Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:11 AM - Re: Blakesburg Flyin this weekend (Jack)
2. 04:54 AM - lee bottom (Douwe Blumberg)
3. 06:18 AM - empennage plans using tubing (Oscar Zuniga)
4. 06:52 AM - Re: Blakesburg Flyin this weekend (Davis Roger)
5. 06:52 AM - variations on how to build a Pietenpol : empennage plans using tubing (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
6. 07:21 AM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Roman Bukolt)
7. 07:57 AM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Ryan Mueller)
8. 08:14 AM - empennage plans using tubing (Oscar Zuniga)
9. 08:56 AM - Re: Re: empennage plans using tubing (Doug Dever)
10. 09:19 AM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Bill Church)
11. 10:19 AM - Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools (Tim Willis)
12. 10:54 AM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Doug Dever)
13. 11:31 AM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Bill Church)
14. 12:21 PM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Doug Dever)
15. 12:54 PM - Re: Turnbuckles (Bill Church)
16. 02:13 PM - empennage plans using tubing (Oscar Zuniga)
17. 02:42 PM - Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools ()
18. 03:49 PM - Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools (amsafetyc@aol.com)
19. 05:10 PM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Kip and Beth Gardner)
20. 05:20 PM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
21. 05:55 PM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Jeff Boatright)
22. 05:56 PM - Re: empennage plans using tubing (Doug Dever)
23. 06:30 PM - landing like a Champ (Oscar Zuniga)
24. 07:03 PM - Re: landing like a Champ (K5YAC)
25. 07:08 PM - Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools (Clif Dawson)
26. 07:10 PM - Re: landing like a Champ (Clif Dawson)
27. 07:35 PM - Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools (Tim Willis)
28. 07:43 PM - Re: landing like a Champ-- control stick (Tim Willis)
29. 08:39 PM - Vise (Gary Boothe)
30. 08:56 PM - Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools (Robert Ray)
31. 09:06 PM - Re: Bell's carb heat muff, was Re: Nicopress tools (shad bell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Blakesburg Flyin this weekend |
Hey Roger, it's Susan that will share the beer, I will share a scotch! The
bad thing is I think we will only make it Thursday. Possibly will be there
tonight if work goes well. If anybody does show Roger or I will sponsor you
as a guest.
Jack
www.textors.com <http://www.textors.com/>
do not archive
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Davis Roger
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:03 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Blakesburg Flyin this weekend
If anybody makes it to Blakesburg this week. We will be frying catfish on
Friday night. No charge to any of you by the way!
Rumor has it Jack Textor will give a beer to anybody flying in in their
Piet. If he don't I guess I will. Seriously if anybody does make it
we will be camped along the west side of the runway. We will have a model a
parked next to the tent so we shouldn't be hard to find.
Hope to see a few of you.
Roger Davis
06:52:00
Message 2
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Me and my family will be there if nothing else comes up.
Douwe
Message 3
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Well, I don't know why we should cut somebody off at the
knees about this ;o) Pietenpol published alternate plans
for a steel tube fuselage, so a logical extension would be
to look at the empennage as well. For a very few dollars
one can purchase the set of three (or is it four?) "Flying
& Glider Manuals" from EAA from the 1930s and besides them
being fascinating reading and very educational, there are
a whole host of different designs in them that utilize
steel tubing for the empennage and other parts. From those,
it would be quite simple to lay out the lines of the
Piet surfaces and translate them to tubing sizes, bracing,
and intersection connections.
If I may even go a bit heretical, one could also look at
the Roger Mann RW-1 "Ragwing Piet" plans and figure it out
from there, because the Ragwing Piet is all tubing and
aluminum at that.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Blakesburg Flyin this weekend |
I'll get few extra passes, but does that mean you are leaving the mobile
mansion for whomever may be coming in for the fish fry :}
Roger
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 5:01 AM, Jack <jack@textors.com> wrote:
> Hey Roger, it=92s Susan that will share the beer, I will share a scotch!
> The bad thing is I think we will only make it Thursday. Possibly will be
> there tonight if work goes well. If anybody does show Roger or I will
> sponsor you as a guest.
>
> Jack
>
> www.textors.com
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *Davis Roger
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 01, 2009 9:03 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Blakesburg Flyin this weekend
>
>
> If anybody makes it to Blakesburg this week. We will be frying catfish on
> Friday night. No charge to any of you by the way!
> Rumor has it Jack Textor will give a beer to anybody flying in in their
> Piet. If he don't I guess I will. Seriously if anybody does make it
> we will be camped along the west side of the runway. We will have a model
a
> parked next to the tent so we shouldn't be hard to find.
