Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:04 AM - Re: Re: Suggested product (Gary Boothe)
2. 05:53 AM - Re: Suggested product (K5YAC)
3. 06:11 AM - Okoume and fuselage gussets (Michael Perez)
4. 06:59 AM - Re: ASSCO,inc (K5YAC)
5. 07:42 AM - Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets (TOM MICHELLE BRANT)
6. 08:14 AM - really a great web link (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
7. 08:20 AM - attaching the front bay cover (skellytown flyer)
8. 08:25 AM - Re: Cheap compact tie downs (shad bell)
9. 08:44 AM - Re: GL 1, GL2 plywood (shad bell)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: attaching the front bay cover (Michael Perez)
11. 10:17 AM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
12. 10:32 AM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (John Hofmann)
13. 10:41 AM - Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets (Bill Church)
14. 10:54 AM - Re: attaching the front bay cover (Jim Markle)
15. 11:01 AM - Re: ASSCO,inc (K5YAC)
16. 11:18 AM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
17. 11:19 AM - any real WWII aviation historians here? (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
18. 11:19 AM - AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Oshkosh (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
19. 11:24 AM - Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets (Michael Perez)
20. 11:32 AM - Re: any real WWII aviation historians here? (K5YAC)
21. 11:38 AM - Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Oshkosh (K5YAC)
22. 11:47 AM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Ryan Mueller)
23. 12:16 PM - AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
24. 12:16 PM - Re: attaching the front bay cover (Thomas Bernie)
25. 12:16 PM - Re: Re: Suggested product (Gary Boothe)
26. 12:47 PM - Re: Suggested product (K5YAC)
27. 12:55 PM - Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA (Ryan Mueller)
28. 12:55 PM - Re: Suggested product (mike)
29. 12:55 PM - Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA (Lloyd Smith)
30. 01:03 PM - Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Oshkosh (Paul N. Peckham)
31. 01:03 PM - Re: attaching the front bay cover (skellytown flyer)
32. 01:15 PM - Re: Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Os... (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
33. 01:24 PM - Re: Re: attaching the front bay cover (Lloyd Smith)
34. 01:43 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
35. 01:43 PM - Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA (Bill Church)
36. 01:48 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
37. 02:03 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (John Hofmann)
38. 02:06 PM - Re: Re: Progress Report (steven sadler)
39. 02:08 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
40. 02:19 PM - Re: Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Os... (Richard Schreiber)
41. 02:44 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Jim Markle)
42. 02:50 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Bill Church)
43. 02:54 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (TOM STINEMETZE)
44. 03:06 PM - Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Oshkosh (Baldeagle)
45. 03:25 PM - Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA ()
46. 04:42 PM - Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA (joe motis)
47. 05:12 PM - Re: Re: Progress Report (Doug Dever)
48. 06:13 PM - Re: Suggested product (Gary Boothe)
49. 06:13 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Gary Boothe)
50. 06:43 PM - assertiveness training (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
51. 06:43 PM - Re: Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Oshkosh (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
52. 06:55 PM - Re: Re: Suggested product (Gary Boothe)
53. 06:57 PM - nicopress sleeve sizes (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
54. 07:04 PM - Rib Drawing (Doug Dever)
55. 07:23 PM - Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA (Robert Ray)
56. 07:23 PM - Re: Rib Drawing (Rick Holland)
57. 07:23 PM - Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets (Robert Ray)
58. 07:46 PM - Re: portable tie downs (BYD)
59. 07:55 PM - Re: Re: portable tie downs (Gary Boothe)
60. 08:08 PM - Re: nicopress sleeve sizes (Robert Ray)
61. 08:25 PM - Re: Rib Drawing (Bill Church)
62. 08:25 PM - Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets (Doug Dever)
63. 08:47 PM - Re: Rib Drawing (Ryan Mueller)
64. 08:48 PM - Re: Riblett 612 (Mark Roberts)
65. 09:04 PM - Re: Re: portable tie downs (Ryan Mueller)
66. 09:13 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Steve Ruse)
67. 09:14 PM - Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets (Bill Church)
68. 10:07 PM - Re: Fuselage building and materialokume ply;Q; (jorge lizarraga)
69. 10:39 PM - Re: Re: ASSCO,inc (Ryan Mueller)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Duly noted. Thank you!
The majority of that work was done 6 years ago! WW said that if I followed
his assembly procedures, he was not worried about how long the engine sat.
The clock's still ticking...
At that time, I had two sets of plans: Pietenpol and Zodiac 601. I confess
that I went over to the Dark Side (High & Fast) for about 4 years, but now
I'm back and clear headed.
I'll be working on the starter mount this weekend, though I still need the
ring gear to complete that.
Gary
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 10:46 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
Gary,
I see the billet oil pan, the gold hub, and I believe part of the dynamo
mount in the background. While those parts are all well and good, I think
the very clean Corvair that you assembled dominates that picture!
We don't take short-change here. :P
Ryan
do not archive
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:26 AM, Gary Boothe <gboothe5@comcast.net> wrote:
Thanks, Mark, but the real credit goes to William Wynne for making cool
looking stuff. I'm just happy to get the engine off the floor!!
BTW - that firewall took 4 hours, including the wood formers (some old
particle board shelves removed from the notorious kitchen remodel).
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:53 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
Galvanized? Stainless? What are you talking about? All I saw was a bad
ass engine. Way Cool!
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259888#259888
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Yep, WW's stuff is cool. I've been sold for a little while now and I plan to order
the gold package that he was advertising at Brodhead. My heads are in the
shop, crank will be there soon, next to tackle cylinders, pistons, rods. I
hope to work on my rebuild this winter.
Keeping the thread intact... The firewall looks great too. Looks like a lot of
work to make all those bends... very nicely done. What did you do exactly?
Is there a special tool that makes those bends so uniform, Or did you grab a pair
of pliers and start bending? Surely just another one of the many techniques
I haven't heard of or read about yet.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259920#259920
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| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
I am now thinking I will use okoume ply for the large fuselage sheets. I am
wondering if this same plywood is good for all the-other gussets on the
fuselage as well.- I will use 1/8" side sheets and would like to use the
excess of the 4X8 sheet to do the small fuselage gussets.
Message 4
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I've only had a few dealings with AS&S. One order was for 90 sticks of 1/4"x1/2"
capstrip. I would say that probably 15 - 20 sticks were bowed or twisted enough
to make me more than a little aggravated. I was able to straighten them
a bit during the bending process, but I don't think I should have to do that.
I set most of those aside for cutting diagonals and uprights. I know that they
want to know about any sub-par product, but I've heard that it is a bit of
a task. Another aggrivating experience was when I ordered my wood package...
I was told that the wood packages normally leave the warehouse within 7-10 days...
mine took >4 weeks. It was either 4 or 5, I'd have to look it up... but
it wasn't the two week delivery I was told it would likely be. In addition to
that, during the several weeks of time that my wood kit was in cue or being
cut, there were several items that were filled on my order that were later placed
on backorder. I'm not sure how they show an item pulled (or filled) for the
order that later becomes unavailable. Oh, I assume that they used these items
to fill another order, but it wasn't right that I waited 3 weeks for my wood
to be cut, and then another for them to fill the plywood requirement that was
already completed a week earlier. There were some other items that were filled
early that we later placed on backorder that would have delayed my order
another week or two... so I canceled those items. I like being able to check
my order on the web, but they shouldn't post an item as filled and then change
the status to back order. If it wasn't available in the first place, that is
one thing, but don't state that a certain item is filled and then pull it back.
One other thing, and I don't know who's fault this is (the shipper or AS&S),
but my plywood packaging was ripped open (looks like forklift forks). An inspection
confirmed that the wood was not damaged other then a very minor and
sand-able scratch. I hope it wasn't stressed in a way that isn't visually evident.
I w!
ill say
that the wood package seems to be of very good quality. I honestly haven't taken
a complete inventory (I know... shame on me)... I hope it's all there.
GPS STUFF...
Lowrence is no Garmin, that is for sure! But, my experience with Garmin has been
fairly pleasant. I purchased a hand held (H2O) back in 2004... it was advertised
to be waterproof, vibe proof, etc., so I proceeded to RAM mount it to the
handlebars of my enduro. The first trip in the wilderness and rain rendered
it useless... the screen was half blank and the other half was very faint.
Very aggravating considering that was the main selling point of the H2O line.
I'll admit, it was raining pretty good most of the day, but it's not like it
was submerged. Anyhow, I had the unit for quite a while (beyond the warranty),
and the Lowrance folks swapped me out with a brand new unit with no hassle at
all. I still have the unit that I received and it seems to be holding up well.
I'll admit, I don't use it on my motorcycle unless I need it, but with a
little extra care it seems to keep working fine. I use it for vacations, astronomy,
etc., so it gets tossed around a little.
Ok, so I don't really have a lot of experience with Lowrance, but where I have
had to deal with them, it wasn't my worst experience. I chose them because they
were a local company, and because several people told me that they were able
to walk right into their facility and get replacement cables, transponders,
etc. for fishing and GPS gear. Figured I'd give them a try.
