Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:13 AM - Rib construction photos (Ken Howe)
2. 03:44 AM - Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe (helspersew@aol.com)
3. 04:44 AM - Re: Brodhead visit - help camping?? (Ryan Mueller)
4. 05:12 AM - Re: Rib construction photos (Kip and Beth Gardner)
5. 05:32 AM - Re: New builder: An Introduction (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
6. 06:34 AM - Re: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering (hvandervoo@aol.com)
7. 07:04 AM - Re: Rib construction photos (Ken Howe)
8. 07:05 AM - Re: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering (Bill Church)
9. 07:08 AM - Re: AIrfoil can of worms? (Pieti Lowell)
10. 07:50 AM - motor mounts (Richard Schreiber)
11. 08:13 AM - Re: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering (Bill Church)
12. 08:36 AM - Re: Rib construction photos (K5YAC)
13. 08:53 AM - Re: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering (hvandervoo@aol.com)
14. 08:53 AM - Re: Brodhead visit - help camping?? (Dick N.)
15. 09:00 AM - Re: New builder: An Introduction (K5YAC)
16. 09:11 AM - Re: Re: New builder: An Introduction (amsafetyc@aol.com)
17. 09:11 AM - Re: motor mounts (Ed G.)
18. 09:12 AM - Re: Re: AIrfoil can of worms? (Isablcorky@aol.com)
19. 09:13 AM - Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe (Roman Bukolt)
20. 09:14 AM - Re: Re: New builder: An Introduction (Roman Bukolt)
21. 09:15 AM - Re: motor mounts (hvandervoo@aol.com)
22. 09:38 AM - Re: Re: New builder: An Introduction (John Hofmann)
23. 09:40 AM - Re: Rib construction photos (Mark Roberts)
24. 09:41 AM - A Little Off Topic (K5YAC)
25. 10:13 AM - Re: A Little Off Topic (899PM)
26. 10:15 AM - Re: A Little Off Topic (K5YAC)
27. 10:23 AM - Re: New builder: An Introduction (K5YAC)
28. 10:25 AM - Re: Re: New builder: An Introduction (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
29. 10:53 AM - Re: A Little Off Topic (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
30. 10:53 AM - Re: motor mounts (Richard Schreiber)
31. 11:03 AM - Re: A Little Off Topic (K5YAC)
32. 11:12 AM - Re: Re: A Little Off Topic (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
33. 11:22 AM - Re: motor mounts (hvandervoo@aol.com)
34. 11:41 AM - Re: motor mounts (Bill Church)
35. 12:00 PM - Re: T-88 (jimd)
36. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: A Little Off Topic (Jim Markle)
37. 12:44 PM - Re: T-88 (Glenn Thomas)
38. 12:51 PM - couple more Brodhead pics (Roman Bukolt)
39. 01:02 PM - Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe (Don Emch)
40. 01:04 PM - Re: couple more Brodhead pics (Don Emch)
41. 01:05 PM - Re: Plywoods (Glenn Thomas)
42. 01:18 PM - Re: Looking for someone. (Glenn Thomas)
43. 01:24 PM - Re: motor mounts (Richard Schreiber)
44. 01:25 PM - Re: couple more Brodhead pics (Gary Boothe)
45. 03:12 PM - Czech Piet (Baldeagle)
46. 03:40 PM - Re: AIrfoil can of worms? (Terry Williams)
47. 03:46 PM - Re: Brodhead visit - help camping?? (Jack Phillips)
48. 03:56 PM - Re: Czech Piet (Gary Boothe)
49. 04:03 PM - Re: motor mounts (Jack Phillips)
50. 04:08 PM - Re: AIrfoil can of worms? (Terry Williams)
51. 04:40 PM - Re: Czech Piet (Michael Silvius)
52. 05:36 PM - Brodhead (x GOYENI)
53. 05:40 PM - Re: Czech Piet (Mark Roberts)
54. 05:52 PM - Re: Czech Piet (airlion@bellsouth.net)
55. 05:52 PM - Re: Brodhead (Jack Phillips)
56. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe (Roman Bukolt)
57. 07:19 PM - Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe (Don Emch)
58. 07:25 PM - Re: motor mounts (Richard Schreiber)
59. 09:43 PM - Re: Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering (shad bell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Rib construction photos |
As promised, here's a few pictures of my rib building. First of all, I
decided not use use staples or nails for gluing the gussets. Instead I'm
simply using a steel weight to apply the minimum pressure that System
Three says to use with T-88. The weights came from a local scrap yard -
old bolts and sawed up chunks of a 1 3/16" rod. I ran then over a 50
grit belt on my sander to get rid of the rust and make a reasonably flat
surface. To prevent permanently gluing blocks of steel to my ribs I cut
3" squares of 4 mil poly to place over each gusset. The epoxy is
slippery enough that I just tugged this way and that on the weighted
piece of poly until the gusset was just where I wanted it.
The final two shots are my approach to blocking at the trailing edge and
around the front spar. As mentioned on the 'can of worms' thread, the
Riblett section is thicker than the original Piet section. I've decided
size the spars per the plans and use spacer's for the difference. The
rear spar sits directly on the bottom capstrip, and there's a small
space between the top of the spar and the upper strip. The airfoil
section at the front spar location is significantly thicker on the
Riblett, and most of the extra is below the chord line. I've sized a
block to fit under the spar. There will be just a small triangular space
above the spar. I'll fill above both spars with wedges when I fit the
ribs on to the spars. These pictures were taken with the first side
glued up and the rib flipped over and sitting in a simple jig to hold it
securely for gluing the second side. I've also inserted a wedge at the
trailing edge to make that a secure joint.
--Ken
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe |
Mike,
That is the beauty of Brodhead. Not much is "clear" when you get there. Just about
any?empty space is good for you to pitch your tent, but I would not recommend
right next to the porta-potties :o). This is a very laid back event. The parking
is not "clear" either. Just pull up next to somebody else and pay the fee
(NOT). The local EAA chapter sells the buttons for the camping fee under the
pavillion there. There are also a few "vendors" that will be hawking a few things
sitting at the picnic tables under the pavillion. One of them will be me,
with my prop-carving CD. I will be running a "show special" of $15.00 per copy
:0)
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Simmons <ml.simmons@verizon.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:14 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe
?
I am planning to make it to my first Brodhead reunion fairly late Friday night/Sat.
morning. From searching the archives, sounds like it's OK to just find a
spot to pitch your tent amongst the others and find the bucket for a donation.
Is this still true? Is there any insight as to where to park or are the instructions
pretty clear once you get there? Any advice on what to do from some of
those reunion veterans out there would be much appreciated?
?
?
?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead visit - help camping?? |
Dick,
You mentioned planes making fuel stops on the way to OSH; do we know
for sure that there is or will be fuel this year at Brodhead? I ask
because the last I heard was from a friend that volunteered at the
pancake breakfast towards the latter part of May, and he made a
comment in an email about trying to do Young Eagles at the event with
no fuel on the field. The last mention on the 431 website was of
fencing being installed in May that brings things closer to
operational status, but no mention of when or if they will actually be
back up. I know that was over a month ago, but it may be worth
confirming if they will actually have the new tanks running in time.
Anyone else know any more current news?
Ryan
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:29 PM, "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
> >
>
> Reply for Lorin and Steve Sadler
> There is camping on the field at Brodhead. There is plenty of
> camping space. No electrical hookups or waste dumps. There are are
> showers available and some food service. The walk into town is
> short to McDonalds, Subway and other places. There is a grocery
> store and hardware store in town. Brodhead is a very small town and
> the airport is to the south of the main hwy just west of the
> McDonalds. This is an informal event, they sell buttons, $5, to
> help with expenses. There is also a Hatz bi plane flying on the
> other end of the field. Also there are some mighty nice planes
> making fuel stops on the way to OSH.
