Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:12 AM - Long fuselage dimensions (Jim Quinn)
2. 06:06 AM - Looking for someone. (Isablcorky@aol.com)
3. 06:35 AM - Re: Looking for someone. (Ameet Savant)
4. 06:38 AM - Re: Fuse. longerons bending (Michael Perez)
5. 06:42 AM - Re: Looking for someone. (Isablcorky@aol.com)
6. 06:52 AM - Plywoods (Isablcorky@aol.com)
7. 06:55 AM - Re: Looking for someone. (Ryan Mueller)
8. 07:02 AM - Re: Looking for someone. (Peter W Johnson)
9. 07:08 AM - Re: Looking for someone. (Jared Yates)
10. 07:30 AM - Re: Plywoods (899PM)
11. 07:54 AM - Re: Plywoods (Tim Willis)
12. 08:05 AM - Re: aluminum paint prep (shad bell)
13. 08:12 AM - Found My Engine!! (TOPGUN)
14. 09:10 AM - Re: Found My Engine!! (Michael Perez)
15. 09:16 AM - Found My Engine!! (Oscar Zuniga)
16. 09:24 AM - Re: Found My Engine!! (TOPGUN)
17. 09:27 AM - Re: Found My Engine!! (TOPGUN)
18. 10:38 AM - Re: Plywoods (Isablcorky@aol.com)
19. 10:52 AM - Re: Found My Engine!! (TOPGUN)
20. 10:54 AM - Re: Found My Engine!! (TOPGUN)
21. 11:40 AM - Fuselage length (Will42)
22. 12:20 PM - Re: Fuselage length (K5YAC)
23. 12:54 PM - Re: Fuselage length (Ameet Savant)
24. 12:54 PM - Re: Fuselage length (Will42)
25. 01:12 PM - Re: Fuselage length (Rick Holland)
26. 02:43 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (Gene Rambo)
27. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: Found My Engine!! (Jack Phillips)
28. 03:12 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (Jack Phillips)
29. 04:17 PM - Re: Fuselage length (Will42)
30. 05:37 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (Ryan Mueller)
31. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (amsafetyc@aol.com)
32. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (amsafetyc@aol.com)
33. 06:14 PM - Re: Fuse. longerons bending (Rick Holland)
34. 06:33 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (John Hofmann)
35. 07:37 PM - Re: Fuselage length (Pieti Lowell)
36. 07:45 PM - OSH (Dick N.)
37. 08:00 PM - Re: Found My Engine!! (TOPGUN)
38. 08:23 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (Roman Bukolt)
39. 08:43 PM - Re: Re: Fuselage length (amsafetyc@aol.com)
40. 08:50 PM - Brodhead from Minneapolis area? (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
41. 09:24 PM - Re: seeing the instruments (Jim)
42. 09:33 PM - Re: seeing the instruments (Jim)
43. 11:02 PM - Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) (Matt Dralle)
44. 11:11 PM - Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines (Matt Dralle)
45. 11:13 PM - Re: Plywoods (Mike Tunnicliffe)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Long fuselage dimensions |
I'm building the longer fuselage and once again having trouble reading
the top and bottom portion of the plans. Does anybody have a clearer
drawing of the bracing and/or dimensions for joining the two sides of
the fuselage?
Thanks,
Jim
Message 2
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| Subject: | Looking for someone. |
Pieters,
Found a pic of a Piet which is exactly as I want to create. I have no idea
as to who the owner or builder may be. Would the real builder stand up and
shout.
Blue fuse w/ light wing, cream or yellow. Cont Engine with white valve
covers and bleached straight, Aeronca style, stacks, split gear with bunge
e
close to fuse bottom and wire spoked wheels. On the aft side of the fuse
is a
decal with ARC inside a circle. Will someone help me identify this plane
so
I may contact the owner-builder. Thank you
Corky in extremely hot Louisiana
**************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops =93 Deal
s
starting at
ir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0
)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for someone. |
Corky,
You got me drooling with that poetic description. Care to share the photograph?
Ameet
Do not archive
--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Isablcorky@aol.com <Isablcorky@aol.com> wrote:
> Pieters,
>
> Blue fuse w/ light wing, cream or yellow. Cont Engine
> with white valve
> covers and bleached straight, Aeronca style, stacks, split
> gear with bungee
> close to fuse bottom and wire spoked wheels. On the aft
> side of the fuse is a
> decal with ARC inside a circle.
> Corky in extremely hot Louisiana
Message 4
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| Subject: | Fuse. longerons bending |
Thanks all for the replies. I am glad to hear no one has had any real issue
s with the longerons flexing after removal from the jig. I guess the length
and the lower bend is such that there is minimal stress on the upper longe
rons once everything is tied together.
-
I am not quite there yet, but I have the last of my wing plywood on it's wa
y as well as the longerons. I should be wrapping up the last wing and getti
ng started on the fuse. in another month or so.
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for someone. |
Sure, it's a real beauty. Don't have a clue as to how I got the pic
**************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops =93 Deal
s
starting at
ir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0
)
Message 6
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Pieters,
About 1/8 and 1/16 plywood. found a source of OKUME plywood. There are two
grades ( and prices) for the 1/8th. European $51.20 a sheet 4x8, Asian
$26.00. For 1/16th it's $36.80 for a 4x8 sheet. 1/4 in 4x8 sheet $53.60
Have anyone of you used this type wood or know of it's use in our airplane
building?
The broker did mention how light this wood is.
Compared to Wicks prices, seems unreal
Shall we have some Piet gab on this subject?
Corky
**************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops =93 Deal
s
starting at
ir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0
)
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for someone. |
That would be Walt Evans: http://www.westcoastpiet.com/new_page_58.htm. I'm
pretty sure Walt's on this list.....