My brother has a Garmin e-trex Vista (similar to the H2O line)... while the e-trex
is more compact, the functions are menu driven by a joystick, which is very
difficult to manipulate and find features unless you use it regularly. That
is the BIG advantage to the more intuitive Lowrance products... very intuitive
button layout and menus. On the other hand...I work with 6 or 7 former Lowrance
employees... their comments have really made me skeptical of considering
any more of their products. I know, FORMER EMPLOYEES, right? Well, several of
them are very knowledgeable about the practices and product line, and their
assessment seems legit.
Having said all that... I have a Garmin GPS MAP195 that I wouldn't trade for any
other unit. Simple and reliable... for my type of flying (mostly hanger flying)
it is waay overkill.
Steve... I have a card reader for my H2O that you are welcome to borrow if it will
get your unit going. I'm assuming that all the Lowrance units use the same
type of card? Are you going to be in the Tulsa area anytime soon? If not,
I can mail it down with the software. Being in Norman, you are probably a dirty,
low down Sooners fan, but I won't hold that against you. Let me know if you
would like to try it.
Holy smokes that was a long spiel... I'm bored.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
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Message 5
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| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
this is what I did. Okoume marine plywood
From: speedbrake@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
I am now thinking I will use okoume ply for the large fuselage sheets. I am
wondering if this same plywood is good for all the other gussets on the fu
selage as well. I will use 1/8" side sheets and would like to use the exce
ss of the 4X8 sheet to do the small fuselage gussets.
Message 6
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| Subject: | really a great web link |
If any of you like old biplanes, old movie and air show pilots--- some grea
t background stories
and history of the planes and pilots-this site is incredibly good. htt
p://americanbiplane.com
Mike C.
do not archive
Message 7
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| Subject: | attaching the front bay cover |
I am trying to figure out how I want to attach the cover over the fuel tank in
the front of my GN-1 fuselage.The simplest way would be just to screw it onto
the top longeron.but I would eventually want to get in there and inspect wiring,tank
mount straps ect. and if I don't move the battery farther back it will
be under there too. so I want it to be removable without a great deal of trouble.I
don't like the idea of removing screws fro the longerons and having holes
that would let moisture in to start rot.what have you folks that have yours done
used for that? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259943#259943
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Cheap compact tie downs |
Group, P.F. Beck had a simply engenious idea for portable tie downs.- I b
elieve he said to just get 3 lengths of chain (about 4-6 in I guess) and a
threaded repair link, and 3 stakes.- Just put the 3 lengths out in a merc
edes logo with the threaded quick link in the middle, drive the 3 stakes,
-and tie your rope to the center link.- This would be very easy to stuf
f in any nook and cranny you could find.- It would be much more compact t
han my spurr of the moment wooden triangles I used for Brodhead and OSH thi
s year.-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 9
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| Subject: | GL 1, GL2 plywood |
Group, I have been using GL1, 2 grade European Finnish Birch ply on my Jung
ster.- It seems to be a little cheaper than mil spec us ply.- It is onl
y available fromm a.s.s. in 4x4 sheets though.- I would say it is at leas
t as good as mil spec plywood, and some of the 2.5-3.0mm I have is 5 ply in
stead of 3, very strong stuff.- It also looks a little nicer than some mi
l spec birch ply.- Look it up online, G.L. stands for German Loyd, and is
the standard for marine birch in europe.- GL1 grade is the best, GL2 is
still aircraft grade, and GL3 I believe is non structural /marine use only.
-
-
Shad=0A=0A=0A
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: attaching the front bay cover |
Well, you could hinge it on one side and have a latch(es) on the other.-
Or run some short length of piano hinge on both sides and just remove the p
ins when you need to get in there.-- (or you could run piano hinge the
full length of the cover on both sides and just remove one pin...either sid
e.
-
You c
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> wrote:
From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: attaching the front bay cover
I am trying to figure out how I want to attach the cover over the fuel tank
in the front of my GN-1 fuselage.The simplest way would be just to screw i
t onto the top longeron.but I would eventually want to get in there and ins
pect wiring,tank mount straps ect. and if I don't move the battery farther
back it will be under there too. so I want it to be removable without a gre
at deal of trouble.I don't like the idea of removing screws fro the longero
ns and having holes that would let moisture in to start rot.what have you f
olks that have yours done used for that? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259943#259943
le, List Admin.
Message 11
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I Hate Lowrance, I have the Airmap GPS that I purchased brand new It may be
the 500 unit. It works great however there is no way I can get an update
for my charts so its no longer accurate nor can t be since noone supports
that system nor are that style card available.
Here I have a well operating unity that's only as good as the map data card
Jepp charts which are grossly obsolete. There is no 3rd party producing
the cards or mounting charts so either I fly with that or I buy a new one.
I will never buy, borrow, beg or steal another Lowrance product. That
company just plane Sucks and that's the good part.
I would have liked to get more than 12 months of life and one chart upgrade
for the money. You would think they would have supported their obsolete
equipment or had a 3rd party in line for support, rather than dumping the
line so we all have to buy new from them. Not me again, not never. Those
jerks can choke on their lousy crummy rotten attitude towards customer support
and go straight to He11, in my humble opinion and for what its worth I hope
ASS is watching too so they know they will never get me buying a Lowrance
product from them or any other company.
Message 12
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Excuse me folks. A fellow lover of the blue may be in trouble....
I wish "The Greatest Spectacle in Recine" would really say what's on
his mind instead of beating around the bush.
do not archive
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:53 AM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
> I Hate Lowrance, I have the Airmap GPS that I purchased brand new It
> may be the 500 unit. It works great however there is no way I can
> get an update for my charts so its no longer accurate nor can t be
> since noone supports that system nor are that style card available.
>
> Here I have a well operating unity that's only as good as the map
> data card Jepp charts which are grossly obsolete. There is no 3rd
> party producing the cards or mounting charts so either I fly with
> that or I buy a new one.
>
> I will never buy, borrow, beg or steal another Lowrance product.
> That company just plane Sucks and that's the good part.
>
> I would have liked to get more than 12 months of life and one chart
> upgrade for the money. You would think they would have supported
> their obsolete equipment or had a 3rd party in line for support,
> rather than dumping the line so we all have to buy new from them.
> Not me again, not never. Those jerks can choke on their lousy
> crummy rotten attitude towards customer support and go straight to
> He11, in my humble opinion and for what its worth I hope ASS is
> watching too so they know they will never get me buying a Lowrance
> product from them or any other company.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
The plans do not call for a specific type of plywood to be used.
Probably whatever the norm was back in 1934. I would assume that the
glues used today are superior to those of 75 years ago.
I'm planning to use Marine Okoume throughout my fuselage. I haven't done
a proper material layout, but I think it would be a very tight squeeze
to get ALL of the 1/8" ply parts out of a single 4' x 8' sheet (fuse
sides, fuse and tail gussets, seat bottoms, seat backs, firewall,
turtledeck formers, instrument panels, etc. etc.), so I bought two
sheets, which added a whopping $40 or so to my material costs. But, in
the long run, I'm sure it will have saved me money, since we all end up
making a few "extra" parts, and on the day that I realize that I need a
few more square feet of 1/8" plywood, I won't have to go buy another
sheet. Just something to keep in mind -- especially if you're having
plywood shipped.
Bill C.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: attaching the front bay cover |
Or the hinge on one side and a strap to hold it down...Like Dale and Greg did on
their engine...that would be quick and easy.
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Perez
Sent: Aug 27, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: attaching the front bay cover
Well, you could hinge it on one side and have a latch(es) on the other. Or run
some short length of piano hinge on both sides and just remove the pins when
you need to get in there. (or you could run piano hinge the full length of the
cover on both sides and just remove one pin...either side.
You c
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> wrote:
From: skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net>
Subject: Pietenpol-List: attaching the front bay cover
I am trying to figure out how I want to attach the cover over the fuel tank in
the front of my GN-1 fuselage.The simplest way would be just to screw it onto
the top longeron.but I would eventually want to get in there and inspect wiring,tank
mount straps ect. and if I don't move the battery farther back it will
be under there too. so I want it to be removable without a great deal of trouble.I
don't like the idea of removing screws fro the longerons and having holes
that would let moisture in to start rot.what have you folks that have yours done
used for that? Raymond
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259943#25994= - The Pietenpol-List Email Forum -
http://www.matronics.com/Na=======================
Message 15
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I'm with ya John... I'll not give them another chance either most likely. I saved
a few bucks on the personal GPS, but glad I spent the extra $$ on the aviation
gear. You certainly get what you pay for in this case. Garmin discontinued
the GPS MAP195 about 6 years ago, but I can still log on, purchase an update,
plug in my serial cable (not some proprietary junk) and voila, I'm flying
with the latest and greatest. The GPS MAP195 was a very popular model... I hope
that means that they will continue to support it for a while.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259985#259985
Message 16
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Yeah, come on John-don't candy coat it. Tell us your real feelings. Y
ou know BIG BROTHER Jim Irwin (yeah right-more like a admin. asst)
is watching our posts. You don't see Wicks jumping in on lists do you ?
