Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - Re: Fuselage building and material;exelente (Robert Ray)
2. 12:39 AM - Re: Fuselage building and material;exelente (Robert Ray)
3. 03:56 AM - Re: Re: Markle-Helsper visit (Gene & Tammy)
4. 04:46 AM - Re: Fuselage building and material (Ryan Mueller)
5. 05:16 AM - 85th anniversary of the Pietenpol...... (Lawrence Williams)
6. 05:41 AM - Re: Fuselage building and material (Doug Dever)
7. 07:01 AM - Re: deadstick flying (Ross Alexander)
8. 07:56 AM - Re: deadstick flying (chase143)
9. 08:08 AM - portable tie downs (Dan Yocum)
10. 09:58 AM - Re: Engine question, 0-235 (shad bell)
11. 10:21 AM - portable tie down suggestions (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
12. 10:21 AM - Re: Fuselage building and material;exelente (Bill Church)
13. 10:58 AM - Jumbo Fuselage (stephen labash)
14. 11:11 AM - Re: spiral grain definition (Dan Yocum)
15. 11:22 AM - Re: Engine question (Ed G.)
16. 11:42 AM - Re: Flying behind a silent Corvair (Dan Yocum)
17. 11:46 AM - Re: portable tie down suggestions (Paul N. Peckham)
18. 11:54 AM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Ryan Mueller)
19. 11:59 AM - thermals in a Piet (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
20. 12:01 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
21. 12:06 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
22. 12:26 PM - Re: thermals in a Piet (Doug Dever)
23. 01:16 PM - Re: thermals in a Piet (Dan Yocum)
24. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Dan Yocum)
25. 02:10 PM - Re: thermals in a Piet (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
26. 02:10 PM - Re: Interesting Altimeter [was: Re: Re: skid ball] (Dan Yocum)
27. 02:28 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Jack Phillips)
28. 02:45 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
29. 02:45 PM - Re: Interesting Altimeter [was: Re: Re: skid ball] (Ryan Mueller)
30. 03:37 PM - Re: wood packages (Aircraft Spruce Info)
31. 03:50 PM - wood struts - test sample (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
32. 03:54 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Jeff Boatright)
33. 04:08 PM - Re: Re: wood packages (Wayne Bressler)
34. 04:35 PM - Re: Re: wood packages (Tim White)
35. 05:20 PM - Re: wood struts - test sample (amsafetyc@aol.com)
36. 05:21 PM - Re: Re: wood packages (Michael Groah)
37. 05:21 PM - Wood packages (helspersew@aol.com)
38. 05:37 PM - Re: wood struts - test sample (Mike Tunnicliffe)
39. 05:51 PM - Re: Re: wood packages (Ryan Mueller)
40. 06:12 PM - ASSCO,inc (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
41. 06:12 PM - Suggested product (amsafetyc@aol.com)
42. 06:21 PM - Re: ASSCO,inc (Jeff Boatright)
43. 06:37 PM - Re: Interesting Altimeter [was: Re: Re: skid ball] (Dan Yocum)
44. 06:38 PM - Re: ASSCO,inc (Ryan Mueller)
45. 06:38 PM - ACS- wood packages (helspersew@aol.com)
46. 06:54 PM - ASSCO mistakes---continually ongoing (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
47. 07:24 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Gary Boothe)
48. 07:50 PM - Re: wood struts - test sample (amsafetyc@aol.com)
49. 08:39 PM - Re: Suggested product (Gary Boothe)
50. 08:53 PM - Re: Suggested product (K5YAC)
51. 09:05 PM - Re: Suggested product (Ryan Mueller)
52. 09:07 PM - Re: Re: portable tie down suggestions (Steve Ruse)
53. 09:10 PM - Re: Suggested product (Ryan Mueller)
54. 09:41 PM - Re: ASSCO,inc (Steve Ruse)
55. 09:52 PM - Re: Fuselage building and materialokume ply; (jorge lizarraga)
56. 10:11 PM - Re: Fuselage building and materialokume ply; (Bill Church)
57. 10:28 PM - Re: Re: Suggested product (Gary Boothe)
58. 10:54 PM - Re: Re: Suggested product (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building and material;exelente |
In the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can buy it
for a buck a board
foot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birch although not boil proof
it's stronger and more
flexible than 1088 Okume, probably twice as strong per deminsion and it's
CHEAP.
The epoxy I'm using will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil
tested the natural
wood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry about i
s
not so
much a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over time. I have a
piece of baltic
birch on a truck topper I built it's been exposed to rain several times and
hasn't delaminated yet.
It's shock resistance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate marin
e
plywood
strength in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was
built of
Okume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a little
cheaper
than the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more durable and less
likly to rot
than either okume or birch.
I would not use anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on other
projects
and I think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are spliced.
If you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and there yo
u
will
learn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fiber glas
s
it is
a very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give a much smoother
finnish than DF.
my 02 cents worth
Russell
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>wrot
e:
> ups tanks for all you inform i used in my plane birch aircraft plywood
> mm. buy in spruse but the last buy shiping chargers is almost the same
> amount the wood????if you have thoses scrap pises i like tonow if you lik
e
> selmy those .
>
>
> --- On *Tue, 8/25/09, brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
> <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:35 AM
>
> I have to agree with Gary=85.we have a MacBeath Hardwood here in SLC, U
T
> and the prices are great I got my Spruce and ply and I don=92t have to pa
y
> shipping costs.
>
>
> Brian
>
> SLC, UT
>
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary Boothe
> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:39 AM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
>
>
> Jorge,
>
>
> All the 1/8=94 plywood on my project is Marine Mahogany which I purchased
> locally. In fact, I just found a new supplier in the San Francisco Bay Ar
ea
> that is far cheaper. The last sheet I bought from MacBeath Hardwood was
> $25!! If you just need some scraps for making gussets for your tail, let
me
> know.
>
>
> Gary Boothe
>
> Cool, Ca.
>
> Pietenpol
>
> WW Corvair Conversion
>
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>
> (13 ribs down=85)
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *jorge lizarraga
> *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 9:37 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
>
>
> hi im jorge from hanford ca, in these moment i folow thw nex step tp buil
d
> my piet is the tail section stare whit the stavilizer and look you mail i
s
> bery nice to have okume plywood sprus sale for the same size 98 a pise 4X
8FT
> IF YOU NOW SOME GUYS BUILD THE SIDE COVER WHIT THESE WOOD YOUNOW . tanks
for
> you mail and seyou nex
> --- On *Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 9:17 AM
>
> Regarding the wedge blocks, I believe they are only required at the two
> locations shown, as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some build
ers
> have opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other locations, to
> avoid water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
>
>
> Regarding plywood, one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is tha
t
> it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues. This will
> prevent the plies from delaminating, should the wood somehow become soake
d
> with water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade plywood for the
> fuselage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume i
s a
> mahogany-like tropical wood). While it is not quite as strong as Aircraft
> ply made of Birch, it is apparently strong enough for this purpose, and i
s
> manufactured using waterproof (also boilproof) glues. In addition to the
> lower cost, it is also lighter (in weight, as well as color) than Birch,
and
> available in 4' x 8' sheets.
>
>
> A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
>
>
> http://www.noahsmarine.com/
>
> http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>
>
> Bill C.
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-List*
>
> *et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> *llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
>
> _________________
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> * *
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> * *
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> *
> *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> **
>
> * *
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piete
npol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
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>
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>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building and material;exelente |
One more thing I would not use Okume unless I coated it with epoxy, it's
soft
and you can dent it with your finger nail, it however soaks epoxy like a
sponge
and this increases it's side hardness and abrasion resistance.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> In the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can buy it
> for a buck a board
> foot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birch although not boil proo
f
> it's stronger and more
> flexible than 1088 Okume, probably twice as strong per deminsion and it's
> CHEAP.
> The epoxy I'm using will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil
> tested the natural
> wood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry about
> is not so
> much a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over time. I have a
> piece of baltic
> birch on a truck topper I built it's been exposed to rain several times a
nd
> hasn't delaminated yet.
> It's shock resistance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate
> marine plywood
> strength in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was
> built of
> Okume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a litt
le
> cheaper
> than the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more durable and les
s
> likly to rot
> than either okume or birch.
> I would not use anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on other
> projects
> and I think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are splice
d.
> If you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and there
> you will
> learn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fiber
> glass it is
> a very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give a much smoothe
r
> finnish than DF.
>
> my 02 cents worth
>
> Russell
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>> ups tanks for all you inform i used in my plane birch aircraft plywoo
d
>> mm. buy in spruse but the last buy shiping chargers is almost the same
>> amount the wood????if you have thoses scrap pises i like tonow if you li
ke
>> selmy those .
>>
>>
>> --- On *Tue, 8/25/09, brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
>> <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:35 AM
>>
>> I have to agree with Gary=85.we have a MacBeath Hardwood here in SLC,
UT
>> and the prices are great I got my Spruce and ply and I don=92t have to p
ay
>> shipping costs.
