Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Sat 08/08/09


Total Messages Posted: 25



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:55 AM - Re: Re: flying low over farm fields (TRichmo9@aol.com)
     2. 04:20 AM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Jack Phillips)
     3. 05:46 AM - viewing the posts (skellytown flyer)
     4. 06:34 AM - Re: wing question (Lagowski Morrow)
     5. 07:49 AM - landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
     6. 07:52 AM - Re: viewing the posts (Jim Markle)
     7. 07:57 AM - Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points (Pieti Lowell)
     8. 08:19 AM - 10 years ago, 1999: 70th Anniversary of the Pietenpol Air Camper (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
     9. 08:36 AM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points (Dick N.)
    10. 10:01 AM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Tim Willis)
    11. 10:17 AM - Re: viewing the posts (Will42)
    12. 01:37 PM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Mark Roberts)
    13. 03:24 PM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Ryan Mueller)
    14. 04:20 PM - I hope the list is dead tonight..... (Ryan Mueller)
    15. 05:26 PM - A65 to A75 swap (Oscar Zuniga)
    16. 05:51 PM - Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (helspersew@aol.com)
    17. 06:08 PM - Re: I hope the list is dead tonight..... (Gary Boothe)
    18. 06:11 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Gary Boothe)
    19. 06:29 PM - video of a gent who is 6' 3" tall getting into a Pietenpol  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    20. 06:29 PM - Milestone day in my Pietenpol build (Ben Charvet)
    21. 06:41 PM - Re: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    22. 06:42 PM - Re: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build (Jack Phillips)
    23. 06:50 PM - Re: I hope the list is dead tonight..... (Jack Phillips)
    24. 08:40 PM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Tim Willis)
    25. 08:55 PM - Re: A65 to A75 swap (Jeff Boatright)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:55:13 AM PST US
    From: TRichmo9@aol.com
    Subject: Re: flying low over farm fields
    jim you need any help a voice from the past tom


    Message 2


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    Time: 04:20:17 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: side door cut out for front seat
    She's not 6'2", but she's not 5'2" either . Karen is about 5' 9" tall. She doesn't seem to have any problem climbing into the front seat. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:46 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat Yeah, wow, she's 6'2"...? ;-) Matt At 02:33 PM 8/7/2009 Friday, you wrote: >Jack, > >You better re-read the last line of your previous post before your wife sees it :O) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:33 pm >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat > >Matt, > >Gary Price developed a door mod for the front seat some years ago, but few Piets use it. Basically, anyone too large to be able to climb into the front cockpit of a Piet is probably too heavy to carry anyway. Any door mod requires cutting the upper longeron and that is simply not a good idea, particularly in the area between the cabane struts (and the landing gear/lift strut fittings). Substantial beefing up of the remaining structure attempts to restore some of the strength lost by cutting the longeron, and succeeds in adding substantial weight. > >I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and I can make it into the front cockpit of my Piet with little trouble. My wife does it all the time. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP >Raleigh, NC > > >---------- >From: <mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>owner-pietenpol-list-serve r@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Keyes >Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:17 PM >To: <mailto:pietenpol-list@matronics.com>pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat > >I was surfing the net the other night during down time at work (don't tell my boss) and came across a video of a young gentleman trying to climb into the front seat. It did not look easy. Maybe I just missed it, but I don't recall seeing any Piets with a door cut out to make things easier. Has any one had luck with this? If so, what additional bracing is needed? How about steel fuseluges, are they more forgiving of such mods? Also, sorry I forgot which one it was, but one of the beautiful Corvair powered Piets had tabs on the bottom longeron, aft of the pilot seat... float attachments? Just a guess. > >Matt > > > > > > > > ><http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List>http://www.matronics.com /Navigator?Pietenpol-List > > >http://forums.matronics.com > > ><http://www.matronics.com/contribution>http://www.matronics.com/contributio n > > > >=================================== >t" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >=================================== >tp://forums.matronics.com >=================================== >_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution >=================================== > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:46:04 AM PST US
    Subject: viewing the posts
    From: "skellytown flyer" <rhano@att.net>
    is it just me or are others having trouble seeing the posts? some seem to be so wide I have to scroll way to the right to read all of a message and see the rest of the picture. is there a way to correct that or is it just because the large picture size causes it to run out? as you see I'm not computer literate.but have sure enjoyed the fine pictures and got some good ideas for how to enclose my cowl. I have finally gotten my air scoops done and ready to start that next. Raymond Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256628#256628