> Dick N.
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:08 PM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit - help camping??
>
>
>> >
>>
>> Folks,
>> I'm heading to Brodhead this year for the first time. I've
>> volunteered to help haul camping gear and fuel to Oshkosh for those
>> flying over to Oshkosh en-mass. I'll be bringing up my enclosed 16'
>> toy hauler for this.
>> Question for you - where is a good place to camp at nearby where I
>> can grab a shower? I don't want to be too far away as loading the
>> trailer would otherwise be painful.
>>
>> Lorin Miller
>>
>> lorin.miller@emerson.com
>> 641-485-0840
>> Sonex/Waiex ~80% done
>> Piet next up
>> Colo, Iowa
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251803#251803
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rib construction photos |
Ken,
Nice pictures of your rib setup.
Your comments raised one question about the Riblett airfoil that I
had not yet been able to ask that maybe you or Mr. Lowell could address.
Mark Roberts mentioned a related issue in one of his posts.
I see that you are setting your ribs relative to the chord line.
This makes sense to me - if I understand things correctly, this sets
the ribs at zero incidence relative to the spars, ands any change in
incidence would then be set by adjusting the struts. Are you also
then setting your spars at 90 degrees to the chord line? Again, I
assume you would because that would make the most sense.
Thanks!
Kip Gardner
On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:56 AM, Ken Howe wrote:
> As promised, here's a few pictures of my rib building. First of
> all, I decided not use use staples or nails for gluing the gussets.
> Instead I'm simply using a steel weight to apply the minimum
> pressure that System Three says to use with T-88. The weights came
> from a local scrap yard - old bolts and sawed up chunks of a 1
> 3/16" rod. I ran then over a 50 grit belt on my sander to get rid
> of the rust and make a reasonably flat surface. To prevent
> permanently gluing blocks of steel to my ribs I cut 3" squares of 4
> mil poly to place over each gusset. The epoxy is slippery enough
> that I just tugged this way and that on the weighted piece of poly
> until the gusset was just where I wanted it.
>
> The final two shots are my approach to blocking at the trailing
> edge and around the front spar. As mentioned on the 'can of worms'
> thread, the Riblett section is thicker than the original Piet
> section. I've decided size the spars per the plans and use spacer's
> for the difference. The rear spar sits directly on the bottom
> capstrip, and there's a small space between the top of the spar and
> the upper strip. The airfoil section at the front spar location is
> significantly thicker on the Riblett, and most of the extra is
> below the chord line. I've sized a block to fit under the spar.
> There will be just a small triangular space above the spar. I'll
> fill above both spars with wedges when I fit the ribs on to the
> spars. These pictures were taken with the first side glued up and
> the rib flipped over and sitting in a simple jig to hold it
> securely for gluing the second side. I've also inserted a wedge at
> the trailing edge to make that a secure joint.
>
> --Ken<1st Rib-0003-20090705.jpg><1st Rib-0005-20090705.jpg><1st
> Rib-0006-20090705.jpg><1st Rib-0008-20090706.jpg><1st
> Rib-0009-20090706.jpg>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
Ken,
Sounds perfect, no reason not to start as soon as possible and avoid the
rush, as you get more and more into your project and the addiction grows, you
will more than likely get her upset with you anyway so you might as well
start early, you can start now and come to Brodhead or start later and miss
Brodhead, the end result is youre gonna get her upset with you anyway. No
woman is that understanding
John
**************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
(http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering |
I use 3/4" Matco axles (4140) with 6" Matco wheels on my Pietenpol successfully.
Had some rough landings, no bending (so far)
Please note during most "hard" landings (with forward speed) a lot of weight is
still carried by the wing.
A "hard" landing without forward speed is a......not something you walk away from.
Only at stand still you will see full load on the wheel, this is the "static load"
The dynamic load or kinematic load of these wheels is usually much higher, on the
6" Matco it is 2000 Lbs (per wheel)
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Mon, Jul 6, 2009 2:58 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering
Steve,
?
I think?that the 3/4" axles are likely intended for Ultralights.
With the Piet, you are likely looking at an overall weight (plane + pilot + passenger
+ fuel) somewhere around 1200 lbs. If (when) you make a hard landing, you
could easily double that loading. And it is likely that one wheel will hit
the ground before the other, so that axle will be taking the full load (momentarily,
at least), which could be around 4-5000 lbs. I don't have my calculator
handy, but I think that's a little more than 660 lbs.
?
As for the wheels you have, it's hard to say, without seeing them - But it MAY
be possible to bore out a bigger hole, and put a bronze bushing in place?to accept
a bigger axle - depends on the geometry of the wheel, and what it's made
of (and a bunch of other stuff).
?
Bill C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of steven sadler
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering
The wheel and axle question is a bit of a stumper. I reviewed the yield (strength
before the part takes a permanent bend) strength with a structural engineer
I know. He wasn't familiar with how loads will be distributed on a cantilevered
axle, so we made some assumptions. The result as I mentioned before is that
the smaller axle wouldn't be strong enough at 5/8" or at 3/4". However, I have
seen Aicraft Spruce selling 3/4" axles rated for 660 pounds per wheel (i.e.
1320 lbs total) so I don't know what to think.
?
Basically, I am trying to decide whether?I can use the wheels I have or bite the
bullet and buy a whole new set of name brand wheels (Cleveland or ...) with
a 1-1/2" axle. I am hoping someone on the list has already been down this road
and has some wisdom to pass along. Since I am heading down to Brodhead and Oshkosh
in a few weeks, I will be buying some parts, just trying to decide if wheels
should be on my shopping list.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: steven sadler
Sent: Jul 5, 2009 8:26 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering
2) Has anyone used the Azusa 4.8 x 8 wheels on their Piet? I have a set with the
5/8"axles and after reviewing the math with a structural engineer, the axle
seems to be too weak, even with a solid 4130 axle. Even switching out the bearings
and installing 3/4" axles seems a little iffy. Any one with experience using
smaller axles on their Piet?
Steve in Winnipeg (Fuselage framed, controls partially complete,
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rib construction photos |
Yes, I've laid out my spars perpendicular to the chord line. I looked at
setting them relative to a base line drawn tangent to the lowest points
fore and aft, but it's only a couple degrees difference if you look at
the drawing the Mark posted. I'll adjust the strut lengths to set the
angle of incidence.
--Ken
Kip and Beth Gardner wrote:
> <kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> Nice pictures of your rib setup.
>
> Your comments raised one question about the Riblett airfoil that I had
> not yet been able to ask that maybe you or Mr. Lowell could address.
>
> Mark Roberts mentioned a related issue in one of his posts.
>
> I see that you are setting your ribs relative to the chord line. This
> makes sense to me - if I understand things correctly, this sets the
> ribs at zero incidence relative to the spars, ands any change in
> incidence would then be set by adjusting the struts. Are you also then
> setting your spars at 90 degrees to the chord line? Again, I assume you
> would because that would make the most sense.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Kip Gardner
>
>
> On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:56 AM, Ken Howe wrote:
>
>> As promised, here's a few pictures of my rib building. First of all, I
>> decided not use use staples or nails for gluing the gussets. Instead
>> I'm simply using a steel weight to apply the minimum pressure that
>> System Three says to use with T-88. The weights came from a local
>> scrap yard - old bolts and sawed up chunks of a 1 3/16" rod. I ran
>> then over a 50 grit belt on my sander to get rid of the rust and make
>> a reasonably flat surface. To prevent permanently gluing blocks of
>> steel to my ribs I cut 3" squares of 4 mil poly to place over each
>> gusset. The epoxy is slippery enough that I just tugged this way and
>> that on the weighted piece of poly until the gusset was just where I
>> wanted it.
