Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Re: tail weight (Wizzard187@aol.com)
2. 04:11 AM - Re: tail weight (gcardinal)
3. 04:54 AM - Re: tail weight (Jack Phillips)
4. 06:50 AM - Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward than plans (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
5. 07:04 AM - Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward... (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
6. 07:37 AM - Electtric plane (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
7. 08:08 AM - Piet windshield (Woodflier@aol.com)
8. 08:41 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Jeff Boatright)
9. 08:42 AM - Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward... (Bill Church)
10. 08:55 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB)
11. 09:09 AM - Re: Piet windshield (Jack Phillips)
12. 09:09 AM - Re: Piet windshield (Steve Eldredge)
13. 09:22 AM - Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward... (Rick Holland)
14. 09:22 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Michael Silvius)
15. 09:22 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Jeff Boatright)
16. 09:33 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Rick Holland)
17. 09:34 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Rick Holland)
18. 09:37 AM - Somewhat off topic (but funny) (Rick Holland)
19. 09:50 AM - Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward (Oscar Zuniga)
20. 09:50 AM - Re: Electtric plane (jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com)
21. 09:55 AM - Re: Somewhat off topic (but funny) (K5YAC)
22. 10:09 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Ameet Savant)
23. 10:26 AM - Re: Electtric plane ()
24. 10:39 AM - Re: Rib Spruce strips (chase143)
25. 10:49 AM - Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward than plans (Bill Church)
26. 10:50 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Michael Silvius)
27. 11:04 AM - Re: Electtric plane (Michael Silvius)
28. 11:13 AM - Passenger Door (TOM STINEMETZE)
29. 11:41 AM - Re: Passenger Door (Bill Church)
30. 03:04 PM - Christmas in late June (Mark Roberts)
31. 05:18 PM - Re: Christmas in late June (Gary Boothe)
32. 05:37 PM - Re: Christmas in late June (Mark Roberts)
33. 05:40 PM - Case bushings (Stu Brown)
34. 06:01 PM - aluminum paint prep (Douwe Blumberg)
35. 06:40 PM - Re: Christmas in late June (Ameet Savant)
36. 06:56 PM - Re: Christmas in late June (Gary Boothe)
37. 07:16 PM - Re: Christmas in late June (Mark Roberts)
38. 07:31 PM - Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward than plans (John Fay)
39. 07:51 PM - Re: Case bushings (Kip and Beth Gardner)
40. 07:56 PM - Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward than plans (Mark Roberts)
41. 08:47 PM - Re: Christmas in late June (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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Pieters, Can anyone that is flying tell me how much wt they have on the
tail when in three point and when horizontal? Also can they lift the tail
when making a take off run and do they have any incidence in the
horizontal. Thanks Ken Conrad in hot corn country
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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On NX18235 the weight on the tailskid in the three point attitude is
about approx. 26 pounds.
When level the weight on the skid is 6 pounds.
The tail can be lifted quite easily as soon as power is advanced.
Horizontal stabilizer incidence is level.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail weight
Pieters, Can anyone that is flying tell me how much wt they have on
the tail when in three point and when horizontal? Also can they lift
the tail when making a take off run and do they have any incidence
in the horizontal. Thanks Ken Conrad in hot corn country
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On "Icarus Plummet" the weight on the tailwheel (empty) is about 30 lbs. At
the level flight position, the weight is probably about 8 lbs (haven't
weighed it in that position, but it is easy to pick up with one hand). I
have two AN960 washers under the forward attach bolts, providing a couple
degrees of "up" incidence.
I found it difficult to get the tail up on takeoff until I got up to 40 mph,
so I added a strip of duct tape to seal the gap between the stabilizer and
elevators. Now I can raise the tail after I've travelled about 100 feet.
The gap seal also affected trim in level flight, requiring more nose up trim
than it used to. I could probably remove those washers and take the
incidence out and it would be just about right.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of gcardinal
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 7:00 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail weight
On NX18235 the weight on the tailskid in the three point attitude is about
approx. 26 pounds.
When level the weight on the skid is 6 pounds.
The tail can be lifted quite easily as soon as power is advanced.
Horizontal stabilizer incidence is level.