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> SLC, UT
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Gary Boothe
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:39 AM
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
>>
>>
>>
>> Jorge,
>>
>>
>>
>> All the 1/8=94 plywood on my project is Marine Mahogany which I purchase
d
>> locally. In fact, I just found a new supplier in the San Francisco Bay A
rea
>> that is far cheaper. The last sheet I bought from MacBeath Hardwood was
>> $25!! If you just need some scraps for making gussets for your tail, let
me
>> know.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gary Boothe
>>
>> Cool, Ca.
>>
>> Pietenpol
>>
>> WW Corvair Conversion
>>
>> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>>
>> (13 ribs down=85)
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
>> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *jorge lizarrag
a
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 24, 2009 9:37 PM
>> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> *Subject:* RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> hi im jorge from hanford ca, in these moment i folow thw nex step tp bui
ld
>> my piet is the tail section stare whit the stavilizer and look you mail
is
>> bery nice to have okume plywood sprus sale for the same size 98 a pise 4
X8FT
>> IF YOU NOW SOME GUYS BUILD THE SIDE COVER WHIT THESE WOOD YOUNOW . tanks
for
>> you mail and seyou nex
>> --- On *Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>* wrote:
>>
>>
>> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
>> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
>> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 9:17 AM
>>
>> Regarding the wedge blocks, I believe they are only required at the two
>> locations shown, as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some buil
ders
>> have opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other locations, to
>> avoid water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding plywood, one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is th
at
>> it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues. This wil
l
>> prevent the plies from delaminating, should the wood somehow become soak
ed
>> with water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade plywood for the
>> fuselage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume
is a
>> mahogany-like tropical wood). While it is not quite as strong as Aircraf
t
>> ply made of Birch, it is apparently strong enough for this purpose, and
is
>> manufactured using waterproof (also boilproof) glues. In addition to the
>> lower cost, it is also lighter (in weight, as well as color) than Birch,
and
>> available in 4' x 8' sheets.
>>
>>
>>
>> A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.noahsmarine.com/
>>
>> http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> Bill C.
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pie
tenpol-List*
>>
>> *et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> *llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>>
>> _________________
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> * *
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>> *
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>>
>> **
>>
>> * *
>>
>> *
>>
>> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Piet
enpol-List
>> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
>> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>> *
>>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>> *
>>
>>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Markle-Helsper visit |
I've heard that road kill vulture taste just like chicken!
Gene
----- Original Message -----
From: "Clif Dawson" <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 10:50 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Markle-Helsper visit
>
> Are you sure that was chicken in the bucket?
>
> Clif
>
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Markle-Helsper visit
>
>
>>
>> Yea but Dan hasn't counted his fingers yet. Wait till he finds out he's a
>> few short.
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259623#259623
>>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:07:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building and material |
If you figure out how much more ply you will need for the airplane, and just
save up and buy it one fell swoop that would reduce the impact of the
shipping charge. The shipping is expensive, but in the overall cost of how
much you will ultimately spend to build the airplane, it's not that much.
Just out of curiosity, how bad can the freight charge be when you are only
240 miles from Aircraft Spruce's warehouse in Corona?
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:13 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>wrote:
> ho im in the same dilema bery $$$$$$$$$$cost for plywood and shipingif you
> now somthin about the okume plywood i whis to now if some one use these for
> cover fuselajo or parts
>
> --- On *Tue, 8/25/09, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Tuesday, August 25, 2009, 6:09 AM
>
> Thank you Bill. Any idea if it is safe to do the side and bottom sheets
> in pieces as opposed to 6 foot long lengths? Aircraft Spruce is going to
> stick me with a trucking fee, (about $95.00 I believe) to ship 5 pounds of
> plywood because of the length!
>
> --- On *Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 12:17 PM
>
> Regarding the wedge blocks, I believe they are only required at the two
> locations shown, as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some builders
> have opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other locations, to
> avoid water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
>
> Regarding plywood, one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is that
> it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues. This will
> prevent the plies from delaminating, should the wood somehow become soaked
> with water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade plywood for the
> fuselage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume is a
> mahogany-like tropical wood). While it is not quite as strong as Aircraft
> ply made of Birch, it is apparently strong enough for this purpose, and is
> manufactured using waterproof (also boilproof) glues. In addition to the
> lower cost, it is also lighter (in weight, as well as color) than Birch, and
> available in 4' x 8' sheets.
>
> A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
>
>
> http://www.noahsmarine.com/
> http://www.boulterplywood.com/
>
> Bill C.
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> =nofollow <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List%0A=nofollow>>http://forums.matronics.com
>
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> " rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
> llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
>
> *
>
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>
Message 5
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| Subject: | 85th anniversary of the Pietenpol...... |
My son-in-law-should -be there with his newly completed Bakeng Deuce ve
rsion of the Pietenpol Air Camper for the 85th!
-
Since I've put the new (model "B") carb on my engine I've broken into the l
ower 60's cruise club. After a few more flights to really get a good base-l
ine, I'll install my shiney new Lion Speed head and see if I can approach t
he magic 70 mph number. I'm not too sure that going that fast won't suck th
e air right out of my lungs but I'll let you all know.......if I survive.
-
Larry=0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | Fuselage building and material |
Most lumber yards can order AA marine ply if you ask and you don't pay ship
ping. Yellow poplar is plentiful here in Ohio which is what I will probabl
y build with except spars which will be Doug fir. I can get AA VG Doug fir
locally. Has to be ordered=2C but again no shipping. Gets expensive to s
hip a 15ft piece of spruce. Alnost doubles the price of th wood. Helps wh
en you have a friend that owns a specialty llumber yard though. I used Dou
g fir in my addition because you can't get spf lumber over 20ft. and I can
get Doug fir up to 32ft anything over 20ft is not kiln dried and is shippe
d green. Any idea what a green 26ft 2x12 weighs? A LOT! But=2C I digress.
Just sold my Sonex plans...getting ready to order piet plans
Doug Dever
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
From: rmueller23@gmail.com
If you figure out how much more ply you will need for the airplane=2C and j
ust save up and buy it one fell swoop that would reduce the impact of the s
hipping charge. The shipping is expensive=2C but in the overall cost of how
much you will ultimately spend to build the airplane=2C it's not that much
. Just out of curiosity=2C how bad can the freight charge be when you are o
nly 240 miles from Aircraft Spruce's warehouse in Corona?
Ryan
On Wed=2C Aug 26=2C 2009 at 12:13 AM=2C jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.c
om> wrote:
ho im in the same dilema bery $$$$$$$$$$cost for plywood and shipingif you
now somthin about the okume plywood i whis to now if some one use these for
cover fuselajo or parts
--- On Tue=2C 8/25/09=2C Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
From: Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
Thank you Bill. Any idea if it is safe to do the side and bottom sheets in
pieces as opposed to 6 foot long lengths? Aircraft Spruce is going to stic
k me with a trucking fee=2C (about $95.00 I believe) to ship 5 pounds of pl
ywood because of the length!
--- On Mon=2C 8/24/09=2C Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
Regarding the wedge blocks=2C I believe they are only required at the two l
ocations shown=2C as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some builde
rs have opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other locations=2C
to avoid water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
Regarding plywood=2C one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is tha
t it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues. This will
prevent the plies from delaminating=2C should the wood somehow become soak
ed with water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade plywood for the
fuselage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume is
a mahogany-like tropical wood). While it is not quite as strong as Aircraft
ply made of Birch=2C it is apparently strong enough for this purpose=2C an
d is manufactured using waterproof (also boilproof) glues. In addition to t
he lower cost=2C it is also lighter (in weight=2C as well as color) than Bi
rch=2C and available in 4' x 8' sheets.
A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
http://www.noahsmarine.com/
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
Bill C.
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
=nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
a>http://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Get back to school stuff for them and cashback for you.
http://www.bing.com/cashback?form=MSHYCB&publ=WLHMTAG&crea=TEXT_MSHYC
B_BackToSchool_Cashback_BTSCashback_1x1
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: deadstick flying |
I have a Pietenpol Aircamper that was registered in 1995. It has an 85 Cont
inental electric start, generator. Love it. Not the most roomy plane I have
flown, but fun! I agree that the glide ratio is similar to the Piper Tri-p
acer. When you chop the power, it is coming down! Don't have to worry about
runway float! Ross, in Orangeville, Canada=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A________________
________________=0AFrom: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corpora
tion]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>=0ATo: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" <piete
npol-list@matronics.com>=0ASent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 7:08:02 AM=0ASubj
ect: RE: Pietenpol-List: deadstick flying=0A=0A--> Pietenpol-List message p
osted by: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael
.d.cuy@nasa.gov>=0A=0AI agree with Jack's mention of "aim for the middle of
the runway, not the end" when you have=0Aa deadstick on your hands. =0A
=0AThat would translate to aiming for the middle of a farmers field, grassy
stretch, or whatever=0Ayou are trying to land on. =0A=0AI learned that (es
pecially so in a Pietenpol with all that drag) your 'circle', if you will,
of=0Apotential fields to land in is MUCH smaller in diameter with a dead en
gine than with an idling=0Aengine. Pick something close-- something that i
s doable with altitude to spare, not where you =0Aput yourself in a situati
on where you're trying to stretch your glide. =0A=0AMike C. =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
==================0A=0A=0A _________
_________________________________________________________=0ALooking for the
perfect gift? Give the gift of Flickr! =0A=0Ahttp://www.flickr.com/gift/
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: deadstick flying |
I agree with Mike, there are a lot more emergency procedures which should be focused
on in flight training. I would also second Jack's recommendation to practice
dead sticks to a good runway. As a line-boy back in High School, I helped
a crew of mechanics in air boats retrieve one of our C-152s out of the Eastern
Everglades. An instructor shut down the engine around 4,000agl and gave his
student until 2,000agl to practice his emergency procedures and accomplish a restart.
