Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Wed 04/01/09


Total Messages Posted: 20



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 04:03 AM - oukume plywood (Douwe Blumberg)
     2. 04:20 AM - Re: hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper (Skip Gadd)
     3. 04:21 AM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (H RULE)
     4. 05:32 AM - Re: Fuselage Plywood (chase143)
     5. 05:50 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Plywood (jack phillips)
     6. 06:18 AM - Re: hand propping (Gene Rambo)
     7. 06:21 AM - Re: Re: Fuselage Plywood (Bill Church)
     8. 11:35 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (Mac Zirges)
     9. 11:56 AM - Hand propping a 65 (Oscar Zuniga)
    10. 11:58 AM - Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California (H RULE)
    11. 01:18 PM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Lagowski Morrow)
    12. 01:34 PM - Re: Hand propping a 65 (Jeff Boatright)
    13. 01:34 PM - hand proping (TGSTONE236@aol.com)
    14. 02:21 PM - Re: hand proping (H RULE)
    15. 02:38 PM - Re: hand proping (walt)
    16. 04:36 PM - Re: hand proping (H RULE)
    17. 06:10 PM - Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? (shad bell)
    18. 10:06 PM - Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? (jorge lizarraga)
    19. 11:02 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
    20. 11:07 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 04:03:08 AM PST US
    From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
    Subject: oukume plywood
    Most boat builders are going with Oukume plywood these days. It is very strong, stiff and exceptionally lightweight. It's a newer wood on the scene than the old standbyes, but it is good stuff. Two minor drawbacks. It is more suseptible to rot than the others, so when used in a boat, must be well varnished. Shouldn't matter in a plane, just varnish carefully as you would anyways. Second drawback is it's odd pinkish color. I'm not sure I'd like it in my cockpits, though one could likely play around with some stain and fix it. If I were building again, I'd use it for as much as possible. Douwe


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:20:40 AM PST US
    From: "Skip Gadd" <skipgadd@earthlink.net>
    Subject: hand propping and The Great Waldo Pepper
    Larry Williams model A Piet has this setup. ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga the ignition switches which are located on the outside of the cockpit. Now there's a way to ensure that the propper knows the condition of the mags, hot or cold: they are clearly visible to him/her.


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:21:02 AM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: Hand propping a 65
    good one!=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_______________________________ _=0AFrom: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics. com=0ASent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:03:12 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-Li st: Hand propping a 65=0A=0A=0AYou're not old till you get dates by telling the ladies that=0Ayou're licenced to drive at night.=0A-=0AClif=0A-=0A =0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.ma tronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com" >http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contributio n">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0A- =====


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:32:12 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage Plywood
    From: "chase143" <chase143@aol.com>
    Bill C.~~Sorry, on my plywood post I said I could not find sheets of Sitka Spruce, I meant to say Finnish Birch, that was a total Piet building Freudian slip! Thanks all for the replies, and notes on waterproof ply, etc . Jack, do you remember where you found the mahogany, and was it a specific type, all I find is from Boulter? Will also look into Okoume Marine Ply. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237183#237183


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:50:19 AM PST US
    From: jack phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: Fuselage Plywood
    I just bought regular aircraft grade mahogany and birch plywood from Aircra ft Spruce and Specialty.- Figure out all you will need-ahead of time so you can order it all at once - the shipping costs more than the plywood. - Jack NX899JP --- On Wed, 4/1/09, chase143 <chase143@aol.com> wrote: From: chase143 <chase143@aol.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage Plywood <chase143@aol.com> Bill C.~~Sorry, on my plywood post I said I could not find sheets of Sitka Spruce, I meant to say Finnish Birch, that was a total Piet building Freudi an slip! Thanks all for the replies, and notes on waterproof ply, etc . Jack, do you remember where you found the mahogany, and was it a specific t ype, all I find is from Boulter? Will also look into Okoume Marine Ply. Steve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=237183#237183


