---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 04/16/09: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 06:00 AM - wood gear progress (Oscar Zuniga) 2. 07:24 AM - verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 08:14 AM - Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (Jack Phillips) 4. 08:34 AM - Re: Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 5. 08:47 AM - Re: Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (H RULE) 6. 10:41 AM - Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (Michael Perez) 7. 10:58 AM - Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (Catdesigns) 8. 11:04 AM - Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? (Gardiner Mason) 9. 11:19 AM - Re: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? (Jack Phillips) 10. 11:19 AM - Tach Check (Wayne Bressler) 11. 11:21 AM - Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab (Catdesigns) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 06:00:44 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood gear progress Carson=3B I recommend that you put some wings on it before you try flying it =3Bo) I'm like Walt... seeing wood and glue come together makes me want to go out into the shop. There's something magical about building from plans. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:24:57 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab Hey gang, Three questions: 1. Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach? is there some sort of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop? 2. I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and wanted thoughts on what size cable to use. What g's are we realistically protecting against after which it's just silliness? 3. What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling? what is the best means of cutting out openings and holes? Thanks, as always!! Douwe spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!! ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:14:09 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab Hi Douwe, Answers to your questions: 1. Strobe tachs are available, but not cheap. What I do is find a friend who owns one and use his. 2. Why run the cables all the way to the tailpost? Cable is heavy and expensive, and if the cable is needed (i.e., in a crash) you are subjecting the structure to a load in a direction it is not really designed to resist. I would carry the cables just far enough aft to give you a proper angle on the cables and attach them to the upper longerons at a point where the longerons have plenty of reinforcement (where the uprights and diagonals come in). I believe a 20 G limit is what is usually considered adequate. So if you weigh 200 lbs, and your entire weight is to be suspended from these cables, they will have to be capable of withstanding 4,000 lbs of load (2,000 lbs apiece), which will require at least 1/8" diameter cable. By the time you add all the fittings you will have a couple of pounds of weight back where you really don't want extra weight. If you just attach the cables to the top longerons, drill the bolt holes through the longerons midway between the top and bottom surfaces of the longeron, with the hole running horizontally. Make sure there are gussets on either side of the longeron at that point for extra reinforcement. 3. I used 2024-T3 aluminum .025" thick for my cowlings. Large openings like the cockpit cutouts and cutouts around the engine are best done on a wood-cutting bandsaw with a metal cutting blade. Holes are best done with a holesaw. All can be cut with tin snips, if you really like blisters and lacerations. Cut to the outside of your finished line and finish it up with a vixen file (for the straight portions) or a drum sander (for curves). Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe Blumberg Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab Hey gang, Three questions: 1. Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach? is there some sort of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop? 2. I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and wanted thoughts on what size cable to use. What g's are we realistically protecting against after which it's just silliness? 3. What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling? what is the best means of cutting out openings and holes? Thanks, as always!! Douwe spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:34:56 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab I have a small device that works something like a tuning fork. Pretty cheap. We compared it to a strobe and it was very close. You stand 25 feet in front of the plane, slide a plastic holder down to the indicated RPM and look through a peephole and flip a small stiff rod with your finger. The rod viberates. If the prop moves one way it is too fast, If it moves the other it is too slow. Have the pilot adjust the throttle until the prop is stationary, then compare the RPM to the setting on the device. sounds more complicated than it is. Blue Skies, Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab > > Hi Douwe, > > Answers to your questions: > > 1. Strobe tachs are available, but not cheap. What I do is find a friend > who owns one and use his. > > 2. Why run the cables all the way to the tailpost? Cable is heavy and > expensive, and if the cable is needed (i.e., in a crash) you are subjecting > the structure to a load in a direction it is not really designed to resist. > I would carry the cables just far enough aft to give you a proper angle on > the cables and attach them to the upper longerons at a point where the > longerons have plenty of reinforcement (where the uprights and diagonals > come in). I believe a 20 G limit is what is usually considered adequate. > So if you weigh 200 lbs, and your entire weight is to be suspended from > these cables, they will have to be capable of withstanding 4,000 lbs of load > (2,000 lbs apiece), which will require at least 1/8" diameter cable. By the > time you add all the fittings you will have a couple of pounds of weight > back where you really don't want extra weight. > If you just attach the cables to the top longerons, drill the bolt holes > through the longerons midway between the top and bottom surfaces of the > longeron, with the hole running horizontally. Make sure there are gussets > on either side of the longeron at that point for extra reinforcement. > > 3. I used 2024-T3 aluminum .025" thick for my cowlings. Large openings > like the cockpit cutouts and cutouts around the engine are best done on a > wood-cutting bandsaw with a metal cutting blade. Holes are best done with a > holesaw. All can be cut with tin snips, if you really like blisters and > lacerations. Cut to the outside of your finished line and finish it up with > a vixen file (for the straight portions) or a drum sander (for curves). > > Hope this helps, > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe > Blumberg > Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM > To: pietenpolgroup > Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab > > < > > Hey gang, > > Three questions: > > 1. Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach? is there some sort > of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop? > > 2. I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and wanted > thoughts on what size cable to use. What g's are we realistically > protecting against after which it's just silliness? > > 3. What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling? what is the best means > of cutting out openings and holes? > > Thanks, as always!! > > Douwe > > spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!! > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:47:37 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab that sounds almost seductive;I think I need a glass of wine!=0A=0Ado not ar chive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Dortch, Steve n D MAJ NG NG NGB" =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matro nics.com=0ASent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 11:30:59 AM=0ASubject: Re: RE: Pi etenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-Lis t message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" =0A=0AI have a small device that works something like a tuning fork .- Pretty cheap. We compared it to a strobe and it was very close. You st and 25 feet in front of the plane, slide a plastic holder down to the indic ated RPM and look through a peephole and flip a small stiff rod with your f inger. The rod viberates. If the prop moves one way it is too fast, If it m oves the other it is too slow. Have the pilot adjust the throttle until the prop is stationary, then compare the RPM to the setting on the device. sou nds more complicated than it is. =0A=0ABlue Skies,=0A=0ASteve- =0A=0A---- - Original Message -----=0AFrom: Jack Phillips =0AD ate: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:23=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: verifyin g tach/cable sizes/cowling fab=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A=0A=0A> =0A> =0A> Answers to your questions:=0A> =0A> 1.- Strobe tachs are availa ble, but not cheap.- What I do is find a friend=0A> who owns one and use his.=0A> =0A> 2.- Why run the cables all the way to the tailpost?- Cabl e is heavy and=0A> expensive, and if the cable is needed (i.e., in a crash) you are subjecting=0A> the structure to a load in a direction it is not re ally designed to resist.=0A> I would carry the cables just far enough aft t o give you a proper angle on=0A> the cables and attach them to the upper lo ngerons at a point where the=0A> longerons have plenty of reinforcement (wh ere the uprights and diagonals=0A> come in).- I believe a 20 G limit is w hat is usually considered adequate.=0A> So if you weigh 200 lbs, and your e ntire weight is to be suspended from=0A> these cables, they will have to be capable of withstanding 4,000 lbs of load=0A> (2,000 lbs apiece), which wi ll require at least 1/8" diameter cable.- By the=0A> time you add all the fittings you will have a couple of pounds of weight=0A> back where you rea lly don't want extra weight.=0A> If you just attach the cables to the top l ongerons, drill the bolt holes=0A> through the longerons midway between the top and bottom surfaces of the=0A> longeron, with the hole running horizon tally.- Make sure there are gussets=0A> on either side of the longeron at that point for extra reinforcement.=0A> =0A> 3.- I used 2024-T3 aluminum .025" thick for my cowlings.- Large openings=0A> like the cockpit cutout s and cutouts around the engine are best done on a=0A> wood-cutting bandsaw with a metal cutting blade.- Holes are best done with a=0A> holesaw.- All can be cut with tin snips, if you really like blisters and=0A> lacerati ons.- Cut to the outside of your finished line and finish it up with=0A> a vixen file (for the straight portions) or a drum sander (for curves).=0A> =0A> Hope this helps,=0A> =0A> Jack Phillips=0A> NX899JP=0A> =0A> -----Ori ginal Message-----=0A> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douwe=0A> B lumberg=0A> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 10:27 AM=0A> To: pietenpolgroup =0A> Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab=0A> Hey gang,=0A> =0A> Three questions:=0A> =0A> 1.- Any suggestions for inex pensively verifying my tach?- is there some sort=0A> of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop?=0A> =0A> 2.- I am running my shoulder bel t attachment back to my tailpost and wanted=0A> thoughts on what size cable to use.- What g's are we realistically=0A> protecting against after whic h it's just silliness?=0A> =0A> 3.- What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling?- what is the best means=0A> of cutting out openings and holes ?=0A> =0A> Thanks, as always!!=0A> =0A> Douwe=0A> =0A> spraying fuse next w eek, then it's all painted!!=0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =0A> =========================0A ================= ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:04 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab http://www.grandrc.com/inc/sdetail/41051 - I used one of the above while doing RC choppers. You look through the windo w toward the top of the unit and adjust the RPM of the unit with the slide on the side. When the object you are looking at through the window, (the pr op, in your case) seems to freeze, you look at the digital readout of the u nit for the RPM. I believe it is good for 2 and 3 blade props/rotors.- (I 've used on fans around the house just for grins...) --- On Thu, 4/16/09, Douwe Blumberg wrote: From: Douwe Blumberg Subject: Pietenpol-List: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab link.net> Hey gang, Three questions: 1.- Any suggestions for inexpensively verifying my tach?- is there some sort of cheap strobe type counter I can use on the prop? 2.- I am running my shoulder belt attachment back to my tailpost and want ed thoughts on what size cable to use.- What g's are we realistically protecting against after which it's just silliness? 3.- What gauge aluminum should I use for my cowling?- what is the best means of cutting out openings and holes? Thanks, as always!! Douwe spraying fuse next week, then it's all painted!! le, List Admin. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:58:24 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab From: "Catdesigns" Douwe I used 1/8th inch cable anchored in 3 places. You can see my basic setup here http://www.westcoastpiet.com/build_pictures_2.htm For you steely eyed people who I know will comment, I did use shorter bolts to attach the seat belts and did away with the large wood washers. Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239556#239556 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:04:59 AM PST US From: "Gardiner Mason" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Jack, I have a couple of setbacks. While weighing for wt and ballance the plane slipped back off the scales and messed up the bottom of nose piece. I am rebuilding it now. Also while filling up my wet wing center section fuel tank lo and behold it leaked profusely. I am now having a new one made out of aluminum. I sure hope my mistakes are over with. I am flying to sun n fun Sunday. Will you be there?Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Congratulations, Gardiner for finishing the Piet and for finally getting Matronics to accept your posts. You've got three months to fly off the time on your Piet and have it ready for Brodhead - should be plenty of time. Hope to see it (and you) there. Jack ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner Mason Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:10 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet. CG is in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for Brodhead but I am not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140 tomake the trip.. Cheers, Gardiner. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding terrain as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is 6,684' above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so it rises over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the Rockies is nearly 6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000' are truly "taller" than the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density altitude is another matter entirely. Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites. Here's typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year. At about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots, groundspeed. Jack Phillips Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to Brodhead. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? 4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:19:35 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Not this year. Trying to get everything together to make Brodhead and maybe Oshkosh, but can't do everything. Sorry to hear about your mishaps. Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner Mason Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 2:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Jack, I have a couple of setbacks. While weighing for wt and ballance the plane slipped back off the scales and messed up the bottom of nose piece. I am rebuilding it now. Also while filling up my wet wing center section fuel tank lo and behold it leaked profusely. I am now having a new one made out of aluminum. I sure hope my mistakes are over with. I am flying to sun n fun Sunday. Will you be there?Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 8:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Congratulations, Gardiner for finishing the Piet and for finally getting Matronics to accept your posts. You've got three months to fly off the time on your Piet and have it ready for Brodhead - should be plenty of time. Hope to see it (and you) there. Jack _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gardiner Mason Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 9:10 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Jack, I am taxiing my piet now, but have not done the paper work yet. CG is in range and wt is 771 so far. I hope to have it ready for Brodhead but I am not going to push it as I still have my Cessna 140 tomake the trip.. Cheers, Gardiner. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gardiner Mason Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 7:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Jack, which tree would go for if you lost your engine? Gardiner ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 3:24 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? Actually, the Appalachians rise about as high above the surrounding terrain as do the Rockies. Mount Mitchell, in western North Carolina is 6,684' above sea level, but the surrounding terrain is only 595' MSL, so it rises over 6,000' above its surroundings. The land around the Rockies is nearly 6,000' MSL, so only the peaks that are over 12,000' are truly "taller" than the highest peaks in the Appalachians. Density altitude is another matter entirely. Neither mountain range has a wealth of good forced landing sites. Here's typical terrain in the Blue Ridge on the way to Brodhead last year. At about this point in the trip, my GPS indicated I was making 27 knots, groundspeed. Jack Phillips Happy I don't have to get any higher than about 4500' to get to Brodhead. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Monday, April 06, 2009 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: slight course deviation to Brodhead/Oshkosh possible ? 4000 ft. high "mounds of dirt" ain't mountains! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:19:35 AM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tach Check The R/C guys (myself included) use an optical tach. The I have is from GloBee. I know a buddy of mine used one to test the tach in his Skybolt. I'd give a link but this phone won't let me copy and paste (yet). They have them at towerhobbies.com for $28. Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from my iPhone ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:21:10 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: verifying tach/cable sizes/cowling fab From: "Catdesigns" I should add that the reason I used three anchor points was to make the load an each anchor as low as possible. I know from rock climbing that the angle between the two anchor points is very important when it comes to lowering the load on the anchors. What you want to shoot for is about a 20 degree angle between each arm of the the sling attached to the two anchor points. This will load each anchor with 1/2 the actual load. Any angle greater then this and you will load the anchors more then half. For a good discussion on this topic see this web page http://www.southeastclimbing.com/faq/faq_anchor_forces.htm Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239568#239568 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.