---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 06/19/09: 25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:38 AM - aluminum buick/olds/rover in piets (Douwe Blumberg) 2. 05:31 AM - Re: aluminum buick/olds/rover in piets (Will42) 3. 06:52 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute () 4. 07:11 AM - Question about inspection rings (helspersew@aol.com) 5. 07:22 AM - Re: Question about inspection rings (Gary Boothe) 6. 07:39 AM - Re: Question about inspection rings (shad bell) 7. 08:22 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute (Mark Roberts) 8. 08:42 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute (jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com) 9. 08:54 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute (Mark Roberts) 10. 09:11 AM - Question about inspection rings (Oscar Zuniga) 11. 09:11 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute (Gary Boothe) 12. 09:25 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute (jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com) 13. 09:37 AM - Re: Question about inspection rings (Jeff Boatright) 14. 10:10 AM - Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 15. 10:22 AM - Re: Doug Fir as a substitute (Mark Roberts) 16. 10:22 AM - Re: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow (Gary Boothe) 17. 10:54 AM - Re: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Air... (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 18. 11:22 AM - Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris (Oscar Zuniga) 19. 11:52 AM - Re: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow (H RULE) 20. 02:01 PM - Re: Straight Axle gear questions (jorge lizarraga) 21. 02:10 PM - PLEASE!! Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris (Jim Markle) 22. 04:35 PM - Re: PLEASE!! Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris (Wayne Bressler) 23. 05:19 PM - Re: PLEASE!! Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris (amsafetyc@aol.com) 24. 07:34 PM - Re: PLEASE!! Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris (Jim Markle) 25. 09:01 PM - Inspections (Ozarkflyer) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:53 AM PST US From: "Douwe Blumberg" Subject: Pietenpol-List: aluminum buick/olds/rover in piets A while back someone was asking about the aluminum buick/olds V8 being used in piets and I wrote that I'd look through my old backissues. Found this one with a picture from 94' Steve Cavanaugh 54 Old Verowra rd Nornsby NSW 2077 It's his third piet and is using the rover V8 which is our buick/olds Quotes "good performance, no problems" I can tell from the photo it is direct drive. Douwe ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:30 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: aluminum buick/olds/rover in piets From: "Will42" Douwe; do you have a picture you could post? Thanks........ Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249079#249079 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:17 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of information in the archives that people should look at more often. Back in 2000, Steve said "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively with doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost for the fir was less than $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. For what it is (or isn't) worth, Steve E." Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown > with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I > realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over > thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on > building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. > Light = better for me :o) > > However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am > re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the > second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for > spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything > but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. > > Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic > things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here > for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and > another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have > impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics > and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane > fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that > he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the > plane. Well (sigh). > > So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other > posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the > equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there > a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" > x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent > strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to > to equal the strength component of the spruce. > > Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? > > The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for > this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called > for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the > plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things > I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till > all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies > with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway > as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches > for my long frame. > > Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle > 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the > details before the build. > > (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this > is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I > just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 > on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off > of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses > as I set up for final... :o) > > Mark > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:50 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings From: helspersew@aol.com Group, I have just finished covering my one-piece wing. I placed numerous inspection rings on the bottom surface in all the logical locations. What have others done when it comes to placing the inspection rings on the top surface. Is this necessary? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:14 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings Dan, Inspection rings on the top surface would be ill-advised as the lift pressure would be pulling on them. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 7:07 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings Group, I have just finished covering my one-piece wing. I placed numerous inspection rings on the bottom surface in all the logical locations. What have others done when it comes to placing the inspection rings on the top surface. Is this necessary? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL _____ Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:09 AM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings No inspection rings on top for 92GB.- I don't think I have ever seen insp . rings on top of any airplane, but then again I never paid that much atten tion, it would be a potential water ingress point. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:22:32 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute From: Mark Roberts Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:29 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute From: jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com Mark, Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if you phrase it right "when I add my wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) Hope this helps. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:21 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@matronics.com To pietenpol-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:47 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute From: Mark Roberts Thanks Jake! My wife is upstairs and just asked "What are you laughing at...?" and I had to say "Nuthin' Honey!" We just watched a 'Forensic File' episode on TRU tv last night where a nurse killed her husband while he slept with some kind of tranquilizer for insurance money... I'm not pushing my luck! I now have an educated wife!! Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:39 AM, wrote: > > Mark, > > Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and > if you phrase it right "when I add my > wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) > > > Hope this helps. > > > Jake > > > *Mark Roberts * > Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > 06/19/2009 10:21 AM > Please respond to > pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > To > pietenpol-list@matronics.com cc > Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > > Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see > what discussions have "been there, done that." > > Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision > process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff > with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need > to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my > wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot > of > > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > > > Back in 2000, Steve said > > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > > with > > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > > for the fir was less than > > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than > 15lbs, > > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > > > Steve E." > > > > Chris > > Sacramento, CA > > WestCoastPiet.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > > > To: > > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > > > mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> > >> > >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown > >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I > >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over > >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on > >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. > >> Light = better for me :o) > >> > >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am > >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the > >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for > >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything > >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. > >> > >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic > >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here > >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and > >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have > >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics > >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane > >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that > >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the > >> plane. Well (sigh). > >> > >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other > >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the > >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there > >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" > >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent > >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to > >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. > >> > >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? > >> > >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for > >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called > >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the > >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things > >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till > >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies > >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway > >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches > >> for my long frame. > >> > >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle > >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the > >> details before the build. > >> > >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this > >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I > >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 > >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off > >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses > >> as I set up for final... :o) > >> > >> Mark > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > - > - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL > abs Email Security System. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > * > > > * > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:41 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings No inspection rings on the top surfaces anywhere on 41CC... all are on the shady side. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC Getting engine swap to A75 San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:41 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute That's a great idea, Jake! Not sure how one would build from a motel room, either.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 8:40 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Mark, Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if you phrase it right "when I add my wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) Hope this helps. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:21 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@matronics.com To pietenpol-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute From: jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com Mark, if your food smells like almonds, don't eat it. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:52 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@matronics.com To pietenpol-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Jake! My wife is upstairs and just asked "What are you laughing at...?" and I had to say "Nuthin' Honey!" We just watched a 'Forensic File' episode on TRU tv last night where a nurse killed her husband while he slept with some kind of tranquilizer for insurance money... I'm not pushing my luck! I now have an educated wife!! Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:39 AM, wrote: Mark, Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if you phrase it right "when I add my wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) Hope this helps. Jake Mark Roberts Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com 06/19/2009 10:21 AM Please respond to pietenpol-list@matronics.com To pietenpol-list@matronics.com cc Subject Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see what discussions have "been there, done that." Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: > > The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the > archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of > information in the archives that people should look at more often. > > Back in 2000, Steve said > "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively > with > doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost > for the fir was less than > $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per > board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than 15lbs, > if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. > > For what it is (or isn't) worth, > > Steve E." > > Chris > Sacramento, CA > WestCoastPiet.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> >> >> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >> Light = better for me :o) >> >> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >> >> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >> plane. Well (sigh). >> >> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >> >> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >> >> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >> for my long frame. >> >> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >> details before the build. >> >> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >> as I set up for final... :o) >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> > > - - - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL abs Email Security System. ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:37:57 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Question about inspection rings No inspection rings on top of N1EE's wing. Never seen them on other planes, either. >Group, > >I have just finished covering my one-piece wing. I placed numerous >inspection rings on the bottom surface in all the logical locations. >What have others done when it comes to placing the inspection rings >on the top surface. Is this necessary? > >Dan Helsper >Poplar Grove, IL ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:10:37 AM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow The guy doing the announcing here is a Lockheed-Martin Chief Airshow Test P ilot (talk about a dream job) and has a resemblance to Jim Markle. It does my heart good to know that old guys like us can still fly hot jets like that in airshow demonstrations. (of course we'll never get the opportunity but we can always do smoke jobs at Brodhead or formation with a few other Peterpullers. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/video/?fr_story=dbb8451f3914c4b9ad1ab1d7c5 f35c30fd89404f&rf=bm ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:09 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute From: Mark Roberts You must watch the same show :oD Mark On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 9:24 AM, wrote: > > Mark, > > if your food smells like almonds, don't eat it. > > Jake > > > Mark Roberts > Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > 06/19/2009 10:52 AM > > Please respond to > pietenpol-list@matronics.com > To > pietenpol-list@matronics.com > cc > Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > Thanks Jake! My wife is upstairs and just asked "What are you laughing > at...?" and I had to say "Nuthin' Honey!" > > We just watched a 'Forensic File' episode on TRU tv last night where a nurse > killed her husband while he slept with some kind of tranquilizer for > insurance money...I'mnotpushingmyluck!Inowhaveaneducatedwife!! > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 8:39 AM, > wrote: > > Mark, > > Save yourself the anguish of loosing a few pounds, tell your wife to and if > you phrase it right "when I add my > wife and fuel..." you might only have to add fuel ;-) > > > Hope this helps. > > > Jake > > > Mark Roberts > Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > > 06/19/2009 10:21 AM > > Please respond to > pietenpol-list@matronics.com > To > pietenpol-list@matronics.com > cc > Subject > Re: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute > > > > Thanks Chris. I ned to figure out how to search the archives to see > what discussions have "been there, done that." > > Thanks for the post, as I am leaning that way (today) in my decision > process. I met with a friend last night that builds a lot of stuff > with wood, and he'll help me pick the stuff out if I ask him. I need > to be right at 650 lbs or so empty to be comfortable when I add my > wife and fuel... If I lose a few pounds too. :o) > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 19, 2009 at 6:56 AM, wrote: >> >> The question of weight and Doug fir comes up often so I searched the >> archives to see what Steve Eldrige had to say about his. There is a lot of >> information in the archives that people should look at more often. >> >> Back in 2000, Steve said >> "The above statement is simply exaggerated. I built my piet exclusively >> with >> doug fir. Flying weight is 626 pounds (short fuselage, A-65). Total cost >> for the fir was less than >> $600. Spars, longerons, the whole works. 