Ryan
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 8:39 AM, <Isablcorky@aol.com> wrote:
> Sure, it's a real beauty. Don't have a clue as to how I got the pic
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Looking for someone. |
Corky,
I believe that might be Walt Evan's Piet. He's on the list so should chime
in.
Peter
Wonthaggi Australia
http://www.cpc-world.com <http://www.cpc-world.com/>
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 July 2009 11:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Looking for someone.
Sure, it's a real beauty. Don't have a clue as to how I got the pic
_____
Dell
p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0>
Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops - Deals starting at $399
Message 9
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| Subject: | Looking for someone. |
It wasn't by chance Dick Navratil's NX2RN, was it?
http://jaredyates.com/pages/brodhead08/jy~DSC_6882.JPG
The description seems similar except for the logo on the fuselage.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Isablcorky@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 9:03 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Looking for someone.
Pieters,
Found a pic of a Piet which is exactly as I want to create. I have no idea
as to who the owner or builder may be. Would the real builder stand up and
shout.
Blue fuse w/ light wing, cream or yellow. Cont Engine with white valve
covers and bleached straight, Aeronca style, stacks, split gear with bungee
close to fuse bottom and wire spoked wheels. On the aft side of the fuse is
a decal with ARC inside a circle. Will someone help me identify this plane
so I may contact the owner-builder. Thank you
Corky in extremely hot Louisiana
_____
Dell
p:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0>
Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops - Deals starting at $399
Message 10
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Corky,
My fuse sides are 1/8" OKUME. Worked great!
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250941#250941
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1214_121.jpg
Message 11
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Corky,
I recall someone on this board saying that mahogany ply is a little stronger for
gussets than okume, but does not bend as easily. I know a Skybolt builder who
started with 1.5mm mahogany for his wing LE (actually a D-truss) but had to
switch to okume to get the bend he needed.
I would think okume should work for 1/8" gussets and the like, providing more than
enough strength vs. mahogany, but some experts should chime in. Someone who
can tell you all you would want to know is Chris Boulter at Boulter Plywood.
They are marine ply specialists, and handle a lot of related stuff, including
several grades of okume.
Take a look at their website-- www.boulterplywood.com.... I think his prices are higher on most than what you are quoting, but look under "specials" on his website: 1.5mm okume is $29 a sheet. They are outside Boston, so shipping dimensions and costs are both factors. I know they can ship whole sheets UPS when cut into either 2X8 ft. or 4X4 ft.
Is your broker local to Shreveport, or where? Please tell me Dallas or Houston,
better yet Austin.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
Sent: Jul 1, 2009 8:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywoods
Pieters,
About 1/8 and 1/16 plywood. found a source of OKUME plywood. There are two grades
( and prices) for the 1/8th. European $51.20 a sheet 4x8, Asian $26.00. For
1/16th it's $36.80 for a 4x8 sheet. 1/4 in 4x8 sheet $53.60
Have anyone of you used this type wood or know of it's use in our airplane building?
The broker did mention how light this wood is.
Compared to Wicks prices, seems unreal
Shall we have some Piet gab on this subject?
Corky
Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops - Deals starting at $399
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: aluminum paint prep |
Tim, the alumiprep and alodine are two different things,- The alumiprep i
s an acid that etches the aluminum, leaves it sort of frosty in appearance,
and prepares the aluminum for the alodine.- The alodine is a chemical co
nversion coating which prevents corrosion, and leaves the aluminum with a g
old tint (1201 leves the gold tint and the liquid is gold colored).- The
1100, or 1101 I believe is the one that does not tint the aluminum, however
it is harder to tell when the part has been soaked enough.- And one othe
r tip for alodine application to big parts such as cowlings, large sheets e
tc, is to spray the alodine on the part with a squirt bottle, and then cove
r the part in clean (non contaminated) rags and soak the rags with alodine.
- This keeps the part in contact with the alodine, and keeps the alodine
from running off the part.- Let soak untill you get a nice light bronze c
olor and then rinse with water and let air dry.- On a safety note, wear
non permiable gloves when using either, the acid will burn skin, and the a
lodine has Chromium in it, not good for the human body, And bad for ground
water as well.
-
Hope this helps, and always just follow the directions on the bottle,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 13
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| Subject: | Found My Engine!! |
OK, i have been a lurker on here for quite some time, allot of great information!
I have been on an engine search for the last year, finally found one that seems
to be a great fit. I personally wanted to stay with the nostalgic look of
the inline liquid cooled 4 cylinder, vs. the typical boxer aircraft/corvair
engine. Over the past couple of months i have been converting my new engine for
a dyno test to see if my calculations are correct, i attached a dyno sheet showing
the result as well as some you tube clips. The engine is a Mitsubishi 2.6
liter 4G54, widely used in forklifts, i chose this engine because of it low
operating rpm and high torque. The engine weighs in at 244 lbs as shown. The
engine in he test has thousands of hours on it, now it is time to rebuild it and
i should get another 5-10 hp. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmx2ERh7LxA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCr_8nDox8Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zMg6EWKZos
Fuse and emp done
One wing started
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250951#250951
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
Curious, you say that engine is widely used on forklifts. I know nothing about
these engines, so I ask, is it propane fueled? Diesel? I believe diesel engines
produce some good torque. Very interesting choice, I hope you will continue
to post here with updates...love to hear/see how it works out!