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:34:48 AM PST US
    From: "Lagowski Morrow" <jimdeb@charter.net>
    Subject: Re: wing question
    I did the same thing as Peter. looks good.--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter W Johnson" <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: wing question > <vk3eka@bigpond.net.au> > > Carson, > > I followed a line which was half of the height of the wing rib. Check out > http://www.cpc-world.com/images/IMG_0605_JPG.jpg > > It seemed to work out alright. > > Cheers > > Peter > Wonthaggi Australia > http://www.cpc-world.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of carson > Sent: Friday, 7 August 2009 10:47 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: wing question > > > Hi all > How much do I curve the wing tip bow? > Is it to the same curve as the top of the rib? > Carson > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 06:22:00


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:49:37 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points
    Lowell-- I thought somewhere in the front of Sport Aviation they have a legal advocacy group department that can help you thru such things as the FAA is trying to put you thru. My apologies for posting incorrect info about Kurt Shipman's Piet fittings-- they are in fact for floats. Mike C.


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:52:38 AM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: viewing the posts
    I also open some of these messages and have to scroll for some and not for others. I did a bit of reconfiguring on my email client (what I use to open/view emails) and the scrolling seems to have gone away....maybe you need to tweak the program setup a little....I don't know, but it's worth a try... And I agree, the pictures are great and I still marvel at what fantastic ideas show up here...except that sometimes I have to go change something that's already built because of a "new" way of doing something shows up in a picture....I've finally stopped that though and have decided to finish "as is" and modify later.... It will probably be a little over 100 degrees in NE Oklahoma today....I'll definitely need to open the doors and turn on the big fan! Trammeling wings and finishing lift strut fittings today.....JM -----Original Message----- >From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> >Sent: Aug 8, 2009 7:45 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: viewing the posts > > >is it just me or are others having trouble seeing the posts? some seem to be so wide I have to scroll way to the right to read all of a message and see the rest of the picture. is there a way to correct that or is it just because the large picture size causes it to run out? as you see I'm not computer literate.but have sure enjoyed the fine pictures and got some good ideas for how to enclose my cowl. I have finally gotten my air scoops done and ready to start that next. Raymond > > >Read this topic online here: > >http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256628#256628 > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:57:07 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points
    From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
    Thanks Mike, I am getting good support on this one, I will keep all posted,, as I know others might be in the same position. Pieti Lowell . . Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256645#256645


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:19:44 AM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: 10 years ago, 1999: 70th Anniversary of the Pietenpol
    Air Camper I know I've posted this before but Lowell Frank and Bill Rewey were with us when we flew SEVENTEEN Pietenpols from Hartford, WI into Oshkosh on Runway 18L. (the taxiway turned runway for the event) There was a southwest crosswind and a DC-3 tookoff from 18R and his propwash upset on of our group upon landing, damaging his airplane. I can't think of the gents name off hand but he was from MO. I don't recall the hubbub that ensued but know he ended up having to trailer his plane home. Something like this where they will dog a guy who is totally competent to belittle him to get some dual and a sign off in tailwheels after thousands of hours (in type even) is irritating when you KNOW that there are all kinds of accidents that go unreported--some I've seen at my home base where the airplane is quietly put away in the hangar. Some of those accidents should be investigated though because of incompetency or poor maintenance but the FAA can't differentiate I guess and have to put everyone thru the meat grinder if it be a whoopsie or your medical getting reinstated. Years ago a pair of guys from a nearby grass airport went up to the Lake Erie Islands, bought a case of wine and flew it back--drinking all the way. They overshot the runway in the Cessna Cardinal and went across a road, shearing off both wings between two trees. They got the airport Ford 8N out, dragged the mess back to the hangar and locked the doors. Those are the kinds of guys who need some wrist slaps.


