Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:30 AM - Precolored dacron (outofthebox50@yahoo.com)
2. 07:22 AM - Re: Precolored dacron (Doug Dever)
3. 08:22 AM - Re: Precolored dacron (Ed G.)
4. 09:26 AM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Ken Chambers)
5. 09:29 AM - Re: Precolored dacron (Doug Dever)
6. 09:51 AM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Matt Redmond)
7. 10:02 AM - Re: Wood List (Billy McCaskill)
8. 11:28 AM - Re: Gussets vs. Wedges (Jack Phillips)
9. 11:42 AM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (Jim Markle)
10. 11:49 AM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Jack Phillips)
11. 12:14 PM - Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, etc. (Jack Phillips)
12. 12:24 PM - Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, etc. (Ryan Mueller)
13. 12:43 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Gary Boothe)
14. 12:54 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Jack Phillips)
15. 02:54 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Dick N.)
16. 03:34 PM - great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
17. 03:43 PM - Gary Boothe's progress (Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation])
18. 04:05 PM - Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ (Jack Phillips)
19. 04:13 PM - Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- (Pieti Lowell)
20. 04:18 PM - Jack's video (Jerry Dotson)
21. 04:23 PM - Re: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- (Jack Phillips)
22. 04:41 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Jim Markle)
23. 04:42 PM - Pegasus Auto Racing catalog (helspersew@aol.com)
24. 05:21 PM - another great day of Piet flying (Oscar Zuniga)
25. 05:42 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (H RULE)
26. 06:13 PM - Jacks video (AMsafetyC@aol.com)
27. 06:52 PM - Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that----- (K5YAC)
28. 06:57 PM - Re: another great day of Piet flying (K5YAC)
29. 07:04 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Robert Ray)
30. 07:10 PM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (tkreiner)
31. 07:19 PM - Re: Wood Source in Texas? (tkreiner)
32. 07:55 PM - Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (tkreiner)
33. 08:46 PM - Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 (Ryan Mueller)
34. 08:46 PM - Re: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ (Jim)
35. 09:03 PM - Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint maybe ? (Owen Davies)
36. 09:27 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Gary Boothe)
37. 11:34 PM - Re: Gary Boothe's progress ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't recall
any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind, it misses the desired
look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys concerned about
weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint, and precolored fabric
would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of paint for 60lbs of
complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought, paint the thing and
leave the nag at home ;-)
Anyways, just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
Jeremy Bramall
Dallas, TX
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
Message 2
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| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a
s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp
lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off
and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb
s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal
almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive
urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we
ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n
ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr
ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d
one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a
dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp
ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be
about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi
ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit
h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine.
Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30%
for solvent evaporation. 60lbs!
Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
> From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000
>
>
> Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't
recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the
desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys
concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and
precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p
aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C
paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-)
>
> Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
>
> Jeremy Bramall
> Dallas=2C TX
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
>
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>
>
>
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
This is an excelent subject Doug. I have done alot of paint work over the y
ears too on cars=2C trucks=2C boats=2C buildings etc and when I have read o
f the quantities and weights of what is descibed as needed to paint a small
fabric plane I have never quite got it!! Iv'e read in the Poly Fiber manua
l about it taking 8 gallons of Poly brush plus 11 gallons poly spray plus 1
1 gallons of Poly tone to paint a Piper Cub!!=2C this just behooves me. And
then I read about the guys that put on two or three coats of latex and the
y're done. For those guys that have done the aircraft paint route: Does it
really take 30 gallons of product to paint a Piper Cub??????? That's just h
ard for me to believe!! Hope everyone has a great Labor Day.. Ed Grentzer
From: chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a
s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp
lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off
and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb
s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal
almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive
urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we
ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n
ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr
ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d
one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a
dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp
ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be
about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi
ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit
h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine.
Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30%
for solvent evaporation. 60lbs!
Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
> From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000
>
>
> Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't
recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the
desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys
concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and
precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p
aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C
paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-)
>
> Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
>
> Jeremy Bramall
> Dallas=2C TX
>======================
&g======
>
>
>
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook. Find out more.
_________________________________________________________________
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook.
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
Hey Tim
Fine lumber is all I know of here. I've been getting my spruce from aircraft
spruce and my plywood from boulter.
I ordered a 6' piece of VG doug fir from Fine Lumber last week. For my
center section. It looks like it's going to be a little pricey but if the
quality is good it might be worth saving shipping.
Ken
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net>wrote:
> timothywillis@earthlink.net>
>
> Ken,
>
> Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX.
> Ken, do you know of such a source?
>
> (I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but
> no fir or spruce.)
