Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:25 AM - Re: Re: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol? (Clif Dawson)
2. 03:13 AM - Re: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol? (Rod Wooller)
3. 04:10 AM - Re: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision (Jack Phillips)
4. 04:36 AM - Re: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol? (helspersew@aol.com)
5. 06:35 AM - Re: Flying an Idea (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
6. 06:41 AM - Olds engine (Douwe Blumberg)
7. 07:06 AM - Something other then cables (Michael Perez)
8. 07:09 AM - Something other then cable *LINK* (Michael Perez)
9. 07:40 AM - Re: Something other than cables (helspersew@aol.com)
10. 08:36 AM - Re: Something other than cables (Michael Perez)
11. 08:53 AM - Re: Something other than cables (H RULE)
12. 09:12 AM - Re: Something other then cables (Ryan Mueller)
13. 09:24 AM - Re: Something other than cables (Tim Willis)
14. 09:30 AM - Re: seat slings (Tim Willis)
15. 09:55 AM - Re: [piet] Something other then cables (Mike Whaley)
16. 10:04 AM - Re: Something other than cables (airlion@bellsouth.net)
17. 10:42 AM - Re: [piet] Something other then cables (Michael Perez)
18. 10:44 AM - Re: [piet] Something other then cables (Bill Church)
19. 12:58 PM - Re: seat slings (Will42)
20. 01:17 PM - streamlined flying wires, McWhyte's (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
21. 01:34 PM - no Brodhead '09 for 41CC (Oscar Zuniga)
22. 01:34 PM - Re: Air Camper and Sky Scout specs? ()
23. 02:50 PM - Clearance for aileron cables (Jim)
24. 03:10 PM - Re: [piet] Something other then cables (Michael Perez)
25. 04:35 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Gary Boothe)
26. 05:53 PM - Re: Flying an Idea (PatrickW)
27. 06:48 PM - Re: seat slings (Tim Willis)
28. 08:12 PM - Plywood (K5YAC)
29. 08:31 PM - Re: Plywood (Bill Church)
30. 09:00 PM - Re: Plywood (K5YAC)
31. 10:38 PM - Re: no Brodhead '09 for 41CC (Clif Dawson)
32. 10:38 PM - Re: Olds engine (Mike Tunnicliffe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol? |
http://www.timber.net.au/index.php/species-revised/dark-red-meranti.html
Some of you may remember this stuff as "Philipine Mahogany"
I've used quite a bit of it for various things in the past.
I wouldn't use it for a prop myself. I still have two pieces of
1" X 6" X 8', BOTH of which are warped to unusability.
Now you know why I still have them. :-)
If you do plan on using it better get it now. It is estimated
that it will be logged out by 2012.
White Oak( not Red ), Ash, Birch, Maple, Walnut would be
decent choices.
Clif
Lady, you want me to answer you if this old airplane
is safe to fly? Just how in the world do you think it
got to be this old?
Jim Tavenner
>
> Meranti is a semi hard wood from Malaysia , also called Lauan, or
> Malaysain Mohogony. Class 4 strength, what ever that means. The grain in
> usually interlocking and straight. Just wondering if it has ever been used
> in Aircraft construction. Every lumber yard here in Austrralia has this
> timber and the availability of clear, straight grained lumber is in
> abundance. I am confident in it's ability to be used in a propeller, but I
> am wondering if it has been used in any structral applications.
>
> Charley
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247182#247182
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:53:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol? |
I have used Meranti in furniture and it appears to consist of short
fibers rather than the long continuos grain found in Spruce or
Douglas Fir (Oregon). Eric Clutton, in his book "Propellor Making For
The Amateur", advises against using Meranti (Pg. 19) although he
doesn't give a reason. I made my prop from Tasmanian Oak and found it
very suitable and easy to work.
Cheers,
Rod Wooller
Wellsford N.Z.
