Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:25 AM - "Bernie" & High flying (Lawrence Williams)
2. 07:18 AM - Re: Mountain Flying (rameses32)
3. 12:14 PM - Re: high altitudes in a Piet (Pieti Lowell)
4. 12:41 PM - Re: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper (Pieti Lowell)
5. 02:51 PM - Re: high altitudes in a Piet (shad bell)
6. 03:24 PM - vid for a Sunday (walt)
7. 03:48 PM - Re: "Bernie" & High flying (Rob Stapleton)
8. 04:14 PM - Piet mods (Lawrence Williams)
9. 04:20 PM - Re: "Bernie" & High flying (walt)
10. 04:35 PM - Re: "Bernie" & High flying (Jack Phillips)
11. 06:21 PM - Re: high altitudes in a Piet (H RULE)
12. 06:37 PM - Tube fuselage (Will42)
13. 07:14 PM - how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? (Oscar Zuniga)
14. 07:39 PM - Re: Re: high flight (Dick N.)
15. 07:50 PM - Re: vid for a Sunday (Dick N.)
16. 09:54 PM - Re: Re: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper (jorge lizarraga)
17. 09:54 PM - Re: high altitudes in a Piet (Steve Ruse)
18. 11:48 PM - Re: Piet mods (Dick N.)
Message 1
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| Subject: | "Bernie" & High flying |
Mike C. Check out articles in the Grant McLaren-era BPANewsletters, Jim Van
dervoort, Ed Sampson-and other old-timers about how Mr. Pietenpol preferr
ed to be addressed. If it isn't a big deal to you don't sweat it, the earth
isn't going to end if you say "Bernie" but I was hoping to-instill a bit
of fast-disappearing respect for someone who I consider a pioneer to aviat
ion history.
-
Oscar,et al; I had my Piet up to 5,000agl-(5350 msl)-last fall on a coo
l day (wouldn't go any higher!!) and the feeling I had could only be descri
bed as "eerie and lonely". I also noticed that at idle for the sledride dow
n, the controls felt A LOT different than they normally do. I think it must
have been due to the lack of torque from the "A" and the resulting off-set
ting control input that made it feel a little sloppy. Anyway, I got it up t
here and set the central Arkansas record for altitude in Lonoke County for
a Ford powered parasol configured tail-dragger, so I don't have to do-tha
t ever again! I think 2,000' will be my limit and-500-1,000 is still goin
g to be my preferred block.
-
Larry W. ecg, xcmr, epp=0A=0A=0A
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| Subject: | Re: Mountain Flying |
Holy Pietenpol Batman, Now thats an Engine!
Pieti Lowell wrote:
> Hi Gang:
> If any one is concerned about getting over a mountain 8000 ft. or more, try this
combination that I tried a few years ago. Altitude wasn't any problem but
fuel consumption was. That is a 145 plus HP Warner, when it was installed I never
changed wing position, and it weighted 50 lbs more than my Ford. Flew strong
and fast.
> Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243389#243389
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| Subject: | Re: high altitudes in a Piet |
Mike, when you talk to Vi, he always said "Bernie". as I recall, when I spoke to
Bernie, I called him "Mr Pietenpol". He sure was a great guy that had time for
anyone and every one. My red Piet With Funk engine's number was , the year
Bernie was born, the year he died and BP. And I just flew her to Palmyra for it's
annual yesterday. The owner, JoBeth Barrett, trained in the Piet to get taildragger
time, before flying her Stearman. Will try to get her to Brodhead.
Pieti Lowell
Regarding the Bernie vs. Bernard comments, would it also be a dishonoring thing
to call a Piet a Piet instead of the formal Pietenpol then ? Also, who exactly
can be quoted that knew Bernard directly who could comment specifically that he
did or did not care for being called Bernie ? Many "well known" facts about
the Pietenpol turn out to be heresay and old wives tales that are started and just
passed along without thought or fact---just curious is all. One thing I
do
know is that Pietenpol was a very odd duck personality type--much like his followers
! (myself included:)
Mike C.[/quote]
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243412#243412
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| Subject: | Re: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper |
My opinion would be, test stand proof.
Prop pitch to turn 2400 RPM
Remove all steel that is replaceable with Al.Pan, rocker cover etc.
I think that is a vacuum pump under the fuel pump, got to go.
Replace pulleys that are required with Al.
Compare this engine to a Ford Fiesta, on a Piet flown from the East coast to Brodhead.
The weight can be trimmed to be Pietenpol worthy, but I think it may be a bit shy
on CIs. to haul 2 heavies on a warm day.
It will be a smooth runner, at 2200 RPM.
