---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 05/11/09: 28 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Re: how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? (walt) 2. 06:04 AM - rudder offset (Douwe Blumberg) 3. 06:04 AM - respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 4. 06:38 AM - piet mods (Lawrence Williams) 5. 06:38 AM - how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? (hvandervoo@aol.com) 6. 07:29 AM - Re: piet mods (Michael Perez) 7. 07:34 AM - Re: how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? (Jeff Boatright) 8. 07:39 AM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Jeff Boatright) 9. 08:19 AM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 10. 08:43 AM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Rick Holland) 11. 08:47 AM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Jeff Boatright) 12. 09:36 AM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (outofthebox50@yahoo.com) 13. 09:58 AM - Re: piet mods- How much is too much? (helspersew@aol.com) 14. 10:11 AM - Re: "Bernie" & High flying (Rob Stapleton) 15. 10:27 AM - Re: piet mods- How much is too much? (Michael Perez) 16. 11:06 AM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB) 17. 12:13 PM - Re: rudder offset (gcardinal@comcast.net) 18. 12:35 PM - Re: rudder offset (Dan Yocum) 19. 01:56 PM - Re: rudder offset (Catdesigns) 20. 02:34 PM - Cable Tension Question (Tim) 21. 04:09 PM - rudder offset (walt) 22. 04:13 PM - Re: Cable Tension Question (walt) 23. 06:05 PM - Re: Cable Tension, test pilot (shad bell) 24. 06:12 PM - air cooled (skellytown flyer) 25. 06:21 PM - Oshkosh 80th anniversary - housing (gcardinal) 26. 06:51 PM - I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper (Oscar Zuniga) 27. 07:39 PM - Re: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Clif Dawson) 28. 07:42 PM - Re: piet mods- How much is too much? (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:55 AM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? Some things, about this Corvair thing,are decieving, Just because an engine is redlined at 5500. If it's turning at 4500, sure doesn't mean it's producing 75% power. If it's on a test stand driving nothing, it will produce very little , and produce very little heat. NOW take the Corvair car, and climb one of those 10 mile long W. Virginia highway hills, with the throttle near the floor, throttle plate open, (big explosions going on inside.) That's another story. Will it last? How many hills before it breaks? Cars coast, airplanes are a constant drag. They say a full sized V8 vehicle, cruising down the highway only uses about 40HP to keep moving. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 10:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? Raymond wrote: >the only thing that makes me wonder about trying to get full rated horsepower and more >from a car engine is -I doubt they're built for continuous duty at the figures unless it's an > industrial engine that pulls the load in more or less full time service I would > expect there to be problems getting rid of the heat at the least.but here I > am getting ready to fly behind a Corvair engine that was never designed as far > as I know for continuous full power application. but I'd hope to be able to > throttle it back some when at altitude.if it is propped right >From William Wynne's website, http://www.flycorvair.com: > In the Corvair automobile, the engine produced 180 horsepower in the turbo-charged form. All 1964-69 model engines utilize the same crankshaft, rods, pistons, cases, etc. By flat rating the engine for 90hp continuous, the engine is only stressed to 50% of its rating in the automobile. No other auto engine conversion can make this claim. In the automobile, the engine redlines at 5,500 rpm. My aircraft conversion produces 75% power at half this rpm. These two facts form the cornerstone of the Corvair engine=92s reliability as an aircraft power plant. > The Corvair engine turns more than 3,000rpm at 60mph in the automobile. They can run for hours at a time over 4,500rpm. Asking the engine to produce 75% power, the brake mean effective pressure (BMEP) is lower at 2,800rpm than at 2,000rpm. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:29 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset I'm doing the final install of my rudder and wanted to query the group about rudder offset of the lack of it that they use. I'd appreciate you flyers input about your experiences with various offsets so I can decide how much to put in. Thanks, Douwe ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:04:51 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general Great line Don E. about heights and hanging Christmas lights on your gutters. I too have a difficult time on high ladders or on roofs. Go figure. Not a good backseat airline passenger either. (must be a control thing) There is something to be said for respect of others in today's day of lackluster manners and courtesies--thank you for the Bernard comments/observations. I'm forever annoyed at the new phrase "no problem" as it has (sadly in my mind) replaced the phrase "you're welcome". I know the youth of today have embraced saying dude and no problem but it just seems like everything mom taught us is all watered down today--end of editorial comment section. Mike C. PS- the comments on feeling 'lonely' and not moving when up high in a Pietenpol were right on the money. No thanks-- it takes too long to get there and it is no fun once there ! ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:08 AM PST US From: Lawrence Williams Subject: Pietenpol-List: piet mods I guess the question becomes; how many mods or additions can you put into s omeone elses design before it ceases to be that design. - I've typed a couple of more paragraphs and deleted them. I'll stop beating a dead horse now. - And......call him Bernie. Everyone else does. Besides, he's dead so it does n't really matter. - Larry W.- -=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:38:17 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? From: hvandervoo@aol.com And thaen there is this. ? 1932 Helicron In the late 1930s this one-of-a-kind Helicron was? placed in a barn and forgotten. More than six decades later this odd lost little gem was rediscovered, rebuilt, and reintroduced to the world. Althougthe manufacturer is unknown, it's believed that this car was? built in France 1932. Following the first World War it was not uncommon? for recently displaced airplane engineers to look towards the automobile industry for employment. As in this example, a few entrepreneurs developed propeller-powered cars with the notion that propeller power was an efficient means of moving a vehicle.On this car, when the wooden propeller is spinning at full speed and efficiently, this little 1,000-pound boat-tailed skiff can hit freeway speeds exceeding 75 mph. This is the only Helicron in existence, owned by Lane Motor Museum in Nashville , TN. Just like airplanes, it has no reverse! ?? ? ? ? ? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:29:05 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet mods I'm one of the guys who has done/will do more modifications on my Pietenpol Air Camper. SOME of my mods so far have been: wing tips, hinges, trailing edge, center section cut out and rudder horn design/location.- Other modi fications of my own to follow as well as some others that have been done in the past. Engine type still on the table. Is my plane a Pietenpol Air Camp er? If anyone were to ask, I would say: "Yes it is, with modifications." ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:29 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: how stressed is the Corvair on an Air Camper? A propeller-powered car with the prop up front: What could possibly go wrong? =-O ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:22 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general Mike, You're not alone with the "no problem" problem. Worse to me, for some reason, is "not a problem." When someone in the service industry, like a waitress or waiter, says "no problem" to me when they mean to say "you're welcome," I've taken to responding "I can't imagine how it could have been." Usually get a blank stare or frown. Sadly, I've also taken to screaming "you kids get off my lawn!" even though there are no kids on the lawn... DO NOT ARCHIVE. >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" > >Great line Don E. about heights and hanging Christmas lights on your >gutters. I too have a >difficult time on high ladders or on roofs. Go figure. Not a >good backseat airline passenger >either. (must be a control thing) > >There is something to be said for respect of others in today's day >of lackluster manners and >courtesies--thank you for the Bernard comments/observations. I'm >forever annoyed at the new >phrase "no problem" as it has (sadly in my mind) replaced the phrase >"you're welcome". I know >the youth of today have embraced saying dude and no problem but it >just seems like everything >mom taught us is all watered down today--end of editorial comment section. > >Mike C. > > >PS- the comments on feeling 'lonely' and not moving when up high in >a Pietenpol were right on >the money. No thanks-- it takes too long to get there and it is >no fun once there ! > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:55 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general The resoponse that something is "no problem" is really short hand for "For me to do this special thing for you is not a problem, because I was/will be glad to do it for you." I think the chip on your shoulder does make you a crabby old man. BTW It is common in several cultures: German "Es Macht Nicht" (It makes nothing) Spainish "Que Nada" (It's nothing) Italian "E' niente" (It's nothing) Southern/Texas "Happy to do it!" (No Problem) Aussie "No Worries!" (Don't worry about it!) Having said that I will become a horrible old man, I am already saying "I remember when that only cost _____!" Blue Skies with No Problems Steve D Do Not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general > > Mike, > > You're not alone with the "no problem" problem. Worse to me, for some > reason, is "not a problem." > > When someone in the service industry, like a waitress or waiter, says > "no problem" to me when they mean to say "you're welcome," I've taken > to responding "I can't imagine how it could have been." > > Usually get a blank stare or frown. > > Sadly, I've also taken to screaming "you kids get off my lawn!" even > though there are no kids on the lawn... > > DO NOT ARCHIVE. > > > >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" < > > > >Great