Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:41 AM - Re: Building with wood question (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 04:23 AM - Re: Building with wood question (Ameet Savant)
3. 04:51 AM - passing along the passion for open cockpit flying (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
4. 05:26 AM - Re: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying (899PM)
5. 06:02 AM - Re: Re: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying (Isablcorky@aol.com)
6. 06:41 AM - Re: WACO fly-in (jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com)
7. 07:12 AM - Re: WACO fly-in (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
8. 07:17 AM - Re: WACO fly-in (Isablcorky@aol.com)
9. 07:18 AM - Re: Building with wood question (Gary Boothe)
10. 08:42 AM - Re: Building with wood question (K5YAC)
11. 10:09 AM - Re: rib plans question (Tim Willis)
12. 10:10 AM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (shad bell)
13. 10:12 AM - Re: Building with wood question (Paul N. Peckham)
14. 10:21 AM - Re: Building with wood question (K5YAC)
15. 10:21 AM - Re: rib plans question (RAMPEYBOY@aol.com)
16. 11:14 AM - Re: Re: Building with wood question (shad bell)
17. 11:36 AM - Re: Re: Building with wood question (brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com)
18. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: Building with wood question (Jack Phillips)
19. 12:11 PM - Re: WACO fly-in (Jack Phillips)
20. 12:11 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (Jack Phillips)
21. 12:22 PM - and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
22. 12:38 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (H RULE)
23. 12:38 PM - Re: WACO fly-in (jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com)
24. 12:44 PM - Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? (John Hofmann)
25. 01:13 PM - Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? (H RULE)
26. 01:22 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio ()
27. 01:36 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
28. 01:41 PM - Re: Re: Building with wood question ()
29. 01:45 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (K5YAC)
30. 01:45 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (Marshall Lumsden)
31. 01:52 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio ()
32. 02:01 PM - Re: Building with wood question (K5YAC)
33. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: Building with wood question (Bill Church)
34. 02:58 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (Mike Volckmann)
35. 03:01 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (Bill Church)
36. 03:19 PM - Re: WACO fly-in Ohio (Marshall Lumsden)
37. 03:38 PM - Famous aviators origin (helspersew@aol.com)
38. 04:16 PM - Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? (amsafetyc@aol.com)
39. 04:18 PM - Re: Re: Building with wood question (Michael Perez)
40. 07:37 PM - Speaking of Wood Selection... (Mark Roberts)
41. 08:13 PM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (Jim)
42. 08:33 PM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (Mark Roberts)
43. 08:53 PM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (Michael Groah)
44. 09:05 PM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (Mark Roberts)
45. 10:33 PM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (Clif Dawson)
46. 10:36 PM - Bad me! (Clif Dawson)
47. 10:55 PM - Wood for a peetenhauller (Gary Boothe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
Rodney,
Right after you get the saw, the very next thing you need is a pneumatic hand-held
belt sander with a 3/8" wide belt. I used mine about a million times at least.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: r.r.hall@cox.net
Sent: Tue, Jun 23, 2009 5:53 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building with wood question
I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is a
saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one?
A Table Saw
A Bandsaw
A Compound Miter Saw
or something else?
Rodney Hall
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
In addition to what Bill Church said a Table Saw can be augmented by a lot of jigs
and fixtures to do almost all of the jobs a miter saw does. It gets a little
uncomfortable to cross cut long pieces but it can be done. Some of the jigs
that come to mind are the crosscut sled, board cutting jig and a taper jig.
Like Bill said, if you plan to rip and dimension your own stock buy a table saw.
Just don't buy Black and Decker. Their slots on the table's surface are non
standard. That is not necessarily a bad thing, but you have to make your own jigs
as the commercial jigs are use 3/4" wide rails.
Also remember, even if you buy your wood locally the suppliers usually do the milling
for you for a small fee. If that is an option, the table saw would not
be needed- but I can't imagine a wood workshop without one! :)
Ameet
Omaha, NE
Message 3
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| Subject: | passing along the passion for open cockpit flying |
It is refreshing to see
>some kids are not punks, and are polite generous,respectful, and not
>sitting on there butts playing vidio games. I hope to give a million
>more rides to kids like him, so our hobby, passion does not die with
>us
Well said Shad-- I second everything you posted. At our EAA pancake breakfast/
Young Eagle event last Saturday I pulled the plane out and let kids sit in the
pilot seat and move the controls around. One little girl absolutely was fascinated
with her time in the seat and hands at the controls and didn't hardly want to get
out--but I was in no hurry and told the mom there was no rush. You never know
what
that one experience might do to plant a lifetime of aviation in another's blood.
I've heard about kids I gave rides to back in the 90's who are airline pilots now.
THAT makes me feel good.
Mike C.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying |
I flew the Cub into the Palmyra(88C) Fathers Day Fly-In. Every time I noticed kids
and parents around the Cub I walked over and asked the parents if it were
OK to allow the kids to sit in the plane. Just the look on the kids faces was
enough for me. I explained the stick and associated control surfaces and had them
move the stick while looking back. Eyes got big when they realized they were
"flying". One small girl about 7 years old all but refused to get out. I know
several of those kids thought about "flying" and planes the rest of the day.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249780#249780
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: passing along the passion for open cockpit flying |
Pieters,
Want to pass on a bit of experience about Piet flying.
Several years ago, shortly after NX41CC was flying, 2004, Isabelle and I
drove to a fly-in at Marksville, La. My dependable test pilot and friend,
Edwin Johnson, flew the plane down. About 130 miles and about 2 hrs flight
time.While parked along the line Isabelle and I were in lawn chairs under the
wing. Many people stopped, looked, questioned and commented. All
complimentary. However there was a father and son about 10 yrs old who approached
the
plane and paid me the best of all compliments. The son asked the father, "
what's this one Daddy?.Dad says casually, A lot of long hard work.