    Message 6


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    Time: 06:18:40 AM PST US
    From: "Gene Rambo" <GeneRambo@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: hand propping
    I completely agree about the absurd leg swing. Placing yourself off-balance on one foot in front of a spinning propeller is just stupid, not to mention unnecessary. My Travel Air, with a 220 Continental (Stearman engine) does not have a starter, or an impulse, and I have hand propped every one of its 1800 hours. It does not take a leg swing to get it going, either, and certainly not a C-65. I never allow anyone in the cockpit, I have a bungee that I hook onto the throttle to hold it full aft (closed). If I am on a crowded or sloping ramp I tie down the tail (mostly to make airport feel better) I trained dozens how to prop my Champ years ago. C-65 and no impulse. Stand flat footed facing prop, hook last joint of R/H pinkie over trailing edge of prop, pull down firmly. Started every time, even without an impulse. The biggest thing is to NOT be afraid of it, and ALWAYS treat it as if it were hot. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]<mailto:michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand propping I have found that carrying a good quality rope to fly-in's or on cross country trips assures me that the airplane will stay put during hand propping. I tie the rope around the tailwheel and then to either a tie down anchor in the pavement or a nearby fence post. I have also found that it isn't wise to let anyone (I mean anyone) prop your airplane but yourself. I have had people say that they were experienced in hand propping who had no idea what they were doing and were not only dangerous but clearly afraid and unsure of themselves. To add to this, most times those people didn't get me going anyway and I ended up doing it myself. Unless you know for a fact that a person is experienced at hand propping, just do it yourself. You'll never sue yourself either. I have to laugh at the Hollywood imitators out there who give a big old leg swing to prop a little Continental engine. My grandmother could prop a Continental engine without a big leg kick and if timed properly and you have at least one impulse mag (if you don't, get one) you should be actually able to prop the thing with one hand while having both feet on the ground. I suppose the big theatrical leg kick helped back in the days when you hand propped bigger engines but I've hand propped Stearman's and didn't require any off-balance leg action but merely used the method I was taught---to pull down on the prop while stepping away from it with my right foot to backup away from the prop arc in one motion-- not balancing on one foot and hoping you don't slip or get off balance. To each his own though-- whatever works for you. The whole country went down the drain when they invented electric starters for airplanes and cars. :)) Mike C. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:21:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Fuselage Plywood
    From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
    Steve, Here are a few more possible sources for Ply: http://www.cedartreeinc.com/ http://www.exotic-woods.com/welcome.html http://www.publiclumber.com/okoumemarine.html Bill C.


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:35:52 AM PST US
    From: "Mac Zirges" <macz@casco.net>
    Subject: Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
    California Oops, you're right. I have never been good at getting the names of all the specific parts right. I usually say something like "the part in front of the wing that hangs down etc." Shows my lack of sophistication. Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: bike.mike@comcast.net To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 9:11 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California I believe you're thinking of the cabane brace struts that tie the top of the cabanes to the engine mounts, maintaining wing fore/aft position. Jury struts stabilize the lift struts near (but not at) mid span of the struts. NX12988 does have jury struts. The cross-bracing cables by the passenger cockpit are what is specified in the original plans. NX12988 looks beautifully plans-built. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mac Zirges" <macz@casco.net> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 1, 1990 2:02:46 AM GMT -08:00 US/Canada Pacific Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California Gorgeous ship, but wing will be more solid if he adds some jury struts--and it will make it easier for passengers to get in also since he can then remove the crosswires at front cockpit side. Mac in Oregon ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California go here: http://forum.planetalk.net/viewtopic.php?t=7708 Serial Number 1 Type Registration Individual Manufacturer Name BOWE WALTER Certificate Issue Date 10/12/2004 Model PIETENPOL AIR CAMPER Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50074262 MFR Year 2005 Fractional Owner NO To search FAA registrations go here: http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/ href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Date: 4/6/07 12:00 AM ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 12:00 AM


