Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:08 AM - Re: Axle welding (helspersew@aol.com)
2. 04:37 AM - Magneto and prop for Model A (John Smoyer)
3. 06:21 AM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (amsafetyc@aol.com)
4. 08:05 AM - Milestone day in my Pietenpol build (Oscar Zuniga)
5. 08:08 AM - side door cut out for front seat (Oscar Zuniga)
6. 08:12 AM - side door cut out for front seat (Oscar Zuniga)
7. 08:16 AM - Re: Magneto and prop for Model A (Will42)
8. 08:30 AM - accident/incident investigations (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 09:08 AM - Re: accident/incident investigations (Jim Markle)
10. 09:53 AM - Re: A65 to A75 swap (Lagowski Morrow)
11. 10:12 AM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Bill Church)
12. 10:35 AM - Re: accident/incident investigations (Gary Boothe)
13. 11:09 AM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (amsafetyc@aol.com)
14. 01:12 PM - Re: door cutout (Tim Willis)
15. 01:12 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Jeff Boatright)
16. 01:42 PM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Mark Roberts)
17. 02:08 PM - WP (helspersew@aol.com)
18. 02:24 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Ryan Mueller)
19. 02:55 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Jack Phillips)
20. 03:39 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Jeff Boatright)
21. 04:03 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (John Hofmann)
22. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (shad bell)
23. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Gary Boothe)
24. 05:17 PM - Piettie, in response to the faa's letter (shad bell)
25. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Gene & Tammy)
26. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Darrel Jones)
27. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Wayne Bressler)
28. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Rick Holland)
29. 06:49 PM - Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (motorbikemikexb9)
30. 07:10 PM - landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Oscar Zuniga)
31. 07:25 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
32. 07:33 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Wayne Bressler)
33. 07:37 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (mike)
34. 07:38 PM - Re Fuel vents (GR Hewitt)
35. 07:40 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (amsafetyc@aol.com)
36. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (mike)
37. 08:04 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Mark Roberts)
38. 08:10 PM - Re: Re Fuel vents (Jeff Boatright)
39. 08:10 PM - Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Mark Roberts)
40. 08:10 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Gary Boothe)
41. 08:14 PM - Re: Re Fuel vents (Gary Boothe)
42. 08:54 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Wayne Bressler)
43. 08:58 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Wayne Bressler)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Axle welding |
Looks good Gary!!=C2- One more milestone checked off.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL
-----Original Message-----
From: Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Sat, Aug 8, 2009 8:05 pm
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight.....
Cleaning your guns? That=99s a good way to keep your Better Half in
line..
=C2-
I had a fantastic day! Just finished ALL the welding on my straight axle
(similar to Larry Williams=99). I=99ll paint tonight and inst
all tomorrow. I cannot say how many months I have been fretting over this!
=C2-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear
(13 ribs down)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li
st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:20 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight.....
=C2-
....because everyone is out flying the pants off of their Piets, or gettin
g rides in Piets, or taking to the skies any which way they possibly can.
My better half (and you that met her know that is a severe understatement
) is working this evening. I have spent some time cleaning firearms, and
will spend some time cleaning our engine block later on. I hope everyone
is having an enjoyable weekend!
Ryan
=C2-
=C2-
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.
matronics.com/contribution
=C2-
Message 2
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| Subject: | Magneto and prop for Model A |
Hi, Guys,
Can anyone recommend good sources for a magneto and a prop to use with the Model
A engine?
Thanks.
John Smoyer
Hockessin, DE
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Milestone day in my Pietenpol build |
Ben; it's quite a feeling, isn't it? The work seems to go
faster and with more purpose once the airplane has a beating
heart.
One small suggestion, and you may have already done this but
it wasn't evident in the photo- while doing engine tests,
keep a fire extinguisher handy and out of range of the engine
and spinning prop. Mine could have come in handy when I
first started my A65 since my engine flooded frequently
before I got the hang of starting it, and things do tend to
leak when you're doing initial fitup. There are plenty of
pictures and videos of fresh engine starts where a new project
burnt to the ground.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC- A75 and Culver prop
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 5
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| Subject: | side door cut out for front seat |
Referencing the 55-year-old guy that I gave a ride to and
that Tim mentioned, I want to clarify that the gentleman
informed me that he had back and shoulder injuries, bad
knees, and was a smoker. He had an inordinately difficult
time climbing into my airplane due to his physical issues.
It really isn't all that difficult.
And to the matter of putting a red dot, "X", or other mark
on the front seat where a passenger should land their foot
when climbing in, the difficulty is that in that point of
the maneuver, their head is well out the starboard side,
and they cannot look down past the top longeron to see the
seat. In cases like that, I generally help guide their
foot to the proper place on the seat because they have no
idea. The thing is, once a person has done it once or
twice, they seem to slither in much more easily, all the
sooner to get settled in and airborne. I have never had
a passenger get out and say they'll never go up in a Piet
again... most are ready and willing to go back up at the
next offer of a ride and it will be much easier for them
to climb in the second time around.
Except for women, who always seem to need assistance in the
form of some strategically-placed manual guidance, eh Mikee??
"Never disconcert the Ms.'s"- is that the new mantra?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 6
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| Subject: | side door cut out for front seat |
As to the side door cutout, that entire side framing of
the fuselage can be infilled with 1" thick polystyrene
foam board and glassed both sides, a la KR. That treatment
will provide VERY adequate strength and stiffness to the
area where a door cutout is made. Normal fabric
covering can then proceed and the fiberglass will only be
visible inside the cockpits on the cutout side.