> Hope to see a few of you.
>
> Roger Davis
>
> * *
>
> * *
>
> **
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://forums.matronics.com*
>
> **
>
> **
>
> *http://www.matronics.com/contribution*
>
> * *
>
.13.74/2339
> - Release Date: 09/01/09 06:52:00
>
> *
>
===========
w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
===========
===========
com/contribution
===========
> *
>
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | variations on how to build a Pietenpol : empennage |
plans using tubing
I had a gent visit my hangar in the spring from Australia who became totally
fascinated with the Pietenpol design.
He was in the states for a few weeks and came back to tell me that he had ordered
and rec'd the plans (in case you'd like to order Pietenpol plans go here: http://www.pressenter.com/~apietenp/
Upon this gent's next visit to the airport he proceeded to tell me how he was going
to:
1) make folding wings so he could trailer the airplane--he was going to redesign
it like a Kitfox (I think)
2) Use stamped aluminum ribs
3) Use an aluminum tubes for the wing spars (like Jim Bede used and the little
Grumman's followed up with in factory-builts such as the Yankee, AA1 series, Tiger,
and Traveler)
4) Possibly use a different airfoil--he was going to do a search for the best lift/
lowest drag airfoil
5) I forget what all he told me because I literally tuned him out after hearing
his first few ideas
and the guy hadn't even gone over the plans but just in casual observation of my
airplane decided all these
things in rapid fire order.
I wished him luck and asked him to send me photos of it when he's got it flying.
I almost added "have fun and knock yourself out !"
Mike C.
Just another snowflake (Larry W. will like that one:)
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
My Piet, NX20795 has a welded tube fuse AND tail feathers.
I think I might even have the builder's drawings of the steel frames.
As a matter of fact, the rudder ribs were sheet metal channels which
he accidentally welded facing up (water collecting?)
so he mounted the rudder upside down. If you look at a photo of
NX20795 in the archives you'll notice that the top of the
rudder is a different angle than the typical Piet.
Roman Bukolt NX20795
On Sep 2, 2009, at 7:53 AM, Oscar Zuniga wrote:
> >
>
>
> Well, I don't know why we should cut somebody off at the
> knees about this ;o) Pietenpol published alternate plans
> for a steel tube fuselage, so a logical extension would be
> to look at the empennage as well. For a very few dollars
> one can purchase the set of three (or is it four?) "Flying
> & Glider Manuals" from EAA from the 1930s and besides them
> being fascinating reading and very educational, there are
> a whole host of different designs in them that utilize
> steel tubing for the empennage and other parts. From those,
> it would be quite simple to lay out the lines of the
> Piet surfaces and translate them to tubing sizes, bracing,
> and intersection connections.
>
> If I may even go a bit heretical, one could also look at
> the Roger Mann RW-1 "Ragwing Piet" plans and figure it out
> from there, because the Ragwing Piet is all tubing and
> aluminum at that.
>
> Oscar Zuniga
> Air Camper NX41CC
> San Antonio, TX
> mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
> website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
http://i972.photobucket.com/albums/ae210/rmpanzer23/rudders.jpg
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 9:15 AM, Roman Bukolt <conceptmodels@tds.net> wrote:
>
> My Piet, NX20795 has a welded tube fuse AND tail feathers.
> I think I might even have the builder's drawings of the steel frames.
> As a matter of fact, the rudder ribs were sheet metal channels which he
> accidentally welded facing up (water collecting?)
> so he mounted the rudder upside down. If you look at a photo of NX20795 in
> the archives you'll notice that the top of the
> rudder is a different angle than the typical Piet.
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Roman wrote-
>As a matter of fact, the rudder ribs were sheet metal
>channels which he accidentally welded facing up (water
>collecting?) so he mounted the rudder upside down.
Actually, some Aussie builders do that on purpose so that
their planes, built down under, will fly right-side-up when
completed.
;o)
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
do not archive
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
Big Steve=2C
I just received my plans and they do have the steel fuse. However only for
the short version for the model A. According to Don Pietenpol there never
was published steel tube plans for the long version.
Doug Dever
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: empennage plans using tubing
> From: billspiet@sympatico.ca
> Date: Tue=2C 1 Sep 2009 18:56:45 -0700
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>
ca>
>
> Big Steve=2C
>
> Why are you looking at Nieuport plans to build a Pietenpol?
> And=2C more importantly=2C why are you surprised that the empennage looks
"quite different"?
>
> To the best of my knowledge=2C there are no published plans for the Piete
npol empennage built of steel tubing (or any other kind of tubing=2C for th
at matter). I'd say you're on your own there. Which is not to say that peop
le have not built their empennage out of steel tube=2C because they have. I
'm just saying that they all did it without the use of published plans.