Message 15
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| Subject: | Found My Engine!! |
Hey, Topgun- that's a nifty setup. There should be
plenty of those engines out there. A quick search on
Wikipedia (Mitsubishi 4G54) shows an extensive list of
foreign and domestic autos that the engine showed up
in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Astron_engine
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
air cooled and proud of it ;o)
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
The engine was running on propane when i took it out......i made the intake manifold
and adapted an aircraft carb and for the dyno test, i used 100ll av gas.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250961#250961
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
Most of the auto versions had a counter balance shaft which i didn't want cause
of the added weight. Also, in the auto version the heads had some extra porting
for emissions which is not desirable for this application. The forklift engine
is absent of most of these items.
taildrags(at)hotmail.com wrote:
> Hey, Topgun- that's a nifty setup. There should be
> plenty of those engines out there. A quick search on
> Wikipedia (Mitsubishi 4G54) shows an extensive list of
> foreign and domestic autos that the engine showed up
> in.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsubishi_Astron_engine
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> air cooled and proud of it ;o)
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250964#250964
Message 18
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Port Townsend, Washington
**************Dell Laptops: Huge Savings on Popular Laptops =93 Deal
s
starting at
ir=http:%2F%2Faltfarm.mediaplex.com%2Fad%2Fck%2F12309%2D81939%2D1629%2D0
)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
here are some pics
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250977#250977
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/cimg1224_114.jpg
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
i have to try and figure out how to get my pictures smaller.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250978#250978
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Can someone explain to me how making the fuselage longer compensates for a lighter
engine. A lighter engine moves the CG rearward; lengthening the fuselage also
moves the CG rearward. How does this correlate? I can understand moving the
wing back as this would move the CG forward ( I think?) but a longer fuselage
seems a move in the wrong direction.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250985#250985
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
Hmmm... moving the wing back would most certainly move the CG back as well. Perhaps
you mean lengthening the engine mount will compensate for a light engine,
or lengthening the front of the fuse (?), but if you are light up front, a longer
tail probably isn't going to help.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250988#250988
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
Will,
The way I've thought about it is a lighter engine needs to have a longer nose.
Effectively, increasing the distance between the wing (where cg should fall) and
the engine. However, you can't just increase the nose and call it a day because
your tail then may not have enough moment left to balance the wing in straight
and level flight. To compensate for that you typically add some length between
the wing and the tail.
I've don't own the plans (yet) nor have I seen where the additional bays are added,
but I bet there are two bays added- one in front of the wing and the other
after it. This is my understanding from a design perspective, I am not sure
if this is correct, but it makes sense to me.
The ultimate effect is:
1) a lengthening of the fuselage
and
2) moving of the wing behind from where it was, but nothing changes from a builder's
point of view as the bay the wing attached to is unmodified.
Regards,
Ameet Savant
Omaha, NE
--- On Wed, 7/1/09, Will42 <will@cctc.net> wrote:
> Can someone explain to me how making the fuselage longer
> compensates for a lighter engine.
>
> Will
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
"moving the wing back would most certainly move the CG back as well"
Sorry, I wrote exactly opposite from what I was thinking on moving the wing.
My point is/was, the longer fuselage is recommended for the lighter engines ( Continental;
Corvair) and I can't see how this is correct.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250992#250992
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
The long fuselage is more tail heavy (everything else being equal). Works
great with the Corvair engine and its electrical system. And you are
correct, tilting the cabanes back moves the fuselage forward, not the wings
back and therefore the CG forward.
rick
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Will42 <will@cctc.net> wrote:
>
> Can someone explain to me how making the fuselage longer compensates for a
> lighter engine. A lighter engine moves the CG rearward; lengthening the
> fuselage also moves the CG rearward. How does this correlate? I can
> understand moving the wing back as this would move the CG forward ( I
> think?) but a longer fuselage seems a move in the wrong direction.
>
> Will
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250985#250985
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
again, to quote Waldo, "I don't want to be a stickler for accuracy" but
moving the wing around is moving the center of lift around, not the CG.
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: Will42<mailto:will@cctc.net>
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
<will@cctc.net<mailto:will@cctc.net>>
"moving the wing back would most certainly move the CG back as well"
Sorry, I wrote exactly opposite from what I was thinking on moving the
wing.
My point is/was, the longer fuselage is recommended for the lighter
engines ( Continental; Corvair) and I can't see how this is correct.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250992#250992<http://forums
.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250992#250992>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List<http://www.matronics.co
m/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
What kind of horsepower, at what RPM were you getting?
Jack Phillips
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOPGUN
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 12:24 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Found My Engine!!
The engine was running on propane when i took it out......i made the intake
manifold and adapted an aircraft carb and for the dyno test, i used 100ll av
gas.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250961#250961
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
The center of gravity of the entire airplane needs to be somewhere between
about 15% and 33% of the way between the leading edge and trailing edge of
the wing, in order for the plane to have sufficient stability. If the CG is
forward of that range, the tail has insufficent force to be able to raise
the nose to a positive angle of attack and no lift can be generated. If the
CG is aft of that range, the plane will have "divergent stability" and will
be uncontrollable.
If the CG is too far aft, you can move it forward by moving something heavy
(say, the engine, for example) further forward.
Did you ever sit on a seesaw as a kid? If there was a fat kid sitting on
the other end, you were left in the air, with your feet dangling helplessly.
If you could only move a bit further away from the fulcrum, you could
balance his mass.
Take my word for it - one way to balance a tail-heavy Pietenpol with a light
engine is to make the engine mount longer (within limits - too long and you
start having directional stability issues, requiring a larger vertical
tail). Far easier is to shift the wing aft. Even though moving the wing
aft tends to move the CG aft as well (just slightly, due to the mass of the
wing which has moved aft) it moves the acceptable CG range aft and allows
the CG to fall within the acceptable range. Very few airplane designs can
be modified in this way - it is one of the great advantages of the Pietenpol
design. The GN-1 cannot be shifted like the Pietenpol can - there your only
choice is to move the engine, add ballast or lose weight yourself.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Will42
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
"moving the wing back would most certainly move the CG back as well"
Sorry, I wrote exactly opposite from what I was thinking on moving the wing.
My point is/was, the longer fuselage is recommended for the lighter engines
( Continental; Corvair) and I can't see how this is correct.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250992#250992
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
[quote="generambo(at)msn.com"] again, to quote Waldo, "I don't want to be a stickler
for accuracy" but moving the wing around is moving the center of lift
around, not the CG.
