---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 08/23/09: 18 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 09:45 AM - OT - Oscar Brand (wayne@taildraggersinc.com) 2. 09:45 AM - Re: OT - Oscar Brand (wayne@taildraggersinc.com) 3. 02:39 PM - spiral grain definition (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 4. 02:49 PM - Re: Help Video, Engine Hoisting (Darrel Jones) 5. 03:01 PM - Bill Rewey (dwilson) 6. 03:31 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Ryan Mueller) 7. 04:44 PM - Re: Help Video, Engine Hoisting (Gary Boothe) 8. 05:07 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Jack) 9. 05:07 PM - Re: spiral grain definition (Gary Boothe) 10. 06:11 PM - Re: spiral grain definition () 11. 06:51 PM - Re: (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 12. 06:52 PM - spiral grain definition (Oscar Zuniga) 13. 07:16 PM - off topic- aircraft in movies (Oscar Zuniga) 14. 07:16 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Jeff Boatright) 15. 07:50 PM - Re: off topic- aircraft in movies (AMsafetyC@aol.com) 16. 08:25 PM - Re: spiral grain definition (TOM MICHELLE BRANT) 17. 09:11 PM - Re: Bill Rewey (Gary Boothe) 18. 09:25 PM - Re: off topic- aircraft in movies (mike) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:13 AM PST US From: "wayne@taildraggersinc.com" Subject: Pietenpol-List: OT - Oscar Brand Hello, good people! I'm looking for the link to the Oscar Brand recordings. Someone shared them a couple of years ago, and I can't seem to find the link. Does anybody have that url handy? Thanks, -Wayne Bressler wayne@taildraggersinc.com www.taildraggersinc.com /"The Little Wheel Goes in the Back"/ ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:20 AM PST US From: "wayne@taildraggersinc.com" Subject: Pietenpol-List: re: OT - Oscar Brand Nevermind! I found what I was looking for! http://www.edselmotors.com/oscarbrand/ -Wayne ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:46 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain appe ars to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect vertic al grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets specifica tions (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain? In theor y=2C if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out the l ength of the piece=2C shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't kn ow if this makes sense or not. On the other hand=2C if the grain does slop e (even 1" in 15")=2C the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (sp iral grain) which is the point you work the formula for spiral grain??? Sorry=2C I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar materi al and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and join ted the edge. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:49:19 PM PST US From: Darrel Jones Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help Video, Engine Hoisting Gary, Be sure to leave a little sand in the tail to counterbalance the weight of all that engine up front. You'll also never need to tie the tail down in a high wind. That is one beautiful looking engine! Darrel Gary Boothe wrote: > OK...OK. I was just kidding... > > I really did use the block and tackle. The whole process took less than 5 > minutes!! As is, that engine and I weigh about the same, so I tested the > attachment at the beam with my own weight. The hoisting apparatus is rated > at 250#'s. > > It doesnt take very much more weight to tip it up on its nose, so I put a > plastic case of tire chains in the tail area. > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down) > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:40 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey From: "dwilson" http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098 Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list. DAW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259205#259205 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:31:13 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey From: Ryan Mueller Thanks for sharing the news. Sounds like Bill did a very good job with the forced landing. Ryan do not archive On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 5:01 PM, dwilson wrote: > > http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098 > > Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list. > > DAW > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259205#259205 > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:00 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Help Video, Engine Hoisting Thanks, Darrel! It's amazing how many distractions I can find to keep me from making ribs! Advice for Newbies: MAKE THE RIBS FIRST! Building the rest of the plane is just too dog-gone fun! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrel Jones Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Help Video, Engine Hoisting Gary, Be sure to leave a little sand in the tail to counterbalance the weight of all that engine up front. You'll also never need to tie the tail down in a high wind. That is one beautiful looking engine! Darrel Gary Boothe wrote: > OK...OK. I was just kidding... > > I really did use the block and tackle. The whole process took less than 5 > minutes!! As is, that engine and I weigh about the same, so I tested the > attachment at the beam with my own weight. The hoisting apparatus is rated > at 250#'s. > > It doesn't take very much more weight to tip it up on its nose, so I put a > plastic case of tire chains in the tail area. > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (13 ribs down.) > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:32 PM PST US From: "Jack" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey Thank god Bill and passengers are ok. What a fine gentleman and great pilot. Bill gave me my only Piet ride. TAKE CARE BILL! Jack www.textors.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition Tom, The "1 in 15" grain slope cannot occur at any place in the board, not just the ends. If it does occur at the end, and if you can cut it off, you have a good board. Viewing the end of the board shows two things, that the board was "quarter sawn" (no flat grain), and that you have the minimum 6 growth rings / inch. Without a doubt, your spars need to be the very best wood on the whole plane! If you have any doubts, get a replacement. Best of luck to you.. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE BRANT Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain appears to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect vertical grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets specifications (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain? In theory, if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out the length of the piece, shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't know if this makes sense or not. On the other hand, if the grain does slope (even 1" in 15"), the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (spiral grain) which is the point you work the formula for spiral grain??? Sorry, I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar material and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and jointed the edge. Tom B. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:17 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition Well here is my 2 cents. The end grain should be vertical, 90 degrees to the long dimension, on a 2x4 that would be the 4" side. that does not mean it would meet the 1" in 15" run out. The ends can have perfectly vertical grain but it could have some run along the length. There are several good pubs and articles you can access on line to illistrate it better. Try the EAA website at www.eaa.org. Of course I could be totally wrong also. Rodney ---- Gary Boothe wrote: > Tom, > > > > The "1 in 15" grain slope cannot occur at any place in the board, not just > the ends. If it does occur at the end, and if you can cut it off, you have a > good board. Viewing the end of the board shows two things, that the board > was "quarter sawn" (no flat grain), and that you have the minimum 6 growth > rings / inch. Without a doubt, your spars need to be the very best wood on > the whole plane! If you have any doubts, get a replacement. Best of luck to > you.. > > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, Ca. > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > (13 ribs down.) > > _____ > > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELLE > BRANT > Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 2:32 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition > > > > The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because > it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain > appears to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect > vertical grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets > specifications (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain? > In theory, if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out > the length of the piece, shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't > know if this makes sense or not. On the other hand, if the grain does slope > (even 1" in 15"), the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (spiral > grain) which is the point you work the formula for spiral grain??? > > Sorry, I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar material > and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and jointed > the edge. > > Tom B. > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:51:49 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: For all we experimental aircraft builders, fliers and would be designers a little something to wet the whistle of creativity. Enjoy John _Rare Aircraft - United States_ (http://rareaircraf1.greyfalcon.us/UNITED%20STATES.htm) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:52:21 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition I know it's not rainy and cold outside and it's not the right time for theoretical discussions, but I'll start one just the same. Regarding the spacing of growth rings (tightness of grain), we want a minimum number of rings per inch so that we have the minimum required strength. When the rings are too far apart, the wood is not uniformly strong because the wood between the rings is too soft. No problem understanding that. Regarding grain orientation, my understanding of the strength of wood relative to the grain is that the wood has essentially the same strength parallel and perpendicular to the grain but not the same dimensional stability. That is, changes in moisture content tend to deflect the wood differently parallel to the grain as perpendicular to it. Thus, with nice tight grained wood that is aligned with the axes of our spar (or longeron, or whatever), the wood does not tend to twist or kick when its moisture content changes with changes in humidity, or if it does, it is uniformly in the direction of the long axis and does not tend to twist or warp the wood or pull apart the glue joints. With spiral grained wood, or wood that does not have the grain perpendicular to the direction of loading, changes in moisture content will warp the structural member and introduce distortion or tend to pull glue joints apart. Is this the only reason we care about the grain orientation? As I understand it, it's not about strength. Thanks for any enlightenment any of you can add. And, if I may state relative to Bill Rewey, "there but for the grace of God go you or I". Bill did not lose his flying skills overnight; no, not at all. Circumstances arise during flight that call for our best judgement, but sometimes the circumstances win. Not a reflection of the pilot's skills, in many cases. Bill will need the support of his pilot friends to help him evaluate his next move. There will be plenty of the "other kind" of people trying to make that move for him, like they are with Pieti Lowell. Let's stand by them. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 PM PST US From: Oscar Zuniga Subject: Pietenpol-List: off topic- aircraft in movies Okay, so call me an enjoyer of chick flicks. I have just watched two of my favorites over the last couple of weeks, "The English Patient" and "Out of Africa". Both feature DeHavilland biplanes but I'm not certain if they are Tiger Moths or Gypsy Moths. Whatever the case, the flying scenes are breathtaking, and the musical scores that go with those scenes are truly memorable. The cockpit close-ups are pretty hokey, in that the silk scarves sort of float dreamily out of the open cockpits when we know that they would be whipping around like crazy, but that's OK. There. I've shown my feminine side ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:16:06 PM PST US From: Jeff Boatright Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey Boy, some of the commenters over at that article really chap my hide. > >http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098 > >Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list. > >DAW > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:55 PM PST US From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic- aircraft in movies Oscar Oscar Oscar what are we going to do with you? At that rate soon you'll be singing or whistling show tunes while you build. the only redeeming quality was the airplanes. stop that man before its Iron Eagle Quick someone show him a war film before he turns to the dark side and passes the go no go point on his take off role. In a message dated 8/23/2009 10:21:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: --> Pietenpol-List message posted by: Oscar Zuniga Okay, so call me an