>
> Good luck with your Nieuportenpol!
>
> Bill C.
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=260941#260941
>
>
>
>
> Attachments:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/nieuport_17_143.jpg
> http://forums.matronics.com//files/pietenpolaircamper_112.jpg
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
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Message 10
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Okay, Oscar - maybe just cut them off at the ankles then.
Actually, I have no problem with anyone doing whatever they want with
their plane - I just couldn't for the life of me figure out what
connection there was between plans for a Nieuport and the Pietenpol.
Of course, many planes have been built with steel tube empennages -
probably more than there have been with wooden empennages. And there
have been builders that have built their Piets with steel empennage as
well. My point was that, to the best of my knowledge, there are not any
PUBLISHED plans available for a steel tube Piet empennage. No doubt that
those builders who chose to build in steel, drew up their own plans.
Perhaps, as you suggest, they "borrowed" ideas from plans of other
planes of a similar vintage. Or maybe they actually knew what they were
doing, and performed the necessary calculations to determine the
appropriate diameter and wall thicknesses of tubing to use, as well a
what internal structure would be needed.
What it boils down to is this:
If a builder chooses to deviate from the plans, it is the builder's
responsibility and duty to determine whether the changes they make will
function properly, and withstand all of the loads that will be imposed
on the resulting plane, as well as determining what, if any, impact
those changes will have on the rest of the plane.
As for your proposed heresy, you'll have to try harder. The RagWing
designs are all wood - no tubing in the structures.
http://www.ragwing.net/
I bet you're thinking about Robert Baslee's Airdrome Aeroplanes - those
are all built with aluminum tube and pop rivets - but he doesn't have a
Pietenpol-like plane in his fleet.
http://www.airdromeairplanes.com/index.html
Bill C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oscar
Zuniga
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 8:54 AM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: empennage plans using tubing
--> <taildrags@hotmail.com>
Well, I don't know why we should cut somebody off at the knees about
this ;o) Pietenpol published alternate plans for a steel tube fuselage,
so a logical extension would be to look at the empennage as well. For a
very few dollars one can purchase the set of three (or is it four?)
"Flying & Glider Manuals" from EAA from the 1930s and besides them being
fascinating reading and very educational, there are a whole host of
different designs in them that utilize steel tubing for the empennage
and other parts. From those, it would be quite simple to lay out the
lines of the Piet surfaces and translate them to tubing sizes, bracing,
and intersection connections.
If I may even go a bit heretical, one could also look at the Roger Mann
RW-1 "Ragwing Piet" plans and figure it out from there, because the
Ragwing Piet is all tubing and aluminum at that.
Oscar Zuniga
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools |
Rodney,
The short answer is .339 in. or less for 1/8" cable oval fittings. The gauge is
.339" at the mouth of the rectangular cutout, and .335" at its back.
The longer answer....
This is measured on my go/nogo gauge that came with my little crimper. The crimper
is the one with one handle and two bolts you tighten to squeeze the dies.
The tool is Wicks "tool hand swedge," part no. HST-2 ($18.31). The go/nogo
gauge comes with it, at no extra charge, or may be bought separately as "gauge
for HST-2," Wicks part no. NG54-11 ($6.38).
I have not yet used this crimper, but have used another fellow's crimper that looks
like a bolt cutter. He said he paid about $50 for his, but I was unable
to find such a tool at such a price. Perhaps if I had looked under telecom splicers,
etc.?
His tool was easy to use and accurate, but he and his tool are 50 miles away.
Wicks sells that tool as Wicks part no. 64CGMP for $219.38. They also sell a
related gauge.
Since that usage, I bought a cheap tool of that sort-- the bolt cutter look-alike--
the professional tool that many of the guys use and highly recommend. My
cheap tool bought at Home Depot was under $30. I had to file the jaws down to
get the squeeze I thought I wanted, and then was not sure if it was right.
So I bought the small tool mentioned above from Wicks, as part of an order of other
things. When I get back to cables, I will first try the Home Depot tool
and check it with the Wicks gauge. I found using the borrowed tools in my EAA
member's shop that getting the first crimp with the heavier tool is easy and
effective. I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
there we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here
at my project. I think that getting the second and third crimps placed just
right might be easier with the little hand swege, but I have not tried this yet.
I will try all methods on ONE end of a cable, BEFORE I cut it to length, and
then optimize, based on results.
Hope this helps. If any of you have gauges with other dimensions, or other swaging
advice, I would like to hear this.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: r.r.hall@cox.net
>Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress tools
>
>
>I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
>
>Rodney Hall
>---- Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
>> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
>> correctly.
