Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:49 AM - Re: seat slings (airlion@bellsouth.net)
2. 06:49 AM - Re: seat slings (airlion@bellsouth.net)
3. 07:13 AM - Fly-in (Lawrence Williams)
4. 09:05 AM - Clearance for aileron cables (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 12:41 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads (Tim Willis)
6. 04:13 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Gene & Tammy)
7. 06:25 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness (Tim Willis)
8. 06:28 PM - front seat shoulder harness attach (helspersew@aol.com)
9. 06:45 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness (Tim Willis)
10. 08:17 PM - Re: front seat shoulder harness attach (Ameet Savant)
11. 09:08 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Jim)
12. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads (Jim)
13. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Jim)
14. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision (Jim)
Message 1
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-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
>
Thanks, Gardiner. My seat height and general construction are fixed. I think
the aluminum you suggest would work well. Right now I will be fooling around
with 1.5mm plywood to get the contour, and then fill the gap with marine foam.
That will give me simple curves in one plane (fore-to-aft), then I am planning
hip-hugging right-to-left with that stuff they put down around jungle gyms and
the like. It doesn't give much, and is very light. One piece of that will be
my only back padding except for some Insulfoam (like football shoulder pads) in
the lumbar region (where I already have a broken vertabra). It should barely
> fit there and still allow me to slip into the plane.
>
I have fore-to-aft fit problems, as Corky can attest. He made the fuxe 3" wider
than plans and my elbows fit inside, which the standard plans do not allow.
> Plenty of left-right butt room, too.
>
> For the final padding on top, I got something like the tempufoam from Wicks (1",
> blue foam, as I recall) and that makes an enormous difference, but I need more
> contour first.
>
> If the ply doesn't work for me, I will look into aluminum.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: airlion@bellsouth.net
> >Sent: Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables
> >
> >
> > tim, I used aluminum sheat to give me a little contour. It dropped my seat
> down about 13/4 inches and is quite comfortable even without a seat pad. I will
> probably go with tempurfoam 1 inch thick. Gardiner Mason. ps, I will try a seat
> from auto zone to check the thickness
> >From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> >>
> > (message edited)
> >
> >Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with
> >its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and
> >more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to
> >> insert much in the seat back.
> >>
> >> Tim in central TX
> >> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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Tim, I don't think the plywood will work cause it might break. The aluminum won't
break. It is screwed down along the back ledge and angled over the front
ledge and screwed along the front giving me plenty of contour. I do have a gap
at the bottom of the contour and have not worked that out yet. I have the long
fuse and 2 inches wider. It is quite roomy. Gardiner.
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
>
Thanks, Gardiner. My seat height and general construction are fixed. I think
the aluminum you suggest would work well. Right now I will be fooling around
with 1.5mm plywood to get the contour, and then fill the gap with marine foam.
That will give me simple curves in one plane (fore-to-aft), then I am planning
hip-hugging right-to-left with that stuff they put down around jungle gyms and
the like. It doesn't give much, and is very light. One piece of that will be
my only back padding except for some Insulfoam (like football shoulder pads) in
the lumbar region (where I already have a broken vertabra). It should barely
> fit there and still allow me to slip into the plane.
>
I have fore-to-aft fit problems, as Corky can attest. He made the fuxe 3" wider
than plans and my elbows fit inside, which the standard plans do not allow.
> Plenty of left-right butt room, too.
>
> For the final padding on top, I got something like the tempufoam from Wicks (1",
> blue foam, as I recall) and that makes an enormous difference, but I need more
> contour first.
>
> If the ply doesn't work for me, I will look into aluminum.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: airlion@bellsouth.net
> >Sent: Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables
> >
> >
> > tim, I used aluminum sheat to give me a little contour. It dropped my seat
> down about 13/4 inches and is quite comfortable even without a seat pad. I will
> probably go with tempurfoam 1 inch thick. Gardiner Mason. ps, I will try a seat
> from auto zone to check the thickness
> >From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
> >>
> > (message edited)
> >
> >Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with
> >its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and
> >more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to
> >> insert much in the seat back.
> >>
> >> Tim in central TX
> >> do not archive
>
>
>
>
>
Message 3
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One last blast for our fly-in this week-end.
-
For some reason my last try didn't make it onto the list.....hope this one
does!
-
This Friday evening we'll be having a RRQ, Saturday morning will be a $5 pa
ncake breakfast.