    Message 9


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    Time: 08:36:46 AM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points
    Hi Lowell I was just ahead of you, landing at the same time and it could have just as easily been me on the side of the runway. I caught the same gust and thought I had broke a bungee as my wing tip was way down and I had every bit of rudder and aileron stuffed in to hold the wing down. Good luck with the feds. I still have your strobe. If you would send me your address off list, I'll mail it back. Dick N. horzpool@goldengate.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:56 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday & Kurt's attach points > <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com> > > Thanks Mike, > I am getting good support on this one, I will keep all posted,, as I know > others might be in the same position. > Pieti Lowell > . > > . > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256645#256645 > > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:01:59 AM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: side door cut out for front seat
    To door, or not to door... that is the question. Corky already had a well reinforced door cutout on his second Piet-- my current project. (Oscar's Piet was his first.) I am keeping the cutout and have fabbed a door. Concerned about hard landings and stress points right there, I added one more diagonal brace, as well. As Jack rightly says, no doubt you lose strength cutting the top longeron. You gain weight trying to get enough strength, not all of it, back. Those are good reasons not to do it. However, many of my likely future passengers, like myself, just don't bend that well anymore. For instance, my wife is only 5' 3" and under 100 pounds, but she is no longer flexible. [As an aside, I doubt, despite my best intentions, that she will ever fly in it. She doesn't like first class in a 747. Her loss. I am still hopeful.] I became somewhat convinced the door could be a good idea when my neighbor my same age, 67, at 6 feet and in good shape ( a runner), had some trouble getting into and out of the Piet here, even with the door cutout and a stepstool. There is just not a lot of room to put feet, trunk, shoulders, through various restrictions and into the right spaces. A few months back Oscar took a passenger of about 55 years age and 200 pounds. He was of average height, but I saw that he had a lot of trouble bending into the spaces, both getting in and out. Of course, even with the door cutout, I will be unlikely to carry someone my height, girth, and weight. It's a fact. In short, having a door is a choice with some possible future benefits but known immediate penalties. It also adds complexity and time to the build. Likely many who add the door, I have specific passengers in mind that I/they wish to fit. That's my case-- as I once told Chuck Gantzer, I am trying to make it easier for tall Nicole Kidman to get in ;) Seriously, on balance, if Corky had not already done a good job with the coutout, I likely would not have added a door. It's your choice. Tim in central TX >>>-----Original Message----- >>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >>Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:33 pm >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat >> >>Matt, >> >>Gary Price developed a door mod for the front seat some years ago, but few >Piets use it. Basically, anyone too large to be able to climb into the >front cockpit of a Piet is probably too heavy to carry anyway. Any door mod >requires cutting the upper longeron and that is simply not a good idea, >particularly in the area between the cabane struts (and the landing >gear/lift strut fittings). Substantial beefing up of the remaining >structure attempts to restore some of the strength lost by cutting the >longeron, and succeeds in adding substantial weight. >> >>I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and I can make it into the front cockpit of my Piet >with little trouble. My wife does it all the time. >> >>Jack Phillips >>NX899JP >>Raleigh, NC >>


    Message 11


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    Time: 10:17:11 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: viewing the posts
    From: "Will42" <will@cctc.net>
    I am having the same experience on some of the post; even those without pictures and under the same heading as those that display without scrolling. No e-mail involved here so I don't know how to remedy. I also have trouble with the search feature; have to continually do the search over to see additional posts. Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256663#256663


