---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/27/09: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:38 AM - Re: Poplar (Yellow) and a corvair engine (Steve Glass) 2. 05:10 AM - Speaking of Poplar (tbyh@aol.com) 3. 05:20 AM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (amsafetyc@aol.com) 4. 09:40 AM - Re: Speaking of Wood Selection... (Mark Roberts) 5. 09:42 AM - Axels (Stephen Walton) 6. 09:51 AM - Re: Poplar (Yellow) and a corvair engine (Mark Roberts) 7. 10:09 AM - Re: Axels (Jack Phillips) 8. 11:01 AM - Re: Re: Pietenpol-List cub gear with die press springs (Jim) 9. 11:39 AM - Re: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List cub gear with die press springs (Jeff Boatright) 10. 01:35 PM - (no subject) (Isablcorky@aol.com) 11. 01:51 PM - Re: (no subject) (Jack Phillips) 12. 02:19 PM - Re: Axels, ahem, axles!! (Gene Rambo) 13. 03:21 PM - Magazine Cover - Bill Rewey (John Egan) 14. 04:13 PM - Re: (no subject) () 15. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List cub gear with die press springs (Jim) 16. 05:42 PM - list member Steve Dortch (Oscar Zuniga) 17. 05:51 PM - Re: list member Steve Dortch (Gary Boothe) 18. 06:19 PM - Re: (no subject) (Isablcorky@aol.com) 19. 07:04 PM - Re: (no subject) (Gary Boothe) 20. 07:35 PM - wheels-- Corky (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 21. 07:42 PM - Re: wheels-- Corky (Isablcorky@aol.com) 22. 08:03 PM - Re: Axels, ahem, axles!! (gcardinal) 23. 08:10 PM - Re: Axels, ahem, axles!! (gcardinal) 24. 08:13 PM - Brodhead Folks in Ohio (shad bell) 25. 08:23 PM - Re: Axels (gcardinal) 26. 08:36 PM - Re: Continental Motor mount plans-- downthrust specifically (gcardinal) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:38:56 AM PST US From: Steve Glass Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Poplar (Yellow) and a corvair engine Form a boatbuilders perspective poplar is not used that often because it te nds to absorb water and rot. If it is used I think diligence with varnishi ng and drainage is extra important. Steve in a very damp Maine. > Date: Fri=2C 26 Jun 2009 04:56:30 -0700 > From: ameetsavant@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar (Yellow) and a corvair engine > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > > > Mark=2C > > I can understand your excitement. I am also starting on my project but I am spending a lot less time and effort on it than you are (so envious!). I' ve been researching Poplar too and found that Sitka Spruce and Yellow Popla r at 12% moisture content are comparable in density. I believe it is near 2 8 lbs/cu ft=2C with the Poplar fractionally heavier. > > If you want to get an authoritative source on the subject there is none b etter than http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ You'll see why when you visit the link . They have amazing documentation on every aspect of building with wood. > > >From a numbers perspective the Poplar seems to be a almost direct replac ement for Spruce=2C yet many designers stick with Spruce. I wonder why it i s not as popular=2C especially given the cost. > > Regards=2C > Ameet > Omaha=2C NE > > --- On Fri=2C 6/26/09=2C Mark Roberts wrote: > > > Now a poplar question: I looked at the page from AC43.13 > > that Gary > > Boothe sent me that lists Poplar (Yellow) as a potential > > substitute > > wood. I see a number of you are building with Poplar=2C and > > just wanted > > to check on the weight difference. I see it is slightly > > less strong > > than Sitka=2C but how much heavier is it over all? Since the > > plane is a > > bit over built (design wise) I think poplar sounds like a > > better > > choice than fir for the majority of the build. > > > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Poplar From: tbyh@aol.com Some years ago a fellow cut down a big poplar tree that he grew in his yard, had it dried and milled and built his entire Pietenpol out of that tree. I forget what happened to the plane -- I think it was lost in a fire. There was an article about it in one of the old newsletters. Poplar, Wis., is also home to Major Richard Bong, America's ace of aces. They have a great museum with a P-38 at nearby Superior and tells Dick Bong's story. So if you're ever in the Duluth-Superior area, stop in there. Fred B. La Crosse, WI ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:20:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection... From: amsafetyc@aol.com Insects don't like poplar so it has a natural resistance to infestation. From what I have read. I like that part too. It keeps one from building an inferior model John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Mark Roberts Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection... Yep: Kiln dried and stored in a warehouse. Sweet! And, I went to a new computational websearch engine called Wolframalpha.com to look up the weight difference in Poplar and Sitka Spruce. It spits out the density of Sitka at .335g/cm3, and poplar at .38g/cm3 ... And the strength properties listed are extremely close. So I don't think I'll be adding a bunch of weight to the plane, and keeping the dimensions the same on all wood parts would yield about as much weight as if I was sloppy with glue or something. The difference (if I am looking at this properly) is .38 minus .335 or a difference of .045/cm3 or about 13 percent heavier...13 pounds per 100... for a dollar savings of a lot! On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 3:36 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > > Now you're talkin'!! By the way...that was dried wood, wasn't it? Not stored > outside? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:29 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection... > > > :o) > > Well, I went to the lumber yard today (the REAL lumber yard where they > stock un-faced wood...not the big box depots) and saw what I've been > looking for. They had unfinished poplar in large stacks, banded with > straps to keep it straight, and in more sizes than I could imagine. > > And, the guy told me that for the 5/4" (1.25") unfinished poplar, it > is only $1.80 per boardfoot. I figured I didn't need anything thicker > for the bulk of the fuse than 1" thick stuff, so that's what I am > looking at getting. OK, so a 16 foot length if the stuff, 12" wide is > only $36 and I get to plain it down and saw it up myself. I'm gonna > figure out how many little sticks I need from it, but i am not sure > I'll need over $100 bucks worth of the stuff for just the fuse. > > Now, I am off to determine the relative strength to weight of poplar > vs Sitka... Where's my wood book.... > > Mark > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:39 AM, wrote: >> >> Go Mark, build man build >> >> John >> ------Original Message------ >> From: Mark Roberts >> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >> To: Pietenpol builders Board >> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board >> Sent: Jun 26, 2009 12:25 PM >> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection... >> >> >> Thanks for the drawing Bill. I will most likely be looking for 2x >> Poplar, as I think it will work best for what I want to do. Weight >> wise, it should be close, and as BHP over designed the strength in >> this plane, I think should be plenty strong enough. And, I can afford >> to get started :o) >> >> Mark >> >> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 5:12 AM, Bill Church > wrote: >>> You're right, Clif. >>> You can't get four 1x1's out of 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" ... You can get NINE! >>> (see attached sketch) >>> >>> I assume you meant that you can't get four 1" pieces from a 3 1/2" >>> board. >>> >>> Bill C. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clif >>> Dawson >>> Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 11:05 PM >>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection... >>> >>> --> >>> >>> Sorry, but you can't get four 1X1's out of 3 1/2" X 3 1/2". >>> And you're right, ripping a square like that is definitely harder than >>> working with 2X. It's moot for me anyway, as there isn't that much left >>> to do on my fuselage. >>> >>> My next big project in that regard is the fiberglass fuel tank. >>> >>> Clif >>> >>> Cliff.. It wouldnt be too hard to get 4 longerons >>>> out of a 4X4 provided your saw will cut through it. If you use 2x >>>> lumber it would be a little easier to work with, >>>> >>>> Ben Charvet >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:40:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Speaking of Wood Selection... From: Mark Roberts I've had my share of Athlete's tongue too :o) On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:20 PM, Clif Dawson wrote: > > Oh Crap! There goes my brain!!!! > > I do SO love the taste of socks. > > Clif... > > > You're right, Clif. > You can't get four 1x1's out of 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" ... You can get NINE! > (see attached sketch) > > I assume you meant that you can't get four 1" pieces from a 3 1/2" > board. > Bill C. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:42:47 AM PST US From: "Stephen Walton" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:51:48 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar (Yellow) and a corvair engine From: Mark Roberts Steve, there's a perspective I hadn't considered. We live in Central California, and it's a dry (too dry) place. However, I also plan to hanger it, and varnish all the parts first. We grow approx. 