Well he must have flooded the engine, they could not make it back to the
airfield, and they practiced an actual dead stick into the muck of the FL everglades.
It flipped, they were fine, and walked several miles to the nearest
road. it made for an interesting 24 hour recovery in air boats!
Steve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259699#259699
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| Subject: | portable tie downs |
Hi all,
I'm looking for recommendations on a portable tie down kit. I think I
saw Jack using The Claw at Brodhead. Anyone else have a favorite or one
to avoid at all costs?
Thanks,
Dan
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Engine question, 0-235 |
Brian, I have a 0-235c2b that Is going on my Jungster 1.- The carborrator
should be a Marvel Schebler MA3.- The 0-235 did not use an accelerator p
ump carb, but I might see if dad has parts for one for my engine (it's aero
batic, and I just perfer an accelerator pump).- As far as overhauling a M
A3 series carb it's pretty simple, and would save you some money if you did
it yourself.- I think the rebuild kit was less than $300, and is just ab
out as complicated as the marvel sheb. carb on my Allis Chalmers tractor.
- Just make sure if you do the rebuild you order the overhaul manual, as
it has all the assosiated A.D.'s with it.- The two biggies were the float
a.d. and the venturi a.d.- If you can find out if the float is brass, or
composite, if it is brass I don't think you have to replace it, but the co
mposite (black) float does need replaced, (I guess they would become less b
oyant due to soaking up fuel and flood the engine).- Also send the crank
out
for magnaflux inspection, and regrind if nessasary, have a aircraft shop d
o the crank work they know the importance of a generous radius on crank jou
rnals, most auto shops don't (Dad and I learned the hard way).- If the ca
rb overhaul is what you would like to do let me know, I might be able to ge
t you the mannual references and mail you coppies.- One last caution, the
older 0-235C2B's (they have shower of sparks mags, bendix 200 series)-we
re on the old piper colts which were taildraggers, short coupled etc, so ma
ny were ground looped and they had metal props, so a prop strike is very po
ssible, that is my biggest worry, that I will find my crank bent or cracked
at teardown.
-
Let me know if I can help,
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 11
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| Subject: | portable tie down suggestions |
Dan,
A few weeks prior to going to Wisconsin I ordered a set of these from Chief Aircraft
and am
quite happy with them. http://www.chiefaircraft.com/airsec/Aircraft/Accessories/TieDown.html
FlyTies unique design allows quick insertion and quick removal using the easy-out
extraction tool provided. Rugged, die-cast steel rods are 3/8" x 14" for deeper
penetration into harder ground. Cumulative load capacity is 3,600 lbs. Kits
includes 3 ea. Delrin hubs, 9 ea. steel rods, 3 ea. 3/8" x 12' ropes, easy-out
extraction tool, and rugged compact canvas tote bag. Complete kit weighs only
6 lbs (Less than 1 gal. of Avgas) and has a lifetime warranty.
Mike C.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fuselage building and material;exelente |
Of course, the choice of materials is up to the builder.
As I understand it, the boil test is NOT to ensure that the plywood and
glue can withstand being boiled (nobody's going to boil their airplane -
where would you get a pot that big?), but rather is simply a method to
help determine whether the plywood will be able to withstand repeated
cycles of being wet and dry - sort of an accelerated aging
approximation. So, based on that, I'd be a little wary of a plywood that
will not stand up to the boil test. If it fell apart in the boiling
water, it will also probably (eventually) fall apart on an airplane -
hopefully while it is sitting on the ground.
By the way, the boil test that marine plywoods are subjected to is more
involved than simply sticking the wood in boiling water. Here's an
exerpt of the test procedure:
Boiling test - Test specimens {85 mm (3-1/4 inches) long by 25 mm (1
inch) wide} shall be boiled in water for 4 hours and then dried for 20
hours at a temperature of 63 =B1 3 =B0C (145 =B1 5 =B0F) with sufficient
air circulation to lower moisture content of the specimens to a maximum
of 8 %. The specimens shall be boiled again for a period of 4 hours,
cooled in water, and tested while wet by tension loading to failure...
As well, I don't think that having a piece of plywood "exposed to rain
several times" is any indication of how the plywood will stand up over
the long term. Keep in mind that most Piets are likely to be "outdoors"
all the time. The actual time that they are in the open (flying time or
tied down) is small, but the rest of the time they are (hopefully)
sitting in a hangar. Most hangars are not climate controlled, so the
planes are subjected to all of the variations in humidity and
temperature that Mother nature supplies. That is why the waterproof
glues are important in the plywood we use.
As for the strength, toughness and flexibility of Okoume, well, let's
just say that it is strong enough for the application, it shouldn't be
exposed to much abuse, and it doesn't need to be that flexible - the
surfaces of the Piet are pretty flat. The main purpose of the plywood in
the piet is in the form of gussets. Even the sides and floor are
basically very large gussets. Maybe you can dent Okoume with your
fingernail, but you can also do the same with Spruce (or Poplar). (By
the way, if I ever caught someone digging their fingernails into the
wood of my plane, I think I'd probably break their arms). ALL of the
wood in any aircraft MUST be sealed. Whether one choses to seal it with
Epoxy or Urethane or some other product is up to the builder, but be
aware that the more you put on, the heavier it gets. I have yet to hear
any airplane builder regret making their plane so light.
While the cost of the Baltic Birch ply (non Aircraft grade) may look
cheap, it will not be in the long run, if your plane starts falling
apart in a few years. In the big picture, the savings will be small -
maybe a couple of tanks of gas? I was able to find a local supplier of
Okoume (Noah's Marine), and got enough 1/8" and 1/4" to do my whole
plane for about $150. Luckily, I was able to pick it up, so I did not
have to pay for shipping, but even if you double that, it's only $300
(not a big deal).
My 1.82 cents worth (2 cents Canadian)
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert
Ray
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:30 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
One more thing I would not use Okume unless I coated it with epoxy, it's
soft
and you can dent it with your finger nail, it however soaks epoxy like a
sponge
and this increases it's side hardness and abrasion resistance.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
wrote:
In the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can buy
it for a buck a board
foot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birch although not boil
proof it's stronger and more
flexible than 1088 Okume, probably twice as strong per deminsion and
it's CHEAP.
The epoxy I'm using will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil
tested the natural
wood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry
about is not so
much a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over time. I have
a piece of baltic
birch on a truck topper I built it's been exposed to rain several times
and hasn't delaminated yet.
It's shock resistance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate
marine plywood
strength in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was
built of
Okume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a
little cheaper
than the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more durable and
less likly to rot
than either okume or birch.
I would not use anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on
other projects
and I think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are
spliced.
If you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and
there you will
learn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fiber
glass it is
a very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give a much
smoother
finnish than DF.
my 02 cents worth
Russell
Message 13
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Michael C. I plan to keep the same length of lateral wing sections=3B bu
t I will need to widen the center section of three piece wing to match widt
h of fuselage. I will be looking at a 0-200 engine as the altitude at hom
e airport is often 6000 feet on hot day. Gross weight will be empty weight
plus my weight and fuel and oil. Should be under 1000 pounds. Thanks for
comments. Big Steve
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: spiral grain definition |
Let me add to Ryan's list of URLs. See the top link on this page,
"Properties of wood":
http://web.archive.org/web/20070629020642/www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/contents.html
Pay particular attention to section 3.6, "Effect of grain slope on
strength."
