Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Carburator question (rameses32)
2. 05:48 AM - Re: Barber Field, Alliance, OH Auto Engine Conversion Fly-In (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
3. 06:23 AM - Re: Carburator question (Pieti Lowell)
4. 06:32 AM - Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? (K5YAC)
5. 06:45 AM - Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? (Pieti Lowell)
6. 07:19 AM - Re: Re: Carburator question (Jeff Boatright)
7. 07:36 AM - Okoume Plywood Gussets? (JohnC)
8. 07:51 AM - Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? (Bill Church)
9. 08:45 AM - WAY off topic... PIC (Patrick Panzera)
10. 08:54 AM - Re: WAY off topic... PIC (Jeff Boatright)
11. 09:09 AM - Re: WAY off topic... PIC (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
12. 10:01 AM - Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? (K5YAC)
13. 11:49 AM - Re: Carburator question (Mac Zirges)
14. 12:34 PM - Re: Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? (walt)
15. 12:52 PM - Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? (walt)
16. 12:55 PM - Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? (walt)
17. 02:34 PM - Re: Re: EAA Sport Aviation Magazine article on six builders from GA (Barry Davis)
18. 04:23 PM - Re: Carburator question (rameses32)
19. 05:02 PM - Re: Carburator question (Pieti Lowell)
20. 05:16 PM - Re: WAY off topic... PIC (Pieti Lowell)
21. 05:27 PM - Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? (old man emu)
22. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: WAY off topic... PIC (Patrick Panzera)
23. 08:25 PM - Re: Re: WAY off topic... PIC (gcardinal)
24. 08:47 PM - Can anyone tell me how long a Model A engine is? (rameses32)
25. 08:49 PM - Re: Can anyone tell me how long a Model A engine is? (rameses32)
26. 09:13 PM - Re: Re: WAY off topic... PIC (Patrick Panzera)
27. 09:54 PM - Re: WAY off topic... PIC (walt)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Carburator question |
Ok, This may seem like a silly question, but it would be even sillier not to ask
it. Is the reason that all the carbys used on the model A engines are updrafts
is to keep the Carb out of the prop blast and to help keep it from Icing up?
The reason I ask this is I am still playing with the Holden inline six engine,
actually picking one up tomorrow if it is raining. I'm tryin to design intake
and exhaust manifolds and am trying to figure out what carburator to use. I
mean I could go with an SU but I think that the oil filled slide would be a huge
icing problem.
CHarley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244599#244599
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| Subject: | Barber Field, Alliance, OH Auto Engine Conversion |
Fly-In
Mikee,
>
>Sure, we love to have the unenlightened join us. ;).
>
>Kip Gardner
Thank you for the kind invitation Kip but I'd rather remain ignorant:)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Carburator question |
Hi Mr CHarlel
My experience with various carbs will give you an idea of what can be used and
what not to use.
I tried an SU, Type HD, HS, HIF with 1-1/2" in side with 1-3/8 out, If you want
the exact No. I can get them , but the Ford ran perfect at all speeds sitting
on the ground, but as I rotated off the runway the engine lost power. I have
a shoe-box full of many fuel control / flow inserts. I tried all of them, to no
avail, so I axed the SU.
Since you have a fuel pump, as I have the Best carb I ended up with was a Weber
Model 30 DIC progressive two barrel,down draft,Mounted over the manifold, this
produced 65 HP in my Ford, and ran it a number of years.
The Funk engine 63 HP with Ford B block uses a Zenith down draft and smooth curved
ducts,mounted under the manifold, this is still being used on a Piet I built
in the late 80s.This is a very good combination.
The Globe engine uses the Ford carb mounted backwards.
Any up-draft used on lift-trucks ,also will work well.
The Posa can be trouble if a shut-off is not used, started a fire with that one.
I now use fuel injection with great performance 85 HP from a Ford.
I have tried Turbo, very scary, I don't think the Ford will hold-up long with that
combination.
When one uses a fuel mixing device that restricts air, you will lose a lot of power
when you need it.
If you still require A SU I will make you a good deal on my unwanted carb with
many extras plus a manual.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244625#244625
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| Subject: | Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? |
I am 6'5" tall... so I too am awaiting responses to you questions. I've already
started my build as I have been told that it can be custom fit to suit my stature.
I hope that is the case. I'll be going to Brodhead in search of ideas,
answers, suggestions.
This stuff is such a challenge, but so far a lot of fun.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244629#244629
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| Subject: | Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? |
Mr. Emu,Rudder peddles can be mounted as far forward as you would like. remove
the rudder bar,
Jigsaw the top of the bulkhead slots to allow much room for your shins to clear,
pad if required.
A cut-out on the aft center section will allow head room and will not change the
flying performance one bit.