108 brd feet at about $5.75 per >> board ft. I estimate my increase in weight over spruce is less than >> 15lbs, >> if that. Cost was about a quarter that of spruce. >> >> For what it is (or isn't) worth, >> >> Steve E." >> >> Chris >> Sacramento, CA >> WestCoastPiet.com >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" >> To: >> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 10:13 AM >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Doug Fir as a substitute >> >> >>> >>> >>> First, I would like to thank everyone for the patience you've shown >>> with my deliberations over the choice of wood or steel for the fuse. I >>> realize after looking at my posts that some of it might have been over >>> thinking the issue, but if I am spending 4 years (I hope less) on >>> building something, I want to make sure I am happy with the results. >>> Light = better for me :o) >>> >>> However, looking at Doug Fir as an alternative to spruce... I am >>> re-reading the EAA book on wood, and it struck me as funny that the >>> second article in the book was about using Fir as a substitute for >>> spruce. One of the next articles in the book was NOT to use anything >>> but spruce for critical members such as Fuse longerons. >>> >>> Now, some reason need to be applied here, as everyone has a few basic >>> things in common: Body orifices and opinions (phrase cleaned up here >>> for general consumption...). I get that one guy says never use fir and >>> another says it's OK. The funny thing is, is both seemed to have >>> impressive credentials. The one praising fir was a Dr. of aeronautics >>> and involved in sailplanes and the other was Mr. Evans of Volksplane >>> fame. He said after reading about compression fractures in wood, that >>> he went back to recommending only spruce for structural members of the >>> plane. Well (sigh). >>> >>> So, I am thinking, weight not withstanding (remember all of my other >>> posts wringing my hands about steel over wood??), what would be the >>> equivalent size in fir to equal the same strength in spruce? Is there >>> a rule of thumb? For instance, if I were to order from ACS or Wicks 1" >>> x 1" capstrip spruce for the fuse construction, would the equivalent >>> strength size be say, 3/4" square? What could the fir be pared down to >>> to equal the strength component of the spruce. >>> >>> Has anyone ever seen a comparison such as this? >>> >>> The first mentioned author said 'nuts' to the changing of sizes for >>> this type of substitution, and said just use the regular size called >>> for and get over the weight difference. I am re-drawing / modeling the >>> plane in stages in Sketch up 7 to determine all of the little things >>> I'll encounter in the real build (a way of scratching the itch till >>> all the money is there...) and I could work out the inconsistencies >>> with the plans size changes then. I'm going to have to do this anyway >>> as my height will warrant the deepening of the fuse a couple of inches >>> for my long frame. >>> >>> Thanks for the feedback. I hope the posts don't seem like idle >>> 'excitement' chatter, as I am trying to wrap my head around the >>> details before the build. >>> >>> (As an aside, the more I am reading, the more I am understanding this >>> is a normal phenomenon amongst homebuilders of the first go 'round. I >>> just feel excessive in the ponderings. Job? What job.... I'm at 5000 >>> on a nice summer evening looking down on wafts of smoke billowing off >>> of an agriculture burn, and seeing the lights pop on in little houses >>> as I set up for final... :o) >>> >>> Mark >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > - > - > - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL > abs Email Security System. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > - > - > - > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned for SPAM content and Viruses by the MessageL > abs Email Security System. > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:22 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow Mike, As usual, you are exactly right. Last year, while in California visiting the West Coast Pieters, we got Jim drunk on cheap wine and he confessed that he has an alter-ego, who likes to go fast! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow The guy doing the announcing here is a Lockheed-Martin Chief Airshow Test Pilot (talk about a dream job) and has a resemblance to Jim Markle. It does my heart good to know that old guys like us can still fly hot jets like that in airshow demonstrations. (of course we'll never get the opportunity but we can always do smoke jobs at Brodhead or formation with a few other Peterpullers. http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/video/?fr_story=dbb8451f3914c4b9ad1ab1d7c5f35 c30fd89404f &rf=bm ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:54:14 AM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Air... The only way to tell the difference is Markle doesn't fly jets! Now if it were the Piet well then it could be Markle in the split S maneuver. John **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:22:39 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Mikee, I'm a little confused. The gentleman in the Paris Airshow video looks like Jim Markle's son. Jim is a much older guy, chicken farmer or something, and definitely not debonair like the announcer in the video. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:15 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Airshow I'm still trying to figure out how to get a heads up display in my GN-1=C2 - with a G recovery system as well as an ejection seat.There doesn't seem to be enough room for all that stuff!;-)=0A=0A=0Ado not archive=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" =0ATo: "pietenpol-list @matronics.com" =0ASent: Friday, June 19, 200 9 12:55:40 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies th e F-16 at the Paris Airshow=0A=0AThe guy doing the announcing here is a Loc kheed-Martin Chief Airshow Test Pilot (talk about a dream job) and has=0Aa resemblance to Jim Markle.=C2-=C2-=C2-=C2- =0A=0AIt does my heart g ood to know that old guys like us can still fly hot jets like that in airsh ow demonstrations.=C2-=C2- (of course=0Awe=99ll never get the opp ortunity but we can always do smoke jobs at Brodhead or formation with a fe w other Peterpullers. =0A=0Ahttp://www.aviationweek.com/aw/video/?fr_story ============= ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:49 PM PST US From: jorge lizarraga Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions congratulation for you great progres in you piet im in the same for now vis it my wife and my child in mexico i hope sooner you put your engine in thes e beauty ship seyou next jorge from hanford --- On Tue, 6/16/09, Michael Groah wrote: From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Thank you for the help, both Jack and Dan.- Yes Dan I've read the gear co nstruction write up that Chris did on westcoastpiet.com.- I chose to do m ine differently (right side up), but still got the job done.- Thanks for the tips.- I'll get to work on the axle part soon.- Hopefully you can s ee the attached pic of what I have done thus far.- Mike Groah Tulare CA --- On Mon, 6/15/09, helspersew@aol.com wrote: From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Mike, Please see the attached. As you might see, I have elongated the "sheath" tu be on my "axle locator" tube system into an oval shape. This is to allow a "rocking" motion on the gear, without putting an undo strain on the tube th at is welded onto the axle. Please note I have not flown with this set-up. I unashamedly copied it from Simon McCormack from "down under" www.westcoas tpiet.com. They look at things from a "different" perspective there, and ma ny times have some superb ideas. Also, have you looked at Chris Tracey's st raight axle gear fabrication instructions on the westcoastpiet site? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Michael Groah Sent: Mon, Jun 15, 2009 8:36 am Subject: Pietenpol-List: Straight Axle gear questions Ok , I have been working on my straight axle gear, but I have a couple of q uestions. First how much room should I allow between the gear legs and the brakes for the bungees?- If I remember correctly Jack Phillips said he le ft 6".--- Also how much travel should I allow for the axle.- What I 'm asking about is the axle locator tube system like Mike Cuy has that keep s the axle from rotating or sliding from side to side.- How much length s hould I have? Mike Groah Tulare CA Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:34 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: PLEASE!! Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris If I could just stop laughing for a minute this would probably offend me!! You guys are a riot! Uhhh, and I'm just gonna keep quiet for now....I have a loooooong memory... I'm on my way home from St Louis where I just spent a couple hours at the WACO fly in at Creve Couer....now THERE I saw some old timers (AND old airplanes)! But some incredibly beautiful airplanes. I've attached a couple of (small) pics. jm -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris > > > >Mikee, I'm a little confused. The gentleman in the Paris >Airshow video looks like Jim Markle's son. Jim is a much >older guy, chicken farmer or something, and definitely >not debonair like the announcer in the video. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:40 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: PLEASE!! Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris Jim, What is that yellow and black beauty in the last photo? Very nice! Do not archive Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from my iPhone On Jun 19, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Jim Markle wrote: > If I could just stop laughing for a minute this would probably > offend me!! > > You guys are a riot! > > Uhhh, and I'm just gonna keep quiet for now....I have a loooooong > memory... > > I'm on my way home from St Louis where I just spent a couple hours > at the WACO fly in at Creve Couer....now THERE I saw some old timers > (AND old airplanes)! But some incredibly beautiful airplanes. I've > attached a couple of (small) pics. > > jm > > > -----Original Message----- >> From: Oscar Zuniga >> Sent: Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM >> To: Pietenpol List >> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 >> at the Paris >> >> > >> >> >> Mikee, I'm a little confused. The gentleman in the Paris >> Airshow video looks like Jim Markle's son. Jim is a much >> older guy, chicken farmer or something, and definitely >> not debonair like the announcer in the video. >> >> Oscar Zuniga >> Air Camper NX41CC >> San Antonio, TX >> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >> >> do not archive >> >> >> >> > > > <3 in a row.jpg> > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:19:00 PM PST US Subject: Re: PLEASE!! Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris From: amsafetyc@aol.com To tell the truth I grow weary of all this Jim Markle business I think as adults we need to put it to bed and move on. Will the real Jim Markle please stand up John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Jim Markle Subject: PLEASE!! Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris If I could just stop laughing for a minute this would probably offend me!! You guys are a riot! Uhhh, and I'm just gonna keep quiet for now....I have a loooooong memory... I'm on my way home from St Louis where I just spent a couple hours at the WACO fly in at Creve Couer....now THERE I saw some old timers (AND old airplanes)! But some incredibly beautiful airplanes. I've attached a couple of (small) pics. jm -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris > > > >Mikee, I'm a little confused. The gentleman in the Paris >Airshow video looks like Jim Markle's son. Jim is a much >older guy, chicken farmer or something, and definitely >not debonair like the announcer in the video. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > >do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:10 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: PLEASE!! Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 at the Paris > >Jim, > >What is that yellow and black beauty in the last photo? Very nice! And that hangar was FULL of beautiful airplanes. ALL fly on a regular basis too. Wow. I looked up the registration and apparently it's a 1933 F-13 Flagg. Honestly, beyond that I haven't a clue. But it was incredible. Until just now I didn't even see that (what looks like a) knucklehead Harley behind it. JM > >Do not archive > >Wayne Bressler Jr. >Taildraggers, Inc. >taildraggersinc.com > >Sent from my iPhone > >On Jun 19, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Jim Markle >wrote: > >> If I could just stop laughing for a minute this would probably >> offend me!! >> >> You guys are a riot! >> >> Uhhh, and I'm just gonna keep quiet for now....I have a loooooong >> memory... >> >> I'm on my way home from St Louis where I just spent a couple hours >> at the WACO fly in at Creve Couer....now THERE I saw some old timers >> (AND old airplanes)! But some incredibly beautiful airplanes. I've >> attached a couple of (small) pics. >> >> jm >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Oscar Zuniga >>> Sent: Jun 19, 2009 1:22 PM >>> To: Pietenpol List >>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Jim Markle's stunt double flies the F-16 >>> at the Paris >>> >>> > >>> >>> >>> Mikee, I'm a little confused. The gentleman in the Paris >>> Airshow video looks like Jim Markle's son. Jim is a much >>> older guy, chicken farmer or something, and definitely >>> not debonair like the announcer in the video. >>> >>> Oscar Zuniga >>> Air Camper NX41CC >>> San Antonio, TX >>> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >>> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net >>> >>> do not archive >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> <3 in a row.jpg> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:01:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Inspections From: "Ozarkflyer" When building an experimental, what inspections and logs are required and how extensive should they be? Should an completed experimental aircraft that has no logs or inspections ever be purchased and what steps would have to be taken to make it "legal"? 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