Greg Cardinal
----- Original Message -----
From: Wizzard187@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 4:13 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: tail weight
Pieters, Can anyone that is flying tell me how much wt they have on the
tail when in three point and when horizontal? Also can they lift the tail
when making a take off run and do they have any incidence in the
horizontal. Thanks Ken Conrad in hot corn country
_____
A Good Credit Score is 700
or98699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%
26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in just 2 easy steps!
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matronic
s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 4
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Subject: | Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward |
than plans
Oscar-- I find it really interesting that you discovered your 41CC engine mount
is 2 3/4" longer than plans. My guess is that your wing is positioned maybe
1-2" "slant-back" from your cabanes being vertical no ?
With my motor mount I intentionally made it 1" longer than plans because I'm 200lbs
and didn't want to have to slant the wing way, way back to get the CG numbers to
work
out. As it turned out my wing is 4" aft of the cabane struts in the perfect vertical
orientation. Steve E. from Utah (best I can recall) had his wing back SIX inches
to make his CG turn out right. Nothing wrong with that but longer motor mounts
do
for the Cont. 65 does keep builders from having to position the wing back very
far.
(that's why GN-1's noses look so long--because they are. The reason they are so
long
is that the wing on a GN-1 is NOT repositionable fore and aft with the way they
designed
the GN-1 cabane fittings. If your CG comes out wrong on a GN-1 you just can't
move the
wing fore or aft to fix it-- you have to build a new motor mount or add lead somewhere
!!!!
Mike C.
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further |
forward...
It would be nice to see some type of relationship of motor mount or engine
relationship to the firewall based upon engine weight and pilot weight as
in a table such that the guessing and experimentation could be minimized
based upon the table of relationship dimensions. Then all that would be left
would be a series of small adjustments of the wing to achieve the best
combination.
Just a thought.
John
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
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Perhaps this is an alternative to the model A engine?
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_YuneecE430_ElectricAirplane_FirstFlight_200617-1.html
Steve D
35
Message 7
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Steve, I considered making the framed windshields, like Jack Phillips did,
but figured it was beyond my abilities as a metal worker to make the
frames. They look terrific, though. I took some 1/4" plexiglas bought at Lowes,
cut the blank out with a Dreml tool, made a simple single curve aluminum
form with sheet aluminum and some wire to hold it in a curve, and put the form
with a plexiglas blank in the oven in the kitchen at 250 degrees for 10
minutes. The plexiglas formed over the curve and it worked out just great. I
left the plastic covering on the plexiglas which was tough to get off but
protected it from scratching. I just used simple aluminum brackets to attach
the windshields to the turtle decks. Here's a few pics.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
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Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
All of the electric-engined aircraft that I'm aware of have been very
light and very sleek. I've often wondered if those are absolutely
necessary. Could an Piet fly with an electric engine? No doubt it
would require more battery storage, but the Yuneec E430 apparently
only has 158 lbs of batteries on board. Our Piet can hold 26 gal of
fuel, so that's 156 lbs right there. I suspect that the electric
motor weighs much less than a fully-equipped C-85, so maybe there's
another 100 lbs. If you really wanted to, I guess you could make the
front cockpit a battery space, so that there's another 170 lbs. Would
a 4-500lb battery pack fly a Piet?
--
---
Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
Emory University School of Medicine
Editor-in-Chief
Molecular Vision
Message 9
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Subject: | Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further |
forward...
You're right, John, it would be nice.
But I don't think it's practical, for two reasons:
1. The number of combinations of different engine weights and
configurations and pilot weights is almost limitless. And,
2. The actual weight distribution of the aircraft itself is far too
variable (due to most builders "personalizing" their project and other
unknown variables like tailwheel assembly weight, paint finish, etc.)
I think the only method that will work is to do a proper weight and
balance calculation based on each individual aircraft.
Bill C.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
Why couldn't you push some of those batteries ahead of the firewall? thus helping
with the aft CG? And possibly saving the front cockpit for pax. There is an
electric engine guru at our airport. I will ask him what he thinks. I wonder
what RPM it runs at?
WWBT (What Would Bernard Think?)