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:56:58 AM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Hand propping a 65
    Jim=3B I'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list=2C thing s that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine=2C hot or co ld. That was not always the case! First of all=2C understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel circuit f or when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so=2C for idle. I guess the re is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck fuel up thro ugh the main jet. This becomes important in the starting drill because man y old-timers assume that the throttle is to be 'cracked' to start=2C but th at's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the Stromberg doesn't have) and for starting I pull mine all the way back to the idle stop so the carb draws fu el through the idle circuit only. Cold starts are easy=2C and I don't have impulse on either of my mags=2C do n't have a primer=2C don't swing my leg=2C and I was once the 90-pound weak ling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is=2C it's not a d ifficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no sweat unl ess you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more times. More on that later. For cold starts=2C I set mags off and wheels chocked=2C fuel on=2C throttle back to the stop=2C and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly s lowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw a hu ge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging the pro p=2C something that has been mentioned on this list before=2C is to start t he prop swing slightly upward first=2C then down. It should sort of slurp fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing. It's all done in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire on the second pu ll. For hot starts=2C the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it wi ll be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always used t o be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up again... it w ould flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting it down when yo u're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to kill it with the mag switch and as the engine winds down=2C ease the throttle open so it's pull ing in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the throttle is left at idle whe n the engine is shut down=2C with no spark the engine pulls fuel through th e idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited and sits there=2C flooding the en gine. Once the engine stops=2C pull the throttle back to the stop=2C shut off the fuel valve=2C and you're shut down. For flooded starts=2C shut off the fuel=2C chock the wheels=2C kill the ign ition=2C open the throttle all the way=2C and start pulling the prop throug h backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times=2C look to see if f uel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate=2C the best thing to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate (t hrottle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do is put the thro ttle back to the idle stop=2C turn on the mags and fuel=2C and try normal s tart. If it doesn't start in the first couple of attempts=2C it's still fl ooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine usually starts on the second effort because I get impatient with all those fools standing around laughin g at me trying to start my old timey airplane and I try to short-cut the pr ocess. On the shutdown procedure=2C some would argue that the engine should be sto pped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out of fuel . That's OK too=2C but not the way I do it because I like to have the floa t bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that the Stromberg does NOT have idle cutoff=2C so you still need to kill the engine with the ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget to turn off the ma gs!!! Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly=2C after a couple of dozen flights in different conditions=2C hand-propping comes p retty automatically unless something is wrong (spark=2C air=2C or fuel...) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:58:16 AM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in
    California the part in front of the wing that hangs down is your passenger falling out !!!;-(=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________ =0AFrom: Mac Zirges <macz@casco.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0AS ent: Monday, January 1, 1990 4:39:53 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: some gorgeous photos of a Ford Pietenpol flying in California=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AOops, you're right.=C2- I have never been good at getting the names of all the specific parts right.=C2- I usually say something like "the part in front of the wing that hangs down etc."=C2- Shows my lack of sophisti cation.=0A=C2-=0AMac in Oregon=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navi gator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ah ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="h ttp://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A=0A__ ______________________________=0ADate: 4/6/07 12:00 AM=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http://forums.matronics.com">ht tp://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c=0A=0A________________________________=0ADate: 4/ =========================0A ========================


