Pietenpol-List Digest Archive

Mon 09/07/09


Total Messages Posted: 37



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 06:30 AM - Precolored dacron (outofthebox50@yahoo.com)
     2. 07:22 AM - Re: Precolored dacron (Doug Dever)
     3. 08:22 AM - Re: Precolored dacron (Ed G.)
     4. 09:26 AM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Ken Chambers)
     5. 09:29 AM - Re: Precolored dacron (Doug Dever)
     6. 09:51 AM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Matt Redmond)
     7. 10:02 AM - Re: Wood List (Billy McCaskill)
     8. 11:28 AM - Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Jack Phillips)
     9. 11:42 AM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Jim Markle)
    10. 11:49 AM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Jack Phillips)
    11. 12:14 PM - Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, etc. (Jack Phillips)
    12. 12:24 PM - Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, 	puking, etc. (Ryan Mueller)
    13. 12:43 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Gary Boothe)
    14. 12:54 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Jack Phillips)
    15. 02:54 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Dick N.)
    16. 03:34 PM - great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    17. 03:43 PM - Gary Boothe's progress  (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
    18. 04:05 PM - Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ (Jack Phillips)
    19. 04:13 PM - Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- (Pieti Lowell)
    20. 04:18 PM - Jack's video (Jerry Dotson)
    21. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- (Jack Phillips)
    22. 04:41 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Jim Markle)
    23. 04:42 PM - Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (helspersew@aol.com)
    24. 05:21 PM - another great day of Piet flying (Oscar Zuniga)
    25. 05:42 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (H RULE)
    26. 06:13 PM - Jacks video (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
    27. 06:52 PM - Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- (K5YAC)
    28. 06:57 PM - Re: another great day of Piet flying (K5YAC)
    29. 07:04 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex 	paint maybe ? (Robert Ray)
    30. 07:10 PM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (tkreiner)
    31. 07:19 PM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (tkreiner)
    32. 07:55 PM - Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (tkreiner)
    33. 08:46 PM - Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Ryan Mueller)
    34. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ (Jim)
    35. 09:03 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex 	paint maybe ? (Owen Davies)
    36. 09:27 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress  (Gary Boothe)
    37. 11:34 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress  ()
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 06:30:26 AM PST US
    Subject: Precolored dacron
    From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com
    Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind, it misses the desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint, and precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of paint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought, paint the thing and leave the nag at home ;-) Anyways, just interested in your thoughts. Blast away! Jeremy Bramall Dallas, TX Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile


    Message 2


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    Time: 07:22:34 AM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Precolored dacron
    I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine. Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30% for solvent evaporation. 60lbs! Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron > From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com > Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000 > > > Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-) > > Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away! > > Jeremy Bramall > Dallas=2C TX > Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009


    Message 3


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    Time: 08:22:25 AM PST US
    From: "Ed G." <flyboy_120@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Precolored dacron
    This is an excelent subject Doug. I have done alot of paint work over the y ears too on cars=2C trucks=2C boats=2C buildings etc and when I have read o f the quantities and weights of what is descibed as needed to paint a small fabric plane I have never quite got it!! Iv'e read in the Poly Fiber manua l about it taking 8 gallons of Poly brush plus 11 gallons poly spray plus 1 1 gallons of Poly tone to paint a Piper Cub!!=2C this just behooves me. And then I read about the guys that put on two or three coats of latex and the y're done. For those guys that have done the aircraft paint route: Does it really take 30 gallons of product to paint a Piper Cub??????? That's just h ard for me to believe!! Hope everyone has a great Labor Day.. Ed Grentzer From: chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine. Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30% for solvent evaporation. 60lbs! Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron > From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com > Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000 > > > Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-) > > Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away! > > Jeremy Bramall > Dallas=2C TX >====================== &g====== > > > Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. Find out more. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009


