---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/03/09: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:39 AM - Jack- Please explain trim mech (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 05:23 AM - Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech (Jack Phillips) 3. 06:17 AM - Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech (Jeff Boatright) 4. 06:44 AM - Re: 80th anniversary fly-in (Lagowski Morrow) 5. 09:41 AM - Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech (K5YAC) 6. 10:41 AM - Re: Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech (Jim) 7. 10:42 AM - pulley size (Richard Schreiber) 8. 12:44 PM - Re: Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 9. 01:36 PM - Re: pulley size (Jack Phillips) 10. 01:53 PM - pulley size and pulley cable guards (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 11. 02:50 PM - aileron pulley (Richard Schreiber) 12. 05:16 PM - Re: pulley size (Jack) 13. 06:08 PM - Re: pulley size (Jack Phillips) 14. 08:23 PM - Gross weight rating and modifications... (Mark Roberts) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:00 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech From: helspersew@aol.com Hi Jack, Please give details of your trim mechanism. Mine looks like this and I am curious exactly how yours works (good?) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:05 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech My trim system is essentially the same as Mike Cuy's (whose ideas I stole shamelessly throughout the project). The only change I made was to move the control lever to stick up through the rear seat bottom (his is below the front of the seat and moves side to side). I wanted the system to work intuitively, since I need all the help I can get. With this system, moving the lever forward gives nose down trim, pulling it aft gives nose up trim. The system consists of a horn added to the elevator bellcrank, with a couple of springs which can be tensioned by moving the lever in the cockpit. The photos should make it clear. The large disc with the notches is just a friction lock to tighten the bushing that supports the lever, locking the trim in whatever position you desire. The system works well. I don't need it much, because my fuel tank is in the centersection and fuel burn doesn't change the CG much, but it helps when carrying a large load in the forward baggage compartment. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Hi Jack, Please give details of your trim mechanism. Mine looks like this and I am curious exactly how yours works (good?) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:37 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Jack, Thanks for the explanation. A very trim (pun intended) installation! Jeff ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:06 AM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in Jack, you and Scott talked me out of going across the lake! I'll go around the north end and enjoy the view. Thanks for the good advice--Jim Lagowski do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:01 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > I agree completely with Scott. Apart from the "JFK Jr. Effect", where you > lose spatial orientation in the haze over water, the weather around the > Great Lakes can be unpredictable in the summer. In 2007 I flew my RV-4 to > Brodhead, then on to OSH. While there, my wife asked me to fly her to > visit > her best friend at Mackinac Island. On the way there we flew more or less > directly across the northern part of Lake Michigan. On the return trip I > elected to follow the shoreline along the U.P. of Michigan, and still got > forced down by unpredicted low ceilings (we were down to 300' AGL before > we > landed at Manistique to wait for the clouds to lift). I would not > recommend > flying over the lake. It's mighty lonely flying a Pietenpol over the > mountains, but I would take that to flying that far over the water. > > If you are too far north to take the southern route, skirting Chicago, I > would fly over St. Ignace (nice airport there - in 2007 while we were > there > I saw the Pietenpol from Quebec there as he was heading back home), by way > of Manistique (tell Rudy "Hi" for me), then Manitowoc and Green Bay, > Oshkosh > and then Brodhead. > > Be sure to mistrust any briefingsyou get from Flight Service - the briefer > that advised me on that trip said it would be 2,000 scattered, 4,000 > broken > and 8,000 overcast. It started as 2,000broken and quickly went down to > the > deck. When I landed at Manistique, Rudy (the FBO) told me that the > weather > usually does that in the summer and everybody knows it - except the > briefer > I had from California thatmorning. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott > Knowlton > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 6:28 PM > To: Lagowski Morrow ; pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > > Jim, I crossed the lake last year with my boy in our Stinson. That's a > long 45 minutes my friend and for quite a long part of it you have no land > to look at in front or behind you. The engine takes on a different sound > and things get just a little spooky. We wore our flotation vests and > briefed our actions in a ditching but the fact is the water in the middle > of > lake Michigan isn't much warmer than about 52 degrees F at the end of > July. > Prospects for survival even if picked up within an hour are slim. > I'm not saying that anyone shouldn't cross this section of water since the > alternative is a dance through Chicago's teminal area. Just take the trek > very seriously and understand the risks. I cross the lake seven or eight > times a month flying into Chicago for my airline. Nevertheless, when > halfway across the stretch in the stinson my 13 year old boy