---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/09/09: 43 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:08 AM - Re: Axle welding (helspersew@aol.com) 2. 04:37 AM - Magneto and prop for Model A (John Smoyer) 3. 06:21 AM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (amsafetyc@aol.com) 4. 08:05 AM - Milestone day in my Pietenpol build (Oscar Zuniga) 5. 08:08 AM - side door cut out for front seat (Oscar Zuniga) 6. 08:12 AM - side door cut out for front seat (Oscar Zuniga) 7. 08:16 AM - Re: Magneto and prop for Model A (Will42) 8. 08:30 AM - accident/incident investigations (Oscar Zuniga) 9. 09:08 AM - Re: accident/incident investigations (Jim Markle) 10. 09:53 AM - Re: A65 to A75 swap (Lagowski Morrow) 11. 10:12 AM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Bill Church) 12. 10:35 AM - Re: accident/incident investigations (Gary Boothe) 13. 11:09 AM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (amsafetyc@aol.com) 14. 01:12 PM - Re: door cutout (Tim Willis) 15. 01:12 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Jeff Boatright) 16. 01:42 PM - Re: side door cut out for front seat (Mark Roberts) 17. 02:08 PM - WP (helspersew@aol.com) 18. 02:24 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Ryan Mueller) 19. 02:55 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Jack Phillips) 20. 03:39 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (Jeff Boatright) 21. 04:03 PM - Re: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design (John Hofmann) 22. 05:09 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (shad bell) 23. 05:17 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Gary Boothe) 24. 05:17 PM - Piettie, in response to the faa's letter (shad bell) 25. 05:31 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Gene & Tammy) 26. 05:46 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Darrel Jones) 27. 06:06 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Wayne Bressler) 28. 06:42 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Rick Holland) 29. 06:49 PM - Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (motorbikemikexb9) 30. 07:10 PM - landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Oscar Zuniga) 31. 07:25 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 32. 07:33 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Wayne Bressler) 33. 07:37 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (mike) 34. 07:38 PM - Re Fuel vents (GR Hewitt) 35. 07:40 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (amsafetyc@aol.com) 36. 07:51 PM - Re: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (mike) 37. 08:04 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Mark Roberts) 38. 08:10 PM - Re: Re Fuel vents (Jeff Boatright) 39. 08:10 PM - Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday (Mark Roberts) 40. 08:10 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Gary Boothe) 41. 08:14 PM - Re: Re Fuel vents (Gary Boothe) 42. 08:54 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Wayne Bressler) 43. 08:58 PM - Re: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. (Wayne Bressler) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:31 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Axle welding From: helspersew@aol.com Looks good Gary!!=C2- One more milestone checked off. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL -----Original Message----- From: Gary Boothe Sent: Sat, Aug 8, 2009 8:05 pm Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight..... Cleaning your guns? That=99s a good way to keep your Better Half in line.. =C2- I had a fantastic day! Just finished ALL the welding on my straight axle (similar to Larry Williams=99). I=99ll paint tonight and inst all tomorrow. I cannot say how many months I have been fretting over this! =C2- Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear (13 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-li st-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 4:20 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: I hope the list is dead tonight..... =C2- ....because everyone is out flying the pants off of their Piets, or gettin g rides in Piets, or taking to the skies any which way they possibly can. My better half (and you that met her know that is a severe understatement ) is working this evening. I have spent some time cleaning firearms, and will spend some time cleaning our engine block later on. I hope everyone is having an enjoyable weekend! Ryan =C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www. matronics.com/contribution =C2- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:37:05 AM PST US From: John Smoyer Subject: Pietenpol-List: Magneto and prop for Model A Hi, Guys, Can anyone recommend good sources for a magneto and a prop to use with the Model A engine? Thanks. John Smoyer Hockessin, DE ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design From: amsafetyc@aol.com V2VsbCBpdHMgb2ZmaWNpYWwgRGFuIGhhcyBjaGVja2VkIHRoZSBsb3N0IHBhcGVycyBvZiBCZXIg bmVyZCBhbmQgcmVuZGVyZWQgdGhlIG9mZmljaWFsIG9waW5pb24uIA0KDQpBY3R1YWxseSwgSSB0 aG91Z2h0IHRoZSBmcm9udCBwaXQgaWRlYSB3b3VsZCBiZSBhIG5lYXQgbW9kaWZpY2F0aW9uIHNv IEkgZnJhbWVkIG9uZSBpbi4gDQoNClRoZSBtb3JlIEkgbG9va2VkIGF0IGl0IHRoZSBtb3JlIEkg bGlrZWQgaXQgaG93ZXZlciwgSSBjb3VsZCBub3QsIHdvdWxkIG5vdCBhbmQgZGlkIG5vdCBjdXQg dGhlIHVwcGVyIGxvbmdlcm9uLiBUaGUgdGhvdWdodCBvZiB3aGljaCBmcmlnaHRlbmVkIHRoZSBo ZWxsIG91dCBvZiBtZSBhbmQgc28gSSBhYmFuZG9uZWQgdGhlIGlkZWEgYW5kIGRlY2lkZWQgdG8g Z28gd2l0aCB0aGUgY29udmVudGlvbmFsIHdpc2RvbS4gTm8gY3V0dGluZyBzdHJ1Y3R1cmFsbHkg IGludGVncmFsIHBhcnRzICBmb3IgbWUuICBXaGVuIGEgcG90ZW50aWFsIHBhc3NlbmdlciBkb24n dCBmaXQgdGhleSBkb24ndCByaWRlLiBXaGljaCB3ZWxsIGV4cGxhaW5zIHdoeSBJIGhhdmUgeWV0 IHRvIGNhdGNoIGEgcmlkZSBpbiBteSAzIEJyb2RoZWFkcy4gSSBkb24ndCBmaXQgc28gSSBkb24n dCByaWRlLiBFbmQgb2Ygc3RvcnkuIA0KDQpJIHJlZnVzZSB0byBjb21wcm9taXNlIHNhZmV0eSBm b3IgYW55b25lIG9yIGFueXRoaW5nIQ0KDQpKdXN0IG15IHBvc2l0aW9uLiANCg0KSm9obiANClNl bnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJpem9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGhlbHNwZXJzZXdAYW9sLmNvbQ0KDQpEYXRlOiBTYXQsIDA4IEF1 ZyAyMDA5IDIwOjQ0OjEyIA0KVG86IDxwaWV0ZW5wb2wtbGlzdEBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29tPg0KU3Vi amVjdDogUGlldGVucG9sLUxpc3Q6IEVuZHVyaW5nIGF0dHJpYnV0ZXMgb2YgdGhlIFBpZXRlbnBv bCBkZXNpZ24NCg0KDQpHZW50bGVtZW4sIA0KDQpXaXRoIGFsbCB0aGlzIHRhbGsgYWJvdXQgZnJv bnQgY29ja3BpdCBkb29ycyBldGMsIEkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcywgYW4gYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgdGltZSwg dG8gdGFrZSB0aGUgb3Bwb3J0dW5pdHkgdG8gZXhwb3VuZCBvbiBvbmU/b2YgdGhlIGdyZWF0P2F0 dHJpYnV0ZXM/b2YgdGhlIFBpZXRlbnBvbCBkZXNpZ24uDQoNCiogRGlmZmljdWx0eSBvZiBlbnRy eS4gSW4gb3JkZXIgdG8gZ2V0IGludG8gdGhlIGZyb250IGNvY2twaXQsIG9uZSBtdXN0IGJlIHNv bWV3aGF0IG9mIGEgY29udG9ydGlvbmlzdC4gSW4gbXkgYWlycGxhbmUgKG5vdCB5ZXQgZmx5aW5n KSBJIGhhdmU/Y29uY2x1ZGVkIHVwb24gYSBudW1iZXIgb2Ygc3BlY2lmaWMgaW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb25z Lj8NCg0KMSkgQ2hvY2sgd2hlZWxzLiANCg0KMikgU3RlcCBvdmVyP2xlZnQtcmVhciB3aW5nIHN0 cnV0IGFuZCBicmFjZSB3aXJlIHdpdGggbGVmdCBmb290L2xlZy4gDQoNCjMpIFdoaWxlIGxpZnRp bmcgbGVmdCBmb290IGFuZCBsZWcsIHBsYWNlIGxlZnQgZm9vdCBvbiB0b3Agb2YgbGVmdCB0aXJl Lj9Vc2luZyBsZWZ0IGhhbmQsIGdyYXNwP2xlZnQtZnJvbnQgd2luZyBzdHJ1dC4gDQoNCjQpIFBs YWNlIHJpZ2h0IGhhbmQsIG9udG8gbGVmdC1oYW5kIGZyb250IGNvY2twaXQgbG9uZ2Vyb24uIFB1 bGwgYm9keSB3ZWlnaHQgZm9yd2FyZCw/d2l0aCBib3RoIGhhbmRzL2FybXMsIHBsYWNpbmcgZW50 aXJlIGJvZHkgd2VpZ2h0IG9udG8gbGVmdD9sZWcuIENvbnRpbnVpbmcgdG8gbGlmdCBib2R5IHdl aWdodCBmb3J3YXJkLCBhbmQgYWZ0ZXIgc2xpZ2h0P2hlc2l0YXRpb24gYXQgdGhlIHRvcCwgYmVn aW4gdG8gc2hpZnQgYm9keSB3ZWlnaHQgdG8gdGhlIHBvcnQgc2lkZSwgc28gYXMgdG8gYWxsb3cg b25lc2VsZiB0byBsaWZ0IHJpZ2h0IGxlZyB0byBzdWZmaWNpZW50IGhlaWdodD90byBhbGxvdyB0 byBzd2luZyByaWdodCBmb290IG92ZXIgdGhlIHRvcCBvZiB0aGUgbGVmdC1oYW5kIHBhc3Nlbmdl ciBjb2NrcGl0IGxvbmdlcm9uLCBhbGwtdGhlLXdoaWxlIGJlbmRpbmcgdGhlIGJvZHkgZm9yd2Fy ZCBpbnRvIGEgcXVpdGU/dW5hdHVyYWwgcG9zaXRpb24sIChob3BpbmcgdGhhdCBjcmFtcGluZyB3 aWxsIG5vdCBzZXQtaW4pIGFuZCBkb3duIG9udG8gdGhlIGZyb250IHBhc3NlbmdlciBzZWF0IGZy YW1lLiAoSSB3aWxsIGhhdmUgYSAicmVkIGRvdCIgcGxhY2VkIGluIHRoZSBhcHByb3ByaWF0ZSBz cG90IGFzIHRvIGhhdmUgYSAicGxhY2Ugb2YgcmVmZXJlbmNlIiB0bz9pbmZvcm0gdGhlIHBvdGVu dGlhbCBmcm9udCBzZWF0IHBhc3NlbmdlciB3aGVyZSB0aGUgY29ycmVjdD9wbGFjZW1lbnQgaXMs IHRvIHB1dCB0aGUgcmlnaHQgZm9vdCwgYXQgdGhpcyBzdGFnZSBvZiBlbnRyeSwgc2luY2UgbXkg c2VhdCBpcyB3b3ZlbiB3aGlja2VyLCBhbmQgY29uc2VxdWVudGx5IGlzIGtpbmQgb2Ygd2VhayBp biB0aGUgbWlkZGxlKS4NCg0KNSkgV2hpbGU/Y2hhbmdpbmcgYm9keSB3ZWlnaHQgb250byByaWdo dCBmb290LCBjb250aW51ZSB0byBzaGlmdCBib2R5IHdlaWdodCB0byBzdGFyYm9hcmQsIGJlaW5n