Gene
> ---
Moving the wing does move the center of lift; it also moves the CG as a result
of the new "moment" of the wing itself. If in doubt, look at a weight and balance
work sheet to confirm.
And certainly, moving a lighter engine forward moves the CG forward as can be noted
by the extremely long noses on turbine conversions, however none of this
addresses the reason for longer fuselages for the "lighter" engined Piets.
It seems the extended engine mount would be a simpler answer than a different fuselage
length; certainly moving the wing aft seems a reasonable solution to
an over-weight pilot.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251025#251025
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
Well, there is not necessarily a need for the longer fuselage for lighter
engined Piets. There are Piets flying just fine with fuselages built to the
'34 plans length and lighter Continental engines. And that statement got me
to thinkin'....I couldn't recall where Bernard wrote that you should use the
longer fuselage with lighter engines. Yes, it does mention that on the
family website where the supplemental plans pack is sold. But a look at the
plans sheet with the long fuselage drawing shows no mention that this
fuselage is intended for use with lighter engines. And in fact, a flip
through the builder's manual text reveals that the lengthening of the
fuselage to the "long" length was a modification made to an airframe that
was built purposely for testing with the Corvair engine. No mention is made
of the fuselage being lengthened to accomadate Continental or similar
lighter engines.
Either way, it has been shown that you can use either fuselage length. The
longer fuselage will weigh a little more than a similarly built short
fuselage, but (in my opinion) it feels less cramped due to the length added
in the cockpit.
Ryan
On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 6:16 PM, Will42 <will@cctc.net> wrote:
>
> [quote="generambo(at)msn.com"] again, to quote Waldo, "I don't want to be
> a stickler for accuracy" but moving the wing around is moving the center of
> lift around, not the CG.
>
> Gene
>
> > ---
>
>
> Moving the wing does move the center of lift; it also moves the CG as a
> result of the new "moment" of the wing itself. If in doubt, look at a weight
> and balance work sheet to confirm.
>
> And certainly, moving a lighter engine forward moves the CG forward as can
> be noted by the extremely long noses on turbine conversions, however none of
> this addresses the reason for longer fuselages for the "lighter" engined
> Piets.
>
> It seems the extended engine mount would be a simpler answer than a
> different fuselage length; certainly moving the wing aft seems a reasonable
> solution to an over-weight pilot.
>
> Will
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
"Anyone can provide accuracy"
------Original Message------
From: Will42
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Jul 1, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
[quote="generambo(at)msn.com"] again, to quote Waldo, "I don't want to be a stickler
for accuracy" but moving the wing around is moving the center of lift
around, not the CG.
Gene
> ---
Moving the wing does move the center of lift; it also moves the CG as a result
of the new "moment" of the wing itself. If in doubt, look at a weight and balance
work sheet to confirm.
And certainly, moving a lighter engine forward moves the CG forward as can be noted
by the extremely long noses on turbine conversions, however none of this
addresses the reason for longer fuselages for the "lighter" engined Piets.
It seems the extended engine mount would be a simpler answer than a different fuselage
length; certainly moving the wing aft seems a reasonable solution to
an over-weight pilot.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251025#251025
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
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DQo+DQo+IFdpbGwNCj4NCj4NCg0K
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Fuse. longerons bending |
I glued all gussets before joining the sides but I did leave off the plywood
sides until the entire fuselage was nearly complete including seats and all
controls. Made it much easier to get to everything.
rick
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 2:29 PM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> Did mine without the gussets in place and it worked out great. I also
> read of a similar account with gussets in place and the guy fount it
> impossible to get the bend and eventually ended up having some wood relieve
> the stress by breaking. I guess its a matter of who's account one is willing
> to follow and which suggestions to go
>
> I have had no problems out of mine and did not have to stretch or stress
> the gussets to bend so they now act as a force that holds the bend and
> resists the tendency for the bent wood to return to shape.
>
> John
>
> ------------------------------
> *A Good Credit Score is 700 or54393/aol?redir
> http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=JunestepsfooterNO62>See
> yours in just 2 easy steps!*
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
"Artists supply truth."
Do not archive
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jul 1, 2009, at 7:57 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote:
>
> "Anyone can provide accuracy"
> ------Original Message------
> From: Will42
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol builders Board
> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
> Sent: Jul 1, 2009 7:16 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
>
>
> [quote="generambo(at)msn.com"] again, to quote Waldo, "I don't want
> to be a stickler for accuracy" but moving the wing around is moving
> the center of lift around, not the CG.
>
> Gene
>
>> ---
>
>
> Moving the wing does move the center of lift; it also moves the CG
> as a result of the new "moment" of the wing itself. If in doubt,
> look at a weight and balance work sheet to confirm.
>
> And certainly, moving a lighter engine forward moves the CG forward
> as can be noted by the extremely long noses on turbine conversions,
> however none of this addresses the reason for longer fuselages for
> the "lighter" engined Piets.
>
> It seems the extended engine mount would be a simpler answer than a
> different fuselage length; certainly moving the wing aft seems a
> reasonable solution to an over-weight pilot.
>
> Will
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251025#251025
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
I built the long Piet with a Funk powered engine ( Ford B block ) the engine weight
was 257 Lbs. The radiator under the cowl. It flys all day at 87 MPH with
2 aboard.
The Piet I have now is the short version with a Funk engine, ( upside down ) and
the radiator in the standard position. It would fly 10 MPH slower with 2 aboard,
After increasing the HP to over 80 I can now fly at 87 MPH, Take your pick,
longer , gives pilot more leg room. Both flys great.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251057#251057
Message 36
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I waited too long and forgot about the camping reservations thru Bill
Rewey. Is anyone else planning on pre reserving space for camping at
OSH?
Dick N.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Found My Engine!! |
if you look at the chart above you can see the tq and hp. i inserted an excel file,
but it bunched all the numbers together.........