could sense > my > agitation and took my mind off things by playing 20 questions with me! > Gotta love the fearlessness of a teenage boy! > Scott Knowlton > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lagowski Morrow > > Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 22:08:51 > To: > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > I am going to try hard to get to Brodhead and perhaps Oshkosh. It depend > entirely on how my medical marvel wife is doing and whether I can get > someone to stay with her for the duration. I've driven to Brodhead before > the Piet. was finished but am now flying off the FAA 25 hours on mine. Do > I > fly around the top of Michigan and down the Dorr peninsula or just cross > Lake Michigan from Ludington, Mi., a leg of about 45 minutes. That is the > question. The Ludington route follows the Ferry route. > > Jim Lagowski, NX221PT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: gcardinal > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 10:54 PM > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > We are at 13 so far. No doubt there are others who aren't on the list. > > Has anybody heard from, or know the whereabouts of Chuck Gantzer? He seems > to have fallen off the face of the earth. > > Greg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Jack > Phillips > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 12:02 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > I haven't been keeping track, Greg. How many do you have so far? > > Jack Phillips > > > ---------------- > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > gcardinal@comcast.net > Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:00 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > Hi Larry, > > You are correct that a list composed at Brodhead will be more accurate. > The > attempt now is to get a list of names in the July newsletter and hope it > inspires > others who may be undecided to make the trip and join in the fun. > > Cheers, > > Greg Cardinal > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Lawrence Williams" > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Monday, June 1, 2009 7:58:20 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Pietenpol-List: 80th anniversary fly-in > > > > Seems like the list of participants would be a whole lot more accurate if > it > was composed at Brodhead or on arrival at OSH. > > In any event, I will attempt to be in attendance in N899LW barring: > > 1. prop-strike in hayfield. > 2. mag crapping out in thunderstorm. > 3. bad weather blanketing the center of the nation. > 4. Model "A" giving up the ghost on it's 75th birthday. > 5. axle bearings siezing. > 6. getting lost. > 7. finding a better alternative enroute. > 8. less than favorable tailwinds. > 9. ___________________________ (reserved for other eventualities). > > > &nbs================ > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.c > omhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic > s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic > s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > > ---------------- > - Release Date: 06/01/09 17:55:00 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:53:00 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:54 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Jack- Please explain trim mech From: "K5YAC" Neato! -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=246619#246619 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:39 AM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Jack, Your trim system is very well thought out. I was wondering how to do a elevator trim and you just solved my problem. Also thanks to Mike Cuy and the sharing of how to do tips. Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 3, 2009, pietflyr@bellsouth.net wrote: My trim system is essentially the same as Mike Cuys (whose ideas I stole shamelessly throughout the project). The only change I made was to move the control lever to stick up through the rear seat bottom (his is below the front of the seat and moves side to side). I wanted the system to work intuitively, since I need all the help I can get. With this system, moving the lever forward gives nose down trim, pulling it aft gives nose up trim. The system consists of a horn added to the elevator bellcrank, with a couple of springs which can be tensioned by moving the lever in the cockpit. The photos should make it clear. The large disc with the notches is just a friction lock to tighten the bushing that supports the lever, locking the trim in whatever position you desire. The system works well. I dont need it much, because my fuel tank is in the centersection and fuel burn doesnt change the CG much, but it helps when carrying a large load in the forward baggage compartment. Jack Phillips NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 7:37 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Hi Jack, Please give details of your trim mechanism. Mine looks like this and I am curious exactly how yours works (good?) Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:06 AM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:15 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jack- Please explain trim mech Jack must also be a fan of Cartalk on NPR with Ray and Tom using the term 'shamelessly' and I admit that I shamelessly stole most of my ideas from others who had built before me--I am merely passing them along if anyone has interest. The pocket watch idea and slotted side map pockets were liberated from Ed Snyder's (Round Lake NY) Model A Ford Piet. I find my trim to be very useful having a 17 gallon nose tank but as Jack mentioned his trim isn't used much unless he fills his nose baggage area. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:36:27 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pulley size Rick, I think I used the MS24566-3B pulleys in mine. I also have 3/32" control cables. No problem so far, with 150 hours on them. Just make sure the pulleys are "caged" so there is no way a cable can slip off and jam. See the attached photo, which shows a view looking from the cockpit up and to the right. You can see the aileron pulley (right behind the radio), with pink mason's twine representing the control cable. Note the "cage" strap covering the pulley, which is tight enogh to prevent 3/32" cable from slipping out of the pulley groove and getting jammed between the pulley and the spar. Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:53:35 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size and pulley cable guards Rick, Same here-3/32" diameter aileron cables. The Tony Bingelis books show so me really simple ways to keep the cable from jumping (turbulence, slack, rapid control movement) and when the FAA came o ut to inspect he asked me to install an additional pulley guard seen in this photo-a little L-bracket in addition to the Piete npol designed fitting. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:50:28 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Pietenpol-List: aileron pulley Jack and Mike thanks for the response. I also talked to my EAA Tech Counselor and he also felt the MS24566-3B pulley would be fine with the 3/32 inch cable. My wings are now varnished and complete except for covering. The center section is complete and installed on temporary wooden cabane struts. I still need to finish the wheels and wooden main gear, then its on to the engine. I just got a line on some used Taylorcraft lift struts. I hope to check them out this weekend. Rick Schreiber ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:16:21 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pulley size Jack, Have you had any problems viewing your radio display at that angle? I'm at that point with my center section. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com Rick, I think I used the MS24566-3B pulleys in mine. I also have 3/32" control cables. No problem so far, with 150 hours on them. Just make sure the pulleys are "caged" so there is no way a cable can slip off and jam. See the attached photo, which shows a view looking from the cockpit up and to the right. You can see the aileron pulley (right behind the radio), with pink mason's twine representing the control cable. Note the "cage" strap covering the pulley, which is tight enogh to prevent 3/32" cable from slipping out of the pulley groove and getting jammed between the pulley and the spar. Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:50 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pulley size No - it is easy enough to see. The transponder is a little more difficult, but it doable (and I don't use it very often). Jack Phillips _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 8:16 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: pulley size Jack, Have you had any problems viewing your radio display at that angle? I'm at that point with my center section. Thanks! Jack www.textors.com Rick, I think I used the MS24566-3B pulleys in mine. I also have 3/32" control cables. No problem so far, with 150 hours on them. Just make sure the pulleys are "caged" so there is no way a cable can slip off and jam. See the attached photo, which shows a view looking from the cockpit up and to the right. You can see the aileron pulley (right behind the radio), with pink mason's twine representing the control cable. Note the "cage" strap covering the pulley, which is tight enogh to prevent 3/32" cable from slipping out of the pulley groove and getting jammed between the pulley and the spar. Hope this helps, Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 1:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: pulley size I was just putting in the pulleys for my aileron cable run and discovered I was one short. When I looked up the pulley in the AS&S catalog I realized that the 2" MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys I was using are only for cable sizes 1/8 to 3/16". Since my aileron cables are 3/32 is this going to be a problem with pulley wear? I have seen 2 inch phenolic pulleys with 3/32 cables at Brodhead, but have no idea if this is really a bad idea or not. In the 2 inch size there are only 2 choices, the MS24566-3B Ralmark pulleys or the white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. Right now my 3 alternatives are to keep it as it is now, keep the 2" MS24566-3B pulleys and go with 1/8" aileron cables or buy the 2" white UHMW plastic special pulleys that AS&S and Wicks sell. The UHMW pulleys are good for cable sizes of 3/32 to 3/16". Any and all ideas and suggestions are welcome. Thanks, Rick Schreiber http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:07 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gross weight rating and modifications... From: Mark Roberts Hey All: I have been looking for some of the weight specs for the Piet, and have a couple of questions. I would like to have something closer to 1200 lbs total gross weight for the plane. I think I saw on a website I found tonight that the gross was at somewhere around 1050. I've only found one site that lists the Piet's specs, and as I am 255 or so, I want to know if I can fly this bird with my 150 lb wife and an over night bag... May be a great reason for the stomach by-pass surgery and a tummy tuck, but crud, if I'm gonna spend that much money I should get a kit plane :o\ Is the gross weight established by the 'designer' or by the builder based on having a corvair engine vs. the 65 hp types when the builder registers it with the FAA... Thanks for the clairification and help! 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