Dan
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Tom,
>
> The 'approved' data for grading wood is AC 43.13, ANC-19 (Wood Aircraft
> Inspection and Fabrication), and Mil Spec 6073. Here is a link to
> Chapter 1 of AC 43.13 from the FAA's site, which is the chapter that
> covers wood structures (not much there):
>
> http://rgl.faa.gov/REGULATORY_AND_GUIDANCE_LIBRARY/RGADVISORYCIRCULAR.NSF/0/99c827db9baac81b86256b4500596c4e/$FILE/Chapter%2001.pdf
>
> Here is a link to an online digitized copy of ANC-19, Wood Aircraft
> Inspection and Fabrication. I think starting around page 118 is where
> they deal with grading wood:
>
> http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015011856757
>
> Finally, here is a link to a gov't website where you can retrieve a copy
> of Mil Spec 6073. It's not the most legible copy, but you might be able
> to glean something from it:
>
> http://assist.daps.dla.mil/quicksearch/basic_profile.cfm?ident_number=5780
>
> Hope that helps.....
>
> Ryan
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 10:24 PM, TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com
> <mailto:tmbrant@msn.com>> wrote:
>
> Gary and others,
>
> Thanks for the responses on spiral grain, but I'm not sure you're
> understanding my question - By no means am I trying to shortcut
> anything or use substandard material - I'm just confused about the
> requirements - hopefully the following will clarify my question.
>
> Both boards I purchased have well over 6 grains per inch. The both
> have vertical end grain (1 has grain about 15-20 degrees from
> vertical - anything under 45 deg. is within specifications). Both
> have met the 1 in 15 runout rule (more like 1 in 30 worst case) -
> this is the grain slope as measured on the face (widest part) of the
> board. So based on this, all is good.
>
> Where I get fuzzy is reading the EAA book "Wood". They show an
> example piece which has end grain nearing 45 deg. and due to this,
> it also has an edge grain. This is the first time I mentioned edge
> grain. This is where they say something to the affect of 'if the
> face grain runs out 1 in 20 and the edge grain runs out 1 in 16,
> then you must use a formula to determine actual slope because this
> is a spiral grain condition'.
>
> The point I'm trying to make is where the grain is near perfectly
> vertical - Does it also need to have edge grain? If so, I don't see
> how this is physically possible except at the point where the face
> grain runs out.
>
> I don't know if this makes any sense - Tomorrow I can try to clarify
> with pictures or drawings or something.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tom B.
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 15
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Hi Brian I bought an engine that spent many years on an airboat and what I
learned from it ( the hard way) is that mostly unairworthy propstrike engi
nes end up on airboats AND that airboat guys are brutal to their engines. I
'd say 80% of the bolt threads that were excessable from the outside of the
engine were stripped or damaged in some way. The crank failed a magnaflux
test and needed to be replaced. The cylinders had so many broken fins that
I had to replace them all and was very lucky to find someone who would even
take them as cores. The engine had two Chevy pistons in it when I tore it
down=2C it had been over reved so bad that all the pistons had baddly broke
n skirts. I did all of my own work and still could have bought a low time A
65 for what I have in parts and machine work. Soooo be careful=2C I know I
will never buy another airboat engine. Ed Grentzer
From: brian.e.jardine@l-3com.com
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Engine question
Group=2C
I have been debating on the type of engine for my Piet. I need something w
ith horses since my field elevation here in UT is 4700ft. My neighbor has
been over to visit and see my project as well as my T-craft project. He tol
d me he has an old 0-235 on an airboat that he would sell me for $1200. It
runs but leaks oil like crazy and needs new mags and who knows what else.
It has a carb=2C not sure which type and the junker boat. I could turn and
sell the boat for $600 and have a certified engine for $600. My fear is buy
ing an old engine with no logs and an unknown history and having to pay big
money to have it gone through to be able to put it on my Piet. Any sugge
stions from experienced fliers would be appreciated.
Brian
SLC=2C UT
Brian Jardine
L-3 Communications
Operations Project Engineer
640 North 2200 West
P.O.Box 16850
Salt Lake City=2C UT 84116
L
801-594-3482
brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Flying behind a silent Corvair |
Gents,
I can't express any more strongly my belief that _every_ power pilot
should get some serious training in a glider. Getting my glider ticket
was the best thing I ever did. It taught me how to fly the plane, and
*commit* to the landing. There are no go-arounds.
And, when you get that first thermal that takes you up 1000 feet with no
big fan out on the front, man, you know you can do just about anything.
Just remember to take your paper sack if your stomach can't handle the
circles.
My 2 cents,
Dan
TOM MICHELLE BRANT wrote:
> takes guts - I've always thought about trying it for the same reason -
> to experience it when you expect it. You may have just inspired me...
> Or maybe not.
>
> Tom B.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
Dan,
My son and I ordered The Claw for use with our Cub. Works well, no complaints.
The Flyties that Mike showed appears to be much the same principle but is $10
cheaper and 2 lbs. lighter. Mike's a smart shopper!
Paul
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259760#259760
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
I think I know why Mike ended up choosing Flyties. From their site:
"The hub is machined out of high strength Delrin. Delrin has good weathering
and chemical resistance. Delrin is used extensively on the space shuttle."
The NASA connection...... ;)
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Paul N. Peckham
<peckham9@countryspeed.com>wrote:
> peckham9@countryspeed.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> My son and I ordered The Claw for use with our Cub. Works well, no
> complaints. The Flyties that Mike showed appears to be much the same
> principle but is $10 cheaper and 2 lbs. lighter. Mike's a smart shopper!
>
> Paul
Message 19
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| Subject: | thermals in a Piet |
All of you guys who have time in your Piets know this but for others-- on a hot
day
when going x-country you can hit a thermal that will take you up and up even after
you've throttled back and pushed the stick forward. The downside is when you
hit
the lull you can add power, pull back on the stick and STILL be going down in height.
Mike C.
do not archive
(those kind of hot, hot days are not fun at all to fly around in a Pietenpol)
Message 20
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|
| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
The Flyties that Mike showed appears to be much the same
>principle but is $10 cheaper and 2 lbs. lighter.
Paul-- there is one big difference between the Claw and the Flytie tie downs------the
Claw
comes WITH a hammer thus the price and weight difference.
I chose to bring an old hammer that my Dad used for years with a wood handle---bigger
than
a tack hammer and smaller than a regular hammer and lighter than an all metal hammer
so best
of both worlds for me--plus Dad's hammer gets to fly with me x-country wherever
I go....though
he wouldn't be happy that I'm flying a contraption that I built myself probably:)
do not archive
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
high strength Delrin. Delrin has good weathering and chemical resistance.
Delrin is used extensively on the space shuttle."
The NASA connection...... ;)
Ryan
You know Ryan I was in such a hurry to order a set of tie downs so they wou
ld arrive before I left for WI that I didn't even read those words above.
I will say one thing negative about the Fly-Ties--- that high strength Del
rin isn't high enough in strength to pound those stakes in all the way beca
use when I did the little tabs on the stakes near the head of the stake chi
pped little pieces of Delrin from the 3-hole Delrin donut-type fittings !
I won't drive my sakes in all the way when I attend Lee Bottom Flying Fie
ld's fly-in later in September when I camp out under the wing again. S
o much for space shuttle-worthy !
http://www.leebottom.com/
Message 22
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| Subject: | thermals in a Piet |
Mike=2C
Sounds like a tri-pacer except they don't go up much=2C just down!
Doug Dever
Do not archive
> From: michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed=2C 26 Aug 2009 13:58:35 -0500
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: thermals in a Piet
>
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> All of you guys who have time in your Piets know this but for others-- on
a hot day
> when going x-country you can hit a thermal that will take you up and up e
ven after
> you've throttled back and pushed the stick forward. The downside is when
you hit
> the lull you can add power=2C pull back on the stick and STILL be going d
own in height.
>
> Mike C.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> (those kind of hot=2C hot days are not fun at all to fly around in a Piet
enpol)
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: thermals in a Piet |
A friend of mine was hopping rides in a Stearman at the Galesburg fly-in
a few years ago when he lost engine power. He didn't completely lose
the engine, but neither did he have enough power to get him back to the
airport. He was over the town and between pumping the primer to feed
fuel to the engine and finding, and turning in, a couple of thermals he
was able to get the plane back to the airport. Who would have thought
you could thermal a Stearman!
The same friend also was able to ride a mountain wave to get an Apache
over the Rockies on a ferry flight from California to Illinois.
do not archive
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
>
> All of you guys who have time in your Piets know this but for others-- on a hot
day
> when going x-country you can hit a thermal that will take you up and up even
after
> you've throttled back and pushed the stick forward. The downside is when
you hit
> the lull you can add power, pull back on the stick and STILL be going down in
height.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
Thanks for the suggestions, guys - I need something for the MAAC fly-in
at Brodhead in a couple weeks.
I'm looking at the following tie-downs, too. They're a heck of a lot
cheaper and lighter, but potentially more effort to "install" since they
need to be twisted in:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=3574&DID=19
I think I like the idea of tap-tap-tap-done instead of
twist-twist-pant-gasp-pant-twist-twist-sweet-lord-what-was-I-thinking-twist...
Cheers,
Dan
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> high strength Delrin. Delrin has good weathering and chemical
> resistance. Delrin is used extensively on the space shuttle."
