---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/20/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:37 AM - Re: Inspections (H RULE) 2. 09:40 AM - Re: Inspections/ Hummel Bird (Michael Silvius) 3. 03:15 PM - Turnbuckle safety (Gary Boothe) 4. 04:21 PM - Re: Turnbuckle safety (Gene Rambo) 5. 04:40 PM - Re: Turnbuckle safety (skellytown flyer) 6. 05:07 PM - Re: Turnbuckle safety (Mandy & Michael Green) 7. 05:13 PM - Re: Re: Turnbuckle safety (Gary Boothe) 8. 05:20 PM - Re: Turnbuckle safety (Gary Boothe) 9. 05:20 PM - Re: Turnbuckle safety (Gary Boothe) 10. 05:52 PM - Re: Re: Turnbuckle safety (Gary Boothe) 11. 06:11 PM - Re: Re: Re: Turnbuckle safety (Jim) 12. 06:22 PM - Re: Re: Re: Turnbuckle safety (Gary Boothe) 13. 07:11 PM - Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! (Mark Roberts) 14. 07:46 PM - Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! (shad bell) 15. 07:46 PM - Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! (Michael Silvius) 16. 07:53 PM - Re: Turnbuckle safety (shad bell) 17. 08:09 PM - Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! (Michael Silvius) 18. 08:10 PM - Invitation to view Mark's Picasa Web Album - My visit at The Groah's (Mark) 19. 09:11 PM - Re: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! (Gary Boothe) 20. 09:19 PM - Re: Invitation to view Mark's Picasa Web Album - My visit at The Groah's (Gary Boothe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:37:03 AM PST US From: H RULE Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspections Up here in Ottawa I completed a GN-1 Aircamper and registered it as an ultr alight which ment I didn't have to go through any of the processes you ment ion below.I fly regular and have a lot of fun.Since I am registered as a ba sic ultralight pilot I am not allowed to carry passengers so I have a batte ry in the front seat for electric starts.The difference for me to register as an ultralight instead of a homebuilt was thousands of dollars in savings .I did however have an AME(aircraft maintenance engineer )look at the aircr aft upon completion just for my own piece of mind but he was not required t o sign off on anything and he is a good friend of mine so it really didn't cost much.The first time I flew her was in 2006 and she flew as advertised. Up here in Canada an ultralight can be as heavy as 1235 lbs. with floats.In the US they are still at the 250 lbs. so you can't do this.They do however have the Sport rating which reuires you to probably have to go through much of what you ask.I also own an N3PUP which at the moment-I c an't fly because the engine isn't powerful enough to get my 200 lbs. frame off the ground-.I made the mistake of taking a 503 which was timed out, o ff and replacing it with a 1/2 VW which is OK if your 150 lbs.I really need an HKS or something of that power. The PUP weighs around 650 lbs. full up and it too is registered as an ultralight.-Both are for sale since I am t rying to get out of the hanger which cost $3000 per year.I'd like to eventu ally get a-Hummel Bird with trailor then my costs would go way down.- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Ozarkflyer =0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 12:00:31 AM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: Inspections=0A=0A--> Pietenpol- List message posted by: "Ozarkflyer" =0A=0AWhen buildin g an experimental, what inspections and logs are required and how extensive should they be?- Should an completed experimental aircraft that has no l ogs or inspections ever be purchased and what steps would have to be taken to make it "legal"?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0ARead this topic online here:=0A=0Ahttp:// forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249188#249188=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =============== ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:55 AM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Inspections/ Hummel Bird Harvey: Going a bit off topic here, but allong the Hummel thread.... Have you seen this one? http://luciolemc30.blogspot.com/ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Cfrih8v5bM http://www.hiboox.fr/go/albums/divers/luciole-mc30-salon-de-l-aviation-ve rte,cb400ceecaf72159a4cc87161cc54125 Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: H RULE To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com . Both are for sale since I am trying to get out of the hanger which cost $3000 per year.I'd like to eventually get a Hummel Bird with trailor then my costs would go way down. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:15:51 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Can anyone suggest a safety wire method for this turnbuckle? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:52 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety what, you questioning about the end in the photo?? just run the wire around the end and single wrap it. It does not have to go through the hole with the pin to do it's job. Or am I missing the question?? Gene ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:30 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety From: "skellytown flyer" I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:24 PM PST US From: "Mandy & Michael Green" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Gary, You could use turnbarrel clips. See picture. Mike Green Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Can anyone suggest a safety wire method for this turnbuckle? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) __________ NOD32 4174 (20090620) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:13:40 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:05 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Thanks, Mike! Unfortunately, I did not buy the clip type of barrel (not sure If the Pietenpol Police would allow it). ;-) I'm too cheap to replace them, too. As a matter of fact, I seriously considered some of the old-time alternatives to turnbuckles! Those things are WAY TOO EXPENSIVE! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mandy & Michael Green Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Gary, You could use turnbarrel clips. See picture. Mike Green Australia ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:12 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Can anyone suggest a safety wire method for this turnbuckle? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) __________ NOD32 4174 (20090620) Information __________ ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:05 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Gene, Re-reading your reply.and I had considered that, too. You were not missing anything. Anyway, I ended up drilling a hole.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gene Rambo Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety what, you questioning about the end in the photo?? just run the wire around the end and single wrap it. It does not have to go through the hole with the pin to do it's job. Or am I missing the question?? Gene ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:52 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I thought I should include a picture showing my fix...sorry for the fuzziness, but the hole is the shiny part, just at the end of the turnbuckle end. I know, I know...if the Gestapo sees this I could lose my A&P cert. This fix would not be a consideration if these were primary control cables. Gary Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:50 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair Hey Gary, Lets see a picture of the entire LG. It looks like you have it all painted, assembled and ready to go down the runway, wow. You are really making progress. Jim B. do not archive On Jun 20, 2009, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote: I thought I should include a picture showing my fix...sorry for the fuzziness, but the hole is the shiny part, just at the end of the turnbuckle end. I know, I know...if the Gestapo sees this I could lose my A&P cert. This fix would not be a consideration if these were primary control cables. Gary Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:22:31 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety Jim, Thanks for asking! Tomorrow I will safety the turnbuckles, but I still have work to do on the axle. It will be similar to Dan Helsper's (but not so brightly painted). Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 6:09 PM Subject: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair Hey Gary, Lets see a picture of the entire LG. It looks like you have it all painted, assembled and ready to go down the runway, wow. You are really making progress. Jim B. do not archive On Jun 20, 2009, gboothe5@comcast.net wrote: I thought I should include a picture showing my fix...sorry for the fuzziness, but the hole is the shiny part, just at the end of the turnbuckle end. I know, I know...if the Gestapo sees this I could lose my A&P cert. This fix would not be a consideration if these were primary control cables. Gary Thanks, Gene... Thanks, Raymond. I went out on the back porch, had a glass of ice water and communed with nature for a few minutes, and came up with the exact resolution you describe. I can now use the double wrap method. For any who may not have followed, I probably purchased the wrong end. After the pin went thru (which fits tightly), I had no place to run the safety wire thru. As Raymond suggested, I drilled a small hole, big enough for the safety wire, on the exposed part of the tab. Life is good..... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of skellytown flyer Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 4:40 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Turnbuckle safety I don't know whether you have room or it would be permissible,but maybe drill a hole in the tab to run the wires through on that end and twist off-it obviously can't turn the eye on that end.I would think if you cross wrap the two wires from the middle hole to the tab and go through it and twist together it should work? Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249282#249282 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:11:34 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! From: Mark Roberts I need a quick Corvair lesson, as I rather unexpectedly fell into several opportunities today. We have a local program on Saturday Mornings called 'Radio Tradio' where you can call in and sell stuff for a couple of hours. You can also request stuff you're looking for. So, as I was on my way to the airport to fly a plane up to an airshow for the afternoon to exhibit it for sale (for a friend of mine), I called the number and actually got through. I told the listeners i was a lookin' for a corvair core or motor, vintage 1965 or so, but it had to be the 110 hp motor. Gave my phone number, and thought, 'Yeah, right....' Well, I got about 4 calls from that from people that had motors/parts etc. One guy lives a bit away, and said 'I gotta full on motor been sittin' in my barn from like, 1985 or so. It's yours if you want it. I don't even think I'd charge ya...' He said it came off a 'spider', and that was an unknown to me. I was in a rush to leave for the airshow, so I didn't know what more to ask, and I thought I had better make sure I am looking for the right stuff, as I have seen a few posts that reference serial numbers and other markings that make it proper for our purposes. I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I can get what is needed) would be helpful. Thanks to all! Mark ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:06 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! I am not positive, but I think the spyder was a 140hp engine, and I don't t hink it is on the peferred list for an aircraft conversion, but I might be wrong.