    Message 12


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    Time: 01:37:24 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: side door cut out for front seat
    From: Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com>
    Hey Guys, I know there is a set of plans (from Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works) published that I saw from Mike Groah for a door in the passenger side. I was under the belief it was engineered to be strong enough for the plane. Mark On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote: > timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > To door, or not to door... that is the question. > > Corky already had a well reinforced door cutout on his second Piet-- my > current project. (Oscar's Piet was his first.) I am keeping the cutout and > have fabbed a door. Concerned about hard landings and stress points right > there, I added one more diagonal brace, as well. > > As Jack rightly says, no doubt you lose strength cutting the top longeron. > You gain weight trying to get enough strength, not all of it, back. Those > are good reasons not to do it. However, many of my likely future > passengers, like myself, just don't bend that well anymore. For instance, > my wife is only 5' 3" and under 100 pounds, but she is no longer flexible. > [As an aside, I doubt, despite my best intentions, that she will ever fly > in it. She doesn't like first class in a 747. Her loss. I am still > hopeful.] > > I became somewhat convinced the door could be a good idea when my neighbor > my same age, 67, at 6 feet and in good shape ( a runner), had some trouble > getting into and out of the Piet here, even with the door cutout and a > stepstool. There is just not a lot of room to put feet, trunk, shoulders, > through various restrictions and into the right spaces. > > A few months back Oscar took a passenger of about 55 years age and 200 > pounds. He was of average height, but I saw that he had a lot of trouble > bending into the spaces, both getting in and out. Of course, even with the > door cutout, I will be unlikely to carry someone my height, girth, and > weight. It's a fact. > > In short, having a door is a choice with some possible future benefits but > known immediate penalties. It also adds complexity and time to the build. > Likely many who add the door, I have specific passengers in mind that > I/they wish to fit. That's my case-- as I once told Chuck Gantzer, I am > trying to make it easier for tall Nicole Kidman to get in ;) Seriously, on > balance, if Corky had not already done a good job with the coutout, I likely > would not have added a door. It's your choice. > > Tim in central TX > > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > >>Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:33 pm > >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat > >> > >>Matt, > >> > >>Gary Price developed a door mod for the front seat some years ago, but > few > >Piets use it. Basically, anyone too large to be able to climb into the > >front cockpit of a Piet is probably too heavy to carry anyway. Any door > mod > >requires cutting the upper longeron and that is simply not a good idea, > >particularly in the area between the cabane struts (and the landing > >gear/lift strut fittings). Substantial beefing up of the remaining > >structure attempts to restore some of the strength lost by cutting the > >longeron, and succeeds in adding substantial weight. > >> > >>I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and I can make it into the front cockpit of my Piet > >with little trouble. My wife does it all the time. > >> > >>Jack Phillips > >>NX899JP > >>Raleigh, NC > >> > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 03:24:49 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: side door cut out for front seat
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Mark, I have not seen the plans, or spoken with anyone involved with them, but I would be curious to know if proper stress analyses(sp?) were performed for those drawings, or whether they were drawn because it 'looked good'. Not to disparage those that drew them up; just curious. I concur with Jack's opinions on the detriments to adding the door. Some have built one in, and it has worked; I'm just not a fan. I look at the door argument and say this: why, in all his years of building Pietenpol Air Campers and making changes to the design such as lengthening the fuselage, using a Corvair auto engine, etc, did he never an Air Camper with a door for the front cockpit (I've never heard/read of one)? He mentions lengthening the cabanes four inches on the first Piet built for the Corvair; what other reason for doing that would he have besides easing entry into the front cockpit? And if a door was a better idea, why didn't he do that instead? I'm sure it wasn't because he didn't think of it. He had been in and around aviation for probably 30 some-odd years by that point, and I'm sure he had observed side entry doors on many other open cockpit biplane/parasol aircraft. Finally, I think there's an issue with Matt using that video for illustrating how difficult it is to get into a Piet. No doubt, it is more challenging than many light aircraft. However, it appears that the gentleman attempting to enter the cockpit was not given a proper step-by-step explanation of how to do it, and he did not have someone helping him accomplish it. He just had a cameraman standing there laughing at him as he tried to figure it out (no offense to the cameraman, I'm just sayin'). With a minute of explanation, and some help to accomplish it, I'm sure it would looked far less foolish. It would have been less funny for us to watch, but I digress.... Ryan On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:34 PM, Mark Roberts <mark.rbrts1@gmail.com> wrote: > Hey Guys, > > I know there is a set of plans (from Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works) > published that I saw from Mike Groah for a door in the passenger side. I was > under the belief it was engineered to be strong enough for the plane. > > Mark > > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote: > >> timothywillis@earthlink.net> >> >> To door, or not to door... that is the question. >> >> Corky already had a well reinforced door cutout on his second Piet-- my >> current project. (Oscar's Piet was his first.) I am keeping the cutout and >> have fabbed a door. Concerned about hard landings and stress points right >> there, I added one more diagonal brace, as well. >> >> As Jack rightly says, no doubt you lose strength cutting the top longeron. >> You gain weight trying to get enough strength, not all of it, back. Those >> are good reasons not to do it. However, many of my likely future >> passengers, like myself, just don't bend that well anymore. For instance, >> my wife is only 5' 3" and under 100 pounds, but she is no longer flexible. >> [As an aside, I doubt, despite my best intentions, that she will ever fly >> in it. She doesn't like first class in a 747. Her loss. I am still >> hopeful.] >> >> I became somewhat convinced the door could be a good idea when my neighbor >> my same age, 67, at 6 feet and in good shape ( a runner), had some trouble >> getting into and out of the Piet here, even with the door cutout and a >> stepstool. There is just not a lot of room to put feet, trunk, shoulders, >> through various restrictions and into the right spaces. >> >> A few months back Oscar took a passenger of about 55 years age and 200 >> pounds. He was of average height, but I saw that he had a lot of trouble >> bending into the spaces, both getting in and out. Of course, even with the >> door cutout, I will be unlikely to carry someone my height, girth, and >> weight. It's a fact. >> >> In short, having a door is a choice with some possible future benefits but >> known immediate penalties. It also adds complexity and time to the build. >> Likely many who add the door, I have specific passengers in mind that >> I/they wish to fit. That's my case-- as I once told Chuck Gantzer, I am >> trying to make it easier for tall Nicole Kidman to get in ;) Seriously, on >> balance, if Corky had not already done a good job with the coutout, I likely >> would not have added a door. It's your choice. >> >> Tim in central TX >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >> >>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> >> >>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >> >>Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:33 pm >> >>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat >> >> >> >>Matt, >> >> >> >>Gary Price developed a door mod for the front seat some years ago, but >> few >> >Piets use it. Basically, anyone too large to be able to climb into the >> >front cockpit of a Piet is probably too heavy to carry anyway. Any door >> mod >> >requires cutting the upper longeron and that is simply not a good idea, >> >particularly in the area between the cabane struts (and the landing >> >gear/lift strut fittings). Substantial beefing up of the remaining >> >structure attempts to restore some of the strength lost by cutting the >> >longeron, and succeeds in adding substantial weight. >> >> >> >>I'm 6'2" and 200 lbs and I can make it into the front cockpit of my Piet >> >with little trouble. My wife does it all the time. >> >> >> >>Jack Phillips >> >>NX899JP >> >>Raleigh, NC >> >


