---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/04/09: 48 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:13 AM - Re: MERFI, 9 days away (Tim White) 2. 04:28 AM - Re: Another sketch (Michael Perez) 3. 06:30 AM - Wood List (K5YAC) 4. 07:05 AM - Re: Another sketch (Gary Boothe) 5. 07:12 AM - Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool (Jim Markle) 6. 07:19 AM - Re: Wood List (Peter W Johnson) 7. 07:31 AM - Re: Wood List (K5YAC) 8. 07:35 AM - Re: Another sketch (Michael Perez) 9. 07:54 AM - Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool (Glenn Thomas) 10. 08:03 AM - 2 Corvair Engines (Glenn Thomas) 11. 08:17 AM - Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool (Bill Princell) 12. 09:09 AM - Fuselage "tray" for Model A (Michael Perez) 13. 09:41 AM - Gussets vs. Wedges (Matt Redmond) 14. 09:43 AM - Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool (Gene & Tammy) 15. 09:53 AM - Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Gary Boothe) 16. 09:55 AM - Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Ed G.) 17. 10:11 AM - Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Ryan Mueller) 18. 10:12 AM - Re: Another sketch (Ameet Savant) 19. 10:12 AM - Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Bill Church) 20. 10:22 AM - Re: 2 Corvair Engines (Gene & Tammy) 21. 10:23 AM - Re: Another sketch (Bill Church) 22. 10:34 AM - Re: alternative to nicopress (899PM) 23. 10:42 AM - Re: Another sketch (Ryan Mueller) 24. 10:42 AM - Re: Another sketch (Michael Perez) 25. 10:42 AM - Re: Another sketch (Bill Church) 26. 11:13 AM - Re: Another sketch (Bill Church) 27. 11:58 AM - Re: Another sketch (mike) 28. 12:10 PM - Re: Another sketch (amsafetyc@aol.com) 29. 12:54 PM - Re: stick height-- phone books (Michael Groah) 30. 03:14 PM - Re: Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Matt Redmond) 31. 03:26 PM - Wood Source in Texas? (Matt Redmond) 32. 03:44 PM - Re: Re: Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Ryan Mueller) 33. 05:04 PM - Pulleys in Center Section (John Egan) 34. 05:24 PM - Re: Re: Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Matt Redmond) 35. 05:35 PM - Mike Cushway-- Sport Aviation Article in Sept. Sport Aviation (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 36. 05:44 PM - 2 Corvair Engines-- available in CT (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 37. 05:57 PM - gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 38. 06:18 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Gary Boothe) 39. 07:01 PM - Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? (shad bell) 40. 07:08 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 41. 07:23 PM - Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? (Don Emch) 42. 07:54 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Matt Dralle) 43. 07:55 PM - Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 44. 07:58 PM - Re: Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]) 45. 08:13 PM - Re: Reply to John about bendix mags (shad bell) 46. 08:25 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Tim Willis) 47. 08:53 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Matt Redmond) 48. 08:53 PM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Jim Markle) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:13:52 AM PST US From: "Tim White" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MERFI, 9 days away I'll be there as a camp host. Looking forward to seeing Your Piet again. Tim White ----- Original Message ----- From: shad bell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 3:07 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: MERFI, 9 days away Guys, Who plans on going to the mid eastern regional fly-in on the Sat the 12th? It is at Urbana Grimes Airport. They do have grass, and pavement. I am planning on flying over, leaving around 9am or so. So if any of you want to fly over togeather let me know, I can even gas you up here at centerburg (100LL). I went last year and had a pretty good time, but the weather was kind of crapy in the a.m. Let me know, my buddy might fly over with his cub as well, so I might have to go practice my "slower" flight to keep from out running him. Missing out on the good flying weather due to replacing all the brake lines on my truck, and fixing the rear bumper on my wifes car, and no they are not related. Shad ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:40 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Thanks Bill, always good to read one of your posts. I do have my gussets la rger then I drew in my sketch in Paint.- I have them extended as you have shown, however, this brings up yet another question then. If from what I d rew originally and what you drew with the added size, does, in fact almost double the contact area and add strength, why not go larger vertically as w ell? I mean, how is one to know how large of a gusset is large enough or ge tting to large? (or getting too small?) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:30:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood List From: "K5YAC" A while back I acquired a wood list from someone, but I cant remember if it was here on the mailing list of if someone e-mailed it to me. I have a 3-page scan of an old order named Walt-1, 2 and 3, which is helpful, but that is not what Im looking for. The list Im thinking of was an old typed page and it had hand written notes all over it, along with Buckeye Piet or something to that effect. Maybe it was part of the Walt files, but I cant seem to find that particular page. Anyone know what Im talking about? I've already received my wood order, but I am trying to make sense of it and that particular list included some notes for many of the parts I'm looking at. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261397#261397 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:05:01 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Simple..follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C's ability to engineer, like me. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Thanks Bill, always good to read one of your posts. I do have my gussets larger then I drew in my sketch in Paint. I have them extended as you have shown, however, this brings up yet another question then. If from what I drew originally and what you drew with the added size, does, in fact almost double the contact area and add strength, why not go larger vertically as well? I mean, how is one to know how large of a gusset is large enough or getting to large? (or getting too small?) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:43 AM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool www.woot.com This could be useful for cleaning up extra epoxy drips, etc....makes fairly precise cuts with minimum dust.... This is a "today only" website so if anyone is thinking about buying one, here's a fantastic price with just $5 shipping.... jm ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:19:13 AM PST US From: "Peter W Johnson" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Wood List Mark, Try here. http://www.cpc-world.com/images/mat_list.jpg Cheers Peter Wonthaggi Australia http://www.cpc-world.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of K5YAC Sent: Friday, 4 September 2009 11:30 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood List A while back I acquired a wood list from someone, but I cant remember if it was here on the mailing list of if someone e-mailed it to me. I have a 3-page scan of an old order named Walt-1, 2 and 3, which is helpful, but that is not what Im looking for. The list Im thinking of was an old typed page and it had hand written notes all over it, along with Buckeye Piet or something to that effect. Maybe it was part of the Walt files, but I cant seem to find that particular page. Anyone know what Im talking about? I've already received my wood order, but I am trying to make sense of it and that particular list included some notes for many of the parts I'm looking at. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261397#261397 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:13 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Wood List From: "K5YAC" Thanks for the list Peter, but the one I am looking for was a very close match to the wood package I ordered, and it also has some notes by the line items, which identified what parts were to be used for certain assemblies. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261405#261405 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:35:44 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Understood Gary, I was asking an engineering question as to how the gusset size is determined.=C2- Maybe this list is not the place to research such things, but as always, one thing leads to another and another... =C2- Following the plans is the way to go, I just get curious as to how the plan s were derived in the first place. --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Gary Boothe wrote: From: Gary Boothe Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Simple.follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C =99s ability to engineer, like me. =C2- Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done,=C2-Fuselage=C2-on gear (14 ribs down) From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-lis t-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Perez Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 4:27 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch =C2- Thanks Bill, always good to read one of your posts. I do have my gussets la rger then I drew in my sketch in Paint.=C2- I have them extended as you h ave shown, however, this brings up yet another question then. If from what I drew originally and what you drew with the added size, does, in fact almo st double the contact area and add strength, why not go larger vertically a s well? I mean, how is one to know how large of a gusset is large enough or getting to large? (or getting too small?) =C2- =C2-http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comhttp://www.matroni cs.com/contribution =C2- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:31 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool From: "Glenn Thomas" I bought one of those ($99.00 at Home Depot) and it has come in handy many, many times in the 8 months I've had it. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261411#261411 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:20 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 Corvair Engines From: "Glenn Thomas" I've got 2 1965 "RH" block Corvair engines for sale. Just decided that I want to rebuild a Continental instead. I took a wrench to the lot where they were and made sure they turned. They've been in my garage ever since. Also, have them on wooden cradles with casters so they can be rolled around the garage. $275 for each engine/cradle. Northeastern, CT. Can deliver within a reasonable distance (about 100 miles) from my house for an additional charge depending on distance. Email me off-list. -------- Glenn Thomas N????? http://www.flyingwood.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261412#261412 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:17:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool From: Bill Princell I bought mine at Harbor Freight $39.95 on sale. Best tool in my shop Bill Princell - On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Jim Markle wrote: > jim_markle@mindspring.com> > > www.woot.com > > This could be useful for cleaning up extra epoxy drips, etc....makes fairly > precise cuts with minimum dust.... > > This is a "today only" website so if anyone is thinking about buying one, > here's a fantastic price with just $5 shipping.... > > jm > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:16 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage "tray" for Model A >From what I understand, the tray area at the front fuselage was intended for model A Ford use. I will not be using a model A and will be putting a fuel tank up there. Can I omit this tray in the build and if so, how do I re-configure that front area and maintain the strength required? Thanks up front. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:41:28 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges From: Matt Redmond Hi Folks, I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges. In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets are stronger. We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts (particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict or cut wedges - either will be quite easy. My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there an advantage to using one over the other? Thanks! ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:43:25 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool Best Harbor Freight tool I've ever bought! Use it all the time. Gene ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Princell To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Handy tool: Dremel Multi-Max Oscillating Tool I bought mine at Harbor Freight $39.95 on sale. Best tool in my shop Bill Princell - On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Jim Markle wrote: www.woot.com This could be useful for cleaning up extra epoxy drips, etc....makes fairly precise cuts with minimum dust.... This is a "today only" website so if anyone is thinking about buying one, here's a fantastic price with just $5 shipping.... jm ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 09/04/09 05:51:00 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:36 AM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges Matt, You need both. As someone pointed out, earlier, there are fittings that get bolted to both sides of the wedge/gusset areas on the fuselage. I surely don't know Mr. Pientenpol's thoughts, but the wedges appear to be backing for the gussets, which are for strength. These are in the 4 landing gear areas, only. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Redmond Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:34 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges Hi Folks, I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges. In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets are stronger. We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts (particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict or cut wedges - either will be quite easy. My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there an advantage to using one over the other? Thanks! ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:21 AM PST US From: "Ed G." Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges The plans call for gussetts and they work fine. Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges From: mdredmond@gmail.com Hi Folks=2C I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges . In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another=2C that guss ets are stronger. We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts (parti cularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict or c ut wedges - either will be quite easy. My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same=2C is ther e an advantage to using one over the other? Thanks! _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail=AE is up to 70% faster. Now good news travels really fast. http://windowslive.com/online/hotmail?ocid=PID23391::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-U S:WM_HYGN_faster:082009 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:11:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges From: Ryan Mueller Well, a Pietenpol wing rib built with gussets only has thousands upon thousands of hours flown by hundreds and hundreds of aircraft (if not more) over 80 years. I suppose you could hold out for a larger sample size.....or just build it to the plans. Have a good day! Ryan On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Matt Redmond wrote: > Hi Folks, > > I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and > I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges. > In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets > are stronger. > > We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts > (particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict > or cut wedges - either will be quite easy. > > My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there > an advantage to using one over the other? > > Thanks! > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:17 AM PST US From: Ameet Savant Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Maybe I am misunderstanding this test, but I don't see how this testing procedure tests the rib. It seems it is testing the fake spar's strength. If you were to remove the rib and load the fake spar with the same 1000 lbs you would get the same result. Also, if the fake spar was longer, it would have a lot more internal stress when loaded with the 1000lbs. That is following the same principle as a longer piece of wood is easier to break than a shorter one. In my mind If you were to test a shorter spar you would have to increase the load proportional to the reduction of the length. (All else being equal) I am confused and would like to learn more about this rib testing. Thanks Ameet --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Robert Ray wrote: > From: Robert Ray > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Date: Thursday, September 3, 2009, 10:07 PM > I tested a rib, if you look at the old > glider manuals you'll see them sand bagging a rib, > I took a couple of boards and cut them down to the > size of spars, I then took > a rib that I wanted to destroy, gussetts one side only > (not completed) I glued the > rib in the middle of the 3 foot section of fake spars, > I then set both ends > of the fake spar on saw horses, I then added 500 > lb's of weight, nothing broke, > I then went to a friend's house and got 500 pounds > of tractor wheel weights > and placed 1000 pounds on the rib, WOW's all I > could think. > this was 3/8 by 1/4 boat grade DF with 1/16 gl-2 birch > gussets. > Most of the cross members didn't even set flush > but gapped filled with raka epoxy > and silica. > > russell ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:12:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges From: "Bill Church" Matt, Are you talking specifically about the ribs? If so, stick to the gussets, like the plans show. I can't imagine trying to glue all those tiny little wedges in place! YUCK. If you're talking about the rest of the plane - use gussets where the plans call for gussets, and add the wedges where the plans call for wedges. In general, in the Pietenpol, the gussets are used to increase the strength of the joints, and the wedges are used to provide some "meat" behind the gussets in areas where fittings are attached to the plane (landing gear, etc.) By the way, what exactly did you read? Did the author make a blanket statement that wedges are stronger than gussets (or vice-versa)? Or was the author making reference to a particular situation or application? I don't think there's a hard and fast rule - there are WAY too many variables involved. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:54 AM PST US From: "Gene & Tammy" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: 2 Corvair Engines Glenn, for what it's worth. While I was completely rebuilding my A 65 I found that " Woody Herman 715-967-2119 1-800-279-3168" had the best prices on new & used parts. A really good guy to deal with. If you call, leave a msg and he will always get back to you. I love my A 65 and find it has plenty of power, even on hot days, for my Piet. I'm running a Jay Anderson 76X38 prop and the combination is everything I could hope for. I don't feel any need to upgrade to a 75 or 85. Climb is all I'm concerned with, and it does it very well. If I wanted to go faster, I wouldn't be flying a Piet. Gene in Tennessee N502R ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Thomas" Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:02 AM Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 Corvair Engines > > > I've got 2 1965 "RH" block Corvair engines for sale. Just decided that I > want to rebuild a Continental instead. I took a wrench to the lot where > they were and made sure they turned. They've been in my garage ever > since. Also, have them on wooden cradles with casters so they can be > rolled around the garage. $275 for each engine/cradle. > > Northeastern, CT. Can deliver within a reasonable distance (about 100 > miles) from my house for an additional charge depending on distance. > > Email me off-list. > > -------- > Glenn Thomas > N????? > http://www.flyingwood.