---------------------------------------------------------- Pietenpol-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/09/09: 24 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:08 AM - Re: building in cramped workshops (jimd) 2. 04:40 AM - Re: Final version- one-piece-wing stand (helspersew@aol.com) 3. 06:55 AM - Paint in place of varnish (Michael Perez) 4. 07:43 AM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Doug Dever) 5. 07:43 AM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Ben Charvet) 6. 09:20 AM - Re: Traveling to the West Coast (Mark Roberts) 7. 11:38 AM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Ryan Mueller) 8. 12:12 PM - Re: Fuselage building for Continental engine (Ben Charvet) 9. 12:47 PM - Re: MY PANEL (899PM) 10. 12:52 PM - Any Piets in the Rapid City SD area? (Jim Markle) 11. 01:11 PM - Re: MY PANEL (899PM) 12. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Jim) 13. 02:12 PM - Re: MY PANEL (Jim) 14. 02:12 PM - Re: Re: MY PANEL (Wayne Bressler) 15. 02:13 PM - Re: New Directors for EAA (Barry Davis) 16. 02:48 PM - Re: MY PANEL (899PM) 17. 03:01 PM - Re: Re: Gary Boothe's progress (Jim) 18. 03:17 PM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Bill Church) 19. 05:15 PM - Re: Re: MY PANEL (Gary Boothe) 20. 06:37 PM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Richard Schreiber) 21. 09:38 PM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Robert Ray) 22. 10:05 PM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Robert Ray) 23. 10:20 PM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Matt Redmond) 24. 11:03 PM - Re: Paint in place of varnish (Clif Dawson) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:08:16 AM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: building in cramped workshops From: "jimd" Oscar, You made a few good points. When I was getting my biplane piet project, I wanted to build it in the EAA hangar's near me, as they have lots of room and tools and so forth, and they discouraged me... and were right. I have been working in my house, and the most productive work has been in my living room, dragging the wings in and having them in front of the TV sort of forces you to notice and lets you hang out with your family while still working on your project and enjoying it. If I could, I would have a large open house that was a mix of shop and house, and would draw my family in to building things, repairing things and enjoying accomplishing something with their hands. My garage was totally full before I took on an airplane, so now my basement is cramped, the garage is, and the overflow is in a shed I had to get and build. Like everyone else I would love to have a big spacious place to build, but the farther it is from your living room, the tougher it is to get their. I will try to update my project pics soon, have my lower wings done now, and about ready to start on the top wings. (Did bottom first because it can fly with only the top, and that would make it much less likely I would ever have finished the bottom ones, and the bottom ones needed more work.) Jim Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262232#262232 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:02 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand From: helspersew@aol.com My hero is Rube Goldberg. :o) D.H. -----Original Message----- From: AMsafetyC@aol.com Sent: Tue, Sep 8, 2009 8:09 pm Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Final version- one-piece-wing stand Dan, ? Really slick, looks like we are gonna see Dan on late night TV in place of Billy Mays.? The dandy Dan wing row-tater. But wait if you act right now we will double your order you get the wing rotator, with the 2.0 hp?brigs and straton drive motor, hi strength 70 durameter hi compression wheels with an??extra wheel set just for ordering plus the?lifetime caster sets?and this handy no drip?paint applicator. No more ugly paint drips the row-tater spins them away swish bam and you're the paint job man. And we guarantee it, if you're not satisfied not completely 110% send it back we'll pay the freight for a full refund and keep the no drip paint applicator as our free gift.just for trying the Dandy Dan Wing Row-Tater. ? How can we make this incredible offer, we are so completely convinced that you'll fall in love with the Dandy Dan wing row-tater WE GUARNTEE IT. Spin,Swish and?Bam you're the wing painting man? ? The proceeding was a paid commercial message ? ? So act right now our operators are standing by but you must order within the next 30 minutes to take advantage of our risk free offer while supplies last batteries not included.??a sales final subject to destination charger dealer prep, instillation and setup?excise charge?title prep and pro rata contract except where prohibited by law. ? Do not archive this once in a life time offer. ? John ? In a message dated 9/8/2009 8:14:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, helspersew@aol.com writes: Here are some pics of the final version of my one-piece-wing stand, after I added a few stiffeners. Now it is sufficiently braced and I am confident it will do the job without failure. I will send?additional detailed photos to Chris Tracy's?Westcoastpiet.com site. ? Dan Helsper Poplar Grove, IL. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:55:14 AM PST US From: Michael Perez Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of pai nted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not re adily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine w ith just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may s ee a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues wi th painting my wood structures instead of varnish? - Thanks again. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:02 AM PST US From: Doug Dever Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish Mike=2C You could use a good urethane. System Three marine comes to mind. But=2C once painted it would be very difficult if not impossible to inspect the co ndition of the wood. Doug Dever In beautiful Stow Ohio From: speedbrake@sbcglobal.net Subject: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of pai nted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not re adily exposed to the elements=2C (wings=2C main fuselage=2C etc.) would be fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any iss ues with painting my wood structures instead of varnish? Thanks again. _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live: Make it easier for your friends to see what you=92re up to on Facebook. http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL :ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_facebook:082009 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:02 AM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish Well, as I remember varnishing the wing was a very time consuming task. I always assumed varnish was recommended because it would be easier years down the road to detect darkening of areas where rot had started. >From a practical standpoint, by the time I was finished with two coats of varnish on my wing, I had varnish everywhere, which is easier to clean up than paint! Ben Michael Perez wrote: > Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look > of painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the > wood not readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) > would be fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit > areas as they may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood > look there.) Any issues with painting my wood structures instead of > varnish? > > Thanks again. > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:54 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Traveling to the West Coast From: Mark Roberts Yeah John! If you come up to the gathering in Lincoln, we can pour over the parts file s together and determine what still needs to be done. You'll be SO close compared to .... where ever the heck you are back there... Mark On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Gary Boothe wrote: > John, > > > Lincoln, CA is 5 hours north of Santa Maria. We are having quite a > get-together on the 19th at fellow builder, Mike Weaver=92s house. Lincol n > is about 30 minutes from Sacramento Int=92l Airport and you could fly out > there to anywhere you need to go. > > > C=92mon, say you will=85.we=92ll make you an honorary guest member of the West > Coast Pieters (name not official). > > > Gary Boothe > > Cool, Ca. > > Pietenpol > > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > > (15 ribs down=85) > ------------------------------ > > *From:* owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto: > owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] *On Behalf Of * > AMsafetyC@aol.com > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 08, 2009 12:00 PM > *To:* pietenpol-list@matronics.com > *Subject:* Pietenpol-List: Traveling to the West Coast > > > Okay sports fans. I will being arriving Ontario Ca Tuesday evening the 15 th > then on to Nipomo, CA 16,17,18. I have no idea where that is nor does it > matter except for the obvious question. > > > Any Piet projects in the Nipomo Ca area to look at or check out? From wha t > I know at the moment its about 40 minutes out from Santa Maria. that's th e > extent of my knowledge on that topic > > > Not sure about timing, but thought I would ask. and I may have access to > wheels not too certain about that or when. > > > contact off list please > > > John > > > Do not archive > > > ------------------------------ > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List">http://www.mat ronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c * > > * > =========== w.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List =========== =========== com/contribution =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:38:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish From: Ryan Mueller I would second Doug and Ben's comments. The transparency of a varnished finish makes inspection possible. Your rationale of liking the look of a painted framework.....well, I could understand that in the cockpit areas where you will see it....but you are talking about painting the structure that you cannot see.....so what does it matter what it looks like? Once it's covered you won't see it (hopefully) for years and years..... Ryan On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of > painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not > readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine > with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may > see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues > with painting my wood structures instead of varnish? > > Thanks again. > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:36 PM PST US From: Ben Charvet Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Fuselage building for Continental engine I initially left the inside plywood off and had to add it later. Its been a few years and I don't remember exactly why... That piece does tie the upper motor mounts to the front cabane mount, and this area does get a lot of holes drilled through the longerons so the extra reinforcement is a good idea. I put the ash piece where the plans call for it, because I was going to use a Corvair and it was necessary for the Pietenpol Corvair motor mount. Now it just reinforces the firewall. All of the various braces should stand tall like the longerons so they can be gusseted on both sides Ben Charvet Robert Ray wrote: > Yes I was thinking the same think? any one know since I > have located a zero time a-65 with new pistons for 5,000 > minus the mags and carb. > > On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Michael Perez > > wrote: > > I have a few questions for building the short fuselage to use a > Continental engine. > > Are the large plywood "sides" needed on the inside up front by the > top engine mount brackets if the "model A shelf" will not be > built? Can I use normal size gussets for those top engine mount > brackets and some wedges? > > The plans for the model A show the large ash cross member up front > connecting the sides at about 4.5" down from the top. Is this > heavy ash member still needed for a Continental and if so, can it > be moved up closer to the top, nearer the top engine mount > brackets? Or can a spruce piece be used up at the top same as > what is shown for the bottom? (The