---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 05/12/09: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:08 AM - Walt-- rudder offset (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 2. 05:46 AM - Re: piet mods- How much is too much? (rameses32) 3. 05:54 AM - Re: Pfeifer Sport plans (Will42) 4. 06:15 AM - respect, staying low, and ramblings in general (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 06:53 AM - Re: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper (Owen Davies) 6. 07:42 AM - Re: rudder offset (Lagowski Morrow) 7. 07:46 AM - Re: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans (Darrel Jones) 8. 09:29 AM - Fiesta (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 9. 09:53 AM - Re: Pfeifer Sport plans (Will42) 10. 10:12 AM - Re: Fiesta (Owen Davies) 11. 10:32 AM - Re: Walt-- rudder offset (Dan Yocum) 12. 12:42 PM - rudder offset (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 12:46 PM - Piet Ride? (TriScout) 14. 12:47 PM - Summer blows! (Michael Perez) 15. 01:14 PM - ANY BUILDERS NEAR PENSACOLA? (Jerry Dotson) 16. 01:14 PM - Re: Summer blows! (Jack Phillips) 17. 01:20 PM - Re: Piet Ride? (Jack Phillips) 18. 01:20 PM - Re: Walt-- rudder offset (walt) 19. 01:38 PM - Re: Piet Ride? (Steve Ruse) 20. 01:38 PM - Re: Summer blows! (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 21. 01:39 PM - Re: Walt-- rudder offset (walt) 22. 02:03 PM - Re: Fiesta (walt) 23. 02:20 PM - Re: Summer blows! (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 24. 02:30 PM - Re: Fiesta (Bill Church) 25. 02:52 PM - Change to home email (Jack T. Textor) 26. 03:10 PM - latest OSH email from EAA (Oscar Zuniga) 27. 03:10 PM - Re: ANY BUILDERS NEAR PENSACOLA? (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 28. 03:20 PM - Compared Weight to Model A engine (Jamie Stevens) 29. 04:04 PM - Re: Compared Weight to Model A engine (rameses32) 30. 06:44 PM - Re: Fiesta (walt) 31. 07:04 PM - Re: Walt-- rudder offset (Dan Yocum) 32. 08:21 PM - Re: latest OSH email from EAA (Dick N.) 33. 10:53 PM - Re: Walt-- rudder offset (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:00 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset I totally agree with Walt Evans-there is no need for rudder offset if you r ig your plane right and build in offset when you make your motor mount. If you go thru the Tony Bingelis "flight test" notes of how to test your homebuilt he gives a step-by-step sequence of how rig your plane from how it flies with regard to ball offset, drift, etc. What you may be correcting for with rudder could very well be an error in the rigging of your wings----or twist in your horizontal stabilizer that you didn't true u p quite perfectly. After all was said and done I added a small aluminum trim tab on my rudder to get hands-off cruise for folding charts and fumbling with things in the cockpit during x-country flights but the tab only has the slightest of offset. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:46:09 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: piet mods- How much is too much? From: "rameses32" Surly this was meant to be a funny, correct? I mean I really like the part (past what I have done), and then calling everybody that has changed anything from the plans "Dubious". Pietenpol himself never built two aircraft the same from what I have seen, he was constantly updating and improving. I'm not sure he ever put a door in, or built a three piece wing, used brakes? Stearable tail wheel? Engine Choice? Material, did he ever build a steel tube fuselage, 4130, 1020? Fuel tank choice, deeper fuselage, wider fuselage, jury struts? Built up spars? The list is endless, and the man himself said "If you know your stuff, you may be able to make improvements in this ship" He was talking about the Sky Scout, but he didn't say, if you change it, don't call it a Pietenpol. Anyway, it made me laugh, now, back to the drawing board, I bet if I add three feet to each wing and 6" to the chord, I can stuff that V-10 out of my Viper into my Pietenpol and improve the............... Charley > At the risk of being pillared; Those that do too many mods, should have their right to call their airplane a "Pietenpol" Air Camper, removed. If they want to call it an "aircamper" (note lower case) that is fine but we all need to draw the line somewhere, and this is the place. So officially, anyone who incorporates too many changes (past what I have done) will going forward be placed in this dubious category. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove, IL > > Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243693#243693 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:54:45 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans From: "Will42" [ Charlie, [/quote] You can pay me directly through Pay Pal using this email address. Reply with your address and I'll send a copy then let you know what the mailing cost is. Darrel[/quote] Darrel; I too would like to have the Pfeifer CD. I can Pay-pal if I had an e-mail address or just send $5. if I had a street address. Thanks so much...........Will42 will@cctc.net Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243694#243694 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:15:19 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: respect, staying low, and ramblings in general I have found the cure for crabbiness. I pull the prop through six blades w ith fuel on=2C throttle back=2C and ignition off. Then I switch on the ign ition and spin the prop on the 65 and go fly. So far it has worked every t ime I've tried it. I get a bonus when I make a good landing... besides not being crabby=2C I actually walk away from the hangar whistling and pleased with myself=2C and even though I will turn 58 in another two months=2C whe n I fly my airplane I feel like I'm 16 or 18 and can do anything. As for respect=2C the airplane and I have gotten nothing but respect from e very person=2C young or old=2C who has seen us out flying or on the ramp. Well=2C I guess I should back up and say that I didn't get respect when I b ounced a landing=2C but that's OK. Or "no problem" =3Bo) Keep building these fine old airplanes=2C and fly 'em if you've got 'em. I hate it when I hear somebody say that they know of an old Piet that is sit ting dusty in a hangar somewhere. They are a joy to fly and seem to spread joy and interest wherever they go. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:53:29 AM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: I am thinking about using this engine in an Aircamper Oscar Zuniga wrote: > From what I can find out about the engine, it is a 1.6 liter (1600cc) > engine developing less than 60 HP at 5000 RPM but I am not at all sure > of those numbers. If that is the case, then it is going to need a > reduction drive and I believe the Piet that has flown with a Fiesta > engine had a drive on it. I saw one Piet with a Fiesta engine, a really lovely plane with the sheet metal engine-turned and gold anodized. I don't remember seeing a redrive, but very vaguely recall talking about it. (This was a long time ago.) In any case, the prop was normal sized, not a little stick like you'd see with a VW powerplant, so there pretty well has to have been a reduction of some sort. Belt, if my memory is working. Owen ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:42:39 AM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset I put in no offset and found I needed a bit of right rudder all the time. Have put in a trim tab which will get checked out today--Jim lagowski, NX221PT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douwe Blumberg" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset > > > I'm doing the final install of my rudder and wanted to query the group > about > rudder offset of the lack of it that they use. > > I'd appreciate you flyers input about your experiences with various > offsets > so I can decide how much to put in. > > Thanks, > > Douwe > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 07:02:00 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:15 AM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans Will42 wrote: > > [ > > > > Charlie, > [/quote] > > You can pay me directly through Pay Pal using this email address. Reply > with your address and I'll send a copy then let you know what the > mailing cost is. > > Darrel[/quote] > > Darrel; I too would like to have the Pfeifer CD. I can Pay-pal if I had an e-mail address or just send $5. if I had a street address. Thanks so much...........Will42 will@cctc.net > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243694#243694 > > > Reply with your mailing address and I'll get a cd in the mail. Darrel ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:29:25 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta There is a gent in my video by the name of Jim Malley who I show taking off at Brodhead with a Pietenpol that is Fiesta powered. As I recall it had the gold/turned cowling burnishing that you're talking about Owen. It sounded like it was going to come apart on takeoff the rpm's were so high but he got off the ground....eventually. As I recall the plane wasn't a performer but if you're out there Jim, please correct me. Auto engines just make me uncomfortable when used in an airplane but...they are reasonable in cost, but the price some seem to pay in the long run with headaches, heartaches, and troubles down the road just don't seem worth the savings. Still I have to say I LOVE hearing the Model A powered Piets flying overhead at Brodhead--there is something about that. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:53:18 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Pfeifer Sport plans From: "Will42" Reply with your mailing address and I'll get a cd in the mail. [/quote] Darrel My mailing address is R W Howard 916 E Reynosa De Leon TX 76444 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243737#243737 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:59 AM PST US From: Owen Davies Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > There is a gent in my video by the name of Jim Malley who I show taking off at > Brodhead with a Pietenpol that is Fiesta powered. As I recall it had the gold/turned > cowling burnishing that you're talking about Owen. > That was the name! Can't recall where I saw him. Somewhere in New Jersey, I think. Never saw it fly. > Still I have to say I LOVE > hearing the Model A powered Piets flying overhead at Brodhead--there is something about that. You and me both! I don't plan to use one, and that decision pains me every time I think of the sound. Owen ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:32:04 AM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset Mike, Walt, I'd like some more of your thoughts on this subject. Take a look at the following picture (try to ignore the Grand Canyon in the background): http://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/PietenpolTrip#5254282417937096754 What could be the cause, and the potential remedy, of the need to apply continual right rudder on this plane in cruise flight? Can this be fixed on a completed and flying Pietenpol? Thanks, in advance, Dan PS. This picture is of the plane I'm planning to buy so I have a vested interested in the proposed solution. Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: > I totally agree with Walt Evansthere is no need for rudder offset if > you rig your plane right and build in > > offset when you make your motor mount. If you go thru the Tony > Bingelis flight test notes of how to test > > your homebuilt he gives a step-by-step sequence of how rig your plane > from how it flies with regard to ball > > offset, drift, etc. What you may be correcting for with rudder could > very well be an error in the rigging of > > your wings----or twist in your horizontal stabilizer that you didnt > true up quite perfectly. > > > > After all was said and done I added a small aluminum trim tab on my > rudder to get hands-off cruise for folding > > charts and fumbling with things in the cockpit during x-country flights > but the tab only has the slightest of offset. > > > > Mike C. > > > > * > > > * -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:42:28 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder offset 41CC has a fixed (bendable) metal trim tab on the rudder=2C which sounds li ke a pretty common thing. See pic at http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/repairs/PC240001.JPG I cannot fly 41CC with feet flat on the floor in any operating regime but i t also does not seem to require constant rudder bar pressure to keep the ba ll centered in cruise flight=2C so I guess the trim tab works fine. The ru dder just needs the normal pressure to keep the nose straight and the ball caged on full-power roll and climb=2C which I do not even think about but j ust do automatically. I'm not sure how Corky and Edwin computed the required size and deflection for the rudder trim tab on 41CC but it may have something to do with the sq uare of the mean rotational force produced by the outer 1/3 of the propelle r slipstream divided by the logarithmic average of the left and right tire pressures (at sea level and standard temp./press.=2C of course)=2C correcte d for the pilot's IQ and marital status. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:46:38 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Ride? From: "TriScout" p.s. Just recently received my plans, rib jig ready, UPS Ground enroute w/wood. . Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243764#243764 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 12:47:29 PM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Summer blows! Believe it or not, I am of the rare breed that prefers cold, snowy weather over any other kind. The Pietenpol has even reinforced my winter liking because I had all kinds of time to work on it. Now it is Spring, close to Summer here in Ohio. I am now tasked with washing cars, cleaning windows, painting, staining and fixing things around the house that have been neglected. Cutting grass, pulling weeds, planting a garden... I now have less time to build and it bothers me to no end! Oh and with the days getting longer, I can't come in because it is "too dark out to do anything." I want Winter so I can get back to my building my plane and producing DVDs! WHHAAAA! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:25 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: ANY BUILDERS NEAR PENSACOLA? From: "Jerry Dotson" I am wanting to start a Pietenpol soon. Any builders or owners near Pensacola, FL?? I would buy a project if near me and all spruce and MIL-SPEC plywood. I am going with Continental power. Probably an O-200. What about 3 piece wing versus 1 piece? I have room to build either way. Jerry Dotson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243767#243767 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:14:26 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Summer blows! Finish your airplane and you'll have a whole new reason to enjoy summer. And a new reason to hate winter. Jack Phillips NX899JP Just took the RV-4 up for a quick flight - not the same as a Pietenpol, but low and fast has