25% of the nations food right here in Fresno county. Can you believe that? One county, 25% of the food. I thought it was a joke or an exaggeration, but it is true (unless the farm bureau is lying... It still sounds high to me). It is possible because of the growing conditions, and the fact that in the 50's/60's they built an aqua-canal system to send water here, because we are an old dried up lake bed with no real water of our own. Big news here is that the government has diverted the water this year (a drought year for the 4th or 5th year in a row) due to an environmental law protecting a bait fish that is common in many parts of the US, but would be somehow endangered in the delta where it lives now. Now they are plowing the crops under for lack of water, and food prices nation wide are about to go up quite a bit as a result. So, I am wishing we had some rain here to rot my wood :o) All that because I saw your tag line "Steve in a very damp Maine." Mark On Sat, Jun 27, 2009 at 3:35 AM, Steve Glass wrote: > Form a boatbuilders perspective poplar is not used that often because it > tends to absorb water and rot. If it is used I think diligence with > varnishing and drainage is extra important. > > Steve in a very damp Maine. > > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 04:56:30 -0700 > > From: ameetsavant@yahoo.com > > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Poplar (Yellow) and a corvair engine > > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > > > ameetsavant@yahoo.com> > > > > > > Mark, > > > > I can understand your excitement. I am also starting on my project but I > am spending a lot less time and effort on it than you are (so envious!). > I've been researching Poplar too and found that Sitka Spruce and Yellow > Poplar at 12% moisture content are comparable in density. I believe it is > near 28 lbs/cu ft, with the Poplar fractionally heavier. > > > > If you want to get an authoritative source on the subject there is none > better than http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/ You'll see why when you visit the > link. They have amazing documentation on every aspect of building with wood. > > > > >From a numbers perspective the Poplar seems to be a almost direct > replacement for Spruce, yet many designers stick with Spruce. I wonder why > it is not as popular, especially given the cost. > > > > Regards, > > Ameet > > Omaha, NE > > > > --- On Fri, 6/26/09, Mark Roberts wrote: > > > > > Now a poplar question: I looked at the page from AC43.13 > > > that Gary > > > Boothe sent me that lists Poplar (Yellow) as a potential > > > substitute > > > wood. I see a number of you are building with Poplar, and > > > just wanted > > > to check on the weight difference. I see it is slightly > > > less strong > > > than Sitka, but how much heavier is it over all? Since the > > > plane is a > > > bit over built (design wise) I think poplar sounds like a > > > better > > > choice than fir for the majority of the build. > > > > > > > >===================== > >================ > > > > > > > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:18 AM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Axels Steve, My axle is 1-1/2" diameter, .188" wall 4130, heat treated to 160,000 psi tensile strength. The loading of the axle is a bit unusual - if you look at a shear and moment diagram for such a structure, the axle is under a constant bending moment from bungee to bungee, which means the stress is constant all along the axle. Landing loads can put some pretty high stresses on it (I broke my first axle during a forced landing, hence the heat treating of the new axle). As for windshield design, the curved design is considerably lighter and infinitely easier to make than the framed type. It all depends on what you want. If you want good performance, build a Piet with standard "Cub-type" gear, curved windshields, etc. If you want the "classic" look, go with the sraight axle, wire wheels (with or without covers) and framed windshields, but understand that all those things add weight and hamper performance, particularly on hot days. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Walton Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:01:34 AM PST US From: Jim Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List cub gear with die press springs Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair What are those of you with the cub gear and die press springs in the shock struts using to lube the inner tube that slides up and down as the spring compresses back and forth? Just few drops of oil, light grease, nothing, what? thanks, Jim On Jun 27, 2009, pietflyr@bellsouth.net wrote: Steve, My axle is 1-1/2 diameter, .188 wall 4130, heat treated to 160,000 psi tensile strength. The loading of the axle is a bit unusual if you look at a shear and moment diagram for such a structure, the axle is under a constant bending moment from bungee to bungee, which means the stress is constant all along the axle. Landing loads can put some pretty high stresses on it (I broke my first axle during a forced landing, hence the heat treating of the new axle). As for windshield design, the curved design is considerably lighter and infinitely easier to make than the framed type. It all depends on what you want. If you want good performance, build a Piet with standard Cub-type gear, curved windshields, etc. If you want the classic look, go with the sraight axle, wire wheels (with or without covers) and framed windshields, but understand that all those things add weight and hamper performance, particularly on hot days. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Walton Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:39:39 AM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List cub gear with die press springs I try to use light oil, but the truth of the matter is that enough "stuff" flies, drools, and drips back from the engine that things stay fairly well lubed regardless. >- >What are those of you with the cub gear and die press springs in the >shock struts using to lube the inner tube that slides up and down as >the spring compresses back and forth? Just few drops of oil, light >grease, nothing, what? > >thanks, >Jim > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:35:37 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Pieters, Looking for pics of a Piet with regular gear, coil spring shocks and motorcycle wheels. Any info on such an animal will sure be appreciated. don't remember any but it's been a long time since I Pietered. Using 1/2 gallon milk jugs is THE answer for wing flotation. You can fill those spaces entirely. That thing would float forever Corky, an old Pieter **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:51:00 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Corky, Sounds like the setup Walt Evans has on his Pietenpol, except I believe he has bungees instead of Die springs Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Pieters, Looking for pics of a Piet with regular gear, coil spring shocks and motorcycle wheels. Any info on such an animal will sure be appreciated. don't remember any but it's been a long time since I Pietered. Using 1/2 gallon milk jugs is THE answer for wing flotation. You can fill those spaces entirely. That thing would float forever Corky, an old Pieter _____ An Excellent22585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/de fault.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:19:12 PM PST US From: "Gene Rambo" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels, ahem, axles!! hmmmm, .188 wall thickness? I'm not looking at them right now, but what do the plans call for?? I don't know, but I think I screwed up and used thinner wall tubing. Already painted and installed, but if I need to replace or put a doubler tube inside at least past the bungees . . . Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Axels Steve, My axle is 1-1/2" diameter, .188" wall 4130, heat treated to 160,000 psi tensile strength. The loading of the axle is a bit unusual - if you look at a shear and moment diagram for such a structure, the axle is under a constant bending moment from bungee to bungee, which means the stress is constant all along the axle. Landing loads can put some pretty high stresses on it (I broke my first axle during a forced landing, hence the heat treating of the new axle). As for windshield design, the curved design is considerably lighter and infinitely easier to make than the framed type. It all depends on what you want. If you want good performance, build a Piet with standard "Cub-type" gear, curved windshields, etc. If you want the "classic" look, go with the sraight axle, wire wheels (with or without covers) and framed windshields, but understand that all those things add weight and hamper performance, particularly on hot days. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Walton Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:42 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:21:29 PM PST US From: John Egan Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magazine Cover - Bill Rewey For interest, I've attached a photo of Bill Rewey providing a ride in his P ietenpol as recently appeared on the cover of "Midwest Flyer" magazine. The re was no article in the magazine-related to the photo, but it's nice to see a Piet on the cover.=0A=0ASee Bill at EAA Airventure speaking on behalf of Pietenpol building.=0A=0A7/28/2009 10:00 AM - 11:15 AM Pietenpol Buildi ng 009 Honda Generator Pavilion Bill Rewey =0A-=0Ajohn egan=0Ain wisconsi n=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:13:43 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Hi Corky Several of the Pietenpols built in the UK have the coil spring and motorcycle wheels. See http://westcoastpiet.com/new_page_27.htm http://westcoastpiet.com/g-buco_(Alan%20James).htm http://westcoastpiet.com/g-ecvb.htm Some U.S. based Pietenpols that I can think of http://westcoastpiet.com/new_page_5.htm http://westcoastpiet.com/nx899ac.htm http://westcoastpiet.com/hank.htm http://westcoastpiet.com/new_page_50.htm http://westcoastpiet.com/wayne,_bob_anf_jeff.htm http://westcoastpiet.com/new_page_58.htm Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Isablcorky@aol.com To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 1:33 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Pieters, Looking