    Message 4


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    Time: 09:26:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Source in Texas?
    From: Ken Chambers <ken.riffic@gmail.com>
    Hey Tim Fine lumber is all I know of here. I've been getting my spruce from aircraft spruce and my plywood from boulter. I ordered a 6' piece of VG doug fir from Fine Lumber last week. For my center section. It looks like it's going to be a little pricey but if the quality is good it might be worth saving shipping. Ken On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote: > timothywillis@earthlink.net> > > Ken, > > Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX. > Ken, do you know of such a source? > > (I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but > no fir or spruce.) > > Thanks, > Tim in central TX (Georgetown) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ken Chambers > Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas? > > > Hey Matt > > That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He > moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired > and doesn't sell wood any more. > > Ken > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote: > > > Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in > Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur > Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be? > > Thanks, > > Matt > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > tp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > > -- > Ken Chambers > 512-796-1798 > > -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798


    Message 5


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    Time: 09:29:01 AM PST US
    From: Doug Dever <chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Precolored dacron
    Ed=2C Keep in mind that dope=2C either nitrate or butyrate is mostly solvent (lot s of coats to get any kind of fill.) So=2C to use several gallons would no t add that much weight. It would take several gallons to fill the weave. If you are only concerned about protecting the fabric from UV damage (dacro n's enemey) then all you really need after a couple coats of nitrate is th e aluminum coat. This brings me to another subject. I read of some people using black for a UV barrier. I question how effective this is. The reaso n aluminum is used is it reflects all light. Black is the absence of color meaning that all light rays are absorbed. White is the presnece of all co lors meaning that all light is reflected. If you want a lesson in this punch test a fabric airplane on the white and then on the color. If the color is dark (red green blue) and the fabric ha s been on for 10-20yrs the color will puch at half the strength of the whit e. In filling the weave of fabric=2C all you need is to fill the valleys. W hen we built up fabric planes we sanded between coats(once you get enough o n to protect the threads). The way to do this is to spray on a complete=2C but thin coat of primer called a guard coat. You sand until you only have primer left in the valleys. This is a simplification=2C but you get the i dea. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: flyboy_120@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron This is an excelent subject Doug. I have done alot of paint work over the y ears too on cars=2C trucks=2C boats=2C buildings etc and when I have read o f the quantities and weights of what is descibed as needed to paint a small fabric plane I have never quite got it!! Iv'e read in the Poly Fiber manua l about it taking 8 gallons of Poly brush plus 11 gallons poly spray plus 1 1 gallons of Poly tone to paint a Piper Cub!!=2C this just behooves me. And then I read about the guys that put on two or three coats of latex and the y're done. For those guys that have done the aircraft paint route: Does it really take 30 gallons of product to paint a Piper Cub??????? That's just h ard for me to believe!! Hope everyone has a great Labor Day.. Ed Grentzer From: chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine. Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30% for solvent evaporation. 60lbs! Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron > From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com > Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000 > > > Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-) > > Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away! > > Jeremy Bramall > Dallas=2C TX >====================== &g====== > > > Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. Find out more. st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. Find out more. _________________________________________________________________ With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos. http://www.windowslive.com/Desktop/PhotoGallery


    Message 6


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    Time: 09:51:45 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Source in Texas?
    From: Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com>
    Ken, I think that was it. Sorry to hear he's not selling wood anymore... But semi-retired sounds nice! Matt On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Ken Chambers <ken.riffic@gmail.com> wrote: > > Hey Matt > > That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He > moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired > and doesn't sell wood any more. > > Ken > > > On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in >> Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur >> Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Matt >> >> * >> >> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >> tp://forums.matronics.com >> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >> * >> >> > > > -- > Ken Chambers > 512-796-1798 > > * > > * > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 10:02:17 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood List
    From: "Billy McCaskill" <billmz@cox.net>
    If I'm not mistaken, this looks just like the wood list that came with the Grega GN-1 plans package. I have those plans in additon to my Piet plans, and I think I remember seeing this list in the GN-1 builder's notes. Billy McCaskill Urbana, IL Baton Rouge, LA Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261891#261891


    Message 8


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    Time: 11:28:40 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Gussets vs. Wedges
    Build it per MIL-T-FD4, A change Jack Phillips NX899JP _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:02 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges Well, a Pietenpol wing rib built with gussets only has thousands upon thousands of hours flown by hundreds and hundreds of aircraft (if not more) over 80 years. I suppose you could hold out for a larger sample size.....or just build it to the plans. Have a good day! Ryan On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote: Hi Folks, I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges. In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets are stronger. We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts (particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict or cut wedges - either will be quite easy. My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there an advantage to using one over the other? Thanks!


