Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:22 AM - Epoxy chart (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 05:33 AM - Re: Materials List (Michael Perez)
3. 05:33 AM - mountain piet (Douwe Blumberg)
4. 05:33 AM - Re: Materials List (Glenn Thomas)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: Epoxy chart (Jim Markle)
6. 06:53 AM - Epoxy chart (helspersew@aol.com)
7. 08:28 AM - Re: Materials List (TriScout)
8. 08:58 AM - Re: Materials List (K5YAC)
9. 09:54 AM - Re: Re: Materials List (Richard Schreiber)
10. 10:06 AM - Re: Re: Materials List (Dave Abramson)
11. 10:32 AM - Re: Materials List (K5YAC)
12. 10:37 AM - T88 hint......Re: Materials List (K5YAC)
13. 10:59 AM - Re: Re: Materials List (Dave Abramson)
14. 12:09 PM - Re: Re: Materials List (Gary Boothe)
15. 12:49 PM - T-88 (walt)
16. 01:05 PM - Re: T-88 (Kirk Huizenga)
17. 01:22 PM - Re: T-88 (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
18. 01:51 PM - Re: T-88 (walt)
19. 02:49 PM - Re: T-88 (Don Emch)
20. 03:29 PM - Re: Re: T-88 (walt)
21. 03:41 PM - Re: Materials List (TriScout)
22. 03:46 PM - Re: T-88 (Bill Princell)
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Jim,
Any chance you could scan and post a good copy of your chart? I wish I had had
that when I was using a lot of glue. I am sure I wasted much in my estimation
method.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
Hello Larry and welcome.
-
Besides the material for the plane itself, you need material to build a rib
jig, a pre-bending jig and a cap strip soaker. There are many ways to buil
d these items and to save space here, I have emailed you off list. If I may
assist further, email me directly.
-
Welcome to the show!
Message 3
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If my memory serves me correctly, Mountain Piets Subaru engine quit on the
way home from Brodhead. John managed a miraculous emergency landing, in a
yard I think.
I believe the engine quit because of the control nodule (the Brain). There
is an automatic shut off function which turns your car off if it senses
certain problems which might damage the motor. I don't remember what set it
off, but this function had not been disarmed and it sensed something it
didn't like and turned off the motor. It was really a shame, I've rarely
seen craftsmanship like on that plane. This is generally what we all heard
happend from John, though the details might be a bit off due to my memory.
Great motor, great plane, great pilot, and a very great God...
Douwe
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
Hi Larry,
The ribs are a good place to be starting. ...lots of little pieces (I think I
had to make 960 gussets) with about 45 total pieces in each rib. Some of us didn't
use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptable in his book.
I found that while the jig took a little longer to make, making ribs with clamps
meant instead of using several nails in each of the 30 gussets per rib I
just lifted, turned and dropped the clamp and moved on to the next gusset. It
was pretty simple to make and I used that system on my empennage too, although
the time-savings paid off more in the rib building since you're making quite
a few of the same part. Used 1/4" carriage bolts, wingnuts and paint sticks.
The clamps were easy to uproot and reuse to make other parts as well. There
are a few of this who have used a variation of this method. Also, no nails
to remove when done. Here's a few pictures to give you some more ideas.
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=21&filter=0
http://www.flyingwood.com/index.asp?page=4&filter=0
Have fun, this is a fantastic project and great community!
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240437#240437
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Jim,
Those word docs are great. Thanks from me, and I am sure a bunch of others on this
list. No need for scanning.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
Thanks guys..
This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the time
to reply.
I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still have
some plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll have to
disect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib nails as well..
little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some ordering to do,
and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine it'll take a bit
of time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before cranking them out...
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240477#240477
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention (no nails),
I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his options
too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set? I'm considering
leaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage except the few ounces
of weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing or something?
Glenn Thomas wrote:
> Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is acceptable
in his book.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240478#240478
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
why not just use 1/4 inch staples and a light weight staple gun. Its fast
and easy. The staples can then be easily pulled out with a small end nipper
type pliers. Thats the way I did it. I jigged up one rib and glued and
stapled one side. Pulled it from the form and added the gussets on the
other side. I then pulled the staples from the rib that was glued up the
day before. It usually took me less than an hour to glue up a complete rib
and remove the staples from another. On my best day I think I did four ribs
one Saturday afternoon.
Rick Schreiber
> [Original Message]
> From: K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 4/21/2009 11:01:48 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
>
>
> Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention
(no nails), I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility.
>
> I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his
options too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set?
I'm considering leaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage except
the few ounces of weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing
or something?
>
>
> Glenn Thomas wrote:
> > Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is
acceptable in his book.
>
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240478#240478
>
>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.
Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.
Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....
My 2 cents.....
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:57 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Absolutely right Glenn, even though I considered the method you mention (no
nails), I totally forgot to mention it as a possibility.