Message 3
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| Subject: | Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision |
Not to keep fanning the flames here, but this is from the Continental
Overhaul manual for the O-200:
Weight of basic engine 170.18 lbs
Marvel-Schebler Carburetor 2.62 lbs
Two Bendix Magnetos (Slick's are lighter) 12.12 lbs
Eight shielded spark plugs 1.75 lbs
Shielded ignition harness (unshielded is lighter) 3.81 lbs
Carburetor air intake and filter assembly 3.12 lbs
Total Weight 193.60 lbs
This does not include exhaust, engine oil, starter or generator/alternator.
Starter and Generator, if using the old Delco Remy stuff that came with the
engine weighs 15.50 lbs for the starter and 10.12 for the generator, which
would bring the total weight to 219.22 lbs, but who needs all that stuff on
a Pietenpol? The new Sky-Tec stuff is considerably lighter. Their starter
for an O-200 is only 9.2 lbs, and a Plane Power gear driven alternator is
only 6.8 lbs, so the total weight of the engine with modern starter and
alternator would be 209.60 lbs.
Just wanted to set the record straight on weights here. We can talk about
reliability later.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision
Concerning the discussion a couple days ago about the weight of an O-200
compared to a Corvair, in the new June Sport Aviation is a Teledyne
Continental ad (page 73) for their new O200D (lighter weight model) which
they say weights 199 lbs and goes on to say that that is 25 lbs lighter than
the O200. That puts the O200 at 224 lbs. which I assume does not include
exhaust (and oil). When doing a preliminary W&B to figure out how long to
make the motor mount for my Corvair WW told me to figure 240 lbs. for my
engine ready to run including exhaust, starter, magneto, oil, and wood prop.
And concerning the crankshaft breakage problems interestingly enough in the
same magazine is an Ercoupe article with a picture of an Ercoupe in a bean
field the victim of a C-85 with a broken crank (page 57). Reading articles
like this in addition to articles concerning the Lycoming crankshaft class
action lawsuits:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/leadnews/lycoming_crankshaft_lawsuit_193160-
1.html
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/Lycoming_Crankshaft_Lawsuit_193841-1.
html
(give me a break, 5000 defective crankshafts in new engines people are
paying $25,000 to $40,000 for?), I am no more concerned about breaking a
nitrided Corvair crank with a 5th bearing than I am breaking the crank on an
O200 that I bought used and hope never had a prop strike.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol? |
Rod,
How 'bout a picture of your tasmanian oak prop?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Rod Wooller <rmwo@CLEAR.NET.NZ>
Sent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 5:12 am
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Has anyone ever used Maranti timber in their Pietenpol?
?
I have used Meranti in furniture and it appears to consist of short fibers rather
than the long continuos grain found in Spruce or Douglas Fir (Oregon). Eric
Clutton, in his book "Propellor Making For The Amateur", advises against using
Meranti (Pg. 19) although he doesn't give a reason. I made my prop from Tasmanian
Oak and found it very suitable and easy to work.?
Cheers,?
Rod Wooller?
Wellsford N.Z.?
?
?
?
Message 5
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I would be interested in several of the T-shirts too. How about some in
kids sizes??
Brian
SLC, UT
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Flying an Idea
We will definitely buy a couple. We've been gazing at that picture for
at least a year as the desktop on my home computer. We were without it
for a short time recently when I upgraded to a big honkin' widescreen
LCD; stretching the image to the 16:9 aspect ratio make it look a bit
off. Thankfully I remembered where I found the original
(WestCoastPiet...thanks Chris!), and now I get to look at in super
hi-res. I can almost make out Mike's grin. :) Thanks John.