-
Lots of taildraggers and a few biplanes are expected.
-
Pietenpol guys will be treated especially well!
-
We are located just to the east of Little Rock, AR at 1AR9. Details are on
the Country Air Estates website.
-
I know there are some Pietenpol enthusiasts in the AR, TN, MO, OK, TX area
that are within striking distance so please come and support us. This will
be an annual affair and we are hoping to attract some of the Bartlesville c
rowd now that their biplane fly-in is defunct.
-
Larry W.
-
(859)855-5124=0A=0A=0A
Message 4
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| Subject: | Clearance for aileron cables |
Jim;
You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables
fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder
harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html
Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html
there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie
Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads |
Jim,
I think several of the Piets have fairleads under the instrument panel to route
the aileron cables. Some are just to clear a particular instrument or the like,
but some accommodate your considerations. I recall someone, maybe more than
one fellow, telling me that there was a little interference sound and drag
while parked on the ground, but once fired up and underway, there was no apparent
drag on the controls.
Pitch in here guys, and tell him what you have done. Delrin?
Tim in central TX
Jack and group,
I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and
the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel
so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the
headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between
instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the
aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing?
I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock
myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance for aileron cables |
Oscar, interesting way to attach a shoulder harness for the front cockpit.
What happens in a crash and the wing is torn off or even twisted around?
I'm really interested in finding a safe way to install a shoulder harness in
my piet.
Thanks
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:02 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
>
>
> Jim;
>
> You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables
> fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder
> harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html
>
> Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html
> there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie
> Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
05:53:00
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness |
Gene & Tammy in beautiful Tennessee,
Noted builder Bill Rewey uses something similar for the passenger shoulder harness.
I have seen Oscar's Piet and also Bill's, and think I recall a few others
with somewhat similar arrangements. Last year I discussed your points with
some builders. There is an excellent solution in the UK design (have you seen
that?) but it requires some clearances between the backs of the instruments,
the passenger seatback, and the pilot's windshield. As much as I would like it,
it doesn't look like it would fit in my Piet.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
>Sent: Jun 9, 2009 5:58 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
>
>
>Oscar, interesting way to attach a shoulder harness for the front cockpit.
>What happens in a crash and the wing is torn off or even twisted around?
>I'm really interested in finding a safe way to install a shoulder harness in
>my piet.
>Thanks
>Gene
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:02 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
>
>
>>
>>
>> Jim;
>>
>> You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables
>> fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder
>> harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html
>>
>> Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html
>> there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie
>> Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>05:53:00
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | front seat shoulder harness attach |
Here is one way of doing it.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness |
Gene & Tammy,
Attached is a pic of the passenger shoulder harness of builder Dan Helsper, based
I believe on the UK assy. His pic is clearer than the UK pix I've seen, and
his fab looks a bit more robust. Kudos to him and the British builders as well.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
>Sent: Jun 9, 2009 5:58 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
>
>
>Oscar, interesting way to attach a shoulder harness for the front cockpit.
>What happens in a crash and the wing is torn off or even twisted around?
>I'm really interested in finding a safe way to install a shoulder harness in
>my piet.
>Thanks
>Gene
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:02 AM
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
>
>
>>
>>
>> Jim;
>>
>> You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables
>> fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder
>> harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html
>>
>> Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html
>> there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie
>> Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up.
>>
>> Oscar Zuniga
>> Air Camper NX41CC
>> San Antonio, TX
>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>05:53:00
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: front seat shoulder harness attach |
Dan,
Novice question- In a sudden forward motion (as imparted in a crash) what is keeping
this entire assembly from pivoting forward? The member shown in photo 18
and 24 seems to take on the job, but it is anchored to the fuselage using one
bolt. Could that fitting pivot around the bolt inward?
Regards
Ameet
--- On Tue, 6/9/09, helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com> wrote:
> From: helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com>
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat shoulder harness attach
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 8:26 PM
>
> Here is one way of doing it.
>
>
>
> Dan Helsper
>
> Poplar Grove, IL
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance for aileron cables |
Oscar,
Thanks for all the pictures. The one looking up underneath the instrument panel
helps. This Piets aileron cables are really close to the front seat headrest.
I may have to use a couple of extra pulleys to route the cables if I go ahead
and lean back the front pit headrest.
