking me to help get $10million out of the country by givng them my bank account number. Blue Skies, Steve D. > > Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn > Okoume, Rotary Cut > White Birch, Rotary Cut > > Thanks, > Steve > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:36 PM PST US From: jack phillips Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood Hi Steve, =C2- I used mahagony (1/8") for the sides and birch (1/4") for the floor.=C2- Birch is stronger, mahogany is lighter. =C2- Jack Phillips NX899JP --- On Tue, 3/31/09, chase143 wrote: From: chase143 Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood Hello all, I apologize if this has been asked but there was little in the archive regarding plywood preferences for the fuselage large pieces. I can=C3=A2 =82=AC=84=A2t seem to find sitka spruce (preferred) in large sheets. Does anyone have a good s ource and/or recommendations for/against the following 3 choices from Boulter? Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn Okoume, Rotary Cut White Birch, Rotary Cut Thanks, Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237080#237080 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 01:26:45 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping From: Ryan Mueller Breaking the oil loose, eh? You would think that even on the coldest day in Texas the starter would have the oomph to overcome the friction from all that solidified oil... ;) I think one of the things that this gentleman's tales of woe illustrates is to avoid complacency. One should strive to not become complacent in the air; there is no reason to not have the same mindset on the ground. If you are going to be moving the propeller, there is absolutely no reason to not take the time to step around to the cockpit/cabin and verify that the switches are off, the throttle is closed, etc. If you are pulling the engine through before you go flying you should verify those conditions. If you are turning the prop into a particular position after you have shutdown, then you should have verified those conditions when you exited the aircraft. As Mike pointed out, take your time and be deliberate about the act of hand-propping an airplane. As they used to tell us on the rifle ranges: slow is smooth, and smooth is fast. And as Harvey stated, treat every propeller as if it is loaded. And never point your propeller at anything that you do not intend to fly....or something like that. :) Ryan On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote: > steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> > > A fellow in the Amarillo, TX area has had two incidents with moving a prop > and the engine starting. > > First time he was turning the prop to "Break the oil loose" on a somewhat > cool day and his tripacer started and taxied into a Cessna 182 with 3 pax > waiting for the pilot to finish paying for fuel. No one was hurt but both > planes were damages. They think he had accidently hit the mag switch onto > one mag while loading the plane. I heard it happen, and when I stuck my head > outside there was still aluminium flying. Sounded like someone putting a > mower on a steel fencepost. > > Second time he had a single seat homebuilt and was turning the prop and it > fired. He dove out of the way and the plane taxied down the runway at an > angle and tookoff. but the wheels caught on a Bobwire fence and the plane > flipped onto railroad tracks. No train was coming and the plane wreckage was > rescured. > > I think he has quit flying. He had a good reputation as a safe pilot and > was otherwise respected. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:00 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping story When I was a kid (17 or 18) and the line boy,-I remember having a very cl ose call while handpropping a tricycle gear cessna 150.- The ramp was wet ashphalt and some one left the master on for 3 or 4 hrs.-I don't think -the guy in the cockpit knew his ass from his elbow when it came to start ing an engine.- Long story short He had the throttle set wrong (wide open ) and I tried and tried to get it started by hand propping it.