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:20:27 PM PST US
    Subject: I hope the list is dead tonight.....
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    ....because everyone is out flying the pants off of their Piets, or getting rides in Piets, or taking to the skies any which way they possibly can. My better half (and you that met her know that is a severe understatement) is working this evening. I have spent some time cleaning firearms, and will spend some time cleaning our engine block later on. I hope everyone is having an enjoyable weekend! Ryan


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:26:38 PM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: A65 to A75 swap
    A little update on my engine swap. Last weekend I got the engine started and everything came up normally but the engine developed an oil leak about the time I was ready to shut it down anyway. Also had a very slow drip from the Curtis valve on the gascolator and the prop was one bolt out of "clock" and a bit out of track. Today I took care of all those squawks. Re-clocked and shimmed the prop to bring it into track, replaced the Curtis drain valve on the gascolator (DO NOT try to just replace the O-ring on the nose of the valve... if it leaks, replace it). The oil leak turned out to be at one of the oil gallery plugs at the front of the engine and I think I'm eventually going to have to heli- coil it because the threads on that side aren't great. Engine started up just fine, runup was normal, and off we went to seat the rings. Here are a couple of lessons learned. Performance figures will not mean anything right now because the engine is very tight and I flew the airplane with the cowling off, in order to have everything where I could see it readily. If Dick Navratil can fly his Rotec radial powered piet with no cowling, so can I! And I also figured flying it without the cowling would provide more drag and thus more load on the engine to help with seating the rings. 1. In a slip (or even in straight flight), a bare Piet firewall into the wind is more effective than flaps, a belly board, and Precise Flight wing spoilers. In other words, it has the coefficient of drag of a broadside barn door. My first approach to landing was nearly vertical. 2. With power on, this engine/prop combo goes into the redline VERY quickly when the nose goes down and revs build very readily. Same for the airplane... nose down equals Vne very quickly unless power is pulled off right now. It didn't do that with the 65. 3. (A) It gets VERY bumpy on an August afternoon. (B) The vertical travel of the fuel needle on a Stromberg NAS3 carb is only about 1/16" from full open to full shut. (C) When a Piet with a Stromberg hits a big summer bump on downwind, the rapid vertical change can bounce the float in the carb, making the engine hiccup momentarily. (D) When cautiously breaking in a new engine and it hiccups, it can make a Piet pilot's heart stop. I now know this ;o) The engine is running strong and smooth, starts easily (but is still very stiff), and promises to provide the airplane with a real kick in the pants. The proof will come soon, as I put the cowling back on and get more relaxed in the airplane where I can put it through its paces. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC, A75 and Culver prop San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 16