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:18:01 PM PST US
    From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: Hand propping a 65
    Oscar, Thank you, thank you for sharing your experience, especially since we have the same carb. and no electric start. I really appreciate your help, which will be put to good use as soon as it warms up a bit.---Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 2:55 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hand propping a 65 Jim; I'll pass along the things that I learned from others on this list, things that have helped me be able to almost always start my engine, hot or cold. That was not always the case! First of all, understand that the Stromberg has a separate fuel circuit for when the main butterfly is closed or nearly so, for idle. I guess there is not enough impulse at very low throttle settings to suck fuel up through the main jet. This becomes important in the starting drill because many old-timers assume that the throttle is to be 'cracked' to start, but that's for carbs with idle cutoff (which the Stromberg doesn't have) and for starting I pull mine all the way back to the idle stop so the carb draws fuel through the idle circuit only. Cold starts are easy, and I don't have impulse on either of my mags, don't have a primer, don't swing my leg, and I was once the 90-pound weakling in my class so I'm not exactly Mr. Atlas. My point is, it's not a difficult prop to swing and the compression is so low that it's no sweat unless you flood the engine and have to swing it a bunch more times. More on that later. For cold starts, I set mags off and wheels chocked, fuel on, throttle back to the stop, and pull the prop through a half-dozen blades fairly slowly. Then mags hot and prop the engine briskly but no need to throw a huge amount of effort into it. The other small detail about swinging the prop, something that has been mentioned on this list before, is to start the prop swing slightly upward first, then down. It should sort of slurp fuel in on the slight uptick and then fire on the downswing. It's all done in one motion. Done this way my engine will usually fire on the second pull. For hot starts, the key is to shut down the engine the right way or it will be flooded and will be a pain to start when you try. This always used to be the case when I'd land for fuel and try to start back up again... it would flood and I'd wear myself out. So the key to shutting it down when you're going to be starting it back up fairly soon is to kill it with the mag switch and as the engine winds down, ease the throttle open so it's pulling in plenty of air as it shuts down. If the throttle is left at idle when the engine is shut down, with no spark the engine pulls fuel through the idle circuit and it doesn't get ignited and sits there, flooding the engine. Once the engine stops, pull the throttle back to the stop, shut off the fuel valve, and you're shut down. For flooded starts, shut off the fuel, chock the wheels, kill the ignition, open the throttle all the way, and start pulling the prop through backwards. Once you've pulled it a dozen or so times, look to see if fuel is still dripping out of the intake box. At any rate, the best thing to do is cool your heels for 10-15 minutes to let excess fuel evaporate (throttle still wide open and fuel shut off). Then what I do is put the throttle back to the idle stop, turn on the mags and fuel, and try normal start. If it doesn't start in the first couple of attempts, it's still flooded and you need to repeat the drill. Mine usually starts on the second effort because I get impatient with all those fools standing around laughing at me trying to start my old timey airplane and I try to short-cut the process. On the shutdown procedure, some would argue that the engine should be stopped by shutting off the fuel and letting the engine run itself out of fuel. That's OK too, but not the way I do it because I like to have the float bowl full and ready for the next flight. And remember that the Stromberg does NOT have idle cutoff, so you still need to kill the engine with the ignition even though it runs out of fuel. Don't forget to turn off the mags!!! Whew! I'm wearing out my starter just writing about it! Honestly, after a couple of dozen flights in different conditions, hand-propping comes pretty automatically unless something is wrong (spark, air, or fuel...) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 04/01/09 06:06:00


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:34:12 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: Hand propping a 65
    We have a Stromberg and find that shutting down by turning the fuel off results in easy starting for the next go. An added benefit is the "cool" factor of taxiing up, turning to put the tail towards the hangar, and having the engine juuuust run out of fuel all in one swell foop.


    Message 13


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    Time: 01:34:12 PM PST US
    From: TGSTONE236@aol.com
    Subject: hand proping
    Some things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me. What does turning the prop backwards accomplish? If this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ? You will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the sharpest knife in th e set. Ted Stone corvair piet builder **************New Low Prices on Dell Laptops =93 Starting at $399 ttp:%2F%2Fad.doubl eclick.net%2Fclk%3B213540506%3B35046329%3Bx)