>
> Thanks,
> Tim in central TX (Georgetown)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ken Chambers
> Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
>
>
> Hey Matt
>
> That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He
> moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired
> and doesn't sell wood any more.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in
> Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur
> Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
> tp://forums.matronics.com
> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> --
> Ken Chambers
> 512-796-1798
>
>
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 5
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| Subject: | Precolored dacron |
Ed=2C
Keep in mind that dope=2C either nitrate or butyrate is mostly solvent (lot
s of coats to get any kind of fill.) So=2C to use several gallons would no
t add that much weight. It would take several gallons to fill the weave.
If you are only concerned about protecting the fabric from UV damage (dacro
n's enemey) then all you really need after a couple coats of nitrate is th
e aluminum coat. This brings me to another subject. I read of some people
using black for a UV barrier. I question how effective this is. The reaso
n aluminum is used is it reflects all light. Black is the absence of color
meaning that all light rays are absorbed. White is the presnece of all co
lors meaning that all light is reflected.
If you want a lesson in this punch test a fabric airplane on the white and
then on the color. If the color is dark (red green blue) and the fabric ha
s been on for 10-20yrs the color will puch at half the strength of the whit
e.
In filling the weave of fabric=2C all you need is to fill the valleys. W
hen we built up fabric planes we sanded between coats(once you get enough o
n to protect the threads). The way to do this is to spray on a complete=2C
but thin coat of primer called a guard coat. You sand until you only have
primer left in the valleys. This is a simplification=2C but you get the i
dea.
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
From: flyboy_120@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
This is an excelent subject Doug. I have done alot of paint work over the y
ears too on cars=2C trucks=2C boats=2C buildings etc and when I have read o
f the quantities and weights of what is descibed as needed to paint a small
fabric plane I have never quite got it!! Iv'e read in the Poly Fiber manua
l about it taking 8 gallons of Poly brush plus 11 gallons poly spray plus 1
1 gallons of Poly tone to paint a Piper Cub!!=2C this just behooves me. And
then I read about the guys that put on two or three coats of latex and the
y're done. For those guys that have done the aircraft paint route: Does it
really take 30 gallons of product to paint a Piper Cub??????? That's just h
ard for me to believe!! Hope everyone has a great Labor Day.. Ed Grentzer
From: chiefpepperhead@hotmail.com
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
I've been reading all the posts about how much weight paint adds. I feel a
s though I've got to add my .02. My dad and I have recovered several airp
lanes. He was in the autobody business for 40yrs and I have been in it off
and on for 30. If you paint an airplane as small as the Piet and add 60lb
s something is wrong! allowing for solvent evaporation 60lbs would equal
almost 9 gallons of paint! Every airplane we recovered we used automotive
urethane over a build-up of high solids butyrate dope. The most weight we
ever added was26lbs and this was on a show winning Tri-pacer. (you could n
ot see the weave in the fabric.) With the newer hi-build high solids butyr
ate like Randofill the weight would even be less. all building should be d
one with butyrate. It is very light. Followed by a primer sealer to get a
dheasion to the laquer based butyrate followed by color. An entire Pietenp
ol should take no more than 1.5gal of color (before thinning) that would be
about 12lbs of paint. BTW we got FAA field approval for our process Addi
ng a flex agent to the final coat. The coatings held up for many years wit
h no loss of gloss and no cracking This is the process I will use on mine.
Maybe I don't know squat=2C but weigh a gallon of paint and subtract 30%
for solvent evaporation. 60lbs!
Just my .02 and it may not even be worth that
Doug Dever
In beautiful Stow Ohio
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Precolored dacron
> From: outofthebox50@yahoo.com
> Date: Mon=2C 7 Sep 2009 13:28:21 +0000
>
>
> Hello all. I've been reading the list for a couple of years now and don't
recall any conversations about colored dacron. In my mind=2C it misses the
desired look for a Piet. My thoughts are directed towards the recent guys
concerned about weight and hp. I was looking at the weight of paint=2C and
precolored fabric would certainly add lightness. You could trade 60lbs of p
aint for 60lbs of complaining spouse in the front pit. On second thought=2C
paint the thing and leave the nag at home =3B-)
>
> Anyways=2C just interested in your thoughts. Blast away!
>
> Jeremy Bramall
> Dallas=2C TX
>======================
&g======
>
>
>
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook. Find out more.
st">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on
Facebook. Find out more.
_________________________________________________________________
With Windows Live=2C you can organize=2C edit=2C and share your photos.
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
Ken,
I think that was it. Sorry to hear he's not selling wood anymore... But
semi-retired sounds nice!