>>
>> The final two shots are my approach to blocking at the trailing edge
>> and around the front spar. As mentioned on the 'can of worms' thread,
>> the Riblett section is thicker than the original Piet section. I've
>> decided size the spars per the plans and use spacer's for the
>> difference. The rear spar sits directly on the bottom capstrip, and
>> there's a small space between the top of the spar and the upper strip.
>> The airfoil section at the front spar location is significantly
>> thicker on the Riblett, and most of the extra is below the chord line.
>> I've sized a block to fit under the spar. There will be just a small
>> triangular space above the spar. I'll fill above both spars with
>> wedges when I fit the ribs on to the spars. These pictures were taken
>> with the first side glued up and the rib flipped over and sitting in a
>> simple jig to hold it securely for gluing the second side. I've also
>> inserted a wedge at the trailing edge to make that a secure joint.
>>
>> --Ken<1st Rib-0003-20090705.jpg><1st Rib-0005-20090705.jpg><1st
>> Rib-0006-20090705.jpg><1st Rib-0008-20090706.jpg><1st
>> Rib-0009-20090706.jpg>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering |
Well, 3/4" seems pretty small for a cantilevered axle that will be
loaded as you say.
That isn't to say that the axles cannot handle the load.
BUT... it all depends on a few things:
1. The material the axle is made of. (higher strength materials can
carry a higher load - heat treatment can be used to increase strength of
some materials as well)
2. The configuration of the gear. (how far out on the axle the wheel
is situated - the closer to the axle mounting point, the higher load it
will be able to carry, due to smaller bending moment)
3. The WIDTH of the wheel. (the narrower the wheel, the less bending
moment will be imposed on the axle)
All other things being equal, increasing the axle diameter from solid
5/8" to solid 3/4" will result in a strength increase of 44%. Moving up
to solid 7/8" diameter will practically double the strength of the 5/8"
diameter.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Tunnicliffe
Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 8:29 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol
Gathering
Hi, my 1050 lb gross Jodel D18 has 3/4" axles that have survived my
occasional heavy landings without bending. However it does have
relatively small diameter 5.00 x 5 tyres.
Regards Mike T.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: AIrfoil can of worms? |
H. Riblett's Notes to Me 12/27/91. Ref: GA 3OU-612.
Cord, no flaps, 15%,
CoG-28% , Center Line of pressure-18". Max, 30%, 16"=24".
I can bring much of his notes and calculations to Brodhead for all to ponder, and
copy if you have a copier available.
Much of his stuff also covers the GA3OU-613.5, And others.
Foe those of you that like to crunch numbers He sent me a basket full.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251926#251926
Message 10
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I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower
fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs that
are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against
the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some
photos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs are
there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.
The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the
original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears
that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, but
actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves
of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it really
necessary?
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
Thanks,
Rick Schreiber
Message 11
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| Subject: | Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering |
Valid points, Hans.
My example of one wheel being subjected to 4-5000 lbs was perhaps a bit
"extreme".
The point I was trying to make was that if an axle is rated for 660 lbs
(each), and the plane weighs 1200 lbs, the axles would be close to their
rated strength, just sitting on the ground, which hardly seems
sufficient. Just taxiing over some bumps could exceed the rated
strength, as would some rough landings, I'm sure. We do not know whether
this "rated strength" includes a reasonable factor of safety (one would
hope so).
I don't know the specifics of the Matco axles, but they are likely heat
treated for added strength.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol
Gathering
I use 3/4" Matco axles (4140) with 6" Matco wheels on my Pietenpol
successfully.
Had some rough landings, no bending (so far)
Please note during most "hard" landings (with forward speed) a lot of
weight is still carried by the wing.
A "hard" landing without forward speed is a......not something you walk
away from.
Only at stand still you will see full load on the wheel, this is the
"static load"
The dynamic load or kinematic load of these wheels is usually much
higher, on the 6" Matco it is 2000 Lbs (per wheel)
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX15KV
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Rib construction photos |
I think each of us build these things slightly different. It is always interesting
to inspect other peoples process or technique. When I see some sort of difference
it makes me say, "wow, that's a cool way to do that"... and I often
wonder, "did I do that right?" I may post a few pics of mine later just to get
some eyeballs on them. I'm nearly 100% certain that mine are just fine. They
may not be just like others, but they were built to the plans and should work
fine.
I was sanding several of my ribs last night in preparation for urethane coating
when I started to notice that each one is a separate work of art. I cut the
gussets in batches, and they were all built in the same jig... so they are nearly
identical... but to the builder there are noticeable characteristics that
start to become more evident after handling a part so many times.
Great looking work Ken!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251937#251937
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| Subject: | Re: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering |
Bill,
I admit that my Pietenpol has been self certified to gross weight of 1150 Lbs
Tailwheel taking care of some of that, I stay well clear of the static load number
Based on the Matco published dynamic load and the static load I would guess their
safety design?factor is well over 3.
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 10:11 am
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering
Valid points, Hans.
?
My example of one wheel being subjected to 4-5000 lbs was perhaps a bit "extreme".
The point I was trying to make was that if an axle is rated for 660 lbs (each),
and the plane weighs 1200 lbs, the axles would be close to their rated strength,
just sitting on the ground, which hardly seems sufficient. Just taxiing over
some bumps could exceed the rated strength, as would some rough landings, I'm
sure. We do not know whether this "rated strength" includes a reasonable factor
of safety (one would hope so).
I don't know the specifics of the Matco axles, but they are likely heat treated
for added strength.
?
Bill C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 9:34 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Skinny axles WAS Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering
I use 3/4" Matco axles (4140) with 6" Matco wheels on my Pietenpol successfully.
Had some rough landings, no bending (so far)
Please note during most "hard" landings (with forward speed) a lot of weight is
still carried by the wing.
A "hard" landing without forward speed is a......not something you walk away from.
Only at stand still you will see full load on the wheel, this is the "static load"
The dynamic load or kinematic load of these wheels is usually much higher, on the
6" Matco it is 2000 Lbs (per wheel)
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX15KV
?
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead visit - help camping?? |
Thanks for bringing that up, Ryan. I don't know anything current about fuel
at Brodhead.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit - help camping??
>
> Dick,
>
> You mentioned planes making fuel stops on the way to OSH; do we know for
> sure that there is or will be fuel this year at Brodhead? I ask because
> the last I heard was from a friend that volunteered at the pancake
> breakfast towards the latter part of May, and he made a comment in an
> email about trying to do Young Eagles at the event with no fuel on the
> field. The last mention on the 431 website was of fencing being installed
> in May that brings things closer to operational status, but no mention of
> when or if they will actually be back up. I know that was over a month
> ago, but it may be worth confirming if they will actually have the new
> tanks running in time. Anyone else know any more current news?
>
> Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:29 PM, "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Reply for Lorin and Steve Sadler
>> There is camping on the field at Brodhead. There is plenty of camping
>> space. No electrical hookups or waste dumps. There are are showers
>> available and some food service. The walk into town is short to
>> McDonalds, Subway and other places. There is a grocery store and
>> hardware store in town. Brodhead is a very small town and the airport
>> is to the south of the main hwy just west of the McDonalds. This is an
>> informal event, they sell buttons, $5, to help with expenses. There is
>> also a Hatz bi plane flying on the other end of the field. Also there
>> are some mighty nice planes making fuel stops on the way to OSH.
>> Dick N.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:08 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit - help camping??
>>
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> I'm heading to Brodhead this year for the first time. I've volunteered
>>> to help haul camping gear and fuel to Oshkosh for those flying over to
>>> Oshkosh en-mass. I'll be bringing up my enclosed 16' toy hauler for
>>> this.