The spark advance must return to retard, or she will snap a finger or two, with
the Ign. system I see, when hand started.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243421#243421
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| Subject: | Re: high altitudes in a Piet |
In the test phases of 92GB I got bored and climbed up to 7500 ft on a 90 de
gree july day.- Man what a view!- I was enjoying the cool air untill a
Northwest Airlines DC9 went about 1000ft or so over head going into columbu
s 25 miles to the south, so I said the Hell with it get me out of his way!!
- Haven't got that bored to climb that high since,- I used a cut off wh
eat field for thermal assistance for some extra lift.
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | vid for a Sunday |
A guy flying the river to the tune of "Treetop flyer" by Stephen Stills.
(one of the guitar greats)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA.
watch it if you want ,,,delete it if you don't.
Do Not Archive
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 7
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| Subject: | "Bernie" & High flying |
For those of you that have been responding to this just what is the
service ceiling on a Piet with a Model A, Corvair etc. engines?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying
Mike C. Check out articles in the Grant McLaren-era BPANewsletters, Jim
Vandervoort, Ed Sampson and other old-timers about how Mr. Pietenpol
preferred to be addressed. If it isn't a big deal to you don't sweat it,
the earth isn't going to end if you say "Bernie" but I was hoping to
instill a bit of fast-disappearing respect for someone who I consider a
pioneer to aviation history.
Oscar,et al; I had my Piet up to 5,000agl (5350 msl) last fall on a cool
day (wouldn't go any higher!!) and the feeling I had could only be
described as "eerie and lonely". I also noticed that at idle for the
sledride down, the controls felt A LOT different than they normally do.
I think it must have been due to the lack of torque from the "A" and the
resulting off-setting control input that made it feel a little sloppy.
Anyway, I got it up there and set the central Arkansas record for
altitude in Lonoke County for a Ford powered parasol configured
tail-dragger, so I don't have to do that ever again! I think 2,000' will
be my limit and 500-1,000 is still going to be my preferred block.
Larry W. ecg, xcmr, epp
Message 8
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Wow! Great article in the latest S.A. about the long range ramifications of
major modifications to proven designs. Read over Kerry Fores' article on p
g. 114.
-
Seems that the bottom line to the story is this:
As the builder you can modify it all you want but-shouldn't register your
800# fully accessorized, electrified and modernized-creation as a Pieten
pol Air Camper. Spare us who closely followed the plans the agony of having
to put up with the possible fall-out of your actions if they go awry.
-
It might also be a good idea to not register it as a Pietenpol if it wasn't
built from BHP's plans!!! (ie. there is no such thing as a Pietenpol GN-1)
.
-
Larry-W.......... (heading for cover)=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: "Bernie" & High flying |
Rob,
On the certified planes, they know because they're all built the same.
But in our community, where they are all built with different weights,
and different power plants, I'm sure the numbers would vary Very
greatly.
I built very light, and it climbs great. So I'm sure that mine would go
very high.
But like the postings of recently. I haven't got the chops for it.
Always been afraid of heights, and when I get to 2000AGL, I get the
creeps.
Think it's the feeling up high, that you can't tell the attitude of the
plane.
I can zip over the trees at 500 feet all day, cause you can see when you
are yawing right or yawing left.
Up high you are hanging by a thread, not moving. Sometimes I'm up high
and look down at the panel and the ball is way over to the side. I have
no sensation of attitude. Don't like it.
Low and Slow is what I like
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Stapleton
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying
For those of you that have been responding to this just what is the
service ceiling on a Piet with a Model A, Corvair etc. engines?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM
To: Pietlist
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying
Mike C. Check out articles in the Grant McLaren-era
BPANewsletters, Jim Vandervoort, Ed Sampson and other old-timers about
how Mr. Pietenpol preferred to be addressed. If it isn't a big deal to
you don't sweat it, the earth isn't going to end if you say "Bernie" but
I was hoping to instill a bit of fast-disappearing respect for someone
who I consider a pioneer to aviation history.
Oscar,et al; I had my Piet up to 5,000agl (5350 msl) last fall
on a cool day (wouldn't go any higher!!) and the feeling I had could
only be described as "eerie and lonely". I also noticed that at idle for
the sledride down, the controls felt A LOT different than they normally
do. I think it must have been due to the lack of torque from the "A" and
the resulting off-setting control input that made it feel a little
sloppy. Anyway, I got it up there and set the central Arkansas record
for altitude in Lonoke County for a Ford powered parasol configured
tail-dragger, so I don't have to do that ever again! I think 2,000' will
be my limit and 500-1,000 is still going to be my preferred block.