I have no idea what the new load paths would be, but
I'll wager that the cutout will no longer be the "soft"
structural area of that side of the airplane.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Magneto and prop for Model A |
J. Anderson of Cloudcars propellers (325-356-2810) can recommend a prop and build
it too and he will work with you to find what you want/need.
As for the magneto choice; there are lots of good mags out there and priced right
if you look around (ebay always has lots of them listed). A four cylinder tractor
mag with the correct rotation is what you need; also whether flange mount
or base mount depending on your set-up. I would recommend a side drive rather
than the end mount; it's much easier to get to if service is needed. You might
want to talk to a magneto shop to see what mags still have service parts available
if needed.
I haven't tried this but I believe a nice side drive can be fashioned from a governor
drive set-up.
Will
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256775#256775
Message 8
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| Subject: | accident/incident investigations |
Mikee- it's interesting that you mention the cases that you
have seen, and the hassles that Pieti (Lowell Frank) is going
through. I thought for sure I was going to have to endure
the same sort of grilling when 41CC went over on its nose. I
researched the definition of "accident" and "incident" and I
thought for sure that the situation with 41CC was an "accident"
and that both Charlie (pilot) and I (owner) were in for some
hell from the NTSB and FAA. Not so. Apparently the
investigators didn't even care to come look at the airplane
even though we didn't touch it after retrieving it from the
field and moving it to the hangar. We sent pictures and
someone from a local law enforcement agency came by to look at
it, but the big boys didn't deem it serious enough to slap
either me or Charlie. Strange to think that Lowell's incident
was serious enough in their eyes to cause all this ruckus, yet
the situation with 41CC was not.
Carb ice stopped the engine, an off-field landing was made in
a rough field, welds broke on the landing gear legs, collapsing
the gear and putting the airplane on its nose and then over on
its back. I dunno... sounds a little bit more like an "accident"
than Lowell's broken bungee, no?
I'm not asking that my case be reopened for investigation, so
don't go turning me in!!! I just feel bad about Pieti.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: accident/incident investigations |
Maybe the difference is in the audience? When people have a big audience (10,000
EAA attendees) vs a small audience (a few cows and maybe one farmer?)....people
sometimes change personalities, honesty, virtue, morals, integrity, etc...it's
sad but we're all human after all.
And I agree, I really feel bad about this whole thing....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 9, 2009 10:28 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations
>
>
>
>Mikee- it's interesting that you mention the cases that you
>have seen, and the hassles that Pieti (Lowell Frank) is going
>through. I thought for sure I was going to have to endure
>the same sort of grilling when 41CC went over on its nose. I
>researched the definition of "accident" and "incident" and I
>thought for sure that the situation with 41CC was an "accident"
>and that both Charlie (pilot) and I (owner) were in for some
>hell from the NTSB and FAA. Not so. Apparently the
>investigators didn't even care to come look at the airplane
>even though we didn't touch it after retrieving it from the
>field and moving it to the hangar. We sent pictures and
>someone from a local law enforcement agency came by to look at
>it, but the big boys didn't deem it serious enough to slap
>either me or Charlie. Strange to think that Lowell's incident
>was serious enough in their eyes to cause all this ruckus, yet
>the situation with 41CC was not.
>
>Carb ice stopped the engine, an off-field landing was made in
>a rough field, welds broke on the landing gear legs, collapsing
>the gear and putting the airplane on its nose and then over on
>its back. I dunno... sounds a little bit more like an "accident"
>than Lowell's broken bungee, no?
>
>I'm not asking that my case be reopened for investigation, so
>don't go turning me in!!! I just feel bad about Pieti.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A65 to A75 swap |
>From personal experience, flying without a cowling is a drag, and then some.
That was what helped me wreck my left gear and prop last year. Be real
careful flying without a cowling. Oscar is right about the barn door and
vertical landing--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message -----
From: "Oscar Zuniga" <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:25 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 to A75 swap
>
>
> A little update on my engine swap. Last weekend I got the
> engine started and everything came up normally but the engine
> developed an oil leak about the time I was ready to shut it
> down anyway. Also had a very slow drip from the Curtis valve
> on the gascolator and the prop was one bolt out of "clock" and
> a bit out of track.
>
> Today I took care of all those squawks. Re-clocked and shimmed
> the prop to bring it into track, replaced the Curtis drain valve
> on the gascolator (DO NOT try to just replace the O-ring on the
> nose of the valve... if it leaks, replace it). The oil leak
> turned out to be at one of the oil gallery plugs at the front
> of the engine and I think I'm eventually going to have to heli-
> coil it because the threads on that side aren't great. Engine
> started up just fine, runup was normal, and off we went to seat
> the rings. Here are a couple of lessons learned.
>
> Performance figures will
> not mean anything right now because the engine is very tight
> and I flew the airplane with the cowling off, in order to have
> everything where I could see it readily. If Dick Navratil can
> fly his Rotec radial powered piet with no cowling, so can I!
> And I also figured flying it without the cowling would provide
> more drag and thus more load on the engine to help with seating
> the rings.
>
> 1. In a slip (or even in straight flight), a bare Piet firewall
> into the wind is more effective than flaps, a belly board, and
> Precise Flight wing spoilers. In other words, it has the coefficient
> of drag of a broadside barn door. My first approach to landing
> was nearly vertical.
>
> 2. With power on, this engine/prop combo goes into the redline
> VERY quickly when the nose goes down and revs build very readily.
> Same for the airplane... nose down equals Vne very quickly unless
> power is pulled off right now. It didn't do that with the 65.