>>> Question for you - where is a good place to camp at nearby where I can
>>> grab a shower? I don't want to be too far away as loading the trailer
>>> would otherwise be painful.
>>>
>>> Lorin Miller
>>>
>>> lorin.miller@emerson.com
>>> 641-485-0840
>>> Sonex/Waiex ~80% done
>>> Piet next up
>>> Colo, Iowa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251803#251803
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
Alright John... let's not get Ken started on the wrong foot... errr, wing... whatever.
Some of our wives actually LIKE our airplanes. Mine is genuinely looking
forward to Brodhead. She also wants to help, specifically on the engine
rebuild, and is looking forward to a ride one day.
I know it's hard to believe... but I'm sure there are others out there. Maybe
mine will grow tired of the idea at some point, but she was on board at the beginning
and I'll hold her to it if necessary. So far, she's enjoying the adventure
too. Hamburgers, drawings, beer, tools, airplanes, hamburgers, sawdust,
beer, fly-ins, hamburgers, beer, airplane rides, pancakes, airports, hot dogs,
beer... what's not to like?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251943#251943
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
Did you say beer?
John
------Original Message------
From: Mark Chunard
Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
Sent: Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New builder: An Introduction
Alright John... let's not get Ken started on the wrong foot... errr, wing... whatever.
Some of our wives actually LIKE our airplanes. Mine is genuinely looking
forward to Brodhead. She also wants to help, specifically on the engine
rebuild, and is looking forward to a ride one day.
I know it's hard to believe... but I'm sure there are others out there. Maybe
mine will grow tired of the idea at some point, but she was on board at the beginning
and I'll hold her to it if necessary. So far, she's enjoying the adventure
too. Hamburgers, drawings, beer, tools, airplanes, hamburgers, sawdust,
beer, fly-ins, hamburgers, beer, airplane rides, pancakes, airports, hot dogs,
beer... what's not to like?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251943#251943
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 17
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I can't believe the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up
making them three times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of t
he motor without putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the
wood so the tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together
because I didn't want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got s
o much weld shrinkage that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without grin
ding away a bunch of wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next set
one gauge heavier and longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron and
bent the tabs but didn't put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough room
to get sheet metal firewall material between the motor mount and the brack
et so I made another set with 1/4" longer motor mount tabs. I'm not saying
my way is the best way I'm just trying to point out some of the pitfalls to
look out for and maybe save you some time. Ed G.
From: lmforge@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to t
he lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans=2C Bernard shows two sma
ll tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs th
at rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structu
rally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there=2C som
e where the tabs are there=2C but butt welded instead of screwed into the l
ongeron as Bernard shows.
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cros
s bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longero
n. On the original plans=2C Bernard must have used wood screws to attach th
e tabs. It appears that on the original=2C these tabs did not add anything
structurally=2C but actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding
the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs would
be better=2C but is it really necessary?
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
Thanks=2C
Rick Schreiber
_________________________________________________________________
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=92s right for you.
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: AIrfoil can of worms? |
Mr lowell, I appreciate the material sent but I'm a bit slow. Could you
explain a little more in detail those numbers and %s.
Thank you
Corky
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
yExcfooterNO62)
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe |
Here's photo of Brodhead looking north. During the Pietenpol event
only the 09-27 runway is open. That's the tan line just above the
upper group of parked planes. There are two other runways which are
closed ( the big X pattern), This pic was taken during the annual
Midwest Antique Airplane Fly-in. Camping is long that clump of tree
on the left and that area on th right close to the road where you see
the group of buildings. All the buiildings in the center are hangars.
All the ground activities tke place in that area of buildings along
the road on the right.
The city of Brodhead can be seen just above the horizontal strut of
Bill Rewey's Pietenpol.
Jul 7 2009, at 12:14 AM, Mike Simmons wrote:
> >
>
> I am planning to make it to my first Brodhead reunion fairly late
> Friday night/Sat. morning. From searching the archives, sounds like
> it's OK to just find a spot to pitch your tent amongst the others
> and find the bucket for a donation. Is this still true? Is there any
> insight as to where to park or are the instructions pretty clear
> once you get there? Any advice on what to do from some of those
> reunion veterans out there would be much appreciated
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
Bill Rewey has a widely known reputation for giving rides to wives of
Piet builders.
At the end of their flight, with a wide grin on their faces, the
common first comment they make is, "When are you going to finish
yours, Dear?" So look for Bill's "Navy" Piet.
On Jul 7, 2009, at 10:59 AM, K5YAC wrote:
>
> Alright John... let's not get Ken started on the wrong foot... errr,
> wing... whatever. Some of our wives actually LIKE our airplanes.
> Mine is genuinely looking forward to Brodhead. She also wants to
> help, specifically on the engine rebuild, and is looking forward to
> a ride one day.
>
> I know it's hard to believe... but I'm sure there are others out
> there. Maybe mine will grow tired of the idea at some point, but
> she was on board at the beginning and I'll hold her to it if
> necessary. So far, she's enjoying the adventure too. Hamburgers,
> drawings, beer, tools, airplanes, hamburgers, sawdust, beer, fly-
> ins, hamburgers, beer, airplane rides, pancakes, airports, hot dogs,
> beer... what's not to like?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251943#251943
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: motor mounts |
Rick,
I would and did use the tabs, but did not use the screws through them.
These bottom fittings are almost always in compression, in other words; the weight
of the Engine is pushing it against the Firewall.
The tabs take a lot of?load away from the cross bolts, I recommend you leave them
in place but you can omit the screws.
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX15KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 9:47 am
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower
fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs that
are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against
the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some
photos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs are
there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.
?
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.
The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the
original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears
that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, but
actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves
of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it really
necessary?
?
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
?
Thanks,
?
Rick Schreiber
?
?
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
"I knew she wasn't worth top billing."
Will she wear the Opera Singer's costume and change her name to
"MADAME JESSIE LUND?"
Do Not archive this idiot.
"idiocy is the new smartness"
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Jul 7, 2009, at 11:02 AM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote:
>
> Did you say beer?
>
> John
> ------Original Message------
> From: Mark Chunard
> Sender: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> To: Pietenpol builders Board
> ReplyTo: Pietenpol builders Board
> Sent: Jul 7, 2009 11:59 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New builder: An Introduction
>
>
> Alright John... let's not get Ken started on the wrong foot... errr,
> wing... whatever. Some of our wives actually LIKE our airplanes.
> Mine is genuinely looking forward to Brodhead. She also wants to
> help, specifically on the engine rebuild, and is looking forward to
> a ride one day.
>
> I know it's hard to believe... but I'm sure there are others out
> there. Maybe mine will grow tired of the idea at some point, but
> she was on board at the beginning and I'll hold her to it if
> necessary. So far, she's enjoying the adventure too. Hamburgers,
> drawings, beer, tools, airplanes, hamburgers, sawdust, beer, fly-
> ins, hamburgers, beer, airplane rides, pancakes, airports, hot dogs,
> beer... what's not to like?
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251943#251943
>
>
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Rib construction photos |
Hey Ken,
This might have been covered previously, so my apologies if so...
where'd you get the 612 rib plans? I don't trust that I drew mine
structurally sound as it simply copied the pattern from the piet rib and
made the parts bigger to fit the outline of the 612... Looks like yours has
some different geometry. Nice jig BTW...
Mark
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 6:58 AM, Ken Howe <ken@cooper-mtn.com> wrote:
>
> Yes, I've laid out my spars perpendicular to the chord line. I looked at
> setting them relative to a base line drawn tangent to the lowest points fore
> and aft, but it's only a couple degrees difference if you look at the
> drawing the Mark posted. I'll adjust the strut lengths to set the angle of
> incidence.