Keep building Pieters, it will pay off in so many ways you haven't even
thought about
Corky and Isabelle in HOT Louisiana
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)
Message 6
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All,
Last year I made one of my first posts, after attending Brodhead where
Bill Rewey Gave my 8 year old Nephew his first airplane ride. He has
asked every month since the snow left, is this the month when we go to
brodhead, the second question is Do I think Bill will be there, third
question, do you think I can get another ride. Brandon's Parents are
divorced and his older brother is 8 years his senior. He's my Buddy and
miniature shadow, Bill and the rest of you planted a seed last year, and I
cant' thank you enough.
See you all in Brodhead.
Jake
Message 7
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You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas
for a fly-in.
Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and BETTER!
Steve D.
----- Original Message -----
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
>
> Hello Guys, Just to let you Ohio area guys, Wynkoop airport is
> closed per NOTAM untill sunday for the wacos. I flew over there
> tonight and would have got in trouble had I not talked to Brian
> Wynkoop (Airport owner)at our last EAA meeting. The "Airboss"
> promply told me the airport was closed and if the feds were there
> I could get a citation/ violation. All was smoothed out after I
> told him Brian said it was OK. They had about 15 Wacos there
> already, and expect 70+ by friday. I was also able to give a
> local airport kid a ride. He was brought there by his Grand dad
> to voulenteerand help out with the fly-in. As I was walking by,
> his Grand dad said "see if he will give you a ride for a few bucks
> for gas". I heard the kid say, "no, he probably has to go". I
> turned around and said "get in I got time, I was just like you
> once, except I never did get a ride untill I started taking flying
> lessons at 18". The young man (12-14 yrs old) had
> a blast, and promply thanked me after we landed and shook my
> hand. I hope that seed grows, now that it is planted. It is
> refreshing to see some kids are not punks, and are polite
> generous,respectful, and not sitting on there butts playing vidio
> games. I hope to give a million more rides to kids like him, so
> our hobby, passion does not die with us. By the way, if any of
> you want to go to the Waco fly-in this weekend, simply fly to Knox
> County Airport, which is 3 miles south of Wynkoop, they are
> running shuttles all day on saturday, and if you are planning on
> going let me know, you might be able to fly in to OH71 and put
> your piet in my hanger and drive over with me.
>
> Shad
>
>
>
Message 8
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We'll see about that BIGGER and BETTER stuff tonight.
Corky in Louisiana, an ole Tiger
**************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the
grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Building with wood question |
Rodney,
It looks like you got tons of replies. I know of some who cut all their
metal parts with hack-saw, but a metal blade on a band saw sure makes it
easier. My list would include: Table saw, band saw, bench sander, drill
press. That seems like a lot of expense, but here's how you pay for it: As
others have said, buy 'planks' of an alternative wood like fir, pine or
poplar. The standard 'kit' of A/C Spruce is about $1,000, and that does not
include the ribs. With just a little shopping you could spend $300-500 on an
alternative wood and purchase all the tools with the savings!
Good luck & happy building,
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
r.r.hall@cox.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 3:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Building with wood question
I am just beginning to build with wood so one of the first things I need is
a saw. What is the best saw to get if you are only able to get one?
A Table Saw
A Bandsaw
A Compound Miter Saw
or something else?
Rodney Hall
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
If it makes you feel any better Rodney... the wood kit from AS&S is running $1225
right now, and that does not include all the capstrip for the wing ribs or
any plywood. I've spent ~$2000 on wood so far (about 25% of that being plywood),
which should be just about all the wood I need, but you can certainly reduce
that expense by ripping your own parts, which like Gary said, it may help you
justify the expense of a couple more tools. Oh, and his mention of a drill
press... another good one.
I'm not sure where you are located, but keep you eye on Craigslist. Other than
the prostitution rings, there are some good areas on that site where you can
often find reasonable deals locally. I purchased most of my gas welding rig on
there for a reasonable amount. It is used equipment, but it works great. Check
it out.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249820#249820
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: rib plans question |
Rampey, be advised that on the Don Pietenpol plans (I think) and certainly on the
Flying and Glider plans there is a dip in one of the coordinate points on the
top surface. If you try to french curve across the data points of the plan,
you will find the one point that is low by 1/8 of an inch, as I recall.
Experts, please correct if I am off on this.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: RAMPEYBOY@aol.com
>Sent: Jun 23, 2009 4:11 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: rib plans question
>
>now that sounds like a good idea! Thanks!
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I thin
k, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again.- Just a friendly jab to a
ll the Texans.- At least they named the T-6 after you.
-
Shad
-
P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I t
hink Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.
--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.arm
y.mil> wrote:
From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
ven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco
, Texas for a fly-in.
Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and BETTER!
Steve D.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
Rodney,
I second the motion on looking on Craigslist. Table saws and miter saws are a
dime a dozen and just as cheap. Bandsaws are more rare and a bit more expensive,
but cost a whole lot less than buying new. A lot of those old tools still
have life left in them. I bought a 10" compound miter saw for $35 and a 1950's
era Delta bandsaw for $90. The Delta needed a good cleanup but works just marvelous.
And yes I can get bandsaw blades for it. You just have to be patient
and wait for the right deals to come along.
As far as those other "services" offered on Craigslist, I would have to defer to
those out there who have more experience with such things...........
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249832#249832
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
Wait a minute... I'm not sure if that was directed at me or not, but allow me to
clarify... I have no experience with the other "services" offered on Craigslist,
it's just that every time you hear about the site on the news they are being
threatened with lawsuits and such over illegal activities.
Oh, I also have a scroll saw. A great tool when you need one, but I wouldn't place
it in the same group with the ones we've been discussing.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249835#249835
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: rib plans question |
Thanks Tim, I have read about that dip before on the list. I don't think
it presents a huge problem. Others have said just "connect the dots" for a
smooth transition. Seems easy enough...