its appeal too. Similar to that "Treetop Flyer" video that someone (was it Walt?) put on the list last week (that was an RV-4 as well). Just blasted over my neighbor's house while she was out washing her car - 200' and 200 mph indicated. FUN! _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:45 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Summer blows! Believe it or not, I am of the rare breed that prefers cold, snowy weather over any other kind. The Pietenpol has even reinforced my winter liking because I had all kinds of time to work on it. Now it is Spring, close to Summer here in Ohio. I am now tasked with washing cars, cleaning windows, painting, staining and fixing things around the house that have been neglected. Cutting grass, pulling weeds, planting a garden... I now have less time to build and it bothers me to no end! Oh and with the days getting longer, I can't come in because it is "too dark out to do anything." I want Winter so I can get back to my building my plane and producing DVDs! WHHAAAA! ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:07 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Piet Ride? Larry, IF you make it to Brodhead, and IF I fly my Pietenpol there, I'll be happy to give you a ride. You sound like the right size passenger. Of course, I prefer passengers that are female, 5'7", 125 lbs, and 18 to 20 years old. The prettier the better. You're a freight dog, aren't you? Do you ever fly into RDU? How about ROA? My Piet is now based at Smith Mountain Lake, VA (W91) but I could easily fly it to Roanoke (ROA) or Lynchburg (LYH) if you fly into either of those. Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TriScout Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 3:46 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet Ride? there wouldn't mind company next time you crack out the ol' Piet, I'd be glad to spring for the gas/oil, b-fast sometime for a ride. Feel free to "PM" me, as they say. I'm 5'10" weighing in at 165#. I'm E. side of dallas. (Zip 75043.. google map). Just a thought ..for builder motivational reasons. p.s. Just recently received my plans, rib jig ready, UPS Ground enroute w/wood. . Larry Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243764#243764 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:20:50 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset Dan, Things that come to mind are....... Engine mount not made to print. This can be corrected by adding large flat "fender" type washers between where the rubber mount meets the mount steel "flange". But if you need alot , you may have to slightly modify the cown in front, where the prop shaft comes thru. I remember the engine has to point down slightly, but forget if there's a side offset. If you're buying this plane, and don't have prints, I can get the mount infro to you Uneven "angle of attack" of both wings, including equal Wash-in and Wash-out. Fairly easy to find. Put the plane on some Sawhorses, like you were going to initially rig it. Perfectly level the fuse side to side. Shim the back horse so that the rear center wing struts and front struts are level front to back. This means the fuse will be angled down (as per print). With the wing root and center section now level in both directions. (use the bottom of the wing, its easier) Go to the wing tips, and see what you have. should be slightly down for wash-in/out, But they must be EQUAL. If not, that's a problem. If made to the original strut type the end bracket which goes inside the strut end and is bolted to the wing brackets, would probably have to remade or the holes on the flat part would have to be filled with weld and redrilled. Not the end of the world. If so, the cables, if done to plans, would probably have plenty of adjustment left in the turnbuckles. This is probably the problem. If it's flown, any of the two problems would be confirmed by looking at the ball slip tube, if it has one. To correct , and fly straight with the rudder, it would show up there My Mentor always preached the importance of rigging a plane perfectly before building struts and covering. I've seen planes that looked great, but didn't fly right. Worst I've seen (not a Piet) you could stand 50 in front of it and see the wings were not at the same angle. Guess the builder didn't think it was that important. When I fly hands off, I can peek my fingertips from behind the windsheild and make a gentle left or right turn. One side of the plane has to the exact mirror image of the other walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:28 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset > > Mike, Walt, > > I'd like some more of your thoughts on this subject. Take a look at the > following picture (try to ignore the Grand Canyon in the background): > > http://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/PietenpolTrip#5254282417937096754 > > What could be the cause, and the potential remedy, of the need to apply > continual right rudder on this plane in cruise flight? Can this be fixed > on a completed and flying Pietenpol? > > Thanks, in