Matt
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Ken Chambers <ken.riffic@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hey Matt
>
> That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He
> moved to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired
> and doesn't sell wood any more.
>
> Ken
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in
>> Texas east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur
>> Springs, IIRC. Does anyone know where that could be?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Matt
>>
>> *
>>
>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
>> tp://forums.matronics.com
>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>> *
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ken Chambers
> 512-796-1798
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
Message 7
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If I'm not mistaken, this looks just like the wood list that came with the Grega
GN-1 plans package. I have those plans in additon to my Piet plans, and I think
I remember seeing this list in the GN-1 builder's notes.
Billy McCaskill
Urbana, IL
Baton Rouge, LA
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261891#261891
Message 8
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| Subject: | Gussets vs. Wedges |
Build it per MIL-T-FD4, A change
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ryan Mueller
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 1:02 PM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gussets vs. Wedges
Well, a Pietenpol wing rib built with gussets only has thousands upon
thousands of hours flown by hundreds and hundreds of aircraft (if not more)
over 80 years. I suppose you could hold out for a larger sample size.....or
just build it to the plans.
Have a good day!
Ryan
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Folks,
I've got EAA's wood aircraft construction book and some other resources and
I'm getting contradictory information regarding plywood gussets and wedges.
In one place I read that wedges are stronger and in another, that gussets
are stronger.
We (a group of four) are going to CNC machine many of our wood parts
(particularly rib components). We can do either gussets as the plans depict
or cut wedges - either will be quite easy.
My question is: assuming the amount of work involved is the same, is there
an advantage to using one over the other?
Thanks!
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
There's also a place over by Love Field, Architectural Carpentry Materials on Owens
St. They have lots of doug fir and will let you sort through it. If that's
what you want. They probably have some western cedar and who knows what else.
I spent a lot of time digging through their lumber and found a lot of good, in
spec doug fir. Wouldn't do it that way again. I would just use spruce and be
done with it.
For stuff like maple and mahogany, Hardwood Lumber of Dallas on Goodnight is really
good. Huge selection.
Won't give you the nice dose of aviation I always got from Russ but I guess these
will do... :-)
jm
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers
Sent: Sep 7, 2009 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
Hey Tim
Fine lumber is all I know of here. I've been getting my spruce from aircraft spruce
and my plywood from boulter.
I ordered a 6' piece of VG doug fir from Fine Lumber last week. For my center section.
It looks like it's going to be a little pricey but if the quality is good
it might be worth saving shipping.
Ken
On Sun, Sep 6, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Tim Willis <timothywillis@earthlink.net> wrote:
Ken,
Drat! Just when I thought I had found a good A/C wood source here in TX. Ken,
do you know of such a source?
(I know Fine Lumber in Austin has some marine ply in some dimensions, but no fir
or spruce.)
Thanks,
Tim in central TX (Georgetown)
-----Original Message-----
From: Ken Chambers
Sent: Sep 6, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Wood Source in Texas?
Hey Matt
That might have been Alpha Aviation in Caddo Mills. My Dad's business. He moved
to Major's Field in Greenville about ten years ago. He's semi-retired and doesn't
sell wood any more.
Ken
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 5:25 PM, Matt Redmond <mdredmond@gmail.com> wrote:
Many (15ish) years ago there was a place to buy aviation-grade spruce in Texas
east of Dallas, it was somewhere between Greenville and Sulphur Springs, IIRC.
Does anyone know where that could be?
Thanks,
Matt
" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
tp://forums.matronics.com
_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
--
Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
==========
st" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List
==========
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le, List Admin.
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Ken Chambers
512-796-1798
Message 10
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| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Watch it, now...
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
RV-4 N18LR
RV-10 in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, |
etc.
Dan,
How are you managing to build and paint an airplane in such a dinky little
shop?
_____
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
helspersew@aol.com
Sent: Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:51 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs,
puking, etc.
Gentlemen,
While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there
ARE some of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively, and
making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of my
one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully castored
so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may have to add
a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it looks like
it will function as desired.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs, puking, |
etc.
Probably has to push everything out on to the ramp just to be able to move
around at all....
do not archive
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 1:56 PM, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>wrote:
> Dan,
>
>
> How are you managing to build and paint an airplane in such a dinky little
> shop?
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:
> owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *
> helspersew@aol.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, September 05, 2009 8:51 PM
> *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Wedgies, wedges, gussets, elephants on ribs,
> puking, etc.