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251064#251064
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
Doesn't moving the wing back move the CG forward relative to the
leading edge?
Moving the wing back creates a longer nose moment.
On Jul 1, 2009, at 5:09 PM, Jack Phillips wrote:
> >
>
> The center of gravity of the entire airplane needs to be somewhere
> between
> about 15% and 33% of the way between the leading edge and trailing
> edge of
> the wing, in order for the plane to have sufficient stability. If
> the CG is
> forward of that range, the tail has insufficent force to be able to
> raise
> the nose to a positive angle of attack and no lift can be
> generated. If the
> CG is aft of that range, the plane will have "divergent stability"
> and will
> be uncontrollable.
>
> If the CG is too far aft, you can move it forward by moving
> something heavy
> (say, the engine, for example) further forward.
>
> Did you ever sit on a seesaw as a kid? If there was a fat kid
> sitting on
> the other end, you were left in the air, with your feet dangling
> helplessly.
> If you could only move a bit further away from the fulcrum, you could
> balance his mass.
>
> Take my word for it - one way to balance a tail-heavy Pietenpol with
> a light
> engine is to make the engine mount longer (within limits - too long
> and you
> start having directional stability issues, requiring a larger vertical
> tail). Far easier is to shift the wing aft. Even though moving the
> wing
> aft tends to move the CG aft as well (just slightly, due to the mass
> of the
> wing which has moved aft) it moves the acceptable CG range aft and
> allows
> the CG to fall within the acceptable range. Very few airplane
> designs can
> be modified in this way - it is one of the great advantages of the
> Pietenpol
> design. The GN-1 cannot be shifted like the Pietenpol can - there
> your only
> choice is to move the engine, add ballast or lose weight yourself.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Will42
> Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2009 3:53 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Fuselage length
>
>
> "moving the wing back would most certainly move the CG back as well"
>
> Sorry, I wrote exactly opposite from what I was thinking on moving
> the wing.
>
>
> My point is/was, the longer fuselage is recommended for the lighter
> engines
> ( Continental; Corvair) and I can't see how this is correct.
>
> Will
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=250992#250992
>
>
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage length |
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IFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCg0KDQo
Message 40
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| Subject: | Brodhead from Minneapolis area? |
Anyone interested in flying down to Brodhead from MPLS area? I have plane
and tentatively plan to fly down Friday and return home Saturday. Would be
interested in someone who'd be willing to pitch in for fuel=2C time...
Tom B.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Re: seeing the instruments |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Good message Oscar,
I have to agree with you and Jack and Bill and all the others that have commented
on modifications to the Piet. I still think that maybe the best modification
to a Piet might be to add a foot length to each wing to help offset Jack's
96 degree weather. Of course that then means checking wing s par strength, etc.
My Piet is being built to the plans (long fuselage) with a Corvair engine and since
I am only 5 feet 6 inches and a stout 185 I think I should be okay. By the
way I have the landing gear legs on it now but have to finish shock struts before
I can remove the steel bar between them. Looking forward to seeing all the
Piets at Brodhead this year.
Jim B.
On Jun 30, 2009, taildrags@hotmail.com wrote:
Jim;
I worried about seeing the instruments. I need "cheaters" or
bifocals to see things up close and the restrictions on my
airman medical say I need to have corrective lenses when I
fly. I wear contact lenses for distant vision but for near
vision I always carry reading glasses with me when I fly but
I've never had occasion to take them out because I can always
see what needs to be seen without them. I have NO digital
displays or instruments but if I did, I might need those readers
to see some of the text. With analog gauges, a quick glance
shows me what I need to know without hesitating or guessing.
Can you tell that I'm a "steam gauge" type of guy? ;o)
When I fly X-C, I fly with a kneeboard and a folded sectional,
with my route of flight laid out and highlighted. I have not
had any problem seeing my next checkpoint on the chart, down
on my knee in the cockpit.
I'm in a little bit of trouble if I have to read the airport
info or radio frequencies in tiny print on the chart or if I
need to read the tenths and hundredths of tach time in the little
window on the tach but, oddly enough, I have no trouble dialing
in the altimeter reading (barometric pressure) in the Kollsman
window. I can read every gauge on the panel and everything in
the panel of 41CC is a dial instrument, set in the stock
configuration per plans, and with the green-yellow-red ranges
marked on the gauges. Even a child can tell if everything is
in the green and that's all you need to see in flight. When
you're flying a Piet, the first one or two digits on the right
of any gauge readout don't interest you anyway ;o)
Don't over-think this stuff. If you sit in the shop and worry
about what-ifs, you'll worry yourself silly and you'll never
finish the airplane. I am also a scuba diver and I tend to use
the same philosophy in my dive gear... simple and lean. I
have to laugh as I watch gadget freaks waddle off with things
hanging from clips and lanyards all over their suits and BCs,
and with plotters and aids and gizmos on every D-ring and strap...
and they get so consumed with what might happen that they never
enjoy the dive. Me, I fly the airplane and just check the
gauges to confirm what the airplane and engine are telling me.
The Piet talks real pretty and sweet, and only an occasional
glance at the gauges is needed to confirm what the airplane
tells you.
I never thought I'd say this since I'm an engineer and a
detailer, CAD designer and an experimenter, but the Piet design
is well proven for over 80 years now, so I'm going to join the
chorus and here goes: "build it to the plans and you'll do
just fine!"
Any changes you want to make, you can make after you fly off
those test hours or after you start your NEXT Piet and are
enjoying flying your first one!!!! Yes, there are repeat
offenders on this list... I already have a set of landing gear
and a Corvair engine and prop for my next Air Camper.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: seeing the instruments |
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Hi again Oscar;
Forgot to comment on seeing the instruments. I don't need glasses for distance
but do need reading glasses for seeing up close. Thats why I have slanted my
instrument panel so it is 1 inch back at the top which angle helps me see it a
little better. Probably the same effect leaning back the rear seat would have.