> The NASA connection...... ;)
> Ryan
>
> *You know Ryan I was in such a hurry to order a set of tie downs so they
> would arrive before I left for WI that I didnt even read those words
> above. I will say one thing negative about the Fly-Ties--- that high
> strength Delrin isnt high enough in strength to pound those stakes in
> all the way because when I did the little tabs on the stakes near the
> head of the stake chipped little pieces of Delrin from the 3-hole Delrin
> donut-type fittings ! I wont drive my sakes in all the way when I
> attend Lee Bottom Flying Fields fly-in later in September when I camp
> out under the wing again. So much for space shuttle-worthy ! *
>
> *http://www.leebottom.com/*
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: thermals in a Piet |
I don't typically wear thermals during the summer months, just too darn
uncomfortable and only result in a severe case of the Swamp A$$ (donkey)
Do not archive
John
Message 26
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[Jeez, I need to catch up on my email.]
Jake,
It does say US Army on it. When I dig into the panel for the annual
I'll take a closer look at the back. I think I'll put a piece of tape
around the outside ring and start marking the barometric pressures on
there and see if I can make some correlation between where the triangle
is and the pressure.
Thanks,
Dan
jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com wrote:
>
> Possibly a Kollsman Altimeter built for the US Army, prior to the
> implementation of the Kollsman window. Possibly assembled by Square D
> Company.
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
Dan I'd suggest looking at the EAA's Airventure pages. They have a whole
section on tie-downs: http://www.airventure.org/planning/tying_down.html
They do not recommend the screw type or auger type tie downs because they
loosen the soil. The information they list is based on 50 years of fly-in
experience where they've seen all kinds of tie-downs and all kinds of
weather.
I like everything about the Claw except the price. They work well, and the
company is very responsive to problems. I've had mine since 2002 and it
came with a wooden handled hammer, which broke. They replaced it with a
steel shank hammer, which eventually broke. They replaced it with a
fiberglass handled hammer which I have not been able to break. The ropes
they provided at first were too short for my Pietenpol, so I complained to
them at OSH that year. They gave me a new set of longer ropes on the spot.
"They're good people, Axel"
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
Icarus Plummet
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Yocum
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie down suggestions
Thanks for the suggestions, guys - I need something for the MAAC fly-in
at Brodhead in a couple weeks.
I'm looking at the following tie-downs, too. They're a heck of a lot
cheaper and lighter, but potentially more effort to "install" since they
need to be twisted in:
http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=3574&DID=19
I think I like the idea of tap-tap-tap-done instead of
twist-twist-pant-gasp-pant-twist-twist-sweet-lord-what-was-I-thinking-twist.
..
Cheers,
Dan
Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] wrote:
> high strength Delrin. Delrin has good weathering and chemical
> resistance. Delrin is used extensively on the space shuttle."
> The NASA connection...... ;)
> Ryan
>
> *You know Ryan I was in such a hurry to order a set of tie downs so they
> would arrive before I left for WI that I didn't even read those words
> above. I will say one thing negative about the Fly-Ties--- that high
> strength Delrin isn't high enough in strength to pound those stakes in
> all the way because when I did the little tabs on the stakes near the
> head of the stake chipped little pieces of Delrin from the 3-hole Delrin
> donut-type fittings ! I won't drive my sakes in all the way when I
> attend Lee Bottom Flying Field's fly-in later in September when I camp
> out under the wing again. So much for space shuttle-worthy ! *
>
> *http://www.leebottom.com/*
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
I bought some, liked em a bunch, wife didn't care too much for em!
do not archive
John
Message 29
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Maybe climb up to about 2700 ft and take another picture, so we can see the
'Type' and 'Serial Number'.... :P
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov> wrote:
>
> [Jeez, I need to catch up on my email.]
>
> Jake,
>
> It does say US Army on it. When I dig into the panel for the annual I'll
> take a closer look at the back. I think I'll put a piece of tape around the
> outside ring and start marking the barometric pressures on there and see if
> I can make some correlation between where the triangle is and the pressure.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: wood packages |
We reviewed the comments on the Pietenpol list regarding the quality and price
of spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. We have supplied aircraft grade
spruce to aircraft builders worldwide since 1965.....it was our first product,
and thus our company name. We have obtained our spruce from the same mill in
the Northeast for decades, and they have always furnished us with handpicked
spruce which meets MIL-S-6073. Although a homebuilder can certainly use any wood
he chooses for an experimental aircraft, we believe that the quality and strength
of aircraft grade spruce is the best choice, and most spruce orders placed
with Aircraft Spruce are shipped within one week from our wood shops in California
and Georgia. If any builder have a specific problem with any wood received
from Aircraft Spruce, please let us know by email at custsvc@aircraftspruce.com
Thanks!
Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.
Customer Service Dept.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259820#259820
Message 31
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| Subject: | wood struts - test sample |
Hey=2C
I intend in the next week or two (when I have time) to make a up a laminate
d sample of a wood strut for strength testing. I will be sandwiching a 1/4
" thk. 5 ply Meranti marine plywood between (2) pieces of spruce (thickness
yet to be determined). I will not be using any internal aluminum or steel
. The goal here is to test the tensile strength of the built up strut at t
he mounting points. The problem is=2C I have no way of testing it. Does a
nyone have access to some measured device or weights that can assist me wit
h this? I'll be happy to make up the test piece(s) and send them to you if
you're able to help. Otherwise=2C ideas on how to do this at home with ba
sic stuff would be helpfull too. I just don't have the weights.
Much appreciated.
Tom B.
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
I don't think I've ever used a set of twisty tie-downs that I haven't
eventually twisted the heads off. They may work in the fine farm soil
of the midwest, but the clay of Georgia defeats them every time.
At 3:59 PM -0500 8/26/09, Dan Yocum wrote:
>
>Thanks for the suggestions, guys - I need something for the MAAC
>fly-in at Brodhead in a couple weeks.
>
>I'm looking at the following tie-downs, too. They're a heck of a
>lot cheaper and lighter, but potentially more effort to "install"
>since they need to be twisted in:
>
>http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&Product_ID=3574&DID=19
>
>I think I like the idea of tap-tap-tap-done instead of
>twist-twist-pant-gasp-pant-twist-twist-sweet-lord-what-was-I-thinking-twist...
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: wood packages |
While I do appreciate occasional techical assistance from companies on
forums and the like, I'm not sure this is really much more than a
commercial in response to public criticism.
As it is, individuals do have the right to openly discuss the various
differences in price, quality, and service they have received from
businesses offering similar services. If a business is concerned
about it's image in the homebuilding community, perhaps they should
concentrate their efforts on addressing the complaints voiced by their
customers, and then work to improve those areas of their business.
This is not the only forum I am involved with, and this is not the
only forum in which builders have criticized companies for their
prices, service, or quality.
Personally, I would like to see lower prices on everything, but I'm
not willing to sacrifice quality or service for price.
Wayne Bressler Jr.
Taildraggers, Inc.
taildraggersinc.com
Sent from the phone that made the Blackberry obsolete.
On Aug 26, 2009, at 6:36 PM, "Aircraft Spruce Info" <info@aircraftspruce.com
> wrote:
> >
>
> We reviewed the comments on the Pietenpol list regarding the quality
> and price of spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. We have
> supplied aircraft grade spruce to aircraft builders worldwide since
> 1965.....it was our first product, and thus our company name. We
> have obtained our spruce from the same mill in the Northeast for
> decades, and they have always furnished us with handpicked spruce
> which meets MIL-S-6073. Although a homebuilder can certainly use any
> wood he chooses for an experimental aircraft, we believe that the
> quality and strength of aircraft grade spruce is the best choice,
> and most spruce orders placed with Aircraft Spruce are shipped
> within one week from our wood shops in California and Georgia. If
> any builder have a specific problem with any wood received from
> Aircraft Spruce, please let us know by email at custsvc@aircraftspruce.com
>
> Thanks!
>
> Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.
> Customer Service Dept.
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: wood packages |
My experience with Aircraft Spruce has been excellent over the years. The
wood package for my Pietenpol was received in a timely manner and the order
accurate. Any problems that I've had were quickly resolved.
Tim White
----- Original Message -----
From: "Aircraft Spruce Info" <info@aircraftspruce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood packages
> <info@aircraftspruce.com>
>
> We reviewed the comments on the Pietenpol list regarding the quality and
> price of spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. We have supplied
> aircraft grade spruce to aircraft builders worldwide since 1965.....it was
> our first product, and thus our company name. We have obtained our spruce
> from the same mill in the Northeast for decades, and they have always
> furnished us with handpicked spruce which meets MIL-S-6073. Although a
> homebuilder can certainly use any wood he chooses for an experimental
> aircraft, we believe that the quality and strength of aircraft grade
> spruce is the best choice, and most spruce orders placed with Aircraft
> Spruce are shipped within one week from our wood shops in California and
> Georgia. If any builder have a specific problem with any wood received
> from Aircraft Spruce, please let us know by email at
> custsvc@aircraftspruce.com
>
> Thanks!