advance, > Dan > > PS. This picture is of the plane I'm planning to buy so I have a vested > interested in the proposed solution. > > > Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: >> I totally agree with Walt Evansthere is no need for rudder offset if you >> rig your plane right and build in >> >> offset when you make your motor mount. If you go thru the Tony >> Bingelis flight test notes of how to test >> >> your homebuilt he gives a step-by-step sequence of how rig your plane >> from how it flies with regard to ball >> >> offset, drift, etc. What you may be correcting for with rudder could >> very well be an error in the rigging of >> >> your wings----or twist in your horizontal stabilizer that you didnt true >> up quite perfectly. >> >> After all was said and done I added a small aluminum trim tab on my >> rudder to get hands-off cruise for folding >> >> charts and fumbling with things in the cockpit during x-country flights >> but the tab only has the slightest of offset. >> >> Mike C. >> >> * >> >> >> * > > -- > Dan Yocum > Fermilab 630.840.6509 > yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov > Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:15 PM PST US From: Steve Ruse Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Piet Ride? Larry, I'm just up the road in Norman, OK. I used to be in the DFW area...kept my Air Camper at Meacham for a few years. We're having a fly-in up here this weekend, you are welcome to come up then or anytime if you'd like. I'll gladly give you a ride if the weather is right, and if I have my front-seat re-installed. It is out for some work right now, but I hope to have it in this week. You might even be able to hitch a ride up here with one of the pilots from this site: http://www.dfwpilots.com/board/index.php?showtopic=5319 More information on the fly-in this Saturday(anyone is welcome to come): http://www.wotelectronics.com/flyin/ Steve Ruse Norman, OK Quoting TriScout : > > To: Anyone w/in a couple hrs of Dallas/Ft Worth w/ a Piet. If anyone > out there wouldn't mind company next time you crack out the ol' > Piet, I'd be glad to spring for the gas/oil, b-fast sometime for a > ride. Feel free to "PM" me, as they say. I'm 5'10" weighing in at > 165#. I'm E. side of dallas. (Zip 75043.. google map). Just a > thought ..for builder motivational reasons. > > p.s. Just recently received my plans, rib jig ready, UPS Ground > enroute w/wood. . Larry > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243764#243764 > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:15 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Summer blows! Mike, Once you're flying you'll start enjoying summer much more ! (and you'll have all winter to take care of chores, besides the obvious ones like grass, etc) Mike C. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:04 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset Mike C. I know that if my mind wanders on climbout,,(hope it doesn't remember to find it's way home) and look at the tree tops etc, and look down and find I have not enough right rudder in, when I kick it in I can hear the engine "note" change and I climb faster. PS everyone try getting your Piet "in step" .......flying along, don't touch the throttle, push the nose down slightly, feel the increase of speed, wind noise, airspeed. You think you're descending, but you're not. Changes the angle of attack of the wing, Pulls that vacuum "bump" tighter to the top of the wing. You'll see 5 to 10 mph increase in speed, and you don't lose altitude. Check it out. Trouble is, I have to actively think of it. If I start looking at things, I revert back to the low and slow thing. Which is a good thing. Ain't Life Grand walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset I totally agree with Walt Evans-there is no need for rudder offset if you rig your plane right and build in offset when you make your motor mount. If you go thru the Tony Bingelis "flight test" notes of how to test your homebuilt he gives a step-by-step sequence of how rig your plane from how it flies with regard to ball offset, drift, etc. What you may be correcting for with rudder could very well be an error in the rigging of your wings----or twist in your horizontal stabilizer that you didn't true up quite perfectly. After all was said and done I added a small aluminum trim tab on my rudder to get hands-off cruise for folding charts and fumbling with things in the cockpit during x-country flights but the tab only has the slightest of offset. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:55 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta Jim Malley is from NJ like me. Seeing his Piet on the cover of a builder's mag. (can't remember which one) Is what made me fall in love with the Pietenpols, and order the plans. He used to monitor this site, hopefully he'll see this thread. I still have the mag around here somewhere. If I can find it and scan it, I will. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Owen Davies" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 12:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta > > Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: >> There is a gent in my video by the name of Jim Malley who I show taking >> off at Brodhead with a Pietenpol that is Fiesta powered. As I recall it >> had the gold/turned >> cowling burnishing that you're talking about Owen. >> > That was the name! Can't recall where I saw him. Somewhere in New Jersey, > I think. Never saw it fly. > >> Still I have to say I LOVE >> hearing the Model A powered Piets flying overhead at Brodhead--there is >> something about that. > You and me both! I don't plan to use one, and that decision pains me every > time I think of the sound. > > Owen > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:28 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Summer blows! I have to agree with ya Mike, I can get 16 hours in on Saturday and Sunday during the winter and 30 to 45 minutes a month in the summer to build my Piet John **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! =Mayfooter51209NO115) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:30:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta From: "Bill Church" I'm pretty sure this is the article Walt is referring to: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=44 Bill C. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 02:52:02 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Change to home email From: "Jack T. Textor" All, It's been busy at work, thank goodness, so I'm going to ask Matt to send the emails to my home address, jack@textors.com. If anyone needs to get a message to me fast use my work address jtextor@thepalmergroup.com. Thanks, Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:24 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: latest OSH email from EAA The latest email from EAA announcing the AirVenture fly-in features Dick Na vratil's Rotec-powered Piet among the other attractions (such as White Knig ht II=2C the newest Airbus=2C etc.). That airplane is getting to be an all -time classic. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 03:10:25 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ANY BUILDERS NEAR PENSACOLA? You cant imagine how much of the work space evaporates when you start building wings John **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! =Mayfooter51209NO115) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:38 PM PST US From: Jamie Stevens Subject: Pietenpol-List: Compared Weight to Model A engine To the list> I'm comparing engines to the weight of the Model A... I'm building using the original BP Pietenpol plans... first...what is the weight of the Model A... Compared to the Jabiru 2200 85hp weight 140# complete (includes exhaust, carburetor, starter motor, alternator and ignition system) more power less weight... anyone using the Jabiru 2200? any opinions? Jamie Stevens Whiteman Airport WHP "fuselage, empannage and ribs done" ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 04:04:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Compared Weight to Model A engine From: "rameses32" 240lbs with cast iron head I believe, without radiator. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243799#243799 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:07 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta RE: Pietenpol-List: FiestaBill C. That's exactly the article, and mag. Ain"t she a beaut? I still have that mag around here somewhere. Thanks Bill. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Church To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:28 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta I'm pretty sure this is the article Walt is referring to: http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/filesList2.cfm?AlbumID=44 Bill C. ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:33 PM PST US From: Dan Yocum Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset Walt, Thanks for the great info! When I fly out to see 'er I'll take a good look at the wash-out of the wings and the cant of the engine. Then again, I may not... the current owner, a freshly minted aerospace engineer, picked this plane up from the previous owner who lost his medical a few years ago. In the last year he has flown the proverbial snot out of it - about 120 hours. Can you imagine?!?? Oh, to have that kind of time on my hands, again. But, I digress... my point is, it's an airplane that spends *a lot* of time in the air. If it flew badly, it wouldn't be flying. At least, that's what I'm telling myself. Thanks, Dan walt wrote: > > Dan, > Things that come to mind are....... > Engine mount not made to print. This can be corrected by adding large > flat "fender" type washers between where the rubber mount meets the > mount steel "flange". > But if you need alot , you may have to slightly modify the cown in > front, where the prop shaft comes thru. I remember the engine has to > point down slightly, but forget if there's a side offset. If you're > buying this plane, and don't have prints, I can get the mount infro to you > > Uneven "angle of attack" of both wings, including equal Wash-in and > Wash-out. Fairly easy to find. Put the plane on some Sawhorses, like > you were going to initially rig it. Perfectly level the fuse side to > side. Shim the back horse so that the rear center wing struts and front > struts are level front to back. This means the fuse will be angled down > (as per print). > With the wing root and center section now level in both directions. (use > the bottom of the wing, its easier) > > Go to the wing tips, and see what you have. should be slightly down for > wash-in/out, But they must be EQUAL. If not, that's a problem. If > made to the original strut type the end bracket which goes inside the > strut end and is bolted to the wing brackets, would probably have to > remade or the holes on the flat part would have to be filled with weld > and redrilled. > Not the end of the world. If so, the cables, if done to plans, would > probably have plenty of adjustment left in the turnbuckles. > This is probably the problem. > If it's flown, any of the two problems would be confirmed by looking at > the ball slip tube, if it has one. To correct , and fly straight with > the rudder, it would show up there > > My Mentor always preached the importance of rigging a plane perfectly > before building struts and covering. > I've seen planes that looked great, but didn't fly right. Worst I've > seen (not a Piet) you could stand 50 in front of it and see the wings > were not at the same angle. Guess the builder didn't think it was that > important. > When I fly hands off, I can peek my fingertips from behind the > windsheild and make a gentle left or right turn. > One side of the plane has to the exact mirror image of the other > > > walt evans > NX140DL > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Yocum" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 1:28 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset > > >> >> Mike, Walt, >> >> I'd like some more of your thoughts on this subject. Take a look at >> the following picture (try to ignore the Grand Canyon in the background): >> >> http://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/PietenpolTrip#5254282417937096754 >> >> >> What could be the cause, and the potential remedy, of the need to >> apply continual right rudder on this plane in cruise flight? Can this >> be fixed on a completed and flying Pietenpol? >> >> Thanks, in advance, >> Dan >> >> PS. This picture is of the plane I'm planning to buy so I have a >> vested interested in the proposed solution. >> >> >> Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote: >>> I totally agree with Walt Evansthere is no need for rudder offset if >>> you rig your plane right and build in >>> >>> offset when you make your motor mount. If you go thru the Tony >>> Bingelis flight test notes of how to test >>> >>> your homebuilt he gives a step-by-step sequence of how rig your plane >>> from how it flies with regard to ball >>> >>> offset, drift, etc. What you may be correcting for with rudder >>> could very well be an error in the rigging of >>> >>> your wings----or twist in your horizontal stabilizer that you didnt >>> true up quite perfectly. >>> >>> After all was said and done I added a small aluminum trim tab on my >>> rudder to get hands-off cruise for folding >>> >>> charts and fumbling with things in the cockpit during x-country >>> flights but the tab only has the slightest of offset. >>> >>> Mike C. >>> >>> * >>> >>> >>> * >> >> -- >> Dan Yocum >> Fermilab 630.840.6509 >> yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov >> Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. >> >> >> >> >> > > > > > > > -- Dan Yocum Fermilab 630.840.6509 yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov Fermilab. Just zeros and ones. ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:21:58 PM PST US From: "Dick N." Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: latest OSH email from EAA Thanks Oscar I just also saw that ad in Aircraft owned magazine. I am really amazed at the number of places that picture has been used. I was at Sun n Fun last year and saw an Aircraft Spruce flyer with it on the face. Dick ----- Original Message ----- From: Oscar Zuniga To: Pietenpol List Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: latest OSH email from EAA The latest email from EAA announcing the AirVenture fly-in features Dick Navratil's Rotec-powered Piet among the other attractions (such as White Knight II, the newest Airbus, etc.). That airplane is getting to be an all-time classic. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:56 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Walt-- rudder offset You didn't really think I could resist looking through the rest of the pics did you? So what's up with #182?? :-) Clif > > Mike, Walt, > > I'd like some more of your thoughts on this subject. Take a look at the > following picture (try to ignore the Grand Canyon in the background): > > http://picasaweb.google.com/TresClements/PietenpolTrip#5254282417937096754 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.