line Don E. about heights and hanging Christmas lights on your > >gutters. I too have a > >difficult time on high ladders or on roofs. Go figure. Not a > >good backseat airline passenger > >either. (must be a control thing) > > > >There is something to be said for respect of others in today's day > >of lackluster manners and > >courtesies--thank you for the Bernard comments/observations. I'm > >forever annoyed at the new > >phrase "no problem" as it has (sadly in my mind) replaced the phrase > >"you're welcome". I know > >the youth of today have embraced saying dude and no problem but it > >just seems like everything > >mom taught us is all watered down today--end of editorial comment section. > > > >Mike C. > > > > > >PS- the comments on feeling 'lonely' and not moving when up high in > >a Pietenpol were right on > >the money. No thanks-- it takes too long to get there and it is > >no fun once there ! > > > > -- > --- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:43:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general From: Rick Holland I prefer the phrase "No Problemo", as Arnold would say it. Rick On Mon, May 11, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote: > steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> > > The resoponse that something is "no problem" is really short hand for "For > me to do this special thing for you is not a problem, because I was/will be > glad to do it for you." I think the chip on your shoulder does make you a > crabby old man. > > BTW It is common in several cultures: > German "Es Macht Nicht" (It makes nothing) > Spainish "Que Nada" (It's nothing) > Italian "E' niente" (It's nothing) > Southern/Texas "Happy to do it!" (No Problem) > Aussie "No Worries!" (Don't worry about it!) > > Having said that I will become a horrible old man, I am already saying "I > remember when that only cost _____!" > > Blue Skies with No Problems > > Steve D > > Do Not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jeff Boatright > Date: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:49 > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > > > Mike, > > > > You're not alone with the "no problem" problem. Worse to me, for some > > reason, is "not a problem." > > > > When someone in the service industry, like a waitress or waiter, says > > "no problem" to me when they mean to say "you're welcome," I've taken > > to responding "I can't imagine how it could have been." > > > > Usually get a blank stare or frown. > > > > Sadly, I've also taken to screaming "you kids get off my lawn!" even > > though there are no kids on the lawn... > > > > DO NOT ARCHIVE. > > > > > > >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" < > > > > > >Great line Don E. about heights and hanging Christmas lights on your > > >gutters. I too have a > > >difficult time on high ladders or on roofs. Go figure. Not a > > >good backseat airline passenger > > >either. (must be a control thing) > > > > > >There is something to be said for respect of others in today's day > > >of lackluster manners and > > >courtesies--thank you for the Bernard comments/observations. I'm > > >forever annoyed at the new > > >phrase "no problem" as it has (sadly in my mind) replaced the phrase > > >"you're welcome". I know > > >the youth of today have embraced saying dude and no problem but it > > >just seems like everything > > >mom taught us is all watered down today--end of editorial comment > section. > > > > > >Mike C. > > > > > > > > >PS- the comments on feeling 'lonely' and not moving when up high in > > >a Pietenpol were right on > > >the money. No thanks-- it takes too long to get there and it is > > >no fun once there ! > > > > > > > -- > > --- > > > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > > Emory University School of Medicine > > Editor-in-Chief > > Molecular Vision > > > > > > > > > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:01 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general I wasn't clear, sorry. If the person is doing something for me _that defines his or her job_, then by definition it's "not a problem" and saying so is superfluous and doesn't replace "you're welcome." You make a good point with the phrases you note, but they are not the equivalent because in every instance they are the accepted response to the customer saying "Thank you." Conversely, "not a problem" is most often a millenial's response to a customer request. BTW, you forgot "de rien" (French for "it's nothing"). HA! I must be MUCH older than you! I'm much, much crabbier! (Could it be that I haven't flown the Piet in 2+ weeks?!!??!) Do Not archive Do Not archive >NGB" >) >The resoponse that something is "no problem" is really short hand >for "For me to do this special thing for you is not a problem, >because I was/will be glad to do it for you." I think the chip on >your shoulder does make you a crabby old man. > >BTW It is common in several cultures: >German "Es Macht Nicht" (It makes nothing) >Spainish "Que Nada" (It's nothing) >Italian "E' niente" (It's nothing) >Southern/Texas "Happy to do it!" (No Problem) >Aussie "No Worries!" (Don't worry about it!) > >Having said that I will become a horrible old man, I am already >saying "I remember when that only cost _____!" > >Blue Skies with No Problems > >Steve D > >Do Not archive > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Jeff Boatright >Date: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:49 >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > >> >> Mike, >> >> You're not alone with the "no problem" problem. Worse to me, for some >> reason, is "not a problem." >> >> When someone in the service industry, like a waitress or waiter, says >> "no problem" to me when they mean to say "you're welcome," I've taken >> to responding "I can't imagine how it could have been." >> >> Usually get a blank stare or frown. >> >> Sadly, I've also taken to screaming "you kids get off my lawn!" even >> though there are no kids on the lawn... >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE. >> >> >> >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" < >> > >> >Great line Don E. about heights and hanging Christmas lights on your >> >gutters. I too have a >> >difficult time on high ladders or on roofs. Go figure. Not a >> >good backseat airline passenger >> >either. (must be a control thing) >> > >> >There is something to be said for respect of others in today's day >> >of lackluster manners and >> >courtesies--thank you for the Bernard comments/observations. I'm >> >forever annoyed at the new >> >phrase "no problem" as it has (sadly in my mind) replaced the phrase >> >"you're welcome". I know >> >the youth of today have embraced saying dude and no problem but it >> >just seems like everything >> >mom taught us is all watered down today--end of editorial comment section. >> > >> >Mike C. >> > >> > >> >PS- the comments on feeling 'lonely' and not moving when up high in >> >a Pietenpol were right on >> >the money. No thanks-- it takes too long to get there and it is >> >no fun once there ! >> > >> >> -- >> --- >> >> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. >> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology >> Emory University School of Medicine >> Editor-in-Chief >> Molecular Vision >> >> >> >> > -- --- Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Ophthalmology Emory University School of Medicine Editor-in-Chief Molecular Vision ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com SSBzcGVudCBzb21lIHRpbWUgaW4gSmFtYWljYSBhbmQgcmVhbGx5IGxpa2UsICJubyB3b3JyaWVz IG1hYW4hIg0KDQoNCkplcmVteSBpbiBEYWxsYXMNCg0KRG8gbm90IGFyY2hpdmUNClNlbnQgdmlh IEJsYWNrQmVycnkgZnJvbSBULU1vYmlsZQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0K RnJvbTogUmljayBIb2xsYW5kIDxhdDcwMDBmdEBnbWFpbC5jb20+DQoNCkRhdGU6IE1vbiwgMTEg TWF5IDIwMDkgMDk6MzY6NTMgDQpUbzogPHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20+DQpT dWJqZWN0OiBSZTogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IHJlc3BlY3QsIHN0YXlpbmcgbG93LCBhbmQgcmFt YmxpbmdzIGluIGdlbmVyYWwNCg0KDQpJIHByZWZlciB0aGUgcGhyYXNlICJObyBQcm9ibGVtbyIs IGFzIEFybm9sZCB3b3VsZCBzYXkgaXQuDQoNClJpY2sNCg0KT24gTW9uLCBNYXkgMTEsIDIwMDkg 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ZmVzc29yIG9mIE9waHRoYWxtb2xvZ3kNCj4gPiBFbW9yeSBVbml2ZXJzaXR5IFNjaG9vbCBvZiBN ZWRpY2luZQ0KPiA+IEVkaXRvci1pbi1DaGllZg0KPiA+IE1vbGVjdWxhciBWaXNpb24NCj4gPg0K PiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KPg0KDQoNCi0tIA0KUmljayBIb2xsYW5kDQpDYXN0 bGUgUm9jaywgQ29sb3JhZG8NCg0K ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet mods- How much is too much? From: helspersew@aol.com Hello all, At the risk of being pillared; Those that do too many mods, should have their right to call their airplane a "Pietenpol" Air Camper, removed. If they want to call it an "aircamper" (note lower case) that is fine but we all need to draw the line somewhere, and this is the place. So officially, anyone who incorporates?too many?changes (past what I have done) will going forward be placed in this dubious category. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL M.P. wrote: I'm one of the guys who has done/will do more modifications on my Pietenpol Air Camper. SOME of my mods so far have been: wing tips, hinges, trailing edge, center section cut out and rudder horn design/location.? Other modifications of my own to follow as well as some others that have been done in the past. Engine type still on the table. Is my plane a Pietenpol Air Camper? If anyone were to ask, I would say: "Yes it is, with modifications." ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:15 AM PST US From: "Rob Stapleton" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying Funny you should mention the diet, but that is exactly what I am thinking although I have the Corvair engine and am looking for an O-290! I am 6'-5" and weigh 250 lbs. I am trying to drop to 205 lbs. so I can carry paxs! Rob Rob Stapleton, Photojournalist Anchorage, AK (907) 230-9425 KL2AN Skype:rob.stapleton.jr -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 3:29 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying Rob, The FAA's definition of service ceiling is the altitude where, at gross weight and max rate of climb, the rate of climb produced is 100 feet per minute. Based on that, my Pietenpol's (745 lb empty weight, 65 hp Continental) service ceiling is just above sea level. At my listed gross weight of 1245 lbs (full fuel, 2 200 lb souls and 10 lbs of baggage), on a hot day I get right at 100 feet per minute climb. A cool day makes a big difference, as does ANY lightening of the airframe and/or pilot and passenger. On a cooler day with me by myself, half tank of fuel and no baggage, I can zoom right up there at close to 500 fpm. Think of this as the best of all reasons to go on a diet. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Stapleton Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 6:46 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying For those of you that have been responding to this just what is the service ceiling on a Piet with a Model A, Corvair etc. engines? Rob -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawrence Williams Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 4:24 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: "Bernie" & High flying Mike C. Check out articles in the Grant McLaren-era BPANewsletters, Jim Vandervoort, Ed Sampson and other old-timers about how Mr. Pietenpol preferred to be addressed. If it isn't a big deal to you don't sweat it, the earth isn't going to end if you say "Bernie" but I was hoping to instill a bit of fast-disappearing respect for someone who I consider a pioneer to aviation history. Oscar,et al; I had my Piet up to 5,000agl (5350 msl) last fall on a cool day (wouldn't go any higher!!) and the feeling I had could only be described as "eerie and lonely". I also noticed that at idle for the sledride down, the controls felt A LOT different than they normally do. I think it must have been due to the lack of torque from the "A" and the resulting off-setting control input that made it feel a little sloppy. Anyway, I got it up there and set the central Arkansas record for altitude in Lonoke County for a Ford powered parasol configured tail-dragger, so I don't have to do that ever again! I think 2,000' will be my limit and 500-1,000 is still going to be my preferred block. Larry W. ecg, xcmr, epp - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - --> http://forums.matronics.com - List Contribution Web Site - Thank you for your generous support! -Matt Dralle, List Admin. --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:22 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet mods- How much is too much? I suppose I could call mine a "Pietenperez."- Or Perezenpol." ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:15 AM PST US From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general Jeff, you don't seem to understand the pierced and tattooed mindset. "For me to do my job for you is very special and you should appreciate that I think it is 'not a problem'. Otherwise I would ignore you and continue to Sext my girl/boyfriend." I have gotten better about trying to look past the piercings and have found that some of these kids are pretty good kids. "No Problem" Steve D. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general > > I wasn't clear, sorry. If the person is doing something for me _that > defines his or her job_, then by definition it's "not a problem" and > saying so is superfluous and doesn't replace "you're welcome." You > make a good point with the phrases you note, but they are not the > equivalent because in every instance they are the accepted response > to the customer saying "Thank you." Conversely, "not a problem" is > most often a millenial's response to a customer request. > > BTW, you forgot "de rien" (French for "it's nothing"). > > HA! I must be MUCH older than you! I'm much, much crabbier! (Could it > be that I haven't flown the Piet in 2+ weeks?!!??!) > > Do Not archive > Do Not archive > > > >NGB" < > >) > > > >The resoponse that something is "no problem" is really short hand > >for "For me to do this special thing for you is not a problem, > >because I was/will be glad to do it for you." I think the chip on > >your shoulder does make you a crabby old man. < > > > >BTW It is common in several cultures: > >German "Es Macht Nicht" (It makes nothing) > >Spainish "Que Nada" (It's nothing) > >Italian "E' niente" (It's nothing) > >Southern/Texas "Happy to do it!" (No Problem) > >Aussie "No Worries!" (Don't worry about it!) > > > >Having said that I will become a horrible old man, I am already > >saying "I remember when that only cost _____!" > > > >Blue Skies with No Problems > > > >Steve D > > > >Do Not archive > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: Jeff Boatright < > >Date: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:49 > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > > >> Mike, > >> > >> You're not alone with the "no problem" problem. Worse to me, for some > >> reason, is "not a problem." > >> > >> When someone in the service industry, like a waitress or waiter, says > >> "no problem" to me when they mean to say "you're welcome," I've taken > >> to responding "I can't imagine how it could have been." > >> > >> Usually get a blank stare or frown. > >> > >> Sadly, I've also taken to screaming "you kids get off my lawn!" even > >> though there are no kids on the lawn... > >> > >> DO NOT ARCHIVE. > >> > >> > >> >(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <>> > > >> >Great line Don E. about heights and hanging Christmas lights on your > >> >gutters. I too have a > >> >difficult time on high ladders or on roofs. Go figure. Not a > >> >good backseat airline passenger > >> >either. (must be a control thing) > >> > > >> >There is something to be said for respect of others in today's day > >> >of lackluster manners and > >> >courtesies--thank you for the Bernard comments/observations. I'm > >> >forever annoyed at the new > >> >phrase "no problem" as it has (sadly in my mind) replaced the phrase > >> >"you're welcome". I know > >> >the youth of today have embraced saying dude and no problem but it > >> >just seems like everything > >> >mom taught us is all watered down today--end of editorial comment section. > >> > > >> >Mike C. > >> > > >> > > >> >PS- the comments on feeling 'lonely' and not moving when up high in > >> >a Pietenpol were right on > >> >the money. No thanks-- it takes too long to get there and it is > >> >no fun once there ! > >> > > >> > >> -- > >> --- > >> > >> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > >> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > >> Emory University School of Medicine > >> Editor-in-Chief > >> Molecular Vision > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > --- > > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D. > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology > Emory University School of Medicine > Editor-in-Chief > Molecular Vision > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:13:17 PM PST US From: gcardinal@comcast.net Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset More importantly than the amount of vertical fin offset is the ability to m ake it adjustable. You won't know how much you'll need until after you've f lown it and the amount could be significant. NX18235 started out with zero offset per the plans. Currently it is=C2-of fset a little more than 1" and could use more. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 8:04:56 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset link.net> I'm doing the final install of my rudder and wanted to query the group abou t rudder offset of the lack of it that they use. I'd appreciate you flyers input about your experiences with various offsets so I can decide how much to put in. Thanks, Douwe =========== =========== MS - =========== e - =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2--Matt Dralle, List Admin. =========== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:42 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset Hi Douwe, I'm also interested in the answer to this question, so I will defer to the experts on this issue. That said, back in the dark, dim recesses of my memory I recalled seeing a picture of an offset vertical stabilizer buried somewhere in the westcoastpiet.com pages - luckily, it didn't take me long to find it: http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Brown%20Aero/P1010003.JPG (referring page is this: http://westcoastpiet.com/new_page_6.htm) Note that the offset is to the *right* side of the aircraft because this is on a Corvair powered Pietenpol and they spin the "wrong" way. Using a standard aircraft engine, the vert. stab. would be offset to the *left* side of the aircraft. Cheers, Dan Douwe Blumberg wrote: > > I'm doing the final install of my rudder and wanted to query the group about > rudder offset of the lack of it that they use. > > I'd appreciate you flyers input about your experiences with various offsets > so I can decide how much to put in. > > Thanks, > > Douwe > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:56:15 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: rudder offset From: "Catdesigns" I like this one because it is adjustable. http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1054.JPG http://westcoastpiet.com/images/Walt%20Bowe/IMG_1055.JPG Chris -------- Chris Tracy Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243596#243596 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:34:51 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension Question From: "Tim" Gentlemen, I finally found an individual who is willing to give me some dual time in the Piet. I purchased several years ago. He spent about 3 hours today going over every part of the plane. He had a 3 or 4 page list of items to check out before hed make a test flight. He said the plane was very well made, and certainly flyable, but there were several items that hed like to see addressed to make it as perfect as possible. I have quite a few questions but Ill start of will just one. Question; the 8 cables that support and align the rudder and elevator all differ in tension, some more than others. I know that tight is tight and too tight is snap. Im only guessing but maybe they should just be snug. But what is snug? Is there some sort of homemade device that you can make to ensure equal tension on all the cables? Thanks in advance. Tim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243599#243599 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:09:08 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset I don't agree with rudder offset. I built to the plans. and rigged like a nut to get all right. When I climb, need right rudder to correct the "P" factor. Cruise is fine, no holding of rudder. Throttle back, maybe some left rudder. Ain't life Grand. PS rig it right , and it will be good. :^) walt evans NX140DL ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:58 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension Question That's a funny thing with the Piet. When the controls go thru their Arc, they go thru a "more tension, less tension" thing. You don't feel it when flying at all. We all have to deal with this 1929 thing. Have him take it up and around by himself, and he'll see it feels fine. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 5:34 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension Question > > Gentlemen, I finally found an individual who is willing to give me some > dual time in the Piet. I purchased several years ago. He spent about 3 > hours today going over every part of the plane. He had a 3 or 4 page list > of items to check out before he?Td make a test flight. He said the plane > was very well made, and certainly flyable, but there were several items > that he?Td like to see addressed to make it as perfect as possible. > I have quite a few questions but I?Tll start of will just one. > Question; the 8 cables that support and align the rudder and elevator all > differ in tension, some more than others. I know that tight is tight and > too tight is snap. I?Tm only guessing but maybe they should just be > snug. But what is snug? Is there some sort of homemade device that you > can make to ensure equal tension on all the cables? > Thanks in advance. > Tim > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243599#243599 > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:33 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Cable Tension, test pilot Just use your ear and a twang on the wires.- I am guessing you are talkin g about the tail brace wires.- Just tight enough to keep the tail streigh t and so it doesnt flex up and down.- If one side (top bot, left or right ) is tighter than the other the-horizontal stab-will not be level from side to side when looking down the length of it.- As for the control cabl e slack thing I have got the, "thats no good!, look at that the cables rub on the top of the stab right there, you should redesighn the control horns. ......bla bla bla bla".- If he feels comfortable with the plane, and you feel comfortable letting him fly it go ahead, but if you have a voice insid e telling you no, or mayby no, then NO should be your answer.- Don't risk your airplane or his life if he is not 100% sure he wants to fly it. - Sorry I got a little off subject, but I would hate for a nice piet or pilot -to get banged up on a 1st flight. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:12:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: air cooled From: "skellytown flyer" the posts on the engines were as usual very informative-but I got a kick reading the last statement about what could go wrong with a propeller powered car - on the Helicron pictures.the first thing that came to mind was all the road killed Skunks I see along the road. man what a thrill!! Raymond. do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243631#243631 ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:21:35 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oshkosh 80th anniversary - housing 80th anniversary update - I received word that there is some housing available close by OSH for Pietenpolers who don't want to sleep in a tent on the field. One house is 3 blocks from Wittman field, the lower level will be available. No beds are in the lower level but bathroom / shower, air conditioning, etc is all there. The yard of this house is also available for tents. A camper in the driveway of this house may also be available. A complete house in Neenah, 20 minutes north of OSH is also available. Contact me off-list if you are interested and I can get you in touch with the owners. Greg Cardinal gcardinal@comcast.net ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:39 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper Jorge wrote- > hello im build a piet in these moment and you take my attention can you t elmy more > about ford fiesta engines for piet tanks jorge >From what I can find out about the engine=2C it is a 1.6 liter (1600cc) eng ine developing less than 60 HP at 5000 RPM but I am not at all sure of thos e numbers. If that is the case=2C then it is going to need a reduction dri ve and I believe the Piet that has flown with a Fiesta engine had a drive o n it. As mentioned in other posts in the archives=2C the Fiesta "Valencia" or Kent engine was used extensively in many automobiles and many countries around the world so there are plenty of them out there. I have no idea wh at is involved in the conversion but my guess is that there are a lot bette r candidate engines available here in the U.S.... but Jorge is not in the U .S. so he may have better access to one of these engines than we do these d ays. I'm surprised there are no Piets flying behind the Fiat Panda engine. Late r models were about 50 HP and there are millions of those cars out there (e verywhere but the U.S.). Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:39:57 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general Your not crabby till you start walking sideways. Clif I was always taught to respect my elders, But it keeps getting harder to find one. > HA! I must be MUCH older than you! I'm much, much crabbier! ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:13 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: piet mods- How much is too much? "Past what I have done"????? Clif "I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work." Thomas Edison Hello all, too many changes (past what I have done) will going forward be placed in this dubious category. Dan Helsper ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.