>
> Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.
> Customer Service Dept.
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259820#259820
>
>
>
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: wood struts - test sample |
VHJ5IHJlc2VhcmNoaW5nIGVuZ2luZWVyaW5nIHN0cmVzcyBhbmFseXNpcyBtZXRob2RzIGFuZCBB
VE0gc3RhbmRhcmRzLiBJbiBteSBwcm9mZXNzaW9uIHdlIGhhdmUgTklPU0ggbWV0aG9kcyBmb3Ig
c2FtcGxpbmcgYW5kIGFuYWx5c2lzIHdoaWNoIEkgYW0gY2VydGFpbiBleGlzdCBmb3IgeW91ciBw
dXJwb3Nlcy4gT3IgeW91IGNhbiBjb250YWN0IEJpbGwgQ2h1cmNoIEkgd291bGQgYmUgaGUgY291
bGQgZGlyZWN0IHlvdSB3aXRob3V0IGhlc2l0YXRpb24uIEJpbGwgcHV0cyB1cCB3aXRoIGxvYWRz
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c3RydXQgZm9yIHN0cmVuZ3RoIHRlc3RpbmcuICBJIHdpbGwgYmUgc2FuZHdpY2hpbmcgYSAxLzQi
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c2luZyBhbnkgaW50ZXJuYWwgYWx1bWludW0gb3Igc3RlZWwuICBUaGUgZ29hbCBoZXJlIGlzIHRv
IHRlc3QgdGhlIHRlbnNpbGUgc3RyZW5ndGggb2YgdGhlIGJ1aWx0IHVwIHN0cnV0IGF0IHRoZSBt
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IGl0LiAgRG9lcyBhbnlvbmUgaGF2ZSBhY2Nlc3MgdG8gc29tZSBtZWFzdXJlZCBkZXZpY2Ugb3Ig
d2VpZ2h0cyB0aGF0IGNhbiBhc3Npc3QgbWUgd2l0aCB0aGlzPyAgSSdsbCBiZSBoYXBweSB0byBt
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YmxlIHRvIGhlbHAuICBPdGhlcndpc2UsIGlkZWFzIG9uIGhvdyB0byBkbyB0aGlzIGF0IGhvbWUg
d2l0aCBiYXNpYyBzdHVmZiB3b3VsZCBiZSBoZWxwZnVsbCB0b28uICBJIGp1c3QgZG9uJ3QgaGF2
ZSB0aGUgd2VpZ2h0cy4NCg0KTXVjaCBhcHByZWNpYXRlZC4NCg0KVG9tIEIuDQoNCg=
Message 36
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| Subject: | Re: wood packages |
I agree.- I've had only positive experiences with Aircraft Spruce.- I g
et things quickly and everything has been of good quality.- I even asked
them if they would donate some charts for my after school (high school) avi
ation class I teach and they sent a large box of different types of charts,
facility directories and the like with no charge to me.
Mike Groah
Tulare CA
(working on my second windshield)
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Tim White <aa5flyer@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Tim White <aa5flyer@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood packages
My experience with Aircraft Spruce has been excellent over the years.- Th
e wood package for my Pietenpol was received in a timely manner and the ord
er accurate. Any problems that I've had were quickly resolved.
Tim White
----- Original Message ----- From: "Aircraft Spruce Info" <info@aircraftspr
uce.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:36 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: wood packages
ftspruce.com>
>
> We reviewed the comments on the Pietenpol list regarding the quality and
price of spruce from Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co. We have supplied aircr
aft grade spruce to aircraft builders worldwide since 1965.....it was our f
irst product, and thus our company name. We have obtained our spruce from t
he same mill in the Northeast for decades, and they have always furnished u
s with handpicked spruce which meets MIL-S-6073. Although a homebuilder can
certainly use any wood he chooses for an experimental aircraft, we believe
that the quality and strength of aircraft grade spruce is the best choice,
and most spruce orders placed with Aircraft Spruce are shipped within one
week from our wood shops in California and Georgia. If any builder have a s
pecific problem with any wood received from Aircraft Spruce, please let us
know by email at custsvc@aircraftspruce.com
>
> Thanks!
>
> Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.
> Customer Service Dept.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259820#259820
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
le, List Admin.
=0A=0A=0A
Message 37
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perhaps they should concentrate their efforts on addressing the complaints voiced
by their customers, and then work to improve those areas of their business.?
?
Isn't this what they are doing? (see below).?In my?opinion, this?company has the
right to try to defend itself against what it feels is unjustified criticism.
Actually I admire the management for being proactive in attempting to extinguish
negative PR that can have a very large cumulative effect on a forum such
as this. I myself have used the spruce that they have provided and have found
it to be very satisfactory. Every builder has the opportunity to shop price and
make buying decisions based on this, and other considerations.
?
??
any builder have a specific problem with any wood received from > Aircraft Spruce,
please let us know by email at custsvc@aircraftspruce.com?
>?
> Thanks!?
>?
> Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Co.?
> Customer Service Dept.?
?
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: wood struts - test sample |
Perhaps you could use levers and lighter weights.
Regards Mike T.
----- Original Message -----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:49 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts - test sample
Hey,
I intend in the next week or two (when I have time) to make a up a
laminated sample of a wood strut for strength testing. I will be
sandwiching a 1/4" thk. 5 ply Meranti marine plywood between (2) pieces
of spruce (thickness yet to be determined). I will not be using any
internal aluminum or steel. The goal here is to test the tensile
strength of the built up strut at the mounting points. The problem is,
I have no way of testing it. Does anyone have access to some measured
device or weights that can assist me with this? I'll be happy to make
up the test piece(s) and send them to you if you're able to help.
Otherwise, ideas on how to do this at home with basic stuff would be
helpfull too. I just don't have the weights.
Much appreciated.
Tom B.
Message 39
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| Subject: | Re: wood packages |
It would seem they are operating within the boundaries defined by the FAQ
thus far:
"Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists."
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Wayne Bressler
<wayne@taildraggersinc.com>wrote:
> wayne@taildraggersinc.com>
>
> While I do appreciate occasional techical assistance from companies on
> forums and the like, I'm not sure this is really much more than a commercial
> in response to public criticism.
>
> As it is, individuals do have the right to openly discuss the various
> differences in price, quality, and service they have received from
> businesses offering similar services. If a business is concerned about it's
> image in the homebuilding community, perhaps they should concentrate their
> efforts on addressing the complaints voiced by their customers, and then
> work to improve those areas of their business.
>
> This is not the only forum I am involved with, and this is not the only
> forum in which builders have criticized companies for their prices, service,
> or quality.
>
> Personally, I would like to see lower prices on everything, but I'm not
> willing to sacrifice quality or service for price.
>
> Wayne Bressler Jr.
> Taildraggers, Inc.
> taildraggersinc.com
>
Message 40
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The very few items that I ordered from ASS Co. (quickly learned that Wicks and
Dillsburg Aero were my best sources of wood and AN hardware)
I found that the company did not have informed, intelligent, capable people manning
the phones nor could they get my order right nor could I count on
it being at my residence in 2-3 days like Wicks could DO. Wicks and Dillsburg
Aero were wayyyy more reliable and correct on orders than ASSSCO.
Mike Cuy
Berea, Ohio
44017...in case ASSCO is monitoring this post---as I suspect they are.
Message 41
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| Subject: | Suggested product |
Any suggestions on sources and material to be used as fire protection layer between
firewall and bulkhead?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 42
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I am the luckiest guy in the world. I have ordered from Wicks,
Aircraft Spruce (the fellow behind the counter here in the GA
facility is quite good), Sporty's, Gulf Coast, Chief, and many
others. I can't recall any problems with any of them. I did order a
helmet once that didn't fit, but then as my wife helpfully pointed
out, I have a lopsided head! ACS still traded for one that fit, and
they didn't even ask embarrassing questions about head shape... <:-|
OTOH, don't get me started on Lowrance!!! =-O
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 43
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Hey Ryan, maybe I'll sit your butt up there in the front seat and we'll
take an hour ride to get up to 2,700: that McCauley 74-42 prop does NOT
like to climb. But, apparently it does get up and go in straight flight
(maybe that's an RPM issue...). Tres and his buddy averaged 72.2mph
with an unknown headwind (10-ish?) during the Airventure Cup race. I
have yet to check the cruise speed with a GPS...
Hm. Maybe Jess would like to go for a ride... OW! What was that? OW,
OW! Oh, sorry, honey, I didn't see OW! OW! OW! you there.
Joking aside, my wife is quite the hotty, too. She's just not nearly
into airplanes as Jess is, you lucky, stinkin', miserable, so-n-so,
*grumble*grumble*grumble*.
;-)
Ryan Mueller wrote:
> Maybe climb up to about 2700 ft and take another picture, so we can see
> the 'Type' and 'Serial Number'.... :P
>
> Ryan
>
> do not archive
>
> On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:51 PM, Dan Yocum <yocum@fnal.gov
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>> wrote:
>
> <mailto:yocum@fnal.gov>>
>
> [Jeez, I need to catch up on my email.]