>>
>> Russell
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
>> Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
>>
>> > Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>> >
>> >
>> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
>> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
>> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
>> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
>> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
>> >
>> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws
a
>> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
>> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
>> >
>> > Mike C.
>> >
>> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
>> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
>> > seconds
>> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Bill=2C
The plans that I have do have drawings for the steel tube fuse. However onl
y the short version.
Doug Dever
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Message 13
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
They most likely do, Doug.
The Pietenpol plans include a very basic drawing for the steel tube
version of the short fuselage. In fact, if anyone is planning to build a
steel tube fuselage, I would recommend they also get the Flying and
Glider reprint, as that has more detail regarding the steel tube
fuselage.
My post was in reply to a specific question (which is referred to in the
title of this thread) regarding plans for a tube version of the
empennage (tail feathers). Neither set of Pietenpol plans include that.
I don't know about the Grega plans - but they're no longer available for
purchase anyway.
Bill C.
________________________________
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
Dever
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 1:41 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: empennage plans using tubing
Bill,
The plans that I have do have drawings for the steel tube fuse. However
only the short version.
Doug Dever
Message 14
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Sorry Bill=2C
Miss read the post. I too was planning some mods=2C such as the 612 airfoi
l=2C but after going over the plans and the Flying and Glider reprint I que
stion the performance gains of the 612. I really think most of Lowell's pe
rformance gains come from his Model A mods. From what I've read the Piet fl
ys and lands like an Aeronca which is one of the most well behaved tail dra
ggers and that's good enough for me.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
do not archive
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Message 15
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Greg and Ryan,
Those were two very handy and helpful responses. Thank You.
Based on the link that Ryan posted, we can see that "turnbuckles are
made in short and long, male and female ends". Well, at least they were
90 years ago. I don't know if they are still made with male ends.
Probably not.
Anyway, I think that we can logically deduce that the "S" stands for
short, and the "F" stands for female, so "326 S.F." would indicate a
size 326 short turnbuckle with female ends.
Size 326 is listed in the chart with a breaking load of 2150 pounds, and
larger numbers have higher breaking loads, so it's a pretty safe bet
that a size 325 would have a breaking load somewhat lower than 2150
pounds.
My conclusion is:
Where the plans call for 326 S.F. - use AN***-22S turnbuckle
assemblies (strength 2200 pounds)
Where the plans call for 325 S.F. - use AN***-16S turnbuckle
assemblies (strength 1600 pounds)
(in the above turnbuckle assembly numbers, the three digits represented
by asterisks *** are determined by what type of ends are used - see
Aircraft Spruce catalogue link below for reference. The "dash" number
gives the strength, in hundreds of pounds, and the "S" stands for
short.)
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/turnbuckles.php
Thanks again Greg and Ryan. Mystery solved.
Bill C.
Message 16
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Bill wrote-
>regarding plans for a tube version of the empennage (tail feathers).
>Neither set of Pietenpol plans include that. I don't know about
>the Grega plans
I was just looking at my GN-1 plans this past weekend. All the tail
is wood and fabric construction, very similar to the Air Camper,
with a few small differences but all the same basic wood framing
sticks and shapes and very similar metal fittings and braces.
I stand corrected about the Ragwing "UltraPiet" not being tubular
framed; however, there are other similar tubular-framed light sport
and ultralight aircraft from which one could easily derive an
equivalent tail for the Air Camper. I propose that such a beast
be called a "Pie-tube-and-rag-enpol" or a "Welded Wonder".
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress |
tools
Thanks Tim,
I'll look for it at wicks. I bought my tool off of Ebay and it works great I just
have to check the finished crimp. I generally put the cable in a vice to hold
it for clamp it to something. Otherwisw having a helper really uh helps :-).
Rodney
---- Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> The short answer is .339 in. or less for 1/8" cable oval fittings. The gauge
is .339" at the mouth of the rectangular cutout, and .335" at its back.
>
> The longer answer....
>
> This is measured on my go/nogo gauge that came with my little crimper. The crimper
is the one with one handle and two bolts you tighten to squeeze the dies.
The tool is Wicks "tool hand swedge," part no. HST-2 ($18.31). The go/nogo
gauge comes with it, at no extra charge, or may be bought separately as "gauge
for HST-2," Wicks part no. NG54-11 ($6.38).
>
> I have not yet used this crimper, but have used another fellow's crimper that
looks like a bolt cutter. He said he paid about $50 for his, but I was unable
to find such a tool at such a price. Perhaps if I had looked under telecom
splicers, etc.?
