Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 09:45 AM - OT - Oscar Brand (wayne@taildraggersinc.com)
2. 09:45 AM - Re: OT - Oscar Brand (wayne@taildraggersinc.com)
3. 02:39 PM - spiral grain definition (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
4. 02:49 PM - Re: Help Video, Engine Hoisting (Darrel Jones)
5. 03:01 PM - Bill Rewey (dwilson)
6. 03:31 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Ryan Mueller)
7. 04:44 PM - Re: Help Video, Engine Hoisting (Gary Boothe)
8. 05:07 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Jack)
9. 05:07 PM - Re: spiral grain definition (Gary Boothe)
10. 06:11 PM - Re: spiral grain definition ()
11. 06:51 PM - Re: (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
12. 06:52 PM - spiral grain definition (Oscar Zuniga)
13. 07:16 PM - off topic- aircraft in movies (Oscar Zuniga)
14. 07:16 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Jeff Boatright)
15. 07:50 PM - Re: off topic- aircraft in movies (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
16. 08:25 PM - Re: spiral grain definition (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
17. 09:11 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Gary Boothe)
18. 09:25 PM - Re: off topic- aircraft in movies (mike)
Message 1
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| Subject: | OT - Oscar Brand |
Hello, good people!
I'm looking for the link to the Oscar Brand recordings. Someone shared
them a couple of years ago, and I can't seem to find the link. Does
anybody have that url handy?
Thanks,
-Wayne Bressler
wayne@taildraggersinc.com
www.taildraggersinc.com
/"The Little Wheel Goes in the Back"/
Message 2
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| Subject: | re: OT - Oscar Brand |
Nevermind! I found what I was looking for!
http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/
-Wayne
Message 3
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| Subject: | spiral grain definition |
The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because
it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain appe
ars to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect vertic
al grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets specifica
tions (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain? In theor
y=2C if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out the l
ength of the piece=2C shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't kn
ow if this makes sense or not. On the other hand=2C if the grain does slop
e (even 1" in 15")=2C the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (sp
iral grain) which is the point you work the formula for spiral grain???
Sorry=2C I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar materi
al and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and join
ted the edge.
Tom B.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Help Video, Engine Hoisting |
Gary,
Be sure to leave a little sand in the tail to counterbalance the weight
of all that engine up front. You'll also never need to tie the tail down
in a high wind.
That is one beautiful looking engine!
Darrel
Gary Boothe wrote:
> OK...OK. I was just kidding...
>
> I really did use the block and tackle. The whole process took less than 5
> minutes!! As is, that engine and I weigh about the same, so I tested the
> attachment at the beam with my own weight. The hoisting apparatus is rated
> at 250#'s.
>
> It doesnt take very much more weight to tip it up on its nose, so I put a
> plastic case of tire chains in the tail area.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (13 ribs down)
>
Message 5
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http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098
Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list.
DAW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259205#259205
Message 6
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Thanks for sharing the news. Sounds like Bill did a very good job with the
forced landing.
Ryan
do not archive
On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 5:01 PM, dwilson <marwilson@charter.net> wrote:
>
> http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098
>
> Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list.
>
> DAW
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259205#259205
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Help Video, Engine Hoisting |
Thanks, Darrel! It's amazing how many distractions I can find to keep me
from making ribs! Advice for Newbies:
MAKE THE RIBS FIRST! Building the rest of the plane is just too dog-gone
fun!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrel Jones
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help Video, Engine Hoisting
Gary,
Be sure to leave a little sand in the tail to counterbalance the weight
of all that engine up front. You'll also never need to tie the tail down
in a high wind.
That is one beautiful looking engine!
Darrel
Gary Boothe wrote:
> OK...OK. I was just kidding...
>
> I really did use the block and tackle. The whole process took less than 5
> minutes!! As is, that engine and I weigh about the same, so I tested the
> attachment at the beam with my own weight. The hoisting apparatus is rated
> at 250#'s.
>
> It doesn't take very much more weight to tip it up on its nose, so I put a
> plastic case of tire chains in the tail area.
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (13 ribs down.)
>
Message 8
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Thank god Bill and passengers are ok. What a fine gentleman and great
pilot. Bill gave me my only Piet ride.
TAKE CARE BILL!
Jack
www.textors.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | spiral grain definition |
Tom,
The "1 in 15" grain slope cannot occur at any place in the board, not just
the ends. If it does occur at the end, and if you can cut it off, you have a
good board. Viewing the end of the board shows two things, that the board
was "quarter sawn" (no flat grain), and that you have the minimum 6 growth
rings / inch. Without a doubt, your spars need to be the very best wood on
the whole plane! If you have any doubts, get a replacement. Best of luck to
you..
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
BRANT
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:32 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition
The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because
it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain
appears to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect
vertical grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets
specifications (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain?