>
>
> Gentlemen,
>
>
> While all you clowns are discussing completely irrevelant subjects, there
> ARE *some* of us that are continuing to work, using our time effectively,
> and making some real progress on our projects. Attached are some photos of
> my one-piece wing "inserted" into my wing painting stand. It is fully
> castored so I can handle this huge panel without any help. I think I may
> have to add a few extra legs somewhere to stiffen it up a bit, but so far it
> looks like it will function as desired.
>
>
> Dan Helsper
>
> Poplar Grove, IL.
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
forever...
This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal
attachment fittings done!
...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Watch it, now...
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
RV-4 N18LR
RV-10 in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
Message 14
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| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain Lake,
Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
over the lake. Check it out at:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It is
39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low
and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though.
Jack Phillips
NX899JP
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
forever...
This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal
attachment fittings done!
...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
Phillips
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Watch it, now...
Jack Phillips
Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
RV-4 N18LR
RV-10 in progress
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
directions.
BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(14 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
they still do that ? I digress.
Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
living guts out. Let's get onto something
slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
menopause so don't look at me crossways or
sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
frying pan your way.
Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
that little side-to-side tray that goes across
the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
Mike C.
Message 15
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|
| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Very nice video, Jack. Greg Cardinal and I both flew our Piet's to a
country fly in yesterday. The morning air was the best I've had all summer.
It was an 80 mi. run for me and I enjoyed every mile. It was a small
private airport and the owner, Doug Ward, just bought a Piet project and had
it on the flight line. I wish that I had remembered the video camera.
I have been out flying quite a bit lately and have rarely cracked above 700'
agl.
Dick N.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Phillips" <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
paint maybe ?
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain
> Lake,
> Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
> has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
> over the lake. Check it out at:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
> minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
>
> BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It
> is
> 39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low
> and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though.
>
> Jack Phillips
> NX899JP
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Boothe
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint maybe ?
>
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
> forever...
>
> This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the
> metal
> attachment fittings done!
>
> ...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (15 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
> Phillips
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint maybe ?
>
> <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
> Watch it, now...
>
> Jack Phillips
> Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
> RV-4 N18LR
> RV-10 in progress
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary
> Boothe
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint maybe ?
>
>
> You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
>
> Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
> groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
> himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in
> countless
> directions.
>
> BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
> worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (14 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
> Michael
> D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
> paint
> maybe ?
>
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder
> if
> they still do that ? I digress.
>
> Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
> living guts out. Let's get onto something
> slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
>
> Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
> menopause so don't look at me crossways or
> sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
> even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
> frying pan your way.
>
> Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
> compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
> are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
> plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
> white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
> right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
> and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
>
> If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed
> up
> that little side-to-side tray that goes across
> the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
> support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
> of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing that------ |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y
Message 17
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| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being complete3d
for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the day that
your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step of progress
like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday I too
can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY
airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport that
has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new Pietenpols.
I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you gents are
cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the Pietenpol torch
be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the up and
coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the living
crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the "foolish
shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der Pietenpol
Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
Mike C.
Cleveland, OH
Message 18
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| Subject: | great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that------
If you watch closely right at the end of the video, you can see a nice buck
run behind the Pietenpol and run across the runway. He was running
alongside for a while as I landed. I'm going to have to set up a treestand
and take my bow up there - every day we see deer on the runway and it's just
a matter of time before somebody hits one.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
that------
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that-----
Jack, you have very little elevator angle, and a great shadow shot.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261938#261938
Message 20
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|
Jack what a beautiful video. I feel almost like I was along for the ride! I was
talking about your airplane. The scenery was pretty too.
--------
Jerry Dotson
59 Daniel Johnson Rd
Baker, FL 32531
Started building NX510JD July, 2009
Ribs all done
using Lycoming O-235
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261939#261939
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that-----
I've got about a degree of incidence in the horizontal stabilizer, still
have to hold a bit of down elevator - less with a passenger in the front.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pieti Lowell
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 7:13 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for
sharing that-----
<Lowellcfrank@yahoo.com>
Jack, you have very little elevator angle, and a great shadow shot.
Pieti Lowell
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261938#261938
Message 22
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| Subject: | gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Very nice video, thanks for sharing.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>Sent: Sep 7, 2009 2:50 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
maybe ?
>
>
>Just had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to Smith Mountain Lake,
>Virginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there. I took up a friend who
>has a nice video camera and he shot some good footage from the Pietenpol
>over the lake. Check it out at:
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8
>minutes looking at scenery from a Pietenpol.
>
>BTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2 hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol. It is
>39 minutes by RV-4, so there are some advantages to flying other than low
>and slow. I still prefer the Pietenpol, though.