>
> His tool was easy to use and accurate, but he and his tool are 50 miles away.
Wicks sells that tool as Wicks part no. 64CGMP for $219.38. They also sell
a related gauge.
>
> Since that usage, I bought a cheap tool of that sort-- the bolt cutter look-alike--
the professional tool that many of the guys use and highly recommend. My
cheap tool bought at Home Depot was under $30. I had to file the jaws down
to get the squeeze I thought I wanted, and then was not sure if it was right.
>
> So I bought the small tool mentioned above from Wicks, as part of an order of
other things. When I get back to cables, I will first try the Home Depot tool
and check it with the Wicks gauge. I found using the borrowed tools in my EAA
member's shop that getting the first crimp with the heavier tool is easy and
effective. I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
there we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here
at my project. I think that getting the second and third crimps placed just
right might be easier with the little hand swege, but I have not tried this
yet. I will try all methods on ONE end of a cable, BEFORE I cut it to length,
and then optimize, based on results.
>
> Hope this helps. If any of you have gauges with other dimensions, or other swaging
advice, I would like to hear this.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: r.r.hall@cox.net
> >Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress
tools
> >
> >
> >I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
> >
> >Rodney Hall
> >---- Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
> >> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> Russell
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> >> Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
> >> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
> >> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
> >> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
> >> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
> >> >
> >> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws
a
> >> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
> >> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
> >> >
> >> > Mike C.
> >> >
> >> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
> >> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
> >> > seconds
> >> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress |
tools
A premature curiosity on my part. Does any one have a count of total cable feet
required to rig a piet, complete?
Does anyone know the difference between aircraft and nautical use wire rope?
Aside from the obvious Recine smart donkey answer of: one is for aircraft and the
other is for water craft.
John
Safe in the morning
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: <r.r.hall@cox.net>
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress
tools
Thanks Tim,
I'll look for it at wicks. I bought my tool off of Ebay and it works great I just
have to check the finished crimp. I generally put the cable in a vice to hold
it for clamp it to something. Otherwisw having a helper really uh helps :-).
Rodney
---- Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Rodney,
>
> The short answer is .339 in. or less for 1/8" cable oval fittings. The gauge
is .339" at the mouth of the rectangular cutout, and .335" at its back.
>
> The longer answer....
>
> This is measured on my go/nogo gauge that came with my little crimper. The crimper
is the one with one handle and two bolts you tighten to squeeze the dies.
The tool is Wicks "tool hand swedge," part no. HST-2 ($18.31). The go/nogo
gauge comes with it, at no extra charge, or may be bought separately as "gauge
for HST-2," Wicks part no. NG54-11 ($6.38).
>
> I have not yet used this crimper, but have used another fellow's crimper that
looks like a bolt cutter. He said he paid about $50 for his, but I was unable
to find such a tool at such a price. Perhaps if I had looked under telecom
splicers, etc.?
>
> His tool was easy to use and accurate, but he and his tool are 50 miles away.
Wicks sells that tool as Wicks part no. 64CGMP for $219.38. They also sell
a related gauge.
>
> Since that usage, I bought a cheap tool of that sort-- the bolt cutter look-alike--
the professional tool that many of the guys use and highly recommend. My
cheap tool bought at Home Depot was under $30. I had to file the jaws down
to get the squeeze I thought I wanted, and then was not sure if it was right.
>
> So I bought the small tool mentioned above from Wicks, as part of an order of
other things. When I get back to cables, I will first try the Home Depot tool
and check it with the Wicks gauge. I found using the borrowed tools in my EAA
member's shop that getting the first crimp with the heavier tool is easy and
effective. I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
there we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here
at my project. I think that getting the second and third crimps placed just
right might be easier with the little hand swege, but I have not tried this
yet. I will try all methods on ONE end of a cable, BEFORE I cut it to length,
and then optimize, based on results.
>
> Hope this helps. If any of you have gauges with other dimensions, or other swaging
advice, I would like to hear this.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: r.r.hall@cox.net
> >Sent: Sep 1, 2009 9:18 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopress
tools
> >
> >
> >I do not have the gauge does anyone have the dimensions to make a gauge or the
width of a compressed fitting for a 1/8 inch cable.
> >
> >Rodney Hall
> >---- Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Yes when I was a line man we had one that we had to peridocally check
> >> the sleeves after compressing. As the tool wears it will not compress
> >> correctly.
> >>
> >> Russell
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 11:11 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
> >> Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Shad is right-- there is a slotted flat plate of steel with 'stepped' U
> >> > chaped spaces machined into it where you slip the appropriate
> >> > U slot over your completed nicopress sleeve to see if it slips in with no
> >> > problems--if it doesn't slip in you have not gotten a good tight nicopress
> >> > and the assembly should be trashed and made over.
