Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Tue 06/09/09


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:49 AM - Re: seat slings (airlion@bellsouth.net)
     2. 06:49 AM - Re: seat slings (airlion@bellsouth.net)
     3. 07:13 AM - Fly-in (Lawrence Williams)
     4. 09:05 AM - Clearance for aileron cables (Oscar Zuniga)
     5. 12:41 PM - Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads (Tim Willis)
     6. 04:13 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Gene & Tammy)
     7. 06:25 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness (Tim Willis)
     8. 06:28 PM - front seat shoulder harness attach (helspersew@aol.com)
     9. 06:45 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness (Tim Willis)
    10. 08:17 PM - Re: front seat shoulder harness attach (Ameet Savant)
    11. 09:08 PM - Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Jim)
    12. 09:10 PM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads (Jim)
    13. 09:17 PM - Re: Re: Clearance for aileron cables (Jim)
    14. 09:20 PM - Re: Re: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision (Jim)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:49:58 AM PST US
    From: airlion@bellsouth.net
    Subject: Re: seat slings
    -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > Thanks, Gardiner. My seat height and general construction are fixed. I think the aluminum you suggest would work well. Right now I will be fooling around with 1.5mm plywood to get the contour, and then fill the gap with marine foam. That will give me simple curves in one plane (fore-to-aft), then I am planning hip-hugging right-to-left with that stuff they put down around jungle gyms and the like. It doesn't give much, and is very light. One piece of that will be my only back padding except for some Insulfoam (like football shoulder pads) in the lumbar region (where I already have a broken vertabra). It should barely > fit there and still allow me to slip into the plane. > I have fore-to-aft fit problems, as Corky can attest. He made the fuxe 3" wider than plans and my elbows fit inside, which the standard plans do not allow. > Plenty of left-right butt room, too. > > For the final padding on top, I got something like the tempufoam from Wicks (1", > blue foam, as I recall) and that makes an enormous difference, but I need more > contour first. > > If the ply doesn't work for me, I will look into aluminum. > > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- > >From: airlion@bellsouth.net > >Sent: Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables > > > > > > tim, I used aluminum sheat to give me a little contour. It dropped my seat > down about 13/4 inches and is quite comfortable even without a seat pad. I will > probably go with tempurfoam 1 inch thick. Gardiner Mason. ps, I will try a seat > from auto zone to check the thickness > >From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > >> > > (message edited) > > > >Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with > >its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and > >more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to > >> insert much in the seat back. > >> > >> Tim in central TX > >> do not archive > > > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:49:58 AM PST US
    From: airlion@bellsouth.net
    Subject: Re: seat slings
    Tim, I don't think the plywood will work cause it might break. The aluminum won't break. It is screwed down along the back ledge and angled over the front ledge and screwed along the front giving me plenty of contour. I do have a gap at the bottom of the contour and have not worked that out yet. I have the long fuse and 2 inches wider. It is quite roomy. Gardiner. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > Thanks, Gardiner. My seat height and general construction are fixed. I think the aluminum you suggest would work well. Right now I will be fooling around with 1.5mm plywood to get the contour, and then fill the gap with marine foam. That will give me simple curves in one plane (fore-to-aft), then I am planning hip-hugging right-to-left with that stuff they put down around jungle gyms and the like. It doesn't give much, and is very light. One piece of that will be my only back padding except for some Insulfoam (like football shoulder pads) in the lumbar region (where I already have a broken vertabra). It should barely > fit there and still allow me to slip into the plane. > I have fore-to-aft fit problems, as Corky can attest. He made the fuxe 3" wider than plans and my elbows fit inside, which the standard plans do not allow. > Plenty of left-right butt room, too. > > For the final padding on top, I got something like the tempufoam from Wicks (1", > blue foam, as I recall) and that makes an enormous difference, but I need more > contour first. > > If the ply doesn't work for me, I will look into aluminum. > > Tim in central TX > > -----Original Message----- > >From: airlion@bellsouth.net > >Sent: Jun 8, 2009 11:56 AM > >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Something other than cables > > > > > > tim, I used aluminum sheat to give me a little contour. It dropped my seat > down about 13/4 inches and is quite comfortable even without a seat pad. I will > probably go with tempurfoam 1 inch thick. Gardiner Mason. ps, I will try a seat > from auto zone to check the thickness > >From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> > >> > > (message edited) > > > >Seriously, I am trying to put a little contour in my seat. Right now even with > >its padding and my far too ample padding, the seat feels less like plywood and > >more like a concrete block. There is just not a lot of room fore-to-aft to > >> insert much in the seat back. > >> > >> Tim in central TX > >> do not archive > > > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 07:13:01 AM PST US
    From: Lawrence Williams <lnawms@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Fly-in
    One last blast for our fly-in this week-end. - For some reason my last try didn't make it onto the list.....hope this one does! - This Friday evening we'll be having a RRQ, Saturday morning will be a $5 pa ncake breakfast. - Lots of taildraggers and a few biplanes are expected. - Pietenpol guys will be treated especially well! - We are located just to the east of Little Rock, AR at 1AR9. Details are on the Country Air Estates website. - I know there are some Pietenpol enthusiasts in the AR, TN, MO, OK, TX area that are within striking distance so please come and support us. This will be an annual affair and we are hoping to attract some of the Bartlesville c rowd now that their biplane fly-in is defunct. - Larry W. - (859)855-5124=0A=0A=0A


