---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/08/09: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:33 AM - Tail handling (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 05:02 AM - Re: Tail handling (gcardinal) 3. 05:13 AM - footnote in Pietenpol history (lnawms@yahoo.com) 4. 05:56 AM - Re: Tail handling (Jack Phillips) 5. 06:34 AM - Re: Tail handling (Ryan Mueller) 6. 07:12 AM - Re: Tail handling (Andrew M Eldredge) 7. 07:58 AM - Re: Tail handling (Dick N.) 8. 08:07 AM - Re: footnote in Pietenpol history (Dick N.) 9. 08:44 AM - Tail handling (santiago morete) 10. 09:44 AM - Re: Tail handling (Ben Charvet) 11. 10:39 AM - Re: Tail handling (Rick Holland) 12. 10:41 AM - Re: Tail handling (H RULE) 13. 11:53 AM - Tail handling (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 12:51 PM - Varnish for Fuse Interior (Andrew M Eldredge) 15. 01:13 PM - Re: Varnish for Fuse Interior (amsafetyc@aol.com) 16. 01:38 PM - Re: Varnish for Fuse Interior (Bill Church) 17. 04:04 PM - Re: footnote in Pietenpol history (helspersew@aol.com) 18. 05:41 PM - Re: Tail handling (Lagowski Morrow) 19. 05:46 PM - Re: Tail handling (Lagowski Morrow) 20. 05:54 PM - Re: Tail handling (Gary Boothe) 21. 06:03 PM - Re: Tail handling (Don Emch) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:44 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling From: helspersew@aol.com Everyone, I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse already. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL Everything covered except the wing ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:02:03 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling On NX18235 a handle is attached to the aft fuselage at the point where the tailskid A-frame connects to the fuselage. Grabbing the tailskid A-frame works just as well but I tend to get tangled up in the elevator and rudder cables. Installing a grab handle along the lower longeron about 3 feet forward of the A-frame would have been useful. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Everyone, I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse already. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL Everything covered except the wing ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:03 AM PST US From: lnawms@yahoo.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history As I was reading a newly arrived aviation publication and reviewing some po sts on this site, I recalled when I was a new enthusiast to the Pietenpol s cene and the respect paid to Mr. Pietenpol was of the highest order. It was common knowledge that Mr. Pietenpol really, really, really-disliked bein g called "Bernie"so, nobody ever did.-He was addressed and referred to- as either Mr. Pietenpol or Bernard and if anyone new came along and slipped up they either got the evil eye or were politely informed of their infract ion. - In this day of overall decline in innocence and trust, it sure would be nic e to hold on to at least a little scrap of honor-for a man who-gave us the gift-of building and flying something that hearkens back to a much- simpler and better-time in America. - Please, no more "Bernie" for those of us who honor the man and his airplane .. - Thanks- - Larry W. xcg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:56:32 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling I agree with Greg. I wish I had put a handle on my lower longerons. The tail is fairly heavy, and reaching through the bird's nest of cables just forward of the stabilizer is not easy. I would NOT pick it up by the stabilizer, since nothing on the stabilizer ahead of the spar is attached to the fuselage and you would be relying on the rib capstrips to support the weight of the entire tail. With a tailwheel which can go into full swivel, I find that I tend to push mine around on the ground with the tail bracing wires where they attach to the vertical fin. Not a very good solution, but handy. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:01 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling On NX18235 a handle is attached to the aft fuselage at the point where the tailskid A-frame connects to the fuselage. Grabbing the tailskid A-frame works just as well but I tend to get tangled up in the elevator and rudder cables. Installing a grab handle along the lower longeron about 3 feet forward of the A-frame would have been useful. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Everyone, I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse already. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL Everything covered except the wing _____ Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:38 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling From: Ryan Mueller Dan, Bill Rewey installed a handle on his Piet. Here's a shot from WestCoastPiet (thanks Chris!): http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/DSCF0039.JPG I believe it is just two U channels with the handle welded to each, and then the channels come up onto the longeron from underneath and bolts are run through. Not that that helps you much, since you have already covered your fuse. Have a good weekend, Ryan On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:27 AM, wrote: > Everyone, > > I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you > need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are > you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those > with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. > I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I > forgot, and covered the fuse already. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL > Everything covered except the wing > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:13 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling From: Andrew M Eldredge 7229R Never had a handle, I just reach down and put my hand under the lower longeron and pick the tail up. Andrew On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:33 AM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > Dan, > > Bill Rewey installed a handle on his Piet. Here's a shot from WestCoastPiet > (thanks Chris!): > > http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Bill%20Rewey/DSCF0039.JPG > > I believe it is just two U channels with the handle welded to each, and > then the channels come up onto the longeron from underneath and bolts are > run through. Not that that helps you much, since you have already covered > your fuse. > > Have a good weekend, > > Ryan > > > On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 6:27 AM, wrote: > >> Everyone, >> >> I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when >> you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. >> Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? >> Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. >> I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I >> forgot, and covered the fuse already. >> >> Dan Helsper >> Poplar Grove, IL >> Everything covered except the wing >> >> > * > > > * > > -- Andrew M. Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:30 AM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Greg and Jack I put a handle as you described on my first Piet. It didn't work out very well. The lifting force would bend the longereon a bit, so I removed them. If you could find a way of supporting the handle it would be a big help. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling I agree with Greg. I wish I had put a handle on my lower longerons. The tail is fairly heavy, and reaching through the bird's nest of cables just forward of the stabilizer is not easy. I would NOT pick it up by the stabilizer, since nothing on the stabilizer ahead of the spar is attached to the fuselage and you would be relying on the rib capstrips to support the weight of the entire tail. With a tailwheel which can go into full swivel, I find that I tend to push mine around on the ground with the tail bracing wires where they attach to the vertical fin. Not a very good solution, but handy. Jack Phillips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 8:01 AM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling On NX18235 a handle is attached to the aft fuselage at the point where the tailskid A-frame connects to the fuselage. Grabbing the tailskid A-frame works just as well but I tend to get tangled up in the elevator and rudder cables. Installing a grab handle along the lower longeron about 3 feet forward of the A-frame would have been useful. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 6:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Everyone, I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse already. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL Everything covered except the wing ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">h ttp://forums.matronics.comhref="http://www.matronics.com/contribution"> http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:07:13 AM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history Thank you, very well said. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: lnawms@yahoo.com To: Pietlist Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history As I was reading a newly arrived aviation publication and reviewing some posts on this site, I recalled when I was a new enthusiast to the Pietenpol scene and the respect paid to Mr. Pietenpol was of the highest order. It was common knowledge that Mr. Pietenpol really, really, really disliked being called "Bernie"so, nobody ever did. He was addressed and referred to as either Mr. Pietenpol or Bernard and if anyone new came along and slipped up they either got the evil eye or were politely informed of their infraction. In this day of overall decline in innocence and trust, it sure would be nice to hold on to at least a little scrap of honor for a man who gave us the gift of building and flying something that hearkens back to a much simpler and better time in America. Please, no more "Bernie" for those of us who honor the man and his airplane. Thanks- Larry W. xcg, xcmr, epp ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:05 AM PST US From: santiago morete Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Hi Dan, - When we were-in Oshkosh last year, we saw-in the unfinished Air Camper inside-Pietenpol's hangar, a nice way to put a handle in the tail (photo attached).- Maybe is to late for you, but can be useful to someone else. - Saludos - Santiago=0A=0A=0A ____________________________________________________ ________________________________=0A=A1Viv=ED la mejor experiencia en la web !=0ADescarg=E1 gratis el nuevo Internet Explorer 8=0Ahttp://downloads.yahoo .com/ieak8/?l=ar ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:18 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Glad to know I'm not the only one that lays awake at night second guessing myself! Ben Charvet finishing up covering the fuselage, wings covered and painted helspersew@aol.com wrote: > Everyone, > > I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground > when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at > Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the > horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address > this problem. > I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I > forgot, and covered the fuse already. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL > Everything covered except the wing > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL > Shopping > . > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling From: Rick Holland I have taken that same picture. It is where I got the idea to used those fairleads for the rudder and eleveator cables hanging out the side of the fuselage. Rick On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 9:41 AM, santiago morete wrote: > Hi Dan, > > When we were in Oshkosh last year, we saw in the unfinished Air Camper > inside Pietenpol's hangar, a nice way to put a handle in the tail (photo > attached). Maybe is to late for you, but can be useful to someone else. > Saludos > > Santiago > > ------------------------------ > > Yahoo! Cocina > Recetas pr=E1cticas y comida saludable > Visit=E1 http://ar.mujer.yahoo.com/cocina/ > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:41:11 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling I pick it up by the tail wheel and move it around.Better still get the wife to pick up the tail wheel and move it around. Just be careful she doesn't have anything heavy in her hand when you tell her to do that for ya ;-D=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ben Charvet =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Friday, May 8, 20 09 11:57:04 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling=0A=0A--> Pieten pol-List message posted by: Ben Charvet =0A=0AGlad to know I'm not the only one that lays awake at night second guessing mysel f!=0A=0ABen Charvet=0Afinishing up covering the fuselage, wings covered and painted=0A=0Ahelspersew@aol.com wrote:=0A> Everyone,=0A> =0A> I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to mov e it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem.=0A> I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse a lready.=0A> =0A> Dan Helsper=0A> Poplar Grove, IL=0A> Everything covered ex cept the wing=0A> =0A> ---------------------------------------------------- --------------------=0A> Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Air Camper NX41CC has common hardware store door handles attached to the lo wer longerons on both sides of the tail and I use the one on the port side almost every time I move the airplane. See http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P7090010.JPG and the handle is vis ible just aft of the roundel. I maneuver the airplane in and out of the hangar with a home-made tailwheel dolly=2C details at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dolly.html . Such a dolly could handle a tailskid as easily as it handles a tailwheel. Harvey=2C if I asked my wife to grab the tailwheel of the Piet and move it out of the hangar for me=2C I'd be eating vienna sausages and crackers and sleeping out on the street tonight. Either that or she'd stuff me in the c ockpit of my @#$%& airplane and the tailwheel along with it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnish for Fuse Interior From: Andrew M Eldredge Is any varnish acceptable for application to fuselage interiors? I'll leaning toward Home Depot Urethane.. I know almost nothing about varnishing -- Andrew M. Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:13:35 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Varnish for Fuse Interior From: amsafetyc@aol.com Andrew You need to get hold of Rick Schreiber he is Mr coatings. Very knowledgeable and can provide the material you need. I am using his finish and like it. The good news is he's on the board and a Piet builder. I can provide you his contact info off list John ------Original Message------ From: Andrew M Eldredge Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board Sent: May 8, 2009 3:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Varnish for Fuse Interior Is any varnish acceptable for application to fuselage interiors? I'll leaning toward Home Depot Urethane.. I know almost nothing about varnishing -- Andrew M. Eldredge Sahuarita, AZ Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:53 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Varnish for Fuse Interior From: "Bill Church" Andrew, If you decide to go with urethane (as many have done), make sure you get Exterior Grade Spar Urethane. In addition to sealing the wood against moisture, it has UV blockers to help protect the wood against damage from the sun's UV rays. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:38 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history From: helspersew@aol.com This is the least we can do to honor a man with such foresight and enthusiasm. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. -----Original Message----- From: lnawms@yahoo.com Sent: Fri, 8 May 2009 7:12 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: footnote in Pietenpol history As I was reading a newly arrived aviation publication and reviewing some posts on this site, I recalled when I was a new enthusiast to the Pietenpol scene and the respect paid to Mr. Pietenpol was of the highest order. It was common knowledge that Mr. Pietenpol really, really, really?disliked being called "Bernie"so, nobody ever did.?He was addressed and referred to?as either Mr. Pietenpol or Bernard and if anyone new came along and slipped up they either got the evil eye or were politely informed of their infraction. ? In this day of overall decline in innocence and trust, it sure would be nice to hold on to at least a little scrap of honor?for a man who?gave us the gift?of building and flying something that hearkens back to a much?simpler and better?time in America. ? Please, no more "Bernie" for those of us who honor the man and his airplane. ? Thanks- ? Larry W. xcg, xcmr, epp ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:52 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling I put an aluminum tube thru the fuselage ahead of the horizontal. It is bolted with cover straps to the lower longerons. A shaved broom handle is the pickup, and is then removed to my"big" storage compartment in the turtle deck. Painted snap in caps cover the holes on each side of the fuselage.---Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ( sometimes known as one Piet) ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Everyone, I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse already. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL Everything covered except the wing ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05/07/09 18:05:00 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:47 PM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling I use a dolly like Oscar. It really works.----Jim lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Air Camper NX41CC has common hardware store door handles attached to the lower longerons on both sides of the tail and I use the one on the port side almost every time I move the airplane. See http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/P7090010.JPG and the handle is visible just aft of the roundel. I maneuver the airplane in and out of the hangar with a home-made tailwheel dolly, details at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/dolly.html . Such a dolly could handle a tailskid as easily as it handles a tailwheel. Harvey, if I asked my wife to grab the tailwheel of the Piet and move it out of the hangar for me, I'd be eating vienna sausages and crackers and sleeping out on the street tonight. Either that or she'd stuff me in the cockpit of my @#$%& airplane and the tailwheel along with it. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05/08/09 06:34:00 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:54:42 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling NICE! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage ready for gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lagowski Morrow Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 5:41 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling I put an aluminum tube thru the fuselage ahead of the horizontal. It is bolted with cover straps to the lower longerons. A shaved broom handle is the pickup, and is then removed to my"big" storage compartment in the turtle deck. Painted snap in caps cover the holes on each side of the fuselage.---Jim Lagowski, NX221PT ( sometimes known as one Piet) ----- Original Message ----- From: helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, May 08, 2009 7:27 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Tail handling Everyone, I am curious as to how you all move your tail around on the ground when you need to move it. I have not seen any aft fuselage handles at Brodhead. Are you able to pick-up the tail by grabbing on to the horizontal stab? Those with only a skid, especially have to address this problem. I was lying in bed last night thinking that if I need that handle, I forgot, and covered the fuse already. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL Everything covered except the wing _____ Shopping for Mom? Save yourself a little time and money on AOL Shopping. href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c _____ - Release Date: 05/07/09 18:05:00 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 06:03:11 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Tail handling From: "Don Emch" The "A-Frame" for the tailwheel/skid makes a great handle. I pick up mine to move it all the time. It is easier to move like that than it is to push the plane with the tail down. Just reach down through the rudder and elevator cables. The more you think about the basic design and how you might improve it, the more weight you add! Build light! Have yet to talk to a Piet pilot that regrets building too simple and too light. 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