They are too busy getting orders right and making sure they HAVE what
is in their catalogs IN STOCK !
Message 17
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| Subject: | any real WWII aviation historians here? |
On or about March 3, 1942 army air corps bomber squadron was stationed
in
Panama. During which time the illegal nose are was being painted on those
ships, mostly anonymously. One of the artist was a young fellow named Nick
Maltese. A graduate of the students art league of New York.
Much if not all the nose art went unclaimed and unsigned as difficult as
it
may sound I am looking for some of is work?
Any ideas or assistance on how to find it is greatly appreciated
John
FYI Following is a bit of the family bio
Nick and Frank served in the same theater of operations in the same combat
zone. Frank, who is now 87, was an instructor of aircraft trade classes at
Chanute Field, Ill., and was trained for the 6th Air Force 365th Material
Squadron & Heavy Bombardment Group. He arrived in Panama on March 3, 1942,
after six days and nights, but after the first three of six ships made it
through the canal, the last three ships were ordered to disembark
immediately. These men, including Frank, instead lived isolated in a jung
le outpost
for 2 1=BC2 years.
He spent the majority of his time guarding the Pacific entrance to the
Panama Canal, and was stationed at the Rio Hato Air Base in Panama. His
responsibilities included defending the air field, maintaining bombers and
fighters, tracking enemy submarines and rescuing downed aircraft. He also
became
a rear gunner by accident, trained to use a 30-caliber water-cooled gun by
a
commander who couldn't locate his men when an alert signal went off.
After serving overseas, Frank was sent to the McClellan Air Base in
California in June, 1944, in preparation for traveling to Guam. During a
two-week
furlough, he went home to New Brunswick to marry his high school
sweetheart and his current wife of 62 years, Florence Nicholson.
(javascript:openimage('029p3_xlg.jpg',472,304)) Nick MalteseHowever,
after the atomic bomb was dropped in 1945, the war ended and his service
was
over. The staff sergeant never returned overseas, but was instead honorab
ly
discharged in October of that year. He received the American Service, Goo
d
Conduct, New Jersey Distinguished Service and Victory medals.
Nick, who is now 88, also enlisted in the Air Corps on Jan. 9, 1942. He
arrived in Panama on the same day as Frank, and was also responsible for
guarding the entrance to the Panama Canal on the Pacific side. He was an
aide
to the commanding general, Lt. General Hubert R. Harmon, on special
assignments operating out of Airbrook Field in the Panama Canal Zone. He
was the
only enlisted person who was allowed to fly over the canal itself without
being shot down.
After his service of 2 1=BC2 years, he too was sent back to the McClellan
base on June 8, 1944, in preparation for the invasion of Japan. However,
after the war ended, he was discharged on Oct. 16, 1945. He received the
American Service, Good Conduct and Victory medals.
Message 18
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| Subject: | AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at Oshkosh |
Did you notice on the site map of AirVenture that ASSco bought the naming r
ights for Exhibit Building A ?
It is now called the Aircraft Spruce & Specialty Exhibit Hangar A. Ben
dix-King by Honeywell bought the naming
rights to Exhibit Hangar B.
I love going to Oshkosh-I love the air show, the show planes, the homebuilt
s, the antiques, the warbirds and I
fully understand that many of the improvements to the grounds were probably
paid for, in part, by the ever-increasing
corporate sponsorships that EAA has formed over the past years. But (you
knew there was going to be a but, didn't you ?)
EAA is prostituting out quite a few things and can't say I blame them if AS
SCo and other companies have the bucks to do it.
I'm looking forward to landing on the Purple, Yellow, or Green dots on the
runway someday down the road at Oshkosh but
just might hear the controller tell me "blue and white high wing, cleared
to land on the Land-0-Lakes Butter Yellow dot".
I dealt with WICKS and some with AS&S for almost 5 years and I can say HAND
S DOWN, no doubt in my mind that I got
better service, better prices, better quality, faster shipment, and almost
NO backordered items when I dealt with WICKS
and the people manning the phones at WICKS were not 18 year old ladies who
didn't know a nose tire inner tube from a spark plug
(or 18 year old young man) but the people at WICKS were technically-minded
and knew their products.
AS& S caters (I think) to the BIG BUCK builders out there who can simply sh
oot a money gun at their projects and spend $15K here
for a glass panel (or more), and 10K there like it was $50 bucks to us.
They don't need to cater to the little people like us who
might only need $25 dollars worth of AN hardware then come to find out some
of it won't arrive for weeks because it might be
backordered. That's just my experience with AS&S. It is nice that AS&
S tries to right their wrongs but if you don't want to
have to spend time correcting their wrongs by calling them, shipping crappy
materials back, trying to get backordered items
before you start collecting Social Security, don't deal with them-go to Wic
ks.
Mike C.
Message 19
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| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
That's right Bill, I'll be getting 2- 4X8 sheets of 1/8" and- one of the
1/4".- That gives me one full sheet of 1/8" and the cut off from the othe
r 1/8" for the other various plywood parts. Same with the 1/4".
-
Looks like I can get the Okoume stuff from Boulter for cheap...cut and ship
ped.
-
--- On Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
The plans do not call for a specific type of plywood to be used. Probably w
hatever the norm was back in 1934. I would assume that the glues used today
are superior to those of 75 years ago.-
I'm planning to use Marine Okoume throughout my fuselage. I haven't done a
proper material layout, but I think it would be a very tight squeeze to get
-ALL of the 1/8" ply parts out of a single 4' x 8' sheet (fuse sides, fus
e and tail gussets, seat bottoms, seat backs, firewall, turtledeck formers,
instrument panels, etc. etc.), so I bought two sheets, which added a whopp
ing $40 or so to my material costs. But, in the long run, I'm sure it will
have saved me money, since we all end up making a few "extra" parts, and on
the day that I realize that I need a few more square feet of 1/8" plywood,
I won't have to go buy another sheet. Just something to keep in mind -- es
pecially if you're having plywood shipped.
-
Bill C.
-
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: any real WWII aviation historians here? |
I'm not sure about WWII art, but that hair is some work of art. Is that Alice
from the Brady Bunch?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260002#260002
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at |
Oshkosh
Dang... I wasn't issued a money gun. Wrong MOS I guess.
Alright, you have convinced me Mike. I have to be honest... I've never even looked
at Wicks. I had a AS&S catalog, so what little exposure I've had with ordering
airplane stuff I've done with them . I need some turnbuckles, cable, thimbles,
etc., so I will at least do some comparison shopping this afternoon.
Notice I did not mention the Nicopress tool... I've got my scouts out at Home Depot
looking for one of those. Thanks John.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260004#260004
Message 22
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John,
Under risk of having an Airmap GPS 500 thrown at my head, have you seen
this:
http://www.lei-extras.com/store/jepp_db.asp
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:53 AM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
> I Hate Lowrance, I have the Airmap GPS that I purchased brand new It may
> be the 500 unit. It works great however there is no way I can get an update
> for my charts so its no longer accurate nor can t be since noone supports
> that system nor are that style card available.
>
> Here I have a well operating unity that's only as good as the map data card
> Jepp charts which are grossly obsolete. There is no 3rd party producing the
> cards or mounting charts so either I fly with that or I buy a new one.
>
> I will never buy, borrow, beg or steal another Lowrance product. That
> company just plane Sucks and that's the good part.
>
> I would have liked to get more than 12 months of life and one chart upgrade
> for the money. You would think they would have supported their obsolete
> equipment or had a 3rd party in line for support, rather than dumping the
> line so we all have to buy new from them. Not me again, not never. Those
> jerks can choke on their lousy crummy rotten attitude towards customer
> support and go straight to He11, in my humble opinion and for what its worth
> I hope ASS is watching too so they know they will never get me buying a
> Lowrance product from them or any other company.
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
I bought most of my AN hardware, cables, sheet, tube, and streamlined tubing, turnbuckles
from Dillsburg. If you call them they'll mail you a catalog.
I used the Wicks and ACS catalogs to figure out what I would need to order and
then would
just call Dillsburg and they take your order over the phone and ship it ground
UPS that day.
You get the bill and pay them via check after your stuff arrives-- old fashioned
outfit but
it must work for them.
You have to really know what you want and what you're talking about to order from
Dillsburg
as the people there can take a list of 25 different items and quantities in about
2 minutes--zip,
zip, you read off what you want and they box it, ship it and get it out to you.
Some days I would call at lunchtime for hardware and it would be on my porch the
NEXT day. (but
Ohio is right next to PA (home of John Recine) so it didn't take long at all but
they mean
business when they take and order and they ship FAST.
Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
114 Sawmill Rd
Dillsburg, PA 17
They do not have a web site nor do I believe that they take credit cards.
PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for telephone
cable nicopress sleeves.
I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale soon
! (sorry....it's true)
There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the nicopress
world and I forget
what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The only size
nico sleeves I used
on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
Mike C
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: attaching the front bay cover |
Raymond,
Here is how I did it on my GN-1 -- I used three PK screws into the
longerons and two camlock fittings secured to the edge (per plans) of
the firewall. Not too hard. Regards, Tom
On Aug 27, 2009, at 11:19 AM, skellytown flyer wrote:
> >
>
> I am trying to figure out how I want to attach the cover over the
> fuel tank in the front of my GN-1 fuselage.The simplest way would be
> just to screw it onto the top longeron.but I would eventually want
> to get in there and inspect wiring,tank mount straps ect. and if I
> don't move the battery farther back it will be under there too. so I
> want it to be removable without a great deal of trouble.I don't like
> the idea of removing screws fro the longerons and having holes that
> would let moisture in to start rot.what have you folks that have
> yours done used for that? Raymond
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259943#259943
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Mark,
Yes, the tool is highly specialized! As you can see, I used some old
particle board. You need two pieces; one with the 'flutes' carved into it (I
used a dremel) and another without the flutes - the back up piece. You
merely sandwich the metal between the two pieces, clamp very tightly, and
start tapping. You can use fluting pliers (mine are made from an old pair of
vice grips) to help get the shape going, but what you really need is a dowel
or steel tube of the right dimension, to hammer the metal down into the
flutes. It is truly that easy! And galvanized bends very easily.
Best wishes on your engine rebuild....
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 5:53 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
Yep, WW's stuff is cool. I've been sold for a little while now and I plan
to order the gold package that he was advertising at Brodhead. My heads are
in the shop, crank will be there soon, next to tackle cylinders, pistons,
rods. I hope to work on my rebuild this winter.
Keeping the thread intact... The firewall looks great too. Looks like a lot
of work to make all those bends... very nicely done. What did you do
exactly? Is there a special tool that makes those bends so uniform, Or did
you grab a pair of pliers and start bending? Surely just another one of the
many techniques I haven't heard of or read about yet.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259920#259920
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
Hmmm, I need a better look... can I borrow that for a minute? 8)
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260025#260025
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
Phone number: **717-432-4589
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> I bought most of my AN hardware, cables, sheet, tube, and streamlined
> tubing, turnbuckles
> from Dillsburg. If you call them they'll mail you a catalog.
>
> I used the Wicks and ACS catalogs to figure out what I would need to order
> and then would
> just call Dillsburg and they take your order over the phone and ship it
> ground UPS that day.
> You get the bill and pay them via check after your stuff arrives-- old
> fashioned outfit but
> it must work for them.
>
> You have to really know what you want and what you're talking about to
> order from Dillsburg
> as the people there can take a list of 25 different items and quantities in
> about 2 minutes--zip,
> zip, you read off what you want and they box it, ship it and get it out to
> you.
>
> Some days I would call at lunchtime for hardware and it would be on my
> porch the NEXT day. (but
> Ohio is right next to PA (home of John Recine) so it didn't take long at
> all but they mean
> business when they take and order and they ship FAST.
>
> Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
> 114 Sawmill Rd
> Dillsburg, PA 17
>
> They do not have a web site nor do I believe that they take credit cards.
>
> PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
> telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
> I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale
> soon ! (sorry....it's true)
> There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the
> nicopress world and I forget
> what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
> only size nico sleeves I used
> on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
>
> Mike C
Message 28
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| Subject: | Suggested product |
Forget the Corvair (they almost always look good) and your sweet firewall; I
want to know more about those spectacular wheels.
Mike Hardaway
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
John,
Are you looking for something other than galvanized or stainless? Here's my
galvanized.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
Any suggestions on sources and material to be used as fire protection layer
between firewall and bulkhead?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
http://www.nicopress.com/C2.htm#_Hlk1143190811,351,404,0,,Nicopress%20%C2%AE%20Copper%20&%20Zinc%20Plated
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 3:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
> telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
> I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale
> soon ! (sorry....it's true)
> There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the
> nicopress world and I forget
> what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
> only size nico sleeves I used
> on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
>
> Mike C
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at |
Oshkosh
Wicks called ME up once. That was a switch. They were doing a survey about their
service, and wanted to know how they could improve etc. I told them it was
as good as I've ever seen, and that I don't often say that. I think I made
his day, but then they've made my day, more than once.
Paul
Read this topic online here:
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Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: attaching the front bay cover |
thanks for the tips guys.some good ideas there.I just got home from the hardware
store-picked up some T-nuts and long screws.I think in the the interest of-(
I'm gonna finish this thing if it kills me) mentality. I'll forego the hinge
though it is an excellent idea and glue a piece below the longeron so as not to
have to drill more holes in it and go through with long screws into it and put
a little epoxy on the T nuts in hopes that the prongs will stay embedded in
the wood and I won't have to stand on my head to remove them later.thanks again
guys.Raymond and Tim that red fuselage is just like mine! I like the color
and I'll be leaving my wings and tail in Silver
Read this topic online here:
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building |
A at Os...
I found B&B to be a really good hardware source . So far I got my orders
for almost everything each time. According to Rick he called right after I
did . I ordered all they had of turnbuckles one day except for one. Rick
called and the told him some guy just ordered every thing they had except for
one and did he want that one?
I found that out from Rick as he was telling me the story of a day late and
a dollar short. We had a good laugh over that one.
Hardware I would check with B&B aircraft supplies in Kansasa
John
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: attaching the front bay cover |
A tip when using Tee nuts, put a small pan head screw in the material right
in the indentation formed by the bent prong. This will help retain the tee
nut in a blind/remote location.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 4:02 PM, skellytown flyer <rhano@att.net> wrote:
>
> thanks for the tips guys.some good ideas there.I just got home from the
> hardware store-picked up some T-nuts and long screws.I think in the the
> interest of-( I'm gonna finish this thing if it kills me) mentality. I'll
> forego the hinge though it is an excellent idea and glue a piece below the
> longeron so as not to have to drill more holes in it and go through with
> long screws into it and put a little epoxy on the T nuts in hopes that the
> prongs will stay embedded in the wood and I won't have to stand on my head
> to remove them later.thanks again guys.Raymond and Tim that red fuselage is
> just like mine! I like the color and I'll be leaving my wings and tail in
> Silver
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260034#260034
>
>
--
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or
not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." --British
publisher and writer Ernest Benn (1875-1954)
Message 34
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Ryan,
that's okay I had the wrong model number once I was Lowrance violated and
disgusted I put it in my flight bag never to be looked at again. My error,
mine is the airmap 300 and have no idea where or how to read the existing
card to upgrade it.
That's not to say if you have some ideas, other than paper weight or out
dated data deviceI am all ears
John
Message 35
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| Subject: | AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
And here's a link to a scanned copy of the Dillsburg catalog, from a few
years ago.
http://www.mykitplane.com/Planes/PeoplesFiles/Dillsburg.pdf
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan
Mueller
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name
it--- Dillsburg Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
Phone number: 717-432-4589
Message 36
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hey guys, good news! I start my assertive training classes next month, I
can wait its a personal development thing I been needing to work on for many
years and struggled to break out of shell, no more Mr..Shy Mr. Doormat
reserved any more. I am gonna start letting people what I really think I am
gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
John
Message 37
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I have the 600 (which is a full 300 better than yours) so nyah!
do not archive.
John Hofmann
Vice-President, Information Technology
The Rees Group, Inc.
2810 Crossroads Drive, Ste 3800
Madison, WI 53718
Phone: 608.443.2468 ext 150
Fax: 608.443.2474
Email: jhofmann@reesgroupinc.com
On Aug 27, 2009, at 3:42 PM, AMsafetyC@aol.com wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> that's okay I had the wrong model number once I was Lowrance
> violated and disgusted I put it in my flight bag never to be looked
> at again. My error, mine is the airmap 300 and have no idea where or
> how to read the existing card to upgrade it.
>
> That's not to say if you have some ideas, other than paper weight or
> out dated data deviceI am all ears
>
> John
>
>
Message 38
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| Subject: | Re: Progress Report |
I built a very strong, accurate (within 1/32" everywhere) and fairly
lightweight table using pallet rack hardware. Total cost about $300. The
definition of "fairly lightweight" being that my son and I could pick up and
move around a 4ft x 20ft table, although we never carried it very far. I
have a pdf file showing the construction technique if anyone is interested.
It is about 3 Mbytes so I don't want to clutter the list by posting it.
However, here is a picture of the completed table. The whole concept is
scalable up and down, so a smaller or larger table can easily be
constructed.