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:05:58 AM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Clearance for aileron cables
    Jim; You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 5


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    Time: 12:41:49 PM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads
    Jim, I think several of the Piets have fairleads under the instrument panel to route the aileron cables. Some are just to clear a particular instrument or the like, but some accommodate your considerations. I recall someone, maybe more than one fellow, telling me that there was a little interference sound and drag while parked on the ground, but once fired up and underway, there was no apparent drag on the controls. Pitch in here guys, and tell him what you have done. Delrin? Tim in central TX Jack and group, I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing? I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:13:12 PM PST US
    From: "Gene & Tammy" <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net>
    Subject: Re: Clearance for aileron cables
    Oscar, interesting way to attach a shoulder harness for the front cockpit. What happens in a crash and the wing is torn off or even twisted around? I'm really interested in finding a safe way to install a shoulder harness in my piet. Thanks Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables > > > Jim; > > You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables > fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder > harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html > > Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html > there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie > Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:53:00


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:25:26 PM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness
    Gene & Tammy in beautiful Tennessee, Noted builder Bill Rewey uses something similar for the passenger shoulder harness. I have seen Oscar's Piet and also Bill's, and think I recall a few others with somewhat similar arrangements. Last year I discussed your points with some builders. There is an excellent solution in the UK design (have you seen that?) but it requires some clearances between the backs of the instruments, the passenger seatback, and the pilot's windshield. As much as I would like it, it doesn't look like it would fit in my Piet. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> >Sent: Jun 9, 2009 5:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables > > >Oscar, interesting way to attach a shoulder harness for the front cockpit. >What happens in a crash and the wing is torn off or even twisted around? >I'm really interested in finding a safe way to install a shoulder harness in >my piet. >Thanks >Gene >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> >To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:02 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables > > >> >> >> Jim; >> >> You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables >> fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder >> harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html >> >> Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html >> there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie >> Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Air Camper NX41CC >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >05:53:00 > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:28:37 PM PST US
    Subject: front seat shoulder harness attach
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Here is one way of doing it. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:45:05 PM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: Clearance for aileron cables-- passenger harness
    Gene & Tammy, Attached is a pic of the passenger shoulder harness of builder Dan Helsper, based I believe on the UK assy. His pic is clearer than the UK pix I've seen, and his fab looks a bit more robust. Kudos to him and the British builders as well. Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: Gene & Tammy <zharvey@bentoncountycable.net> >Sent: Jun 9, 2009 5:58 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables > > >Oscar, interesting way to attach a shoulder harness for the front cockpit. >What happens in a crash and the wing is torn off or even twisted around? >I'm really interested in finding a safe way to install a shoulder harness in >my piet. >Thanks >Gene >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com> >To: "Pietenpol List" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com> >Sent: Tuesday, June 09, 2009 11:02 AM >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables > > >> >> >> Jim; >> >> You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables >> fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder >> harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html >> >> Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html >> there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie >> Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Air Camper NX41CC >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> >> >> >> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >05:53:00 > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:17:50 PM PST US
    From: Ameet Savant <ameetsavant@yahoo.com>
    Subject: Re: front seat shoulder harness attach
    Dan, Novice question- In a sudden forward motion (as imparted in a crash) what is keeping this entire assembly from pivoting forward? The member shown in photo 18 and 24 seems to take on the job, but it is anchored to the fuselage using one bolt. Could that fitting pivot around the bolt inward? Regards Ameet --- On Tue, 6/9/09, helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com> wrote: > From: helspersew@aol.com <helspersew@aol.com> > Subject: Pietenpol-List: front seat shoulder harness attach > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, June 9, 2009, 8:26 PM > > Here is one way of doing it. > > > > Dan Helsper > > Poplar Grove, IL