With long legs a side door isn't required.
Vi Kaplar, Bernie's close friend, is 6' 3" and has been flying Piets for more years
than most have lived.
You may need a higher wind screen, or no hair.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244634#244634
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| Subject: | Re: Carburator question |
Lowell,
Do you plan to fly the fuel injected Piet to Brodhead this year?
Thanks,
Jeff
>...
>I now use fuel injection with great performance 85 HP from a Ford...
Message 7
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| Subject: | Okoume Plywood Gussets? |
I am looking for some advise.
I have spent the last year preparing for my Pietenpol building project. I have
acquired many tools, some spruce and plywood. I have completed my construction
table along with a rib jig. I purchased some 1/16th Okoume plywood with a BS6566
rating from Boulters. I also have some Wicks aircraft plywood I got from a
failed builder in Ohio. The Okoume is alot more flexible and looks like it would
be perfect for the leading edge and the Wicks plywood seems better for the
wing rib gussets. Would this be acceptable, or should I be doing some type of
strength testing. I am excited about mixing up that first batch of T88, but I
would hate to start this off with a screw up. Any advice or suggestions will
be greatly appreciated.
John C. in Kentucky
--------
I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I don't poke
him in the eye on accident.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244639#244639
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| Subject: | Okoume Plywood Gussets? |
John,
Stop preparing and start building.
Your proposed uses for your plywood sound well thought out.
Aircraft ply for the gussets is perfect, and Okoume for the leading edge
wrap should be fine (that's what I'm doing).
No strength testing required. Just be sure to scuff up the gluing side
of the plywood with some medium (80 grit) sandpaper before gluing - or
more wisely, before cutting into little fiddly gusssets that are a pain
in the butt to sand individually.
Bill C.
Wonder how the guy in Ohio would feel about being referred to as a
"failed builder"?
Message 9
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| Subject: | WAY off topic... PIC |
Sorry to be so far off topic, but this is perhaps the most diverse group I
belong to, so what better place to ask?
With two qualified pilots on board, one having more hours and more ratings,
endorsements, etc, but the more "junior" pilot has control of the plane, is
seated in the left seat and paid the rental, loses control and bends the
plane, can the senior pilot be held accountable?
Thanks!
Pat
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
It has happened. Check with Yodice at AOPA.
><panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
>
>Sorry to be so far off topic, but this is perhaps the most diverse group I
>belong to, so what better place to ask?
>
>With two qualified pilots on board, one having more hours and more ratings,
>endorsements, etc, but the more "junior" pilot has control of the plane, is
>seated in the left seat and paid the rental, loses control and bends the
>plane, can the senior pilot be held accountable?
>
>Thanks!
>
>Pat
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
I recall a recent (NTSB?) ruling where they said yes the senior pilot (Instructor
I think) was responsibile for and accident where the junior pilot was PIC.
They said he had some sort of authority even though he was not instructing and
was not the PIC.
Sounds like BS to me, but there it is.
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Patrick Panzera <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WAY off topic... PIC
>
> Sorry to be so far off topic, but this is perhaps the most diverse group I
> belong to, so what better place to ask?
>
> With two qualified pilots on board, one having more hours and more ratings,
> endorsements, etc, but the more "junior" pilot has control of the plane, is
> seated in the left seat and paid the rental, loses control and bends the
> plane, can the senior pilot be held accountable?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Pat
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? |
[quote="eng(at)canadianrogers.com"]Just be sure to scuff up the gluing side of
the plywood with some medium (80 grit) sandpaper before gluing - or more wisely,
before cutting into little fiddly gussets that are a pain in the butt to sand
individually.
> [b]
Oh man... that seems so obvious right about now... 1500 gussets later. LOL!
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244669#244669
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| Subject: | Re: Carburator question |
The basic reason for using the updraft carburetor is that the original
Pietenpol used gravity feed to get gas to the carburetor--an updraft
carburetor is lower than a downdraft and provides just that much more "head"
to insure good flow to keep the engine running in all attitudes. If you go
to some other setup you may need a fuel pump.
Mac in Oregon
----- Original Message -----
From: "rameses32" <rameses32@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 1:12 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Carburator question
>
> Ok, This may seem like a silly question, but it would be even sillier not
to ask it. Is the reason that all the carbys used on the model A engines are
updrafts is to keep the Carb out of the prop blast and to help keep it from
Icing up? The reason I ask this is I am still playing with the Holden inline
six engine, actually picking one up tomorrow if it is raining. I'm tryin to
design intake and exhaust manifolds and am trying to figure out what
carburator to use. I mean I could go with an SU but I think that the oil
filled slide would be a huge icing problem.