Steve Sadler
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 7:27 PM, Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb@charter.net> wrote:
> jimdeb@charter.net>
>
> I built my wings on a table consisting of two used hollow panel doors
> which were joined by stringers on each side to make one long table on saw
> horses. Worked just fine. The doors cost me $20 total from
> a building mat'l reuse place. The spars were set up on 2 by 4's and the
> ribs slid on.--Jim Lagowski
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
> To: <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 9:33 AM
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report
>
>
>>
>> Having never done this before (full scale) I just took a page out of Tony
>> Bengelis' construction manuals (and some R/C experience) and built a
>> vertical jig. I never really considered building them on a table top. I
>> did build a few R/C wings back in the 80s on a table top, but I've used an
>> elevated wing jig on those too since the early 90s. To answer you question
>> Gary... yes, I slid my ribs into place while the spars were supported by the
>> jig. I hope this method works out ok. The only thing I am concerned about
>> is that the jig supports are 8' apart (the width of my workbench), so I may
>> encounter some sagging in the middle (?) not sure. I'll take some
>> measurements tonight to see if an extra support might be required.
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions concerning this method?
>>
>> --------
>> Mark - working on wings
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259457#259457
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 12:55:00
>
>
Message 39
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I hate when that happens
do not archive
John
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building |
A at Os...
I went to B &B again at Oshkosh and they still hadn't gotten in all of the turnbuckles
I needed after John wiped out their stock. With a few modifications (
like using long ends instead of the sort ends) I was able to get what I needed
except for one turnbuckle end, I had to bite the bullet and go over to ACSS and
order it. At least they didn't charge me shipping!
After I got back from Oshkosh, I finished all of my cabling and got my tailwheel
mounted. Right now I am taking a break before I put the remaining fuselage side
on this evening! Then its on to the main gear and the engine rebuild.
Rick Schreiber
Valparaiso, IN
----- Original Message -----
From:
Sent: 8/27/2009 3:18:13 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building
A at Os...
I found B&B to be a really good hardware source . So far I got my orders for almost
everything each time. According to Rick he called right after I did . I ordered
all they had of turnbuckles one day except for one. Rick called and the
told him some guy just ordered every thing they had except for one and did he
want that one?
I found that out from Rick as he was telling me the story of a day late and a dollar
short. We had a good laugh over that one.
Hardware I would check with B&B aircraft supplies in Kansasa
John
Message 41
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I can't tell you how thrilled I am......
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Aug 27, 2009 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
hey guys, good news! I start my assertive training classes next month, I
can wait its a personal development thing I been needing to work on for many
years and struggled to break out of shell, no more Mr..Shy Mr. Doormat
reserved any more. I am gonna start letting people what I really think I am
gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
John
Message 42
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Oh crap.
-----Original Message-----
From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Aug 27, 2009 3:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
hey guys, good news! I start my assertive training classes next month, I
can wait its a personal development thing I been needing to work on for
many years and struggled to break out of shell, no more Mr..Shy Mr.
Doormat reserved any more. I am gonna start letting people what I really
think I am gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
John
Message 43
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My wife and I were going to take assertiveness training together but there
was room for only one of us in that session. Now she won't let me go.
For heaven's sake Do Not Archive.
Stinemetze
____ | ____
\8/
/ \
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:STINEMETZE, TOM
TEL;WORK:620-245-2548
ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM
N:STINEMETZE;TOM
TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN.
END:VCARD
BEGIN:VCARD
VERSION:2.1
X-GWTYPE:USER
FN:STINEMETZE, TOM
TEL;WORK:620-245-2548
ORG:;ZONING & PLANNING
EMAIL;WORK;PREF;NGW:TOMS@MCPCITY.COM
N:STINEMETZE;TOM
TITLE:CITY SANITATION / ZONING ADMIN.
END:VCARD
Message 44
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building A at |
Oshkosh
I've had problems with AS&S before, items they said were in stock but were then
back ordered and so on, so have used Wicks for a long time. I decided to give
AS&S another try a few months ago on a wood order, most of it came OK, I'm
sure it meets the mil spec, but it isn't as nice as the stuff from Wicks, and
one piece was missing. I called numerous times and kept getting "we'll take care
of it", and finally after six weeks the missing piece showed up, and it looked
like they bought it at Lowe's, although it might have 6 rings per inch.
Back to Wicks for wood, although AS&S sometimes does have good prices on hardware
and etc. Wicks is definitely better for quality and customer service.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260071#260071
Message 45
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| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
The telephone company are the ones that invented Nicopress fittings. As far as
I know there is no difference between a telephone company Nicopress tool and
an "aircraft" Nicopress tool for the same wire diameter.
Rodney
---- Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com> wrote:
> Phone number: **717-432-4589
>
>> > PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
> > telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
> > I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale
> > soon ! (sorry....it's true)
> > There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the
> > nicopress world and I forget
> > what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
> > only size nico sleeves I used
> > on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
> >
> > Mike C
Message 46
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| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
Hi Mike,
What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is the
same either way, telephone or aircraft.
Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4
bays on it labeled G,C,M,P
Thanks
Joe Motis
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> I bought most of my AN hardware, cables, sheet, tube, and streamlined
> tubing, turnbuckles
> from Dillsburg. If you call them they'll mail you a catalog.
>
> I used the Wicks and ACS catalogs to figure out what I would need to order
> and then would
> just call Dillsburg and they take your order over the phone and ship it
> ground UPS that day.
> You get the bill and pay them via check after your stuff arrives-- old
> fashioned outfit but
> it must work for them.
>
> You have to really know what you want and what you're talking about to
> order from Dillsburg
> as the people there can take a list of 25 different items and quantities in
> about 2 minutes--zip,
> zip, you read off what you want and they box it, ship it and get it out to
> you.
>
> Some days I would call at lunchtime for hardware and it would be on my
> porch the NEXT day. (but
> Ohio is right next to PA (home of John Recine) so it didn't take long at
> all but they mean
> business when they take and order and they ship FAST.
>
> Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
> 114 Sawmill Rd
> Dillsburg, PA 17
>
> They do not have a web site nor do I believe that they take credit cards.
>
> PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
> telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
> I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for sale
> soon ! (sorry....it's true)
> There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in the
> nicopress world and I forget
> what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
> only size nico sleeves I used
> on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's it.
>
> Mike C
>
>
Message 47
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| Subject: | Re: Progress Report |
Steve=2C
I be interested in it
Emal: chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com
Doug Dever
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report
From: steven244sadler@gmail.com
I built a very strong=2C accurate (within 1/32" everywhere) and fairly ligh
tweight table using pallet rack hardware. Total cost about $300. The defini
tion of "fairly lightweight" being that my son and I could pick up and move
around a 4ft x 20ft table=2C although we never carried it very far. I have
a pdf file showing the construction technique if anyone is interested. It
is about 3 Mbytes so I don't want to clutter the list by posting it. Howeve
r=2C here is a picture of the completed table. The whole concept is scalabl
e up and down=2C so a smaller or larger table can easily be constructed.
Steve Sadler
On Tue=2C Aug 25=2C 2009 at 7:27 PM=2C Lagowski Morrow <jimdeb@charter.net>
wrote:
>
I built my wings on a table consisting of two used hollow panel doors whic
h were joined by stringers on each side to make one long table on saw horse
s. Worked just fine. The doors cost me $20 total from
a building mat'l reuse place. The spars were set up on 2 by 4's and the rib
s slid on.--Jim Lagowski
----- Original Message ----- From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
Sent: Tuesday=2C August 25=2C 2009 9:33 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Progress Report
Having never done this before (full scale) I just took a page out of Tony B
engelis' construction manuals (and some R/C experience) and built a vertica
l jig. I never really considered building them on a table top. I did buil
d a few R/C wings back in the 80s on a table top=2C but I've used an elevat
ed wing jig on those too since the early 90s. To answer you question Gary.
.. yes=2C I slid my ribs into place while the spars were supported by the j
ig. I hope this method works out ok. The only thing I am concerned about
is that the jig supports are 8' apart (the width of my workbench)=2C so I m
ay encounter some sagging in the middle (?) not sure. I'll take some measur
ements tonight to see if an extra support might be required.
Anyone have any suggestions concerning this method?
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=259457#259457
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
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12:55:00
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http://forums.matronics.com
le=2C List Admin.
="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Message 48
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| Subject: | Suggested product |
Mike,
I got REALLY lucky on the wheels! A co-worker introduced me to one of our
customers at "Paughco" (www.paughco.com). As you can see from their site,
they specialize in custom building motorcycles, worldwide. I was in a very
good position to give their "Wheel Guru" some help and advice on a
construction application, which turned out to be profitable for him. In
return, he sold me 21" Harley Sportster wheels at cost - $368! With 1"
bearings!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:45 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
Forget the Corvair (they almost always look good) and your sweet firewall; I
want to know more about those spectacular wheels.
Mike Hardaway
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:36 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
John,
Are you looking for something other than galvanized or stainless? Here's my
galvanized.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
amsafetyc@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Suggested product
Any suggestions on sources and material to be used as fire protection layer
between firewall and bulkhead?