Boyce
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
The only problem with craigslist is yes items may be stolen, but the same c
an be said for yard sales, flea markets etc.- You can surely find second
hand tools for far cheaper than new tools, and they will probably do just a
s good.- Just my 2 cents on tools "required" or rather perfered: A good t
able saw, a small drill press, and a small band saw.- The combo belt disk
sanders are nice, but you can get a 10in sanding disk for the table saw.
-
Happy Building
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
The "Piet" project was the perfect excuse to stock up my shop on power
tools such as....... Table saw, band saw, miter saw, 12" disc sander,
jointer, planer, gas torch set, sand blaster, new tool boxes, router
with table, 16ft work bench, engine stand, engine hoist, drill
press.....and when the wife asked where the tools came from I said...
"what these old tools I've had these forever. "
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
I agree with Bill.
The tools you will use the most are (in order):
Table Saw
Belt Sander
Band Saw
Metal Cuting Band Saw (I bought the cheap $200 Grizzly metal cutting bandsaw
and it worked great for all the steel parts you'll have to cut)
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 12:19 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Building with wood question
I've bought rough-sawn boards, and ripped all my own sticks. The tablesaw
has always been the most often used, and most useful tool in my workshop. I
would find it difficult to do most woodworking jobs without it. I consider
it the heart of my workshop. A good thin-kerf ripping blade and a
featherboard are all you really need to rip your own wood from rough-sawn
lumber. A thickness planer is handy, but not necessary. I own a compound
mitersaw, and have not used it yet on this project. My combination belt/disc
sander is the second-most used tool in my shop (mostly the disc part). VERY
handy for this project. A bandsaw would be a very useful tool to have
(although I do not own one) particularly when it cones time to cut some
metal parts.
If you intend to buy your stock pre-dimensioned, as opposed to cutting from
rough boards, you could probably get away with a regular hand saw and the
disc sander for a LOT of the cutting. The 1/16" plywood gussets can be cut
with shears, but the 1/8" gussets for the tail and fuselage will need to be
sawn, and the ol' tablesaw will be your best friend once again. You can't
cut up a sheet of plywood with a mitersaw. You could use a circular saw
(yuck) or a handsaw (yuck again) or possibly the bandsaw, but the tablesaw
is the way to go. I'm using a 35-year-old basic 9" tablesaw that was handed
down to me from my father - you likely can pick up one for less than $200.
There's no simple answer to your question. One tool is not going to do it
all. But if I was to get a first tool, it would be a tablesaw. And you're
likely going to get better value if you buy an older, used tablesaw than if
you get a new, low-end saw. My general rule of thumb with tools is, if you
get a tool for cheap, you get a cheap tool. Usually the only way to get a
quality tool for a low price is by buying a used tool.
Bill C.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249754#249754
Message 19
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Jake,
I'll be happy to give your nephew a ride in my Piet at Brodhead, as long as
that 8 year old doesn't weigh over 170 lbs.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
All,
Last year I made one of my first posts, after attending Brodhead where Bill
Rewey Gave my 8 year old Nephew his first airplane ride. He has asked every
month since the snow left, is this the month when we go to brodhead, the
second question is Do I think Bill will be there, third question, do you
think I can get another ride. Brandon's Parents are divorced and his older
brother is 8 years his senior. He's my Buddy and miniature shadow, Bill and
the rest of you planted a seed last year, and I cant' thank you enough.
See you all in Brodhead.
Jake
Message 20
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| Subject: | WACO fly-in Ohio |
Of course, where did those Ohio boys have to go to fly in 1903? NORTH
CAROLINA, so we proudly carry the slogan "First in Flight" on our license
plates.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, NC
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I
think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to
all the Texans. At least they named the T-6 after you.
Shad
P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I
think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.
--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote:
From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
<steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil
<http://us.mc657.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> >
You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco,
Texas for a fly-in.
Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and BETTER!
Steve D.
Message 21
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| Subject: | and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? |
And not to leave out the first 100th year anniversary of flight in Canada E
AA is having
some special doings at Oshkosh to celebrate that event that took place in 1
909. Bill Church is
our resident Pietenpol poster boy and I think Harvey Rule too. Were yo
u there for that first
flight Harve ?
http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-02-23_canada.asp
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be b
ig enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again
.=0A________________________________=0AFrom: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.c
om>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:0
5:56 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio=0A=0A=0AWhere were
those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that
1st man on the moon yep Ohio again.- Just a friendly jab to all the Texa
ns.- At least they named the T-6 after you.=0A=0AShad=0A=0AP.S. Don't tak
e this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has
more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.=0A=0A--- On Wed, 6/24
/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote:=0A
=0A=0AFrom: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>=0A
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0ADate: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM=0A=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List mess
age posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mi
l>=0A=0AYou got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go
to Waco, Texas for a fly-in. =0A=0APlease be more accurate with your Subje
ct!!! ;-P=0A=0ATexas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B
======================== _
=======================
Message 23
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Jack,
Thanks a million. I will let Brandon know. he's so skinny he has to
stand twice to make a shadow.
Jake
"Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent by: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
06/24/2009 02:04 PM
Please respond to
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
To
<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
cc
Subject
RE: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
Jake,
I?ll be happy to give your nephew a ride in my Piet at Brodhead, as long
as that 8 year old doesn?t weigh over 170 lbs.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [
mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:41 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
All,
Last year I made one of my first posts, after attending Brodhead where
Bill Rewey Gave my 8 year old Nephew his first airplane ride. He has
asked every month since the snow left, is this the month when we go to
brodhead, the second question is Do I think Bill will be there, third
question, do you think I can get another ride. Brandon's Parents are
divorced and his older brother is 8 years his senior. He's my Buddy and
miniature shadow, Bill and the rest of you planted a seed last year, and I
cant' thank you enough.
See you all in Brodhead.
Jake
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? |
Actually because of the exchange rate it is only the 86.4 year
anniversary of flight in Canada.
I'm here all week folks. Try the veal and don't forget to tip your
waiter.