Blue skies,
Steve D
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electtric plane
>
> All of the electric-engined aircraft that I'm aware of have been very
> light and very sleek. I've often wondered if those are absolutely
> necessary. Could an Piet fly with an electric engine? No doubt it
> would require more battery storage, but the Yuneec E430 apparently
> only has 158 lbs of batteries on board. Our Piet can hold 26 gal of
> fuel, so that's 156 lbs right there. I suspect that the electric
> motor weighs much less than a fully-equipped C-85, so maybe there's
> another 100 lbs. If you really wanted to, I guess you could make the
> front cockpit a battery space, so that there's another 170 lbs. Would
> a 4-500lb battery pack fly a Piet?
> --
> ---
>
> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> Emory University School of Medicine
> Editor-in-Chief
> Molecular Vision
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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So Matt, are you about ready to fly that thing? Any chance you'll have it
at Brodhead?
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Woodflier@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet windshield
Steve, I considered making the framed windshields, like Jack Phillips did,
but figured it was beyond my abilities as a metal worker to make the frames.
They look terrific, though. I took some 1/4" plexiglas bought at Lowes, cut
the blank out with a Dreml tool, made a simple single curve aluminum form
with sheet aluminum and some wire to hold it in a curve, and put the form
with a plexiglas blank in the oven in the kitchen at 250 degrees for 10
minutes. The plexiglas formed over the curve and it worked out just great. I
left the plastic covering on the plexiglas which was tough to get off but
protected it from scratching. I just used simple aluminum brackets to attach
the windshields to the turtle decks. Here's a few pics.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
_____
A
Good126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/p
m/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See yours in
just 2 easy steps!
Message 12
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Looks great! Best wishes on your project. I did the same kind of windshie
ld on my piet, with three anchor points using Lexan. No oven bending, just
muscled it into place. It would eventually crack, but by then it had enou
gh scratches it was time to replace it anyway.
Steve E.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Woodflier@aol.com
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piet windshield
Steve, I considered making the framed windshields, like Jack Phillips did,
but figured it was beyond my abilities as a metal worker to make the frames
. They look terrific, though. I took some 1/4" plexiglas bought at Lowes, c
ut the blank out with a Dreml tool, made a simple single curve aluminum for
m with sheet aluminum and some wire to hold it in a curve, and put the form
with a plexiglas blank in the oven in the kitchen at 250 degrees for 10 mi
nutes. The plexiglas formed over the curve and it worked out just great. I
left the plastic covering on the plexiglas which was tough to get off but p
rotected it from scratching. I just used simple aluminum brackets to attach
the windshields to the turtle decks. Here's a few pics.
Matt Paxton
NX629ML
________________________________
A Good126575x1221823281x1201398699/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.
com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>S
ee yours in just 2 easy steps!
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further |
forward...
I think the only method that will work is to do a proper weight and balance
> calculation based on each individual aircraft.
>
> Agreed, I did an "engineless" W&B on my uncovered assembled airframe with
scrap metal added where the fuel tank goes to simulate full fuel, vertical
cabanes (why have to move the wing back if you can put the engine forward
enough to not require it). I then back calculated where the engine (ready to
run with oil, prop, etc) needed to go and built my mount accordingly (240
lbs for a Corvair in my case).
Also, since this W&B did not include cover and paint, according to Jack
Phillips that will move your CG back something under an inch also.
Rick
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
amazing what you can do with a couple of aluminum ladders and mother's
washing machine motor
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-tx6rPz3HY
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
> Perhaps this is an alternative to the model A engine?
>
>
http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/exclusivevids/ExclusiveVideo_YuneecE430_ElectricAirplane_FirstFlight_200617-1.html
>
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
I agree about pushing the weight forward - the 100 lb guess at the
engine vs motor weight difference would put that 100 lbs ahead of the
firewall, but obviously more battery weight can be put there for W&B
purposes.
Another thing I wonder about is why these motors are being run at
rpms so high that a reduction drive is needed. I always thought that
electric motor develop maximal torque as rpm goes to zero.
>NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
>Why couldn't you push some of those batteries ahead of the firewall?
>thus helping with the aft CG? And possibly saving the front cockpit
>for pax. There is an electric engine guru at our airport. I will ask
>him what he thinks. I wonder what RPM it runs at?