IGNhcmVmdWwgYXMgdG8gbm90IGtub2NrIG9uZSdzIGhlYWQgaW50byB0aGU/ZG93bndhcmQtcHJv dHJ1ZGluZyBmdWVsIGdhdWdlICh0aGF0IGlzIG9idmlvdXNseSBpbiB0aGUgd2F5KSBhdCB0aGlz IHBvaW50IG9mIHRoZSBlbnRyeSBwcm9jZWR1cmUuIA0KDQo2KSBDb250aW51ZSBzaGlmdGluZyBi b2R5IHdlaWdodCB0byBzdGFyYm9hcmQsIGFuZD9wcm90cnVkZSBwYXNzZW5nZXIgaGVhZCBvdXQg cGFzdCAoYW5kIGluIGJldHdlZW4gYW5kIHRocm91Z2gpIHJpZ2h0LWhhbmQgY2FiYW5lIHN0cnV0 cywgdW50aWwgcG90ZW50aWFsIHBhc3NlbmdlciBoYXMgc2hpZnRlZCBzdWZmaWNpZW50IGJvZHkg d2VpZ2h0IG92ZXIgc28gaGUgKHNoZSkgaXMgYWJsZSB0byBsaWZ0IHRoZSBsZWZ0IGxlZyB1cCwg b3ZlciwgYW5kIGludG8gdGhlIGZyb250IGNvY2twaXQgZmxvb3IgYXJlYS4gT25jZSB0aGlzIGhh cyBiZWVuIGFjY29tcGxpc2hlZCwgdGhlIHBhc3NlbmdlciBjYW4gInNldHRsZSIgZG93biBpbnRv IHRoZSBmcm9udCBzZWF0LCBhd2FpdGluZyBoZWxwIGZyb20gdGhlIHBpbG90L2NyZXcsIHRvIGZh c3RlbiBhbGwgYXBwcm9wcmlhdGUgc2VhdCBiZWx0cyBldGMuDQo/DQpMZXQncyBub3QgZm9yZ2V0 LCB0aGF0IEJlcm5hcmQgKGhlIHByb25vdW5jZWQgaXQgIkJlci1uZXJkIikgbmV2ZXIsIGV2ZXIs P21lbnRpb25lZCB0aGlzIGRlc2lnbiBjaGFuZ2UuIEFzIHN1Y2gsIGl0IHdpbGwgbmV2ZXIgYmUg ImFwcHJvdmVkIi4NCg0KRGFuIEhlbHNwZXINClBvcGxhciBHcm92ZSwgSUwuDQoNCg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:05:01 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: Milestone day in my Pietenpol build Ben; it's quite a feeling, isn't it? The work seems to go faster and with more purpose once the airplane has a beating heart. One small suggestion, and you may have already done this but it wasn't evident in the photo- while doing engine tests, keep a fire extinguisher handy and out of range of the engine and spinning prop. Mine could have come in handy when I first started my A65 since my engine flooded frequently before I got the hang of starting it, and things do tend to leak when you're doing initial fitup. There are plenty of pictures and videos of fresh engine starts where a new project burnt to the ground. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC- A75 and Culver prop San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:08:10 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat Referencing the 55-year-old guy that I gave a ride to and that Tim mentioned, I want to clarify that the gentleman informed me that he had back and shoulder injuries, bad knees, and was a smoker. He had an inordinately difficult time climbing into my airplane due to his physical issues. It really isn't all that difficult. And to the matter of putting a red dot, "X", or other mark on the front seat where a passenger should land their foot when climbing in, the difficulty is that in that point of the maneuver, their head is well out the starboard side, and they cannot look down past the top longeron to see the seat. In cases like that, I generally help guide their foot to the proper place on the seat because they have no idea. The thing is, once a person has done it once or twice, they seem to slither in much more easily, all the sooner to get settled in and airborne. I have never had a passenger get out and say they'll never go up in a Piet again... most are ready and willing to go back up at the next offer of a ride and it will be much easier for them to climb in the second time around. Except for women, who always seem to need assistance in the form of some strategically-placed manual guidance, eh Mikee?? "Never disconcert the Ms.'s"- is that the new mantra? Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:12:50 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat As to the side door cutout, that entire side framing of the fuselage can be infilled with 1" thick polystyrene foam board and glassed both sides, a la KR. That treatment will provide VERY adequate strength and stiffness to the area where a door cutout is made. Normal fabric covering can then proceed and the fiberglass will only be visible inside the cockpits on the cutout side. I have no idea what the new load paths would be, but I'll wager that the cutout will no longer be the "soft" structural area of that side of the airplane. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:16:35 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Magneto and prop for Model A From: "Will42" J. Anderson of Cloudcars propellers (325-356-2810) can recommend a prop and build it too and he will work with you to find what you want/need. As for the magneto choice; there are lots of good mags out there and priced right if you look around (ebay always has lots of them listed). A four cylinder tractor mag with the correct rotation is what you need; also whether flange mount or base mount depending on your set-up. I would recommend a side drive rather than the end mount; it's much easier to get to if service is needed. You might want to talk to a magneto shop to see what mags still have service parts available if needed. I haven't tried this but I believe a nice side drive can be fashioned from a governor drive set-up. Will Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256775#256775 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:30:11 AM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations Mikee- it's interesting that you mention the cases that you have seen, and the hassles that Pieti (Lowell Frank) is going through. I thought for sure I was going to have to endure the same sort of grilling when 41CC went over on its nose. I researched the definition of "accident" and "incident" and I thought for sure that the situation with 41CC was an "accident" and that both Charlie (pilot) and I (owner) were in for some hell from the NTSB and FAA. Not so. Apparently the investigators didn't even care to come look at the airplane even though we didn't touch it after retrieving it from the field and moving it to the hangar. We sent pictures and someone from a local law enforcement agency came by to look at it, but the big boys didn't deem it serious enough to slap either me or Charlie. Strange to think that Lowell's incident was serious enough in their eyes to cause all this ruckus, yet the situation with 41CC was not. Carb ice stopped the engine, an off-field landing was made in a rough field, welds broke on the landing gear legs, collapsing the gear and putting the airplane on its nose and then over on its back. I dunno... sounds a little bit more like an "accident" than Lowell's broken bungee, no? I'm not asking that my case be reopened for investigation, so don't go turning me in!!! I just feel bad about Pieti. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:08:13 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations Maybe the difference is in the audience? When people have a big audience (10,000 EAA attendees) vs a small audience (a few cows and maybe one farmer?)....people sometimes change personalities, honesty, virtue, morals, integrity, etc...it's sad but we're all human after all. And I agree, I really feel bad about this whole thing.... -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Aug 9, 2009 10:28 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations > > > >Mikee- it's interesting that you mention the cases that you >have seen, and the hassles that Pieti (Lowell Frank) is going >through. I thought for sure I was going to have to endure >the same sort of grilling when 41CC went over on its nose. I >researched the definition of "accident" and "incident" and I >thought for sure that the situation with 41CC was an "accident" >and that both Charlie (pilot) and I (owner) were in for some >hell from the NTSB and FAA. Not so. Apparently the >investigators didn't even care to come look at the airplane >even though we didn't touch it after retrieving it from the >field and moving it to the hangar. We sent pictures and >someone from a local law enforcement agency came by to look at >it, but the big boys didn't deem it serious enough to slap >either me or Charlie. Strange to think that Lowell's incident >was serious enough in their eyes to cause all this ruckus, yet >the situation with 41CC was not. > >Carb ice stopped the engine, an off-field landing was made in >a rough field, welds broke on the landing gear legs, collapsing >the gear and putting the airplane on its nose and then over on >its back. I dunno... sounds a little bit more like an "accident" >than Lowell's broken bungee, no? > >I'm not asking that my case be reopened for investigation, so >don't go turning me in!!! I just feel bad about Pieti. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:39 AM PST US From: "Lagowski Morrow" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: A65 to A75 swap >From personal experience, flying without a cowling is a drag, and then some. That was what helped me wreck my left gear and prop last year. Be real careful flying without a cowling. Oscar is right about the barn door and vertical landing--Jim Lagowski ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oscar Zuniga" Sent: Saturday, August 08, 2009 8:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: A65 to A75 swap > > > A little update on my engine swap. Last weekend I got the > engine started and everything came up normally but the engine > developed an oil leak about the time I was ready to shut it > down anyway. Also had a very slow drip from the Curtis valve > on the gascolator and the prop was one bolt out of "clock" and > a bit out of track. > > Today I took care of all those squawks. Re-clocked and shimmed > the prop to bring it into track, replaced the Curtis drain valve > on the gascolator (DO NOT try to just replace the O-ring on the > nose of the valve... if it leaks, replace it). The oil leak > turned out to be at one of the oil gallery plugs at the front > of the engine and I think I'm eventually going to have to heli- > coil it because the threads on that side aren't great. Engine > started up just fine, runup was normal, and off we went to seat > the rings. Here are a couple of lessons learned. > > Performance figures will > not mean anything right now because the engine is very tight > and I flew the airplane with the cowling off, in order to have > everything where I could see it readily. If Dick Navratil can > fly his Rotec radial powered piet with no cowling, so can I! > And I also figured flying it without the cowling would provide > more drag and thus more load on the engine to help with seating > the rings. > > 1. In a slip (or even in straight flight), a bare Piet firewall > into the wind is more effective than flaps, a belly board, and > Precise Flight wing spoilers. In other words, it has the coefficient > of drag of a broadside barn door. My first approach to landing > was nearly vertical. > > 2. With power on, this engine/prop combo goes into the redline > VERY quickly when the nose goes down and revs build very readily. > Same for the airplane... nose down equals Vne very quickly unless > power is pulled off right now. It didn't do that with the 65. > > 3. (A) It gets VERY bumpy on an August afternoon. (B) The vertical > travel of the fuel needle on a Stromberg NAS3 carb is only about > 1/16" from full open to full shut. (C) When a Piet with a > Stromberg hits a big summer bump on downwind, the rapid vertical > change can bounce the float in the carb, making the engine > hiccup momentarily. (D) When cautiously breaking in a new engine > and it hiccups, it can make a Piet pilot's heart stop. I now > know this ;o) > > The engine is running strong and smooth, starts easily (but is > still very stiff), and promises to provide the airplane with a > real kick in the pants. The proof will come soon, as I put the > cowling back on and get more relaxed in the airplane where I > can put it through its paces. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC, A75 and Culver prop > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 18:17:00 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:32 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design From: "Bill Church" John, I think you better give that idea some more thought... Oh wait a minute. I agree with everything you said. Sorry, force of habit I guess. Bill C. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of amsafetyc@aol.com Sent: Sun 09/08/2009 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Well its official Dan has checked the lost papers of Ber nerd and rendered the official opinion. Actually, I thought the front pit idea would be a neat modification so I framed one in. The more I looked at it the more I liked it however, I could not, would not and did not cut the upper longeron. The thought of which frightened the hell out of me and so I abandoned the idea and decided to go with the conventional wisdom. No cutting structurally integral parts for me. When a potential passenger don't fit they don't ride. Which well explains why I have yet to catch a ride in my 3 Brodheads. I don't fit so I don't ride. End of story. I refuse to compromise safety for anyone or anything! Just my position. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Gentlemen, With all this talk about front cockpit doors etc, I think this, an appropriate time, to take the opportunity to expound on one?of the great?attributes?of the Pietenpol design. * Difficulty of entry. In order to get into the front cockpit, one must be somewhat of a contortionist. In my airplane (not yet flying) I have?concluded upon a number of specific instructions.? 1) Chock wheels. 2) Step over?left-rear wing strut and brace wire with left foot/leg. 3) While lifting left foot and leg, place left foot on top of left tire.?Using left hand, grasp?left-front wing strut. 4) Place right hand, onto left-hand front cockpit longeron. Pull body weight forward,?with both hands/arms, placing entire body weight onto left?leg. Continuing to lift body weight forward, and after slight?hesitation at the top, begin to shift body weight to the port side, so as to allow oneself to lift right leg to sufficient height?to allow to swing right foot over the top of the left-hand passenger cockpit longeron, all-the-while bending the body forward into a quite?unatural position, (hoping that cramping will not set-in) and down onto the front passenger seat frame. (I will have a "red dot" placed in the appropriate spot as to have a "place of reference" to?inform the potential front seat passenger where the correct?placement is, to put the right foot, at this stage of entry, since my seat is woven whicker, and consequently is kind of weak in the middle). 5) While?changing body weight onto right foot, continue to shift body weight to starboard, being careful as to not knock one's head into the?downward-protruding fuel gauge (that is obviously in the way) at this point of the entry procedure. 6) Continue shifting body weight to starboard, and?protrude passenger head out past (and in between and through) right-hand cabane struts, until potential passenger has shifted sufficient body weight over so he (she) is able to lift the left leg up, over, and into the front cockpit floor area. Once this has been accomplished, the passenger can "settle" down into the front seat, awaiting help from the pilot/crew, to fasten all appropriate seat belts etc. ? Let's not forget, that Bernard (he pronounced it "Ber-nerd") never, ever,?mentioned this design change. As such, it will never be "approved". Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:35:11 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations While at Brodhead, in a conversation with another tire-kicker like me, an individual was telling me about his aviation background. He as taking an FAA course, as I recall, and the subject matter was not popular with all the students. Their motto was, "Comply and graduate." That may apply here, too. "Gee, Newt...do you think if I study real hard I'll pass the test?" Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Markle Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations Maybe the difference is in the audience? When people have a big audience (10,000 EAA attendees) vs a small audience (a few cows and maybe one farmer?)