- Eventuall y a old timer came out and chastized me for not having someone sit on the t ail to get more of a taildragger stance, and he sat on it.- Well a few ba ldes later after exausting myself-I slipped and went right on my back und er the prop.- Thank God I thought quick enough to let go of the prop on t he way down, so it did not go through compression.- That was the only clo se call I have had with props,-except for-some old fart at Brodhead las t year wanting to try on the piet for size and he hit the starter button wi th his knee while climbing out, and dad got whacked in the arm by the prop.- Pr ops are inherintly dangerous if you got a electric starter or you hand prop they will get you if you are not careful. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:52 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: hand propping story From: "Jack T. Textor" When I worked at Elliott Flying Service going through college, we had a guy and his partner prop a Bellanca, 6 cylinder, not sure of the size. Full throttle, brakes couldn't hold, he went through a fence and into the line office. Lot's of damage to plane and property, lucky no people were injured! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 02:11:02 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood From: "Bill Church" U3RldmUsDQoNCkkndmUgbmV2ZXIgZXZlbiBoZWFyZCBvZiBTaXRrYSBwbHl3b29kLg0KSSBoYXZl bid0IGJ1aWx0IG15IGZ1c2VsYWdlIHlldCwgYnV0IEkgZGlkIGJ1eSBteSBwbHl3b29kIGZvciBp dC4gSSBib3VnaHQgT2tvdW1lIE1hcmluZSBQbHkgZnJvbSBOb2FoJ3MgTWFyaW5lLCBiYXNlZCBv biBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyBmcm9tIHRoZSBMaXN0Lg0KDQogaHR0cDovL3d3dy5ub2Foc21hcmluZS5j b20vaHRtbC9jX3NwbGFzaC5odG1sDQoNCklmIHlvdSdyZSB1c2luZyBwbHl3b29kIGZvciBzdHJ1 Y3R1cmFsIHVzZSBpbiBhbiBhaXJwbGFuZSwgeW91IHJlYWxseSBzaG91bGQgYmUgdXNpbmcgYSBw bHl3b29kIHRoYXQgaXMgbWFudWZhY3R1cmVkIHVzaW5nIHdhdGVycHJvb2YgYWRoZXNpdmVzLg0K Qm90aCBBaXJjcmFmdCBQbHkgYW5kIE1hcmluZSBQbHkgdXNlIHdhdGVycHJvb2YgKGFjdHVhbGx5 IGJvaWwtcHJvb2YpIGFkaGVzaXZlcyBleGNsdXNpdmVseS4NCkkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyBpZiBCb3Vs dGVyJ3MgV2hpdGUgQmlyY2ggUGx5IGlzIG1hZGUgd2l0aCB3YXRlcnByb29mIGdsdWVzLg0KDQpP a291bWUgaXMgYSBiaXQgbGlnaHRlciB0aGFuIEJpcmNoIChpbiBkZW5zaXR5KSwgYW5kIEJpcmNo IGlzIGxpZ2h0ZXIgdGhhbiBPa291bWUgKGluIGNvbG9yKS4gU28sIHdoYXRldmVyIHlvdSBkbywg Y2hvb3NlIHRoZSBsaWdodGVyIG9uZSAgOikNCg0KSSdtIG5vdCBmYW1pbGlhciB3aXRoIEtoYXlh LCBidXQgZnJvbSBCb3VsdGVyJ3Mgd2Vic2l0ZSBkZXNjcmlwdGlvbiwgaXQgaXMgcHJvYmFibHkg c2ltaWxhciB0byB0aGUgT2tvdW1lLCBidXQgbmljZXIgbG9va2luZywgYW5kIHF1aXRlIGEgYml0 IG1vcmUgZXhwZW5zaXZlLg0KDQpQZW9wbGUgaGF2ZSBidWlsdCBzdWNjZXNzZnVsIFBpZXRzIHVz aW5nIGxvdHMgb2YgZGlmZmVyZW50IGtpbmRzIG9mIHBseXdvb2RzLiBJIGhhdmUgcmVhZCBhYm91 dCBzb21lIGJ1aWxkZXJzIHVzaW5nIG1haG9oYW55IGRvb3Igc2tpbnMuIFByZXR0eSBzdXJlIHRo b3NlIGFyZW4ndCBtYWRlIHdpdGggd2F0ZXJwcm9vZiBnbHVlcywgdGhvdWdoLg0KDQpCaWxsIEMu DQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1s aXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tIFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItcGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3Qtc2Vy dmVyQG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb21dIE9uIEJlaGFsZiBPZiBjaGFzZTE0Mw0KU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwg TWFyY2ggMzEsIDIwMDkgMzo1MSBQTQ0KVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20N ClN1YmplY3Q6IFBpZXRlbnBvbC1MaXN0OiBGdXNlbGFnZSBQbHl3b29kDQoNCi0tPiBQaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdCBtZXNzYWdlIHBvc3RlZCBieTogImNoYXNlMTQzIiA8Y2hhc2UxNDNAYW9sLmNvbT4N Cg0KSGVsbG8gYWxsLA0KSSBhcG9sb2dpemUgaWYgdGhpcyBoYXMgYmVlbiBhc2tlZCBidXQgdGhl cmUgd2FzIGxpdHRsZSBpbiB0aGUgYXJjaGl2ZSByZWdhcmRpbmcgcGx5d29vZCBwcmVmZXJlbmNl cyBmb3IgdGhlIGZ1c2VsYWdlIGxhcmdlIHBpZWNlcy4gSSBjYW7DouKCrOKEonQgc2VlbSB0byBm aW5kIHNpdGthIHNwcnVjZSAocHJlZmVycmVkKSBpbiBsYXJnZSBzaGVldHMuIERvZXMgYW55b25l IGhhdmUgYSBnb29kIHNvdXJjZSBhbmQvb3IgcmVjb21tZW5kYXRpb25zIGZvci9hZ2FpbnN0IHRo ZSBmb2xsb3dpbmcgMyBjaG9pY2VzIGZyb20gQm91bHRlcj8NCg0KS2hheWEgQWZyaWNhbiBNYWhv Z2FueSwgRmxhdCBTYXduDQpPa291bWUsIFJvdGFyeSBDdXQNCldoaXRlIEJpcmNoLCBSb3Rhcnkg Q3V0DQoNClRoYW5rcywNClN0ZXZlDQoNCg0KDQoNClJlYWQgdGhpcyB0b3BpYyBvbmxpbmUgaGVy ZToNCg0KaHR0cDovL2ZvcnVtcy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL3ZpZXd0b3BpYy5waHA/cD0yMzcwODAj