>
>WWBT (What Would Bernard Think?)
>
>Blue skies,
>Steve D
Message 16
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
We need to have Piet builders toss in a couple bucks each at Broadhead to
come up with a "Orteig *Prize" (like Lindbergh won) for the first electric
Piet flown into Broadhead (from some required minimum distance). May be able
to get EAA to toss in some dough too, they would love to showcase something
like that at Oshkosh.
Rick
*
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:54 AM, Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB <
steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil> wrote:
> steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> Why couldn't you push some of those batteries ahead of the firewall? thus
> helping with the aft CG? And possibly saving the front cockpit for pax.
> There is an electric engine guru at our airport. I will ask him what he
> thinks. I wonder what RPM it runs at?
>
> WWBT (What Would Bernard Think?)
>
> Blue skies,
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
> Date: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:49
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electtric plane
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
> >
> > All of the electric-engined aircraft that I'm aware of have been very
> > light and very sleek. I've often wondered if those are absolutely
> > necessary. Could an Piet fly with an electric engine? No doubt it
> > would require more battery storage, but the Yuneec E430 apparently
> > only has 158 lbs of batteries on board. Our Piet can hold 26 gal of
> > fuel, so that's 156 lbs right there. I suspect that the electric
> > motor weighs much less than a fully-equipped C-85, so maybe there's
> > another 100 lbs. If you really wanted to, I guess you could make the
> > front cockpit a battery space, so that there's another 170 lbs. Would
> > a 4-500lb battery pack fly a Piet?
> > --
> > ---
> >
> > Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
> > Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
> > Emory University School of Medicine
> > Editor-in-Chief
> > Molecular Vision
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 17
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
> Another thing I wonder about is why these motors are being run at rpms so
> high that a reduction drive is needed. I always thought that electric motor
> develop maximal torque as rpm goes to zero.
>
Good point, I thought that the torque for an electric motor was just a
vertical line starting from zero rpm.
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 18
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Subject: | Somewhat off topic (but funny) |
> His request approved, the Fox News photographer quickly used a
> cell phone to call the local airport to charter a flight.
> He was told a twin engine plane would be waiting for him at the
> airport.
>
> Arriving at the airfield, he spotted a plane warming up outside
> a hanger. He jumped in with his bag, slammed the door shut, and
> shouted, 'Let's go.' The pilot taxied out, swung the plane into the
> wind and took
> off. Once in the air, the photographer instructed the pilot,
> 'Fly over the valley and make low passes so I can take pictures
> of the fires on the hillsides.'
> 'Why?' asked the pilot.
> 'Because I'm a photographer for Fox Cable News,' he responded.
> 'And I need to get some close up shots'
>
> The pilot was strangely silent for a moment.
> Finally he stammered, 'So, what you're telling me is .... you're
> NOT my flight instructor?'
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 19
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Subject: | Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further forward |
Mikee-
In fact, the cabanes on 41CC are slanted aft 4". So the
engine mount was lengthened a bit to make up some of the
moment lost by using the lighter Continental engine instead
of the Ford A engine, but moving the wing aft made up for
the rest. Thus, the nose on 41CC is pleasantly configured
with no Jimmy Durante effect and the cabane slant isn't
really noticeable except to Piet purists.
The airplane balances very nicely in all configurations
and trim forces are light with the bungee setup that I have
on it. Here's an excerpt from the archives, posted by Doc
Mosher on the subject, perhaps adding some explanation of
why all this engine mount and cabane tilting stuff is needed:
>Historically, most Piets come out of the jig being tail heavy
>because they don't have that heavy Ford A engine on the front
>end of the teeter-totter. If you increase the arm of the
>engine weight of a 220# Corvair engine, for example, (move it
>4 or 5 inches forward of where the Ford used to be) your Piet
>will probably not be chronically tailheavy. Then, if you want,
>you can tweak it by moving the wing fore or aft- usually aft -
>to really set the loaded CG between your goal numbers of 22/34%
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
it looks like a modern day revamp of the flying flea.
Message 21
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Subject: | Re: Somewhat off topic (but funny) |
Maybe I am reading too much into this hee hee, ha ha.... but why a FOX news guy?