>
>Jack Phillips
>NX899JP
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
>Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
>paint maybe ?
>
>
>Not that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just sayin'....low & slow,
>forever...
>
>This weekend I got both butt ribs built for the center section and the metal
>attachment fittings done!
>
>...not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, Ca.
>Pietenpol
>WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>(15 ribs down.)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack
>Phillips
>Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 11:46 AM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
>paint maybe ?
>
><pietflyr@bellsouth.net>
>
>Watch it, now...
>
>Jack Phillips
>Pietenpol Air Camper NX899JP
>RV-4 N18LR
>RV-10 in progress
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe
>Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:15 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex
>paint maybe ?
>
>
>You see? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:
>
>Grown men, joining in a gang-like, group pile-on of name calling and
>groundless accustations of some faceless soul, incapable of defending
>himself. Instead, we have to twist and tear a simple wood joint in countless
>directions.
>
>BTW - Mike, I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm
>worried. Your not gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?
>
>Gary Boothe
>Cool, Ca.
>Pietenpol
>WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
>Tail done, Fuselage on gear
>(14 ribs down.)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
>D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
>Sent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM
>To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint
>maybe ?
>
>Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
>Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder if
>they still do that ? I digress.
>
>Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
>living guts out. Let's get onto something
>slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
>
>Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
>menopause so don't look at me crossways or
>sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
>even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
>frying pan your way.
>
>Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
>compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
>are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
>plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
>white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
>right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
>and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
>
>If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
>that little side-to-side tray that goes across
>the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
>support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
>of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
>
>Mike C.
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | Pegasus Auto Racing catalog |
Hi Guys,
This place has a lot of items that are applicable to airplane homebuilding. Full line of AN hardware and fittings, light weight seat belts and harnesses, light weight brake discs and calipers?etc. www.PegasusAutoRacing.com. Get a catalog and check it out. I wish I had this a few years ago.
Dan Helsper
Poplar Grove, IL.
Message 24
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| Subject: | another great day of Piet flying |
Nothing earth-shattering, just another beautiful day
of Piet flying. I put 2.8 hours on the new engine,
which is now back into standard service after flying
off the required 5 hours of test time, and it is
running great. Flew down to Zapata with a fuel stop
at Cotulla about 72 miles into the trip. I had forgotten
just how silky-smooth the air can be early in the
morning. Absolutely without a ripple or bump. It
was the first time in a very long time when I've been
able to tell the tiny nuances of rig and trim on the
airplane because most of my flying is done in the
afternoons and it's bumpy enough to mask any subtle
differences in those conditions.
Flying in the smooth morning air, trimmed out in cruise,
I could tell that the airplane wants to yaw to the left,
so I'll need to tweak the rudder trim tab a bit. What
a delightful airplane, tooling along at about 70-72
MPH and 1700', watching the towns and country roads
start to come alive with activity on this Labor Day
morning. Watched an aerial applicator make his turn
directly in front of me and then finish off a circular
field off to my left, then land to fill his hopper
again.
41CC is sporting new wrinkle-finish black paint on the
face of the whiskey compass, so it flew extra nice
today ;o) Same old compass, new face, better performance ;o)
Go finish your airplanes this winter, folks, so you can
go fly next spring. You won't regret it. Pick an
airfoil, decide whether you want gussets or wedges, but
finish and fly. Some mornings in the airplane are like
a dream come true.
Oscar Zuniga
Air Camper NX41CC
San Antonio, TX
mailto: taildrags@hotmail.com
website at http://www.flysquirrel.net
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Three things I noticed about that clip;number one the grin on the pilot was
just the same as supermans in the first movie;number two the scenery was f
antastic and it was a good clean clear take and number three did ya notice
the deer run behind them as they taxied back.I'll bet some folks are going
to take another look at that clip now.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A______________________
__________=0AFrom: Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0ATo: pietenpol-l
ist@matronics.com=0ASent: Monday, September 7, 2009 3:50:35 PM=0ASubject: R
E: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint mayb
llsouth.net>=0A=0AJust had a nice weekend of flying - flew the RV-4 up to S
mith Mountain Lake,=0AVirginia, then did some Pietenpol flying up there.-
I took up a friend who=0Ahas a nice video camera and he shot some good foo
tage from the Pietenpol=0Aover the lake.- Check it out at:=0Ahttp://www.y
outube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y, if you don't mind wasting 8=0Aminutes loo
king at scenery from a Pietenpol.=0A=0ABTW, Smith Mountain Lake is nearlt 2
hours from Raleigh by Pietenpol.- It is=0A39 minutes by RV-4, so there a
re some advantages to flying other than low=0Aand slow.- I still prefer t
he Pietenpol, though.=0A=0AJack Phillips=0ANX899JP=0A=0A=0A-----Original Me
ssage-----=0AFrom: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owne
r-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe=0ASent: Mon
day, September 07, 2009 3:42 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubjec
t: RE: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apain
5@comcast.net>=0A=0ANot that there's anything wrong with RV's! I'm just say
in'....low & slow,=0Aforever...=0A=0AThis weekend I got both butt ribs buil
t for the center section and the metal=0Aattachment fittings done!=0A=0A...