In theory, if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out
the length of the piece, shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't
know if this makes sense or not. On the other hand, if the grain does slope
(even 1" in 15"), the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (spiral
grain) which is the point you work the formula for spiral grain???
Sorry, I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar material
and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and jointed
the edge.
Tom B.
Message 10
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| Subject: | spiral grain definition |
Well here is my 2 cents. The end grain should be vertical, 90 degrees to the long dimension, on a 2x4 that would be the 4" side. that does not mean it would meet the 1" in 15" run out. The ends can have perfectly vertical grain but it could have some run along the length. There are several good pubs and articles you can access on line to illistrate it better. Try the EAA website at www.eaa.org.
Of course I could be totally wrong also.
Rodney
---- Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
> Tom,
>
>
>
> The "1 in 15" grain slope cannot occur at any place in the board, not just
> the ends. If it does occur at the end, and if you can cut it off, you have a
> good board. Viewing the end of the board shows two things, that the board
> was "quarter sawn" (no flat grain), and that you have the minimum 6 growth
> rings / inch. Without a doubt, your spars need to be the very best wood on
> the whole plane! If you have any doubts, get a replacement. Best of luck to
> you..
>
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (13 ribs down.)
>
> _____
>
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE
> BRANT
> Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:32 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition
>
>
>
> The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because
> it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain
> appears to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect
> vertical grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets
> specifications (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain?
> In theory, if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out
> the length of the piece, shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't
> know if this makes sense or not. On the other hand, if the grain does slope
> (even 1" in 15"), the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (spiral
> grain) which is the point you work the formula for spiral grain???
>
> Sorry, I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar material
> and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and jointed
> the edge.
>
> Tom B.
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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For all we experimental aircraft builders, fliers and would be designers a
little something to wet the whistle of creativity.
Enjoy
John
_Rare Aircraft - United States_
(http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/UNITED%20STATES.htm)
Message 12
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| Subject: | spiral grain definition |
I know it's not rainy and cold outside and it's not the
right time for theoretical discussions, but I'll start
one just the same.
Regarding the spacing of growth rings (tightness of
grain), we want a minimum number of rings per inch so
that we have the minimum required strength. When the
rings are too far apart, the wood is not uniformly
strong because the wood between the rings is too soft.
No problem understanding that.
Regarding grain orientation, my understanding of the
strength of wood relative to the grain is that the wood
has essentially the same strength parallel and perpendicular
to the grain but not the same dimensional stability. That
is, changes in moisture content tend to deflect the wood
differently parallel to the grain as perpendicular to it.
Thus, with nice tight grained wood that is aligned with
the axes of our spar (or longeron, or whatever), the wood
does not tend to twist or kick when its moisture content
changes with changes in humidity, or if it does, it is
uniformly in the direction of the long axis and does not
tend to twist or warp the wood or pull apart the glue joints.
With spiral grained wood, or wood that does not have the
grain perpendicular to the direction of loading, changes
in moisture content will warp the structural member and
introduce distortion or tend to pull glue joints apart.
Is this the only reason we care about the grain orientation?
As I understand it, it's not about strength.
Thanks for any enlightenment any of you can add. And, if
I may state relative to Bill Rewey, "there but for the
grace of God go you or I". Bill did not lose his flying
skills overnight; no, not at all. Circumstances arise
during flight that call for our best judgement, but sometimes
the circumstances win. Not a reflection of the pilot's skills,
in many cases. Bill will need the support of his pilot friends
to help him evaluate his next move. There will be plenty of
the "other kind" of people trying to make that move for him,
like they are with Pieti Lowell. Let's stand by them.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 13
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| Subject: | off topic- aircraft in movies |
Okay, so call me an enjoyer of chick flicks. I have
just watched two of my favorites over the last couple
of weeks, "The English Patient" and "Out of Africa".
Both feature DeHavilland biplanes but I'm not certain
if they are Tiger Moths or Gypsy Moths. Whatever the
case, the flying scenes are breathtaking, and the
musical scores that go with those scenes are truly
memorable. The cockpit close-ups are pretty hokey, in
that the silk scarves sort of float dreamily out of
the open cockpits when we know that they would be
whipping around like crazy, but that's OK.
There. I've shown my feminine side ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
Message 14
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Boy, some of the commenters over at that article really chap my hide.
>
>http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098
>
>Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list.
>
>DAW
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: off topic- aircraft in movies |
Oscar Oscar Oscar what are we going to do with you? At that rate soon
you'll be singing or whistling show tunes while you build. the only redeeming
quality was the airplanes.
stop that man before its Iron Eagle
Quick someone show him a war film before he turns to the dark side and
passes the go no go point on his take off role.
In a message dated 8/23/2009 10:21:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
--> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Okay, so call me an enjoyer of chick flicks. I have
just watched two of my favorites over the last couple
of weeks, "The English Patient" and "Out of Africa".