I don't want to hijack the thread, but this may help Larry consider his
options too... how many nail guys actually pull them when the glue is set?
I'm considering leaving mine in. Is their any major disadvantage except the
few ounces of weight? Do they come loose and bounce around in the wing or
something?
Glenn Thomas wrote:
> Some of us didn't use any nails, which Tony Bingelis also notes is
acceptable in his book.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240478#240478
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
I'm using the glue covered nails too, so I guess I'll leave them in as well.
Great idea on the staples Rick.
davea(at)symbolicdisplays wrote:
> I left my nails in.... too much hassle to pull out, plus will damage wood.
>
> Bought the "glue covered nails" from AC spruce.
>
> Glue covered nails are not meant to be removed....
>
> My 2 cents.....
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> --
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240505#240505
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Subject: | Re: T88 hint......Re: Materials List |
Awesome! I have a digital scale for reloading that will work great for this method.
Thanks for the info Jim!
--------
Mark
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240506#240506
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
What happened to the FOKKER?????
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TriScout
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Thanks guys..
This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the
time to reply.
I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still
have some plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll
have to disect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib
nails as well.. little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some
ordering to do, and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine
it'll take a bit of time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before
cranking them out...
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240477#240477
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
I tink dat Fokker vas a Messerschmidt. (thanks for walking into it)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear
(13 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Abramson
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 10:57 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
<davea@symbolicdisplays.com>
What happened to the FOKKER?????
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of TriScout
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 8:28 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Materials List
Thanks guys..
This is excellent info! Fast replies as well. Thanks to all for taking the
time to reply.
I did build 77 ribs for a full scale Fokker Dr1 a few years back. I still
have some plywood sheets/finnish wood from Aircraft Spruce in storage. I'll
have to disect my shed and take inventory today. I have a bag of brass rib
nails as well.. little quarter inchers I believe, but I'll still have some
ordering to do, and maybe convert that Fokker Jig into a Piet Jig. I imagine
it'll take a bit of time to get the jig tweaked to work just right before
cranking them out...
Larry
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240477#240477
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Being through 2 projects using T-88, I think everyone is going off on a
tangent with this.
Rarely do you have to mix enough glue to have to weigh it.
When building my Piet, I used only 1 1/2 of the kits that someone showed
a pic of.
That's without starving joints, with all the joints up to spec.
When I mixed glue for a normal glueing session, I used an old saucer
from the cabinet that was a throwaway.
Just cut the nozzles at the same length, to get equal bead widths.
Simply run two beads along side each other, making sure you don't
stretch the beads or pile them up.
T-88 is equal amounts per volume. So equal lengths + equal widths =
Good
Go to the drug store and buy tongue depressors. Grab the end in your
teeth and pull it and split it long ways.
Now you have 2 applicators.
Make beads 1 1/2" long and you can do a rib or more.
Only time I mixed in cups, is when I glued, like the ply to the fuse
side.
If you need more ,,mix more. Just don't touch either bottle to what's
left of the old mix. It'll mess the full bottle.
When done,,wipe the plate with a paper towel.
After awhile you can chip off the old glue layers with an old wood
chisel by hand.
Also T-88 is amazing, cause it works just as well on wet wood!
Check the spec
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 16
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You may be right Walt. For what it is worth, it is equal amounts by
volume, but if you do weigh it is 100/83 Resin to Hardener (at least
it was when I called System Three a number of years ago)
Just an FYI for us with scales that sometimes mix up bigger batches
and like spreadsheets
Kirk
On Apr 21, 2009, at 2:47 PM, walt wrote:
> Being through 2 projects using T-88, I think everyone is going off
> on a tangent with this.
> Rarely do you have to mix enough glue to have to weigh it.
> When building my Piet, I used only 1 1/2 of the kits that someone
> showed a pic of.
> That's without starving joints, with all the joints up to spec.
> When I mixed glue for a normal glueing session, I used an old saucer
> from the cabinet that was a throwaway.
> Just cut the nozzles at the same length, to get equal bead widths.
> Simply run two beads along side each other, making sure you don't
> stretch the beads or pile them up.
> T-88 is equal amounts per volume. So equal lengths + equal widths =
> Good
> Go to the drug store and buy tongue depressors. Grab the end in
> your teeth and pull it and split it long ways.
> Now you have 2 applicators.
> Make beads 1 1/2" long and you can do a rib or more.
>
> Only time I mixed in cups, is when I glued, like the ply to the fuse
> side.
>
> If you need more ,,mix more. Just don't touch either bottle to
> what's left of the old mix. It'll mess the full bottle.
>
> When done,,wipe the plate with a paper towel.
> After awhile you can chip off the old glue layers with an old wood
> chisel by hand.
>
> Also T-88 is amazing, cause it works just as well on wet wood!
