Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:03 AM - oukume plywood (Douwe Blumberg)
2. 04:20 AM - Re: hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper (Skip Gadd)
3. 04:21 AM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (H RULE)
4. 05:32 AM - Re: Fuselage Plywood (chase143)
5. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Plywood (jack phillips)
6. 06:18 AM - Re: hand propping (Gene Rambo)
7. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Plywood (Bill Church)
8. 11:35 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (Mac Zirges)
9. 11:56 AM - Hand propping a 65 (Oscar Zuniga)
10. 11:58 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (H RULE)
11. 01:18 PM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Lagowski Morrow)
12. 01:34 PM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Jeff Boatright)
13. 01:34 PM - hand proping (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
14. 02:21 PM - Re: hand proping (H RULE)
15. 02:38 PM - Re: hand proping (walt)
16. 04:36 PM - Re: hand proping (H RULE)
17. 06:10 PM - Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? (shad bell)
18. 10:06 PM - Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? (jorge lizarraga)
19. 11:02 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
20. 11:07 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
Message 1
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Most boat builders are going with Oukume plywood these days. It is very
strong, stiff and exceptionally lightweight. It's a newer wood on the scene
than the old standbyes, but it is good stuff.
Two minor drawbacks. It is more suseptible to rot than the others, so when
used in a boat, must be well varnished. Shouldn't matter in a plane, just
varnish carefully as you would anyways. Second drawback is it's odd pinkish
color. I'm not sure I'd like it in my cockpits, though one could likely
play around with some stain and fix it.
If I were building again, I'd use it for as much as possible.
Douwe
Message 2
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Subject: | hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper |
Larry Williams model A Piet has this setup.
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
the ignition switches which are located on the outside of the cockpit. Now there's
a way to ensure that the propper knows the condition of the mags, hot or
cold: they are clearly visible to him/her.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Hand propping a 65 |
good one!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________
_=0AFrom: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.
com=0ASent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:03:12 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-Li
st: Hand propping a 65=0A=0A=0AYou're not old till you get dates by telling
the ladies that=0Ayou're licenced to drive at night.=0A-=0AClif=0A-=0A
=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma
tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com"
>http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contributio
n">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A-
=====
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Plywood |
Bill C.~~Sorry, on my plywood post I said I could not find sheets of Sitka Spruce,
I meant to say Finnish Birch, that was a total Piet building Freudian slip!
Thanks all for the replies, and notes on waterproof ply, etc .
Jack, do you remember where you found the mahogany, and was it a specific type,
all I find is from Boulter? Will also look into Okoume Marine Ply.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237183#237183
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Plywood |
I just bought regular aircraft grade mahogany and birch plywood from Aircra
ft Spruce and Specialty.- Figure out all you will need-ahead of time so
you can order it all at once - the shipping costs more than the plywood.
-
Jack
NX899JP
--- On Wed, 4/1/09, chase143 <chase143@aol.com> wrote:
From: chase143 <chase143@aol.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Plywood
<chase143@aol.com>
Bill C.~~Sorry, on my plywood post I said I could not find sheets of Sitka
Spruce, I meant to say Finnish Birch, that was a total Piet building Freudi
an
slip!
Thanks all for the replies, and notes on waterproof ply, etc .
Jack, do you remember where you found the mahogany, and was it a specific t
ype,
all I find is from Boulter? Will also look into Okoume Marine Ply.
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237183#237183
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: hand propping |
I completely agree about the absurd leg swing. Placing yourself
off-balance on one foot in front of a spinning propeller is just stupid,
not to mention unnecessary. My Travel Air, with a 220 Continental
(Stearman engine) does not have a starter, or an impulse, and I have
hand propped every one of its 1800 hours. It does not take a leg swing
to get it going, either, and certainly not a C-65. I never allow anyone
in the cockpit, I have a bungee that I hook onto the throttle to hold it
full aft (closed). If I am on a crowded or sloping ramp I tie down the
tail (mostly to make airport feel better)
I trained dozens how to prop my Champ years ago. C-65 and no impulse.
Stand flat footed facing prop, hook last joint of R/H pinkie over
trailing edge of prop, pull down firmly. Started every time, even
without an impulse.
The biggest thing is to NOT be afraid of it, and ALWAYS treat it as if
it were hot.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation]<mailto:michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:14 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping
I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross
country trips assures me that the airplane
will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the
tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in
the pavement or a nearby fence post.
I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone)
prop your airplane but yourself. I have had
people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea
what they were doing and were not
only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add
to this, most times those people didn't
get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know
for a fact that a person is experienced
at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself
either.