enjoyer of chick flicks. I have just watched two of my favorites over the last couple of weeks, "The English Patient" and "Out of Africa". Both feature DeHavilland biplanes but I'm not certain if they are Tiger Moths or Gypsy Moths. Whatever the case, the flying scenes are breathtaking, and the musical scores that go with those scenes are truly memorable. The cockpit close-ups are pretty hokey, in that the silk scarves sort of float dreamily out of the open cockpits when we know that they would be whipping around like crazy, but that's OK. There. I've shown my feminine side ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not archive ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:33 PM PST US From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition Gary and others=2C Thanks for the responses on spiral grain=2C but I'm not sure you're underst anding my question - By no means am I trying to shortcut anything or use su bstandard material - I'm just confused about the requirements - hopefully the followi ng will clarify my question. Both boards I purchased have well over 6 grains per inch. The both have ve rtical end grain (1 has grain about 15-20 degrees from vertical - anything under 45 deg. is within specifications). Both have met the 1 in 15 runout rule (more like 1 in 30 worst case) - this is the grain slope as measured o n the face (widest part) of the board. So based on this=2C all is good. Where I get fuzzy is reading the EAA book "Wood". They show an example pie ce which has end grain nearing 45 deg. and due to this=2C it also has an ed ge grain. This is the first time I mentioned edge grain. This is where th ey say something to the affect of 'if the face grain runs out 1 in 20 and t he edge grain runs out 1 in 16=2C then you must use a formula to determine actual slope because this is a spiral grain condition'. The point I'm trying to make is where the grain is near perfectly vertical - Does it also need to have edge grain? If so=2C I don't see how this is p hysically possible except at the point where the face grain runs out. I don't know if this makes any sense - Tomorrow I can try to clarify with p ictures or drawings or something. Thanks=2C Tom B. From: gboothe5@comcast.net Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition Tom=2C The =931 in 15=94 grain slope cannot occur at any place in the board=2C not just the ends. If it does occ ur at the end=2C and if you can cut it off=2C you have a good board. Viewing the end of the board shows two things=2C that the board was =93quarter sawn=94 (no flat grain)=2C and that you have the minimum 6 growth rings / inch. Without a doubt=2C your spars need to be the very best wood on the whole plane! If yo u have any doubts=2C get a replacement. Best of luck to you=85. Gary Boothe Cool=2C Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done=2C Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down=85) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of TOM MICHELL E BRANT Sent: Sunday=2C August 23=2C 2009 2:32 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: spiral grain definition The wood I brought home is difficult to examine at the lumber yard because it is rough sawn. What I thought was a nice piece with vertical grain appears to have "spiral grain" on the edge. The ends are nearly perfect vertical grain. What I don't understand is if the vertical grain meets specifications (1" slope in 15") do I even need to worry about edge grain? In theory=2C if the end grain on both ends are perfectly vertical through-out the length of the piece=2C shouldn't the edge not really have a grain? Don't know if this makes sense or not. On the other hand=2C if the grain does slope (even 1" in 15")=2C the grain on the edge should also have a slope or (spiral grain) which is the point y ou work the formula for spiral grain??? Sorry=2C I'm just confused and cautious on what to be using for spar materi al and one of my board is in question now that I've planed it down and jointed the edge. Tom B. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics. comhttp://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:11:20 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey I'm with you, Jeff...sorry I read some of those. But it reminded me of this: "I hate the guys who criticize, And minimize the other guys, Whose enterprise makes them rise, Above the guys who criticize." Best wishes to Mr. Rewey! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion Tail done, Fuselage on gear (13 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Boatright Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 6:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Bill Rewey Boy, some of the commenters over at that article really chap my hide. > >http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/463098 > >Wanted to share this news with everyone on the list. > >DAW > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:13 PM PST US From: "mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: off topic- aircraft in movies Oscar, There's help for you. Not a war film but definitely a MAN flick is "Never Cry Wolf" whose flying scenes have everything you like about those girly films, even a DeHavilland airplane (Beaver), and none of that sissy-kissy stuff. Mike Hardaway _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 7:44 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: off topic- aircraft in movies Oscar Oscar Oscar what are we going to do with you? At that rate soon you'll be singing or whistling show tunes while you build. the only redeeming quality was the airplanes. stop that man before its Iron Eagle Quick someone show him a war film before he turns to the dark side and passes the go no go point on his take off role. In a message dated 8/23/2009 10:21:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, taildrags@hotmail.com writes: Okay, so call me an enjoyer of chick flicks. I have just watched two of my favorites over the last couple of weeks, "The English Patient" and "Out of Africa". Both feature DeHavilland biplanes but I'm not certain if they are Tiger Moths or Gypsy Moths. Whatever the case, the flying scenes are breathtaking, and the musical scores that go with those scenes are truly memorable. The cockpit close-ups are pretty hokey, in that the silk scarves sort of float dreamily out of the open cockpits when we know that they would be whipping around like crazy, but that's OK. There. I've shown my feminine side ;o) Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net do not ======================== Use the ties Day ================================================ - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS ================================================ - List Contribution Web Site sp; ================================================== _____ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.