not as impressive as Dan's Stargate, but it'll do...=0A=0AGary Boothe=0ACoo
l, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuselage o
n gear=0A(15 ribs down.)=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-piet
enpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matro
nics.com] On Behalf Of Jack=0APhillips=0ASent: Monday, September 07, 2009 1
1:46 AM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: g
ussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apaint maybe ?=0A=0A--> Piete
npol-List message posted by: "Jack Phillips"=0A<pietflyr@bellsouth.net>=0A
=0AWatch it, now...=0A=0AJack Phillips=0APietenpol Air Camper NX899JP=0ARV-
4 N18LR=0ARV-10 in progress=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owner-p
ietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@ma
tronics.com] On Behalf Of Gary Boothe=0ASent: Friday, September 04, 2009 9:
15 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Pietenpol-List: gus
sets and wedgies---can we talk about latex=0Apaint maybe ?=0A=0A--> Pietenp
ol-List message posted by: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>=0A=0AYou se
e? This is why Markle-bashing was so useful:=0A=0AGrown men, joining in a g
ang-like, group pile-on of name calling and=0Agroundless accustations of so
me faceless soul, incapable of defending=0Ahimself. Instead, we have to twi
st and tear a simple wood joint in countless=0Adirections.=0A=0ABTW - Mike,
I have noticed that your mind is wandering....a lot. I'm=0Aworried. Your n
ot gonna' do something stupid, like build an RV, are you?=0A=0AGary Boothe
=0ACool, Ca.=0APietenpol=0AWW Corvair Conversion, mounted=0ATail done, Fuse
lage on gear=0A(14 ribs down.)=0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: owne
r-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com=0A[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server
@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael=0AD. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Co
rporation]=0ASent: Friday, September 04, 2009 5:57 PM=0ATo: pietenpol-list@
matronics.com=0ASubject: Pietenpol-List: gussets and wedgies---can we talk
, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC=0AAerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.
gov>=0A=0A=0A=0ARemember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in schoo
l ?- I wonder if=0Athey still do that ?- - I digress.=0A=0AHey, can w
e drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my=0Aliving gu
ts out.- Let's get onto something=0Aslightly less nauseating like using h
ouse paint or something okay ?=0A=0ASorry-- I had too much coffee after din
ner tonight and am going thru male=0Amenopause so don't look at me crossway
s or=0Asideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women
don't=0Aeven own one of those anymore do they ?) or=0Afrying pan your way.
=0A=0AMike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
=0Acompromise anything in your Piet since I know you=0Aare leaning toward u
sing a Continental.- You retain the big slabs of=0Aplywood by the upper m
otor mounts, you retain the=0Awhite ash-doweled-in crossmember up- front
that goes side-to-side left to=0Aright on the fuselage front right at the f
irewall=0Aand you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument pane
l.=0A=0AIf you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I b
eefed up=0Athat little side-to-side tray that goes across=0Athe top of the
fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to=0Asupport the weigh
t of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons=0Aof fuel.- - Wish I was at wor
k-- I'd attach the sketch.=0A=0AMike C.=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A
==
Message 26
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Jack,
is that all you plan to do the rest of your life, cash for rides?
Jack nice job on the video an inspiration to all us builders hoping we can
do the same in our own Piets.
Thanks for sharing
John
Safe in the morning!
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that-----
Awesome video Jack... beautiful out there.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261971#261971
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: another great day of Piet flying |
I can't wait! Jack's video and now your vivid description. I want to fly too!
I did what I could... several hours of work this weekend.
--------
Mark - working on wings
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261972#261972
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
The wood working book I think it's a Tony Bingalis (spelling)
any how I got the book from the EAA is very specific, it
says a wedge in a 1'' x 1'' that has one inch side increased
the glued areas from one to three counting the butt end of the member,
a gusset thats 3 inches long and 3 inches high increases
it to six meaning that there is six times the surface area
glued. I think in the area of the wing strut and landing gear
I'll have wedges 180 degrees and gussets.