>
> --Ken
>
>
> Kip and Beth Gardner wrote:
>
>> kipandbeth@earthlink.net>
>>
>> Ken,
>>
>> Nice pictures of your rib setup.
>>
>> Your comments raised one question about the Riblett airfoil that I had not
>> yet been able to ask that maybe you or Mr. Lowell could address.
>>
>> Mark Roberts mentioned a related issue in one of his posts.
>>
>> I see that you are setting your ribs relative to the chord line. This
>> makes sense to me - if I understand things correctly, this sets the ribs at
>> zero incidence relative to the spars, ands any change in incidence would
>> then be set by adjusting the struts. Are you also then setting your spars
>> at 90 degrees to the chord line? Again, I assume you would because that
>> would make the most sense.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Kip Gardner
>>
>>
>> On Jul 7, 2009, at 4:56 AM, Ken Howe wrote:
>>
>> As promised, here's a few pictures of my rib building. First of all, I
>>> decided not use use staples or nails for gluing the gussets. Instead I'm
>>> simply using a steel weight to apply the minimum pressure that System Three
>>> says to use with T-88. The weights came from a local scrap yard - old bolts
>>> and sawed up chunks of a 1 3/16" rod. I ran then over a 50 grit belt on my
>>> sander to get rid of the rust and make a reasonably flat surface. To prevent
>>> permanently gluing blocks of steel to my ribs I cut 3" squares of 4 mil poly
>>> to place over each gusset. The epoxy is slippery enough that I just tugged
>>> this way and that on the weighted piece of poly until the gusset was just
>>> where I wanted it.
>>>
>>> The final two shots are my approach to blocking at the trailing edge and
>>> around the front spar. As mentioned on the 'can of worms' thread, the
>>> Riblett section is thicker than the original Piet section. I've decided size
>>> the spars per the plans and use spacer's for the difference. The rear spar
>>> sits directly on the bottom capstrip, and there's a small space between the
>>> top of the spar and the upper strip. The airfoil section at the front spar
>>> location is significantly thicker on the Riblett, and most of the extra is
>>> below the chord line. I've sized a block to fit under the spar. There will
>>> be just a small triangular space above the spar. I'll fill above both spars
>>> with wedges when I fit the ribs on to the spars. These pictures were taken
>>> with the first side glued up and the rib flipped over and sitting in a
>>> simple jig to hold it securely for gluing the second side. I've also
>>> inserted a wedge at the trailing edge to make that a secure joint.
>>>
>>> --Ken<1st Rib-0003-20090705.jpg><1st Rib-0005-20090705.jpg><1st
>>> Rib-0006-20090705.jpg><1st Rib-0008-20090706.jpg><1st Rib-0009-20090706.jpg>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 24
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| Subject: | A Little Off Topic |
Does anyone's field look like this anymore (see pic - July 1955 Experimenter)?
Just wondering... ours doesn't. Our local EAA chapter used to have a bar and
everything... I've seen some of the old pictures... they used to unwind just
fine in days past. Now the bar is stashed in the far corner of the hanger with
boxes piled all over it and the liquor cabinet has been reduced to the back
of a small kitchen cabinet, which is probably several years old.
I'm proud to say that our chapter isn't just a social club... there are a lot of
intelligent and experienced guys there and they are all very friendly. Many
projects are being worked on and talked about, so I can understand that maybe
we as builders, pilots, etc., are just focused on the task. I'm not trying to
promote irresponsibility, but is it taboo nowadays? Just gone are the days?
I went to our picnic on the field several weeks ago and strolled up with my frosty
mug (I keep a cold keg on tap in the hangar)... I felt a little out of place
as no one else had a cold can or bottle on a beautiful sunny day. I was a
little surprised. Is it out of place today? I didn't get any dirty looks or
rude comments or anything... but I'll probably ask a couple of club members if
that stuff is out of sorts or what? What happened?
Just wondering how it is elsewhere.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251954#251954
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/experimenter_185.jpg
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: A Little Off Topic |
Are you coming to Brodhead? I'll save a cold Liney Bock for you.
--------
PAPA MIKE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251961#251961
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| Subject: | Re: A Little Off Topic |
Ha ha! Yes, I am making my first trip to Brodhead this year. I'll be looking
for you Mike.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251962#251962
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
Amsafetyc wrote:
> Did you say beer?
>
> John
> ---
>
>
> K5YAC says
>
> and hamburgers!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251964#251964
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| Subject: | Re: New builder: An Introduction |
Why will her clothes fly off? mine don't fly off when I am up there.
Definitely not worth archiving
John
**************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
(http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: A Little Off Topic |
You got no negative comments form me, the frosty cold was the best.
Thanks again
John
**************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
(http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)
Message 30
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Ed and Hans:
I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been troubling
me is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax insulation
behind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat compressible, so my
thinking was that I would not get any advantage from the tabs in compression.
I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans 0.075" to 0.09".
My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing could cause
the tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seems to me that
the thinner gage mounts with the tabs held by wood screws, as on the original
plans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded tabs.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
Sent: 7/7/2009 11:15:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I can't believe the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up making
them three times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of the motor
without putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the wood so the
tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together because I didn't
want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got so much weld shrinkage
that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without grinding away a bunch of
wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next set one gauge heavier and
longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron and bent the tabs but didn't
put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough room to get sheet metal firewall
material between the motor mount and the bracket so I made another set with 1/4"
longer motor mount tabs. I'm not saying my way is the best way I'm just trying
to point out some of the pitfalls to look out for and maybe save you some
time. Ed G.
From: lmforge@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower
fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs that
are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against
the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some
photos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs are
there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.
The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longeron. On the
original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It appears
that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, but
actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves
of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it really
necessary?
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
Thanks,
Rick Schreiber
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you.
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| Subject: | Re: A Little Off Topic |
Nope, no complaints from you, John.
When are you coming back to the Port of Catoosa? Jim Markle says he is planning
to make our meeting on the 20th. Any chance you'll be in town?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251973#251973
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| Subject: | Re: A Little Off Topic |
Mark,
Here are some lessons to live by:
Lesson one: Never believe Markle
Lesson two Markle cannot be believed
Lesson three: Follow lessons one and two, then repeat, one and two one two
one tw........... and so on
Actually noting on the schedule yet, I expect to do a return trip during
the fall maybe October, not certain though it really depends on the local
plant and how much they get done. I am hoping to wrap up Catoosa by then.
The good news is with the typical Markle commitment, more beer for me
John
Do not archive
**************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals.
(http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: motor mounts |
Rick,
The tabs will need to go under the Stainless firewall and the Fiberfrax,
that's how I did it.
The plans do not call for a Stainless =C2-firewall as there simply was
no FAA requirement back then.
I would make the fitting 1/4" longer, from the tab forward, to compensate
for the Stainless firewall and the Fiberfrax
Regards
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX14KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:10 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Ed and Hans:
=C2-
I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been tr
oubling me is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax in
sulation behind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat compre
ssible, so my thinking was that I would not get any advantage from the tab
s in compression. I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans 0.
075" to 0.09".
=C2-
My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing cou
ld cause the tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seem
s to me that the thinner gage mounts with the tabs held by wood screws, as
on the original plans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded
tabs.
=C2-
Rick Schreiber
=C2-
=C2-
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
Sent: 7/7/2009 11:15:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I can't believe
the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up making them thr
ee times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of the motor witho
ut putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the wood so the
tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together because I
didn't want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got so much
weld shrinkage that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without grinding
away a bunch of wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next set on
e gauge heavier and longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron and
bent the tabs but didn't put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough roo
m to get=C2-sheet metal firewall material between the motor mount and th
e bracket so I made another set with 1/4" longer motor mount tabs. I'm not
saying my way is the best way I'm just trying to point out some of the pi
tfalls to look out for and maybe save you some time.=C2- Ed G.