I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big
old leg swing to prop a little Continental
engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big
leg kick and if timed properly and you
have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be
actually able to prop the thing with one
hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big
theatrical leg kick helped back in the days
when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's
and didn't require any off-balance
leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on
the prop while stepping away from it
with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion--
not balancing on one foot and hoping you
don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever
works for you.
The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric
starters for airplanes and cars. :))
Mike C.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Fuselage Plywood |
Steve,
Here are a few more possible sources for Ply:
http://www.cedartreeinc.com/
http://www.exotic-woods.com/welcome.html
http://www.publiclumber.com/okoumemarine.html
Bill C.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in |
California
Oops, you're right. I have never been good at getting the names of all
the specific parts right. I usually say something like "the part in
front of the wing that hangs down etc." Shows my lack of
sophistication.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: bike.mike@comcast.net
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:11 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
I believe you're thinking of the cabane brace struts that tie the top
of the cabanes to the engine mounts, maintaining wing fore/aft position.
Jury struts stabilize the lift struts near (but not at) mid span of the
struts. NX12988 does have jury struts. The cross-bracing cables by the
passenger cockpit are what is specified in the original plans. NX12988
looks beautifully plans-built.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mac Zirges" <macz@casco.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, January 1, 1990 2:02:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury
struts--and it will make it easier for passengers to get in also since
he can then remove the crosswires at front cockpit side.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol
flying in California
go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708
Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE
WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER
Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine
Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change
Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO
To search FAA registrations go here:
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Date: 4/6/07 12:00 AM
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
12:00 AM
Message 9
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Subject: | Hand propping a 65 |
Jim=3B
I'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list=2C thing
s that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine=2C hot or co
ld. That was not always the case!
First of all=2C understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel circuit f
or when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so=2C for idle. I guess the
re is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck fuel up thro
ugh the main jet. This becomes important in the starting drill because man
y old-timers assume that the throttle is to be 'cracked' to start=2C but th
at's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the Stromberg doesn't have) and for
starting I pull mine all the way back to the idle stop so the carb draws fu
el through the idle circuit only.
Cold starts are easy=2C and I don't have impulse on either of my mags=2C do
n't have a primer=2C don't swing my leg=2C and I was once the 90-pound weak
ling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is=2C it's not a d
ifficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no sweat unl
ess you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more times. More on
that later.
For cold starts=2C I set mags off and wheels chocked=2C fuel on=2C throttle
back to the stop=2C and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly s
lowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw a hu
ge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging the pro
p=2C something that has been mentioned on this list before=2C is to start t
he prop swing slightly upward first=2C then down. It should sort of slurp
fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing. It's all done
in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire on the second pu
ll.
For hot starts=2C the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it wi
ll be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always used t
o be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up again... it w
ould flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting it down when yo
u're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to kill it with the mag
switch and as the engine winds down=2C ease the throttle open so it's pull
ing in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the throttle is left at idle whe
n the engine is shut down=2C with no spark the engine pulls fuel through th
e idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited and sits there=2C flooding the en
gine. Once the engine stops=2C pull the throttle back to the stop=2C shut
off the fuel valve=2C and you're shut down.
For flooded starts=2C shut off the fuel=2C chock the wheels=2C kill the ign
ition=2C open the throttle all the way=2C and start pulling the prop throug
h backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times=2C look to see if f
uel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate=2C the best thing
to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate (t
hrottle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do is put the thro
ttle back to the idle stop=2C turn on the mags and fuel=2C and try normal s
tart. If it doesn't start in the first couple of attempts=2C it's still fl
ooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine usually starts on the second
effort because I get impatient with all those fools standing around laughin
g at me trying to start my old timey airplane and I try to short-cut the pr
ocess.
On the shutdown procedure=2C some would argue that the engine should be sto
pped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out of fuel
. That's OK too=2C but not the way I do it because I like to have the floa
t bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that the Stromberg
does NOT have idle cutoff=2C so you still need to kill the engine with the
ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget to turn off the ma
gs!!!
Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly=2C after
a couple of dozen flights in different conditions=2C hand-propping comes p
retty automatically unless something is wrong (spark=2C air=2C or fuel...)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in |
California
the part in front of the wing that hangs down is your passenger falling out
!!!;-(=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________
=0AFrom: Mac Zirges <macz@casco.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0AS
ent: Monday, January 1, 1990 4:39:53 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some
gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California=0A=0A=EF=BB
=0AOops, you're right.=C2- I have never been good at getting the names of
all the specific parts right.=C2- I usually say something like "the part
in front of the wing that hangs down etc."=C2- Shows my lack of sophisti
cation.=0A=C2-=0AMac in Oregon=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navi
gator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ah
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="h
ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A=0A__
______________________________=0ADate: 4/6/07 12:00 AM=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro
nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">ht
tp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">
http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A________________________________=0ADate: 4/
=========================0A
========================
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Hand propping a 65 |
Oscar, Thank you, thank you for sharing your experience, especially
since we have the same carb. and no electric start. I really appreciate
your help, which will be put to good use as soon as it warms up a
bit.---Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: Oscar Zuniga
To: Pietenpol List
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65
Jim;
I'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list,
things that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine, hot
or cold. That was not always the case!