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261412#261412 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 05:51:00 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:07 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch From: "Bill Church" The method I use to determine whether the gusset is the right size is the following: I measure my gusset, then I compare my measurement to the size shown in the plans. If they match, we're good to go. I know, this sounds like a joke, but it really isn't. The plans call for the fuselage gussets to be 1/8" x 2 1/4" and cut in lengths to fit. So the correct size of the gussets for this plane will be 2 1/4" wide, and just long enough to cover the diagonals and uprights. Making the gussets longer than that will add weight, and use more plywood, but will provide very little additional strength. Making the gussets shorter could result in a considerably weaker joint. The size of a required gusset could be determined by taking into account the forces expected to be acting upon the joint, coupled with the strength of the various materials, and the strength of the adhesive. Then, the bond area (the contact between frame and gusset) could be calculated, and from that the configuration of the gusset could be established. I'm sure that IF someone with the proper technical background was so inclined, and performed a detailed structural analysis of the fuselage structure, they would probably find that the 2 1/4" dimension might be a bit of "overkill" in certain areas. Maybe in certain locations the gussets would only need to be 2", or 1 7/8" or whatever. Sounds like a lot of work with very little benefit. If we keep in mind that this aircraft was designed by a man with no formal education in aircraft design, and was designed 80 years ago, to be built by an average person with no special skills or equipment, it becomes easy to see why the gussets are all the same width. It keeps things simple. Simple is good. Set the fence of the table saw at 2 1/4", and run a sheet of plywood through, to produce strips which can be easily trimmed to length to suit each location. One thing we do know for sure is, that when built to the plans, the thing works. Bill C. ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:58 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: alternative to nicopress From: "899PM" I am on the list....just kind of quiet. Glad you enjoyed the pc. Mike Cushway -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261453#261453 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1247_132.jpg ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:49 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch From: Ryan Mueller Do tell, how did you manage to balance 1000 lbs of sandbadgs and cast iron weights on top of the 1/2" wide capstrip of one rib? Ryan On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 10:07 PM, Robert Ray wrote: > I tested a rib, if you look at the old glider manuals you'll see them sand > bagging a rib, > I took a couple of boards and cut them down to the size of spars, I then > took > a rib that I wanted to destroy, gussetts one side only (not completed) I > glued the > rib in the middle of the 3 foot section of fake spars, I then set both ends > of the fake spar on saw horses, I then added 500 lb's of weight, nothing > broke, > I then went to a friend's house and got 500 pounds of tractor wheel weights > and placed 1000 pounds on the rib, WOW's all I could think. > this was 3/8 by 1/4 boat grade DF with 1/16 gl-2 birch gussets. > Most of the cross members didn't even set flush but gapped filled with raka > epoxy > and silica. > > russell > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:50 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Copy Bill. I ripped a bunch of 1/8th at 2.25" and cut them to size as shown on the plans...going to the outer most edge of the wood pieces. (as drawn in a sketch posted earlier of mine.)- - One thing to keep in mind folks, if you have the supplementary plans and wi ll be using those larger engine mounts, the plywood on the inside of the fu selage for those mounts needs to be a little wider...I believe more like 3" or so.- FYI. --- On Fri, 9/4/09, Bill Church wrote: From: Bill Church Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch The method-I use to determine whether the gusset is the right size is the following: I measure my gusset, then I compare my measurement to the size shown in the plans. If they match, we're good to go. I know, this sounds like a joke, but it really isn't. The plans call for the fuselage gussets to be 1/8" x 2 1/4" and cut in leng ths to fit. So the correct size of the gussets for this plane will be 2 1/4 " wide, and just long enough to cover the diagonals and uprights. Making th e gussets longer than that will-add weight, and use more plywood, but wil l provide very little additional strength. Making the gussets shorter-cou ld result in a considerably weaker joint. The size of a required gusset could be determined by taking into account th e forces expected to be acting upon the joint, coupled with the strength of the various materials, and the strength of the adhesive. Then, the bond ar ea (the contact between frame and gusset) could be calculated, and from tha t the configuration of the gusset could be established. I'm sure that IF someone with the proper technical background was so inclin ed,-and performed a detailed structural analysis of the fuselage structur e, they would probably find that the 2 1/4" dimension might be a bit of "ov erkill" in certain areas. Maybe in certain locations-the gussets-would only need to be 2", or 1 7/8" or whatever. Sounds like a lot of work with v ery little benefit. If we keep in mind that this aircraft was designed by a man with no formal education in aircraft design, and was designed 80 years ago, to be built by an average person with no special skills or equipment, it becomes easy to see why the gussets are all the same width. It keeps- things simple. Simple-is good. Set the fence of the table saw at 2 1/4", and run a sheet of plywood through, to produce strips which can be easily t rimmed to length-to suit each location. One thing we do know for sure is, that when built to the plans, the thing w orks. - Bill C.--- - ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 10:42:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch From: "Bill Church" Gary, I do have an engineering background, which occasionally gives me a slightly better than average understanding of why things are built the way they are. But I DO NOT have a background in aeronautical engineering. Sooo... I follow the plans. Bill C. ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Simple....follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C's ability to engineer, like me. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down...) ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:13:10 AM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch From: "Bill Church" Maybe...? ________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:39 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Do tell, how did you manage to balance 1000 lbs of sandbadgs and cast iron weights on top of the 1/2" wide capstrip of one rib? Ryan ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:58:23 AM PST US From: "mike" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Like Jack Phillips and several others on this list, I do have an aeronautical engineering background. However, I think we all agree that eighty years of proof-by-pudding beats all heck out of theory and analysis. Build to plan. Mike Hardaway _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Church Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:42 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Gary, I do have an engineering background, which occasionally gives me a slightly better than average understanding of why things are built the way they are. But I DO NOT have a background in aeronautical engineering. Sooo... I follow the plans. Bill C. _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 10:05 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch Simple..follow the plan; especially if you do not have Bill C's ability to engineer, like me. Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:10:05 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Another sketch From: amsafetyc@aol.com QmlsbCwgZG9uJ3QgYmUgbW9kZXN0IG5vIHJvb20gZm9yIGl0IGhlcmUuIEp1c3QgZ29vZCBzb2xp ZCBhZHZpY2UgYmFja2VkIHVwIGJ5IGVkdWNhdGlvbiwgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBhbmQgYXBwbGll ZCBzY2llbmNlLiAgDQoNCkRvIG5vdCBhcmNoaXZlDQoNCkpvaG4NClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBWZXJp em9uIFdpcmVsZXNzIEJsYWNrQmVycnkNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZy b206ICJCaWxsIENodXJjaCIgPGVuZ0BjYW5hZGlhbnJvZ2Vycy5jb20+DQoNCkRhdGU6IEZyaSwg NCBTZXAgMjAwOSAxMzo0MjoxMyANClRvOiA8cGlldGVucG9sLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4N ClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogQW5vdGhlciBza2V0Y2gNCg0KDQpHYXJ5LA0K IA0KSSBkbyBoYXZlIGFuIGVuZ2luZWVyaW5nIGJhY2tncm91bmQsIHdoaWNoIG9jY2FzaW9uYWxs eSBnaXZlcyBtZSBhDQpzbGlnaHRseSBiZXR0ZXIgdGhhbiBhdmVyYWdlIHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmcg b2Ygd2h5IHRoaW5ncyBhcmUgYnVpbHQgdGhlDQp3YXkgdGhleSBhcmUuDQpCdXQgSSBETyBOT1Qg aGF2ZSBhIGJhY2tncm91bmQgaW4gYWVyb25hdXRpY2FsIGVuZ2luZWVyaW5nLg0KIA0KU29vby4u LiBJIGZvbGxvdyB0aGUgcGxhbnMuDQogDQpCaWxsIEMuDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fDQoNCkZyb206IG93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25p Y3MuY29tDQpbbWFpbHRvOm93bmVyLXBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0LXNlcnZlckBtYXRyb25pY3MuY29t XSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgR2FyeQ0KQm9vdGhlDQpTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAwNCwg MjAwOSAxMDowNSBBTQ0KVG86IHBpZXRlbnBvbC1saXN0QG1hdHJvbmljcy5jb20NClN1YmplY3Q6 IFJFOiBQaWV0ZW5wb2wtTGlzdDogQW5vdGhlciBza2V0Y2gNCg0KDQoNClNpbXBsZS4uLi5mb2xs b3cgdGhlIHBsYW47IGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgaWYgeW91IGRvIG5vdCBoYXZlIEJpbGwgQydzDQphYmls aXR5IHRvIGVuZ2luZWVyLCBsaWtlIG1lLg0KDQogDQoNCkdhcnkgQm9vdGhlDQoNCkNvb2wsIENh Lg0KDQpQaWV0ZW5wb2wNCg0KV1cgQ29ydmFpciBDb252ZXJzaW9uLCBtb3VudGVkDQoNClRhaWwg ZG9uZSwgRnVzZWxhZ2Ugb24gZ2Vhcg0KDQooMTQgcmlicyBkb3duLi4uKQ0KDQogDQoNCg= ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:54:56 PM PST US From: Michael Groah Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stick height-- phone books I'm not Mike Cuy, but my thoughts are that you'd be better off leaving the seat alone and using a cushion (more comfortable than just the wood) if you wanted to move yourself up in the fuselage.- Then you could also remove it if you wanted to be lower in the fuse , ...... but this is just my thoug hts, my Piet isn't flying yet.- Mike Groah Tulare CA --- On Thu, 9/3/09, Tim Willis wrote: From: Tim Willis Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: stick height-- phone books et> Mike, a serious question and an observation.- Why was the 2" higher seat dumb-- was it more wind on the pilot on cool day s?- I would think the seat would be more comfortable, esp. lessening pull ing on the back of the legs, but maybe more height makes the instruments ha rder to read, unless the panel is slanted.- Pls reply.- I live about 100 miles north of Oscar, and wore long pants outside 6 days l ast winter.- Winter is a non-event.- OTOH, we just had the hottest summ er in Texas history-- period.- The 100F plus days may be over, but the 10 -day forecast here is for highs of 92-99.- Yes, autumn is coming.- Osca r might start wearing a jacket in his Piet in December.- Tim in central TX -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" >Sent: Sep 3, 2009 8:45 AM >To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" >Subject: Pietenpol-List: stick height-- phone books > ospace Corporation]" > >Oscar-- just sit on a phone book when you're flying and you won't have to modify your >stick height at all.- - My seat is 2" higher than plans (boy was that stupid) >so it feels just about right.--- > >You're right about the Coors Light but Jack Phillips good friend Jim Dukem an (an avid, avid Young Eagles coordinator and all round nice guy) came by when John Hofmann, Jack, and I were setting up tents and dinning canopies o n a hot afternoon at Oshkosh a month ago and offered us ice (I mean ice col d) cold brews and you know how they say when someone else does the cooking it always tastes better-- same with this scenario.---It was just the right refreshment at just the right time in just the right setting, and I w asn't thinking about work, home chores, car repairs, taking the dogs to the vet, or how my 85 year old mother is doing in Florida.---Life IS GOO D !--- > >Mike C. > >And Oscar, FYI, this time of year we call them camp fire side chats.-- -We'll move the chats indoors about November if that works for you Texans .- - > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 03:14:14 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Gussets vs. Wedges From: Matt Redmond Thanks, guys, for your replies. I was talking about using wedges instead of gussets, particularly in the wing ribs. Of course anywhere the plans called for both we'd use both. I was just wondering if a wedges were suitable replacements for gussets where only gussets were specified by the plans. I'll try to find the references. They were definitely contradictory regarding the relative strength of gussets versus wedges. Both made general statements and neither was a technical evaluation of one or the other. One source was the EAA wood book. I'll have to find the other. Matt ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 03:26:06 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas? From: Matt Redmond Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be? Thanks, Matt ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 03:44:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Gussets vs. Wedges From: Ryan Mueller I studied the proposal, and I conclude that unfortunately wedges would not be suitable replacements for gussets. Per my analysis, the lightest and strongest means of constructing the wing rib joints would be with the gussets. Of course, anywhere the plans call for using both, it would be prudent to do so. But otherwise, based on a quick running of numbers, the gussets win out. HTH, Ryan On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:52 PM, Matt Redmond wrote: > Thanks, guys, for your replies. > > I was talking about using wedges instead of gussets, particularly in the > wing ribs. Of course anywhere the plans called for both we'd use both. I > was just wondering if a wedges were suitable replacements for gussets where > only gussets were specified by the plans. > > I'll try to find the references. They were definitely contradictory > regarding the relative strength of gussets versus wedges. Both made general > statements and neither was a technical evaluation of one or the other. One > source was the EAA wood book. I'll have to find the other. > > Matt > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 05:04:44 PM PST US From: John Egan Subject: Pietenpol-List: Pulleys in Center Section Hello Builders,=0A=0ARegarding the three piece wing center section.- Coul d you guys help me understand-how to mount the two airleron pulleys in th e center wing section?- I am specifically speaking about what to do with the pulley bolt.- Two through holes for the pulley bracket pass through t he center section spar, however what have you done regarding the pulley bol t? Do you simply counterbore a blind hole to accomodate the head of the bol t for the pulley between the- pulley bracket and the spar, or should the bracket get shimmed far enough off the spar to accomdate the bolt head? I h ope I am clear with my question. I am building from the Vi Kaplar center se ction print included with the Piet plans.=0A=0AThanks all, I appreciate you r comments.=0A=0AJohn E.=0AWisconsin=0AJust finished my wing jury struts=0A =0A=0A ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: RE: Gussets vs. Wedges From: Matt Redmond Thanks, Ryan (and everyone else)! On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:28 PM, Ryan Mueller wrote: > I studied the proposal, and I conclude that unfortunately wedges would not > be suitable replacements for gussets. Per my analysis, the lightest and > strongest means of constructing the wing rib joints would be with the > gussets. Of course, anywhere the plans call for using both, it would be > prudent to do so. But otherwise, based on a quick running of numbers, the > gussets win out. > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 05:35:13 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: Mike Cushway-- Sport Aviation Article in Sept. Sport Aviation Mike Cushway has been a long-time Pietenpol enthusiast and was at Brodhead--good to see you again Mike and glad that you're back into Pietenpol building. Mike has built, among other things-- wooded floats (gorgeously stunning) for a Pietenpol, a gorgeous wood canoe, and if not mistaken had the Sky Scout for a while that Earl Myers (in Ohio) started to build but then later sold it to Dennis Hall of Brodhead who eventually finished with some help from Ted Davis I believe. That's the black and red-trimmed Ford Scout you see at Brodhead once in a while. Note the original builder's NX number.....EM for Earl Myers. (who got out of airplanes totally many years ago and is now into model trains) But as usual...I digress. Andrew King is a whiz at soldered cable joints as well as Frank Pavliga. If you looked at Frank's Lambert-powered Sky Gypsy at Bhead it now features solder-wrapped cables. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:44:28 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: 2 Corvair Engines-- available in CT "Glenn Thomas" I've got 2 1965 "RH" block Corvair engines for sale. Just decided that I want to rebuild a Continental instead. I took a wrench to the lot where they were and made sure they turned. They've been in my garage ever since. Also, have them on wooden cradles with casters so they can be rolled around the garage. $275 for each engine/cradle. Northeastern, CT. Can deliver within a reasonable distance (about 100 miles) from my house for an additional charge depending on distance. Email me off-list. I don't know much about Corvairs Glenn but that sounds like a GREAT PRICE--- and you have TWO of them ??? Those should go fast. The guys at Clark's might even pay you $300 each for them...unless someone from the list is lucky enough to get them first. I sold a couple of pairs of some Corvair headlight chromed/ polished ? rim trims to Clarks that I found under an old barn in the farmhouse that I used to rent and got decent money for them--- which they in turn sold on their web site/ catalog. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 05:57:58 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if they still do that ? I digress. Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my living guts out. Let's get onto something slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male menopause so don't look at me crossways or sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't even own one of those anymore do they ?) or frying pan your way. Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not compromise anything in your Piet since I know you are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to right on the fuselage front right at the firewall and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up that little side-to-side tray that goes across the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:43 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful: Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless directions. BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Aerospace Corporation]" Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if they still do that ? I digress. Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my living guts out. Let's get onto something slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male menopause so don't look at me crossways or sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't even own one of those anymore do they ?) or frying pan your way. Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not compromise anything in your Piet since I know you are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to right on the fuselage front right at the firewall and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up that little side-to-side tray that goes across the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. Mike C. ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:13 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is an unof ficial 80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New Phillidelphia (Clever Airport).- Dad might go over, I have to work hopefully it is a good turn out, if you go eat a stack of flapjacks for me. - Shad p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend?=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 07:08:49 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? Gary B. in Cool CA. No, I'm not going astray, I just had too much Starbucks today and way too much fun being around the Thunderbirds up close who are here at our NASA hangar for the Cleveland Air Show. Here's my answer ala Pietenpol list to your question above: Answer: Gary, I like RV's. My wife and I don't have one but we like tent camping but sometimes it would be nicer to have a solid roof and walls around us. Response: RV's can be expensive and you only use them like boats-- during the season. Think about it Mike. Another post: We had an RV once and the toilet used to clog up after my wife and I would go to the all-you-could-eat buffet in downtown Periora. It was horrible. She said she'd divorce me if we didn't get a nicer RV. Suggestion: Rob Busch writes from NY state: "guys-- I was wandering thru Lowe's the other day and couldn't help but be mesmerized by this brand new toilet that advertised it could "flush a bucket of golf balls" without clogging. That's what you need-- one of those in your RV. Post: Was it a large bucket of balls or the super-size they said could be flushed Rob because bucket sizes of golf balls vary from driving range to driving range now. Some are even using synthetic golf balls which are said to give you and extra 10% more drive distance. Another post: Synthetic golf balls are banned from PGA events so don't even think about using them. They were not around when Bernard built his airplane so you have to go to the cross-reference table to see if your balls compared to his. ....and so it goes but it sure can be entertaining and I've learned alot over the years from all these postings and contrary to Gary's belief...I'm not going off the deep end. I don't even like deep ends-- they are scary. I start out in the kids end of the pool usually. Mike C For God sakes please DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:50 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? From: "Don Emch" Hey Shad, I'm planning to meet up with Frank early Sunday and head down to New Philly. I got a call from someone there asking if I would go. Frank got a call too. For whatever reason they seem to want to honor the 80th of the Piet. Should be fun. I look for your dad. Looks like the weather should be nice. I'm debating weather or not I can go to MERFI. I'll keep in touch with you and let you know. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261521#261521 ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 07:54:30 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? At 06:55 PM 9/4/2009 Friday, you wrote: > > > Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? > >>Response: RV's can be expensive and you only use them like boats-- during the season. Think about it Mike. >>>Another post: We had an RV once and the toilet used to clog up after my wife and I would go to the all-you-could-eat buffet in downtown Periora. It was horrible. What!? What you got against RVs! I love my RV-8... ;-) They are expensive like a boat, tho, that's no lie... I'm not sure I can fit a toilet - clogged or otherwise - in my RV, though... Matt Dralle RV-8 #82880 N998RV http://www.mykitlog.com/dralle FWF/Cowling & Baffling >For God sakes please DO NOT ARCHIVE ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 07:55:09 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? Shad-- New Philly is on a Sunday so by the time I'd get there it would be over but I did hear that they were going to be honoring the 80th Piet Anniversary. I'm a maybe for Grimes, MERFI. I have to look it up-- I've never been there. You're only going Sat. then back home right ? Mike C. ________________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of shad bell [aviatorbell@yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 8:59 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? Ohio area guys, Dad said he got a call from someone saying there is an unofficial 80th piet celibration on sunday the 6th at New Phillidelphia (Clever Airport). Dad might go over, I have to work hopefully it is a good turnout, if you go eat a stack of flapjacks for me. Shad p.s. is anyone going to MERFI next weekend? ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 07:58:10 PM PST US From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? Shad--- Don--- So New Philly is THIS Sunday no ? Hmmm.........ARe you guys going to make me miss church ? :))) Thanks for the head's up-- I had it written down but my notes are at work. Mike C. ________________________________________ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don Emch [EmchAir@aol.com] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:23 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: New Philly Piet fly-in on sunday? Hey Shad, I'm planning to meet up with Frank early Sunday and head down to New Philly. I got a call from someone there asking if I would go. Frank got a call too. For whatever reason they seem to want to honor the 80th of the Piet. Should be fun. I look for your dad. Looks like the weather should be nice. I'm debating weather or not I can go to MERFI. I'll keep in touch with you and let you know. Don Emch NX899DE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261521#261521 ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 08:13:00 PM PST US From: shad bell Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Reply to John about bendix mags John email me off list if you can, My email has been messed up for about a month, and I can not compose an email, however I can reply and all works we ll.=C2- shad Shad. Reminder bendix mags and box pricing John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From: shad bell Subject: Pietenpol-List: MERFI, 9 days away Guys, Who plans on going to the mid eastern regional fly-in on the Sat the 12th?=C2- It is at Urbana Grimes Airport.=C2- They do have grass, and p avement.=C2- I am planning on flying over, leaving around 9am or so.=C2 - So if any of you want to fly over togeather let me know, I can even gas you up here at centerburg (100LL).