BIRCH wedges not okume, it you look at the Grega plan
it is specific that the sides be 3/32 mahogany and the inside
gussets be BIRCH. 1/8.
Russell
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Cuy, Michael D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace
Corporation] <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov> wrote:
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> Remember when kids used to give other kids wedgies in school ? I wonder
> if they still do that ? I digress.
>
> Hey, can we drop the wedges and gusset topic because I'm about to puke my
> living guts out. Let's get onto something
> slightly less nauseating like using house paint or something okay ?
>
> Sorry-- I had too much coffee after dinner tonight and am going thru male
> menopause so don't look at me crossways or
> sideways or you may get a rolling pin (oh that's right....most women don't
> even own one of those anymore do they ?) or
> frying pan your way.
>
> Mike Perez-- you can omit that Model A Ford engine tray area and not
> compromise anything in your Piet since I know you
> are leaning toward using a Continental. You retain the big slabs of
> plywood by the upper motor mounts, you retain the
> white ash-doweled-in crossmember up front that goes side-to-side left to
> right on the fuselage front right at the firewall
> and you retain that "shelf" in front of the front instrument panel.
>
> If you'll recall my sketches of the fuel tank setup in the nose I beefed up
> that little side-to-side tray that goes across
> the top of the fuselage just in front of the front instrument panel to
> support the weight of my fuel tank straps and 17 gallons
> of fuel. Wish I was at work-- I'd attach the sketch.
>
> Mike C.
>
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
Matt, Tim in TX, et al,
Clarke's Hardwoods, in Houston, is due to receive (if they have not already), a
new shipment of VG (vertical grain) Sitka Spruce. They already have a nice selection
of Doug Fir VG, as well. Most of the fir is rough, and will need to
be planed.
Along with the above mentioned, they stock Finnish birch plywood in an AB/B rating
- identical to AS&S's, but at somewhat higher price. Only sold in 4x4 sheets.
They also have Okume, and Baltic Birch ply in 4X8 sheets.
I spent about 2 hours looking over their stock, and, as a local source to me in
Spring, TX, I will probably purchase from them as I can pick the stuff I want.
It is pricier, but because they are local, I can get what I need when I want
it, without shipping or waiting.
Here's their link:
http://www.clarkshardwoodlumberco.com/index.php
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261979#261979
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Wood Source in Texas? |
Matt, Tim in TX, et al,
Forgot to mention, the Okume and Birch Ply carried by Clarke's Hardwoods, are Marine
Grade, with waterproof, boilproof adhesives.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261985#261985
Message 32
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| Subject: | Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
Since the topics of Gussets, wedges, etcs. have been bouncing around for a while,
I thought it might be interesting to see how ribs were designed in the '30's
and '40's. My source for the information presented below is from Chapter 1
(Aircraft Woodwork), page 7, of Brimm & Boggess' 1940 publication "Aircraft Maintenance."
This chapter illustrates - both verbally and with lots of illustrations - how ribs
were originally made. According to the authors, the centerlines of the various
truss elements in a rib were to intersect at a common point; that point
being the centerline of the cap strip. That said, they give no explanation, but
it's almost intuitive that the overall joint will be stronger, due to a significantly
larger glue joint.
Since I've designed - along with Harry Riblett himself - a Piet rib using the GA30-613.5
airfoil, I've incorporated this design technique in the design. The
entire rib, leading edge items, etc., have been modeled using SolidWorks. Although
FEA analysis could be used to determine the strength, and/or load factor
of the wing, I don't believe that's necessary, as this wing, using the original
Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only change I've made is the use of
a lower drag, lower pitching moment shape. (OK, OK, I know some of you will
flame me... I'm really NOT a heretic, just looking for a tiny improvement...
)
In the accompanying jpeg, you'll see how the centerlines of all elements intersect.
If you're able to find a copy, this book show many valuable techniques, just as
Sportplane Construction Techniques does. I've seen them on eBay for around
$30.
TK
--------
Tom Kreiner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=261989#261989
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/rib_layout_1_184.jpg
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Rib Truss design, ala 1940 |
While it may be a warm fuzzy to have the centerlines of all joints perfectly
intersect, it has been proven that that is not really a huge issue. As long
as the members arrive at the same location and are properly secured by
gussets there will be no problem.
Just out of curiosity, with your rib redesign are you fixing a perceived
deficiency that you have experienced while flying a Pietenpol, or are you
fixing a theoretical deficiency based on secondhand anecdotal evidence?