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:51 PM, John Hofmann <jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com>
wrote:
Fellow Pietephiles:
As Brodhead, that other flyin in Wisconsin and the 80th Celebration fast
approach, I have started to design my T-Shirts which the "Bratmen of
Brodhead" will be sporting this year. I thought I would take a stab at
another design or two for the masses. Let me know if there is any
interest and I will put them up on CafePress and you can order as many
as you want to wear. Also I can customize the photo in the middle pretty
easily if you don't like Mike Cuy. I actually think he is okay
considering he is one of my greatest friends. Let me know what you think
or contact me off list at johnnyskyrocket@me.com
-john-
Message 6
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I have seen photos in my back issues of the old BPA newsletter of a couple
of piets using the Olds engine direct drive. I remember one was in
Australia where they call it a Rover engine, but can't remember where the
other one was.
Douwe
Message 7
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| Subject: | Something other then cables |
Has anyone used the airfoil shaped "wires" for the various cables on the wings
and tail? I see Aircraft Spruce sells such a thing. I have seen these streamlined
cables on some home-builts and wonder what the group thinks. I would imagine
they weigh more then cables, but I wonder if they are better for drag. I am
sure they cost big money. Any experience with these?
Message 8
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| Subject: | Something other then cable *LINK* |
Here is the manufacturer website:
-
http://www.steenaero.com/Products/flying_wires.cfm
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Something other than cables |
Michael,
That is a great idea. You should be able to pick up at least 15 or?20 knots. :O)?
But I am afraid with that change, I would have to place you into that dreaded
"dubious" category of pietenpol "like" airplanes.
Dan Heslper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 8:58 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Something other then cables
Has anyone used the airfoil shaped "wires" for the various cables on the wings
and tail? I see Aircraft Spruce sells such a thing. I have seen these streamlined
cables on some home-builts and wonder what the group thinks. I would imagine
they weigh more then cables, but I wonder if they are better for drag. I am
sure they cost big money. Any experience with these?
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Something other than cables |
-
HAA! I am open to be placed in any catagory anyone wishes, as long as I can
get this thing built and in the air!-
-
Those pieces are big money, but I wonder if an equivelent be be made from s
ome of the smaller steel streamlined stuff.
-
-
Michael,
That is a great idea. You should be able to pick up at least 15 or-20 kno
ts. :O)- But I am afraid with that change, I would have to place you into
that dreaded "dubious" category of pietenpol "like" airplanes.
Dan Heslper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 8:58 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Something other then cables
Has anyone used the airfoil shaped "wires" for the various cables on the wi
ngs and tail? I see Aircraft Spruce sells such a thing. I have seen these s
treamlined cables on some home-builts and wonder what the group thinks. I w
ould imagine they weigh more then cables, but I wonder if they are better f
or drag. I am sure they cost big money. Any experience with these?
Wanna slim down for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Something other than cables |
You are taking a chance on coming close to the edge of space with these typ
es of cables on your Piet.You may not be able to gain re-entry;-)=0A=0A=0Ad
o not archive=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Michae
l Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASen
t: Monday, June 8, 2009 11:30:20 AM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Somethin
g other than cables=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AHAA! I am open to be placed in any catago
ry anyone wishes, as long as I can get this thing built and in the air!-
=0A=0AThose pieces are big money, but I wonder if an equivelent be be made
from some of the smaller steel streamlined stuff.=0A=0A=0A-=0AMichael,=0A
=0AThat is a great idea. You should be able to pick up at least 15 or-20
knots. :O)- But I am afraid with that change, I would have to place you i
nto that dreaded "dubious" category of pietenpol "like" airplanes.=0A=0ADan
Heslper=0APoplar Grove, IL=0A=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Mich
ael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0AS
ent: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 8:58 am=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Something other the
n cables=0A=0A=0AHas anyone used the airfoil shaped "wires" for the various
cables on the wings and tail? I see Aircraft Spruce sells such a thing. I
have seen these streamlined cables on some home-builts and wonder what the
group thinks. I would imagine they weigh more then cables, but I wonder if
they are better for drag. I am sure they cost big money. Any experience wit
h these? =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AWanna slim do
wn for summer? Go to America Takes it Off to learn how. =0A=0A=0A" target
=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
=0A=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com=0Ablank rel=nofollow>http://ww
=========================0A
======
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Something other then cables |
A Piet decked out in streamlined flying wires would be an interesting sight.