for pics of a Piet with regular gear, coil spring shocks and motorcycle wheels. Any info on such an animal will sure be appreciated. don't remember any but it's been a long time since I Pietered. Using 1/2 gallon milk jugs is THE answer for wing flotation. You can fill those spaces entirely. That thing would float forever Corky, an old Pieter ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- An Excellent22585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/ pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:36:16 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Pietenpol-List cub gear with die press springs Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair Thanks Jeff, I hadn't really thought of engine drips, etc. from oil changes and all lubing the sliders. Probably only need to lube them for the initial setup and check after. Jim On Jun 27, 2009, jboatri@emory.edu wrote: I try to use light oil, but the truth of the matter is that enough "stuff" flies, drools, and drips back from the engine that things stay fairly well lubed regardless. >- >What are those of you with the cub gear and die press springs in the >shock struts using to lube the inner tube that slides up and down as >the spring compresses back and forth? Just few drops of oil, light >grease, nothing, what? > >thanks, >Jim > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:42:37 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: list member Steve Dortch Howdy, Pieters; This is not directly Piet related other than it has to do with a member of this list, Steve Dortch. Steve's hangar is one down from mine and he's had a ride in my Piet. Anyway, today his V-tail Bonanza took to the air after what seems like years of he and his kids and dog laboring over getting it airworthy again. When I got to the hangar about 1 PM to continue working on my A75, there were guys with pencils and checklists crawling all over Steve's airplane and a while later, it took off. Engine didn't miss a beat, the airplane must have been over the airport for a half hour, and I guess that means everything stayed in the green and he's back in the air again. Having the Bo back will probably break Steve of his need for slow flight so he'll probably drop off the list now ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:51:33 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: list member Steve Dortch Not to worry, Oscar. Fast cars, fast women, fast planes...they all come back eventually... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar Zuniga Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:42 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: list member Steve Dortch Howdy, Pieters; This is not directly Piet related other than it has to do with a member of this list, Steve Dortch. Steve's hangar is one down from mine and he's had a ride in my Piet. Anyway, today his V-tail Bonanza took to the air after what seems like years of he and his kids and dog laboring over getting it airworthy again. When I got to the hangar about 1 PM to continue working on my A75, there were guys with pencils and checklists crawling all over Steve's airplane and a while later, it took off. Engine didn't miss a beat, the airplane must have been over the airport for a half hour, and I guess that means everything stayed in the green and he's back in the air again. Having the Bo back will probably break Steve of his need for slow flight so he'll probably drop off the list now ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:19:00 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Thanks, that will help me get started. Now the big question. When I approach the motorcycle boneyard. What make bike and wheel size would be considered the strongest for gearing a Piet Corky **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:34 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) I'm not airborne, yet, but I have 21" Sportster wheels. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Isablcorky@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 6:16 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: (no subject) Thanks, that will help me get started. Now the big question. When I approach the motorcycle boneyard. What make bike and wheel size would be considered the strongest for gearing a Piet Corky _____ An Excellent Credit Score is786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26 hmpgID=62%26bcd=JuneExcfooterNO62>See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:45 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: wheels-- Corky Corky-- if you can, ask for ANYTHING that rides on aluminum alloy rims---they'll be lighter and they can be polished to appear like they are chromed. I have 19" aluminum alloy rims on mine. 40 spokes per wheel are BEST but most bikes don't come in those anymore....32 is the standard I believe anymore. I happened upon a set of 40 spoke aluminum alloy rims after searching 3 motorcycle boneyards and