>
> Jake,
>
> It does say US Army on it. When I dig into the panel for the annual
> I'll take a closer look at the back. I think I'll put a piece of
> tape around the outside ring and start marking the barometric
> pressures on there and see if I can make some correlation between
> where the triangle is and the pressure.
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
--
Dan Yocum
Fermilab 630.840.6509
yocum@fnal.gov, http://fermigrid.fnal.gov
Fermilab. Just zeros and ones.
Message 44
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Lucky you, non-Illinois-living midwesterner who does not have to pay sales
tax when ordering from Wicks! :P
I wonder, if I send you a check and you pay for the order from Ohio, but
have it shipped to us in IL, would that then get around the sales tax issue?
Or would that violate Interstate Trade Laws with regards to 'Spruce
Laundering"? :P
Ryan
do not archive
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> The very few items that I ordered from ASS Co. (quickly learned that
> Wicks and Dillsburg Aero were my best sources of wood and AN hardware)
> I found that the company did not have informed, intelligent, capable people
> manning the phones nor could they get my order right nor could I count on
> it being at my residence in 2-3 days like Wicks could DO. Wicks and
> Dillsburg Aero were wayyyy more reliable and correct on orders than ASSSCO.
>
> Mike Cuy
> Berea, Ohio
> 44017...in case ASSCO is monitoring this post---as I suspect they are.
>
Message 45
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| Subject: | ACS- wood packages |
Back in the olden days (1978) I ordered a landing gear spring for my 7-AC Aeronca
from Aircraft Spruce and Specialty. When I received the package from UPS?it
was empty, and upon further inspection, determined it to be due to inadequate
packaging. ?I called ACS, and Jim Irwin (president then and now) called me back.
After he figured out that I was legit, he took care of the problem right away
and sent me another spring. This is the definition of a person with good character.
As I see it, if the man didn't care about his business, or customers,
he would not be instructing them to monitor the "lowly" Pietenpol email list.
There is an old saying "A fish stinks from the head down". This can also have the
opposite meaning.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 46
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| Subject: | ASSCO mistakes---continually ongoing |
But why does ASS Co. Ino. sometimes have to correct it's mistakes--- why can't
they get the order right from the git-go like Wicks or Dillsburg------ ?
olden days (1978) I ordered a landing gear spring for my 7-AC Aeronca from Aircraft
Spruce and Specialty. When I received the package from UPS?it was empty,
and upon further inspection, determined it to be due to inadequate packaging.
?I called ACS, and Jim Irwin (president then and now) called me back. After he
figured out that I was legit, he took care of the problem right away and sent
me another spring. This is the definition of a person with good character. As
I see it, if the man didn't care about his business, or customers, he would not
be instructing them to monitor the "lowly" Pietenpol email list.
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
Nice touch...
--------------------------
Gary A. Boothe
Sales Manager
CALPLY Architectural Products Division
Sent from BlackBerry Wireless Device
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
<owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com>
Sent: Wed Aug 26 12:01:22 2009
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie down suggestions
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
The Flyties that Mike showed appears to be much the same
>principle but is $10 cheaper and 2 lbs. lighter.
Paul-- there is one big difference between the Claw and the Flytie tie
downs------the Claw
comes WITH a hammer thus the price and weight difference.
I chose to bring an old hammer that my Dad used for years with a wood
handle---bigger than
a tack hammer and smaller than a regular hammer and lighter than an all
metal hammer so best
of both worlds for me--plus Dad's hammer gets to fly with me x-country
wherever I go....though
he wouldn't be happy that I'm flying a contraption that I built myself
probably:)
do not archive
Message 48
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| Subject: | Re: wood struts - test sample |
Stinkin blackberry
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: amsafetyc@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: wood struts - test sample
Try researching engineering stress analysis methods and ATM standards. In my profession
we have NIOSH methods for sampling and analysis which I am certain exist
for your purposes. Or you can contact Bill Church I would be he could direct
you without hesitation. Bill puts up with loads of abuse from many, self included
but he is a proven major resource.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: TOM MICHELLE BRANT <tmbrant@msn.com>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: wood struts - test sample
Hey,
I intend in the next week or two (when I have time) to make a up a laminated sample
of a wood strut for strength testing. I will be sandwiching a 1/4" thk.
5 ply Meranti marine plywood between (2) pieces of spruce (thickness yet to be
determined). I will not be using any internal aluminum or steel. The goal here
is to test the tensile strength of the built up strut at the mounting points.
The problem is, I have no way of testing it. Does anyone have access to
some measured device or weights that can assist me with this? I'll be happy to
make up the test piece(s) and send them to you if you're able to help. Otherwise,
ideas on how to do this at home with basic stuff would be helpfull too.
I just don't have the weights.
Much appreciated.
Tom B.
Message 49
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| Subject: | Suggested product |
John,
Are you looking for something other than galvanized or stainless? Here's my
galvanized.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
Any suggestions on sources and material to be used as fire protection layer
between firewall and bulkhead?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 50
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Galvanized? Stainless? What are you talking about? All I saw was a bad ass engine.
Way Cool!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259888#259888
Message 51
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
I don't know if Hans Vander Voort is still monitoring the list, but from the
archives this is what he did on his award winning Piet:
"I have a stainless steel sheet and Fiberfrax covering the firewall. An FAA
requirement not needed in the good old days when BHP build his. The
stainless and Fiberfrax add about 1/4 inch."
HTH, and good evening Mr Recine.
Ryan
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 8:12 PM, <amsafetyc@aol.com> wrote:
>
> Any suggestions on sources and material to be used as fire protection layer
> between firewall and bulkhead?
>
> John
>
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie down suggestions |
Before my trip to Oshkosh I made my own tie-downs using plain 1/2" steel bar
stock from the hardware store. I cut the bar into three 20" sections, then
used an acetylene torch to heat one end and bend it into a candy-cane shape,
so the overall length is about 18", almost all of which can be pounded into
the ground. These were cheap, are fairly lightweight and fit in a small
area. I'm sure they don't hold down exactly as good as a claw, but I think
the plane would stay put in 40-50mph winds.
The key with a single straight stake is to make sure that the stake is
inserted in the ground at an angle that will make the rope perpendicular or
near perpendicular to the stake. That way the stake can't just be pulled
straight out of the hole. The stakes should be in front of the wings a few
feet, and a few feet outboard of the tie-down point on the wing, and then
pounded in the ground at near a 45 degree angle. The tail stake should be a
few inches behind the tailwheel, and maybe at a 30 degree or so angle (see
the graphic in the article below).
Here is an EAA article with plans for homebuilt "claw" type stakes. These
could probably be built for $20 depending on how much of the material you
may already have sitting around your shop.
http://www.vintageaircraft.org/magazine/aircraft_tiedown.pdf
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul N. Peckham" <peckham9@countryspeed.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 1:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie down suggestions
> <peckham9@countryspeed.com>
>
> Dan,
>
> My son and I ordered The Claw for use with our Cub. Works well, no
> complaints. The Flyties that Mike showed appears to be much the same
> principle but is $10 cheaper and 2 lbs. lighter. Mike's a smart shopper!
>
> Paul
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259760#259760
>
>
>
Message 53
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Sorry for not including this in the initial post. Available from ASS or
Wicks:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/fiberfrax.php
http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid=9126/index.html
Message 54
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Lowrance...I could go on and on about Lowrance. I have an Airmap 500.
Decent product for the price, but no Garmin. I've spent hours and hours
trying to update the stupid thing...but their proprietary card reader is
broken, and there are at least two versions of the reader, each requiring
different USB drivers. The sticker fell off of mine long ago, so I don't
know which version I have...thats just great. Customer service has ranged
anywhere from mildly helpful to a pain in the butt. The last time I paid
$35 for an update, the unit failed to update, of course they have no
verification procedure in their program so I'm just out the $35.
Next time I'll get a Garmin.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Boatright" <jboatri@emory.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:21 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: ASSCO,inc
>
> I am the luckiest guy in the world. I have ordered from Wicks, Aircraft
> Spruce (the fellow behind the counter here in the GA facility is quite
> good), Sporty's, Gulf Coast, Chief, and many others. I can't recall any
> problems with any of them. I did order a helmet once that didn't fit, but
> then as my wife helpfully pointed out, I have a lopsided head! ACS still
> traded for one that fit, and they didn't even ask embarrassing questions
> about head shape... <:-|
>
> OTOH, don't get me started on Lowrance!!! =-O
> --
>
> Jeff Boatright
> "Now let's think about this..."