....people sometimes change personalities, honesty, virtue, morals, integrity, etc...it's sad but we're all human after all. And I agree, I really feel bad about this whole thing.... -----Original Message----- >From: Oscar Zuniga >Sent: Aug 9, 2009 10:28 AM >To: Pietenpol List >Subject: Pietenpol-List: accident/incident investigations > > > >Mikee- it's interesting that you mention the cases that you >have seen, and the hassles that Pieti (Lowell Frank) is going >through. I thought for sure I was going to have to endure >the same sort of grilling when 41CC went over on its nose. I >researched the definition of "accident" and "incident" and I >thought for sure that the situation with 41CC was an "accident" >and that both Charlie (pilot) and I (owner) were in for some >hell from the NTSB and FAA. Not so. Apparently the >investigators didn't even care to come look at the airplane >even though we didn't touch it after retrieving it from the >field and moving it to the hangar. We sent pictures and >someone from a local law enforcement agency came by to look at >it, but the big boys didn't deem it serious enough to slap >either me or Charlie. Strange to think that Lowell's incident >was serious enough in their eyes to cause all this ruckus, yet >the situation with 41CC was not. > >Carb ice stopped the engine, an off-field landing was made in >a rough field, welds broke on the landing gear legs, collapsing >the gear and putting the airplane on its nose and then over on >its back. I dunno... sounds a little bit more like an "accident" >than Lowell's broken bungee, no? > >I'm not asking that my case be reopened for investigation, so >don't go turning me in!!! I just feel bad about Pieti. > >Oscar Zuniga >Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop >San Antonio, TX >mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com >website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design From: amsafetyc@aol.com Bill, true to form with the latent change of direction added for good measure. Full agreement may not be in your nature. That's not to say I didn't enjoy your post. You do have a reputation to uphold! John John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Bill Church" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design John, I think you better give that idea some more thought... Oh wait a minute. I agree with everything you said. Sorry, force of habit I guess. Bill C. do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of amsafetyc@aol.com Sent: Sun 09/08/2009 9:21 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Well its official Dan has checked the lost papers of Ber nerd and rendered the official opinion. Actually, I thought the front pit idea would be a neat modification so I framed one in. The more I looked at it the more I liked it however, I could not, would not and did not cut the upper longeron. The thought of which frightened the hell out of me and so I abandoned the idea and decided to go with the conventional wisdom. No cutting structurally integral parts for me. When a potential passenger don't fit they don't ride. Which well explains why I have yet to catch a ride in my 3 Brodheads. I don't fit so I don't ride. End of story. I refuse to compromise safety for anyone or anything! Just my position. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: helspersew@aol.com Subject: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Gentlemen, With all this talk about front cockpit doors etc, I think this, an appropriate time, to take the opportunity to expound on one?of the great?attributes?of the Pietenpol design. * Difficulty of entry. In order to get into the front cockpit, one must be somewhat of a contortionist. In my airplane (not yet flying) I have?concluded upon a number of specific instructions.? 1) Chock wheels. 2) Step over?left-rear wing strut and brace wire with left foot/leg. 3) While lifting left foot and leg, place left foot on top of left tire.?Using left hand, grasp?left-front wing strut. 4) Place right hand, onto left-hand front cockpit longeron. Pull body weight forward,?with both hands/arms, placing entire body weight onto left?leg. Continuing to lift body weight forward, and after slight?hesitation at the top, begin to shift body weight to the port side, so as to allow oneself to lift right leg to sufficient height?to allow to swing right foot over the top of the left-hand passenger cockpit longeron, all-the-while bending the body forward into a quite?unatural position, (hoping that cramping will not set-in) and down onto the front passenger seat frame. (I will have a "red dot" placed in the appropriate spot as to have a "place of reference" to?inform the potential front seat passenger where the correct?placement is, to put the right foot, at this stage of entry, since my seat is woven whicker, and consequently is kind of weak in the middle). 5) While?changing body weight onto right foot, continue to shift body weight to starboard, being careful as to not knock one's head into the?downward-protruding fuel gauge (that is obviously in the way) at this point of the entry procedure. 6) Continue shifting body weight to starboard, and?protrude passenger head out past (and in between and through) right-hand cabane struts, until potential passenger has shifted sufficient body weight over so he (she) is able to lift the left leg up, over, and into the front cockpit floor area. Once this has been accomplished, the passenger can "settle" down into the front seat, awaiting help from the pilot/crew, to fasten all appropriate seat belts etc. ? Let's not forget, that Bernard (he pronounced it "Ber-nerd") never, ever,?mentioned this design change. As such, it will never be "approved". Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:10 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: door cutout Oscar as a good idea with the foam and glass. The cutout may be reinforced like the rest of the plane, as well; for instance, with 1' thick ply or spruce for some of the infill, with ply gussets inboard of that, and of course the outside ply skin. It's plenty strong. As in the rest of the plane, the key is triangulation with diagonals and bonding with gussets. Tim in central TX ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:12:10 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design John, We've had people your size and larger in our front pit, so I'm not sure why you haven't been able to get a ride. In fact, our cockpits have an annoying amount of sheet aluminum cowling around them. I guess the builder was going for a look, or maybe he thought a tightly cowled pit would be warmer in the winter. It makes it that much more difficult to get in. In any event, we've had 6'2" 230 lb people in the front, so if I ever make it up your way, I'll give you a ride. Jeff ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:42:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat From: Mark Roberts I must agree with you there! And besides, door or no door, I will still get to fly! :o) So, it really depends on how badly the passenger wants to go with me!! :oD Mark On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 8:39 PM, Tim Willis wrote: > timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > Mark, > You can make the cutout strong enough. My point is that it is likely never > as strong as before the top longeron was cut, and it certainly weighs more. > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark Roberts > Sent: Aug 8, 2009 3:34 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: side door cut out for front seat > > Hey Guys, > > I know there is a set of plans (from Yesterday's Wings Aeroplane Works) > published that I saw from Mike Groah for a door in the passenger side. I was > under the belief it was engineered to be strong enough for the plane. > > Mark > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:43 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: WP From: helspersew@aol.com "You can beat him Waldo, with my monoplane" ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:24:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design From: Ryan Mueller This assumes that John's heft is the reason he has not yet had a ride..... :{ Just kidding! We had the pleasure of meeting John for the first time at Brodhead this year, and he was very friendly and we all had plenty of fun. We look forward to seeing you again next year John, if not sooner. Have a good evening, Ryan P.S.: And there will be creme puffs... do not archive On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 3:05 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > > John, > > We've had people your size and larger in our front pit, so I'm not sure why > you haven't been able to get a ride. In fact, our cockpits have an annoying > amount of sheet aluminum cowling around them. I guess the builder was going > for a look, or maybe he thought a tightly cowled pit would be warmer in the > winter. It makes it that much more difficult to get in. In any event, we've > had 6'2" 230 lb people in the front, so if I ever make it up your way, I'll > give you a ride. > > Jeff > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:20 PM PST US From: "Jack Phillips" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Jeff, If you've ever met John you'll realize that his size is just an excuse for not giving him a ride. There are other reasons... Jack Phillips NX899JP Do Not Archive! -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 4:06 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design John, We've had people your size and larger in our front pit, so I'm not sure why you haven't been able to get a ride. In fact, our cockpits have an annoying amount of sheet aluminum cowling around them. I guess the builder was going for a look, or maybe he thought a tightly cowled