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    Time: 05:51:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Gentlemen, With all this talk about front cockpit doors etc, I think this, an appropriate time, to take the opportunity to expound on one?of the great?attributes?of the Pietenpol design. * Difficulty of entry. In order to get into the front cockpit, one must be somewhat of a contortionist. In my airplane (not yet flying) I have?concluded upon a number of specific instructions.? 1) Chock wheels. 2) Step over?left-rear wing strut and brace wire with left foot/leg. 3) While lifting left foot and leg, place left foot on top of left tire.?Using left hand, grasp?left-front wing strut. 4) Place right hand, onto left-hand front cockpit longeron. Pull body weight forward,?with both hands/arms, placing entire body weight onto left?leg. Continuing to lift body weight forward, and after slight?hesitation at the top, begin to shift body weight to the port side, so as to allow oneself to lift right leg to sufficient height?to allow to swing right foot over the top of the left-hand passenger cockpit longeron, all-the-while bending the body forward into a quite?unatural position, (hoping that cramping will not set-in) and down onto the front passenger seat frame. (I will have a "red dot" placed in the appropriate spot as to have a "place of reference" to?inform the potential front seat passenger where the correct?placement is, to put the right foot, at this stage of entry, since my seat is woven whicker, and consequently is kind of weak in the middle). 5) While?changing body weight onto right foot, continue to shift body weight to starboard, being careful as to not knock one's head into the?downward-protruding fuel gauge (that is obviously in the way) at this point of the entry procedure. 6) Continue shifting body weight to starboard, and?protrude passenger head out past (and in between and through) right-hand cabane struts, until potential passenger has shifted sufficient body weight over so he (she) is able to lift the left leg up, over, and into the front cockpit floor area. Once this has been accomplished, the passenger can "settle" down into the front seat, awaiting help from the pilot/crew, to fasten all appropriate seat belts etc. ? Let's not forget, that Bernard (he pronounced it "Ber-nerd") never, ever,?mentioned this design change. As such, it will never be "approved". Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 17


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    Time: 06:08:33 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: I hope the list is dead tonight.....
    Cleaning your guns? That's a good way to keep your Better Half in line... I had a fantastic day! Just finished ALL the welding on my straight axle (similar to Larry Williams'). I'll paint tonight and install tomorrow. I cannot say how many months I have been fretting over this! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight..... ....because everyone is out flying the pants off of their Piets, or getting rides in Piets, or taking to the skies any which way they possibly can. My better half (and you that met her know that is a severe understatement) is working this evening. I have spent some time cleaning firearms, and will spend some time cleaning our engine block later on. I hope everyone is having an enjoyable weekend! Ryan


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:11:09 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
    ...or limit passengers to 8 yr olds. Instructions to my grandson will be, "Just climb in." That's all he'll need. You must have been watching me climb in to Greg's Piet. I pretty much recall it as you describe. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Gentlemen, With all this talk about front cockpit doors etc, I think this, an appropriate time, to take the opportunity to expound on one of the great attributes of the Pietenpol design. * Difficulty of entry. In order to get into the front cockpit, one must be somewhat of a contortionist. In my airplane (not yet flying) I have concluded upon a number of specific instructions. 1) Chock wheels. 2) Step over left-rear wing strut and brace wire with left foot/leg. 3) While lifting left foot and leg, place left foot on top of left tire. Using left hand, grasp left-front wing strut. 4) Place right hand, onto left-hand front cockpit longeron. Pull body weight forward, with both hands/arms, placing entire body weight onto left leg. Continuing to lift body weight forward, and after slight hesitation at the top, begin to shift body weight to the port side, so as to allow oneself to lift right leg to sufficient height to allow to swing right foot over the top of the left-hand passenger cockpit longeron, all-the-while bending the body forward into a quite unatural position, (hoping that cramping will not set-in) and down onto the front passenger seat frame. (I will have a "red dot" placed in the appropriate spot as to have a "place of reference" to inform the potential front seat passenger where the correct placement is, to put the right foot, at this stage of entry, since my seat is woven whicker, and consequently is kind of weak in the middle). 5) While changing body weight onto right foot, continue to shift body weight to starboard, being careful as to not knock one's head into the downward-protruding fuel gauge (that is obviously in the way) at this point of the entry procedure. 6) Continue shifting body weight to starboard, and protrude passenger head out past (and in between and through) right-hand cabane struts, until potential passenger has shifted sufficient body weight over so he (she) is able to lift the left leg up, over, and into the front cockpit floor area. Once this has been accomplished, the passenger can "settle" down into the front seat, awaiting help from the pilot/crew, to fasten all appropriate seat belts etc. Let's not forget, that Bernard (he pronounced it "Ber-nerd") never, ever, mentioned this design change. As such, it will never be "approved". Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:29:08 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: video of a gent who is 6' 3" tall getting into a Pietenpol
    I've had guys in their 80's get into my cockpit. Raise the cabanes 2 or 3" higher than plans and forget about the door. Get a Cub or Champ if you want a door:) Kidding-- put a door in if you want but you don't need one. Mike C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A-EgR2eGbN0