Hmmm.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250625#250625
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
Low RPM equals low HP (power) and low efficiency. An electric motor may make its
max power at 50% max RPM, while being most efficient at 75%-90% max RPM. Given
where battery technology is today, I would opt for less power and more efficiency.
:)
Also, given max RPM can be 30,000+ the 50% mark also needs a reduction gear anyway.
Ameet
Omaha, NE
--- On Mon, 6/29/09, Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> wrote:
> Another thing I wonder about is why these motors are being
> run at rpms so high that a reduction drive is needed. I
> always thought that electric motor develop maximal torque as
> rpm goes to zero.
Message 23
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
The following thoughts are based on really loose, ballpark-only,
calculations. I don't stake my reputation on any of it.
In cruising flight, that clean little Chinese airplane with long wings
probably gets by on around 10 Hp. An airplane like a Pietenpol requires
something like 25-50 Hp, or anywhere from 20,000 to 40,000 watts. The most
efficient currently-available storage batteries can store a little less than
60 Watt-hours per pound, which means that, at an impossible 100% efficiency,
it could take more than 600 lbs of batteries to power a Pietenpol for an
hour of cruising. This does not take into account the higher power demands
of takeoff and climb or any regeneration during descent.
If we can cover the top of our 145 sq ft wing with solar cells, we could,
theoretically, get another 3000-4000 watts on average, which would extend
the range a little.
However, we need a little more battery development before we are ready for
the electric Piet.
A battery-powered motor-glider is much more likely right now.
Mike Hardaway
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dortch, Steven D MAJ NG NG NGB" <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electtric plane
> <steven.d.dortch@us.army.mil>
>
> Why couldn't you push some of those batteries ahead of the firewall? thus
> helping with the aft CG? And possibly saving the front cockpit for pax.
> There is an electric engine guru at our airport. I will ask him what he
> thinks. I wonder what RPM it runs at?
>
> WWBT (What Would Bernard Think?)
>
> Blue skies,
> Steve D
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
> Date: Monday, June 29, 2009 10:49
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Electtric plane
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
>
>>
>> All of the electric-engined aircraft that I'm aware of have been very
>> light and very sleek. I've often wondered if those are absolutely
>> necessary. Could an Piet fly with an electric engine? No doubt it
>> would require more battery storage, but the Yuneec E430 apparently
>> only has 158 lbs of batteries on board. Our Piet can hold 26 gal of
>> fuel, so that's 156 lbs right there. I suspect that the electric
>> motor weighs much less than a fully-equipped C-85, so maybe there's
>> another 100 lbs. If you really wanted to, I guess you could make the
>> front cockpit a battery space, so that there's another 170 lbs. Would
>> a 4-500lb battery pack fly a Piet?
>> --
>> ---
>>
>> Jeffrey H. Boatright, Ph.D.
>> Associate Professor of Ophthalmology
>> Emory University School of Medicine
>> Editor-in-Chief
>> Molecular Vision
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Rib Spruce strips |
Jim,
Well done. That will certainly help some lucky builder. Thanks for the generosity!
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250633#250633
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Subject: | Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further |
forward than plans
Like Mike says, the Pietenpol design has a handy feature built-in that
allows for CofG adjustments (leaning the cabane struts fore or aft). It
is surprising (to me, at least) that tilted cabanes do not appear as
obvious as one would expect. I would have thought that a 4" tilt to the
rear would look funny, but you really have to look hard to see it.
http://www.westcoastpiet.com/images/Mike%20Cuy%20A-65%20Piet/mc-pietbest
.jpg
The alternative to tilting the cabanes is to extend the motor mount, and
the following shows an Air Camper powered by a Continental A-65 that has
vertical cabanes. In order to achieve this, the motor mount had to be
extended (if my memory serves me correctly) something in the
neighborhood of 9". The nose is definitely a bit longer than usual, but
is not as noticable as one would expect.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/photoDisplay.cfm?PhotoName=Brussels%20
2
008_135.JPG&PhotoID=3949
I suspect a combination of the two is the best approach - extend the
motor mount (or the fuselage - might as well make the space usable) by
an inch or two, AND tilt the cabanes as needed to stay within the CofG
range.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 9:50 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4"
further forward than plans
--> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Oscar-- I find it really interesting that you discovered your 41CC
engine mount
is 2 3/4" longer than plans. My guess is that your wing is positioned
maybe
1-2" "slant-back" from your cabanes being vertical no ?