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:42:57 AM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: Re: Wood Source in Texas?
    There's also a place over by Love Field, Architectural Carpentry Materials on Owens St. They have lots of doug fir and will let you sort through it. If that's what you want. They probably have some western cedar and who knows what else. I spent a lot of time digging through their lumber and found a lot of good, in spec doug fir. Wouldn't do it that way again. I would just use spruce and be done with it. For stuff like maple and mahogany, Hardwood Lumber of Dallas on Goodnight is really good. Huge selection. Won't give you the nice dose of aviation I always got from Russ but I guess these will do... :-) jm -----Original Message----- From: Ken Chambers Sent: Sep 7, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas? Hey Tim Fine lumber is all I know of here. I've been getting my spruce from aircraft spruce and my plywood from boulter. I ordered a 6' piece of VG doug fir from Fine Lumber last week. For my center section. It looks like it's going to be a little pricey but if the quality is good it might be worth saving shipping. Ken On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote: Ken, Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX. Ken, do you know of such a source? (I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but no fir or spruce.) Thanks, Tim in central TX (Georgetown) -----Original Message----- From: Ken Chambers Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas? Hey Matt That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired and doesn't sell wood any more. Ken On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote: Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be? Thanks, Matt " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List tp://forums.matronics.com _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798 ========== st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List ========== http://forums.matronics.com ========== le, List Admin. ="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ========== -- Ken Chambers 512-796-1798


    Message 10


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    Time: 11:49:50 AM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Watch it, now... Jack Phillips Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP RV-4 N18LR RV-10 in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful: Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless directions. BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if they still do that ? I digress. Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my living guts out. Let's get onto something slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male menopause so don't look at me crossways or sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't even own one of those anymore do they ?) or frying pan your way. Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not compromise anything in your Piet since I know you are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to right on the fuselage front right at the firewall and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up that little side-to-side tray that goes across the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. Mike C.


    Message 11


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    Time: 12:14:31 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking,
    etc. Dan, How are you managing to build and paint an airplane in such a dinky little shop? _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of helspersew@aol.com Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:51 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, etc. Gentlemen, While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there ARE some of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively, and making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of my one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully castored so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may have to add a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it looks like it will function as desired. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:24:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking,
    etc.
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    Probably has to push everything out on to the ramp just to be able to move around at all.... do not archive On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote: > Dan, > > > How are you managing to build and paint an airplane in such a dinky little > shop? > > > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of * > helspersew@aol.com > *Sent:* Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:51 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, > puking, etc. > > > Gentlemen, > > > While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there > ARE *some* of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively, > and making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of > my one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully > castored so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may > have to add a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it > looks like it will function as desired. > > > Dan Helsper > > Poplar Grove, IL. > > * > > > * > >


    Message 13


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    Time: 12:43:07 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow, forever... This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal attachment fittings done! ...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Watch it, now... Jack Phillips Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP RV-4 N18LR RV-10 in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful: Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless directions. BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if they still do that ? I digress. Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my living guts out. Let's get onto something slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male menopause so don't look at me crossways or sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't even own one of those anymore do they ?) or frying pan your way. Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not compromise anything in your Piet since I know you are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to right on the fuselage front right at the firewall and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up that little side-to-side tray that goes across the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. Mike C.