"Is that all you plan to do for the rest of your life? Just cash for
rides?"
Do not archve.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jun 24, 2009, at 2:22 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] wrote:
> And not to leave out the first 100th year anniversary of flight in
> Canada EAA is having
> some special doings at Oshkosh to celebrate that event that took
> place in 1909. Bill Church is
> our resident Pietenpol poster boy and I think Harvey Rule too.
> Were you there for that first
> flight Harve ?
>
> http://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-02-23_canada.asp
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? |
There are days when-I feel like I was there for the first flight!Geeeeze
I 've been bumped up to poster boy!Wow,thanks a lot !!!!!=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A___
_____________________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aero
space Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronic
s.com" <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:22
:04 PM=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ?=0A
=0A=0AAnd not to leave out the first 100th year anniversary of flight in Ca
nada EAA is having=0Asome special doings at Oshkosh to celebrate that event
that took place in 1909. ---Bill Church is=0Aour resident Pietenpol
poster boy and I think Harvey Rule too.----- Were you there for t
hat first=0Aflight Harve ? =0A-=0Ahttp://www.eaa.org/news/2009/2009-02-23
=======================
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in.
Rodney
---- H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com> wrote:
> You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big
enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again.
________________________________
From: shad bell <aviatorbell@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and
that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans.
At least they named the T-6 after you.
Shad
P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think
Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.
--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
wrote:
From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco, Texas
for a fly-in.
Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B========================
_======================
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak ones!
"You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!"
Davy Crockett
Blue Skies,
Steve D.
----- Original Message -----
From: r.r.hall@cox.net
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
>
> Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in.
>
> Rodney
> ---- H RULE < wrote:
> > You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big
enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again.
> ________________________________
> From: shad bell <
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
>
>
> Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think,
and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans.
At least they named the T-6 after you.
>
> Shad
>
> P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think
Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.
>
> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote:
>
>
> From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM
>
>
>
> You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco,
Texas for a fly-in.
>
> Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
>
> Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B========================
_======================
>
>
>
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
Thank you for the suggestions. I do already have a drill press, jigsaw, drill,
and a few other tools. From what you are saying it could pay for itself in cost
savings over buying pre cut wood.
Rodney
---- K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net> wrote:
>
> If it makes you feel any better Rodney... the wood kit from AS&S is running $1225
right now, and that does not include all the capstrip for the wing ribs or
any plywood. I've spent ~$2000 on wood so far (about 25% of that being plywood),
which should be just about all the wood I need, but you can certainly reduce
that expense by ripping your own parts, which like Gary said, it may help
you justify the expense of a couple more tools. Oh, and his mention of a drill
press... another good one.
>
> I'm not sure where you are located, but keep you eye on Craigslist. Other than
the prostitution rings, there are some good areas on that site where you can
often find reasonable deals locally. I purchased most of my gas welding rig
on there for a reasonable amount. It is used equipment, but it works great.
Check it out.
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249820#249820
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
Get em Steve... their jealousy makes them sound a bit like whiners.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249873#249873
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
Wasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft? In my
day, class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L.
On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
> NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak
> ones!
>
> "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!"
> Davy Crockett
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: r.r.hall@cox.net
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 15:31
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>>
>> Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in.
>>
>> Rodney
>> ---- H RULE < wrote:
>>> You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still
>>> wouldn't be big enough.Drop it into one of our territories and
>>> you'd never find it again.
>> ________________________________
>> From: shad bell <
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
>>
>>
>> Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about
>> 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio
>> again. Just a friendly jab to all the Texans. At least they
>> named the T-6 after you.
>>
>> Shad
>>
>> P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war.,
>> Besides I think Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any
>> other state.
>>
>> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM
>>
>>
>> NGB" <
>>
>> You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to
>> go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in.
>>
>> Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
>>
>> Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and
>> B======================== _======================
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
At least Davy Crockett knew the equivalent place to Texas. :-P
---- "Dortch wrote:
>
> Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used to Weed out the weak ones!
>
> "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I am going to Texas!"
> Davy Crockett
>
> Blue Skies,
> Steve D.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: r.r.hall@cox.net
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 15:31
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> >
> > Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train in.
> >
> > Rodney
> > ---- H RULE < wrote:
> > > You drop Texas into my province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be
big enough.Drop it into one of our territories and you'd never find it again.
> > ________________________________
> > From: shad bell <
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
> >
> >
> > Where were those FIRST 2 aviators from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think,
and that 1st man on the moon yep Ohio again. Just a friendly jab to all the
Texans. At least they named the T-6 after you.
> >
> > Shad
> >
> > P.S. Don't take this too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think
Ohio has more Medal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.
> >
> > --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
> > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in
> > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> > Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:11 AM
> >
> >
> >
> > You got me all excited. Based on the subject line I was going to go to Waco,
Texas for a fly-in.
> >
> > Please be more accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P
> >
> > Texas is a lot like the state you live in. Only BIGGER and B========================
_======================
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
I haven't actually gone that route (buying lumber and ripping to size), but from
what I understand (and the answer to your question), those that have done this
have realized a significant savings, which could be applied to other necessities.
I just wanted to post my expense, which is recent, so that you would have an accurate
comparison. Perhaps someone who ripped their own capstrip and such could
post the cost for their wood, which would give a reasonable estimate on the
kind of savings you might realize by doing the same.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=249880#249880
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
Well, it's been a few years since I bought my rough-sawn boards (2 x 6
Sitka Spruce), so my memory might be a little foggy, but I believe I
paid less than $150 for enough spruce to build all of my ribs and ALMOST
the entire empennage (add one eighth of one Aircraft Spruce "Bargain Bag
of Spruce" to cover the shortage $5). I believe a 4' x 4' sheet of 1/16"
Finnish Birch ply for the rib gussets was $50. And I got my two 4' x 8'
sheets of 1/8" Okoume marine plywood for the tail gussets, fuse sides
and gussets, and one 4' x 8' sheet of 1/4" Okoume Marine plywood from
Noah's Marine for about $150 (no shipping charges because they are local
for me - shipping costs for plywood would be SIGNIFICANT).