>
> 3. (A) It gets VERY bumpy on an August afternoon. (B) The vertical
> travel of the fuel needle on a Stromberg NAS3 carb is only about
> 1/16" from full open to full shut. (C) When a Piet with a
> Stromberg hits a big summer bump on downwind, the rapid vertical
> change can bounce the float in the carb, making the engine
> hiccup momentarily. (D) When cautiously breaking in a new engine
> and it hiccups, it can make a Piet pilot's heart stop. I now
> know this ;o)
>
> The engine is running strong and smooth, starts easily (but is
> still very stiff), and promises to provide the airplane with a
> real kick in the pants. The proof will come soon, as I put the
> cowling back on and get more relaxed in the airplane where I
> can put it through its paces.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC, A75 and Culver prop
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:17:00
Message 11
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| Subject: | Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
John,
I think you better give that idea some more thought...
Oh wait a minute.
I agree with everything you said.
Sorry, force of habit I guess.
Bill C.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of
amsafetyc@aol.com
Sent: Sun 09/08/2009 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
Well its official Dan has checked the lost papers of Ber nerd and
rendered the official opinion.
Actually, I thought the front pit idea would be a neat modification so I
framed one in.
The more I looked at it the more I liked it however, I could not, would
not and did not cut the upper longeron. The thought of which frightened
the hell out of me and so I abandoned the idea and decided to go with
the conventional wisdom. No cutting structurally integral parts for
me. When a potential passenger don't fit they don't ride. Which well
explains why I have yet to catch a ride in my 3 Brodheads. I don't fit
so I don't ride. End of story.
I refuse to compromise safety for anyone or anything!
Just my position.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
Gentlemen,
With all this talk about front cockpit doors etc, I think this, an
appropriate time, to take the opportunity to expound on one?of the
great?attributes?of the Pietenpol design.
* Difficulty of entry. In order to get into the front cockpit, one must
be somewhat of a contortionist. In my airplane (not yet flying) I
have?concluded upon a number of specific instructions.?
1) Chock wheels.
2) Step over?left-rear wing strut and brace wire with left foot/leg.
3) While lifting left foot and leg, place left foot on top of left
tire.?Using left hand, grasp?left-front wing strut.
4) Place right hand, onto left-hand front cockpit longeron. Pull body
weight forward,?with both hands/arms, placing entire body weight onto
left?leg. Continuing to lift body weight forward, and after
slight?hesitation at the top, begin to shift body weight to the port
side, so as to allow oneself to lift right leg to sufficient height?to
allow to swing right foot over the top of the left-hand passenger
cockpit longeron, all-the-while bending the body forward into a
quite?unatural position, (hoping that cramping will not set-in) and down
onto the front passenger seat frame. (I will have a "red dot" placed in
the appropriate spot as to have a "place of reference" to?inform the
potential front seat passenger where the correct?placement is, to put
the right foot, at this stage of entry, since my seat is woven whicker,
and consequently is kind of weak in the middle).
5) While?changing body weight onto right foot, continue to shift body
weight to starboard, being careful as to not knock one's head into
the?downward-protruding fuel gauge (that is obviously in the way) at
this point of the entry procedure.
6) Continue shifting body weight to starboard, and?protrude passenger
head out past (and in between and through) right-hand cabane struts,
until potential passenger has shifted sufficient body weight over so he
(she) is able to lift the left leg up, over, and into the front cockpit
floor area. Once this has been accomplished, the passenger can "settle"
down into the front seat, awaiting help from the pilot/crew, to fasten
all appropriate seat belts etc.
?
Let's not forget, that Bernard (he pronounced it "Ber-nerd") never,
ever,?mentioned this design change. As such, it will never be
"approved".
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 12
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| Subject: | accident/incident investigations |
While at Brodhead, in a conversation with another tire-kicker like me, an
individual was telling me about his aviation background. He as taking an FAA
course, as I recall, and the subject matter was not popular with all the
students. Their motto was, "Comply and graduate." That may apply here, too.
"Gee, Newt...do you think if I study real hard I'll pass the test?"
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations
Maybe the difference is in the audience? When people have a big audience
(10,000 EAA attendees) vs a small audience (a few cows and maybe one
farmer?)....people sometimes change personalities, honesty, virtue, morals,
integrity, etc...it's sad but we're all human after all.
And I agree, I really feel bad about this whole thing....
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Aug 9, 2009 10:28 AM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations
>
>
>
>Mikee- it's interesting that you mention the cases that you
>have seen, and the hassles that Pieti (Lowell Frank) is going
>through. I thought for sure I was going to have to endure
>the same sort of grilling when 41CC went over on its nose. I
>researched the definition of "accident" and "incident" and I
>thought for sure that the situation with 41CC was an "accident"
>and that both Charlie (pilot) and I (owner) were in for some
>hell from the NTSB and FAA. Not so. Apparently the
>investigators didn't even care to come look at the airplane
>even though we didn't touch it after retrieving it from the
>field and moving it to the hangar. We sent pictures and
>someone from a local law enforcement agency came by to look at
>it, but the big boys didn't deem it serious enough to slap
>either me or Charlie. Strange to think that Lowell's incident
>was serious enough in their eyes to cause all this ruckus, yet
>the situation with 41CC was not.
>
>Carb ice stopped the engine, an off-field landing was made in
>a rough field, welds broke on the landing gear legs, collapsing
>the gear and putting the airplane on its nose and then over on
>its back. I dunno... sounds a little bit more like an "accident"
>than Lowell's broken bungee, no?