>
>
>
Message 55
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| Subject: | Re: Fuselage building and materialokume ply; |
ups thats is bad think i agry in all you say i dont want brokent thinks in
my plane fuselaje sides or so. mayby used from small joint or instrument pa
nel view copit shape and bulk head thanks for you in form
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
One more thing I would not use Okume unless I coated it with epoxy, it's so
ft=0Aand you can dent=C2-it with your finger nail, it however soaks epoxy
like a sponge=0Aand this increases it's side hardness and abrasion resista
nce.
=0AOn Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote
:
=0A=0AIn the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can bu
y it for a buck a board=0Afoot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birc
h although not boil proof it's stronger and more=0Aflexible than 1088 Okume
, probably twice as strong per deminsion and it's CHEAP.=0AThe epoxy I'm us
ing will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil tested the natural
=0Awood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry abou
t is not so=0Amuch a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over ti
me. I have a piece of baltic=0Abirch on a truck topper I built it's been ex
posed to rain several times and hasn't delaminated yet.=0AIt's shock resist
ance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate marine plywood=0Astren
gth in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was built of
=0AOkume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a lit
tle cheaper =0Athan the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more du
rable and less likly to rot=0Athan either okume or birch.=0AI would not use
anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on other projects=0Aand I
think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are spliced.=0AIf
you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and there you
will=0Alearn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fib
er glass it is=0Aa very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give
a much smoother=0Afinnish than DF.=0A=C2-=0Amy 02 cents worth=0A=C2-
=0ARussell
=0A=0A=0A=0AOn Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@ya
hoo.com> wrote:
=0A=0A=0A=0A=0Aups=C2- tanks for all you inform i used in my plane birch
aircraft plywood mm. buy in spruse but the last buy shiping chargers is alm
ost the same amount the wood????if you have thoses scrap pises i like tonow
if you like selmy those . =0A=0A=0A
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
> wrote:
=0A
From: brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
=0A=0A=0AI have to agree with=C2- Gary.we have a MacBeath Hardwo
od here in SLC, UT and the prices are great I got my Spruce and ply and I d
on=99t have to pay shipping costs.=0A=0A=C2-=0ABrian =0ASLC, UT =0A
=C2- =0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:own
er-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
=0ASent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente=0A=0A
=C2- =0AJorge, =0A=C2- =0AAll the 1/8=9D plywood on my project is
Marine Mahogany which I purchased locally. In fact, I just found a new sup
plier in the San Francisco Bay Area that is far cheaper. The last sheet I b
ought from MacBeath Hardwood was $25!! If you just need some scraps for mak
ing gussets for your tail, let me know. =0A=C2- =0A=0AGary Boothe=0ACool,
Ca. =0APietenpol =0AWW Corvair Conversion =0ATail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2
-on gear =0A(13 ribs down) =0A=0A=0A=0A=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-
list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
] On Behalf Of jorge lizarraga
=0ASent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente=0A=0A
=C2- =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
hi im jorge from hanford ca, in these moment i folow thw nex step tp build
my piet is the tail section stare whit the stavilizer and look you mail is
bery nice to have okume plywood sprus sale for the same size 98 a pise 4X8F
T IF YOU NOW SOME GUYS BUILD THE SIDE COVER WHIT THESE WOOD YOUNOW . tanks
for you mail and seyou nex
=0A--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote: =0A
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
=0ADate: Monday, August 24, 2009, 9:17 AM =0A=0ARegarding the wedge blocks,
I believe they are only required at the two locations shown, as reinforcem
ent for landing gear attachment. Some builders have opted to use lightweigh
t balsa filler wedges in other locations, to avoid water collection in the
pockets (not a bad idea).=0A=0A=C2- =0ARegarding plywood, one important f
eature of Aircraft grade plywood is that it is manufactured using waterproo
f (actually boilproof) glues. This will prevent the plies from delaminating
, should the wood somehow become soaked with water. An economical alternati
ve to Aircraft grade plywood for the fuselage sides is the use of BS1088 or
BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume is a mahogany-like tropical wood).=C2-W
hile it is not quite as strong as Aircraft ply made of Birch, it is apparen
tly strong enough for this purpose, and is manufactured using waterproof (a
lso boilproof) glues. In addition to the lower cost, it is also lighter (in
weight, as well as color) than Birch, and available in 4' x 8' sheets. =0A
=C2- =0AA couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply: =0A=C2- =0A=C2-
=0Ahttp://www.noahsmarine.com/ =0Ahttp://www.boulterplywood.com/ =0A=C2-
=0ABill C. =C2- =C2-" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matroni
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Message 56
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| Subject: | Fuselage building and materialokume ply; |
Jorge,
I'm not sure if I understand your question, but if you are asking
whether Okoume Marine plywood is okay to use for your fuselage sides,
the answer is yes. Many Pietenpols have been successfully built with
this plywood used for the fuselage sides.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of jorge
lizarraga
Sent: Thu 27/08/2009 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and materialokume ply;
ups thats is bad think i agry in all you say i dont want brokent thinks
in my plane fuselaje sides or so. mayby used from small joint or
instrument panel view copit shape and bulk head thanks for you in form
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
One more thing I would not use Okume unless I coated it with epoxy, it's
soft
and you can dent-it with your finger nail, it however soaks epoxy like
a sponge
and this increases it's side hardness and abrasion resistance.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
wrote:
In the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can buy
it for a buck a board
foot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birch although not boil
proof it's stronger and more
flexible than 1088 Okume, probably twice as strong per deminsion and
it's CHEAP.
The epoxy I'm using will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil
tested the natural
wood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry
about is not so
much a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over time. I have
a piece of baltic
birch on a truck topper I built it's been exposed to rain several times
and hasn't delaminated yet.
It's shock resistance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate
marine plywood
strength in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was
built of
Okume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a
little cheaper
than the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more durable and
less likly to rot
than either okume or birch.
I would not use anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on
other projects
and I think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are
spliced.
If you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and there
you will
learn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fiber
glass it is
a very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give a much
smoother
finnish than DF.
-
my 02 cents worth
-
Russell
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com>
wrote:
ups- tanks for all you inform i used in my plane birch aircraft
plywood mm. buy in spruse but the last buy shiping chargers is almost
the same amount the wood????if you have thoses scrap pises i like tonow
if you like selmy those .
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
<brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com> wrote:
From: brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
I have to agree with- Gary..we have a MacBeath Hardwood here in SLC,
UT and the prices are great I got my Spruce and ply and I don't have to
pay shipping costs.
-
Brian
SLC, UT
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
-
Jorge,
-
All the 1/8" plywood on my project is Marine Mahogany which I purchased
locally. In fact, I just found a new supplier in the San Francisco Bay
Area that is far cheaper. The last sheet I bought from MacBeath Hardwood
was $25!! If you just need some scraps for making gussets for your tail,
let me know.
-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done,-Fuselage-on gear
(13 ribs down.)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jorge
lizarraga
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
-
hi im jorge from hanford ca, in these moment i folow thw nex step tp
build my piet is the tail section stare whit the stavilizer and look you
mail is bery nice to have okume plywood sprus sale for the same size 98
a pise 4X8FT IF YOU NOW SOME GUYS BUILD THE SIDE COVER WHIT THESE WOOD
YOUNOW . tanks for you mail and seyou nex
--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
Regarding the wedge blocks, I believe they are only required at the two
locations shown, as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some
builders have opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other
locations, to avoid water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
-
Regarding plywood, one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is
that it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues.
This will prevent the plies from delaminating, should the wood somehow
become soaked with water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade
plywood for the fuselage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume
Marine Ply (Okoume is a mahogany-like tropical wood).-While it is not
quite as strong as Aircraft ply made of Birch, it is apparently strong
enough for this purpose, and is manufactured using waterproof (also
boilproof) glues. In addition to the lower cost, it is also lighter (in
weight, as well as color) than Birch, and available in 4' x 8' sheets.
-
A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
-
-
http://www.noahsmarine.com/
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
-
Bill C. - -" rel=nofollow
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et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow
target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 57
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Thanks, Mark, but the real credit goes to William Wynne for making cool
looking stuff. I'm just happy to get the engine off the floor!!
BTW - that firewall took 4 hours, including the wood formers (some old
particle board shelves removed from the notorious kitchen remodel).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
Galvanized? Stainless? What are you talking about? All I saw was a bad
ass engine. Way Cool!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259888#259888
Message 58
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Gary,
I see the billet oil pan, the gold hub, and I believe part of the dynamo
mount in the background. While those parts are all well and good, I think
the very clean Corvair that you assembled dominates that picture!
We don't take short-change here. :P
Ryan
do not archive
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks, Mark, but the real credit goes to William Wynne for making cool
> looking stuff. I'm just happy to get the engine off the floor!!
>
> BTW - that firewall took 4 hours, including the wood formers (some old
> particle board shelves removed from the notorious kitchen remodel).
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (13 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:53 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
>
>
> Galvanized? Stainless? What are you talking about? All I saw was a bad
> ass engine. Way Cool!
>
> --------
> Mark - working on wings
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259888#259888
>
>
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