I would say I definitely have less than $200 invested in materials for
my ribs (Sitka, ply and glue).
Aircraft Spruce's current price for 1/4" x 1/2" capstrip is 0.32 per
foot, and you'll need about 100 six-foot lengths = $192 (plus shipping)
just for the capstrips. There's a savings there, but it isn't huge. And
I did have to spend several hours ripping all of that wood.
Bill "posterboy" C.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
No, Texan was the WW II-US name for the aircraft.- The British, Canadia
ns and rest of the Commonwealth called it the Harvard.=0A-Mike Volckmann
=0A=0A=0AGod is great, Beer is good, People are Crazy. Billy Currington =0A
=0A=0A=0A=0A________________________________=0AFrom: Marshall Lumsden <mlum
sden@charter.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, Jun
e 24, 2009 1:44:53 PM=0ASubject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio=0A=0A
t>=0A=0AWasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft?- In my
day, class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L.=0AOn Ju
n 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:=0A=0A> --> Pi
etenpol-List message posted by: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.
dortch@us.army.mil>=0A> =0A> Yes the Texan and the Texan II was and is used
to Weed out the weak ones!=0A> =0A> "You may all go to Hell! As for me, I
am going to Texas!"=0A> Davy Crockett=0A> =0A> Blue Skies,=0A> Steve D.=0A>
=0A> ----- Original Message -----=0A> From: r.r.hall@cox.net=0A> Date: Wed
nesday, June 24, 2009 15:31=0A> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Oh
io=0A> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A> =0A> =0A>> --> Pietenpol-List m
essage posted by: <=0A>> =0A>> Wasn't the T-6 Texan for Beginners to train
in.=0A>> =0A>> Rodney=0A>> ---- H RULE < wrote:=0A>>> You drop Texas into m
y province of Ontario twice and it still wouldn't be big enough.Drop it int
o one of our territories and you'd never find it again.=0A>> ______________
__________________=0A>> From: shad bell <=0A>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics
.com=0A>> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:05:56 PM=0A>> Subject: Re: Piete
npol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> Where were those FIRST 2 aviat
ors from, back about 1903.........OHIO I think, and that 1st man on the moo
n yep Ohio again.- Just a friendly jab to all the Texans.- At least the
y named the T-6 after you.=0A>> =0A>> Shad=0A>> =0A>> P.S. Don't take this
too serious, I don't want to start a war., Besides I think Ohio has more Me
dal of Honor reciepiants than any other state.=0A>> =0A>> --- On Wed, 6/24/
09, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB < wrote:=0A>> =0A>> =0A>> From: Dortch,
Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <=0A>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in=0A>>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0A>> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 10:1
D MAJ NG NG NGB" <=0A>> =0A>> You got me all excited. Based on the subject
line I was going to go to Waco, Texas for a fly-in.=0A>> =0A>> Please be m
ore accurate with your Subject!!! ;-P=0A>> =0A>> Texas is a lot like the st
ate you live in. Only BIGGER and B=============
===========- _============
============0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A>> =0A> =0A>
=======================
Message 35
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| Subject: | WACO fly-in Ohio |
Actually, I believe the real story is that North American designed the
plane in 1937, in response to a USAAF competition for a new basic
trainer, and the winning prototype was named the NA-26, and it went
into production as the BC-1. The Royal Air Force ordered many, and named
it the Harvard. In 1940, the USAAF renamed it the AT-6 (advanced
trainer), and it was in high demand. In 1942 North American needed to
build a new plant to handle the production, so they built a new factory
in Dallas, and from then on the AT-6 was known as the Texan. So, the
British (and Canadians) called it the Harvard, the Americans called it
the Texan (or AT-6), and the Australians, for some reason, called it the
Wirraway.
None of this, by the way, has ANYTHING to do with Pietenpols.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marshall
Lumsden
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
--> <mlumsden@charter.net>
Wasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft? In my day,
class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L.
On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: WACO fly-in Ohio |
good history. so much for my OF memory. thanks. Marshall L.
On Jun 24, 2009, at 3:00 PM, Bill Church wrote:
> <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>
> Actually, I believe the real story is that North American designed the
> plane in 1937, in response to a USAAF competition for a new basic
> trainer, and the winning prototype was named the NA-26, and it went
> into production as the BC-1. The Royal Air Force ordered many, and
> named
> it the Harvard. In 1940, the USAAF renamed it the AT-6 (advanced
> trainer), and it was in high demand. In 1942 North American needed to
> build a new plant to handle the production, so they built a new
> factory
> in Dallas, and from then on the AT-6 was known as the Texan. So, the
> British (and Canadians) called it the Harvard, the Americans called it
> the Texan (or AT-6), and the Australians, for some reason, called
> it the
> Wirraway.
> None of this, by the way, has ANYTHING to do with Pietenpols.
>
> Bill C.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> Marshall
> Lumsden
> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 4:45 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: WACO fly-in Ohio
>
> --> <mlumsden@charter.net>
>
> Wasn't "Texan" the name the British gave to this aircraft? In my day,
> class 42H at Luke, it was just the plain ol' AT6. Marshall L.