First of all, understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel
circuit for when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so, for idle. I
guess there is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck
fuel up through the main jet. This becomes important in the starting
drill because many old-timers assume that the throttle is to be
'cracked' to start, but that's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the
Stromberg doesn't have) and for starting I pull mine all the way back to
the idle stop so the carb draws fuel through the idle circuit only.
Cold starts are easy, and I don't have impulse on either of my mags,
don't have a primer, don't swing my leg, and I was once the 90-pound
weakling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is, it's
not a difficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no
sweat unless you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more
times. More on that later.
For cold starts, I set mags off and wheels chocked, fuel on, throttle
back to the stop, and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly
slowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw
a huge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging
the prop, something that has been mentioned on this list before, is to
start the prop swing slightly upward first, then down. It should sort
of slurp fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing.
It's all done in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire
on the second pull.
For hot starts, the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it
will be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always
used to be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up
again... it would flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting
it down when you're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to
kill it with the mag switch and as the engine winds down, ease the
throttle open so it's pulling in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the
throttle is left at idle when the engine is shut down, with no spark the
engine pulls fuel through the idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited
and sits there, flooding the engine. Once the engine stops, pull the
throttle back to the stop, shut off the fuel valve, and you're shut
down.
For flooded starts, shut off the fuel, chock the wheels, kill the
ignition, open the throttle all the way, and start pulling the prop
through backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times, look to
see if fuel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate, the
best thing to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel
evaporate (throttle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do
is put the throttle back to the idle stop, turn on the mags and fuel,
and try normal start. If it doesn't start in the first couple of
attempts, it's still flooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine
usually starts on the second effort because I get impatient with all
those fools standing around laughing at me trying to start my old timey
airplane and I try to short-cut the process.
On the shutdown procedure, some would argue that the engine should be
stopped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out
of fuel. That's OK too, but not the way I do it because I like to have
the float bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that
the Stromberg does NOT have idle cutoff, so you still need to kill the
engine with the ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget
to turn off the mags!!!
Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly,
after a couple of dozen flights in different conditions, hand-propping
comes pretty automatically unless something is wrong (spark, air, or
fuel...)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
04/01/09 06:06:00
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Hand propping a 65 |
We have a Stromberg and find that shutting down by turning the fuel
off results in easy starting for the next go. An added benefit is the
"cool" factor of taxiing up, turning to put the tail towards the
hangar, and having the engine juuuust run out of fuel all in one
swell foop.
Message 13
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Some things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.
What does turning the prop backwards accomplish?
If this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a
reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ?
You will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the sharpest knife in th
e
set.
Ted Stone
corvair piet builder
**************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops =93 Starting at $399
ttp:%2F%2Fad.doubl
eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540506%3B35046329%3Bx)
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: hand proping |
By turning the prop backwards this clears the engine of unwanted excess fue
l when it's flooded. Waiting around does the same thing but it takes longer
. If you have an electric start you can do somewhat the same thing with the
mags off and just using the starter motor to turn it through but it will h
eat up your starter motor and run down your battery. If your like me and yo
u don't have a charging system, you don't want to do that. When-I have fl
ooded the engine I usually shut everything off, get out and prop backwards
by hand. When starting from a cold start I will prime then turn the prop th
rough about six times by hand-with all mags and master off. Then when I g
et in and turn on master and mags and crack the throttle to about somewhere
between 1/4 and 1/2, then when I hit that starter button she usually start
s with no problem. Sometimes I will give her some more prime when turning h
er over if she is being a bitch that day but that's when you have to
be careful not to over do it and flood her.-I am using an 80 hp Franklin
with a Marvel - Schebler carb, gravity fed.If she's hot; usually piming a
lot or even a little can cause more grief than enough.Most of the time just
get in and put the throttle where I mentioned earlier.Turn all the switch'
s on and push the starter button and most of the time she'll start no probl
em. Unless there's a bunch of people around which usual causes her to flood
because she is shy and wants to make an ass out of me!--=0A=0A=0A=0A
=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "TGSTONE236@aol.com" <TGSTONE23
6@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, April 1, 2
009 4:32:40 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping=0A=0ASome things I d
on't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.=0A=0AWhat does turning the
prop backwards accomplish?=0A=0AIf this is necessary why doesn't the engine
with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same as a hand pro
p engine ?=0A=0AYou will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the shar
pest knife in the set.=0A=0ATed Stone=0Acorvair piet builder=0A=0A_________
_______________________=0ANew Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399
===================
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: hand proping |
If the engine is flooded, by turning the engine backwards, the valve
sequence works in reverse.