=C2-
From: lmforge@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to
the lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two sm
all tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs
that rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they str
ucturally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there,
some where the tabs are there, but butt welde
d instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.
=C2-
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cro
ss bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the longe
ron. On the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach
the tabs. It appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anythin
g structurally, but actually weakened the structure. I realize that weldin
g the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs wou
ld be better, but is it really necessary?
=C2-
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
=C2-
Thanks,
=C2-
Rick Schreiber
=C2-
=C2-
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that=99s right for you.
========================
===========
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-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,
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Message 34
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Rick,
If a hard landing will cause the tabs to bend, you've got bigger worries
to concern yourself with. Namely, that the cross bolts thru your
longerons have either broken or elongated the holes in the wood,
allowing the brackets to move relative to the wood. Additionally, if the
tabs bend before the wood crushes, I'll be amazed. It will take a
considerable force to un-bend a short little tab like that. I don't
think there's any real need to use the wood screws (useless) or to weld
the tabs together (not necessary).
99.4% of the time, the plane will be at rest, on the ground. The other
0.6% of the time, the plane will be flying. When the plane is flying,
the forces acting on the brackets will be pulling it forward, and the
tabs will be of no real use. When the plane is sitting on the ground,
the weight of the engine (gravity) will cause the upper mounts to be
pulled forward, and the bottom mounts to be pushed backwards - this is
where the tabs will provide a bit of resistance against the wood, and
relieve a bit of the load on the lower bolts.
By beefing up the thickness of the mounts, you have made them 20%
stronger (and 20% heavier).
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Ed and Hans:
I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been
troubling me is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of
Fiberfrax insulation behind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably
somewhat compressible, so my thinking was that I would not get any
advantage from the tabs in compression. I have also beefed up the mounts
going from the plans 0.075" to 0.09".
My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing
could cause the tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It
seems to me that the thinner gage mounts with the tabs held by wood
screws, as on the original plans, would be weaker than heaver mounts
with non welded tabs.
Rick Schreiber
Message 35
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I got mine from Jamestown as well. The T-88 works well with System 3's Clear Coat
epoxy, might try it if you get a chance. I was reading a manual on putting
together an Acroduster and it had a whole section on T-88/Clear Coat, and I used
it on all my glue surfaces and the wood leading edge, its very nice. Their
was someone selling it 3 liters for $99, it mixes 2 to 1 unlike the 50/50 mix
of T-88, but I believe the $99 package would be enough to do all your wood. It
is very easy to tell where you have been with it, which was not the case with
some of the other varnish products I tried. Like Minwax Polycrylic ,it dries
and protects the wood, but it can be really hard to tell what has been covered
and what has not, especially on second or third coats.
jim
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251983#251983
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| Subject: | Re: A Little Off Topic |
A cold beer? I'll be there! At least I HOPE so! John's right, sometimes my schedule
works out, sometimes it doesn't. This working for a living sure can get
in the way of what's REALLY important! and wife, kids, farm, tractor(s),
etc, etc, etc....... :-)
They just booked my flight for the Brodhead weekend so at least "Saturday at Brodhead"
will happen for me! I can hardly wait.
Jim "beer me" Markle
-----Original Message-----
>From: K5YAC <hangar10@cox.net>
>Sent: Jul 7, 2009 1:02 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: A Little Off Topic
>
>
>Nope, no complaints from you, John.
>
>When are you coming back to the Port of Catoosa? Jim Markle says he is planning
to make our meeting on the 20th. Any chance you'll be in town?
>
>--------
>Mark - working on wings
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251973#251973
>
>
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I buy it at Woodcraft when I run out and don't feel like waiting for an order to
arrive. Don't know if you have those where you are. Costs about the same as
Aircraft Spruce with the added shipping.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251993#251993
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| Subject: | couple more Brodhead pics |
On Ju
l 7, 2009, at 12:14 AM, Mike Simmons wrote:
> >
>
> I am planning to make it to my first Brodhead reunion fairly late
> Friday night/Sat. morning. From searching the archives, sounds like
> it's OK to just find a spot to pitch your tent amongst the others
> and find the bucket for a donation. Is this still true? Is there any
> insight as to where to park or are the instructions pretty clear
> once you get there? Any advice on what to do from some of those
> reunion veterans out there would be much appreciated
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe |
It'd be nice if the Pietenpol Fly-in drew that many planes, but it doesn't. I
think that shot is of the GrassRoots Fly-in held in September.
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252000#252000
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| Subject: | Re: couple more Brodhead pics |
Now that looks more like it! Those even look like Pietenpols down there. Nice
pics!
Don Emch
NX899DE
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252001#252001
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For New Englanders, Boulter also has aircraft grade mil spec ply and a basement
full of Sitka Spruce planks that you can have them grade (yes, they know the
specs for aircraft grading, I quizzed him) and you get it a little cheaper if
you want to dig through the piles and select your own pieces. They are a small
storefront but seem to have a lot of interconnected buildings and basements
in Somerville, MA, just outside of Boston. I have purchased both 1/8" Finnish
Birch and Okume from them and they are very reasonable. ...although I will
probably buy spars from Aircraft Spruce :( or Wicks.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252002#252002
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| Subject: | Re: Looking for someone. |
That is definitely Walt Evans' Piet. Got my first Piet ride in that plane and
will never forget it. It's a work of art.
--------
Glenn Thomas
N?????
http://www.flyingwood.com
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252003#252003
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Bill, Ed and Hans:
Thanks for the replies. I plan on putting the tabs in, with no screws or welding.
Hans that is a good idea about just putting the tabs against the wood firewall
with the fiberfrax and stainless firewall on top.
I just spent the last 3 hours laying out, cutting and drilling the 4 top motor
mounts. Why is it that such a few small fittings always seems to take much longer
to make than you expect.! Its a nice day here in NW Indiana. I'm going to
the airport and shoot some landings and then drink a couple of cold ones with
the rest of the hanger rats.
Thanks again for the help. I'm sure its saved me a lot of grief.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Church
Sent: 7/7/2009 1:43:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Rick,
If a hard landing will cause the tabs to bend, you've got bigger worries to concern
yourself with. Namely, that the cross bolts thru your longerons have either
broken or elongated the holes in the wood, allowing the brackets to move relative
to the wood. Additionally, if the tabs bend before the wood crushes, I'll
be amazed. It will take a considerable force to un-bend a short little tab
like that. I don't think there's any real need to use the wood screws (useless)
or to weld the tabs together (not necessary).
99.4% of the time, the plane will be at rest, on the ground. The other 0.6% of
the time, the plane will be flying. When the plane is flying, the forces acting
on the brackets will be pulling it forward, and the tabs will be of no real
use. When the plane is sitting on the ground, the weight of the engine (gravity)
will cause the upper mounts to be pulled forward, and the bottom mounts to
be pushed backwards - this is where the tabs will provide a bit of resistance
against the wood, and relieve a bit of the load on the lower bolts.
By beefing up the thickness of the mounts, you have made them 20% stronger (and
20% heavier).
Bill C.
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Schreiber
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 1:10 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Ed and Hans:
I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been troubling
me is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax insulation
behind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat compressible, so my
thinking was that I would not get any advantage from the tabs in compression.
I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans 0.075" to 0.09".
My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing could cause
the tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seems to me that
the thinner gage mounts with the tabs held by wood screws, as on the original
plans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded tabs.