With my motor mount I intentionally made it 1" longer than plans because
I'm 200lbs and didn't want to have to slant the wing way, way back to
get the CG numbers to work
out. As it turned out my wing is 4" aft of the cabane struts in the
perfect vertical
orientation. Steve E. from Utah (best I can recall) had his wing back
SIX inches
to make his CG turn out right. Nothing wrong with that but longer
motor mounts do
for the Cont. 65 does keep builders from having to position the wing
back very far.
(that's why GN-1's noses look so long--because they are. The reason
they are so long is that the wing on a GN-1 is NOT repositionable fore
and aft with the way they designed
the GN-1 cabane fittings. If your CG comes out wrong on a GN-1 you
just can't move the
wing fore or aft to fix it-- you have to build a new motor mount or add
lead somewhere !!!!
Mike C.
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
Yes, its a Ladder Pou or in French a Pouchel. A flying flea made out of
aluminum ladders.
more on it here:
http://www.pouchel.com/english/index_eng.php?p=accueil_eng.htm
Garry Gower's in Mexico
http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x309/pouchelmex/Pouchel/
http://s181.photobucket.com/albums/x309/pouchelmex/La%20Bamba%20en%20el%2
0Aerodromo%20de%20Kordish/
Michael
----- Original Message -----
From: jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com
it looks like a modern day revamp of the flying flea.
Message 27
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Subject: | Re: Electtric plane |
some photos of the electric flea
http://www.pouchel.com/Essai%20Pouchelec/album/index.html
----- Original Message -----
From: jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com
it looks like a modern day revamp of the flying flea.
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Does anyone know if Yesterday's Wings is still around? After finding out
that a passenger door is a possibility, my wife now insists that it is not
"optional" anymore. I have a phone number gleaned from the Matronics
search function but it is no longer in service. Any help would be
appreciated.
Tom Stinemetze
McPherson, KS
Message 29
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The website still seems to be in service:
http://www.geocities.com/keriannprice/index.html
Message 30
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Subject: | Christmas in late June |
Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up tube was just
delivered to the house... 'was there just one tube you've been this
excited about?!'
I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at least I
didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the readers digest
arrives!"
That would involve long term couch sleeping...
:-)
Mark
Mark Roberts
Message 31
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Subject: | Christmas in late June |
You're a wise man, Mark. Congratulations!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Roberts
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Christmas in late June
Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up tube was just
delivered to the house... 'was there just one tube you've been this
excited about?!'
I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at least I
didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the readers digest
arrives!"
That would involve long term couch sleeping...
:-)
Mark
Mark Roberts
Message 32
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Subject: | Re: Christmas in late June |
Well, there was another envelope in the mail box as well, so I got'em all...
So now off to spend some time staring at them... :o)
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:16 PM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> You're a wise man, Mark. Congratulations!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (13 ribs down.)
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Roberts
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 1:51 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Christmas in late June
>
>
> Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up tube was just
> delivered to the house... 'was there just one tube you've been this
> excited about?!'
>
> I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at least I
> didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the readers digest
> arrives!"
>
> That would involve long term couch sleeping...
>
> :-)
>
> Mark
>
>
> Mark Roberts
>
>
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I believe you will find polyethylene unsuitable for bushing material PE will cold
flow and is not much good above 160F. Polyurethane would be a more suitable
choice.
Stu Brown
Time: 11:45:50 AM PST US
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair mounts
From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano@att.net>
Well I was at the hardware store and found some 1/2" O.D. Polyethylene tubing that
seems tough. I think I may try that on my bolts where they pass through the
case holes.I will make a mental note to keep watch on them and see if I can
see any wear.for sure it would be a good item to inspect at annuals.Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250480#250480
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Subject: | aluminum paint prep |
Hey,
I'm getting ready to paint my cowling. I know I need to etch aluminum prior
to priming but can I leave it shiney or do I need to lightly sand it to
scuff it up and give it some tooth?