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
Message 49
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That's good to hear, John..
Now go take out the trash like the Mrs. told you!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
AMsafetyC@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
hey guys, good news! I start my assertive training classes next month, I can
wait its a personal development thing I been needing to work on for many
years and struggled to break out of shell, no more Mr..Shy Mr. Doormat
reserved any more. I am gonna start letting people what I really think I am
gonna assert myself and you all will be proud of the new me!
John
_____
Message 50
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| Subject: | assertiveness training |
There's an older gent out at our airport who has a good saying that goes like this:
"I'm the head of my household and my wife gave me permission to say so
!"
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: AS&S bought naming rights to Exhibit Building |
A at Oshkosh
I totally agree with Andrew regarding the wood quality from Wicks. Everything
I ordered wood-wise from Wicks was of SUPERIOR quality--- just PERFECTION as
far as sitka spruce goes
and it always came packed in pine crating that was super durable and packed so
that no damage ever occured to any piece that was ever shipped to me.
Cheap-- no but then wood for a Pietenpol isn't really a huge portion of your costs----overhauling
an engine, buying a prop, having your carb and mags overhauled,
buying instruments and AN Hardware and covering and paint materials---there's where
your costs are in my opinion.
Message 52
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| Subject: | Re: Suggested product |
It's the only good thing I learned during my journey thru the Dark Side (
metal airplanes...)
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 12:46 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Suggested product
Hmmm, I need a better look... can I borrow that for a minute? 8)
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260025#260025
Message 53
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| Subject: | nicopress sleeve sizes |
Hi Mike,
What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is the same
either way, telephone or aircraft.
Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4 bays on
it labeled G,C,M,P
Thanks
Joe Motis
Joe--you're' EXACTLY right about the telephone nico tools vs. a/c ones-- they are
THE SAME ! In fact mine was made
right here in Cleveland (tho I ordered it thru Wicks) and has cast in it "Cleveland
Telegraph Company" or similar. I guess
what I meant is that some of the ones you see on ebay and the like only have one
'bay' or spot or maybe two bays for
two different size nicopress sleeves but the good ones have FOUR slots/bays for
the various sizes of nicopress ovals out there
and that's probably the best bet for an aircraft builder since it covers the gamut
of various cable sizes you might need to work on.
Mike C.
Message 54
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Just ordered my Piet plans. I didn't order the full size rib layout becaus
e I've heard a few people say that it is not quite correct due to the anoma
lies of copiers. Do the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib template fr
om?
Doug Dever
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
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| Subject: | Re: AN Hardware, cable, aluminum--you name it--- Dillsburg |
Aeroplane Works, Dillsburg, PA
The days of open hard wire with insulators in communications are gone and
there nico press tools
are up for grabs. Now it's fiber optics and scotch lock tools.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:36 PM, joe motis <joemotis@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi Mike,
>
> What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is
> the same either way, telephone or aircraft.
> Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4
> bays on it labeled G,C,M,P
> Thanks
>
> Joe Motis
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC
> Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>
>> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>>
>> I bought most of my AN hardware, cables, sheet, tube, and streamlined
>> tubing, turnbuckles
>> from Dillsburg. If you call them they'll mail you a catalog.
>>
>> I used the Wicks and ACS catalogs to figure out what I would need to order
>> and then would
>> just call Dillsburg and they take your order over the phone and ship it
>> ground UPS that day.
>> You get the bill and pay them via check after your stuff arrives-- old
>> fashioned outfit but
>> it must work for them.
>>
>> You have to really know what you want and what you're talking about to
>> order from Dillsburg
>> as the people there can take a list of 25 different items and quantities
>> in about 2 minutes--zip,
>> zip, you read off what you want and they box it, ship it and get it out to
>> you.
>>
>> Some days I would call at lunchtime for hardware and it would be on my
>> porch the NEXT day. (but
>> Ohio is right next to PA (home of John Recine) so it didn't take long at
>> all but they mean
>> business when they take and order and they ship FAST.
>>
>> Dillsburg Aeroplane Works
>> 114 Sawmill Rd
>> Dillsburg, PA 17
>>
>> They do not have a web site nor do I believe that they take credit cards.
>>
>> PS-- I saw a few used nicopress tools on ebay just now but they were for
>> telephone cable nicopress sleeves.
>> I'm sure if you keep your eye out some widow will have and a/c one for
>> sale soon ! (sorry....it's true)
>> There really are only two sleeve sizes you need to build a Pietenpol in
>> the nicopress world and I forget
>> what letter they are designated on the tool. (like Size M, L, etc) The
>> only size nico sleeves I used
>> on my entire plane were either for 1/8" cable or 3/32" cable. That's
>> it.
>>
>> Mike C
>>
>>
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List" target="_blank">
>> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> ronics.com/" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
>> Matt Dralle, List Admin.
>> ====
>>
>>
>>
>>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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True, you don't need the full size rib plan.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wr
ote:
> Just ordered my Piet plans. I didn't order the full size rib layout
> because I've heard a few people say that it is not quite correct due to t
he
> anomalies of copiers. Do the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib
> template from?
>
> Doug Dever
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it
> now.<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009>
>
> *
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>
--
Rick Holland
Castle Rock, Colorado
"Logic is a wreath of pretty flowers, that smell bad"
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| Subject: | Re: Okoume and fuselage gussets |
Well I'm no expert but I'm not going to use okume on the gussets, I'm using
birch, 1/8 that is, much stronger,
then I will use Okume on the sides. Very little birch and twice the strength
and resistance to tear and shear than Okume.
Again I have no data to offer you this is just my preference. Also I'm going
to nail and glue at these points
then coat with epoxy, not epoxy varnish but plain old Raka epoxy marine
glue.
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 2:23 PM, Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.net>wrote:
> That's right Bill, I'll be getting 2- 4X8 sheets of 1/8" and one of the
> 1/4". That gives me one full sheet of 1/8" and the cut off from the other
> 1/8" for the other various plywood parts. Same with the 1/4".
>
> Looks like I can get the Okoume stuff from Boulter for cheap...cut and
> shipped.
>
>
> --- On *Thu, 8/27/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Thursday, August 27, 2009, 12:14 PM
>
> The plans do not call for a specific type of plywood to be used. Probably
> whatever the norm was back in 1934. I would assume that the glues used today
> are superior to those of 75 years ago.
> I'm planning to use Marine Okoume throughout my fuselage. I haven't done a
> proper material layout, but I think it would be a very tight squeeze to
> get ALL of the 1/8" ply parts out of a single 4' x 8' sheet (fuse sides,
> fuse and tail gussets, seat bottoms, seat backs, firewall, turtledeck
> formers, instrument panels, etc. etc.), so I bought two sheets, which added
> a whopping $40 or so to my material costs. But, in the long run, I'm sure it
> will have saved me money, since we all end up making a few "extra" parts,
> and on the day that I realize that I need a few more square feet of 1/8"
> plywood, I won't have to go buy another sheet. Just something to keep in
> mind -- especially if you're having plywood shipped.
>
> Bill C.
>
> **
>
> *
>
> " target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> =nofollow>http://forums.matronics.com
> blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
> *
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
This may not be the best, but Ill include my favorite. Its simply three, one foot
pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These are joined by
a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While youre in the hardware store
buying the chain (theyll cut it for you) purchase nine of the largest nails they
have (check to assure theyll pass through the links). To get fancy, pick
up a fence hammer which also works like pliers to extract the nails. Add three
pieces of good rope (also from the hardware store) and place it all in a bag.
See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too much time in the hardware store!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260115#260115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tie_down_kit_202.jpg
Message 59
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
Good idea, BYD. Log home spikes would work well.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(13 ribs down)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of BYD
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 7:45 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: portable tie downs
This may not be the best, but Ill include my favorite. Its simply three, one foot
pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These are joined by
a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While youre in the hardware store
buying the chain (theyll cut it for you) purchase nine of the largest nails they
have (check to assure theyll pass through the links). To get fancy, pick
up a fence hammer which also works like pliers to extract the nails. Add three
pieces of good rope (also from the hardware store) and place it all in a bag.
See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too much time in the hardware store!
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260115#260115
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/tie_down_kit_202.jpg
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| Subject: | Re: nicopress sleeve sizes |
I worked on what is called open wire for several years in the 1971 to 1980,
it was outdated
then, the wire that used I think been a while c & d were two different
sizes open wire
one was .109 galvanized steel and the other an .080 copper coated steel,
I also had wire called c-wire that was a temporary fix for lack of
facility's when
you run out of cable, There is one thing I know for sure an old line man
told me you can pull this wire till it breaks with a splice and sleeve in
the wire
it will never fail in the sleeve, he was correct I fixed thousands of breaks
but never
saw a failure in a sleeve. There was another wire called c-wire that I
didn't have sleeves
for so I used a larger size and crimped it out of spec, it also never failed
even though
it had the wrong sleeve however I wouldn't try that on an airplane.