pit would be warmer in the winter. It makes it that much more difficult to get in. In any event, we've had 6'2" 230 lb people in the front, so if I ever make it up your way, I'll give you a ride. Jeff ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:39:14 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design Hey, now! None o' that. I met John. He SEEMED right enough... Allowances must be made for cheese intake and resultant output, but I figger that's all just part of the charm of the natives... > >Jeff, If you've ever met John you'll realize that his size is just an excuse >for not giving him a ride. There are other reasons... > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:44 PM PST US From: John Hofmann Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Enduring attributes of the Pietenpol design He's an inferior model but he'll suit our purposes! John Hofmann Vice-President, Information Technology The Rees Group, Inc. 2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800 Madison, WI 53718 Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150 Fax: 608.443.2474 Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com On Aug 9, 2009, at 5:38 PM, Jeff Boatright wrote: > > > > Hey, now! None o' that. I met John. He SEEMED right enough... > Allowances must be made for cheese intake and resultant output, but > I figger that's all just part of the charm of the natives... > >> > >> >> Jeff, If you've ever met John you'll realize that his size is just >> an excuse >> for not giving him a ride. There are other reasons... >> >> Jack Phillips >> NX899JP >> > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:13 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA.- They are usually just a bunch of gestapo se lf rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is. - A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa i s nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for t hem.- I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation rela ted (besides the letter of the law).- I think the same goes for the aircr aft-maintenance side of the FAA, worthless!- Most faa maintenance inspe ctors today are there because the sucked as mechanics.- This, of course i s my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic.- I know at one time many many years ago (while th e earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field (maybe?).- But that ain't the case anymore sonny. - Sincerly, You know who - P.S.- any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flyin g skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experia nce problems.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:32 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday Next time.don't hold back. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for them. I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation related (besides the letter of the law). I think the same goes for the aircraft maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This, of course is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny. Sincerly, You know who P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experiance problems. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:17:32 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: Piettie, in response to the faa's letter Mr Piettie Lowell, See if you can get one of those spring loaded boxing glo ves into an envelope (like in the old cartoons), and send it back to the FA A inspector.- With it send a letter- in response to his flight review l etter, and ask him what the hell he wants you to teach him during this flig ht review.- And then make sure it is in you Ford powered Pietenpol, and t hen see what in the hell he has to say!- I am just a pup myself at 31 yrs old, but it burns me to see the govt. run things so bass akwords as they d o.- You know a lifetime more than the desk pilot who would review your sk ills. - Give, Em Hell, Shad=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:31:20 PM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday Aw, come on guys, the FAA and the IRS are here to help ya. Gene in Very hot Tennessee ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary Boothe To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday Next time.don't hold back. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for them. I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation related (besides the letter of the law). I think the same goes for the aircraft maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This, of course is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny. Sincerly, You know who P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experiance problems. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 08/09/09 18:10:00 ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:38 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday Aw, Shad, don't sugar-coat it. Tell us how you really feel. Back in the old days around here in Northern California our local FAA guy used to build more airplanes than the local EAA folks. Boy, do we ever miss him. And what's up with having to hire an engineer and send reams of paperwork to Kansas to get a "field approval" to make an old airplane safer. "We're from the FAA and we're here to help." Chilling words. On a cheerier note, our local tower guys were our guest speakers at our last EAA meeting. One of them is actually building his own light sport A/C, so there may be a glimmer of hope. All the best to the Pietenpol crowd from Sonoma, CA! Darrel shad bell wrote: > To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo > self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an > airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said > that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ > years working for them. I think the job requirements for being in the > faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical > about anything aviation related (besides the letter of the law). I > think the same goes for the aircraft maintenance side of the FAA, > worthless! Most faa maintenance inspectors today are there because > the sucked as mechanics. This, of course is my own generalized > oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a > mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the earth was > still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in > the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny. > > Sincerly, You know who > > P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world > flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real > world experiance problems. > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:06:09 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday Gene, That Tennessee heat must really be getting to your head! :) Do not archive Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Aug 9, 2009, at 8:30 PM, "Gene & Tammy" wrote: > Aw, come on guys, the FAA and the IRS are here to help ya. > Gene in Very hot Tennessee > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gary Boothe > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:15 PM > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday > > Next timedon=99t hold back > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner- > pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday > > To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of > gestapo self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what > an airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, > said that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he > spent 20+ years working for them. I think the job requirements for > being in the faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know > anything practical about anything aviation related (besides the > letter of the law). I think the same goes for the aircraft > maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance > inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This, > of course is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in > aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many > many years ago (while the earth was still cooling) the faa guys were > the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field (maybe?). But that > ain't the case anymore sonny. > > Sincerly, You know who > > P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world > flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real > world experiance