> >> >
> >> > There are adjustments on the nicopress pliers so you can tighten the jaws
a
> >> > bit to make good, sound, nicopress presses if you're not getting
> >> > 'passing' nico squeezes.
> >> >
> >> > Mike C.
> >> >
> >> > PS-- my tool from whomever I bought it from came with the go/ no go gauge
> >> > and I use it on every single nicopress junction I make--take all of 2
> >> > seconds
> >> > to see if you've got a good press or not.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: empennage plans using tubing |
Hey Doug,
I'm in beautiful North Canton, OH.
Kip Gardner
On Sep 2, 2009, at 3:18 PM, Doug Dever wrote:
> Sorry Bill,
>
> Miss read the post. I too was planning some mods, such as the 612
> airfoil, but after going over the plans and the Flying and Glider
> reprint I question the performance gains of the 612. I really
> think most of Lowell's performance gains come from his Model A
> mods. =46rom what I've read the Piet flys and lands like an Aeronca
> which is one of the most well behaved tail draggers and that's good
> enough for me.
>
> Doug Dever
> In beautiful Stow Ohio
>
> do not archive
>
>
> Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
> Try it now.
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Hey that is GREAT Doug- why didn't you tell us you were from this area-- you don't
need the list, you just need Frank Pavliga, Don Emch
and myself plus Shad Bell and you got her licked.
The Piet is much like an Aeronca Champ but with about 10 mph---make that 15 mph
slower than a typical Champ...... but it is very much like the back
seat of a Champ or Cub on landing. With a person aboard a bit more challenging
but otherwise they have one big difference---the Piet will slow down
MUCH quicker than a Champ or Cub and stall-to-flare lots sooner than you think
it will. I tell new Pietenpol pilots to add power on final--- bleed off speed
at 3 to 4 feet off the ground and then chop the power, pull back the stick in yer
belly and enjoy a Coors Light.
Mike C.
Message 21
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Mike,
Thanks for the tips on landing, but how does one enjoy a Coors Light? >:-}
Jeff
>(GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>... at 3 to 4 feet off the ground and then chop the power, pull back
>the stick in yer belly and enjoy a Coors Light.
>
>Mike C.
>
--
Jeff Boatright
"Now let's think about this..."
Message 22
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| Subject: | empennage plans using tubing |
Mike=2C
Sounds like it flys like a champ=2C comes down like a tri-pacer and loses s
peed like a cable braced ultralight. I have flown all three. albeit not at
the same time--lol. I took my pvt check ride in a tri-pacer and the exami
ner pulled the power on me and I Picked out a field pretty much right under
us and he said what are you doing? There is an airport right over there.
I said that we wouldn't make it. he asked if I was sure. I told him I was
positive. Well=2C we wouldn't have made it half way! Btw=2C Mike I thi
nk you said you were based at Valley City. Isn't that Don Helmic's old pla
ce?
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> From: michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Date: Wed=2C 2 Sep 2009 18:32:04 -0500
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: empennage plans using tubing
>
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
>
> Hey that is GREAT Doug- why didn't you tell us you were from this area--
you don't need the list=2C you just need Frank Pavliga=2C Don Emch
> and myself plus Shad Bell and you got her licked.
>
> The Piet is much like an Aeronca Champ but with about 10 mph---make that
15 mph slower than a typical Champ...... but it is very much like the back
> seat of a Champ or Cub on landing. With a person aboard a bit more challe
nging but otherwise they have one big difference---the Piet will slow down
> MUCH quicker than a Champ or Cub and stall-to-flare lots sooner than you
think it will. I tell new Pietenpol pilots to add power on final--- bleed o
ff speed
> at 3 to 4 feet off the ground and then chop the power=2C pull back the st
ick in yer belly and enjoy a Coors Light.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast.
http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U
S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009
Message 23
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| Subject: | landing like a Champ |
I realize that we usually have these "fireside
chats" when it's too cold or wet (or both) to work
on airplanes or fly them, but we seem to have
gotten off to an early start this year since there
is still plenty of flying and building weather
according to my check of the Weather Channel. But
all this talk about landing the Piet has me thinking
back to the last time I flew a Cub. For some reason
it seemed like the stick in the Cub was very tall
and that when I pulled it back to flare, it was at
about chest height and it felt a bit odd pulling it
into the center of my chest to full-stall it rather
than into my lap. I'm sure that's not the case but
that's how I remember it.