There was also a wire sect ionized for rail road crossing it was larger just
for
this and it was .134 then there was some aluminum wire I don't remember the
size.
russell ray
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:53 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
> Hi Mike,
>
> What is the difference in the crimpers(Nicopress) I thought an oval m is
> the same either way, telephone or aircraft.
> Do you know or does any one else? I have access to telephone one with 4
> bays on it labeled G,C,M,P
> Thanks
>
> Joe Motis
>
>
> Joe--you're' EXACTLY right about the telephone nico tools vs. a/c ones--
> they are THE SAME ! In fact mine was made
> right here in Cleveland (tho I ordered it thru Wicks) and has cast in it
> "Cleveland Telegraph Company" or similar. I guess
> what I meant is that some of the ones you see on ebay and the like only
> have one 'bay' or spot or maybe two bays for
> two different size nicopress sleeves but the good ones have FOUR slots/bays
> for the various sizes of nicopress ovals out there
> and that's probably the best bet for an aircraft builder since it covers
> the gamut of various cable sizes you might need to work on.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
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Yes, the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib template from.
What the plans do not have are:
1) dimensions for the locations of the cross-members,
2) dimensions for the sizes of the gussets, and
3) the vertical cross-members adjacent to the spars.
Now, the full-size rib drawing doesn't have any dimensions either, but
if you have the full-size print, you can measure them.
But neither of the missing dimensions are critical - you can scale the
drawing that comes with the plan set.
And the vertical cross-members adjacent to the spars must have been
something that BHP incorporated after the plans were drawn in 1933 or
1934. The locations are pretty simple really, the front one sits
directly behind the front spar, and the rear one site directly in front
of the rear spar. If that's not clear, take a look at various builder's
construction photos on mykitplane.com or at westcoastpiet.com.
Bill C.
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| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
Robert=2C
Have you looked into System Three clear coat epoxy? I put cedar tongue and
groove siding on the front of my house and coated every piece with the stu
ff thinned 30% by volume of laquer thinner. Wood just sucked it up and fiv
e years later the wood looks like the day I put it up. On a house you need
a UV barrier though. I used System Three clear urethane. You wouldn't ne
ed it on an airplane though.
Beware of urethanes that are not 2 part. To be a true urethane with all th
e benfits it needs to be catalyzed or cross linked.
I don't profess to ba a Piet authority=2C but I do know a little about coat
ings. Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that.
Doug Dever
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
From: rray032003@gmail.com
Well I'm no expert but I'm not going to use okume on the gussets=2C I'm usi
ng birch=2C 1/8 that is=2C much stronger=2C
then I will use Okume on the sides. Very little birch and twice the strengt
h and resistance to tear and shear than Okume.
Again I have no data to offer you this is just my preference. Also I'm goin
g to nail and glue at these points
then coat with epoxy=2C not epoxy varnish but plain old Raka epoxy marine g
lue.
On Thu=2C Aug 27=2C 2009 at 2:23 PM=2C Michael Perez <speedbrake@sbcglobal.
net> wrote:
That's right Bill=2C I'll be getting 2- 4X8 sheets of 1/8" and one of the
1/4". That gives me one full sheet of 1/8" and the cut off from the other
1/8" for the other various plywood parts. Same with the 1/4".
Looks like I can get the Okoume stuff from Boulter for cheap...cut and ship
ped.
--- On Thu=2C 8/27/09=2C Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
The plans do not call for a specific type of plywood to be used. Probably w
hatever the norm was back in 1934. I would assume that the glues used today
are superior to those of 75 years ago.
I'm planning to use Marine Okoume throughout my fuselage. I haven't done a
proper material layout=2C but I think it would be a very tight squeeze to g
et ALL of the 1/8" ply parts out of a single 4' x 8' sheet (fuse sides=2C f
use and tail gussets=2C seat bottoms=2C seat backs=2C firewall=2C turtledec
k formers=2C instrument panels=2C etc. etc.)=2C so I bought two sheets=2C w
hich added a whopping $40 or so to my material costs. But=2C in the long ru
n=2C I'm sure it will have saved me money=2C since we all end up making a f
ew "extra" parts=2C and on the day that I realize that I need a few more sq
uare feet of 1/8" plywood=2C I won't have to go buy another sheet. Just som
ething to keep in mind -- especially if you're having plywood shipped.
Bill C.
" target=_blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenp
ol-List
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blank rel=nofollow>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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The plans do have the ordinates. If you want to loft from the plans, go
right ahead; been there, done that. I've also had two full size prints, the
Pietenpol rib and the Riblett rib, and both of those prints were just fine
dimensionally. It only takes a second to check a few dimensions; the rear o
f
the front spar to the front of the rear spar, overall length, etc.
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 8:59 PM, Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>wr
ote:
> Just ordered my Piet plans. I didn't order the full size rib layout
> because I've heard a few people say that it is not quite correct due to t
he
> anomalies of copiers. Do the plans have the ordinates to loft a rib
> template from?
>
> Doug Dever
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. Try it
> now.<http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:
WL:en-US:WM_HYGN_faster:082009>
>
> *
>
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Message 64
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Hi Ken:
Thanks so much for the pictures! I haven't been able to get into the shop
yet as I am waiting for the sale of all of my RC model stuff to finish up
(Liquidating it all after many years collecting stuff... Crud: I could have
owned a well engined Piet for what I sunk into models over the years).
In the mean time, while watching TV with my lovely wife, I have drawn out
the 613.5 airfoil as well and was looking at the 612 and 613.5 by
comparison.
Thanks again for the jig pics. Seeing how you made it and the steamer (cat
included.... we have 3) was a help.
Mark
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 9:16 AM, <jb.spiegel@us.schneider-electric.com>wrote:
>
> Ken,
>
> great pictures, one comment though, instead of wrapping the top of your
> bending soaker pipe with towels and risking damaging the towels use the cat
> that is sitting on the chair, the tail makes a great handle for pulling it
> out of the tube, and you can stuff it in with the next cap strip. ;-)
>
> Jake
>
> do not archive
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: portable tie downs |
BYD,
Not to throw stones or anything, but one part of that setup would concern
me; the concern comes to mind especially because of a video I watched the
other day:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Loq1olceSIE
Avweb compares The Claw (it's gonna getcha!), Flyties, a setup from Deal
Associates, and a commonly available 'doggie auger'. I wish they would have
done their test in something besides Florida soil, but I digress. In the
video the head of the 'doggie auger' deformed significantly. Even if the
brass that the hook you have is made out of could somehow equal the strengt
h
of the cheap ferrous metal that the 'doggie auger' was made out of, it is
still significantly smaller. If the 'doggie auger' deforms that much,
imagine what the brass hook would do. If your setup works for you then pay
no mind to me; just wanted to share that observation and thought on the
matter.
As an aside, a comment that they made towards the end of the video regardin
g
the Flyties caught my attention. They mentioned that when they pulled the
Flyties out at an angle that they performed 'better'. Of course, they don't
quantify that remark, but I thought it was worth making note. How do you
install your Flyties when you use them, Mike?
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 9:45 PM, BYD <byd@att.net> wrote:
>
> This may not be the best, but I=92ll include my favorite. It=92s simply
three,
> one foot pieces of chain each cut into three, four inch pieces. These ar
e
> joined by a hefty brass hook with a ring to tie to. While you=92re in th
e
> hardware store buying the chain (they=92ll cut it for you) purchase nine
of
> the largest nails they have (check to assure they=92ll pass through the
> links). To get fancy, pick up a =93fence hammer=94 which also works like
pliers
> to extract the nails. Add three pieces of good rope (also from the hardw
are
> store) and place it all in a bag. See enclosed. Obviously, I spend too
> much time in the hardware store!
>
Message 66
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I'd guess he is having the same problem I am. I am able to download and
pay for the $35 update from the page you linked to just fine. Doing
that every couple of years would be fine with me. But, the card reader
that came with the lowrance unit is proprietary and it no longer works,
so I have no way to load the file to my flash card. Complicating things
further, the flash readers have multiple drivers for different readers,
and I don't know which one to use because the sticker fell off my reader
long ago. Of course, the web site still takes my money. It just seems
that Lowrance could've come up with a better way to update the files and
they would've had a few more happy customers.
Are we allowed to talk about GPS and flash memory on the Pietenpol
forum? Seems almost sacrilege.
Steve Ruse
Norman, OK
----- Original Message -----
From: Ryan Mueller
To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: ASSCO,inc
John,
Under risk of having an Airmap GPS 500 thrown at my head, have you
seen this:
http://www.lei-extras.com/store/jepp_db.asp
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:53 AM, <AMsafetyC@aol.com> wrote:
I Hate Lowrance, I have the Airmap GPS that I purchased brand new It
may be the 500 unit. It works great however there is no way I can get an
update for my charts so its no longer accurate nor can t be since noone
supports that system nor are that style card available.
Here I have a well operating unity that's only as good as the map
data card Jepp charts which are grossly obsolete. There is no 3rd party
producing the cards or mounting charts so either I fly with that or I
buy a new one.