    Message 14


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    Time: 12:54:06 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol over the lake. Check it out at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8 minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol. BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It is 39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though. Jack Phillips NX899JP -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow, forever... This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal attachment fittings done! ...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do... Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Watch it, now... Jack Phillips Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP RV-4 N18LR RV-10 in progress -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful: Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless directions. BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (14 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if they still do that ? I digress. Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my living guts out. Let's get onto something slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male menopause so don't look at me crossways or sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't even own one of those anymore do they ?) or frying pan your way. Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not compromise anything in your Piet since I know you are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to right on the fuselage front right at the firewall and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up that little side-to-side tray that goes across the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. Mike C.


    Message 15


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    Time: 02:54:11 PM PST US
    From: "Dick N." <horzpool@goldengate.net>
    Subject: Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Very nice video, Jack. Greg Cardinal and I both flew our Piet's to a country fly in yesterday. The morning air was the best I've had all summer. It was an 80 mi. run for me and I enjoyed every mile. It was a small private airport and the owner, Doug Ward, just bought a Piet project and had it on the flight line. I wish that I had remembered the video camera. I have been out flying quite a bit lately and have rarely cracked above 700' agl. Dick N. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:50 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? > <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain > Lake, > Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who > has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol > over the lake. Check it out at: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8 > minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol. > > BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It > is > 39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low > and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though. > > Jack Phillips > NX899JP > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary > Boothe > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex > paint maybe ? > > > Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow, > forever... > > This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the > metal > attachment fittings done! > > ...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do... > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (15 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack > Phillips > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex > paint maybe ? > > <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > > Watch it, now... > > Jack Phillips > Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP > RV-4 N18LR > RV-10 in progress > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary > Boothe > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex > paint maybe ? > > > You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful: > > Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and > groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending > himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in > countless > directions. > > BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm > worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (14 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, > Michael > D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] > Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex > paint > maybe ? > > Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> > > > Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder > if > they still do that ? I digress. > > Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my > living guts out. Let's get onto something > slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? > > Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male > menopause so don't look at me crossways or > sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't > even own one of those anymore do they ?) or > frying pan your way. > > Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not > compromise anything in your Piet since I know you > are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of > plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the > white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to > right on the fuselage front right at the firewall > and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. > > If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed > up > that little side-to-side tray that goes across > the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to > support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons > of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. > > Mike C. > > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 03:34:24 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y


    Message 17


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    Time: 03:43:01 PM PST US
    From: "Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
    Subject: Gary Boothe's progress
    Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the day that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step of progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport that has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you gents are cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the Pietenpol torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the up and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the living crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der Pietenpol Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof. Mike C. Cleveland, OH


    Message 18


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    Time: 04:05:45 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
    that------ If you watch closely right at the end of the video, you can see a nice buck run behind the Pietenpol and run across the runway. He was running alongside for a while as I landed. I'm going to have to set up a treestand and take my bow up there - every day we see deer on the runway and it's just a matter of time before somebody hits one. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y


    Message 19


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    Time: 04:13:01 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
    that-----
    From: "Pieti Lowell" <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
    Jack, you have very little elevator angle, and a great shadow shot. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261938#261938


    Message 20


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    Time: 04:18:51 PM PST US
    Subject: Jack's video
    From: "Jerry Dotson" <jdotson@erec.net>
    Jack what a beautiful video. I feel almost like I was along for the ride! I was talking about your airplane. The scenery was pretty too. -------- Jerry Dotson 59 Daniel Johnson Rd Baker, FL 32531 Started building NX510JD July, 2009 Ribs all done using Lycoming O-235 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261939#261939


    Message 21


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    Time: 04:23:39 PM PST US
    From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
    Subject: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
    that----- I've got about a degree of incidence in the horizontal stabilizer, still have to hold a bit of down elevator - less with a passenger in the front. -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pieti Lowell Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:13 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- <Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com> Jack, you have very little elevator angle, and a great shadow shot. Pieti Lowell Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261938#261938