> Check the spec
>
> walt evans
> NX140DL
>
>
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you guys are killing me here with all that measuring I count rather than
scale. I use west systems epoxy from west marine great stuff and the mix is
simple one pump of resin and one pump of hardner into my little black
plastic Quiznos cup, get the wooded coffee stirrer from the local 7-11 or
equivalent convenience store and get out the flux brush for some serious
gluing. I make up a batch and use it all up at a couple of different sites so
none of it goes to waste.
Now that's gluin, life is good!
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
hmpgID%3D62%26bcd%3DAprilfooter421NO62)
Message 18
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Kirk,
Don't get me wrong.
You are absolutly right in your figuring.
On my first project, I got all the cups and things.
But then realized,,,you don't need that much!
So much is wasted in a cup.
That's way I wrote what I wrote
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Kirk Huizenga
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: T-88
You may be right Walt. For what it is worth, it is equal amounts by
volume, but if you do weigh it is 100/83 Resin to Hardener (at least it
was when I called System Three a number of years ago)
Just an FYI for us with scales that sometimes mix up bigger batches
and like spreadsheets
Kirk
On Apr 21, 2009, at 2:47 PM, walt wrote:
Being through 2 projects using T-88, I think everyone is going off
on a tangent with this.
Rarely do you have to mix enough glue to have to weigh it.
When building my Piet, I used only 1 1/2 of the kits that someone
showed a pic of.
That's without starving joints, with all the joints up to spec.
When I mixed glue for a normal glueing session, I used an old saucer
from the cabinet that was a throwaway.
Just cut the nozzles at the same length, to get equal bead widths.
Simply run two beads along side each other, making sure you don't
stretch the beads or pile them up.
T-88 is equal amounts per volume. So equal lengths + equal widths
= Good
Go to the drug store and buy tongue depressors. Grab the end in
your teeth and pull it and split it long ways.
Now you have 2 applicators.
Make beads 1 1/2" long and you can do a rib or more.
Only time I mixed in cups, is when I glued, like the ply to the fuse
side.
If you need more ,,mix more. Just don't touch either bottle to
what's left of the old mix. It'll mess the full bottle.
When done,,wipe the plate with a paper towel.
After awhile you can chip off the old glue layers with an old wood
chisel by hand.
Also T-88 is amazing, cause it works just as well on wet wood!
Check the spec
walt evans
NX140DL
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat
ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
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Walt,
I did exactly as you (laying 2 beads side by side) and never had a problem with
any joints on my plane nor with any of the sample test pieces that I made to
destroy. Always tore the wood and not the glue. Good stuff.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Trusting T-88 for a couple hundred hours now....
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240539#240539
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Don,
Good for you.
I learned from a Fisher builder, how to only mix what you needed.
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Emch" <EmchAir@aol.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 2009 5:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: T-88
>
> Walt,
>
> I did exactly as you (laying 2 beads side by side) and never had a problem
> with any joints on my plane nor with any of the sample test pieces that I
> made to destroy. Always tore the wood and not the glue. Good stuff.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
> Trusting T-88 for a couple hundred hours now....
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=240539#240539
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Materials List |
Don't have the plans yet and don't know how it translates to fokker ribs, but you'd
just leave the nails in on the ones I built. Will "attempt to attach" photos..
if you can see nails in there.. Any thoughts on this for the piet?
What happened to the Fokker someone axed..er..asked? Too big a project and aint
as fun/cheap as a Piet. Fokkers belong at Rhinebeck. A piet seems to be more
realistic as a solo project and about a quarter or third the cost of a Tripe.
You should really have a team or couple folk building a full scale war replica,
(my humble opinion) as well as a few ground folk to help you fly it. The Piet
is more like the Champ I used to have. One can fly it on his/her own. Plus you
can give your kids, and later, grandkids a ride. I still have those ribs as
garage wall decor..
Atleast I have some practice with many a rib..
Larry
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For what it's worth - The best way I've found is to use the paper ketchup
cups from a food restaurant. Take a flat tongue suppressor and make three
marks across the width at 1/4", 1/2" and 3/4" at one end using a ball point
pen. When you're ready to measure, lay the flat side of the tongue
suppressor against the inside of the cup and transfer one of calibration
marks to the inside of the cup with a pen or pencil. Do the same to a second
cup. Pour epoxy to your line mark in one cup and then hardener to the line
mark in the second cup. Pour the contents of the epoxy cup into the cup with
the hardener and mix thoroughly. Throw both cups away when your finished. I
found that a 1/4" in each cup when mixed,(that's a 1/2" mixed T-88), usually
gives me enough to glue all of the gussets on one side of a wing rib, before
the it starts to thicken and cure out.
The plastic coffee stir sticks can be used also. Cut them in half and use
the lower flat end to stir and then apply the epoxy.
Bill Princell - Noblesville, IN
Corvair Powered/GN1 Rebuild Project
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