I will never buy, borrow, beg or steal another Lowrance product.
That company just plane Sucks and that's the good part.
I would have liked to get more than 12 months of life and one chart
upgrade for the money. You would think they would have supported their
obsolete equipment or had a 3rd party in line for support, rather than
dumping the line so we all have to buy new from them. Not me again, not
never. Those jerks can choke on their lousy crummy rotten attitude
towards customer support and go straight to He11, in my humble opinion
and for what its worth I hope ASS is watching too so they know they will
never get me buying a Lowrance product from them or any other company.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
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tp://forums.matronics.com
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| Subject: | Okoume and fuselage gussets |
Just curious Russel, but are you planning to use Aircraft Grade Birch
ply for your gussets, or the "cheap" Birch that fell apart in the boil
test you did?
Also curious why you would say that the Birch has "twice the strength
and resistance to tear and shear", and then in your next line say that
you have no data to offer. What is your statement based on, then ... Gut
feeling? I agree that Birch is stronger (and heavier) than Okoume, but
twice as strong? I don't think so.
And finally, what would the advantage be to coating the gussets with
epoxy glue, as opposed to epoxy varnish? Seems like it would be a lot
heavier. I don't get it.
I realize you are building YOUR plane, and you get to build it the way
YOU want to (within reason). This is called Experimental Aviation, and
it is supposed to be a learning process for those that take part. But
since these "experiments" will eventually be carrying real, live people
up in the air, I get nervous when I see people writing about how they
are planning to do something that doesn't follow time-tested methods,
without any science to back them up. I'm all for people discovering new
ways to do things, and using alternative materials - as long as there is
some sound science to back it up.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Robert Ray
Sent: Thu 27/08/2009 10:14 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Okoume and fuselage gussets
Well I'm no expert but I'm not going to use okume on the gussets, I'm
using
birch, 1/8 that is, much stronger,
then I will use Okume on the sides. Very little birch and twice the
strength
and resistance to tear and shear than Okume.
Again I have no data to offer you this is just my preference. Also I'm
going
to nail and glue at these points
then coat with epoxy, not epoxy varnish but plain old Raka epoxy marine
glue.
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| Subject: | Fuselage building and materialokume ply;Q; |
ok i se beter now is all abut confucion tanks for these inform these i look
in the web and pise from 4x8ft material cost 46some dolars ,tanks again bi
ll ,seyou nex,
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and materialokume ply;
Jorge,
I'm not sure if I understand your question, but if you are asking whether O
koume Marine plywood is okay to use for your fuselage sides, the answer is
yes. Many Pietenpols have been successfully built with this plywood used fo
r the fuselage sides.
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of jorge lizarrag
a
Sent: Thu 27/08/2009 12:52 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and materialokume ply;
ups thats is bad think i agry in all you say i dont want brokent thinks in
my plane fuselaje sides or so. mayby used from small joint or instrument pa
nel view copit shape and bulk head thanks for you in form
--- On Wed, 8/26/09, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
One more thing I would not use Okume unless I coated it with epoxy, it's so
ft
and you can dent-it with your finger nail, it however soaks epoxy like a
sponge
and this increases it's side hardness and abrasion resistance.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 3:24 AM, Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
In the South east you can build out of poplar if you like, you can buy it f
or a buck a board
foot, I'm thinking of building out of baltic birch although not boil proof
it's stronger and more
flexible than 1088 Okume, probably twice as strong per deminsion and it's C
HEAP.
The epoxy I'm using will not pass a boil test either. The birch I boil test
ed the natural
wood fibers broke down just as bad as the glue joints. What I worry about i
s not so
much a boil test or a good soaking it's high humidity over time. I have a p
iece of baltic
birch on a truck topper I built it's been exposed to rain several times and
hasn't delaminated yet.
It's shock resistance is amazing. Birch rules, the boat builders rate marin
e plywood
strength in this order DF, Meranti then Okume, the Jodel originally was bui
lt of
Okume but many are now using GL aircraft birch. I think Meranti is a little
cheaper
than the Okume but again heavier but stronger, it is more durable and less
likly to rot
than either okume or birch.
I would not use anything but 1088 if I used Okume I have bent it on other p
rojects
and I think it's 6056 and it will break where it's inner ply's are spliced.
If you want to know about okume go to kayak building web sites and there yo
u will
learn. I like the looks if finnished bright with clear epoxy and fiber glas
s it is
a very beautifull wood, it's works excellent and will give a much smoother
finnish than DF.
-
my 02 cents worth
-
Russell
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 1:16 AM, jorge lizarraga <flightwood@yahoo.com> wro
te:
ups- tanks for all you inform i used in my plane birch aircraft plywood m
m. buy in spruse but the last buy shiping chargers is almost the same amoun
t the wood????if you have thoses scrap pises i like tonow if you like selmy
those .
--- On Tue, 8/25/09, brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com
> wrote:
From: brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com <brian.e.jardine@L-3com.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
I have to agree with- Gary..we have a MacBeath Hardwood here in SLC, UT a
nd the prices are great I got my Spruce and ply and I don't have to pay shi
pping costs.
-
Brian
SLC, UT
-
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
-
Jorge,
-
All the 1/8" plywood on my project is Marine Mahogany which I purchased loc
ally. In fact, I just found a new supplier in the San Francisco Bay Area th
at is far cheaper. The last sheet I bought from MacBeath Hardwood was $25!!
If you just need some scraps for making gussets for your tail, let me know
.
-
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion
Tail done,-Fuselage-on gear
(13 ribs down.)
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis
t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jorge lizarraga
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 9:37 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material;exelente
-
hi im jorge from hanford ca, in these moment i folow thw nex step tp build
my piet is the tail section stare whit the stavilizer and look you mail is
bery nice to have okume plywood sprus sale for the same size 98 a pise 4X8F
T IF YOU NOW SOME GUYS BUILD THE SIDE COVER WHIT THESE WOOD YOUNOW . tanks
for you mail and seyou nex
--- On Mon, 8/24/09, Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com> wrote:
From: Bill Church <eng@canadianrogers.com>
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building and material
Regarding the wedge blocks, I believe they are only required at the two loc
ations shown, as reinforcement for landing gear attachment. Some builders h
ave opted to use lightweight balsa filler wedges in other locations, to avo
id water collection in the pockets (not a bad idea).
-
Regarding plywood, one important feature of Aircraft grade plywood is that
it is manufactured using waterproof (actually boilproof) glues. This will p
revent the plies from delaminating, should the wood somehow become soaked w
ith water. An economical alternative to Aircraft grade plywood for the fuse
lage sides is the use of BS1088 or BS6566 Okoume Marine Ply (Okoume is a ma
hogany-like tropical wood).-While it is not quite as strong as Aircraft p
ly made of Birch, it is apparently strong enough for this purpose, and is m
anufactured using waterproof (also boilproof) glues. In addition to the low
er cost, it is also lighter (in weight, as well as color) than Birch, and a
vailable in 4' x 8' sheets.
-
A couple of sources for Okoume Marine Ply:
-
-
http://www.noahsmarine.com/
http://www.boulterplywood.com/
-
Bill C. - -" rel=nofollow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Na
vigator?Pietenpol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.comllow target=_blank>http://www.matr
onics.com/contribution
-
_________________ - -http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
-http://forums.matronics.com -
http://www.matronics.com/contribution - -
-http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
http://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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ol-List
et=_blank>http://forums.matronics.com
llow target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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Steve, and a bit applicable to John,
It seems John, unfortunately, is SOL because neither Lowrance or the LEI
people support the Airmap 300 (I'm not telling him anything he doesn't
already know). Since the aviation GPS world is generally not populated by
young teenagers interested in older hardware, no one has hacked the 300 to
accept 500 updates.
Steve, do you have the 300 or a different model?
John....I would send you a batch of homemade cream puffs(!) to help
alleviate your frustrations about the Lowrance, but I don't know how to make
those. You may however get yourself on the list for the best chocolate chip
cookies ever....independently confirmed by the Medical Imaging department at
Children's Memorial Hospital.
Have a good night all,
Ryan
On Thu, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:00 PM, Steve Ruse <steve@wotelectronics.com>wrote:
> I'd guess he is having the same problem I am. I am able to download and
> pay for the $35 update from the page you linked to just fine. Doing that
> every couple of years would be fine with me. But, the card reader that came
> with the lowrance unit is proprietary and it no longer works, so I have no
> way to load the file to my flash card. Complicating things further, the
> flash readers have multiple drivers for different readers, and I don't know
> which one to use because the sticker fell off my reader long ago. Of
> course, the web site still takes my money. It just seems that Lowrance
> could've come up with a better way to update the files and they would've had
> a few more happy customers.
>
> Are we allowed to talk about GPS and flash memory on the Pietenpol forum?
> Seems almost sacrilege.
>
> Steve Ruse
> Norman, OK
>
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