>
> CHarley
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244599#244599
>
>
> --
12:00 AM
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? |
I'm 6' 3" and don't really have trouble fitting, snug but OK The tip below
about the bulkhead slots made higher would be a good sugestion. I'd advise
building it to plans, and when you can get into the fuse on sawhorses, get
in and see how much you have to modify.
Sholdn't take long with a good old fashioned coping saw
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 9:44 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol?
> <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
>
> Mr. Emu,Rudder peddles can be mounted as far forward as you would like.
> remove the rudder bar,
> Jigsaw the top of the bulkhead slots to allow much room for your shins to
> clear, pad if required.
> A cut-out on the aft center section will allow head room and will not
> change the flying performance one bit.
> With long legs a side door isn't required.
> Vi Kaplar, Bernie's close friend, is 6' 3" and has been flying Piets for
> more years than most have lived.
> You may need a higher wind screen, or no hair.
> Pieti Lowell
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244634#244634
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? |
RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume Plywood Gussets?Just remember If people are
wetting their leading edge ply,,,and using T-88. T-88 works just as
well on wet wood. So you don't have to "wet and jig till dry"
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:51 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume Plywood Gussets?
John,
Stop preparing and start building.
Your proposed uses for your plywood sound well thought out.
Aircraft ply for the gussets is perfect, and Okoume for the leading
edge wrap should be fine (that's what I'm doing).
No strength testing required. Just be sure to scuff up the gluing side
of the plywood with some medium (80 grit) sandpaper before gluing - or
more wisely, before cutting into little fiddly gusssets that are a pain
in the butt to sand individually.
Bill C.
Wonder how the guy in Ohio would feel about being referred to as a
"failed builder"?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Okoume Plywood Gussets? |
John,
Just remember that Bernard Pietenpol used those round Quaker Oats boxes for
the leading edge of his planes. I guess one box= one rib bay.
And my Mentor tells me that the old Aeronca's (I think) used cardboard
gussets on their ribs. And these were Certified Planes
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "JohnC" <jcalvert@trinityvideo.net>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 10:36 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Okoume Plywood Gussets?
>
> I am looking for some advise.
> I have spent the last year preparing for my Pietenpol building project. I
> have acquired many tools, some spruce and plywood. I have completed my
> construction table along with a rib jig. I purchased some 1/16th Okoume
> plywood with a BS6566 rating from Boulters. I also have some Wicks
> aircraft plywood I got from a failed builder in Ohio. The Okoume is alot
> more flexible and looks like it would be perfect for the leading edge and
> the Wicks plywood seems better for the wing rib gussets. Would this be
> acceptable, or should I be doing some type of strength testing. I am
> excited about mixing up that first batch of T88, but I would hate to start
> this off with a screw up. Any advice or suggestions will be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> John C. in Kentucky
>
> --------
> I just hope when it's my turn to reach up and touch the face of God, I
> don't poke him in the eye on accident.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244639#244639
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: EAA Sport Aviation Magazine article on six builders |
from GA
Thanks for your comment.
We built the nose of the rib like this only for (our) speed of
building. We have built 6 planes in 6 years or 1 per year from plans to
engine break-in. This nose (like another plane one of us had built before)
lets you just slip in a small standard lightweight piece of wood to form the
leading edge and adjust it in or out as necessary. We used an aluminum
leading edge for the profile and the wood leading edge became just a brace
behind it. It's a lot faster (to us) than the handrail forming. We had 4 rib
jigs going at the same time and there was a concern that they might be
slightly different. As it turned out, all the ribs came out identical and
are exactly to plans in profile.
You can see in the middle picture the lightning hole and behind the
guys the leading edge in place. Also in the very back corner under the light
is a stack of ribs for 4 more wing panels. Our spars are 1" before routing,
but 3/4" non-routed is sufficient, it's sort of builders choice.
Be extra careful in changing plans as this can (will) lead to
difficulties down the road. The Pietenpol plans are very very good and a
vast amount of information is there. Building by myself, I would have built
strictly to plans. It's amazing that you will see something new almost every
time you study them. And just when you think that some detail has been left
off the plans, just go back and look again, it's there!
Boy, we looked a lot younger in those pictures and some of us had a
lot more hair.
Barry Davis
NX973BP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 1:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: EAA Sport Aviation Magazine article on six
builders from GA
Great article.
I've been wondering about something for several weeks since I first read
this article, perhaps you guys can provide an answer. When I look at the
photo of the wing rib on page 66 (lower left), I see that the leading edge
is done a bit differently than mine. I am using the original Bernie plans,
which call for a 1/2" x 1/2" block reinforced with a small gusset. These
guys have a notched leading edge with a fully sheeted area in front of the
spar. Is this just a different technique or different plans? I like the way
theirs look... just wondering if I should have done that too?