Rick Schreiber
Message 44
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| Subject: | couple more Brodhead pics |
That looks better than the last picture that was sent out. I vote for
Brodhead with grass...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roman Bukolt
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 12:47 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: couple more Brodhead pics
On Ju
Message 45
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http://hobby.idnes.cz/ultralight-se-da-postavit-i-v-podkrovi-domku-potrebujete-pul-milionu-a-6-let-1br-/hobby-dilna.asp?c-90608_205735_hobby-dilna_bma
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252019#252019
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| Subject: | Re: AIrfoil can of worms? |
Someone should record it.
tw
On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:54 AM, johnwoods@westnet.com.au wrote:
> ...
> I wish I could be at Brodhead to hear Mr Pieti Lowell's forum on
> the 612's performance.
> ...
Message 47
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| Subject: | Brodhead visit - help camping?? |
If someone could please find out the fuel situation at Brodhead and post it
to the list, that would be helpful - it will make some difference to me, as
to whether I stop at Poplar Grove for fuel before landing at Brodhead.
Last year I went to Monroe for fuel. Not too bad and not too far away, but
it is much simpler if they have fuel at Brodhead.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick N.
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit - help camping??
Thanks for bringing that up, Ryan. I don't know anything current about fuel
at Brodhead.
Dick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Mueller" <rmueller23@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 6:43 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit - help camping??
>
> Dick,
>
> You mentioned planes making fuel stops on the way to OSH; do we know for
> sure that there is or will be fuel this year at Brodhead? I ask because
> the last I heard was from a friend that volunteered at the pancake
> breakfast towards the latter part of May, and he made a comment in an
> email about trying to do Young Eagles at the event with no fuel on the
> field. The last mention on the 431 website was of fencing being installed
> in May that brings things closer to operational status, but no mention of
> when or if they will actually be back up. I know that was over a month
> ago, but it may be worth confirming if they will actually have the new
> tanks running in time. Anyone else know any more current news?
>
> Ryan
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 6, 2009, at 9:29 PM, "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net> wrote:
>
>> >
>>
>> Reply for Lorin and Steve Sadler
>> There is camping on the field at Brodhead. There is plenty of camping
>> space. No electrical hookups or waste dumps. There are are showers
>> available and some food service. The walk into town is short to
>> McDonalds, Subway and other places. There is a grocery store and
>> hardware store in town. Brodhead is a very small town and the airport
>> is to the south of the main hwy just west of the McDonalds. This is an
>> informal event, they sell buttons, $5, to help with expenses. There is
>> also a Hatz bi plane flying on the other end of the field. Also there
>> are some mighty nice planes making fuel stops on the way to OSH.
>> Dick N.
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "ldmill" <lorin.miller@emerson.com>
>> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Monday, July 06, 2009 1:08 PM
>> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead visit - help camping??
>>
>>
>>> >
>>>
>>> Folks,
>>> I'm heading to Brodhead this year for the first time. I've volunteered
>>> to help haul camping gear and fuel to Oshkosh for those flying over to
>>> Oshkosh en-mass. I'll be bringing up my enclosed 16' toy hauler for
>>> this.
>>> Question for you - where is a good place to camp at nearby where I can
>>> grab a shower? I don't want to be too far away as loading the trailer
>>> would otherwise be painful.
>>>
>>> Lorin Miller
>>>
>>> lorin.miller@emerson.com
>>> 641-485-0840
>>> Sonex/Waiex ~80% done
>>> Piet next up
>>> Colo, Iowa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Read this topic online here:
>>>
>>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=251803#251803
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
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Aside from the nice work, the best part of that was seeing it come out of
the 2nd story workshop!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Baldeagle
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 3:12 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Czech Piet
<baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
http://hobby.idnes.cz/ultralight-se-da-postavit-i-v-podkrovi-domku-potrebuje
te-pul-milionu-a-6-let-1br-/hobby-dilna.asp?c-90608_205735_hobby-dilna_bma
-
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252019#252019
Message 49
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There's no requirement now for a stainless steel firewall. Mine is
galvanized iron.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Rick,
The tabs will need to go under the Stainless firewall and the Fiberfrax,
that's how I did it.
The plans do not call for a Stainless firewall as there simply was no FAA
requirement back then.
I would make the fitting 1/4" longer, from the tab forward, to compensate
for the Stainless firewall and the Fiberfrax
Regards
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX14KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:10 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Ed and Hans:
I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been
troubling me is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax
insulation behind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat
compressible, so my thinking was that I would not get any advantage from the
tabs in compression. I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans
0.075" to 0.09".
My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing could
cause the tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seems to
me that the thinner gage mounts wit h the tabs held by wood screws, as on
the original plans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded tabs.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G. <mailto:flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
Sent: 7/7/2009 11:15:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I can't believe the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up
making them three times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of
the motor without putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the
wood so the tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together
because I didn't want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got so
much weld shrinkage that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without
grinding away a bunch of wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next
set one gauge heavier and longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron
and bent the tabs but didn't put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough
room to get sheet metal firewall material between the motor mount and the
bracket so I made another set with 1/4" longer motor mount tabs. I'm not
saying my way is the best way I'm just trying to point out some of the
pitfalls to look out for and maybe save you some time. Ed G.
_____
From: lmforge@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to
the lower fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small
tabs that are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that
rest against the firewall. My question is how necessary are they
structurally? I have some photos of finished Piets where they are not there,
some where the tabs are there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the
longeron as Bernard shows.
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross
bolt. The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the lo ngeron.
On the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the
tabs. It appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anything
structurally, but actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding
the left and right halves of the lower fittings together at the tabs would
be better, but is it really necessary?
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
Thanks,
Rick Schreiber
_____
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Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: AIrfoil can of worms? |
Sorry, it has taken me a few days to get through email trail. Did
someone record Mr. Lowell's presentation?
tw
On Jul 7, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Terry Williams wrote:
> Someone should record it.
>
> tw
>
> On Jul 5, 2009, at 5:54 AM, johnwoods@westnet.com.au wrote:
>
>> ...
>> I wish I could be at Brodhead to hear Mr Pieti Lowell's forum on
>> the 612's performance.
>> ...
>
>
Message 51
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That's neat.
my Czechoslovak is not to good (heck my English is marginal) but according
to this :
"historick kopie modelu GN1 Aircamper " we can make out that it is GN1
Michael in Maine where its raining again for a change....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
>
>
http://hobby.idnes.cz/ultralight-se-da-postavit-i-v-podkrovi-domku-potrebujete-pul-milionu-a-6-let-1br-/hobby-dilna.asp?c-90608_205735_hobby-dilna_bma
>
Message 52
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Dan,
Wow, what activity in the list !!!
Two days and dozens of entries.
Santiago talked me about his trip to Brodhead in the Aeronca and the strong
impression of the meeting there.
I have not even started the construction and hope to find there the
inspiration to start soon.
See you next Friday 24.
Juan GOYENI
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/AirVenture
Juan,
Good for you that you are able to attend the Pietenpol gathering this year.
We always welcome our South American friends. Last year we had Santiago
Morete, from Santa Rosa Argentina with us. He was able to get several rides
in Piets and other airplanes as well. Make sure and bring with you a
DETAILED list of supplies, hardware, etc. that you need for your project.
Virtually anything can be purchased at Oshkosh. Santiago was able to buy
hardware, control cable, headsets, seat belts etc. while he was there. I
will look forward to meeting you and your son Frederico.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: x GOYENI <goyeni@movinet.com.uy>
Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 4:56 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/AirVenture
Hello everybody,
Finally, I am going to Brodhead with my son Federico.
We are arriving at noon on Friday and stay there until Sunday.
I look forward to meet members of this list and enjoy the friendship and
camaraderie of these events.
Then, the entire week at AirVenture.
See you there.