problems. > > > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > http://forums.matronics.com > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.matr onics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > - Release Date: 08/09/09 18:10:00 > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday From: Rick Holland Sorry to hear about the FAA fiasco Lowell, its enough to make a pilot look seriously into going part 103 for a next aircraft build project. I have been thinking seriously about a Legal Eagle XL for my next project. Good luck Rick On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 1:27 AM, Jared Yates wrote: > > Lowell, I've been through what you are going through, and I must say that > it > is can be an unpleasant experience. You aren't by chance enrolled in the > AOPA legal services plan, are you? I found first-hand that FAA inspectors > can try to overstep their power and duties quite regularly. Having someone > to ask "can they ask me that" made it much easier for me. > > It is a privilege that they have to re-evaluate any airman, at the airman's > expense. It stinks, but you'll have to take it seriously! If they don't > give you a satisfactory result to the checkride, you won't be able to fly > anymore. Respond before the deadline, and keep in mind that you don't have > to take the checkride within 10 days, you just have to respond. In my > case, > it was actually a month or two after the accident before the re-evaluation > ride. > > Also note that you aren't obliged to answer questions about the past. The > FAA inspectors know that they don't have the privilege of interrogating you > to try and get evidence for a violation. In my case they were trying to > use > the reevaluation ride as a chance to do just that. I spent a couple of > hours dodging questions about the accident flight and requesting that the > inspector stick to general questions about my qualifications to hold my > certificate. It was a diplomatic tightrope to say the least. I hope that > you end up with a good FSDO and inspector, and that your experience was > better than mine. Let them know that you are going to have trouble finding > a tailwheel airplane to rent, and that should buy you some time. You might > also consider hiring a specialized aviation lawyer if you are not in the > legal services plan, depending on how important it is to you that you > continue to hold your certificate. You can also find the inspector's > handbook online and read about what the boundries are for the checkride, as > far as what they should and shouldn't be asking you about. > > >From this point on, take notes about who you talk to at the FAA/NTSB, > including the date and time, and a brief summary of the discussion. In my > case my file fell between the cracks on their end, and they tried to accuse > me of avoiding the checkride, when they had actually not been returning my > phone calls. This is the kind of thing you might be up against! The folks > at both the NTSB and the FAA are not your friend. As for the rest of you, > think seriously about that legal services plan! As some have said, this > type of thing can happen to any of us. > > Hang in there! You can do this, but be smart about it. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pieti > Lowell > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 10:02 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday > > > > You fellows ,I don't think you know the half of it, I got a registered > letter late Friday , dated Thursday, saying that I have 10 days from the > letter's date to respond to FAA regarding practically redoing my complete > Private License Tests learning over, from getting a tail dragger to be > retested , check ride , Area operations III,, IV etc, Where does one begin > ? > so far dozens of phone calls just to find an Instructor with a conventional > gear plane, and when asked if it would be OK to take my check-ride in a > Pietenpol HA only certified craft with ALL paper work on the plane > complete. and it goes on and on. Still no airplanes yet available and I > don't blame anyone to get involved , what a hassle and with over 2000 tail > dragger hours. > Pieti Lowell > > Wednesday during the Homebuilt Review Showcase (where they shafted one of > our three Pietenpol guys--Jack Phillips by cutting one of the Piets out of > the event) the Rotec powered Junior Ace from Poplar Grove nearly lost it in > similar wind conditions when landing. Three times he nearly had his wing > tips in the turf--scary stuff but he managed to add power, continue down > the > runway and get a second chance. > > I was astonished at the ineptitude of the EAA/FAA/and law enforcement > people > who kept Lowell and his plane out on the runway for well over an hour. > First off---Lowell's well being, once that was established to not be an > issue they should have cleared off and talked with him elsewhere if they > needed to. I should know better--if the gov't is involved they will take > the least practical path to a conclusion. > > Mike C.[/quote] > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256592#256592 > > -- Rick Holland Castle Rock, Colorado "Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad" ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 06:49:00 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. From: "motorbikemikexb9" Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on my private pilots license as well. To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good places to find information that will help me with my build. Some admediate concerns are: what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together. Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:10:01 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday I'll tell you another good one. Last year I got to fly the EA-6B Prowler simulator at Whidbey Naval Air Station. As I sat in the left seat of the sim with the throttles in my left hand and stick in my right, he voice in the headphones was the simulator operator, up in a darkened room somewhere. My buddy Maj. Kyle "Itchy" Rash was the right seater and my instructor. Incidentally, Itchy is up for promotion to LtCol next month, so the beer will soon be flowing. On my second or third attempt at landing the "Prowler" on the deck of a carrier at sea, the voice in the headphones asked, "flying left seat, what do you normally fly?" to which I responded, "ahhh, you probably don't know the airplane but it's an experimental single-engine, two-place high winger called a Pietenpol Air Camper". Silence, followed by, "I've always wanted to build one but I'm six foot four and don't think I'd fit. It's a great little airplane. Fly your final to the carrier deck just like you'd fly a short and soft field in the Piet. Give it a try." I nailed the next landing. There are some good folks out there on the other end of the radio, and I'll bet there are still some good folks in the FAA and NTSB too. We just need to get them into a Piet and when we're done flying, sit them in a chair outside the hangar some evening, project "The Great Waldo Pepper" on the side of the hangar wall, and hand them a beer. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:17 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. Welcome to the best place for the best information on your intended build. There are DVDs available from fellow builders. Mike Cuy has a really good one along with other Piet builders. The books by Tony Bengellis are a must for the builders library. The plans are available through the pietenpol family so they are easily gotten and would recommend you join the BPA for the news letter. You just missed the Brodhead gathering where you can see the piets up close talk to the builders and get some really great advice while stealing ideas. Who knows with the number of piets in Illinois you can visit some in progress of building and get a chance to ride in some already built. The folks you'll meet on this board and in person in Brodhead are some of the best folks you'll ever meet most are friendly and ready to lend advice. Building a Piet is rewarding on to itself and the journey is spectacular plus you'll end up with a great airplane and a bunch of new friends. I think you made 2 wise choices on in building the Piet and the second was to come here. Enjoy the adventure John message dated 8/9/2009 9:49:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: "motorbikemikexb9" Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m! y private pilots license as well. To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good places to find information that will help me with my build. Some admediate concerns are: what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together. Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:07 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. Mike, Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my phone... Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with the original build article and "plans". With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)... Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth the cost savings. And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher what's actually being said on this list. Wayne Bressler Jr. Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning! Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" wrote: > > > > Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m! > y private pilots license as well. > > To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any > good places to find information that will help me with my build. > > Some admediate concerns are: > what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? > > Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my > plane comes together. > > Thanks, Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 07:37:54 PM PST US From: "mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. Hi Mike, I'm your confusing email address doppelganger, bike.mike. One of my bikes is a motorbike (BMW R100R) but the rest are human powered. Most of the guys on the list are fair-minded, reasonable people. However, there are a few of the "type A" sort who believe that a genuine "Pietenpol" Aircamper is made of wood, is powered by a Model A engine, and is built from a set of plans approved by Bernard H. Pietenpol (never say "Bernie"), signed by draftsman Orrin Hoopman, and sold by the Pietenpol family. Most of this crowd is extremely helpful, freely giving of their combined centuries of experience building and flying this magnificent flying machine. In the heartland of America you have access to many brilliant examples of Piets built by every sort of craftsman; visit them and you will acquire a list of lifelong friends. As to your specific questions, there will be many answers from the various camps regarding the merits of wood over steel, Model A over Corvair over Continental over Rotec, and even the merits of Home Depot over Wicks over Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. Be prepared to do some of your own research. Welcome to the coolest list-serve in the world. Mike Hardaway -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of motorbikemikexb9 Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. --> Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m! y private pilots license as well. To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good places to find information that will help me with my build. Some admediate concerns are: what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together. Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:13 PM PST US From: "GR Hewitt" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re Fuel vents Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel quantity gage Will this double as a fuel vent without any probs? Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 07:40:34 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. From: amsafetyc@aol.com Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm the one doing a great stunt. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. Mike, Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my phone... Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with the original build article and "plans". With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)... Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth the cost savings. And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher what's actually being said on this list. Wayne Bressler Jr. Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning! Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" wrote: > > > > Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m! > y private pilots license as well. > > To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any > good places to find information that will help me with my build. > > Some admediate concerns are: > what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? > > Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my > plane comes together. > > Thanks, Mike > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 07:51:48 PM PST US From: "mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday Frankly, most of the FAA employees I have met are themselves pilots and/or mechanics, most with considerably more than 15 years of experience, who love airplanes and aviation the business of keeping it all safe. Several are airplane builders. But then I have only received the business end of one "inquiry" (inquisition really, but I learned a lot about density altitude). Any large collection of people is going to have a few fools and the FAA is not exempt. Shad, I'm sorry that your experiences have only brought those exceptions to the surface. Mike (one of many) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 5:09 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday To All Pilots, F%&# the FAA. They are usually just a bunch of gestapo self rightoius power hungry wenies who don't even know what an airplane is. A fellow Piet builder who I won't mention his name, said that the faa is nothing but a rotation of a__ holes, and he spent 20+ years working for them. I think the job requirements for being in the faa is heartbeat, no soul, and you must not know anything practical about anything aviation related (besides the letter of the law). I think the same goes for the aircraft maintenance side of the FAA, worthless! Most faa maintenance inspectors today are there because the sucked as mechanics. This, of course is my own generalized oppinion, formed from 15+ years in aviation, both as a pilot, and a mechanic. I know at one time many many years ago (while the earth was still cooling) the faa guys were the experianced, and sharpest guys in the field (maybe?). But that ain't the case anymore sonny. Sincerly, You know who P.S. any FAA guys reading this, go study airplanes, and real world flying skill, instead of therory, law and textbook answers to real world experiance problems. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. From: Mark Roberts Welcome Mike! As a newbie myself here I am just chipping in to say that I ave asked a rash of questions and never been chewed out once, even though some (many?) were repeats from previous posts. There is an achive that can be searched to get a few answers from, and that was where I was directed a couple of times for more in-depth answers that had been chewed on a while before I came on board. I too am an R/C builder for 40 years, and alas, have finally graduated to the real deal. In fact (horror of horrors), tomorrow a friend of mine is coming over to clean out the entire lot of my R/C stuff. I'll have a very bare garage, as just about every corner of the place is stuffed with R/C materials of one sort or another. However, I am too big to fit into any of those, and I need the room and the money for Piet building! Oh well, if I had seen the Great Waldo Pepper movie (sorry) I'd know a line that would address that problem :o) I guess I need to get over to BlockBusters this week (now that I know where all those lines have come from!) Welcome to a great bunch of guys from all over the place! Mark On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 7:40 PM, wrote: > > Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm the one > doing a great stunt. > > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wayne Bressler > > Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 22:28:04 > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little > help. > > > wayne@taildraggersinc.com> > > Mike, > > Step one is to read all the books by Tony Bingelis. They are > available everywhere, but the easiest place to get them is either > Aircraft Spruce or Wicks. I'd post a link, but I'm typing on my > phone... > > Next step is to get a complete set of plans from the Pietenpol > family. Also, the EAA sells the old Flying and Glider Manuals with > the original build article and "plans". > > With regards to hardware store nuts and bolts, I think Mike Cuy said > it best, "you can use whatever hardware store parts you want, but you > won't be taking any oc my