- If I can find dad's wynne books I'll look it up. - Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:06 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! Mark: If you can open up the top and look at the crank you are looking for the 8409 number on it. It means it is the later model long throw crank and the case is the one that goes with it, (clearanced for longer throw). That is half the battle. Anything with an 8409 crank is usefull, even if it is a 140/180 hp you can get the right 110 heads separetely later if needed. If it is a 180 the crank is likely to be nitrided which is even more desireable For more details print these pages from the links bellow and take them with you when you go look at it. case number ID http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/VinSuffix.html head number ID desireable ones are highlited http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/CorvAIRCRAFT/HeadNumbers.html more http://www.corvaircraft.com/ Michael in Maine ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" > > I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance > to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what > to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I > can get what is needed) would be helpful. > > Thanks to all! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:03 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Turnbuckle safety Remember though, the turnbuckle saftey clips only work on MS turnbuckles, t hey won't work on AN turnbuckles, There is no slot on the barrel or the for k or eye ends to slide the clips on an AN turnbuckle. - Shad In WI-I-I-I-INDY Ohio=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:09:33 PM PST US From: "Michael Silvius" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! Mark: Let me add to my previous note that ideally what you want is a 110 non-smog engine. But anything with an 8409 crank will do especially if it is a freebie. No matter what you do, do not tear in to it until you get WW's manual so you get the details on the particulars, and under no circumstance remove the long head bolts from the case. These will be some degree of trouble as the lower set are likely to exhibit some rust on the ends and the nuts will not want to budge without turning the stud in the case. good luck Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! >> > I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance > to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what > to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I > can get what is needed) would be helpful. > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Invitation to view Mark's Picasa Web Album - My visit at The Groah's From: Mark Hi Guys: I always find it interesting to see some of the people that we correspond with on the list. Put's a face with a name. I happen to live an hour away from one of the list members, and surprisingly have driven by their house on many occasions, not knowing there was a plane being built in the shop, or that there was such a nice guy living there. Well, so happens that by asking iof there was anyone building a Piet near Fresno CA that I met a couple of really nice guys yesterday. Have a look... http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=RobertsChristmas2007&target=ALBUM&id=5349598279130209457&authkey=Gv1sRgCIPixMiX0oXd-AE&invite=CLSirvAM&feat=email ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:40 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! Mark, Further note...If he's 'giving' you the engine, no matter which one, don't turn it down. It's good trading material. My first engine that I got (before I had WW's book) was a 140 hp. The guy that rebuilt my heads traded mine for the right ones. I got the right crank thru a different deal. Corvair race guys are looking for the 140 engines. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Silvius Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:58 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! Mark: Let me add to my previous note that ideally what you want is a 110 non-smog engine. But anything with an 8409 crank will do especially if it is a freebie. No matter what you do, do not tear in to it until you get WW's manual so you get the details on the particulars, and under no circumstance remove the long head bolts from the case. These will be some degree of trouble as the lower set are likely to exhibit some rust on the ends and the nuts will not want to budge without turning the stud in the case. good luck Michael ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Roberts" Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:11 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Corvair engine... maybe 3 or 4! >> > I have planned to buy Wynne's book, but I haven't yet had the chance > to tap that one yet before this, so any advice on the basics of what > to look for in a core/engine to rebuild (just the primer version so I > can get what is needed) would be helpful. > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 09:19:09 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Invitation to view Mark's Picasa Web Album - My visit at The Groah's Mark, Great recount of your visit! Somehow, I think you will keep us posted on your progress.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 8:09 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Invitation to view Mark's Picasa Web Album - My visit at The Groah's You are invited to view Mark's photo album: My visit at The Groah's My visit at The Groah's Jun 20, 2009 by Mark I had a chance to visit with Mike and Victor Groah and see their Pietenpol Air Camper at their shop. What a great couple of guys and what a great couple of craftsmen! View Album Play slideshow Message from Mark: Hi Guys: I always find it interesting to see some of the people that we correspond with on the list. Put's a face with a name. I happen to live an hour away from one of the list members, and surprisingly have driven by their house on many occasions, not knowing there was a plane being built in the shop, or that there was such a nice guy living there. Well, so happens that by asking iof there was anyone building a Piet near Fresno CA that I met a couple of really nice guys yesterday. Have a look... 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