>
>I'm not asking that my case be reopened for investigation, so
>don't go turning me in!!! I just feel bad about Pieti.
>
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
Bill, true to form with the latent change of direction added for good measure.
Full agreement may not be in your nature. That's not to say I didn't enjoy your
post.
You do have a reputation to uphold!
John
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: "Bill Church" <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
John,
I think you better give that idea some more thought...
Oh wait a minute.
I agree with everything you said.
Sorry, force of habit I guess.
Bill C.
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of amsafetyc@aol.com
Sent: Sun 09/08/2009 9:21 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
Well its official Dan has checked the lost papers of Ber nerd and rendered the
official opinion.
Actually, I thought the front pit idea would be a neat modification so I framed
one in.
The more I looked at it the more I liked it however, I could not, would not and
did not cut the upper longeron. The thought of which frightened the hell out
of me and so I abandoned the idea and decided to go with the conventional wisdom.
No cutting structurally integral parts for me. When a potential passenger
don't fit they don't ride. Which well explains why I have yet to catch a ride
in my 3 Brodheads. I don't fit so I don't ride. End of story.
I refuse to compromise safety for anyone or anything!
Just my position.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: helspersew@aol.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
Gentlemen,
With all this talk about front cockpit doors etc, I think this, an appropriate
time, to take the opportunity to expound on one?of the great?attributes?of the
Pietenpol design.
* Difficulty of entry. In order to get into the front cockpit, one must be somewhat
of a contortionist. In my airplane (not yet flying) I have?concluded upon
a number of specific instructions.?
1) Chock wheels.
2) Step over?left-rear wing strut and brace wire with left foot/leg.
3) While lifting left foot and leg, place left foot on top of left tire.?Using
left hand, grasp?left-front wing strut.
4) Place right hand, onto left-hand front cockpit longeron. Pull body weight forward,?with
both hands/arms, placing entire body weight onto left?leg. Continuing
to lift body weight forward, and after slight?hesitation at the top, begin
to shift body weight to the port side, so as to allow oneself to lift right leg
to sufficient height?to allow to swing right foot over the top of the left-hand
passenger cockpit longeron, all-the-while bending the body forward into a
quite?unatural position, (hoping that cramping will not set-in) and down onto
the front passenger seat frame. (I will have a "red dot" placed in the appropriate
spot as to have a "place of reference" to?inform the potential front seat
passenger where the correct?placement is, to put the right foot, at this stage
of entry, since my seat is woven whicker, and consequently is kind of weak
in the middle).
5) While?changing body weight onto right foot, continue to shift body weight to
starboard, being careful as to not knock one's head into the?downward-protruding
fuel gauge (that is obviously in the way) at this point of the entry procedure.
6) Continue shifting body weight to starboard, and?protrude passenger head out
past (and in between and through) right-hand cabane struts, until potential passenger
has shifted sufficient body weight over so he (she) is able to lift the
left leg up, over, and into the front cockpit floor area. Once this has been
accomplished, the passenger can "settle" down into the front seat, awaiting help
from the pilot/crew, to fasten all appropriate seat belts etc.
?
Let's not forget, that Bernard (he pronounced it "Ber-nerd") never, ever,?mentioned
this design change. As such, it will never be "approved".
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 14
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Oscar as a good idea with the foam and glass. The cutout may be reinforced like
the rest of the plane, as well; for instance, with 1' thick ply or spruce for
some of the infill, with ply gussets inboard of that, and of course the outside
ply skin. It's plenty strong. As in the rest of the plane, the key is triangulation
with diagonals and bonding with gussets.
Tim in central TX
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
John,
We've had people your size and larger in our front pit, so I'm not
sure why you haven't been able to get a ride. In fact, our cockpits
have an annoying amount of sheet aluminum cowling around them. I
guess the builder was going for a look, or maybe he thought a tightly
cowled pit would be warmer in the winter. It makes it that much more
difficult to get in. In any event, we've had 6'2" 230 lb people in
the front, so if I ever make it up your way, I'll give you a ride.
Jeff
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: side door cut out for front seat |
I must agree with you there!
And besides, door or no door, I will still get to fly! :o) So, it really
depends on how badly the passenger wants to go with me!! :oD
Mark
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Mark,
> You can make the cutout strong enough. My point is that it is likely never
> as strong as before the top longeron was cut, and it certainly weighs more.
> Tim
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mark Roberts
> Sent: Aug 8, 2009 3:34 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat
>
> Hey Guys,
>
> I know there is a set of plans (from Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works)
> published that I saw from Mike Groah for a door in the passenger side. I was
> under the belief it was engineered to be strong enough for the plane.
>
> Mark
>
>
Message 17
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"You can beat him Waldo, with my monoplane"
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
This assumes that John's heft is the reason he has not yet had a ride.....
:{
Just kidding! We had the pleasure of meeting John for the first time at
Brodhead this year, and he was very friendly and we all had plenty of fun.
We look forward to seeing you again next year John, if not sooner. Have a
good evening,
Ryan
P.S.: And there will be creme puffs...
do not archive
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Jeff Boatright <jboatri@emory.edu> wrote:
>
> John,
>
> We've had people your size and larger in our front pit, so I'm not sure why
> you haven't been able to get a ride. In fact, our cockpits have an annoying
> amount of sheet aluminum cowling around them. I guess the builder was going
> for a look, or maybe he thought a tightly cowled pit would be warmer in the
> winter. It makes it that much more difficult to get in. In any event, we've
> had 6'2" 230 lb people in the front, so if I ever make it up your way, I'll
> give you a ride.