Both feature DeHavilland biplanes but I'm not certain
if they are Tiger Moths or Gypsy Moths. Whatever the
case, the flying scenes are breathtaking, and the
musical scores that go with those scenes are truly
memorable. The cockpit close-ups are pretty hokey, in
that the silk scarves sort of float dreamily out of
the open cockpits when we know that they would be
whipping around like crazy, but that's OK.
There. I've shown my feminine side ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
Message 16
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| Subject: | spiral grain definition |
Gary and others=2C
Thanks for the responses on spiral grain=2C but I'm not sure you're underst
anding my question - By no means am I trying to shortcut anything or use su
bstandard
material - I'm just confused about the requirements - hopefully the followi
ng will clarify my question.
Both boards I purchased have well over 6 grains per inch. The both have ve
rtical end grain (1 has grain about 15-20 degrees from vertical - anything
under 45 deg. is within specifications). Both have met the 1 in 15 runout
rule (more like 1 in 30 worst case) - this is the grain slope as measured o
n the face (widest part) of the board. So based on this=2C all is good.
Where I get fuzzy is reading the EAA book "Wood". They show an example pie
ce which has end grain nearing 45 deg. and due to this=2C it also has an ed
ge grain. This is the first time I mentioned edge grain. This is where th
ey say something to the affect of 'if the face grain runs out 1 in 20 and t
he edge grain runs out 1 in 16=2C then you must use a formula to determine
actual slope because this is a spiral grain condition'.
The point I'm trying to make is where the grain is near perfectly vertical
- Does it also need to have edge grain? If so=2C I don't see how this is p
hysically possible except at the point where the face grain runs out.
I don't know if this makes any sense - Tomorrow I can try to clarify with p
ictures or drawings or something.
Thanks=2C
Tom B.
From: gboothe5@comcast.net
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition
Tom=2C
The =931 in 15=94 grain slope
cannot occur at any place in the board=2C not just the ends. If it does occ
ur at
the end=2C and if you can cut it off=2C you have a good board. Viewing the
end of
the board shows two things=2C that the board was =93quarter sawn=94 (no
flat grain)=2C and that you have the minimum 6 growth rings / inch. Without
a
doubt=2C your spars need to be the very best wood on the whole plane! If yo
u have
any doubts=2C get a replacement. Best of luck to you=85.
Gary Boothe
Cool=2C Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail
done=2C Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down=85)
From:
owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELL
E BRANT
Sent: Sunday=2C August 23=2C 2009 2:32
PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral
grain definition
The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the
lumber yard because it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece
with vertical grain appears to have "spiral grain" on the edge.
The ends are nearly perfect vertical grain. What I don't understand is if
the vertical grain meets specifications (1" slope in 15") do I even
need to worry about edge grain? In theory=2C if the end grain on both ends
are perfectly vertical through-out the length of the piece=2C shouldn't the
edge
not really have a grain? Don't know if this makes sense or not. On
the other hand=2C if the grain does slope (even 1" in 15")=2C the grain
on the edge should also have a slope or (spiral grain) which is the point y
ou
work the formula for spiral grain???
Sorry=2C I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar materi
al and
one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and jointed the
edge.
Tom B.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.
comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution
Message 17
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I'm with you, Jeff...sorry I read some of those. But it reminded me of this:
"I hate the guys who criticize,
And minimize the other guys,
Whose enterprise makes them rise,
Above the guys who criticize."
Best wishes to Mr. Rewey!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff
Boatright
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey
Boy, some of the commenters over at that article really chap my hide.
>
>http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098
>
>Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list.
>
>DAW
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | off topic- aircraft in movies |
Oscar,
There's help for you. Not a war film but definitely a MAN flick is "Never
Cry Wolf" whose flying scenes have everything you like about those girly
films, even a DeHavilland airplane (Beaver), and none of that sissy-kissy
stuff.
Mike Hardaway
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:44 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic- aircraft in movies
Oscar Oscar Oscar what are we going to do with you? At that rate soon you'll
be singing or whistling show tunes while you build. the only redeeming
quality was the airplanes.
stop that man before its Iron Eagle
Quick someone show him a war film before he turns to the dark side and
passes the go no go point on his take off role.
In a message dated 8/23/2009 10:21:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
taildrags@hotmail.com writes:
Okay, so call me an enjoyer of chick flicks. I have
just watched two of my favorites over the last couple
of weeks, "The English Patient" and "Out of Africa".
Both feature DeHavilland biplanes but I'm not certain
if they are Tiger Moths or Gypsy Moths. Whatever the
case, the flying scenes are breathtaking, and the
musical scores that go with those scenes are truly
memorable. The cockpit close-ups are pretty hokey, in
that the silk scarves sort of float dreamily out of
the open cockpits when we know that they would be
whipping around like crazy, but that's OK.
There. I've shown my feminine side ;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not ======================== Use the ties Day
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