MjM3MDgwDQoNCg0KDQoNCg0KDQoNCl8tPT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09DQpfLT0gICAgICAgICAgLSBUaGUgUGlldGVucG9s LUxpc3QgRW1haWwgRm9ydW0gLQ0KXy09IFVzZSB0aGUgTWF0cm9uaWNzIExpc3QgRmVhdHVyZXMg TmF2aWdhdG9yIHRvIGJyb3dzZSBfLT0gdGhlIG1hbnkgTGlzdCB1dGlsaXRpZXMgc3VjaCBhcyBM aXN0IFVuL1N1YnNjcmlwdGlvbiwgXy09IEFyY2hpdmUgU2VhcmNoICYgRG93bmxvYWQsIDctRGF5 IEJyb3dzZSwgQ2hhdCwgRkFRLCBfLT0gUGhvdG9zaGFyZSwgYW5kIG11Y2ggbXVjaCBtb3JlOg0K Xy09DQpfLT0gICAtLT4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5tYXRyb25pY3MuY29tL05hdmlnYXRvcj9QaWV0ZW5w b2wtTGlzdA0KXy09DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLSBNQVRST05JQ1MgV0VCIEZP UlVNUyAtDQpfLT0gU2FtZSBncmVhdCBjb250ZW50IGFsc28gYXZhaWxhYmxlIHZpYSB0aGUgV2Vi IEZvcnVtcyENCl8tPQ0KXy09ICAgLS0+IGh0dHA6Ly9mb3J1bXMubWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbQ0KXy09 DQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PQ0KXy09ICAgICAgICAgICAgIC0gTGlzdCBDb250cmlidXRpb24gV2ViIFNpdGUgLQ0K Xy09ICBUaGFuayB5b3UgZm9yIHlvdXIgZ2VuZXJvdXMgc3VwcG9ydCENCl8tPSAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIC1NYXR0IERyYWxsZSwgTGlzdCBBZG1pbi4NCl8tPSAgIC0tPiBo dHRwOi8vd3d3Lm1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20vY29udHJpYnV0aW9uDQpfLT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09 PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KDQoNCg0K ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:59 PM PST US From: Kip and Beth Gardner Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage Plywood Just make sure you get a type that's glued with the correct glue. It's been a long time since i looked into this, but there is some kind of Lloyd's or British Mil. Spec. rating that indicates the correct adhesive. Kip Gardner On Mar 31, 2009, at 4:20 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote: > NGB" > > LOL, at first glance this looked like an email from Kenya asking me > to help get $10million out of the country by givng them my bank > account number. > > Blue Skies, > Steve D. > >> >> Khaya African Mahogany, Flat Sawn >> Okoume, Rotary Cut >> White Birch, Rotary Cut >> >> Thanks, >> Steve >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 06:56:39 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper I'm nearly certain that I saw a scene in TGWP where an airplane is propped and the pilot reaches over to work the ignition switches which are located on the outside of the cockpit. It's not the first time I've seen mag switc hes on the outside of those old-timey planes=2C either. Now there's a way to ensure that the propper knows the condition of the mags=2C hot or cold: they are clearly visible to him/her. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:34 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Thanks Thanks guys for the comments on hand propping! Much appreciated. I'll be careful. Looking forward to real Spring. Sunday it was another blast of heavy, wet snow up here in N.W. Michigan. A local avionics friend helped me put together an intercom rig , in anticipation my first '09 flight. Jim Lagowski Do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:27 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 You're not old till you get dates by telling the ladies that you're licenced to drive at night. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: H RULE I am greatly disapointed.I didn't even get a rise out of you guys with my remark about starters for old guys so you can fly longer.That's my excuse for flying as an old guy! do not archive ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 03/31/09 13:05:00 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 08:11:30 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping The Tigermoths I've seen, like this one, have the mag switches on the outside ahead of the pilots windshield where they're visible to the prop man. Clif ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 1:25 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propping If you are going to be moving the propeller, there is absolutely no reason to not take the time to step around to the cockpit/cabin and verify that the switches are off, the throttle is closed, etc. Ryan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.