Douwe
Message 35
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Subject: | Re: Christmas in late June |
Christmas indeed! I got my GN-1 plans in the mail today. Unfortunately, I have
to work tonight :(
Ameet Savant
Omaha, NE
--- On Mon, 6/29/09, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up
> tube was just delivered to the house... 'was there just one
> tube you've been this excited about?!'
>
> I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at
> least I didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the
> readers digest arrives!"
>
> That would involve long term couch sleeping...
>
> :-)
>
> Mark
>
Message 36
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Subject: | Christmas in late June |
OK...both got their plans on the same day. Who's going to finish first? I
think we need to start a pool....
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ameet Savant
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Christmas in late June
Christmas indeed! I got my GN-1 plans in the mail today. Unfortunately, I
have to work tonight :(
Ameet Savant
Omaha, NE
--- On Mon, 6/29/09, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up
> tube was just delivered to the house... 'was there just one
> tube you've been this excited about?!'
>
> I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at
> least I didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the
> readers digest arrives!"
>
> That would involve long term couch sleeping...
>
> :-)
>
> Mark
>
Message 37
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Subject: | Re: Christmas in late June |
Hey Gary!
Thanks for the Jenny gear plans. I will look at those as I do my Planning...
Now, as to the one that finishes first... After looking at these plans, I am
going to be glad to FINISH! It's not that complicated, it is just
interpreting them and mentally visualizing how it is all going to go
together....
AND, after a little talk with Little Mrs. Pretty Lady, I might be needing a
side job before I can start buying wood :o(
Well, more time to build one in CAD and work out my 'improvements'... (Are
there ever improvements? Just modifications :o)
Mark
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> OK...both got their plans on the same day. Who's going to finish first? I
> think we need to start a pool....
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (13 ribs down.)
> Do not archive
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ameet
> Savant
> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:31 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Christmas in late June
>
>
>
> Christmas indeed! I got my GN-1 plans in the mail today. Unfortunately, I
> have to work tonight :(
>
> Ameet Savant
> Omaha, NE
>
> --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
> > Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up
> > tube was just delivered to the house... 'was there just one
> > tube you've been this excited about?!'
> >
> > I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at
> > least I didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the
> > readers digest arrives!"
> >
> > That would involve long term couch sleeping...
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > Mark
> >
>
>
Message 38
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Subject: | Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further |
forward than plans
> What we have done on our piets, (my partner Dave and I) is move the
> corvairs we are planning to use 4 inches forward. But we are doing it by
> moving the firewall four inches ahead of where the plans have it, thus
> extending the front cockpit legroom by four inches, and also expanding the
> luggage compartment we are building over the passenger's legs.
But we have only built the sides of the fuselages, and have not assembled
them, so we have no idea if this will be a success or might cause some
unforeseen problems.
John Fay
in Peoria
Message 39
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Subject: | Re: Case bushings |
Teflon would be a good choice too, but you'd probably have to make
them yourself from round stock. We used to use it to make parts &
equipment for the oceanographic work I did. Fairly rugged,
completely chemical resistant, and easy to work. It also won't
contaminate sea water samples, but that would only matter to Corky, I
suppose :) Would be kind of pricey, I imagine.
Kip Gardner
On Jun 29, 2009, at 8:39 PM, Stu Brown wrote:
> <stu_brown@verizon.net>
>
> I believe you will find polyethylene unsuitable for bushing
> material PE will cold flow and is not much good above 160F.
> Polyurethane would be a more suitable choice.
>
> Stu Brown
>
>
> Time: 11:45:50 AM PST US
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: corvair mounts
> From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano@att.net>
>
>
> Well I was at the hardware store and found some 1/2" O.D.