=C2- I went last year and had a pretty good time, but the weather was kind of crapy in the a.m.=C2- Let me know , my buddy might fly over with his cub as well, so I might have to go pract ice my "slower" flight to keep from out running him. =C2- Missing out on the good flying weather due to replacing all the brake lines on my truck, and fixing the rear bumper on my wifes car, and no they are n ot related. Shad === =C2=C2=B7=BA~=B0=C3=AD=C2=B2,=C3=9Eg(=93=C5-=C3=93M 4=C3=93G=C3=9Aq=C3=BC=C2=A2=C3=AA=C3=A2z=C2=B9=C3=9E=C3=81=C3=8A.=C2=AE'=C2 =AB8^>'=C2=ADzzh=9D=C2=B8=C2=AC=C2=B4I=C5=A1=C5-Qh=C2=AE=C3=A9R=C3 =87=C2=AD=C3=A3=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C5-=C3=8BEy=C2=ABn =C2=AD=C3=AB j=C3=B8=C2-j=C3=9A+=C2=B6-=C3=AB=C2=A3=C3=98^=84 =A2=C2=A9=C3=B2.+-=C2=BA=C3=98=C2=A5=C5-=C3=98=C5=BE=C2=B2=C3=8B=C5=93 =C2=AB=C5-=C3=8BT=C5=B8=C3=B4=C2=AEn=C3=87+=C5-=BAb=C2=A2p =C2=AD=C3=88b=C2=BD=C3=A4=C5=BEj=C2=B7!=C5=92'=93-=EF=BD =C3=AC6=C2=B2=C2=BA0=C2=B1=C3-=C2=A1j=C3=91@C=C3=A1=C2=A2=C3=9A, =C2=AA=C3=9Ejwf=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=B9=C3=88f=C2=A2=C2=B7=EF=BD=C2=A8ky=C3 =B1=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC=C3 '=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5- =C3=8Ba=C2=B6=C3=9A=C30=84=A2=C2=ABk=C2=A2x=C5=93=C2=B1=C3=8A&=C3=BC =C3'=C2=AF=C5-=C2=AD=C2=A2=C2=B3=C3=A2z=C3=97=C2=A7=C2=B0K=C5 -=C3=8Bl4N4=82=AC=99X@E9L=C5=A1=84=A2=C3=A8+y=C2=AB\=C2=A2{^ =C5=BE=C3'=C2=A5=C2=B2-=C2=AFj)ZnW=C2=AF=B0=C2=ABayg =BA=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1j=C3=9E|m=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE=C5=A1=C3=89 =C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2hm=C2=B6=C5=B8=C3~=C5-=C3=AE =C5=A1=C3=89=C5=A1=C2=B6=C2=BA'=B0=C3=8B=C2=A2o=C3=9A=C3=A2=C2=B2=C3 =90=C2=A8=C5=BE=C3=9A=C3=A2n=C3=ABb=C2=A2u=C5=BEm(=C2=AD|=C3=A1jy2=C2=A2=C3 =A7=C3=A8=C2=AF*.=C2=AE=C2=A7z=C2=BA.=C2=B2=C3=8B=C2=A9=C2=C5-=C3=AD =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 08:25:19 PM PST US From: Tim Willis Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Mike, I found this a funny reply, thanks. I forwarded it to a couple of guys in my EAA group. They are two of only four builders in the chapter who are NOT building an RV. One, John, building a Skybolt, says, "I don't know why I come, all they talk about is starting or finishing another bloody RV!" The RVs are nice, fast for the bucks, and a sure path (turn the well-documented page, 700 more rivets) to a satisfying flying experience. Follow the directions and you get a great airplane. Call or email questions to a great kit support group. But that experience is all so different, and I think much less fun, than what we have in the Pietenpol community, both building and flying. We all know that, and appreciate it. With the RVs, where is the individuality in it-- which glass panel, what upholstery or paint job? I guess in the F1 Rocket and some other derivatives, or some other innovations of which I am unaware. I'll admit a lot of ignorance here, and that is fine by me. We can be sure the RVers don't discuss wedgies and latex paint. How many RVers do you think read the article on soldered cable ends? Re YOUR RV, Mike: I have a 23 foot 1983 Mini-Winnie in the back yard. I liked it for awhile, esp. when it was "my first Texas home," while looking for and remodeling our house. The raccoons still want to make it home, but not me. Maybe we can turn it into a theme park attraction, with the commode and a bucket of balls? Thanks for the grins. Tim in central TX do not archive -----Original Message----- >From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" >Sent: Sep 4, 2009 8:55 PM >To: "pietenpol-list@matronics.com" >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? > > > > Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? > > >Gary B. in Cool CA. No, I'm not going astray, I just had too much Starbucks today and way too much fun being >around the Thunderbirds up close who are here at our NASA hangar for the Cleveland Air Show. > >Here's my answer ala Pietenpol list to your question above: > > >Answer: Gary, I like RV's. My wife and I don't have one but we like tent camping but sometimes it would be nicer to have a solid roof >and walls around us. > >Response: RV's can be expensive and you only use them like boats-- during the season. Think about it Mike. > >Another post: We had an RV once and the toilet used to clog up after my wife and I would go to the all-you-could-eat buffet in downtown Periora. It was horrible. > She said she'd divorce me if we didn't get a nicer RV. > >Suggestion: Rob Busch writes from NY state: "guys-- I was wandering thru Lowe's the other day and couldn't help but be mesmerized by this brand new toilet > that advertised it could "flush a bucket of golf balls" without clogging. That's what you need-- one of those in your RV. > >Post: Was it a large bucket of balls or the super-size they said could be flushed Rob because bucket sizes of golf balls vary from driving range to driving range now. > Some are even using synthetic golf balls which are said to give you and extra 10% more drive distance. > >Another post: Synthetic golf balls are banned from PGA events so don't even think about using them. They were not around when Bernard built his airplane >so you have to go to the cross-reference table to see if your balls compared to his. > >....and so it goes but it sure can be entertaining and I've learned alot over the years from all these postings and contrary to Gary's belief...I'm not going off >the deep end. I don't even like deep ends-- they are scary. I start out in the kids end of the pool usually. > >Mike C > >For God sakes please DO NOT ARCHIVE > > ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? From: Matt Redmond >>>We can be sure the RVers don't discuss wedgies <<< Hmm... I'm an RVer and I'm the one that brought up the wedgies! (got an RV-9 underway but the Piet is way more romantical - must have also) Matt ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 08:53:49 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas? Alpha Aviation Supply CO 70 Majors Rd Greenville, TX 75402(Dallas, TX Metro Area) Phone: (903) 455-3113 Russ Chambers. He's out at Majors Airfield in Greenville. One of the nicest people you'll ever meet. Not sure if he's kept the business open or not but I would never consider a trip anywhere near Greenville without stopping by for a visit. A good guy. He's a quiet spoken fellow that knows more about the aviation business than most. By the way, his son Ken is (well you BETTER be still working on it Ken!!) building a Piet in Austin (or maybe it's San Antonio). The Chambers are nice people. jm From: Matt Redmond Sent: Sep 4, 2009 4:25 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas? Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be? 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