    Message 22


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    Time: 04:41:58 PM PST US
    From: Jim Markle <jim_markle@mindspring.com>
    Subject: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Very nice video, thanks for sharing. -----Original Message----- >From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> >Sent: Sep 7, 2009 2:50 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? > > >Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain Lake, >Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who >has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol >over the lake. Check it out at: >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8 >minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol. > >BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It is >39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low >and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though. > >Jack Phillips >NX899JP > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe >Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex >paint maybe ? > > >Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow, >forever... > >This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal >attachment fittings done! > >...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do... > >Gary Boothe >Cool, Ca. >Pietenpol >WW Corvair Conversion, mounted >Tail done, Fuselage on gear >(15 ribs down.) > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack >Phillips >Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex >paint maybe ? > ><pietflyr@bellsouth.net> > >Watch it, now... > >Jack Phillips >Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP >RV-4 N18LR >RV-10 in progress > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe >Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex >paint maybe ? > > >You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful: > >Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and >groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending >himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless >directions. > >BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm >worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you? > >Gary Boothe >Cool, Ca. >Pietenpol >WW Corvair Conversion, mounted >Tail done, Fuselage on gear >(14 ribs down.) > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael >D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] >Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM >To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com >Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint >maybe ? > >Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> > > >Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if >they still do that ? I digress. > >Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my >living guts out. Let's get onto something >slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? > >Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male >menopause so don't look at me crossways or >sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't >even own one of those anymore do they ?) or >frying pan your way. > >Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not >compromise anything in your Piet since I know you >are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of >plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the >white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to >right on the fuselage front right at the firewall >and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. > >If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up >that little side-to-side tray that goes across >the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to >support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons >of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. > >Mike C. > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 04:42:38 PM PST US
    Subject: Pegasus Auto Racing catalog
    From: helspersew@aol.com
    Hi Guys, This place has a lot of items that are applicable to airplane homebuilding. Full line of AN hardware and fittings, light weight seat belts and harnesses, light weight brake discs and calipers?etc. www.PegasusAutoRacing.com. Get a catalog and check it out. I wish I had this a few years ago. Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL.


    Message 24


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    Time: 05:21:44 PM PST US
    From: Oscar Zuniga <taildrags@hotmail.com>
    Subject: another great day of Piet flying
    Nothing earth-shattering, just another beautiful day of Piet flying. I put 2.8 hours on the new engine, which is now back into standard service after flying off the required 5 hours of test time, and it is running great. Flew down to Zapata with a fuel stop at Cotulla about 72 miles into the trip. I had forgotten just how silky-smooth the air can be early in the morning. Absolutely without a ripple or bump. It was the first time in a very long time when I've been able to tell the tiny nuances of rig and trim on the airplane because most of my flying is done in the afternoons and it's bumpy enough to mask any subtle differences in those conditions. Flying in the smooth morning air, trimmed out in cruise, I could tell that the airplane wants to yaw to the left, so I'll need to tweak the rudder trim tab a bit. What a delightful airplane, tooling along at about 70-72 MPH and 1700', watching the towns and country roads start to come alive with activity on this Labor Day morning. Watched an aerial applicator make his turn directly in front of me and then finish off a circular field off to my left, then land to fill his hopper again. 41CC is sporting new wrinkle-finish black paint on the face of the whiskey compass, so it flew extra nice today ;o) Same old compass, new face, better performance ;o) Go finish your airplanes this winter, folks, so you can go fly next spring. You won't regret it. Pick an airfoil, decide whether you want gussets or wedges, but finish and fly. Some mornings in the airplane are like a dream come true. Oscar Zuniga Air Camper NX41CC San Antonio, TX mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com website at http://www.flysquirrel.net