Flying my airplane for more than an hour or so, I
sometimes wonder if the grip might not be more
comfortable if it had a cant or angle to it like
a helicopter or fighter plane stick grip rather
than being straight up and down at the handle. I
find that my hand wants to hold the butt end of the
stick for awhile rather than the grip part, to give
my hand a rest. I've just never seen a Piet with
anything other than a straight stick grip, with
the exception of one or maybe two of the Brit ones
who used the teardrop-loop grip of the old WWI
planes, leather lacing and all. Guess it's just me.
I'll be installing the Curtis quick-drain on my
oil sump tomorrow. I just couldn't bear to pay $70
for the fancier Aeroquip type even though it has
a stub to connect a bit of hose onto and the Curtis
does not. Forty bucks difference in cost; that's a
lot of oil changes.
Somebody want to put another log on the fire and
hand Mikee another "silver bullet" while the rest of
us enjoy a pint of REAL ale?
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: landing like a Champ |
Dang that was a heavy log. (cracking a cold shiner and ploping down)
This is a neat topic Oscar. I've never flown a stick airplane, but I have sat
in a few and as a taller fella I've often wondered if I might feel hunched over
when reaching down for the stick I can hear you over there John! Grab some
wood (aww geez), I mean, another log if you are just going to make wise cracks.
Anyhow, I wonder if the Piets control stick can be made taller than the ones I've
tried on? Perhaps those were fit to their pilot and maybe there was room for
more length? I've also considered a round top, like a backhoe control or something
so that I might just drive like that most of the time. Not sure what
I would prefer really... I guess I'll keep listening and maybe I'll formulate
a more educated opinion.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261140#261140
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools |
This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
Clif
Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However, there
we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at my
project. >
> Tim in central TX
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: landing like a Champ |
Real ale = Pietenpol
Coors Light = Foot launch ultralight
If I'm gonna get beer stains on my flying
scarf they'd better be the real thing!
Hahahaha Clif
> Somebody want to put another log on the fire and
> hand Mikee another "silver bullet" while the rest of
> us enjoy a pint of REAL ale?
>
> Oscar Zuniga
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools |
Clif,
I like your setup. I think I'll pass on riding the handle, though. I'll pass
on what I found best for me as I try several combos. A man with two tools, like
"a man with two clocks, never knows...."
My EAA buddy did not have a large vise, and if he did, I would not put his swaging
tool in it, pristine as it is. How he has built his airplane without a serious
vise I cannot fathom. I consider my heavy vise my best single tool, for
it can either hold parts or help form them with pressure, bending, impact, etc.
My thought was to vise it up as you have shown, here with my <$30 tool, as
well. AS&S sells a single-handled swager with which the other arm fastens to
the workbench. Same idea, but another $100 or more additional cost.
Another little trick to "gain a hand" is to put something on the cable to squeeze
it up to the thimble. It could be a 99 cent Home Depot steel clamp (green
vinyl tips), which I have by the dozens, and that we used at my buddy's shop.
Another trick would be to use a tiny U-bolt (one U-bolt, both ends threaded,
two nuts) or electrician's wire clamp (the threaded copper single-slotted bolt
and nut), but in either case tightened just enough not to permanently deform
the cable.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools
>
>This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
>you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
>
>Clif
>
>Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
>
>
> I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However, there
>we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at my
>project. >
>> Tim in central TX
>>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: landing like a Champ-- control stick |
I seem to recall some primitive cybernetics that said that a 7 degree angle was
the most comfortable grip for a human hand. That might be a reference point
for experimentation when the weather is dismal, right, Oscar?
BTW, I have a local friend with a Heath Parasol who is very happy with its teardrop
loop grip, leather cover and all.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:28 PM
>To: Pietenpol List <pietenpol-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: landing like a Champ
>
>
>
>I realize that we usually have these "fireside
>chats" when it's too cold or wet (or both) to work
>on airplanes or fly them, but we seem to have
>gotten off to an early start this year since there
>is still plenty of flying and building weather
>according to my check of the Weather Channel. But
>all this talk about landing the Piet has me thinking
>back to the last time I flew a Cub. For some reason
>it seemed like the stick in the Cub was very tall
>and that when I pulled it back to flare, it was at
>about chest height and it felt a bit odd pulling it
>into the center of my chest to full-stall it rather
>than into my lap. I'm sure that's not the case but
>that's how I remember it.
>
>Flying my airplane for more than an hour or so, I
>sometimes wonder if the grip might not be more
>comfortable if it had a cant or angle to it like
>a helicopter or fighter plane stick grip rather
>than being straight up and down at the handle. I
>find that my hand wants to hold the butt end of the
>stick for awhile rather than the grip part, to give
>my hand a rest. I've just never seen a Piet with
>anything other than a straight stick grip, with
>the exception of one or maybe two of the Brit ones
>who used the teardrop-loop grip of the old WWI
>planes, leather lacing and all. Guess it's just me.