Kind of like putting 20" chromed wheels on a Model T. :P
I would doubt the high cost of flying wires would justify the negligible
decrease in drag. If you were serious about decreasing drag there are most
cost effective steps you could take: for example, use the split axle gear,
cover the vees in fabric, and fabricate fairings for the fuselage to vee
intersection. Then wheel pants of course, and streamlined fairings for the
bungees/springs. You should probably fabricate fairings for the horizontal
stab/vertical stab intersections as well. Might want to add vortex
generators. You could always drop the seat bottoms and inch or two to reduce
the amount you stick out into the slipstream, and go with lo-profile
windscreens.
But in the end, it's a Piet.....whether you're cruising at a draggy 65mph or
an aerodynamically slippery 75mph, the world's going by pretty slowly. :P
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> Has anyone used the airfoil shaped "wires" for the various cables on the
> wings and tail? I see Aircraft Spruce sells such a thing. I have seen these
> streamlined cables on some home-builts and wonder what the group thinks. I
> would imagine they weigh more then cables, but I wonder if they are better
> for drag. I am sure they cost big money. Any experience with these?
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Something other than cables |
Michael,
You refer to "flying wires." They are classy, functional, an enhancement, all
good-- but expensive. If you either have the retail scratch or can buy them
right (ebay, etc.) go for it. But then you'll have to consider faired LG and
wheel pants to really get that speed advantage. Begin referring to your airspeed
as mach .1
As for me, yo, I have given up on "speed." I am looking for a set of those hubcaps
that spin and a big set of woofers for my boom box ;) Anybody have any crushed
velour?
Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with
its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and
more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to
insert much in the seat back.
Tim in central TX
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
>From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
>Sent: Jun 8, 2009 10:51 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables
>
>You are taking a chance on coming close to the edge of space with these types
of cables on your Piet.You may not be able to gain re-entry;-)
>
>
Message 14
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Will,
A friend here with a Heath told me that he got his "canvas" from a local upholstery
shop. You don't really want canvas or nylon, like a lawn chair. You want
the stuff they put in couches and easy chairs-- the stuff that is rubbery and
stretches. That is what I would use if I had room for a frame and such webbing.
Instead, as I metioned in my last note, I am going for some ply contour
and some contoured stiffer foam.
Tim in central TX
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Something other then cables |
I used to work for Steen Aero, the sole North American importer from whom
all these streamlined flying wires come into this country before going to
AS&S, Wicks, etc. While these things have impressive virtues and are vitally
important when used in the proper application, I wouldn't dream of using
them on a Pietenpol, or in fact on any plane where I didn't actually have to
use them!
First off, these wires are all custom-made in Scotland by Brunton's, with a
12+ week lead time because they are all essentially hand-crafted. If you
change something on your plane and a wire length changes beyond the ability
of the fittings to compensate, you have to buy a new piece, and they're NOT
returnable or refundable, unless the factory actually screwed up their
manufacture (that's rare). A set of wires and fittings for a typical 2-place
homebuilt biplane generally costs WELL north of $12,000, depending upon
exchange rates (which are much worse nowadays). Even just the tail wires for
a Piet would probably cost as much as most of the rest of the plane!
Also, there have been crashes caused by improper substitution of solid
streamlined flying wires in an aircraft that was originally designed for
regular round cables. Solid wires are much stiffer than cable, and when
improperly used, a steady vibration mode can occur. Where the cable will
just vibrate with no discernable effect, a solid wire will flex and focus
the shaking at "nodes" dependent upon the length of the wire, the loading,
and the frequency and waveform of the vibration. They then get metal fatigue
and eventually the wire fractures clean in half... usually at the worst time
possible!