Jim
On Jun 30, 2009, taildrags@hotmail.com wrote:
Jim;
I worried about seeing the instruments. I need "cheaters" or
bifocals to see things up close and the restrictions on my
airman medical say I need to have corrective lenses when I
fly. I wear contact lenses for distant vision but for near
vision I always carry reading glasses with me when I fly but
I've never had occasion to take them out because I can always
see what needs to be seen without them. I have NO digital
displays or instruments but if I did, I might need those readers
to see some of the text. With analog gauges, a quick glance
shows me what I need to know without hesitating or guessing.
Can you tell that I'm a "steam gauge" type of guy? ;o)
When I fly X-C, I fly with a kneeboard and a folded sectional,
with my route of flight laid out and highlighted. I have not
had any problem seeing my next checkpoint on the chart, down
on my knee in the cockpit.
I'm in a little bit of trouble if I have to read the airport
info or radio frequencies in tiny print on the chart or if I
need to read the tenths and hundredths of tach time in the little
window on the tach but, oddly enough, I have no trouble dialing
in the altimeter reading (barometric pressure) in the Kollsman
window. I can read every gauge on the panel and everything in
the panel of 41CC is a dial instrument, set in the stock
configuration per plans, and with the green-yellow-red ranges
marked on the gauges. Even a child can tell if everything is
in the green and that's all you need to see in flight. When
you're flying a Piet, the first one or two digits on the right
of any gauge readout don't interest you anyway ;o)
Don't over-think this stuff. If you sit in the shop and worry
about what-ifs, you'll worry yourself silly and you'll never
finish the airplane. I am also a scuba diver and I tend to use
the same philosophy in my dive gear... simple and lean. I
have to laugh as I watch gadget freaks waddle off with things
hanging from clips and lanyards all over their suits and BCs,
and with plotters and aids and gizmos on every D-ring and strap...
and they get so consumed with what might happen that they never
enjoy the dive. Me, I fly the airplane and just check the
gauges to confirm what the airplane and engine are telling me.
The Piet talks real pretty and sweet, and only an occasional
glance at the gauges is needed to confirm what the airplane
tells you.
I never thought I'd say this since I'm an engineer and a
detailer, CAD designer and an experimenter, but the Piet design
is well proven for over 80 years now, so I'm going to join the
chorus and here goes: "build it to the plans and you'll do
just fine!"
Any changes you want to make, you can make after you fly off
those test hours or after you start your NEXT Piet and are
enjoying flying your first one!!!! Yes, there are repeat
offenders on this list... I already have a set of landing gear
and a Corvair engine and prop for my next Air Camper.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 43
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) below. The
complete Pietenpol-List FAQ including the Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
[ Note: This FAQ was designed to be displayed with a fixed width font such as
Courier. Proportional fonts will cause display formatting errors. ]
This FAQ can also be viewed in HTML online at the following address:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm
************************************************************
******* LIST POLICIES AND FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS *******
************************************************************
PLEASE READ. This document contains Pietenpol-List policies and information
for new and old subscribers. Understanding the Pietenpol-List policies will
minimize problems for the Administrator, and will help keep the Pietenpol-List
running smoothly for all of us.
******************************************
*** Quick Start Guide to List Features ***
******************************************
There are many features available on the Matronics Email Lists and each
one is described in detailed below. However, using the List Navigator
you can quickly access the complete set of features available for this
List. The List Navigator can be found at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
****************************************
*** How to Subscribe and Unsubscribe ***
****************************************
Simply go to the Web Page shown below and enter your email address and
select the List(s) that you wish to subscribe or unsubscribed from. You
may also use the handy "Find" function to determine the exact syntax of
your email address as it is subscribed to the List. Please see the
complete instructions at the top of the Web Page for more information.
The Subscribe/Unsubscribe web page is:
http://www.matronics.com/subscribe
Note that you will receive TWO conformation emails regarding your subsciption
process. The first verifies that your subscription/unsubsciption request
was received, and the second confirms that the process has been completed.
You should receive the first email within a few minutes of your request.
The second conformation will arrive in less than 24 hours. You cannot post
until you receive the second conformation email message.
*****************************
*** How to Post a Message ***
*****************************
Send an email message to:
pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Your message will be redistributed to everyone currently subscribed
to the List.
*****************************************************
*** SPAM Fighter - You Must be Subscribed to Post ***
*****************************************************
When a new post is received by the system, the From: line of the message
is checked and compared against the current subscription list. If the
email address is found, the message is passed on to the List Processor.
If the email address isn't found in the current list of subscribers, it
is dumped. This serves to very effectively thwart 99% of the SPAM that
gets posted to the Lists.
Remember, however, that the syntax of your email address is very important
with regard to the configuration of your email application such as Outlook
or Eudora. For example, the following two email addresses may be
functionally equivalent, but only one would pass the Matronics Email SPAM
test depending on which was syntax was subscribed to the given List:
smith@machine.domain.com
smith@domain.com
Either email address syntax is alright, just be sure that you configure
your email application to match *exactly* the address you've subscibed to
the List.
**************************************
*** Enclosure Support on the Lists ***
**************************************
Limited posting of enclosures such as pictures, documents, and spreadsheets
is supported on the Lists. There are a number of restrictions, and these
are detailed below. Please abide by the rules put forth regarding the
content of enclosures.
These are some of the features and limits of enclosures on the Matronics
Lists:
1) Enclosures will only be posted to the Real Time version of the Lists.
2) Enclosures will NOT be included in the Daily Digest version of the Lists.
3) Enclosures WILL BE forwarded on to the BBS Forum Web site.
4) Enclosures will NOT be appended to the Archives.
5) Enclosures will NOT be available in the List Browse feature.
6) Only the following file types and extensions will be allowed:
bmp doc dwg dxf gif jpg pdf png txt xls
All other enclosures types will be rejected and email returned to
sender. The enclosure types listed above are relatively safe from
a virus standpoint and don't pose a particularly large security risk.