The exhaust valve opens and pulls fresh air (no more gas) into the
exhaust pipes,thru the engine and then the intake valve opens and the
gas vapor rich air is pushed out the intake manifold. By repeating this
the flooded engine is flushed of the gas, and dries it out.
It's not done on the modern engines cause thay are controlled by a
computer, and rarely flood.
While our planes are working with 1940's technology.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: TGSTONE236@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping
Some things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.
What does turning the prop backwards accomplish?
If this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a
reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ?
You will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the sharpest knife
in the set.
Ted Stone
corvair piet builder
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
New Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399
Message 16
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|
Subject: | Re: hand proping |
When a modern engine floods you turn the key off ,depress the gas peddle to
the floor and hold it there,do not pump the gas peddle,turn the key on and
turn to start and keep turning with the peddle to the floor.This also work
s for vapour locks as well.Nothing to do with Piets but secretly I just kne
w you wanted to know.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom
: walt <waltdak@verizon.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed
nesday, April 1, 2009 5:37:30 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propin
g=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AIf the engine is flooded, by turning the engine backwar
ds, the valve sequence works in reverse.=0AThe exhaust valve opens and pull
s fresh air (no more gas) into the exhaust pipes,thru the engine and then t
he intake valve opens and the gas vapor rich air is pushed out the intake m
anifold. By repeating this the flooded engine is flushed of the gas, and dr
ies it out.=0AIt's not done on the modern engines cause thay are controlled
by a computer, and rarely flood.=0AWhile our planes are working with 1940'
s technology.=0Awalt evans=0ANX140DL=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message -----
=0AFrom: TGSTONE236@aol.com =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: We
dnesday, April 01, 2009 4:32 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping=0AS
ome things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.=0A=0AWhat doe
s turning the prop backwards accomplish?=0A=0AIf this is necessary why does
n't the engine with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same
as a hand prop engine ?=0A=0AYou will have to over look my stupidity as I'
m not the sharpest knife in the set.=0A=0ATed Stone=0Acorvair piet builder
=0A=0A________________________________=0ANew Low Prices on Dell Laptops - S
tarting at $399 =0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http:/
/forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.mat
=============
Message 17
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|
Subject: | Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? |
Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct- or is my inbox me
ssed up?- It is dating your email as year 1990.- Just wondering, I almo
st thought I had a time machine!- Well I guess a piet is a time machine,
ha ha ha.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 18
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|
Subject: | Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? |
tanks for you email and dont have aidea about these dates never before some
one telmy about so please telmy if is a problem
--- On Wed, 4/1/09, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct- or is my inbox me
ssed up?- It is dating your email as year 1990.- Just wondering, I almo
st thought I had a time machine!- Well I guess a piet is a time machine,
ha ha ha.
-
Shad
=0A=0A=0A
Message 19
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members
subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting
to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and
BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
****************************
An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
http://www.matronics.com/digest
*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
*******************************
*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the
Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages
in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed.
http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol
*****************************************
**** High-Speed Archive Search Engine ***
*****************************************
You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine
to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the
List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently
available List archives.
http://www.matronics.com/search
****************************
*** File and Photo Share ***
****************************
With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures
and other data with members of the List without having to forward a
copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email
them to:
pictures@matronics.com
!! ==> Please including the following information with each submission:
1) Email Lists that they are related to.
2) Your Full Name.
3) Your Email Address.
4) One line Subject description.
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic.
6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file
Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned
for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and
photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to
process them every few days.
Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be
sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new
Share is available and what the direct URL to it is.
For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main
Index Page:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
**************************
*** List Archive CDROM ***
**************************
A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains
all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives
for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search
engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it
and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make
great gifts!
http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM
**********************************
*** List Support Contributions ***
**********************************
The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members.
You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of
annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages
associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November
I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month,
I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they
are comfortable.
I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the
Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated
by companies that are themselves List members.
Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists
including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server
system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many
many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the
variety of services found here.
Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary
and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains
value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude.
Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just
subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in.
The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are
a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and
sending a personal check.
If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to
support its continued operation?
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 20
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|
Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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