Sometimes, these wires are necessary and vitally important, but in the case
of the Pietenpol, it just doesn't make much sense either cost-wise or
strength-wise or IMHO risk-wise. If I had a Skybolt, I'd certainly not
consider using anything but these, but then it was designed that way from
the start.
As for drag, well... if you really wanna clean up a Piet to go significantly
faster, you might try making it out of molded carbon fiber to get the weight
down, put a full canopy on it, switch to a cantilever wing with a new
airfoil, stuff 250 hp into it, and add retracts. You *might* break 100 mph!
-Mike
Mike Whaley
MerlinFAC@cfl.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Perez" <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 9:58 AM
Subject: [piet] Pietenpol-List: Something other then cables
> Has anyone used the airfoil shaped "wires" for the various cables on the
wings and tail? I see Aircraft Spruce sells such a thing. I have seen these
streamlined cables on some home-builts and wonder what the group thinks. I
would imagine they weigh more then cables, but I wonder if they are better
for drag. I am sure they cost big money. Any experience with these?
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Something other than cables |
tim, I used aluminum sheat to give me a little contour. It dropped my seat down
about 13/4 inches and is quite comfortable even without a seat pad. I will
probably go with tempurfoam 1 inch thick. Gardiner Mason. ps, I will try a seat
from auto zone to check the thickness
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
>
> Michael,
>
You refer to "flying wires." They are classy, functional, an enhancement, all
good-- but expensive. If you either have the retail scratch or can buy them
right (ebay, etc.) go for it. But then you'll have to consider faired LG and
wheel pants to really get that speed advantage. Begin referring to your
> airspeed as mach .1
>
As for me, yo, I have given up on "speed." I am looking for a set of those
hubcaps that spin and a big set of woofers for my boom box ;) Anybody have any
> crushed velour?
>
Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with
its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and
more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to
> insert much in the seat back.
>
> Tim in central TX
> do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
> >Sent: Jun 8, 2009 10:51 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables
> >
> >You are taking a chance on coming close to the edge of space with these types
> of cables on your Piet.You may not be able to gain re-entry;-)
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Something other then cables |
They do look nice and they would be different on a Pietenpol, but WOW! The cost!
Completely agree, not worth it! I had no idea these were THAT costly. Spend
as much on those as the rest of the plane! Still, they were new to me so I thought
I would try to gather some intell. on them. Thanks group.
Message 18
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| Subject: | Something other then cables |
Anyone thinking about using streamline flying wires on the Piet should
maybe take a look at this webpage:
http://www.bowersflybaby.com/safety/hinton.htm
It has to do with a Flybaby that crashed, that also happened to use
streamline flying wires (as opposed to the cables called for in the
Flybaby plans). Gotta be careful whenever straying from the tried and
true.
Bill C.
Message 19
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Hey Tim; I'm in central Texas also. Where are you? Not sure about your e-mail address
but here is mine.
will@cctc.net
Will
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | streamlined flying wires, McWhyte's |
I am friends with Delmar Benjamin's girlfriend (prior to this one) Anne Byers (and
a free-lance EAA videographer) and she told me that after some air show seasons
on the circuit with his Gee Bee R2 that they had the flying wires x-rayed to see
if it was okay to fly the next season. Kermit
Weeks now has the airplane at his Fantasy of Flight museum in Florida and after
1500 flying hours on those streamlined
struts I would think he probably would have already invested in a brand new set.
(totally an assumption though)
Lowell Bayles died in a Gee Bee Z in 1931 trying to break a speed record and though
it sounds like aileron flutter/spar failure, when those flying wires
setup a nasty harmonic going that fast they can self-destruct pretty quickly too.
Yikes !!!!!!!!!!