7) !! All incoming enclosures will be scanned for viruses prior to posting
to the List. This is done in real time and will not slow down
the process of posting the message !!
Here are some rules for posting enclosures. Failure to abide by these rules
could result in the removal of a subscriber's email address from the Lists.
1) Pay attention to what you are posting!! Make sure that the files
you are enclosing aren't HUGE (greater that 1MB). Remember that there
are still people checking they're email via dial up modem. If you post
30MB worth of pictures, you are placing an unnecessary burden on these
folks and the rest of us, for that matter.
2) SCALE YOUR PICTURES DOWN!!! I don't want to see huge 3000 x 2000
pictures getting posted that are 3 or 4MB each. This is just
unacceptable. Use a program such as Photoshop to scale the picture
down to something on the order of 800 x 600 and try to keep the
file size to less-than 200KB, preferably much less.
Microsoft has a really awesome utility available for free that allows
you to Right-Click on a picture in Explorer and automatically
scale it down and resave it. This is a great utility - get it, use it!
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx
Look for the link "Image Resizer"
3) !! This would seem to go without saying, but I'll say it anyway. Do not
post anything that would be considered offensive by your grandmother.
And you know what I'm saying; I don't want to see anything even
questionable. !!
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BE COURTEOUS!
Also see the section below on the Matronics Photo and File Share where
you can have your files and photos posted on the Matronics web server
for long time viewing and availability.
*******************
*** Digest Mode ***
*******************
Each day, starting at 12 midnight PST US, a new 'digest' will be started.
This digest will contain the same information that is currently appended
to the archive file. It has all of the headers except for the "From:"
and "Subject:" lines removed, and includes a message separator consisting
of a line of underscores.
Each day at 23:55 PST US, the day's messages as described above will be
combined and sent as a single message to everyone on the digest email list.
To subscribe to the digest list, use the same subscription web form
described above, and just select the Digest version of the List.
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Note that you *can* be subscribed to both the realtime and digest versions
of the List at the same time. This is perfectly acceptable.
Now some caveats:
* Messages sent to "pietenpol-list-digest" will be forwarded to the standard
email list. In other words, you cannot post messages only to the
digest List.
* If you are subscribed to both the regular List and the digest List, you
will receive the realtime postings as well as the digest at the end of
the day.
* If you reply to the digest email, your message will be forwarded to the
normal list associated with the digest. Important Note: Please change
the subject line to reflect the topic of your response! Also, please
*do not include all or most of the digest in your reply*.
****************************
*** List Digest Browser ***
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An archive of all the List Digests can be found online in either plain text
or HTML format. These archives contain the exact Digest that was posted to
the Digest email list on the given day. The Digest Archives can be found
at the following location:
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*****************************************
*** The "DO NOT ARCHIVE" Message Flag ***
*****************************************
At times, your message may concern something that is revelent only to a very
small number of persons or to a limited area, and you may not wish to archive
it. In such a case, simply put the following phrase anywhere in the
message:
do not archive
Your message will not be appended to the archive, but will be sent to List
email distribution as normal.
**********************************************
***** READ THIS - Automatic Unsubscribes *****
**********************************************
Note that if your email address begins to cause problems such as bounced
email, mailbox is filled, or any other errors, your address will be promptly
removed from the List. If you discover that you are no longer receiving
messages from the Pietenpol-List, go to the following Web page, and look
for your email address and a possible reason for your removal.
The Matronics Email List uses utility called the "Email Weasel" that
automatically looks though the day's bounced email for addresses that
caused problems due to common things like "user is unknown", "mailbox
full", etc. If the Email Weasel removes your email address from the
Lists you will find record of it at the following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/unsubscribed
If the problem listed on the web site above has been resolved, please feel
free to resubscribe to the Lists of your choice.
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*** List Member Information ***
*******************************
If you have not done so already, please email me your phone numbers and
paper mail address in the following format:
smith@somehost.com
Joe Smith
123 Airport Lane
Tower, CA 91234-1234
098-765-1234 w
123-456-7890 h
Please forward this information to the following email address:
requests@matronics.com
I have a file of such things, that I typically use to contact you when
there are problems with your email address. The information will NOT
be used for any other commercial purpose.
****************************************
*** Realtime Web Email List Browsing ***
****************************************
Recent messages posted to the Pietenpol-List are also made available on
the Web for realtime browsing. Seven days worth of back postings are
available with this feature. The messages can be sorted by Subject,
Author, Date, or Message Thread. The Realtime List Browser indexes are
updated twice per hour at xx:15 and xx:45. You can also reply to a message
or start a new message directly from the List Browser Interface (coming soon).
You do not have to be subscribed to the given list to use the List
Browser Interface in view-mode.
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/pietenpol-list
*******************************************
*** Web Forums Bulletin Board Interface ***
*******************************************
A phpBB BBS web Forums front end is available for all Pietenpol-List content.
content. The Forums contain all of the same content available via the email
distribution and found on the various archive viewing formats such as the
List Browse, etc. Any posts on the web Forums will be cross posted to the
respective email List, and posts to the Email List will be cross posted to
the web Forums.
You may view all List content on the Forums without any special login.
If you wish to post a message via the Web Forum interface, however, you
will need to Register. This is a simple process that takes only a few
minutes. A link to the Registration page can be found at the top of the
main web Forums page. Note that registering on the Forum web site also
enables you to send email posts to the Lists as well. You will also need to
Subscribe to the respective Email List as described above to receive the
Email Distribution of the List, however.
The Matroincs Email List Web BBS Forums can be found at the following URL:
http://forums.matronics.com
*********************************
*** Matronics Email List Wiki ***
*********************************
In an attempt to make it easy to store and find structured and often accessed
information, Matronics has installed a Wiki at:
http://wiki.matronics.com
The Wiki allows individuals to create web pages to contain useful information
for other users of the mailing lists and web site. Unlike an ordinary web page
where the content needs to be submitted to Matronics for inclusion, the Wiki
permits the users to construct their own pages and have them visible immediately.