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:08:52 PM PST US
    From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: Clearance for aileron cables
    Oscar, Thanks for all the pictures. The one looking up underneath the instrument panel helps. This Piets aileron cables are really close to the front seat headrest. I may have to use a couple of extra pulleys to route the cables if I go ahead and lean back the front pit headrest. Jim Do not archive Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 9, 2009, taildrags@hotmail.com wrote: Jim; You can get some idea of how the cabane brace wires and aileron cables fit my Piet by looking at the pictures of my front cockpit shoulder harness attach, here: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/harness.html Also, on this page: http://www.flysquirrel.net/piets/piets3.html there is a picture taken looking up under the instrument panel of Ernie Moreno's Piet that may also help you see how the cables end up. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:10:53 PM PST US
    From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List Digest: aileron cable leads
    Thanks Tim; Depending on how severe the turn in the cables has to be I will either use a couple of extra pulleys or just fiarleads if the change in direction is fairly small. Jim Do not archive Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 9, 2009, timothywillis@earthlink.net wrote: Jim, I think several of the Piets have fairleads under the instrument panel to route the aileron cables. Some are just to clear a particular instrument or the like, but some accommodate your considerations. I recall someone, maybe more than one fellow, telling me that there was a little interference sound and drag while parked on the ground, but once fired up and underway, there was no apparent drag on the controls. Pitch in here guys, and tell him what you have done. Delrin? Tim in central TX Jack and group, I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing? I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:17:08 PM PST US
    From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: Clearance for aileron cables
    Gary you are skinny as a rail compared to me. If all the welding is successful here in the next week I may go back and finish the center section to the point I can just mount it temporarily to check for aileron cable routing. I will send you some pictures if everything works out; if not you will probably hear my whineing all the way to Cool. Jim Do not archive Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 8, 2009, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote: Jim, You will probably have to figure out how much tilt-back you are going to have on the cabanes, first. I think I am a little heavier than some, and am planning on 4" tilt, with plans length cabanes. Some 1x2 pine and some plywood to simulate the center section should work for a mock up to figure out where those cables are coming thru. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Clearance for aileron cables Jack and group, I have a question though about the space between the instrument panel and the back headrest of the front cockpit. I have slanted my instrument panel so it is 1 inch forward at its top and I was looking at leaning back the headrest of the front cockpit. That would leave only a 5 inch space between instrument panel and frnt cockpit headrest at the top; will this clear the aileron cables as they run up to the center section of the wing? I don't have my center section ready to mount yet and don't want to lock myself into a problem. I would appreciate any comments. Thanks, Jim Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:20:00 PM PST US
    From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision
    Jack thanks for all the information; I will log it in my folders for future information/comparisons. When I get my Corvair completely done (need rear oil housing and oil sump bent for deep pan) I will try and get similiar weights so we can all have real numbers for both. Jim Do not archive Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA On Jun 8, 2009, pietflyr@bellsouth.net wrote: Not to keep fanning the flames here, but this is from the Continental Overhaul manual for the O-200: Weight of basic engine 170.18 lbs Marvel-Schebler Carburetor 2.62 lbs Two Bendix Magnetos (Slicks are lighter) 12.12 lbs Eight shielded spark plugs 1.75 lbs Shielded ignition harness (unshielded is lighter) 3.81 lbs Carburetor air intake and filter assembly 3.12 lbs Total Weight 193.60 lbs This does not include exhaust, engine oil, starter or generator/alternator. Starter and Generator, if using the old Delco Remy stuff that came with the engine weighs 15.50 lbs for the starter and 10.12 for the generator, which would bring the total weight to 219.22 lbs, but who needs all that stuff on a Pietenpol? The new Sky-Tec stuff is considerably lighter. Their starter for an O-200 is only 9.2 lbs, and a Plane Power gear driven alternator is only 6.8 lbs, so the total weight of the engine with modern starter and alternator would be 209.60 lbs. Just wanted to set the record straight on weights here. We can talk about reliability later. Jack Phillips NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Holland Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 10:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair vs. O-200 weight comparision Concerning the discussion a couple days ago about the weight of an O-200 compared to a Corvair, in the new June Sport Aviation is a Teledyne Continental ad (page 73) for their new O200D (lighter weight model) which they say weights 199 lbs and goes on to say that that is 25 lbs lighter than the O200. That puts the O200 at 224 lbs. which I assume does not include exhaust (and oil). When doing a preliminary W&B to figure out how long to make the motor mount for my Corvair WW told me to figure 240 lbs. for my engine ready to run including exhaust, starter, magneto, oil, and wood prop. And concerning the crankshaft breakage problems interestingly enough in the same magazine is an Ercoupe article with a picture of an Ercoupe in a bean field the victim of a C-85 with a broken crank (page 57). Reading articles like this in addition to articles concerning the Lycoming crankshaft class action lawsuits: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/leadnews/lycoming_crankshaft_lawsuit_193160-1.html http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/briefs/Lycoming_Crankshaft_Lawsuit_193841-1.html (give me a break, 5000 defective crankshafts in new engines people are paying $25,000 to $40,000 for?), I am no more concerned about breaking a nitrided Corvair crank with a 5th bearing than I am breaking the crank on an O200 that I bought used and hope never had a prop strike. Rick -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution




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