>From Wikipedia:
On December 5 1931 , Bayles tried again, diving into the course from 1,000 feet
(305 m) and leveling off at 150 feet (46 m) as rules allowed. Travelling over
300 miles per hour (483 km/h), 75 feet (23 m) from the ground, the Model Z suddenly
pitched up, the right wing folded beyond the flying wire attachment point,
most likely due to aileron flutter stressing the wing spar and causing it
to fail. The plane crashed alongside of a railroad track in a huge ball of flame
and smoke. Lowell Bayles body was thrown 300 feet (91 m) from the disintegrated
plane.
Message 21
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| Subject: | no Brodhead '09 for 41CC |
I've received several very nice emails from you folks encouraging me
to take 41CC to Brodhead this year. As much as I'd love to go, and
this year I actually have my wife's approval, I have *zero* vacation
time left from work and I can't afford to take the time off without
pay. So... it doesn't look like I'll be able to make it.
My wife and I just got back from a scuba diving trip to Roatan,
Honduras. We arrived two days after the 7.1 earthquake hit near the
island and felt a few aftershocks while we were there, but there isn't
very much visible damage because most of the buildings are very simple
and are of wood frame construction. The damage to the reef was very
noticeable though... but also part of natural occurrences in this
geologically active area. As close as Honduras is to Belize, I half
way thought I might run into "The Fisherman", but didn't ;o) Air
tours of the island are given in an Air Cam on amphib floats, but I'll
bet it would be just as much fun in a Piet if there were one on the
island. A heck of a lot cheaper than the Air Cam tours are, too.
Let's see... I could fill the fuselage and wings of 41CC with empty
milk jugs and ping-pong balls, fly it down through Mexico and Central
America to the Honduras mainland, then it's just a short 40 mile hop
overwater to Roatan...
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Air Camper and Sky Scout specs? |
Ryan,
That would be Me, My daughter and fuel.
I would have to do a mock up to be sure how much I would need to widen it but I
am pretty sure the standard 20 inches wouldn't cut it. I was wondering if you
couldn't just basically add a few inches in the middle of the wing and fuse without
affecting the strength. What is the max someone has successfully widened
a Piet?
Rodney
---- Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> Rodney,
>
> Well, people have widened the fuse. Usually it's an inch or 2. 6 to 10
> inches would be a bit excessive.
>
> You say you are 6 foot tall. That's not too bad to fit into a Piet. But
> about the "stout"....you question the performance with 400lbs on board. Are
> you referring to just yourself there, yourself and a pax, the total
> payload....?
>
> Ryan
>
> On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:50 PM, <r.r.hall@cox.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > I am new to this list and about to begin building my first airplane. Right
> > now I have a VW type 4 engine being converted for flywheel drive. It should
> > put out between 60 and 70hp when complete.
> >
> > Two of the designs I have been looking at are the Air Camper and Sky Scout.
> > One problem I have with the design is I am a bit "stout" and 6" tall so I am
> > worried about fitting in the cockpit and airplane performance with 60-70hp
> > and around 400lbs onboard. Anyone have any experience with widening the
> > fuselage 6-10 inches and performance with that kind of horsepower and load?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rodney Hall
> >
> > Really like the T-shirt design for Brodhead.
Message 23
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| Subject: | Clearance for aileron cables |
Jack and group,
I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and the back
headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel so it is
1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the headrest of the
front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between instrument panel
and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the aileron cables as
they run up to the center section of the wing?
I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock myself
into a problem. I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Message 24
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| Subject: | Something other then cables |
I never thought about the rigid flying wire directly transferring shock loads to
the fitting when not in tension. At least the cable gives, saving the fitting.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Clearance for aileron cables |
Jim,
You will probably have to figure out how much tilt-back you are going to
have on the cabanes, first. I think I am a little heavier than some, and am
planning on 4" tilt, with plans length cabanes. Some 1x2 pine and some
plywood to simulate the center section should work for a mock up to figure
out where those cables are coming thru.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
Jack and group,
I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and
the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel
so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the
headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between
instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the
aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing?
I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock
myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Flying an Idea |
Better print up a bunch of 'em. :-)
Nice work.