While constructing pages for the Wiki is not difficult, some may not be
comfortable building pages. In that case, simply prepare the text and any
images and email it to:
wiki-support@matronics.com
One of the volunteers on that list will take your submission and construct
a Wiki page for you.
Often someone produces a particularly useful posting in email one one of the
Lists that would be of general interest. In that case Matronics may take that
post and convert it into a Wiki page.
*********************
*** List Archives ***
*********************
A file containing of all of the previous postings to the Pietenpol-List is
available on line. The archive file information is available via the
Web and FTP in a number of forms. Each are briefly described below:
* Pietenpol-List.FAQ
- Latest version of the Pietenpol-List Frequently Asked Question
page (this document).
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete
- Complete file with most of the email header info removed and
page breaks inserted between messages.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.vol-??
- Same as the file above, but broken up into small sections that
can more easily handled.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.zip
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but
in PKZIP format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
* Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete.Z
- Same as the Pietenpol-Archive.digest.complete file above, but in
UNIX compress format. Use "binary" data transfer methods.
Download Via FTP
----------------
The archive file is available via anonymous FTP from ftp.matronics.com
in the "/pub/Archives" directory. It is updated daily and can be found in
a number of formats as described above. (All filenames are case sensitive.)
ftp://ftp.matronics.com/pub/Archives
Download Via Web
----------------
The archives are also available via a web listing. These can be found
toward the bottom of the following web page:
http://www.matronics.com/archives
******************************************
*** Complete List Web Archive Browsing ***
******************************************
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Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
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The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
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agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
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comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
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[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
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| Subject: | Official Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines |
Dear Listers,
Please read over the Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines below. The complete
Pietenpol-List FAQ including these Usage Guidelines can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/Pietenpol-List.FAQ.html
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
******************************************************************************
Pietenpol-List Usage Guidelines
******************************************************************************
The following details the official Usage Guidelines for the Pietenpol-List.
You are encouraged to read it carefully, and to abide by the rules therein.
Failure to use the Pietenpol-List in the manner described below may result
in the removal of the subscribers from the List.
Pietenpol-List Policy Statement
The purpose of the Pietenpol-List is to provide a forum of discussion for
things related to this particular discussion group. The List's goals
are to serve as an information resource to its members; to deliver
high-quality content; to provide moral support; to foster camaraderie
among its members; and to support safe operation. Reaching these goals
requires the participation and cooperation of each and every member of
the List. To this end, the following guidelines have been established:
- Please keep all posts related to the List at some level. Do not submit
posts concerning computer viruses, urban legends, random humor, long
lost buddies' phone numbers, etc. etc.
- THINK carefully before you write. Ask yourself if your post will be
relevant to everyone. If you have to wonder about that, DON'T send it.
- Remember that your post will be included for posterity in an archive
that is growing in size at an extraordinary rate. Try to be concise and
terse in your posts. Avoid overly wordy and lengthy posts and
responses.
- Keep your signature brief. Please include your name, email address,
aircraft type/tail number, and geographic location. A short line
about where you are in the building process is also nice. Avoid
bulky signatures with character graphics; they consume unnecessary
space in the archive.
- DON'T post requests to the List for information when that info is
easily obtainable from other widely available sources. Consult the
web page or FAQ first.
- If you want to respond to a post, DO keep the "Subject:" line of
your response the same as that of the original post. This makes it
easy to find threads in the archive.
- When responding, NEVER quote the *entire* original post in your
response. DO use lines from the original post to help "tune in" the
reader to the topic at hand, but be selective. The impact that
quoting the entire original post has on the size of the archive
can not be overstated!
- When the poster asks you to respond to him/her personally, DO NOT
then go ahead and reply to the List. Be aware that clicking the
"reply" button on your mail package does not necessarily send your
response to the original poster. You might have to actively address
your response with the original poster's email address.
- DO NOT use the List to respond to a post unless you have something
to add that is relevant and has a broad appeal. "Way to go!", "I
agree", and "Congratulations" are all responses that are better sent
to the original poster directly, rather than to the List at large.
- When responding to others' posts, avoid the feeling that you need to
comment on every last point in their posts, unless you can truly
contribute something valuable.
- Feel free to disagree with other viewpoints, BUT keep your tone
polite and respectful. Don't make snide comments, personally attack
other listers, or take the moral high ground on an obviously
controversial issue. This will only cause a pointless debate that
will hurt feelings, waste bandwidth and resolve nothing.
- Occasional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
-------
[This is an automated posting.]
do not archive
Message 45
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| PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
| NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
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Hi, I am using the 1.5 mm okume for sheeting the leading edge of the
wing, I feel it is too weak for any other part of a pietenpol. Okume ply
seems to be used for the structure of several French designs that
require light weight, but of course they would be engineered to take
account of the lower strength of the ply. It is soft and easily dented.
Regards Mike T.
ps. I'm assembling the wooden undercart and would like to fit brakes,
the problem is stopping the axle turning whilst not restricting the axle
movement, I have seen the peg and socket idea but wondered if there were
any alternatives that someone may have come up with?
----- Original Message -----
From: Isablcorky@aol.com
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2009 1:51 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Plywoods
Pieters,
About 1/8 and 1/16 plywood. found a source of OKUME plywood. There are
two grades ( and prices) for the 1/8th. European $51.20 a sheet 4x8,
Asian $26.00. For 1/16th it's $36.80 for a 4x8 sheet. 1/4 in 4x8 sheet
$53.60
Have anyone of you used this type wood or know of it's use in our
airplane building?
The broker did mention how light this wood is.
Compared to Wicks prices, seems unreal
Shall we have some Piet gab on this subject?
Corky
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