Jim
Do not archive
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
On Jun 9, 2009, taildrags@hotmail.com wrote:
Jim;
You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables
fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder
harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html
Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html
there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie
Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads |
Thanks Tim; Depending on how severe the turn in the cables has to be I will
either use a couple of extra pulleys or just fiarleads if the change in direction
is fairly small.
Jim
Do not archive
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
On Jun 9, 2009, timothywillis@earthlink.net wrote:
Jim,
I think several of the Piets have fairleads under the instrument panel to route
the aileron cables. Some are just to clear a particular instrument or the like,
but some accommodate your considerations. I recall someone, maybe more than
one fellow, telling me that there was a little interference sound and drag
while parked on the ground, but once fired up and underway, there was no apparent
drag on the controls.
Pitch in here guys, and tell him what you have done. Delrin?
Tim in central TX
Jack and group,
I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and
the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel
so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the
headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between
instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the
aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing?
I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock
myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Clearance for aileron cables |
Gary you are skinny as a rail compared to me. If all the welding is successful
here in the next week I may go back and finish the center section to the
point I can just mount it temporarily to check for aileron cable routing. I
will send you some pictures if everything works out; if not you will probably
hear my whineing all the way to Cool.
Jim
Do not archive
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
On Jun 8, 2009, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote:
Jim,
You will probably have to figure out how much tilt-back you are going to
have on the cabanes, first. I think I am a little heavier than some, and am
planning on 4" tilt, with plans length cabanes. Some 1x2 pine and some
plywood to simulate the center section should work for a mock up to figure
out where those cables are coming thru.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables
Jack and group,
I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and
the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel
so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the
headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between
instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the
aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing?
I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock
myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision |
Jack thanks for all the information; I will log it in my folders for future
information/comparisons. When I get my Corvair completely done (need rear
oil housing and oil sump bent for deep pan) I will try and get similiar weights
so we can all have real numbers for both.
Jim
Do not archive
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
On Jun 8, 2009, pietflyr@bellsouth.net wrote:
Not to keep fanning the flames here, but
this is from the Continental Overhaul manual for the O-200:
Weight of basic engine 170.18
lbs
Marvel-Schebler Carburetor
2.62 lbs
Two Bendix Magnetos (Slicks are
lighter)
12.12 lbs
Eight shielded spark plugs
1.75 lbs
Shielded ignition harness (unshielded is
lighter) 3.81 lbs
Carburetor air intake and filter assembly
3.12 lbs
Total Weight 193.60
lbs
This does not include exhaust, engine oil,
starter or generator/alternator. Starter and Generator, if using the old
Delco Remy stuff that came with the engine weighs 15.50 lbs for the starter and
10.12 for the generator, which would bring the total weight to 219.22 lbs, but
who needs all that stuff on a Pietenpol? The new Sky-Tec stuff is considerably
lighter. Their starter for an O-200 is only 9.2 lbs, and a Plane Power
gear driven alternator is only 6.8 lbs, so the total weight of the engine with
modern starter and alternator would be 209.60 lbs.
Just wanted to set the record straight on
weights here. We can talk about reliability later.
Jack
Phillips
NX899JP
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland
Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009
10:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair
vs. O-200 weight comparision
Concerning the discussion a couple days ago about the weight of an
O-200 compared to a Corvair, in the new June Sport Aviation is a Teledyne
Continental ad (page 73) for their new O200D (lighter weight model) which they
say weights 199 lbs and goes on to say that that is 25 lbs lighter than the
O200. That puts the O200 at 224 lbs. which I assume does not include exhaust
(and oil). When doing a preliminary W&B to figure out how long to make the
motor mount for my Corvair WW told me to figure 240 lbs. for my engine ready to
run including exhaust, starter, magneto, oil, and wood prop.
And concerning the crankshaft breakage problems interestingly enough in the
same magazine is an Ercoupe article with a picture of an Ercoupe in a bean
field the victim of a C-85 with a broken crank (page 57). Reading articles like
this in addition to
articles concerning the Lycoming crankshaft class action lawsuits:
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/leadnews/lycoming_crankshaft_lawsuit_193160-1.html
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/Lycoming_Crankshaft_Lawsuit_193841-1.html
(give me a break, 5000 defective crankshafts in new engines people are paying
$25,000 to $40,000 for?), I am no more concerned about breaking a nitrided
Corvair crank with a 5th bearing than I am breaking the crank on an O200 that I
bought used and hope never had a prop strike.
Rick
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
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