> On Jun 24, 2009, at 1:35 PM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB wrote:
>
>
Message 37
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| Subject: | Famous aviators origin |
Don't forget that Octave Chanute?was from ILLINOIS, and that HE gave the Wright
bros. a lot of advise.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: and don't forget those Canadian's eh ? |
Ik5vIHNpciBldmVyeXRoaW5nIEkgbWFrZSBnb2VzIGludG8gdGhlIGJ1aWxkaW5nIGEgbmV3IGFp
cnBsYW5lIGZvciBhaXIgYWNyb2JhdGljcyINClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNz
IEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEpvaG4gSG9m
bWFubiA8amhvZm1hbm5AcmVlc2dyb3VwaW5jLmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogV2VkLCAyNCBKdW4gMjAw
OSAxNDo0MzoyOSANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6
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aGVyZSBhbGwgd2VlayBmb2xrcy4gVHJ5IHRoZSB2ZWFsIGFuZCBkb24ndCBmb3JnZXQgdG8gdGlw
IHlvdXIgIA0Kd2FpdGVyLg0KDQoiSXMgdGhhdCBhbGwgeW91IHBsYW4gdG8gZG8gZm9yIHRoZSBy
ZXN0IG9mIHlvdXIgbGlmZT8gSnVzdCBjYXNoIGZvciAgDQpyaWRlcz8iDQoNCkRvIG5vdCBhcmNo
dmUuDQoNCg0KSm9obiBIb2ZtYW5uDQpWaWNlLVByZXNpZGVudCwgSW5mb3JtYXRpb24gVGVjaG5v
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MDANCk1hZGlzb24sIFdJIDUzNzE4DQpQaG9uZTogNjA4LjQ0My4yNDY4IGV4dCAxNTANCkZheDog
NjA4LjQ0My4yNDc0DQpFbWFpbDogamhvZm1hbm5AcmVlc2dyb3VwaW5jLmNvbQ0KDQpPbiBKdW4g
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aGUgZmlyc3QgMTAwdGggeWVhciBhbm5pdmVyc2FyeSBvZiBmbGlnaHQgaW4gIA0KPiBDYW5hZGEg
RUFBIGlzIGhhdmluZw0KPiBzb21lIHNwZWNpYWwgZG9pbmdzIGF0IE9zaGtvc2ggdG8gY2VsZWJy
YXRlIHRoYXQgZXZlbnQgdGhhdCB0b29rICANCj4gcGxhY2UgaW4gMTkwOS4gICAgQmlsbCBDaHVy
Y2ggaXMNCj4gb3VyIHJlc2lkZW50IFBpZXRlbnBvbCBwb3N0ZXIgYm95IGFuZCBJIHRoaW5rIEhh
cnZleSBSdWxlIHRvby4gICAgICAgDQo+IFdlcmUgeW91IHRoZXJlIGZvciB0aGF0IGZpcnN0DQo+
IGZsaWdodCBIYXJ2ZSA/DQo+DQo+IGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuZWFhLm9yZy9uZXdzLzIwMDkvMjAwOS0w
Mi0yM19jYW5hZGEuYXNwDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+DQoNCg0K
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Building with wood question |
My thoughts:
-
If you are looking at buying tools to build only the plane AND you plan on
buying the pre-dimensioned wood from a place like Aircraft Spruce, you may
get away with out a tables saw.- If you go that route, you won't need it
for the ribs or wings anyway which will give you time to save money and sti
ll be building.
-
I personally believe the compound miter saw is the most important tool. I h
ave used that tool the most and have made all my cross cuts with it. (a sli
ding compound is what I have) I have also made many, many compound cuts wit
h it and I don't know of a better tool to do so.
-
A drill press is next. You want your holes to be perpendicular AND straight
and the drill press will do it. You will need to layout your holes and dri
ll prior to assembly. (like on the spars)- There will be cases when you'l
l need to drill free hand, but the vast majority can be done on the drill p
ress, if you plan right.- Additionally, you can buy a complete set of var
ious size and grit drum sanders to use on the press and you won't need to b
uy a separate bench sander.-
-
Of course, if you buy bulk and make all of your own pieces, then you'll nee
d a table saw, planer, etc.
Message 40
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| Subject: | Speaking of Wood Selection... |
Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
(grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way before:
1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is
the correct 'Me"?
2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
center of the log...
3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
shopping for DF?
OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
"still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
peetenhauller or something..."
And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
lumber yard.
I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here locally...
Any advice always deeply appreciated.
Mark
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Mark go to a local lumberyard that stocks multiple varieties of wood. I bought
all of mine including some cedar for the turtledeck stringers from a local lumberyard
called Mead-Clark. They also ordered 3mm (1/8 inch) and 6mm (1/4 inch)
marine mahogony for me. I paid about a third of the price for the marine ply
that you would pay if you bought it from AS&S or any of the aircraft houses.
The kiln dried Doug Fir total cost was right at $300 for it all (not including
the sheets of ply mentioned above). They also allowed me to go through their
DF and select the boards I wanted. All of mine were very good quarter sawn planks.
I know some of the local lumberyards won't let you select from their stock
but there are some that will. Good luck finding one. Also ask Gary Boothe where
he got his popular; from his photos it all looked very good as well.
Jim B.
On Jun 24, 2009, mark.rbrts1@gmail.com wrote:
Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
(grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way before:
1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is
the correct 'Me"?
2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
center of the log...
3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
shopping for DF?
OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
"still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
peetenhauller or something..."
And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
lumber yard.
I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here locally...
Any advice always deeply appreciated.
Mark
Message 42
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... |
Thanks Jim. I haven't htought about the plywood yet. I was wondering
what i'd ask for if not ordering from AS&S...
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Jim<jimboyer@hughes.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jim Boyer
> Santa Rosa, CA
> Pietenpol builder with Corvair
>
> Mark go to a local lumberyard that stocks multiple varieties of wood. I bought
all of mine including some cedar for the turtledeck stringers from a local lumberyard
called Mead-Clark. They also ordered 3mm (1/8 inch) and 6mm (1/4 inch)
marine mahogony for me. I paid about a third of the price for the marine ply
that you would pay if you bought it from AS&S or any of the aircraft houses.
The kiln dried Doug Fir total cost was right at $300 for it all (not including
the sheets of ply mentioned above). They also allowed me to go through their
DF and select the boards I wanted. All of mine were very good quarter sawn planks.
I know some of the local lumberyards won't let you select from their stock
but there are some that will. Good luck finding one. Also ask Gary Boothe where
he got his popular; from his photos it all looked very good as well.