    Message 25


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    Time: 05:42:29 PM PST US
    From: H RULE <harvey.rule@rogers.com>
    Subject: Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Three things I noticed about that clip;number one the grin on the pilot was just the same as supermans in the first movie;number two the scenery was f antastic and it was a good clean clear take and number three did ya notice the deer run behind them as they taxied back.I'll bet some folks are going to take another look at that clip now.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________ __________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-l ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, September 7, 2009 3:50:35 PM=0ASubject: R E: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint mayb llsouth.net>=0A=0AJust had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to S mith Mountain Lake,=0AVirginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there.- I took up a friend who=0Ahas a nice video camera and he shot some good foo tage from the Pietenpol=0Aover the lake.- Check it out at:=0Ahttp://www.y outube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8=0Aminutes loo king at scenery from a Pietenpol.=0A=0ABTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol.- It is=0A39 minutes by RV-4, so there a re some advantages to flying other than low=0Aand slow.- I still prefer t he Pietenpol, though.=0A=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0A=0A=0A-----Original Me ssage-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owne r-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe=0ASent: Mon day, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubjec t: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apain 5@comcast.net>=0A=0ANot that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just say in'....low & slow,=0Aforever...=0A=0AThis weekend I got both butt ribs buil t for the center section and the metal=0Aattachment fittings done!=0A=0A... not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...=0A=0AGary Boothe=0ACoo l, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuselage o n gear=0A(15 ribs down.)=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-piet enpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matro nics.com] On Behalf Of Jack=0APhillips=0ASent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1 1:46 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: g ussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apaint maybe ?=0A=0A--> Piete npol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"=0A<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0A =0AWatch it, now...=0A=0AJack Phillips=0APietenpol Air Camper NX899JP=0ARV- 4 N18LR=0ARV-10 in progress=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-p ietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma tronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe=0ASent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9: 15 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gus sets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apaint maybe ?=0A=0A--> Pietenp ol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>=0A=0AYou se e? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:=0A=0AGrown men, joining in a g ang-like, group pile-on of name calling and=0Agroundless accustations of so me faceless soul, incapable of defending=0Ahimself. Instead, we have to twi st and tear a simple wood joint in countless=0Adirections.=0A=0ABTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm=0Aworried. Your n ot gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?=0A=0AGary Boothe =0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuse lage on gear=0A(14 ribs down.)=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owne r-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server @matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael=0AD. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Co rporation]=0ASent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@ matronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk , Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC=0AAerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa. gov>=0A=0A=0A=0ARemember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in schoo l ?- I wonder if=0Athey still do that ?- - I digress.=0A=0AHey, can w e drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my=0Aliving gu ts out.- Let's get onto something=0Aslightly less nauseating like using h ouse paint or something okay ?=0A=0ASorry-- I had too much coffee after din ner tonight and am going thru male=0Amenopause so don't look at me crossway s or=0Asideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't=0Aeven own one of those anymore do they ?) or=0Afrying pan your way. =0A=0AMike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not =0Acompromise anything in your Piet since I know you=0Aare leaning toward u sing a Continental.- You retain the big slabs of=0Aplywood by the upper m otor mounts, you retain the=0Awhite ash-doweled-in crossmember up- front that goes side-to-side left to=0Aright on the fuselage front right at the f irewall=0Aand you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument pane l.=0A=0AIf you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I b eefed up=0Athat little side-to-side tray that goes across=0Athe top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to=0Asupport the weigh t of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons=0Aof fuel.- - Wish I was at wor k-- I'd attach the sketch.=0A=0AMike C.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ==


    Message 26


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    Time: 06:13:16 PM PST US
    From: AMsafetyC@aol.com
    Subject: Jacks video
    Jack, is that all you plan to do the rest of your life, cash for rides? Jack nice job on the video an inspiration to all us builders hoping we can do the same in our own Piets. Thanks for sharing John Safe in the morning!