    Message 14


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    Time: 02:21:16 PM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: hand proping
    By turning the prop backwards this clears the engine of unwanted excess fue l when it's flooded. Waiting around does the same thing but it takes longer . If you have an electric start you can do somewhat the same thing with the mags off and just using the starter motor to turn it through but it will h eat up your starter motor and run down your battery. If your like me and yo u don't have a charging system, you don't want to do that. When-I have fl ooded the engine I usually shut everything off, get out and prop backwards by hand. When starting from a cold start I will prime then turn the prop th rough about six times by hand-with all mags and master off. Then when I g et in and turn on master and mags and crack the throttle to about somewhere between 1/4 and 1/2, then when I hit that starter button she usually start s with no problem. Sometimes I will give her some more prime when turning h er over if she is being a bitch that day but that's when you have to be careful not to over do it and flood her.-I am using an 80 hp Franklin with a Marvel - Schebler carb, gravity fed.If she's hot; usually piming a lot or even a little can cause more grief than enough.Most of the time just get in and put the throttle where I mentioned earlier.Turn all the switch' s on and push the starter button and most of the time she'll start no probl em. Unless there's a bunch of people around which usual causes her to flood because she is shy and wants to make an ass out of me!--=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________=0AFrom: "TGSTONE236@aol.com" <TGSTONE23 6@aol.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, April 1, 2 009 4:32:40 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping=0A=0ASome things I d on't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.=0A=0AWhat does turning the prop backwards accomplish?=0A=0AIf this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same as a hand pro p engine ?=0A=0AYou will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the shar pest knife in the set.=0A=0ATed Stone=0Acorvair piet builder=0A=0A_________ _______________________=0ANew Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399 ===================


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:38:33 PM PST US
    From: "walt" <waltdak@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: hand proping
    If the engine is flooded, by turning the engine backwards, the valve sequence works in reverse. The exhaust valve opens and pulls fresh air (no more gas) into the exhaust pipes,thru the engine and then the intake valve opens and the gas vapor rich air is pushed out the intake manifold. By repeating this the flooded engine is flushed of the gas, and dries it out. It's not done on the modern engines cause thay are controlled by a computer, and rarely flood. While our planes are working with 1940's technology. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: TGSTONE236@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 4:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping Some things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me. What does turning the prop backwards accomplish? If this is necessary why doesn't the engine with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ? You will have to over look my stupidity as I'm not the sharpest knife in the set. Ted Stone corvair piet builder ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- New Low Prices on Dell Laptops - Starting at $399


    Message 16


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    Time: 04:36:14 PM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: hand proping
    When a modern engine floods you turn the key off ,depress the gas peddle to the floor and hold it there,do not pump the gas peddle,turn the key on and turn to start and keep turning with the peddle to the floor.This also work s for vapour locks as well.Nothing to do with Piets but secretly I just kne w you wanted to know.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom : walt <waltdak@verizon.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed nesday, April 1, 2009 5:37:30 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: hand propin g=0A=0A=EF=BB =0AIf the engine is flooded, by turning the engine backwar ds, the valve sequence works in reverse.=0AThe exhaust valve opens and pull s fresh air (no more gas) into the exhaust pipes,thru the engine and then t he intake valve opens and the gas vapor rich air is pushed out the intake m anifold. By repeating this the flooded engine is flushed of the gas, and dr ies it out.=0AIt's not done on the modern engines cause thay are controlled by a computer, and rarely flood.=0AWhile our planes are working with 1940' s technology.=0Awalt evans=0ANX140DL=0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: TGSTONE236@aol.com =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com =0ASent: We dnesday, April 01, 2009 4:32 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: hand proping=0AS ome things I don't understand or it doesn't make sense to me.=0A=0AWhat doe s turning the prop backwards accomplish?=0A=0AIf this is necessary why does n't the engine with electric start have a reversible starter to do the same as a hand prop engine ?=0A=0AYou will have to over look my stupidity as I' m not the sharpest knife in the set.=0A=0ATed Stone=0Acorvair piet builder =0A=0A________________________________=0ANew Low Prices on Dell Laptops - S tarting at $399 =0A=0A=0Ahref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp ol-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List=0Ahref="http:/ /forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com=0Ahref="http://www.mat =============