many stores. Sun (you'd have to Google them) sells alum. rims off the shelf--any size---perfect if you're willing to spend the money. You can always just go to the guy who made the wheels (and airplanes) for the movie Flyboys....he sells wire wheel kits with all you need including a video on how to lace and true them. http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/HeavyDutyWheels.html Wheel kits ready to be laced with 2 tires, 2 tubes and 2 bearing sets sell for $495. This also includes a step-by-step detailed video. The weight of 2 hubs is "about" 2 lbs. (We couldn't get them to register on a digital scale.) The weight of ONE wheel complete with tire and tube is 18 lbs. So, two COMPLETE wheels will weigh 36 lbs. NOW, TO SEE THE FINISHED, READY-TO-GO PRODUCT CLICK HERE ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:39 PM PST US From: Isablcorky@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wheels-- Corky Thanks Mikee Good to hear that Yankee twang again after so long The ole rebel **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! eExcfooterNO62) ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:27 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels, ahem, axles!! The axle on NX18235 is 1 1/2" X .120 wall thickness and is not heat treated. No brakes are installed so the length of axle extending beyond the bungee's is shorter than a brake equipped Pietenpol. This helps to limit the bending stress on the axle. The axle has withstood some teeth jarring landings just fine. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels, ahem, axles!! hmmmm, .188 wall thickness? I'm not looking at them right now, but what do the plans call for?? I don't know, but I think I screwed up and used thinner wall tubing. Already painted and installed, but if I need to replace or put a doubler tube inside at least past the bungees . . . Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Axels Steve, My axle is 1-1/2" diameter, .188" wall 4130, heat treated to 160,000 psi tensile strength. The loading of the axle is a bit unusual - if you look at a shear and moment diagram for such a structure, the axle is under a constant bending moment from bungee to bungee, which means the stress is constant all along the axle. Landing loads can put some pretty high stresses on it (I broke my first axle during a forced landing, hence the heat treating of the new axle). As for windshield design, the curved design is considerably lighter and infinitely easier to make than the framed type. It all depends on what you want. If you want good performance, build a Piet with standard "Cub-type" gear, curved windshields, etc. If you want the "classic" look, go with the sraight axle, wire wheels (with or without covers) and framed windshields, but understand that all those things add weight and hamper performance, particularly on hot days. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Walton Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:42 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:40 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels, ahem, axles!! I should add that the 1 1/2 X .120 (11 ga.) is one gauge thicker than the plans call for. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: gcardinal To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 10:01 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels, ahem, axles!! The axle on NX18235 is 1 1/2" X .120 wall thickness and is not heat treated. No brakes are installed so the length of axle extending beyond the bungee's is shorter than a brake equipped Pietenpol. This helps to limit the bending stress on the axle. The axle has withstood some teeth jarring landings just fine. Greg Cardinal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gene Rambo To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 4:18 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels, ahem, axles!! hmmmm, .188 wall thickness? I'm not looking at them right now, but what do the plans call for?? I don't know, but I think I screwed up and used thinner wall tubing. Already painted and installed, but if I need to replace or put a doubler tube inside at least past the bungees . . . Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Phillips To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:58 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Axels Steve, My axle is 1-1/2" diameter, .188" wall 4130, heat treated to 160,000 psi tensile strength. The loading of the axle is a bit unusual - if you look at a shear and moment diagram for such a structure, the axle is under a constant bending moment from bungee to bungee, which means the stress is constant all along the axle. Landing loads can put some pretty high stresses on it (I broke my first axle during a forced landing, hence the heat treating of the new axle). As for windshield design, the curved design is considerably lighter and infinitely easier to make than the framed type. It all depends on what you