- Pat
--------
Patrick
XL/650/Corvair
N63PZ (reserved)
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Message 27
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Thanks, Gardiner. My seat height and general construction are fixed. I think
the aluminum you suggest would work well. Right now I will be fooling around
with 1.5mm plywood to get the contour, and then fill the gap with marine foam.
That will give me simple curves in one plane (fore-to-aft), then I am planning
hip-hugging right-to-left with that stuff they put down around jungle gyms
and the like. It doesn't give much, and is very light. One piece of that will
be my only back padding except for some Insulfoam (like football shoulder pads)
in the lumbar region (where I already have a broken vertabra). It should
barely fit there and still allow me to slip into the plane.
I have fore-to-aft fit problems, as Corky can attest. He made the fuxe 3" wider
than plans and my elbows fit inside, which the standard plans do not allow.
Plenty of left-right butt room, too.
For the final padding on top, I got something like the tempufoam from Wicks (1",
blue foam, as I recall) and that makes an enormous difference, but I need more
contour first.
If the ply doesn't work for me, I will look into aluminum.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: airlion@bellsouth.net
>Sent: Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables
>
>
> tim, I used aluminum sheat to give me a little contour. It dropped my seat down
about 13/4 inches and is quite comfortable even without a seat pad. I will
probably go with tempurfoam 1 inch thick. Gardiner Mason. ps, I will try a seat
from auto zone to check the thickness
>From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>>
> (message edited)
>
>Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with
>its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and
>more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to
>> insert much in the seat back.
>>
>> Tim in central TX
>> do not archive
Message 28
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Pieters, a question on plywood.
Would anyone mind providing some idea on how much plywood is necessary? I know
it kind of depends on fuselage type, wing construction, length, width, etc.
I've looked over the plans and believe that I've figured it properly, but since
I am hoping to get all the big stuff on my next order I would like to know how
much ply others have required. I'm planning to build the long fuse, and if
anything I may widen it a couple of inches. Not sure that is necessary at this
point. I've read some discussion recently on a longer wing, but I think I'll
probably just stick to the plans.
The way I figure it, I'm going to need...
1 sheet 1/16" x 4' x 8' mahogany for LE sheeting (should have some extra here)
2 sheets 1/8" x 4' x 8' mahogany for sides, wing center, turtle deck, gussets,
seats
2 sheets 1/4" x 4' x 4' birch for the floor
I think this ought to be close. I may perhaps need a bit more 1/8" ply, but I
think I can pull it off if I utilize the proper dimensions. Maybe I'm way off?
Looking for confirmation... comments or suggestions.
--------
Mark - working on wings
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Mark,
Sounds about right. But I think you're going to need another 4' x 4' sheet of 1/16"
ply for your wing rib gussets.
Bill C.
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Message 30
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Right Bill, I forgot to mention that I've already built my wing ribs.
Thanks for the reply.
--------
Mark - working on wings
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: no Brodhead '09 for 41CC |
Well, maybe you could buy a whole bunch of those emergency
tire inflation cans. You know, the ones with liquid rubber
in them. Let fly inside the wings with them covering everything
in there with sticky sealant thus waterproofing them. No need
for ping pong balls! :-)
Clif
Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
> Let's see... I could fill the fuselage and wings of 41CC with empty
> milk jugs and ping-pong balls, fly it down through Mexico and Central
> America to the Honduras mainland, then it's just a short 40 mile hop
> overwater to Roatan...
>
> Oscar Zuniga
Message 32
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Hi, I would also be interested to find out more as the Rover engine is what
I intend to fit to my machine.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douwe Blumberg" <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 1:26 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Olds engine
> <douweblumberg@earthlink.net>
>
> I have seen photos in my back issues of the old BPA newsletter of a couple
> of piets using the Olds engine direct drive. I remember one was in
> Australia where they call it a Rover engine, but can't remember where the
> other one was.
>
> Douwe
>
>
>
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