Larry W. ecg, xcmr, epp
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -->
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List -
MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com -
List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin. -->
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 10
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| Subject: | "Bernie" & High flying |
Rob,
The FAA's definition of service ceiling is the altitude where, at gross
weight and max rate of climb, the rate of climb produced is 100 feet per
minute. Based on that, my Pietenpol's (745 lb empty weight, 65 hp
Continental) service ceiling is just above sea level. At my listed gross
weight of 1245 lbs (full fuel, 2 200 lb souls and 10 lbs of baggage), on a
hot day I get right at 100 feet per minute climb. A cool day makes a big
difference, as does ANY lightening of the airframe and/or pilot and
passenger. On a cooler day with me by myself, half tank of fuel and no
baggage, I can zoom right up there at close to 500 fpm. Think of this as
the best of all reasons to go on a diet.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Stapleton
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:46 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying
For those of you that have been responding to this just what is the service
ceiling on a Piet with a Model A, Corvair etc. engines?
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence
Williams
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying
Mike C. Check out articles in the Grant McLaren-era BPANewsletters, Jim
Vandervoort, Ed Sampson and other old-timers about how Mr. Pietenpol
preferred to be addressed. If it isn't a big deal to you don't sweat it, the
earth isn't going to end if you say "Bernie" but I was hoping to instill a
bit of fast-disappearing respect for someone who I consider a pioneer to
aviation history.
Oscar,et al; I had my Piet up to 5,000agl (5350 msl) last fall on a cool day
(wouldn't go any higher!!) and the feeling I had could only be described as
"eerie and lonely". I also noticed that at idle for the sledride down, the
controls felt A LOT different than they normally do. I think it must have
been due to the lack of torque from the "A" and the resulting off-setting
control input that made it feel a little sloppy. Anyway, I got it up there
and set the central Arkansas record for altitude in Lonoke County for a Ford
powered parasol configured tail-dragger, so I don't have to do that ever
again! I think 2,000' will be my limit and 500-1,000 is still going to be my
preferred block.
Larry W. ecg, xcmr, epp
- The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
--> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
- MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
--> http://forums.matronics.com
- List Contribution Web Site -
Thank you for your generous support!
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: high altitudes in a Piet |
I find big paved parking lots like those at Walmarts etc. are great for the
rmals.They get you up there fast!Gives the shoppers something to see as wel
l.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: shad bell <aviato
rbell@yahoo.com>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Sunday, May 10,
2009 5:50:39 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: high altitudes in a Piet=0A
=0A=0AIn the test phases of 92GB I got bored and climbed up to 7500 ft on a
90 degree july day.- Man what a view!- I was enjoying the cool air unt
ill a Northwest Airlines DC9 went about 1000ft or so over head going into c
olumbus 25 miles to the south, so I said the Hell with it get me out of his
way!!- Haven't got that bored to climb that high since,- I used a cut
off wheat field for thermal assistance for some extra lift.=0A=0AShad =0A
===================
Message 12
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My '32 Flying and Glider manual has plans for the wood fuselage and the tubing
one. The tube rear cockpit is shorter on the bottom and longer on the top than
the wood one. Why would that be? Seems like the pilot would be leaning much farther
rearward; not a comfortable position for me and poorer visibility. Any
comments? Thanks so much................Will42
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243471#243471
Message 13
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| Subject: | how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? |
Raymond wrote:
>the only thing that makes me wonder about trying to get full rated horsepo
wer and more
>from a car engine is -I doubt they're built for continuous duty at the fig
ures unless it's an
> industrial engine that pulls the load in more or less full time service I
would
> expect there to be problems getting rid of the heat at the least.but here
I
> am getting ready to fly behind a Corvair engine that was never designed a
s far
> as I know for continuous full power application. but I'd hope to be able
to
> throttle it back some when at altitude.if it is propped right
>From William Wynne's website=2C http://www.flycorvair.com:
> In the Corvair automobile=2C the engine produced 180 horsepower in the tu
rbo-charged form. All 1964-69 model engines utilize the same crankshaft=2C
rods=2C pistons=2C cases=2C etc. By flat rating the engine for 90hp conti
nuous=2C the engine is only stressed to 50% of its rating in the automobile
. No other auto engine conversion can make this claim. In the automobile
=2C the engine redlines at 5=2C500 rpm. My aircraft conversion produces 75
% power at half this rpm. These two facts form the cornerstone of the Corv
air engine=92s reliability as an aircraft power plant.
> The Corvair engine turns more than 3=2C000rpm at 60mph in the automobile.
