---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 05/17/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - cabane length (carson) 2. 03:38 AM - Re: cabane length (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 04:58 AM - Re: cabane length (gcardinal) 4. 05:35 AM - Re: cabane length (Ryan Mueller) 5. 05:40 AM - Re: cabane length (Jack Phillips) 6. 05:55 AM - Re: cabane length (skellytown flyer) 7. 07:10 AM - Re: Buckeye Piets and Pietple (shad bell) 8. 08:23 AM - rudder cables (Gary Boothe) 9. 09:22 AM - cabane length (Tim Willis) 10. 09:28 AM - Fiesta-powered Piet (Oscar Zuniga) 11. 10:34 AM - Re: Gary Boothe T-craft (Darrel Jones) 12. 11:17 AM - Re: rudder cables (helspersew@aol.com) 13. 12:33 PM - Re: Fiesta-powered Piet (Bill Church) 14. 02:15 PM - Re: cabane length (carson) 15. 04:21 PM - Re: rudder cables (Gary Boothe) 16. 04:22 PM - Re: Fiesta-powered Piet (walt) 17. 06:37 PM - Re: rudder cables it's done (shad bell) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:42 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length From: "carson" Hi all Has anyone made the cabanes longer? Or would it cause any problems other than weight? Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244336#244336 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length From: helspersew@aol.com Carson, I made mine 1" longer. You will get many opinions on this. Makng them extra long will surely make it easier to get in to, but being a close-to-purist I don't like the way it looks- too much different from the way BHP did it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL P.S. I just looked again at the lost BHP papers in my possession.....1" longer is OK, but no more. -----Original Message----- From: carson Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 2:12 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Hi all Has anyone made the cabanes longer? Or would it cause any problems other than weight? Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244336#244336 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:58:03 AM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Carson, The cabanes on NX18235 are two inches longer than plans. The change in appearance isn't significant and it is relatively easy to get in and out. See attached. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: "carson" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:12 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length > > Hi all > Has anyone made the cabanes longer? > Or would it cause any problems other than weight? > Thanks > Carson > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244336#244336 > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:35:40 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length From: Ryan Mueller Dan, I think you may have to issue a posthumous violation to Bernard Pietenpol, and retroactively rescind his right to call at least two of his aircraft "Pietenpol Air Campers". If memory serves me correctly, the cabanes on both N7533U and N899H are at least two inches longer than plans; N7533U might have even been 4" at one point. If this is the case, he clearly violated his own standards..... ;) Ryan On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:36 AM, wrote: > Carson, > > I made mine 1" longer. You will get many opinions on this. Makng them extra > long will surely make it easier to get in to, but being a close-to-purist I > don't like the way it looks- too much different from the way BHP did it. > > Dan Helsper > Poplar Grove IL > > P.S. I just looked again at the lost BHP papers in my possession.....1" > longer is OK, but no more. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: carson > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 2:12 am > Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length > > > Hi all > Has anyone made the cabanes longer? > Or would it cause any problems other than weight? > Thanks > Carson > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:40:55 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Bernard would never do such a thing. Bernie might have done it. Jack Phillips NX899JP Do Not Archive unless you want to _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 8:35 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Dan, I think you may have to issue a posthumous violation to Bernard Pietenpol, and retroactively rescind his right to call at least two of his aircraft "Pietenpol Air Campers". If memory serves me correctly, the cabanes on both N7533U and N899H are at least two inches longer than plans; N7533U might have even been 4" at one point. If this is the case, he clearly violated his own standards..... ;) Ryan On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 5:36 AM, wrote: Carson, I made mine 1" longer. You will get many opinions on this. Makng them extra long will surely make it easier to get in to, but being a close-to-purist I don't like the way it looks- too much different from the way BHP did it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL P.S. I just looked again at the lost BHP papers in my possession.....1" longer is OK, but no more. -----Original Message----- From: carson Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 2:12 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Hi all Has anyone made the cabanes longer? Or would it cause any problems other than weight? Thanks Carson ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:55:36 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cabane length From: "skellytown flyer" I am sure D.J. told me he made the ones on mine longer.but then it is the dreaded GN-1 so who knows what I'll end up with.it has a stretched and widened fuselage as well so us bigger guys can fit but may not fly real well. but I'm sure anxious to try.I have the fuselage painted and on the gear now and moving forward with installing the tail group,front door etc.hoping to get a shot of it within a month or so with the center section up on the cabanes.then comes hanging the engine and test running it! I am getting anxious but work and life does slow me down.Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244353#244353 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:10:38 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Buckeye Piets and Pietple -Don,- I don't think I can make the auto conversion fly in this year, b ecause I have to work.- I told Dad and he said he might fly up if we get the annual done.- I lost a lot of time last week due to the break in and roberry of my hanger, so the piet got put on hold for a week or so.- I ho pe you all have a good turn out and the weather holds out for a good fly in .