>
> Jeff
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
Jeff, If you've ever met John you'll realize that his size is just an excuse
for not giving him a ride. There are other reasons...
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Do Not Archive!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:06 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design
John,
We've had people your size and larger in our front pit, so I'm not
sure why you haven't been able to get a ride. In fact, our cockpits
have an annoying amount of sheet aluminum cowling around them. I
guess the builder was going for a look, or maybe he thought a tightly
cowled pit would be warmer in the winter. It makes it that much more
difficult to get in. In any event, we've had 6'2" 230 lb people in
the front, so if I ever make it up your way, I'll give you a ride.
Jeff
Message 20
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| Subject: | Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
Hey, now! None o' that. I met John. He SEEMED right enough...
Allowances must be made for cheese intake and resultant output, but I
figger that's all just part of the charm of the natives...
>
>Jeff, If you've ever met John you'll realize that his size is just an excuse
>for not giving him a ride. There are other reasons...
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design |
He's an inferior model but he'll suit our purposes!
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Aug 9, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote:
> >
>
> Hey, now! None o' that. I met John. He SEEMED right enough...
> Allowances must be made for cheese intake and resultant output, but
> I figger that's all just part of the charm of the natives...
>
>> >
>>
>> Jeff, If you've ever met John you'll realize that his size is just
>> an excuse
>> for not giving him a ride. There are other reasons...
>>
>> Jack Phillips
>> NX899JP
>>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA.- They are usually just a bunch of gestapo se
lf rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is.
- A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa i
s nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for t
hem.- I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no
soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation rela
ted (besides the letter of the law).- I think the same goes for the aircr
aft-maintenance side of the FAA, worthless!- Most faa maintenance inspe
ctors today are there because the sucked as mechanics.- This, of course i
s my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a
pilot, and a mechanic.- I know at one time many many years ago (while th
e earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest
guys in the field (maybe?).- But that ain't the case anymore sonny.
-
Sincerly, You know who
-
P.S.- any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flyin
g skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experia
nce problems.=0A=0A=0A
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Next time.don't hold back.
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo self
rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is. A
fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa is
nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for
them. I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no
soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation
related (besides the letter of the law). I think the same goes for the
aircraft maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance
inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This, of course
is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a
pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the
earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest
guys in the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny.
Sincerly, You know who
P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flying
skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experiance
problems.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Piettie, in response to the faa's letter |
Mr Piettie Lowell, See if you can get one of those spring loaded boxing glo
ves into an envelope (like in the old cartoons), and send it back to the FA
A inspector.- With it send a letter- in response to his flight review l
etter, and ask him what the hell he wants you to teach him during this flig
ht review.- And then make sure it is in you Ford powered Pietenpol, and t
hen see what in the hell he has to say!- I am just a pup myself at 31 yrs
old, but it burns me to see the govt. run things so bass akwords as they d
o.- You know a lifetime more than the desk pilot who would review your sk
ills.
-
Give, Em Hell,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Aw, come on guys, the FAA and the IRS are here to help ya.
Gene in Very hot Tennessee
----- Original Message -----
From: Gary Boothe
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
Next time.don't hold back.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad
bell
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of
gestapo self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an
airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said
that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+
years working for them. I think the job requirements for being in the
faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical
about anything aviation related (besides the letter of the law). I
think the same goes for the aircraft maintenance side of the FAA,
worthless! Most faa maintenance inspectors today are there because the
sucked as mechanics. This, of course is my own generalized oppinion,
formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic. I
know at one time many many years ago (while the earth was still cooling)
the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field
(maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny.
Sincerly, You know who
P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real
world flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real
world experiance problems.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
08/09/09 18:10:00
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Aw, Shad, don't sugar-coat it. Tell us how you really feel.
Back in the old days around here in Northern California our local FAA
guy used to build more airplanes than the local EAA folks. Boy, do we
ever miss him. And what's up with having to hire an engineer and send
reams of paperwork to Kansas to get a "field approval" to make an old
airplane safer.
"We're from the FAA and we're here to help." Chilling words.
On a cheerier note, our local tower guys were our guest speakers at our
last EAA meeting. One of them is actually building his own light sport
A/C, so there may be a glimmer of hope.
All the best to the Pietenpol crowd from Sonoma, CA!
Darrel
shad bell wrote:
> To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo
> self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an
> airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said
> that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+
> years working for them. I think the job requirements for being in the
> faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical
> about anything aviation related (besides the letter of the law). I
> think the same goes for the aircraft maintenance side of the FAA,
> worthless! Most faa maintenance inspectors today are there because
> the sucked as mechanics. This, of course is my own generalized
> oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a
> mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the earth was
> still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in
> the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny.
>
> Sincerly, You know who
>
> P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world
> flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real
> world experiance problems.
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Gene,
That Tennessee heat must really be getting to your head! :)
Do not archive
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Aug 9, 2009, at 8:30 PM, "Gene & Tammy"
<zharvey@bentoncountycable.net
> wrote:
> Aw, come on guys, the FAA and the IRS are here to help ya.
> Gene in Very hot Tennessee
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gary Boothe
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:15 PM
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
>
> Next timedon=99t hold back
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-
> pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
> Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
>
> To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of
> gestapo self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what
> an airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name,
> said that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he
> spent 20+ years working for them. I think the job requirements for
> being in the faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know
> anything practical about anything aviation related (besides the
> letter of the law). I think the same goes for the aircraft
> maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance
> inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This,
> of course is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in
> aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many
> many years ago (while the earth was still cooling) the faa guys were
> the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field (maybe?). But that
> ain't the case anymore sonny.