want. If you want good performance, build a Piet with standard "Cub-type" gear, curved windshields, etc. If you want the "classic" look, go with the sraight axle, wire wheels (with or without covers) and framed windshields, but understand that all those things add weight and hamper performance, particularly on hot days. Good luck! Jack Phillips NX899JP ------------------------------------------------------------------------- - From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephen Walton Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 12:42 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution title=http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:44 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Folks in Ohio Guys, The WACO fly-in was FUUUUUNNN today.- Dad drove the 1932 model A 1 1/2 ton truck up today, and parked inside the- aircraft parking.- A fel low walked up after a while and asked Dad if he could pull up tight to a mi nt looking Waco (UPF-7 i believe) so they could take some time period photo s of the 2 togeather.- Well it turns out that it was Bill Knight's WACO, who also owns the "Last Original" Pietenpol up at Brodhead.- After talkin g about Piets, airplanes etc, he made the comment "What a nice day, wish I could find someone who wants to go flying" (wink wink), he offered me, Dad, and my wife a ride in his WACO.- It was a blast!- And how in the heck someone ever flew, (landed rather-)one of those from the front cockpit is amazing, the top of the pannel is about the top of my forehead, and the fr ont pit is about 3 feet wide.- He let me fly a little after we got to alt , and it flys nice, light ailerons, and heavy rudder.- It is nice to see the commrodery (sp?) of the airplane brotherhood, especcialy Pietenpol guys. - I can't think of a nicer group of folks anywhere.- It goes to show, n ot all those with money are buttheads, some don't forget where they came fr om, and where we are all headed.- I will gladdly develop the black and wh ite digital photos I took of dad's model A with Bill's Waco and give them t o him at brodhead next month.- And I don't want to forget to mention, it was great to see Tom Brown of Colby Wisconsin (Corvair Piet "Brown Aero"), and Skipp Gadd (GN1) from Hales Landing WV.- - Looking forward to seeing Y'all next month for the 80th - Shad - PS: don't let your wife fly in a waco, the ass comfort is hard to compete w ith in a pietenpol!=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:28 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axels If "ramp appeal" is important to you then the Jenny style landing gear and 3-piece framed windscreen are good choices. At the Father's Day fly-in at our home field of Stanton (SYN) the Pietenpol was parked with a bunch of shiny fiberglass light-sport aircraft and a bunch of Cubs. Which airplane do you think had the crowd around it? The Pietenpol....... Replace the solid axle with tubing. It is still heavy but better than a solid axle. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Stephen Walton To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:42 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Axels I bought a wonderful 70% project which includes the original "Jenny" type landing gear. Rather than rip out the work in place I'm going to go ahead and stick with that gear. Question. The solid steel axel appears to weigh about a ton and a half. My thought is to substitute a steel tube or failing that, replace the center half of the solid steel axel with an aluminum tube, sleeved over the axel end pieces. What say the assembled, and far more experienced, masses? Also, beyond asthetics, what are the considerations on windshield design? I'm leaning towards the simpler single piece, bent plastice motorcycle type althoough the classic framed type has more "Classic" appeal. Is the simpler lighter? What say you? Thanks in advance Steve Walton Classic wood, short fuselage basic stucture complete, just need to cover 80% to go : ) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:23 PM PST US From: "gcardinal" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Continental Motor mount plans-- downthrust specifically The downthrust on NX18235 is per the plans. It displays a slight tendency to go "nose down" when I let go of the stick. It is the same at all throttle settings so that indicates it is an aerodynamic issue and not related to motor mount downthrust. Any builder weighing more than 180# might want to consider extending the motor mount 1 or 2 inches. Greg ----- Original Message ----- From: Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, June 25, 2009 12:04 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Continental Motor mount plans-- downthrust specifically For any of you (like Greg Cardinal) FLYING behind Continental motor mounts that you built from Pietenpol plans, did you build in the downthrust as per plans---if so, any comments ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.