Ryan
On Mon, Sep 7, 2009 at 9:54 PM, tkreiner <tkreiner@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Since the topics of Gussets, wedges, etcs. have been bouncing around for a
> while, I thought it might be interesting to see how ribs were designed in
> the '30's and '40's. My source for the information presented below is from
> Chapter 1 (Aircraft Woodwork), page 7, of Brimm & Boggess' 1940 publication
> "Aircraft Maintenance."
>
> This chapter illustrates - both verbally and with lots of illustrations -
> how ribs were originally made. According to the authors, the centerlines of
> the various truss elements in a rib were to intersect at a common point;
> that point being the centerline of the cap strip. That said, they give no
> explanation, but it's almost intuitive that the overall joint will be
> stronger, due to a significantly larger glue joint.
>
> Since I've designed - along with Harry Riblett himself - a Piet rib using
> the GA30-613.5 airfoil, I've incorporated this design technique in the
> design. The entire rib, leading edge items, etc., have been modeled using
> SolidWorks. Although FEA analysis could be used to determine the strength,
> and/or load factor of the wing, I don't believe that's necessary, as this
> wing, using the original Piet airfoil, has flown 80+ years. The only change
> I've made is the use of a lower drag, lower pitching moment shape. (OK, OK,
> I know some of you will flame me... I'm really NOT a heretic, just looking
> for a tiny improvement... )
>
> In the accompanying jpeg, you'll see how the centerlines of all elements
> intersect.
>
> If you're able to find a copy, this book show many valuable techniques,
> just as Sportplane Construction Techniques does. I've seen them on eBay
> for around $30.
>
> TK
>
> --------
> Tom Kreiner
>
>
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing |
that------
Jim Boyer
Santa Rosa, CA
Pietenpol builder with Corvair
Jack that is a very nice video. My wife and I both watched and enjoyed it. That
is one beautiful and large lake.
Also thanks again for bringing your building book to Brodhead. I enjoyed looking
at it.
Jim
On Sep 7, 2009, Jack Phillips <pietflyr@bellsouth.net> wrote:
If you watch closely right at the end of the video, you can see a nice buck
run behind the Pietenpol and run across the runway. He was running
alongside for a while as I landed. I'm going to have to set up a treestand
and take my bow up there - every day we see deer on the runway and it's just
a matter of time before somebody hits one.
Jack
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 6:31 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: great video Jack Phillips--- thank you for sharing
that------
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5HZGq0YZ2Y
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: gussets and wedgies---can we talk about latex paint |
maybe ?
Robert Ray wrote:
> BIRCH wedges not okume, it you look at the Grega plan
> it is specific that the sides be 3/32 mahogany and the inside
> gussets be BIRCH. 1/8.
Note that it's the gussets Grega wanted to be birch, not the wedges. The
wedges are usually made from the same material as your frame truss
members--spruce, Doug fir, or whatever.
And FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about Grega's requirements. With all
due respect for him and his work, he took a plane that's built like a
tank and turned it into the shipping crate the tank came in.
Owen
Message 36
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| Subject: | Gary Boothe's progress |
Mike,
"yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually
BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that
little podunk airport..."
Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to
finish before me!
Gary Boothe
Cool, Ca.
Pietenpol
WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
Tail done, Fuselage on gear
(15 ribs down.)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, Michael
D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM
Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being
complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the day
that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step of
progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday I
too
can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and
LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport
that
has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new
Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you
gents are
cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the Pietenpol
torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the up
and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the
living
crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the
"foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der
Pietenpol
Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
Mike C.
Cleveland, OH
Message 37
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| Subject: | Re: Gary Boothe's progress |
Gary
So nice to hear you finally have the butt ribs and the fittings done.
However, I'm sorry to say, my center section is almost finished and ALL my
ribs are built. Wing construction will start this week. I thought I felt
you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog.
Chris
Sacramento, CA
WestCoastPiet.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Boothe" <gboothe5@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Mike,
>
> "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually
> BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that
> little podunk airport..."
>
> Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to
> finish before me!
>
> Gary Boothe
> Cool, Ca.
> Pietenpol
> WW Corvair Conversion, mounted
> Tail done, Fuselage on gear
> (15 ribs down.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy,
> Michael
> D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation]
> Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM
> To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress
>
> Aerospace Corporation]" <michael.d.cuy@nasa.gov>
>
>
> Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being
> complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are
> ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the
> day
> that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge
> the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step
> of
> progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday
> I
> too
> can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and
> LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport
> that
> has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new
> Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you
> gents are
> cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the
> Pietenpol
> torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low
> and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the
> up
> and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the
> living
> crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the
> "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der
> Pietenpol
> Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof.
>
> Mike C.
>
> Cleveland, OH
>
>
>
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