>
> Sincerly, You know who
>
> P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world
> flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real
> world experiance problems.
>
>
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> http://forums.matronics.com
> http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
>
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr
onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
> www.matronics.com/c
> - Release Date: 08/09/09 18:10:00
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Sorry to hear about the FAA fiasco Lowell, its enough to make a pilot look
seriously into going part 103 for a next aircraft build project. I have been
thinking seriously about a Legal Eagle XL for my next project.
Good luck
Rick
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Jared Yates <junk@jaredyates.com> wrote:
>
> Lowell, I've been through what you are going through, and I must say that
> it
> is can be an unpleasant experience. You aren't by chance enrolled in the
> AOPA legal services plan, are you? I found first-hand that FAA inspectors
> can try to overstep their power and duties quite regularly. Having someone
> to ask "can they ask me that" made it much easier for me.
>
> It is a privilege that they have to re-evaluate any airman, at the airman's
> expense. It stinks, but you'll have to take it seriously! If they don't
> give you a satisfactory result to the checkride, you won't be able to fly
> anymore. Respond before the deadline, and keep in mind that you don't have
> to take the checkride within 10 days, you just have to respond. In my
> case,
> it was actually a month or two after the accident before the re-evaluation
> ride.
>
> Also note that you aren't obliged to answer questions about the past. The
> FAA inspectors know that they don't have the privilege of interrogating you
> to try and get evidence for a violation. In my case they were trying to
> use
> the reevaluation ride as a chance to do just that. I spent a couple of
> hours dodging questions about the accident flight and requesting that the
> inspector stick to general questions about my qualifications to hold my
> certificate. It was a diplomatic tightrope to say the least. I hope that
> you end up with a good FSDO and inspector, and that your experience was
> better than mine. Let them know that you are going to have trouble finding
> a tailwheel airplane to rent, and that should buy you some time. You might
> also consider hiring a specialized aviation lawyer if you are not in the
> legal services plan, depending on how important it is to you that you
> continue to hold your certificate. You can also find the inspector's
> handbook online and read about what the boundries are for the checkride, as
> far as what they should and shouldn't be asking you about.
>
> >From this point on, take notes about who you talk to at the FAA/NTSB,
> including the date and time, and a brief summary of the discussion. In my
> case my file fell between the cracks on their end, and they tried to accuse
> me of avoiding the checkride, when they had actually not been returning my
> phone calls. This is the kind of thing you might be up against! The folks
> at both the NTSB and the FAA are not your friend. As for the rest of you,
> think seriously about that legal services plan! As some have said, this
> type of thing can happen to any of us.
>
> Hang in there! You can do this, but be smart about it.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pieti
> Lowell
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:02 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
>
> <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
>
> You fellows ,I don't think you know the half of it, I got a registered
> letter late Friday , dated Thursday, saying that I have 10 days from the
> letter's date to respond to FAA regarding practically redoing my complete
> Private License Tests learning over, from getting a tail dragger to be
> retested , check ride , Area operations III,, IV etc, Where does one begin
> ?
> so far dozens of phone calls just to find an Instructor with a conventional
> gear plane, and when asked if it would be OK to take my check-ride in a
> Pietenpol HA only certified craft with ALL paper work on the plane
> complete. and it goes on and on. Still no airplanes yet available and I
> don't blame anyone to get involved , what a hassle and with over 2000 tail
> dragger hours.
> Pieti Lowell
>
> Wednesday during the Homebuilt Review Showcase (where they shafted one of
> our three Pietenpol guys--Jack Phillips by cutting one of the Piets out of
> the event) the Rotec powered Junior Ace from Poplar Grove nearly lost it in
> similar wind conditions when landing. Three times he nearly had his wing
> tips in the turf--scary stuff but he managed to add power, continue down
> the
> runway and get a second chance.
>
> I was astonished at the ineptitude of the EAA/FAA/and law enforcement
> people
> who kept Lowell and his plane out on the runway for well over an hour.
> First off---Lowell's well being, once that was established to not be an
> issue they should have cleared off and talked with him elsewhere if they
> needed to. I should know better--if the gov't is involved they will take
> the least practical path to a conclusion.
>
> Mike C.[/quote]
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256592#256592
>
>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
Message 29
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| Subject: | Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been a
fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel,
as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started
building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week
and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build
one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working.
I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over the
past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but feel I still have alot to learn.
I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering technique
and figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified.
This will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very
safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certification
process to fly them. I'm currently working on my private pilots license as
well.
To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good places
to find information that will help me with my build.
Some admediate concerns are:
what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steel
tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardware
recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good place
to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification?
Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee
area?
Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefully
meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together.
Thanks, Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
Message 30
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| Subject: | landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
I'll tell you another good one. Last year I got to fly the EA-6B
Prowler simulator at Whidbey Naval Air Station. As I sat in the left
seat of the sim with the throttles in my left hand and stick in my
right, he voice in the headphones was the simulator operator, up
in a darkened room somewhere. My buddy Maj. Kyle "Itchy" Rash was
the right seater and my instructor. Incidentally, Itchy is up for
promotion to LtCol next month, so the beer will soon be flowing.
On my second or third attempt at landing the "Prowler" on the deck
of a carrier at sea, the voice in the headphones asked, "flying left
seat, what do you normally fly?" to which I responded, "ahhh, you
probably don't know the airplane but it's an experimental
single-engine, two-place high winger called a Pietenpol Air Camper".