> Jim B.
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2009, mark.rbrts1@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
> wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
> now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
> wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
> Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
> (grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
> local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
> pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
>
> So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way before:
>
> 1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
> potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
> that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
> this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
> months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
> won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is
> the correct 'Me"?
>
> 2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
> x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
> wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
> 4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
> proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
> direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
> really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
> verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
> correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
> rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
> center of the log...
>
> 3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
> question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
> train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
> yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
> smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
> memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
> shopping for DF?
>
>
> OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
> contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
> specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
> really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
> him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
> Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
> "still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
> hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
> website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
> of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
> I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
> 4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
> Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
> know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
> I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
> kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
> peetenhauller or something..."
>
> And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
> lumber yard.
>
> I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here locally...
>
> Any advice always deeply appreciated.
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 43
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|
| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... |
Mark, go to Higgin's Lumber in Fresno.- They will be able to help you.
--- On Wed, 6/24/09, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...
Thanks Jim. I haven't htought about the plywood yet. I was wondering
what i'd ask for if not ordering from AS&S...
Thanks!
Mark
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Jim<jimboyer@hughes.net> wrote:
>
>
> Jim Boyer
> Santa Rosa, CA
> Pietenpol builder with Corvair
>
> Mark go to a local -lumberyard that stocks multiple varieties of wood.
I bought all of mine including some cedar for the turtledeck stringers from
a local lumberyard called Mead-Clark. They also ordered 3mm (1/8 inch) and
6mm (1/4 inch) marine mahogony for me. I paid about a third of the price f
or the marine ply that you would pay if you bought it from AS&S or any of t
he aircraft houses. The kiln dried Doug Fir total cost was right at $300 fo
r it all (not including the sheets of ply mentioned above). They also allow
ed me to go through their DF and select the boards I wanted. All of mine we
re very good quarter sawn planks. I know some of the local lumberyards won'
t let you select from their stock but there are some that will. Good luck f
inding one. Also ask Gary Boothe where he got his popular; from his photos
it all looked very good as well.
> Jim B.
>
>
> On Jun 24, 2009, mark.rbrts1@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
> wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
> now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
> wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
> Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
> (grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
> local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
> pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
>
> So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way bef
ore:
>
> 1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
> potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
> that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
> this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
> months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
> won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." - What is
> the correct 'Me"?
>
> 2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
> x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
> wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
> 4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
> proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
> direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
> really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
> verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
> correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
> rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
> center of the log...
>
> 3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
> question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
> train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
> yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
> smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
> memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
> shopping for DF?
>
>
> OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
> contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
> specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
> really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
> him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
> Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
> "still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
> hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
> website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
> of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
> I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
> 4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
> Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
> know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
> I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
> kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
> peetenhauller or something..."
>
> And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
> lumber yard.
>
> I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here locally
...
>
> Any advice always deeply appreciated.
>
> Mark
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... |
Thanks Mike.I called them a couple of days ago and one of their sales
reps said to fax her a list and she'd see what they could get in Sitka
Spruce. I didn't ask her about fir, and I bet they have that in stock.
Thanks for the reminder about them. I'll call tomorrow...
Mark
On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:52 PM, Michael Groah<dskogrover@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Mark, go to Higgin's Lumber in Fresno. They will be able to help you.
>
>
> --- On Wed, 6/24/09, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wednesday, June 24, 2009, 8:31 PM
>
>
> Thanks Jim. I haven't htought about the plywood yet. I was wondering
> what i'd ask for if not ordering from AS&S...
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mark
>
> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 8:12 PM, Jim<jimboyer@hughes.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim Boyer
>> Santa Rosa, CA
>> Pietenpol builder with Corvair
>>
>> Mark go to a local lumberyard that stocks multiple varieties of wood. I
>> bought all of mine including some cedar for the turtledeck stringers from a
>> local lumberyard called Mead-Clark. They also ordered 3mm (1/8 inch) and 6mm
>> (1/4 inch) marine mahogony for me. I paid about a third of the price for the
>> marine ply that you would pay if you bought it from AS&S or any of the
>> aircraft houses. The kiln dried Doug Fir total cost was right at $300 for it
>> all (not including the sheets of ply mentioned above). They also allowed me
>> to go through their DF and select the boards I wanted. All of mine were very
>> good quarter sawn planks. I know some of the local lumberyards won't let you
>> select from their stock but there are some that will. Good luck finding one.
>> Also ask Gary Boothe where he got his popular; from his photos it all looked
>> very good as well.
>> Jim B.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 24, 2009, mark.rbrts1@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
>> wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
>> now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
>> wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
>> Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
>> (grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
>> local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
>> pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
>>
>> So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way
>> before:
>>
>> 1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
>> potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
>> that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
>> this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
>> months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
>> won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is
>> the correct 'Me"?
>>
>> 2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
>> x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
>> wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
>> 4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
>> proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
>> direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
>> really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
>> verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
>> correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
>> rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
>> center of the log...
>>
>> 3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
>> question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
>> train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
>> yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
>> smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
>> memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
>> shopping for DF?
>>
>>
>> OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
>> contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
>> specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
>> really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
>> him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
>> Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
>> "still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
>> hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
>> website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
>> of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
>> I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
>> 4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
>> Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
>> know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
>> I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
>> kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
>> peetenhauller or something..."
>>
>> And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
>> lumber yard.
>>
>> I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here
>> locally...
>>
>> Any advice always deeply appreciated.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>>
> &gvigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato
> - MATRONICS WEBnbsp;- List Contribution Web Site ;
> &nb; http:=======================
>
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... |
4X4, 1X6, etc is what's known as "nominal" size and it's
called that because the original rough cut piece was that
exact size. Once it has been planed, whether as you buy
it or plane it yourself the real, measured dimension is
now 3 1/3" X 3 1/2" or 3/4" X 5 1/2". So you're not
gonna get four one inch square pieces out of that 4X4
you bought.