> Polyethylene tubing that
> seems tough. I think I may try that on my bolts where they pass
> through the
> case holes.I will make a mental note to keep watch on them and see
> if I can
> see any wear.for sure it would be a good item to inspect at
> annuals.Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250480#250480
>
>
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Subject: | Re: Oscar's engine mount lengthening-- 2 3/4" further |
forward than plans
Hey Bill:
The swept back wings on Mike's plane has almost a hint of "I'm faster than
you think I am" look about them... :o)
Mark
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 7:26 PM, John Fay <jfay1950@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What we have done on our piets, (my partner Dave and I) is move the
>> corvairs we are planning to use 4 inches forward. But we are doing it by
>> moving the firewall four inches ahead of where the plans have it, thus
>> extending the front cockpit legroom by four inches, and also expanding the
>> luggage compartment we are building over the passenger's legs.
>
> But we have only built the sides of the fuselages, and have not assembled
> them, so we have no idea if this will be a success or might cause some
> unforeseen problems.
>
> John Fay
> in Peoria
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 41
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Subject: | Re: Christmas in late June |
Mark,
Congrats on getting your plans and taking your first steps. As you can read
in the archives, and hear from many on the list, I think the best thing to
do is to build your Pietenpol as you would eat an elephant: one bite at a
time. No need to overwhelm yourself with the enormity of the fact that you
are going to be building your own flying machine from scratch. Break it down
into smaller tasks to be accomplished. If you can keep accomplishing those
smaller tasks, pretty soon you will have made significant progress.
As far as getting a side job in order to start buying wood....well, I don't
know what to tell you there, other than the fact that the cost of the wood
is not even one of the larger expenses you will put forth in the whole
process of building a Pietenpol. While a Piet is a nice value, and a
relatively economical way to build an airplane, it's still an airplane, and
there are cheaper hobbies you can have. That said, you could take your first
step down the path to rib-building for about $240-$260 (depending on
shipping). All the capstrip material, ply, and glue to build your ribs from
Aircraft Spruce right now comes to $212, and then add shipping on top of
that. A relatively modest investment, and then you can be making solid
progress.
While there is nothing wrong with planning, dreaming, "CADing", etc, the
only thing that is ever going to get you into the air is actual hands-on
building. And you will probably drive yourself and "Mrs Pretty Lady" nuts if
you spend all your hours thinking and not doing. If you ever happen to get
to meet Jess at Brodhead, ask her the simple question: "Long fuselage, short
fuselage?", and watch her reaction. :P
It is also far more satisfying to spend an hour actually working on the
airplane and having something to show for it, than spending all day just
thinking about it and not having anything but frustration to show for it.
Good luck with your Piet. The list is a great resource, including the
archives. Many questions have been asked and answered here, and you can find
them in the archives (or just throw them out there if you can't find them).
Have a good night,
Ryan
On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 9:14 PM, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hey Gary!
> Thanks for the Jenny gear plans. I will look at those as I do my
> Planning...
>
> Now, as to the one that finishes first... After looking at these plans, I
> am going to be glad to FINISH! It's not that complicated, it is just
> interpreting them and mentally visualizing how it is all going to go
> together....
>
> AND, after a little talk with Little Mrs. Pretty Lady, I might be needing a
> side job before I can start buying wood :o(
>
> Well, more time to build one in CAD and work out my 'improvements'... (Are
> there ever improvements? Just modifications :o)
>
> Mark
>
> On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> OK...both got their plans on the same day. Who's going to finish first? I
>> think we need to start a pool....
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>> Cool, Ca.
>> Pietenpol
>> WW Corvair Conversion
>> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>> (13 ribs down.)
>> Do not archive
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ameet
>> Savant
>> Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 6:31 PM
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Christmas in late June
>>
>> >
>>
>>
>> Christmas indeed! I got my GN-1 plans in the mail today. Unfortunately, I
>> have to work tonight :(
>>
>> Ameet Savant
>> Omaha, NE
>>
>> --- On Mon, 6/29/09, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > Well, Mrs. Pretty Lady just called and said a rolled up
>> > tube was just delivered to the house... 'was there just one
>> > tube you've been this excited about?!'
>> >
>> > I'm not sure till I get home to see what got there. But at
>> > least I didn't say "hey, I don't make fun of you when the
>> > readers digest arrives!"
>> >
>> > That would involve long term couch sleeping...
>> >
>> > :-)
>> >
>> > Mark
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ============
>> igator to browse
>> st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ==========
>> http://forums.matronics.com
>> ==========
>> le, List Admin.
>> ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ==========
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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