Silence, followed by, "I've always wanted to build one but I'm six
foot four and don't think I'd fit. It's a great little airplane.
Fly your final to the carrier deck just like you'd fly a short and
soft field in the Piet. Give it a try."
I nailed the next landing.
There are some good folks out there on the other end of the radio,
and I'll bet there are still some good folks in the FAA and NTSB
too. We just need to get them into a Piet and when we're done
flying, sit them in a chair outside the hangar some evening, project
"The Great Waldo Pepper" on the side of the hangar wall, and
hand them a beer.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Welcome to the best place for the best information on your intended build.
There are DVDs available from fellow builders. Mike Cuy has a really good
one along with other Piet builders. The books by Tony Bengellis are a must
for the builders library. The plans are available through the pietenpol
family so they are easily gotten and would recommend you join the BPA for the
news letter. You just missed the Brodhead gathering where you can see the
piets up close talk to the builders and get some really great advice while
stealing ideas. Who knows with the number of piets in Illinois you can visit
some in progress of building and get a chance to ride in some already
built.
The folks you'll meet on this board and in person in Brodhead are some of
the best folks you'll ever meet most are friendly and ready to lend advice.
Building a Piet is rewarding on to itself and the journey is spectacular
plus you'll end up with a great airplane and a bunch of new friends.
I think you made 2 wise choices on in building the Piet and the second was
to come here.
Enjoy the adventure
John
message dated 8/9/2009 9:49:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "motorbikemikexb9"
<motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've
been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic
look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning
to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at
Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge
into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal
fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of
giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but
feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe
strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a
airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full scale
build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I have
never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm
currently working on m!
y private pilots license as well.
To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good
places to find information that will help me with my build.
Some admediate concerns are:
what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood
or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of
fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is
a
good place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building /
covering / certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the
Chicago/ Milwaukee area?
Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum
and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes
together.
Thanks, Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Mike,
Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are
available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either
Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my
phone...
Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol
family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with
the original build article and "plans".
With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said
it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you
won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)...
Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth
the cost savings.
And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line
from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher
what's actually being said on this list.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning!
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net
> wrote:
> >
>
> Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge.
> I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love
> their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open
> cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper
> for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them
> up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build
> one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood
> working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale
> R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but
> feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about
> airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what
> is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This
> will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very
> safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any
> certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!
> y private pilots license as well.
>
> To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any
> good places to find information that will help me with my build.
>
> Some admediate concerns are:
> what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go:
> Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain
> grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type
> of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full
> scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any
> local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?
>
> Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the
> forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my
> plane comes together.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Hi Mike,
I'm your confusing email address doppelganger, bike.mike. One of my bikes is
a motorbike (BMW R100R) but the rest are human powered.
Most of the guys on the list are fair-minded, reasonable people. However,
there are a few of the "type A" sort who believe that a genuine "Pietenpol"
Aircamper is made of wood, is powered by a Model A engine, and is built from
a set of plans approved by Bernard H. Pietenpol (never say "Bernie"), signed
by draftsman Orrin Hoopman, and sold by the Pietenpol family.
Most of this crowd is extremely helpful, freely giving of their combined
centuries of experience building and flying this magnificent flying machine.
In the heartland of America you have access to many brilliant examples of
Piets built by every sort of craftsman; visit them and you will acquire a
list of lifelong friends.
As to your specific questions, there will be many answers from the various
camps regarding the merits of wood over steel, Model A over Corvair over
Continental over Rotec, and even the merits of Home Depot over Wicks over
Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. Be prepared to do some of your own research.
Welcome to the coolest list-serve in the world.
Mike Hardaway
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
motorbikemikexb9
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help.
--> <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've
been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic
look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm
planning to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was
up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the
edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal
fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of
giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes
but feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe
strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a
airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full
scale build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I
have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm
currently working on m!
y private pilots license as well.
To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good
places to find information that will help me with my build.
Some admediate concerns are:
what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or
steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners
or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good
place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering
/ certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/
Milwaukee area?
Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum
and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes
together.
Thanks, Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
Message 34
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|
Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel
quantity gage
Will this double as a fuel vent without any probs?
Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm the one doing
a great stunt.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Wayne Bressler <wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help.
Mike,
Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are
available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either
Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my
phone...
Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol
family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with
the original build article and "plans".
With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said
it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you
won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)...
Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth
the cost savings.
And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line
from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher
what's actually being said on this list.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning!
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" <motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net
> wrote:
> >
>
> Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge.
> I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love
> their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open
> cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper
> for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them
> up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build
> one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood
> working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale
> R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but
> feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about
> airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what
> is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This
> will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very
> safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any
> certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!
> y private pilots license as well.
>
> To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any
> good places to find information that will help me with my build.
>
> Some admediate concerns are:
> what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go:
> Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain
> grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type
> of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full
> scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any
> local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?
>
> Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the
> forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my
> plane comes together.
>
> Thanks, Mike
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
>
>
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Frankly, most of the FAA employees I have met are themselves pilots and/or
mechanics, most with considerably more than 15 years of experience, who love
airplanes and aviation the business of keeping it all safe. Several are
airplane builders. But then I have only received the business end of one
"inquiry" (inquisition really, but I learned a lot about density altitude).
Any large collection of people is going to have a few fools and the FAA is
not exempt. Shad, I'm sorry that your experiences have only brought those
exceptions to the surface.