Juan GOYENI
URUGUAY
Message 53
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Hey Gary: I know what you mean about the shot of it coming out of the 2nd
story window! Heck, I thought it was bad that my garage is smaller than I'd
like! I gots it easy!
Mark
On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net> wrote:
>
> That's neat.
>
> my Czechoslovak is not to good (heck my English is marginal) but accordin
g
> to this :
> "historick=E9 kopie modelu GN1 Aircamper " we can make out that it is GN1
>
> Michael in Maine where its raining again for a change....
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
> >
> >
>
> http://hobby.idnes.cz/ultralight-se-da-postavit-i-v-podkrovi-domku-potreb
ujete-pul-milionu-a-6-let-1br-/hobby-dilna.asp?c-90608_205735_hobby-dil
na_bma
> >
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
Message 54
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I just called brodhead airport manager about fuel availability. He said that
do not have fuel yet, so plan for it. Gardiner Mason
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
>
> Hey Gary: I know what you mean about the shot of it coming out of the 2nd
> story window! Heck, I thought it was bad that my garage is smaller than I'd
> like! I gots it easy!
>
> Mark
>
> On Tue, Jul 7, 2009 at 5:36 PM, Michael Silvius <silvius@gwi.net> wrote:
>
> >
> > That's neat.
> >
> > my Czechoslovak is not to good (heck my English is marginal) but according
> > to this :
> > "historick kopie modelu GN1 Aircamper " we can make out that it is GN1
> >
> > Michael in Maine where its raining again for a change....
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Baldeagle" <baldeagle27@earthlink.net>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> http://hobby.idnes.cz/ultralight-se-da-postavit-i-v-podkrovi-domku-potrebujete-p
> ul-milionu-a-6-let-1br-/hobby-dilna.asp?c-90608_205735_hobby-dilna_bma
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
Message 55
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Juan,
You'll find a world of helpful, friendly people at Brodhead. We always open
our arms and our hearts to international visitors and look forward to
meeting you there.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Raleigh, North Carolina
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of x GOYENI
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 8:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead
<goyeni@movinet.com.uy>
Dan,
Wow, what activity in the list !!!
Two days and dozens of entries.
Santiago talked me about his trip to Brodhead in the Aeronca and the strong
impression of the meeting there.
I have not even started the construction and hope to find there the
inspiration to start soon.
See you next Friday 24.
Juan GOYENI
----- Original Message -----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, July 05, 2009 8:39 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/AirVenture
Juan,
Good for you that you are able to attend the Pietenpol gathering this year.
We always welcome our South American friends. Last year we had Santiago
Morete, from Santa Rosa Argentina with us. He was able to get several rides
in Piets and other airplanes as well. Make sure and bring with you a
DETAILED list of supplies, hardware, etc. that you need for your project.
Virtually anything can be purchased at Oshkosh. Santiago was able to buy
hardware, control cable, headsets, seat belts etc. while he was there. I
will look forward to meeting you and your son Frederico.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
-----Original Message-----
From: x GOYENI <goyeni@movinet.com.uy>
Sent: Sat, Jul 4, 2009 4:56 pm
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Brodhead/AirVenture
Hello everybody,
Finally, I am going to Brodhead with my son Federico.
We are arriving at noon on Friday and stay there until Sunday.
I look forward to meet members of this list and enjoy the friendship and
camaraderie of these events.
Then, the entire week at AirVenture.
See you there.
Juan GOYENI
URUGUAY
Message 56
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe |
Yes it was the Grass Roots fly-in. I mentioned that in the email.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
do not archive
On Jul 7, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Don Emch wrote:
>
> It'd be nice if the Pietenpol Fly-in drew that many planes, but it
> doesn't. I think that shot is of the GrassRoots Fly-in held in
> September.
>
> Don Emch
> NX899DE
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252000#252000
>
>
Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead camping - reunion newbe |
Sorry about that Roman. If I would have actually 'read' the post I would have
seen that. Now let me see if I can get my foot out of my mouth!
Sorry about that!
Don
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=252059#252059
Message 58
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I'm using stainless since I have access to a free supply :>)
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Jack Phillips
Sent: 7/7/2009 6:06:44 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Theres no requirement now for a stainless steel firewall. Mine is galvanized iron.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of hvandervoo@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Rick,
The tabs will need to go under the Stainless firewall and the Fiberfrax, that's
how I did it.
The plans do not call for a Stainless firewall as there simply was no FAA requirement
back then.
I would make the fitting 1/4" longer, from the tab forward, to compensate for the
Stainless firewall and the Fiberfrax
Regards
Hans van der Voort
Pietenpol NX14KV
-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Schreiber <lmforge@earthlink.net>
Sent: Tue, Jul 7, 2009 12:10 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
Ed and Hans:
I agree that the tabs are only useful in compression, but what has been troubling
me is that I had planned on using a 1/8 inch sheet of Fiberfrax insulation
behind my SS firewall. The fiberfarax is probably somewhat compressible, so my
thinking was that I would not get any advantage from the tabs in compression.
I have also beefed up the mounts going from the plans 0.075" to 0.09".
My original worry was that if the tabs were not welded, a hard landing could cause
the tabs to bend and put undue strain on the cross bolts. It seems to me that
the thinner gage mounts wit h the tabs held by wood screws, as on the original
plans, would be weaker than heaver mounts with non welded tabs.
Rick Schreiber
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed G.
Sent: 7/7/2009 11:15:07 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I can't believe the time I spent on those lower mounts. I think I ended up making
them three times. The tabs are there to help support the weight of the motor
without putting all that shear/shock load on the bolts against the wood so the
tabs are a good thing. I origionally welded the tabs together because I didn't
want to drill all those screw holes in that area but got so much weld shrinkage
that they wouldn't fit over the fuselage without grinding away a bunch of
wood which I didn't want to do. So I made the next set one gauge heavier and
longer to get an extra bolt through the longeron and bent the tabs but didn't
put screws in them. Then there wasn't enough room to get sheet metal firewall
material between the motor mount and the bracket so I made another set with 1/4"
longer motor mount tabs. I'm not saying my way is the best way I'm just trying
to point out some of the pitfalls to look out for and maybe save you some
time. Ed G.
From: lmforge@earthlink.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: motor mounts
I have a question about the lower motor mount fittings that are bolted to the lower
fuselage longerons. On the original plans, Bernard shows two small tabs that
are bent at right angles to the fitting. These are the tabs that rest against
the firewall. My question is how necessary are they structurally? I have some
photos of finished Piets where they are not there, some where the tabs are
there, but butt welded instead of screwed into the longeron as Bernard shows.
If the upper tab is screwed in place. it will interfere with the upper cross bolt.
The lower tab screw will be very close to the bottom of the lo ngeron. On
the original plans, Bernard must have used wood screws to attach the tabs. It
appears that on the original, these tabs did not add anything structurally, but
actually weakened the structure. I realize that welding the left and right halves
of the lower fittings together at the tabs would be better, but is it really
necessary?
I have attached a drawing showing the fiiting.
Thanks,
Rick Schreiber
Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC thats right for you.
===================================
t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
========================
tp://forums.matronics.com
===================================
_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===================================
Stay cool with this summer's hottest movies. Moviefone brings you trailers, celebrities,
movie showtimes and tickets!
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: Brodhead Pietenpol Gathering |
NX92GB, has 6 inch azzuza wheels, and I think they are 3/4 axles, but not sure.
They are the standard 6 inch Azzua's so what ever axle they use thats what we
have. We have over 300 landings (a wild ass guess) and Knock ..knock, no problems
so far. I know I have made some less than perfect landings, and ploped
her on a few times, and not broke the axles. They are a fairly thick wall thickness
compared to cleveland style axles, I am guessing .090-.125 wall thickness.
Hope this helps!
Shad
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