To minimize warpage the grain should be as close to
90 to the face side on a wide board like a wing spar or
90 across a square piece like a fuselage stringer.
Fir can be a bit of a crap shoot due to the presence of
pitch pockets. They come in all sizes and can hide in
the smallest piece of wood. I used Hemlock which is
used mainly as trim wood. In shorter lengths for the
tail feathers, cap strips, fuselage cross bracing, it's
easy to find straight, clear grain. The longerons are
a tad more difficult. I used 1 1/16"X 1 1/16" lengths.
Wonderful stuff to work with. Oh, yes, it also is made
in 1/4"X 1/2" strips.
I lucked into a fuel filter with 3/8" fittings. With the
steel bowl and heavy filter it was quite heavy. I also
found a " bowl" that came off a Chev truck wheel that
is much lighter than the original. I've eliminated the
huge filter element and will make a screen for it. I
aquired some aeroquip made up hoses and 3/8" blue
flare fittings for about ten bucks a while back. I've
settled on the carb orientation so the throttle arm is
where I want it and cut off one end of a hose, took
apart the fitting, cut the hose to length and put the
fitting on it. The carb is now 90 from where it is
in the pic. The whole thing cost about $20. It just
need a proper center bolt.
Clif
"Imagination grows by exercise, and contrary to common
belief, is more powerful in the mature than in the young."
~ Sir Paul McCartney
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Roberts" <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...
>
> Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
> wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
> now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
> wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
> Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
> (grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
> local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
> pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
>
> So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way
> before:
>
> 1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
> potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
> that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
> this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
> months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
> won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is
> the correct 'Me"?
>
> 2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
> x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
> wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
> 4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
> proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
> direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
> really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
> verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
> correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
> rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
> center of the log...
>
> 3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
> question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
> train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
> yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
> smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
> memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
> shopping for DF?
>
>
> OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
> contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
> specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
> really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
> him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
> Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
> "still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
> hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
> website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
> of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
> I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
> 4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
> Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
> know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
> I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
> kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
> peetenhauller or something..."
>
> And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
> lumber yard.
>
> I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here
> locally...
>
> Any advice always deeply appreciated.
>
> Mark
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
12:49:00
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Oops! I apologize. I got carried away and didn't cut the
message stream from the last message.
As John Cleese said a lot in Faulty Towers, "Silly Me!"
Clif
Message 47
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| Subject: | Wood for a peetenhauller |
Mark,
Congratulations on ordering the plans for your "peetenhauller!" Life will
never be the same...
Next time you go to Home Depot, you need to go to the isle that has the Good
Lumber. That's where you will find the poplar, fir, pine and oak that finish
carpenters or cabinet makers are looking for. If you are seeing 2x4's and
4x4's, you're in the wrong aisle.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 7:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection...
Plans were ordered yesterday, and I am now looking to go get some
wood. I believe I am going to give doug fir a try. I can get started
now with Doug Fir, and perhaps some poplar as well. I have the EAA
wood book, and also one of the Tony B. books on Building Sport
Aircraft. I have read the articles about wood and it's selection
(grain direction and run out). I went to Home Depot today to test my
local supply and found they only have Green Doug Fir for all but one
pile of 2 x 4's which were kiln dried.
So I have a few questions from those of you that have walked this way
before:
1. I am assuming I will need to buy Kiln Dried wood to prevent any
potential warping of structures after assembly. Part of me says "Yep,
that's right" ... Another part of me says " You ain't gonna finish
this plane until 3 good Fresno Summers (90+ degrees for about 4
months) and once the fuse structure is in it's framework state it
won't warp because it will be in the structural matrix..." What is
the correct 'Me"?
2. Clear Doug Fir, or the stuff on the rack: I saw a few 2 x 4's and 4
x 4's that appeared to have the correct grain density and run out, but
wrong grain direction for the board it was cut into. However, if that
4 x 4 was cut into the proper sized 1 x 1's, they would have the
proper grain direction for the longerons. I am assuming that the grain
direction is relative to the board that ultimately gets used, not
really the initial cut. I know this seems obvious, but without
verification, I am not sure I am interpreting what I am reading
correctly. It seems logical that all the wood produced could be
rift-cut lumber if you could saw the log into boards radiallydown the
center of the log...
3. Knots in the wood: I know the literature deals with this, but my
question is more about Doug fir: the stuff I used to load from the
train cars in Fayetteville NC when I worked in my youth as a lumber
yard sales guy used to be very nice and pretty. Few knots and very
smooth. The stuff I saw at Home Depot was not like the stuff in my
memory. Do you guys have any recommendations for what to ask for when
shopping for DF?
OK... Now a funny aside: I stopped a guy that worked there at the
contractors booth to ask about what I could get if I ordered the wood
specially. We discussed the purpose was to build an airplane. "No,
really: What are you going to use this for?" he asks. After assuring
him I was not crazy, and leading him to a website to view a couple of
Piets in construction, he calls his wood supplier to see if he can
"still get the smooth stuff in those sizes". The conversation was
hysterical, and I wished I had it recorded so I could post on my
website so yo could hear it, as a one sided conversation from my side
of the counter. "Yeah hi Sandy, it's John. Fine, and you? Great. Yeah,
I have this guy here looking for some clear Doug Fir, in 2 x 4 and 4 x
4 16's and 8's, and I need to know if you have any really clean ones.
Un huh. Yeah. Doug Fir. No, he needs them with no knots. Clean. I
know. No, he's building an airplane. An Airplane. No a real one. No,
I'm not kidding. Really. I saw it on the internet. No Sandy, I'm not
kidding. Look, can you see if you can find some? No, it's called a
peetenhauller or something..."
And on it went. Can you imagine what BHP must have gone through at HIS
lumber yard.
I might be needing to shop at a more specialized lumber yard here locally...
Any advice always deeply appreciated.
Mark
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