- - Happy skies, and safe landings, Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:50 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables Dan, I am wondering if the Lost BHP Papers have any allowance for running the cables under the stabilizer. Clearly it has been done; and I may regret asking for permission, rather than for forgiveness. The last thing I would want would be to be forced to park with the GN-1's someday when I make it to B-head (not that there's anything wrong with GN-1's). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Carson, I made mine 1" longer. You will get many opinions on this. Makng them extra long will surely make it easier to get in to, but being a close-to-purist I don't like the way it looks- too much different from the way BHP did it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL P.S. I just looked again at the lost BHP papers in my possession.....1" longer is OK, but no more. -----Original Message----- From: carson Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 2:12 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Hi all Has anyone made the cabanes longer? Or would it cause any problems other than weight? Thanks Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244336#244336 _____ We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:06 AM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Several Piets have longer cabanes for ease of entry. Most exceptions seem to be in the 1-2-3 inch range of extension. In 2006 I measured many and found almost all an inch or more taller. However, Lowell Frank showed me one Piet in a hangar at Brodhead last year that had the longest cabanes I have seen. I doubt any are longer. I forget, but I measured the forward cabane at either 30 or 32 inches. As is the norm, the front cabane was 1 inch taller than the rear. They were absolutely vertical. They looked extraordinarily long, that is to say strangely so, in part because they were made of thin (fore-to-aft) steel streamline tubing. This is normal enough in itself, of course, but exaggerates the height in the same way that a tall skinny guy looks taller. Despite its appearance, Lowell told me the plane flies very well indeed. I did not like the looks of cabanes that long, but I am making mine longer than plans as well. I neither fold nor bend well. I hope to fool the eye into thinking they conform more nearly to plans by using thicker aluminum streamline tubing. I also intend to pitch mine rearwards 4 to 5 inches for CG reasons. I know that others have done 4 inches rear pitch with shorter cabanes and without ill effect, so I think with the greater length my angle is no greater than others, so that I am not a "test pilot" in this case. BTW there was one Piet at Brodhead in either 2006 or 2008 that had SHORTER cabanes, and no flop or cutout. The pilot was no kid but still nimble, and sort of slid into the cockpit with a slight duck and twist. He may have been humming a "limbo" number at the time. Tim in central TX ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:25 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta-powered Piet I really enjoyed the Kitplanes article on Jim Malley's Piet. It's a beauty . Really interesting story about starting the build of it in a tiny apartm ent=2C too. I'm a technical nit-picker so bear with me on this one. The caption on the first page of the story=2C the picture of the engine=2C says it's a 98-hp Ford Fiesta engine. This is incorrect and what the author meant was what h e says two pages later when he calls it a 98-cubic-inch engine. This resul ts in the nominal 1600cc displacement of the Fiesta engine. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio=2C TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:00 AM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe T-craft Jim wrote: > > > JHi Darrel, > Did you get your crank back from Ashland? Would like to come over and see your Pfiefer/Piet but not sure if I can make it this weekend when the Taylorcrafts are there. > Cheers, > Jim > > Jim, Not yet, but Mike said he would bring them up some weekend soon. I need to give him another call and see when. The Pfeifer's hanging from the rafters in the hangar right now. I need to get the Stinson annualled and a truck project out of the way. I probably won't bring it down until I have the engine reassembled. You're welcome to drop by anytime. We have hamburgers and hot dogs every Saturday at noon. Darrel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:17:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables From: helspersew@aol.com Gary Sorry, but I can find no reference for an=C2-allowance for this. Try it at your own peril.............. Does the cable=C2-interfere with the "d own" elevator at all? Dan Helsper Poplar Groe, IL -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:18 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables Dan, =C2- I am wondering if the Lost BHP Papers have any allowance for running the cables under the stabilizer. Clearly it has been done; and I may regret asking for permission, rather than for forgiveness. The last thing I woul d want would be to be forced to park with the GN-1=99s someday when I make it to B-head (not that there=99s anything wrong with GN-1 =99s). =C2- Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done,=C2-Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length =C2- Carson, =C2- I made mine 1" longer. You will get many opinions on this. Makng them extr a long will surely make it easier to get in to, but being a close-to-puris t I don't like the way it looks- too much different from the way BHP did it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL P.S. I just looked again at the lost BHP papers in my possession.....1" lo nger is OK, but no more. -----Original Message----- From: carson Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 2:12 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length =C2- Hi all Has anyone made the cabanes longer? Or would it cause any problems other than weight? Thanks Carson =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- Read this topic online here: =C2- http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244336#244336 =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- =C2- We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =C2- ======================== =========== -= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum - -= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse -= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, -= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, -= Photoshare, and much much more: - -= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - MATRONICS WEB=2 0FORUMS - -= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! - -= --> http://forums.matronics.com - -======================== ======================== =========== -= - List Contribution Web Site - -= Thank you for your generous support! -= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. -= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution -======================== ======================== =========== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:33:26 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta-powered Piet From: "Bill Church" Oscar, Did you not notice the other technical errors in the write-up? Namely, the references to using 42-foot bungee cords for the landing gear, the ribs being made from 4x2-inch spruce, and the turtledeck being constructed from seven strips of 4x1-inch spruce. That would be one heavy Pietenpol! The article also says that the plans call for a fuselage tank, and that Malley added an additional tank in the wing - but we all know the opposite is true. Despite these technical errors (probably mostly just typos) I really like this article. Reading about others that manage to overcome greater obstacles than most of us face is inspiring. Thanks go out to Jim Markle for scanning and posting the article. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:15:52 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: cabane length From: "carson" Thanks for all the replies I think I will go a couple of inches longer. Carson Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244418#244418 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:21:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables Dan, I'm not to that point yet, although I just got my fuse mounted on its gear this weekend. Fitting and rigging the tail will be next. I can only assume that, like most Piets, mine will rub when at rest. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 11:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables Gary Sorry, but I can find no reference for an allowance for this. Try it at your own peril.............. Does the cable interfere with the "down" elevator at all? Dan Helsper Poplar Groe, IL -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 10:18 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables Dan, I am wondering if the Lost BHP Papers have any allowance for running the cables under the stabilizer. Clearly it has been done; and I may regret asking for permission, rather than for forgiveness. The last thing I would want would be to be forced to park with the GN-1's someday when I make it to B-head (not that there's anything wrong with GN-1's). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [ mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:36 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: cabane length Carson, I made mine 1" longer. You will get many opinions on this. Makng them extra long will surely make it easier to get in to, but being a close-to-purist I don't like the way it looks- too much different from the way BHP did it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove IL P.S. I just looked again at the lost BHP papers in my possession.....1" longer is OK, but no more. -----Original Message----- From: carson < carsonvella@yahoo.com.au> Sent: Sun, 17 May 2009 2:12 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: cabane length carsonvella@yahoo.com.au> Hi all Has anyone made the cabanes longer? Or would it cause any problems other than weight? Thanks Carson < /PRE> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244336#244336 _____ We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== ist" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =================================== tp://forums.matronics.com =================================== _blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution =================================== _____ We found the real 'Hotel California' and the 'Seinfeld' diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:45 PM PST US From: "walt" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta-powered Piet Bill, It's amazing how the press works. I, at one time had a writer from a local newspaper ask to do a story on me and my homebuilt airplane. She talked to me directly, with no middle person. When the article came out, she had made these amazing statements about me being an instructor for 30+ years, and other bizzare things. No, I've never had my instructors rating. Don't know where that came from. It's kind of disturbing when you read the morning newspaper for the truth. Go figure. walt evans NX140DL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Church" Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fiesta-powered Piet Oscar, Did you not notice the other technical errors in the write-up? Namely, the references to using 42-foot bungee cords for the landing gear, the ribs being made from 4x2-inch spruce, and the turtledeck being constructed from seven strips of 4x1-inch spruce. That would be one heavy Pietenpol! The article also says that the plans call for a fuselage tank, and that Malley added an additional tank in the wing - but we all know the opposite is true. Despite these technical errors (probably mostly just typos) I really like this article. Reading about others that manage to overcome greater obstacles than most of us face is inspiring. Thanks go out to Jim Markle for scanning and posting the article. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:25 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rudder cables it's done For running rudder cables under the stab, that's what we did.- Works fine , and looks better in my opinion.- It also makes running seperate tailwhe el cables easier.- The only bennifit to runing them to the middle (origin al design) is equal load on the hinges (in therory), at least as far as I c an tell.- If you want them under the stab go for it, it won't hurt anythi ng.- Look at any other homebuilt design and 99% have the rudder horn unde r the horiz stab.- I remember talking Dad into running the cables "down l ow" (at a young age of 21)-to make the airplane look more streamlined.- Do what you want, use your own God given common sense, and some "Tribal Kn owlage", and you will be just fine with this little, simple, forgiving airp lane design.- My only advise for building this airplane, and getting it d one is; Don't over analize this design, just look at what it is and build i t to suite yourself.- It is NOT the space shuttle, or SR-71.- Cable pul ls left or right, up or down, does not bind works good so it is good.- If t he original design works than don't fix it.-Use good practices and techni ques, but don't over design the simplicty.- Yes, if your not sure ask, bu t the plans, or design is NOT perfect, if you see room for improvement, imp rove it if you have the knowlage or ability.- A pietenpol is not a compli cated machine, about as complicated as a barn door. - Shad - P.S. of course everything is much harder with out tools, mine are all gone, but I did buy a new pistol, and got a few bullets with some poor S.O.B.'s name on them, and if the thief reads this, I dare you to come'on back!=0A =0A=0A ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.