family flying". (or something like that)... > Point is, use aircraft grade hardware abc materials. It's not worth > the cost savings. > > And the last piece of advice I'll give is this: memorize every line > from The Great Waldo Pepper. You'll need the knowledge to decipher > what's actually being said on this list. > > Wayne Bressler Jr. > > Not building yet. Still dreaming and planning! > > Taildraggers, Inc. > taildraggersinc.com > > Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. > > On Aug 9, 2009, at 9:47 PM, "motorbikemikexb9" < > motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net > > wrote: > > motorbikemikexb9@comcast.net > > > > > > > Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. > > I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love > > their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open > > cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper > > for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them > > up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build > > one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood > > working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale > > R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but > > feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about > > airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what > > is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This > > will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very > > safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any > > certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m! > > y private pilots license as well. > > > > To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any > > good places to find information that will help me with my build. > > > > Some admediate concerns are: > > what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: > > Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain > > grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type > > of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full > > scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any > > local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? > > > > Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the > > forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my > > plane comes together. > > > > Thanks, Mike > > > > > > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:05 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re Fuel vents That setup worked on our Piet for years. However, I don't think it's a good idea. We now have another hole in the cap, fitted with an aluminum tube bent 90 degrees, facing forward. Cheap redundancy. >Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel quantity gage > >Will this double as a fuel vent without any probs? >Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: landing at Oshkosh on Sunday From: Mark Roberts Hey Oscar: I'm 6'4" 250lbs... I hope I can fit! (I'm working on the diet... So far it's been the 'High Weight Gain Diet' promoted by Michael Moore... but who listens to him!?) Mark On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 7:09 PM, Oscar Zuniga wrote: > > > I'll tell you another good one. Last year I got to fly the EA-6B > Prowler simulator at Whidbey Naval Air Station. As I sat in the left > seat of the sim with the throttles in my left hand and stick in my > right, he voice in the headphones was the simulator operator, up > in a darkened room somewhere. My buddy Maj. Kyle "Itchy" Rash was > the right seater and my instructor. Incidentally, Itchy is up for > promotion to LtCol next month, so the beer will soon be flowing. > > On my second or third attempt at landing the "Prowler" on the deck > of a carrier at sea, the voice in the headphones asked, "flying left > seat, what do you normally fly?" to which I responded, "ahhh, you > probably don't know the airplane but it's an experimental > single-engine, two-place high winger called a Pietenpol Air Camper". > > Silence, followed by, "I've always wanted to build one but I'm six > foot four and don't think I'd fit. It's a great little airplane. > Fly your final to the carrier deck just like you'd fly a short and > soft field in the Piet. Give it a try." > > I nailed the next landing. > > There are some good folks out there on the other end of the radio, > and I'll bet there are still some good folks in the FAA and NTSB > too. We just need to get them into a Piet and when we're done > flying, sit them in a chair outside the hangar some evening, project > "The Great Waldo Pepper" on the side of the hangar wall, and > hand them a beer. > > Oscar Zuniga > Air Camper NX41CC- A75 with Culver prop > San Antonio, TX > mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com > website at http://www.flysquirrel.net > > ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:07 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. Mike, Forget about what everyone else has said. Just get a copy of "The Great Waldo Pepper," then quote lines from it at every opportunity. Everything you need to know about flying and building is within this script... "Son? Son? Would you mind propping me, Son?" Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of motorbikemikexb9 Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 6:48 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. Hello everyone. I'm Mike from Palatine IL. I'm taking the plunge. I've been a fan of the Air Camper for several years now. I Love their classic look and feel, as well as the "top wing / open cockpit" design. I'm planning to get started building a Air Camper for myself very soon. I was up at Oshkosh last week and seeing them up close finally nudged me over the edge into deciding to build one. I have a pretty solid background in metal fabrication and wood working. I have also scratch built and flown dozens of giant scale R/C's over the past 10 years. I do know alot about airplanes but feel I still have alot to learn. I'm mostly concerned about airframe strength, Proper covering technique and figuring out what is needed to get a airframe / engine built safe and certified. This will be my first full scale build. All of my R/C's have been very safe good flying machines but I have never had to go through any certification process to fly them. I'm currently working on m! y private pilots license as well. To sum things up I'm looking for any information, pointers, or any good places to find information that will help me with my build. Some admediate concerns are: what plans to use?, what do you guys think is a better route to go: Wood or steel tube Fuse? What engines can be used? Are certain grades of fasteners or hardware recomended or required for this type of build. where is a good place to find books / DVD's covering full scale aircraft Building / covering / certification? Are their any local Air Camper builders near the Chicago/ Milwaukee area? Thanks In advance for any help. I plan to be a regular here on the forum and hopefully meet many of you in person "as or after" my plane comes together. Thanks, Mike Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=256853#256853 ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:14 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re Fuel vents .been working on Taylorcrafts for over 60 years! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) Intend to use a cork float on a wire thru the fuel cap as a fuel quantity gage Will this double as a fuel vent without any probs? Thanks Graham Hewitt in Oz ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:12 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. And that's why you're getting all the glory. Do not archive Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete. On Aug 9, 2009, at 10:40 PM, amsafetyc@aol.com wrote: > > Let's get this straight she's just driving, you're just flying. I'm > the one doing a great stunt. > > > John > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 08:58:01 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Hello I'm new here. I'm looking for a little help. "Oh no, sir. All the money I make is going toward the building of a brand new airplane for air acrobatics." Do not archive Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com > However, I am too big to fit into any of those, and I need the room > and the money for Piet building! > > Oh well, if I had seen the Great Waldo Pepper movie (sorry) I'd know > a line that would address that problem :o) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.