It also looks like the spacing for their spar is likely 1". I built my wing
ribs to accept a 3/4" spar as I have read that the 3/4" is sufficient. This
is correct, right?
I guess I'm just second guessing my techniques since their build looks a
little different than mine.
--------
Mark
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244526#244526
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| Subject: | Re: Carburator question |
Thank you everyone for all of the information. Atleast now I know I am not forced
to use one type of carby only.
CHarley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244710#244710
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| Subject: | Re: Carburator question |
Hi Jeff, I will be at Brodhead with My Super B Ford, Injection and all. It was
there last year but not always visible, South hangers.
Frank P has challenged me to a race, he has the Lambert 90 HP 5 cyl that was on
my Piet 2 years ago, since he is 30 pounds lighter he should give me some good
odds, and half my age. Just look for the blue Piet with silver wings and Allen's
picture on the side label "Golden Age".
Pieti Lowell
...
I now use fuel injection with great performance 85 HP from a Ford...
[/quote][/quote]
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244716#244716
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
Who has the more net worth is what the lawyers will know.
I think it makes no difference who PIC is.
Pieti Lowell
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http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244717#244717
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| Subject: | Re: How does a six-footer get into a Pietenpol? |
There are two braces which run from the floor centre to the fuselage sides. The
bulkhead in question is attached to these braces, making cutting bigger slots
for the legs a bit difficult. What loads are those braces taking? Do they take
loads between the fuselage and rear wing attach?
I figured that relocating the rudder bar would solve the leg length problem, but
can the rudder bar be made so that the pedals could be adjusted to suit people
of various leg length?
I'm afraid I can't get to Oshkosh this year, but there will be a good sized Australian
contingent attending. I'm making a list of questions for those guys to
ask Pietenpol owners at Oshkosh, so be prepared for a few "G'days" [Laughing]
Old Man Emu
--------
I can't fly, but I'm telling you,
I can run the pants off a kangaroo
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244719#244719
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
Personally I'm not as concerned over losing my house and my stuff as I am
over losing my PPL. I can always get more stuff.
> Who has the more net worth is what the lawyers will know.
> I think it makes no difference who PIC is.
> Pieti Lowell
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
Hey Pat,
Is there an interesting story here that you'd like to share?
Greg C.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:29 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: WAY off topic... PIC
> <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
>
> Personally I'm not as concerned over losing my house and my stuff as I am
> over losing my PPL. I can always get more stuff.
>
>> Who has the more net worth is what the lawyers will know.
>> I think it makes no difference who PIC is.
>> Pieti Lowell
>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | Can anyone tell me how long a Model A engine is? |
Just the crankshaft length, and heigth from crankshaft center to top of engine.
I just want to compare it to the Holden 186 inline six I picked up today, it
is 29" long, and 16" tall from crankshaft center to top of rocker cover.
I still havent weighed it yet but two of us lifted it into my van, with manifolds,
alternator, flywheel and clutch. I took all of that off and the bits I took
off weighed 60 lbs. When I got home I managed to put it on the engine stand
by myself, it was a wrestling match but I can't see it weighing much more than
250lbs. It has a steel crankshaft and reaches peak torque at 1800 RPM.
Charley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244730#244730
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Can anyone tell me how long a Model A engine is? |
Sorry, my mistake, 181ft/lbs torque at 1600 RPM.
rameses32 wrote:
> Just the crankshaft length, and heigth from crankshaft center to top of engine.
I just want to compare it to the Holden 186 inline six I picked up today, it
is 29" long, and 16" tall from crankshaft center to top of rocker cover.
>
> I still havent weighed it yet but two of us lifted it into my van, with manifolds,
alternator, flywheel and clutch. I took all of that off and the bits I took
off weighed 60 lbs. When I got home I managed to put it on the engine stand
by myself, it was a wrestling match but I can't see it weighing much more than
250lbs. It has a steel crankshaft and reaches peak torque at 1800 RPM.
>
> Charley
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244731#244731
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
> Hey Pat,
>
> Is there an interesting story here that you'd like to share?
No. I just put myself in the first person to protect the innocent. :)
Pat
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: WAY off topic... PIC |
No
walt evans
NX140DL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Panzera" <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 11:40 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WAY off topic... PIC
> <panzera@experimental-aviation.com>
>
> Sorry to be so far off topic, but this is perhaps the most diverse group I
> belong to, so what better place to ask?
>
> With two qualified pilots on board, one having more hours and more
> ratings,
> endorsements, etc, but the more "junior" pilot has control of the plane,
> is
> seated in the left seat and paid the rental, loses control and bends the
> plane, can the senior pilot be held accountable?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Pat
>
>
>
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