>[TRUNCATED]
>Oscar Zuniga
>Air Camper NX41CC
>San Antonio, TX
>mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
>website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
>
Message 29
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|
Tim,
You are so right about the vise. And mine has an added feature...a flat
spot, like an anvil, only it's for setting my Pale Ale down.
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Willis
Sent: Wednesday, September 02, 2009 7:35 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using
Nicopresstools
<timothywillis@earthlink.net>
Clif,
I like your setup. I think I'll pass on riding the handle, though. I'll
pass on what I found best for me as I try several combos. A man with two
tools, like "a man with two clocks, never knows...."
My EAA buddy did not have a large vise, and if he did, I would not put his
swaging tool in it, pristine as it is. How he has built his airplane
without a serious vise I cannot fathom. I consider my heavy vise my best
single tool, for it can either hold parts or help form them with pressure,
bending, impact, etc. My thought was to vise it up as you have shown, here
with my <$30 tool, as well. AS&S sells a single-handled swager with which
the other arm fastens to the workbench. Same idea, but another $100 or more
additional cost.
Another little trick to "gain a hand" is to put something on the cable to
squeeze it up to the thimble. It could be a 99 cent Home Depot steel clamp
(green vinyl tips), which I have by the dozens, and that we used at my
buddy's shop. Another trick would be to use a tiny U-bolt (one U-bolt, both
ends threaded, two nuts) or electrician's wire clamp (the threaded copper
single-slotted bolt and nut), but in either case tightened just enough not
to permanently deform the cable.
Tim in central TX
-----Original Message-----
>From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
>Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using
Nicopresstools
>
>This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
>you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
>
>Clif
>
>Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
>
>
> I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However, there
>we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at my
>project. >
>> Tim in central TX
>>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: go/ no go tool--- a must when using Nicopresstools |
Well if he gets it flying then he shouldn't call it a Pietenpol,
I think he should name it snow flake! does it snow in Australia?
The little snowflake removable wings, tube spars by now he's
got a airfoil off the space shuttle, there is however a little snow flake in
all of us
and to tell you the truth Bernard Pietenpol started building another
plane by plans then scrapped it and built his own, I'm sure
he picked some ideals up from his original plan that was crossed
over from the original plane he started to build.
Russell
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 10:35 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Clif,
>
> I like your setup. I think I'll pass on riding the handle, though. I'll
> pass on what I found best for me as I try several combos. A man with two
> tools, like "a man with two clocks, never knows...."
>
> My EAA buddy did not have a large vise, and if he did, I would not put his
> swaging tool in it, pristine as it is. How he has built his airplane
> without a serious vise I cannot fathom. I consider my heavy vise my best
> single tool, for it can either hold parts or help form them with pressure,
> bending, impact, etc. My thought was to vise it up as you have shown, here
> with my <$30 tool, as well. AS&S sells a single-handled swager with which
> the other arm fastens to the workbench. Same idea, but another $100 or more
> additional cost.
>
> Another little trick to "gain a hand" is to put something on the cable to
> squeeze it up to the thimble. It could be a 99 cent Home Depot steel clamp
> (green vinyl tips), which I have by the dozens, and that we used at my
> buddy's shop. Another trick would be to use a tiny U-bolt (one U-bolt, both
> ends threaded, two nuts) or electrician's wire clamp (the threaded copper
> single-slotted bolt and nut), but in either case tightened just enough not
> to permanently deform the cable.
>
> Tim in central TX
>
> -----Original Message-----
> >From: Clif Dawson <CDAWSON5854@shaw.ca>
> >Sent: Sep 2, 2009 8:57 PM
> >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> >Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: go/ no go tool--- a must when using
> Nicopresstools
> >
> >This is my setup. If you really, really need two hands on the cable
> >you could mount it low and sit on the handle.
> >
> >Clif
> >
> >Seneca: "There is no great genius without a tincture of madness."
> >
> >
> > I got the second and third crimps with that tool, as well. However,
> there
> >we had two sets of hands to hold things, something I do not have here at
> my
> >project. >
> >> Tim in central TX
> >>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Nicopress tools |
The heat muff pics on the west coast piet site are abou as explanitory as i
t gets.- The front of that muff is open and the scat hose goes to the car
b box.- The muff is actually just a piece of stainless pipe the same stuf
f the exaust is made of, just cut in half, no vanes or media inside.- It
does ok I guess 50-75 rpm drop.
Shad=0A=0A=0A
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