    Message 17


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    Time: 06:10:13 PM PST US
    From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
    Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct- or is my inbox me ssed up?- It is dating your email as year 1990.- Just wondering, I almo st thought I had a time machine!- Well I guess a piet is a time machine, ha ha ha. - Shad=0A=0A=0A


    Message 18


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    Time: 10:06:58 PM PST US
    From: jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right?
    tanks for you email and dont have aidea about these dates never before some one telmy about so please telmy if is a problem --- On Wed, 4/1/09, shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> wrote: From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mac Zurgis is the date on your computer right? Mac, Just wondering if your computer's date is correct- or is my inbox me ssed up?- It is dating your email as year 1990.- Just wondering, I almo st thought I had a time machine!- Well I guess a piet is a time machine, ha ha ha. - Shad =0A=0A=0A


    Message 19


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    Time: 11:02:20 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator [ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ] This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address: http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm ************************************************************ ******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS ******* ************************************************************ PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List running smoothly for all of us. ****************************************** *** Quick Start Guide to List Features *** ****************************************** There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List **************************************** *** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe *** **************************************** Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information. The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is: http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed. You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request. The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post until you receive the second conformation email message. ***************************** *** How to Post a Message *** ***************************** Send an email message to: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed to the List. ***************************************************** *** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post *** ***************************************************** When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor. If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that gets posted to the Lists. Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List: smith@machine.domain.com smith@domain.com Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to the List. ************************************** *** Enclosure Support on the Lists *** ************************************** Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the content of enclosures. These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics Lists: 1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists. 2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists. 3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site. 4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives. 5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature. 6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed: bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk. 7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down the process of posting the message !! Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists. 1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post 30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these folks and the rest of us, for that matter. 2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000 pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less. Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it! http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Look for the link "Image Resizer" 3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother. And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even questionable. !! 4) REMEMBER THIS: If you post a 1MB enclosure to a List with 1000 members subscribed, your 1MB enclosure must be resent 1000 times amounting to 1MB X 1000 = 1 Gigabyte of network traffic!! BE CAREFUL and BE COURTEOUS! Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server for long time viewing and availability. ******************* *** Digest Mode *** ******************* Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started. This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:" and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting of a line of underscores. Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list. To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form described above, and just select the Digest version of the List. http://www.matronics.com/subscribe Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable. Now some caveats: * Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the digest List. * If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of the day. * If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please *do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*. **************************** *** List Digest Browser *** **************************** An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found at the following location: http://www.matronics.com/digest ***************************************** *** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag *** ***************************************** At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the message: do not archive Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List email distribution as normal. ********************************************** ***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes ***** ********************************************** Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look for your email address and a possible reason for your removal. The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the Lists you will find record of it at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice. ******************************* *** List Member Information *** ******************************* If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and paper mail address in the following format: smith@somehost.com Joe Smith 123 Airport Lane Tower, CA 91234-1234 098-765-1234 w 123-456-7890 h Please forward this information to the following email address: requests@matronics.com I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT be used for any other commercial purpose. **************************************** *** Realtime Web Email List Browsing *** **************************************** Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject, Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon). You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List Browser Interface in view-mode. http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list ******************************************* *** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface *** ******************************************* A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content. content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to the web Forums. You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login. If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the Email Distribution of the List, however. The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL: http://forums.matronics.com ********************************* *** Matronics Email List Wiki *** ********************************* In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at: http://wiki.matronics.com The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately. While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any images and email it to: wiki-support@matronics.com One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct a Wiki page for you. Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that post and convert it into a Wiki page. ********************* *** List Archives *** ********************* A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is available on line. The archive file information is available via the Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below: * Pietenpol-List.FAQ - Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question page (this document). * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete - Complete file with most of the email header info removed and page breaks inserted between messages. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-?? - Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that can more easily handled. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. * Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z - Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods. Download Via FTP ---------------- The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.) ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives Download Via Web ---------------- The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found toward the bottom of the following web page: http://www.matronics.com/archives ****************************************** *** Complete List Web Archive Browsing *** ****************************************** All messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also available using the Email List Archive Browsing feature. With this utility, all messages in the List are indexed, and individual sub-archives can be browsed. http://www.matronics.com/archive/archive-index.cgi?Pietenpol ***************************************** **** High-Speed Archive Search Engine *** ***************************************** You can use the custom, high-performance Matronics Email List Search Engine to quickly locate and browse any messages that have been posted to the List. The Engine allows the user to easily search any of the currently available List archives. http://www.matronics.com/search **************************** *** File and Photo Share *** **************************** With the Matronics Email List File and Photo Share you can share pictures and other data with members of the List without having to forward a copy of it to everyone. To share your Files and Photos, simply email them to: pictures@matronics.com !! ==> Please including the following information with each submission: 1) Email Lists that they are related to. 2) Your Full Name. 3) Your Email Address. 4) One line Subject description. 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic. 6-x) One-line Description of each photo or file Prior to public availability of the files and photos, each will be scanned for viruses. Please also note that the process of making the files and photos available on the web site is a pseudo-manual process, and I try to process them every few days. Following the availability of the new Photoshare, an email message will be sent to the Email Lists enumerated in 1) above indicating that the new Share is available and what the direct URL to it is. For a current list of available Photoshares, have a look at the Main Index Page: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare ************************** *** List Archive CDROM *** ************************** A complete Matronics Email List Archive CD is available that contains all of the archives since the beginning of each of the Lists. The archives for all of the Lists are included on the CD along with a freeware search engine written by a list member. The CD is burned the day you order it and will contain archive received up to the last minute. They make great gifts! http://www.matronics.com/ArchiveCDROM ********************************** *** List Support Contributions *** ********************************** The Matronics Lists are run *completely* through the support of it members. You won't find any PopUpAds, flashing Banner ads, or any other form of annoying commercialism on either the Email Messages or the List web pages associated with the Matronics Email Lists. Every year during November I run a low-key, low-pressure "Fund Raiser" where, throughout the month, I ask List members to make a Contribution in any amount with which they are comfortable. I will often offer free gifts with certain contribution levels during the Fund Raiser to increase the participation. The gifts are usually donated by companies that are themselves List members. Your Contributions go directly to supporting the operation of the Lists including the high-speed, business-class Internet connection, server system hardware and software upgrades, and to partially offset the many many hours I spend running, maintaining, upgrading, and developing the variety of services found here. Generally Contributions range from $20 to $100 and are completely voluntary and non-compulsory. I ask only that if person enjoys the Lists and obtains value from them, that they make a Contribution of equal magnitude. Contributions are accepted throughout the year, and if you've just subscribed, feel free to make a Contribution when you've settled in. The website for making SSL Secure Contributions is listed below. There are a variety of payment methods including Visa and MasterCard, PayPal, and sending a personal check. If you enjoy and value the List, won't you make a Contribution today to support its continued operation? http://www.matronics.com/contributions Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive


    Message 20


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    Time: 11:07:38 PM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
    Dear Listers, Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the following URL: http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ****************************************************************************** Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines ****************************************************************************** The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List. You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein. Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result in the removal of the subscribers from the List. Pietenpol-List Policy Statement The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established: - Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc. - THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it. - Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and responses. - Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address, aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary space in the archive. - DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the web page or FAQ first. - If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it easy to find threads in the archive. - When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive can not be overstated! - When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the "reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your response to the original poster. You might have to actively address your response with the original poster's email address. - DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large. - When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly contribute something valuable. - Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing. - Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by List members promoting their respective products or items for sale should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to everyone, including those who provide products to the entire community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. ------- [This is an automated posting.] do not archive




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