    Message 27


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    Time: 06:52:44 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
    that-----
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    Awesome video Jack... beautiful out there. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261971#261971


    Message 28


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    Time: 06:57:42 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: another great day of Piet flying
    From: "K5YAC" <hangar10@cox.net>
    I can't wait! Jack's video and now your vivid description. I want to fly too! I did what I could... several hours of work this weekend. -------- Mark - working on wings Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261972#261972


    Message 29


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    Time: 07:04:34 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ?
    From: Robert Ray <rray032003@gmail.com>
    The wood working book I think it's a Tony Bingalis (spelling) any how I got the book from the EAA is very specific, it says a wedge in a 1'' x 1'' that has one inch side increased the glued areas from one to three counting the butt end of the member, a gusset thats 3 inches long and 3 inches high increases it to six meaning that there is six times the surface area glued. I think in the area of the wing strut and landing gear I'll have wedges 180 degrees and gussets. BIRCH wedges not okume, it you look at the Grega plan it is specific that the sides be 3/32 mahogany and the inside gussets be BIRCH. 1/8. Russell On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote: > Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> > > > Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder > if they still do that ? I digress. > > Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my > living guts out. Let's get onto something > slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ? > > Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male > menopause so don't look at me crossways or > sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't > even own one of those anymore do they ?) or > frying pan your way. > > Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not > compromise anything in your Piet since I know you > are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of > plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the > white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to > right on the fuselage front right at the firewall > and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel. > > If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up > that little side-to-side tray that goes across > the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to > support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons > of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch. > > Mike C. > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 07:10:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Source in Texas?
    From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com>
    Matt, Tim in TX, et al, Clarke's Hardwoods, in Houston, is due to receive (if they have not already), a new shipment of VG (vertical grain) Sitka Spruce. They already have a nice selection of Doug Fir VG, as well. Most of the fir is rough, and will need to be planed. Along with the above mentioned, they stock Finnish birch plywood in an AB/B rating - identical to AS&S's, but at somewhat higher price. Only sold in 4x4 sheets. They also have Okume, and Baltic Birch ply in 4X8 sheets. I spent about 2 hours looking over their stock, and, as a local source to me in Spring, TX, I will probably purchase from them as I can pick the stuff I want. It is pricier, but because they are local, I can get what I need when I want it, without shipping or waiting. Here's their link: http://www.clarkshardwoodlumberco.com/index.php TK -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261979#261979


    Message 31


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    Time: 07:19:02 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Wood Source in Texas?
    From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com>
    Matt, Tim in TX, et al, Forgot to mention, the Okume and Birch Ply carried by Clarke's Hardwoods, are Marine Grade, with waterproof, boilproof adhesives. TK -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261985#261985


    Message 32


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    Time: 07:55:05 PM PST US
    Subject: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
    From: "tkreiner" <tkreiner@gmail.com>
    Since the topics of Gussets, wedges, etcs. have been bouncing around for a while, I thought it might be interesting to see how ribs were designed in the '30's and '40's. My source for the information presented below is from Chapter 1 (Aircraft Woodwork), page 7, of Brimm & Boggess' 1940 publication "Aircraft Maintenance." This chapter illustrates - both verbally and with lots of illustrations - how ribs were originally made. According to the authors, the centerlines of the various truss elements in a rib were to intersect at a common point; that point being the centerline of the cap strip. That said, they give no explanation, but it's almost intuitive that the overall joint will be stronger, due to a significantly larger glue joint. Since I've designed - along with Harry Riblett himself - a Piet rib using the GA30-613.5 airfoil, I've incorporated this design technique in the design. The entire rib, leading edge items, etc., have been modeled using SolidWorks. Although FEA analysis could be used to determine the strength, and/or load factor of the wing, I don't believe that's necessary, as this wing, using the original Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only change I've made is the use of a lower drag, lower pitching moment shape. (OK, OK, I know some of you will flame me... I'm really NOT a heretic, just looking for a tiny improvement... ) In the accompanying jpeg, you'll see how the centerlines of all elements intersect. If you're able to find a copy, this book show many valuable techniques, just as Sportplane Construction Techniques does. I've seen them on eBay for around $30. TK -------- Tom Kreiner Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261989#261989 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_layout_1_184.jpg