Mike
(one of many)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday
To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo self
rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is. A
fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa is
nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for
them. I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no
soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation
related (besides the letter of the law). I think the same goes for the
aircraft maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance
inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This, of course
is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a
pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the
earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest
guys in the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny.
Sincerly, You know who
P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flying
skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experiance
problems.
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Welcome Mike!
As a newbie myself here I am just chipping in to say that I ave asked a rash
of questions and never been chewed out once, even though some (many?) were
repeats from previous posts. There is an achive that can be searched to get
a few answers from, and that was where I was directed a couple of times for
more in-depth answers that had been chewed on a while before I came on
board.
I too am an R/C builder for 40 years, and alas, have finally graduated to
the real deal. In fact (horror of horrors), tomorrow a friend of mine is
coming over to clean out the entire lot of my R/C stuff. I'll have a very
bare garage, as just about every corner of the place is stuffed with R/C
materials of one sort or another.
However, I am too big to fit into any of those, and I need the room and the
money for Piet building!
Oh well, if I had seen the Great Waldo Pepper movie (sorry) I'd know a line
that would address that problem :o)
I guess I need to get over to BlockBusters this week (now that I know where
all those lines have come from!)
Welcome to a great bunch of guys from all over the place!
Mark
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 7:40 PM, <amsafetyc@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm the one
> doing a great stunt.
>
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wayne Bressler <wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
> Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 22:28:04
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com<pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little
> help.
>
>
> wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
> Mike,
>
> Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are
> available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either
> Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my
> phone...
>
> Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol
> family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with
> the original build article and "plans".
>
> With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said
> it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you
> won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)...
> Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth
> the cost savings.
>
> And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line
> from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher
> what's actually being said on this list.
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
>
> Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning!
>
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
>
> Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
>
> On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" <
> motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net
> > wrote:
>
> motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net
> > >
> >
> > Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge.
> > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love
> > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open
> > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper
> > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them
> > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build
> > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood
> > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale
> > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but
> > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about
> > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what
> > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This
> > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very
> > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any
> > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m!
> > y private pilots license as well.
> >
> > To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any
> > good places to find information that will help me with my build.
> >
> > Some admediate concerns are:
> > what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go:
> > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain
> > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type
> > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full
> > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any
> > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area?
> >
> > Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the
> > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my
> > plane comes together.
> >
> > Thanks, Mike
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Re Fuel vents |
That setup worked on our Piet for years. However, I don't think it's
a good idea. We now have another hole in the cap, fitted with an
aluminum tube bent 90 degrees, facing forward. Cheap redundancy.
>Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel quantity gage
>
>Will this double as a fuel vent without any probs?
>Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday |
Hey Oscar:
I'm 6'4" 250lbs... I hope I can fit! (I'm working on the diet... So far it's
been the 'High Weight Gain Diet' promoted by Michael Moore... but who
listens to him!?)
Mark
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> I'll tell you another good one. Last year I got to fly the EA-6B
> Prowler simulator at Whidbey Naval Air Station. As I sat in the left
> seat of the sim with the throttles in my left hand and stick in my
> right, he voice in the headphones was the simulator operator, up
> in a darkened room somewhere. My buddy Maj. Kyle "Itchy" Rash was
> the right seater and my instructor. Incidentally, Itchy is up for
> promotion to LtCol next month, so the beer will soon be flowing.
>
> On my second or third attempt at landing the "Prowler" on the deck
> of a carrier at sea, the voice in the headphones asked, "flying left
> seat, what do you normally fly?" to which I responded, "ahhh, you
> probably don't know the airplane but it's an experimental
> single-engine, two-place high winger called a Pietenpol Air Camper".
>
> Silence, followed by, "I've always wanted to build one but I'm six
> foot four and don't think I'd fit. It's a great little airplane.
> Fly your final to the carrier deck just like you'd fly a short and
> soft field in the Piet. Give it a try."
>
> I nailed the next landing.
>
> There are some good folks out there on the other end of the radio,
> and I'll bet there are still some good folks in the FAA and NTSB
> too. We just need to get them into a Piet and when we're done
> flying, sit them in a chair outside the hangar some evening, project
> "The Great Waldo Pepper" on the side of the hangar wall, and
> hand them a beer.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 40
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| Subject: | Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
Mike,
Forget about what everyone else has said. Just get a copy of "The Great
Waldo Pepper," then quote lines from it at every opportunity. Everything you
need to know about flying and building is within this script...
"Son? Son? Would you mind propping me, Son?"
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
motorbikemikexb9
Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:48 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help.
<motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net>
Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've
been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic
look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm
planning to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was
up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the
edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal
fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of
giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes
but feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe
strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a
airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full
scale build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I
have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm
currently working on m!
y private pilots license as well.
To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good
places to find information that will help me with my build.
Some admediate concerns are:
what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or
steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners
or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good
place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering
/ certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/
Milwaukee area?
Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum
and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes
together.
Thanks, Mike
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853
Message 41
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.been working on Taylorcrafts for over 60 years!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel quantity
gage
Will this double as a fuel vent without any probs?
Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz
Message 42
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| Subject: | Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
And that's why you're getting all the glory.
Do not archive
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Aug 9, 2009, at 10:40 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote:
>
> Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm
> the one doing a great stunt.
>
>
> John
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 43
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| Subject: | Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. |
"Oh no, sir. All the money I make is going toward the building of a
brand new airplane for air acrobatics."
Do not archive
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
> However, I am too big to fit into any of those, and I need the room
> and the money for Piet building!
>
> Oh well, if I had seen the Great Waldo Pepper movie (sorry) I'd know
> a line that would address that problem :o)
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