    Message 20


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    Time: 06:29:09 PM PST US
    From: Ben Charvet <bcharvet@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build
    Today was a great one! I've been installing a used A-65 on my project for the last 3 weeks. I bought it about 18 months ago and it had just been sitting on the hangar floor since then. Today everything was finally all hooked up, the prop installed, fuel lines, engine gauges, etc. I turned on the fuel and immediately had a dripping from the carbureter. Turns out I hadn't tightened the filter screen cover. That was fixed quick enough. With the switch off I pulled it through 6 blades and could tell by the sound of the carbureter that it had fuel. On the second blade if fired on 2 or 3 cylinders. I switched it off and pulled through 2 more blades, switch on, and it started! I had the tailwheel tied to a tree, but still I only ran it up to 1500 rpm and only ran it a few minutes because I haven't installed the eyebrows yet. >From this link you can see the smile I had. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=399331&l=5d09aea9f0&id=1542217055 After that I loaded my wings onto my trailer and took them out to the airport so I'd have more room in my shop. I'm hoping to get my decals installed next week and get through the 2 or 3 hundred small projects still necessary to finish this thing off. Ben Charvet Mims Fl Hoping to have it in the air for the 80th anniv year


    Message 21


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    Time: 06:41:51 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build
    Way to go Ben and way to go Oscar-- both engines have RUN ! Your new Florida outdoor air conditioner unit, right Ben ?


    Message 22


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    Time: 06:42:11 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build
    Way to go, Ben! Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ben Charvet Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:28 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build Today was a great one! I've been installing a used A-65 on my project for the last 3 weeks. I bought it about 18 months ago and it had just been sitting on the hangar floor since then. Today everything was finally all hooked up, the prop installed, fuel lines, engine gauges, etc. I turned on the fuel and immediately had a dripping from the carbureter. Turns out I hadn't tightened the filter screen cover. That was fixed quick enough. With the switch off I pulled it through 6 blades and could tell by the sound of the carbureter that it had fuel. On the second blade if fired on 2 or 3 cylinders. I switched it off and pulled through 2 more blades, switch on, and it started! I had the tailwheel tied to a tree, but still I only ran it up to 1500 rpm and only ran it a few minutes because I haven't installed the eyebrows yet. >From this link you can see the smile I had. http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=399331&l=5d09aea9f0&id=1542217055 After that I loaded my wings onto my trailer and took them out to the airport so I'd have more room in my shop. I'm hoping to get my decals installed next week and get through the 2 or 3 hundred small projects still necessary to finish this thing off. Ben Charvet Mims Fl Hoping to have it in the air for the 80th anniv year


    Message 23


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    Time: 06:50:26 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: I hope the list is dead tonight.....
    Cool, Gary. One thing about the wire wheel Pietenpol - you'll draw a crowd wherever you go. Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight..... Cleaning your guns? That's a good way to keep your Better Half in line... I had a fantastic day! Just finished ALL the welding on my straight axle (similar to Larry Williams'). I'll paint tonight and install tomorrow. I cannot say how many months I have been fretting over this! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight..... ....because everyone is out flying the pants off of their Piets, or getting rides in Piets, or taking to the skies any which way they possibly can. My better half (and you that met her know that is a severe understatement) is working this evening. I have spent some time cleaning firearms, and will spend some time cleaning our engine block later on. I hope everyone is having an enjoyable weekend! Ryan http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution


    Message 24


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    Time: 08:40:38 PM PST US
    From: Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Re: side door cut out for front seat
    Mark, You can make the cutout strong enough. My point is that it is likely never as strong as before the top longeron was cut, and it certainly weighs more. Tim -----Original Message----- From: Mark Roberts Sent: Aug 8, 2009 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat Hey Guys, I know there is a set of plans (from Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works) published that I saw from Mike Groah for a door in the passenger side. I was under the belief it was engineered to be strong enough for the plane. Mark


    Message 25


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    Time: 08:55:49 PM PST US
    From: Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu>
    Subject: Re: A65 to A75 swap
    Good job!




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