    Message 33


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    Time: 08:46:07 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940
    From: Ryan Mueller <rmueller23@gmail.com>
    While it may be a warm fuzzy to have the centerlines of all joints perfectly intersect, it has been proven that that is not really a huge issue. As long as the members arrive at the same location and are properly secured by gussets there will be no problem. Just out of curiosity, with your rib redesign are you fixing a perceived deficiency that you have experienced while flying a Pietenpol, or are you fixing a theoretical deficiency based on secondhand anecdotal evidence? Ryan On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:54 PM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote: > > Since the topics of Gussets, wedges, etcs. have been bouncing around for a > while, I thought it might be interesting to see how ribs were designed in > the '30's and '40's. My source for the information presented below is from > Chapter 1 (Aircraft Woodwork), page 7, of Brimm & Boggess' 1940 publication > "Aircraft Maintenance." > > This chapter illustrates - both verbally and with lots of illustrations - > how ribs were originally made. According to the authors, the centerlines of > the various truss elements in a rib were to intersect at a common point; > that point being the centerline of the cap strip. That said, they give no > explanation, but it's almost intuitive that the overall joint will be > stronger, due to a significantly larger glue joint. > > Since I've designed - along with Harry Riblett himself - a Piet rib using > the GA30-613.5 airfoil, I've incorporated this design technique in the > design. The entire rib, leading edge items, etc., have been modeled using > SolidWorks. Although FEA analysis could be used to determine the strength, > and/or load factor of the wing, I don't believe that's necessary, as this > wing, using the original Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only change > I've made is the use of a lower drag, lower pitching moment shape. (OK, OK, > I know some of you will flame me... I'm really NOT a heretic, just looking > for a tiny improvement... ) > > In the accompanying jpeg, you'll see how the centerlines of all elements > intersect. > > If you're able to find a copy, this book show many valuable techniques, > just as Sportplane Construction Techniques does. I've seen them on eBay > for around $30. > > TK > > -------- > Tom Kreiner > >


    Message 34


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    Time: 08:46:19 PM PST US
    From: Jim <jimboyer@hughes.net>
    Subject: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
    that------ Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair Jack that is a very nice video. My wife and I both watched and enjoyed it. That is one beautiful and large lake. Also thanks again for bringing your building book to Brodhead. I enjoyed looking at it. Jim On Sep 7, 2009, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote: If you watch closely right at the end of the video, you can see a nice buck run behind the Pietenpol and run across the runway. He was running alongside for a while as I landed. I'm going to have to set up a treestand and take my bow up there - every day we see deer on the runway and it's just a matter of time before somebody hits one. Jack -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:31 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y


    Message 35


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    Time: 09:03:50 PM PST US
    From: Owen Davies <owen5819@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
    maybe ? Robert Ray wrote: > BIRCH wedges not okume, it you look at the Grega plan > it is specific that the sides be 3/32 mahogany and the inside > gussets be BIRCH. 1/8. Note that it's the gussets Grega wanted to be birch, not the wedges. The wedges are usually made from the same material as your frame truss members--spruce, Doug fir, or whatever. And FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about Grega's requirements. With all due respect for him and his work, he took a plane that's built like a tank and turned it into the shipping crate the tank came in. Owen


    Message 36


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    Time: 09:27:48 PM PST US
    From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
    Subject: Gary Boothe's progress
    Mike, "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport..." Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to finish before me! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the day that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step of progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport that has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you gents are cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the Pietenpol torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the up and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the living crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der Pietenpol Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof. Mike C. Cleveland, OH


    Message 37


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    Time: 11:34:53 PM PST US
    From: <catdesigns@att.net>
    Subject: Re: Gary Boothe's progress
    Gary So nice to hear you finally have the butt ribs and the fittings done. However, I'm sorry to say, my center section is almost finished and ALL my ribs are built. Wing construction will start this week. I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress > > Mike, > > "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually > BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that > little podunk airport..." > > Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to > finish before me! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (15 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, > Michael > D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress > > Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> > > > Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being > complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are > ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the > day > that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge > the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step > of > progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday > I > too > can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and > LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport > that > has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new > Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you > gents are > cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the > Pietenpol > torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low > and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the > up > and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the > living > crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the > "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der > Pietenpol > Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof. > > Mike C. > > Cleveland, OH > > >




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