They can run for hours at a time over 4=2C500rpm. Asking the engine to pro
duce 75% power=2C the brake mean effective pressure (BMEP) is lower at 2=2C
800rpm than at 2=2C000rpm.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio=2C TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 14
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Mark
That sounds nice, just remember tat with your left arm hanging out, you will
be in a left turn.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 8:55 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: high flight
>
> I have no idea what you are talking about, but I am soooo looking forward
> to flying in mine (so far just a pile of wing ribs). I can somewhat
> imagine looking down with my arm hanging over the side.
>
> Thanks for the story.
>
> --------
> Mark
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243334#243334
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: vid for a Sunday |
Great video, Walt.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: walt
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 5:23 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: vid for a Sunday
A guy flying the river to the tune of "Treetop flyer" by Stephen
Stills. (one of the guitar greats)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o40_MzuKIGA.
watch it if you want ,,,delete it if you don't.
Do Not Archive
walt evans
NX140DL
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper |
hello im build a piet in these moment and you take my attention can you telmy more
about ford fiesta engines for piet tanks jorge
--- On Sun, 5/10/09, Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Pieti Lowell <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper
<Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
My opinion would be, test stand proof.
Prop pitch to turn 2400 RPM
Remove all steel that is replaceable with Al.Pan, rocker cover etc.
I think that is a vacuum pump under the fuel pump, got to go.
Replace pulleys that are required with Al.
Compare this engine to a Ford Fiesta, on a Piet flown from the East coast to
Brodhead.
The weight can be trimmed to be Pietenpol worthy, but I think it may be a bit
shy on CIs. to haul 2 heavies on a warm day.
It will be a smooth runner, at 2200 RPM.
The spark advance must return to retard, or she will snap a finger or two, with
the Ign. system I see, when hand started.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243421#243421
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: high altitudes in a Piet |
Flying home from a fly-in one day, I decided to see how high I could
get. In 45 minutes, I was at 9,000'. This is with an A-75. I don't
know what my climb was, but it wasn't much, but I was still going up.
The limit probably would've been somewhere below 11,000'. Somewhere I
even have video of it. It felt like I was suspended from a string...I
couldn't perceive any motion. I would've kept going but I started
getting cold...it was in the 60s on the ground, and in the 30s up at
9,000'. I wasn't dressed for it.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: high altitudes in a Piet
In the test phases of 92GB I got bored and climbed up to 7500 ft
on a 90 degree july day. Man what a view! I was enjoying the cool air
untill a Northwest Airlines DC9 went about 1000ft or so over head going
into columbus 25 miles to the south, so I said the Hell with it get me
out of his way!! Haven't got that bored to climb that high since, I
used a cut off wheat field for thermal assistance for some extra lift.
Shad
Message 18
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Larry
I carefully read the article and very much agree with what the author
and you said. However, some airplanes are designed precisely for a
particular engine specified and all components carefully engineered.
You will not find barn door hinges and fence wire in a Sonex plan.
Times have changed and some materials have had improvements which can
lead to a far safer aircraft. I fully realize that was not in anyway
the focus of your comments and many of us remember what you were
referring to. The "FISHERMAN" being one memorable one. There have been
some wild ideas floated on this list over the years and I suspect that
some are just typing too fast after working on the project and having a
couple of beers. What about the idea of long range tanks for invading
Cuba from a couple of years ago, Hi Corky.
I wouldn't tell Lowell Frank he didn't really have a Pietenpol when he
had the Warner 145 on his plane, There were 2 Piets with O-200's at
Brodhead weighing 810 lb. My Rotec Piet weighs 810 lb. I called that
Piet a Deluxe Pietenpol, partly for humor and partly to note the changes
that I made to the design. When I started that project, I found a
number of people that didn't appreciate that I was doing something
different and when I was driving it in the trailer to Brodhead in '07 I
was worried that it wouldn't be appreciated.
Bernard Pietenpol tried a variety of engines and there are 4 different
fuselages in different plans available. With the different body types
of owners, some have had to make adjustments to fit. I don't think that
disqualifies the plane from being a Pietenpol.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lawrence Williams
To: Pietlist
Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet mods
Wow! Great article in the latest S.A. about the long range
ramifications of major modifications to proven designs. Read over Kerry
Fores' article on pg. 114.
Seems that the bottom line to the story is this:
As the builder you can modify it all you want but shouldn't
register your 800# fully accessorized, electrified and modernized
creation as a Pietenpol Air Camper. Spare us who closely followed the
plans the agony of having to put up with the possible fall-out of your
actions if they go awry.
It might also be a good idea to not register it as a Pietenpol
if it wasn't built from BHP's plans!!! (ie. there is no such thing as a
Pietenpol GN-1).
Larry W.......... (heading for cover)
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