bottom piece is 3/4" X 3/4" > spruce...seems a little small.) > > Lastly, for now, most of the various braces are 1/2" X 1". Do I > stand these pieces up so they are 1" tall like the longerons, or > lay them flat so they are 1/2" tall? > > Thanks is advance. > > * > > " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List > ttp://forums.matronics.com > _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > * > > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:39 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL From: "899PM" The inclinometer is a reproduction from a 1919 Carl Ort catalog if I remember correctly. It came with my Sky Scout project. It is fairly complex and someone had a lot of time into building it. I have the artwork for the face. The face is aluminum, the body is a wooden assembly and the glass tubes are hand blown/bent by presumably a neon signmaker. The vertical tube has a rubber plug thru which I injected alcohol colored with red dye. It is very fussy to get just the right amount in to make it accurate and repeatable. Properly set up it is accurate(so far). -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262316#262316 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:19 PM PST US From: Jim Markle Subject: Pietenpol-List: Any Piets in the Rapid City SD area? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:20 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL From: "899PM" another pic -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262322#262322 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1244_660.jpg ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:15 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair Oh boy the challenges are winging around now! Your center section looks good Chris and thank you very much for the landing gear shock strut drawings. They really did help. Jim B. On Sep 7, 2009, catdesigns@att.net wrote: Gary So nice to hear you finally have the butt ribs and the fittings done. However, I'm sorry to say, my center section is almost finished and ALL my ribs are built. Wing construction will start this week. I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Boothe" Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 9:26 PM Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress > > Mike, > > "yes-- someday I too can join in the group of pilots who have actually > BUILT, FLOWN IN, and LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that > little podunk airport..." > > Just trying to catch up to Chris Tracy! By Golly, I think he's going to > finish before me! > > Gary Boothe > Cool, Ca. > Pietenpol > WW Corvair Conversion, mounted > Tail done, Fuselage on gear > (15 ribs down.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cuy, > Michael > D. (GRC-RXD0)[ASRC Aerospace Corporation] > Sent: Monday, September 07, 2009 3:43 PM > To: pietenpol-list@matronics.com > Subject: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress > > Aerospace Corporation]" > > > Gary-- every little step that you take forward like you butt ribs being > complete3d for the center section and the metall attachement fittings are > ALL GREAT signs of step-by-step progress that you are making toward the > day > that your new Pietenpol is surrounded by onlookers trying to ge > the first look at YOUR new Pietnepol at Brodhead ! Every litttle step > of > progress like that is awe inspiring and makes you feel like "yes-- someday > I > too > can join in the group of pilots who have actually BUILT, FLOWN IN, and > LANDED MY airplane on the hallowed grounds of that little podunk airport > that > has become all too familiar to us followers as the birthplace of new > Pietenpols. I am forever impressed by the wonderful new planes that you > gents are > cranking out and I hope to live to be 90 to be there to watch the > Pietenpol > torch be passed ala the Olympics to newer and newer generations of low > and slow flyers. What a joy in my next 20-30 years it will be to see the > up > and coming Pietenpol builders build, create, test fly, and impress the > living > crap out of the glasspanel nundnicks at Oshkosh where biblically the > "foolish shall confound the wise" !! I love it ! Long live der > Pietenpol > Air Camper, GN-1, and variants thereof. > > Mike C. > > Cleveland, OH > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:23 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: MY PANEL Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair Not only is the birdseye maple beautiful but the indian head pennies are a nice touch. Jim B. On Sep 8, 2009, 899PM wrote: Here is a shot of my finished panel. The extremely figured Birdseye maple is some that I have been holding onto for over 20 years. Making engine noises is even more fun now. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262074#262074 Attachments: http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1250_134.jpg ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:12:52 PM PST US From: Wayne Bressler Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL Your inclinometer looks similar in principal to the one used in the Spirit of St. Louis. Very well done. http://www.riekerinc.com/M-Inclinometer/ryan_nyp_spirit_of_st.htm Wayne Bressler Jr. Taildraggers, Inc. taildraggersinc.com ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:08 PM PST US From: "Barry Davis" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: New Directors for EAA Just back in town and checking my mail. Jack, thanks for the kind words. Yes, I have been interviewing for EAA Board of Directors since before Sun n Fun and attended a couple of meetings in Oshkosh. I am very excited about lending my experience to EAA and look forward to the next three years of service. Yes, we now have a Piet Builder on the board! 4 of the Big Piets are at the airport and are to have their inspections and sign-offs on the 19th of this month. Whew! it's been a long time coming. 6 steel tube Piets in 6 and 1/2 years. I can't say that we have had some test flights, but so far, hands-off. We raised the leading edge of the horiz stab 5/16" and that really made a difference. So far, that has been the only adjustment. Further testing will determine if that is correct. We should have more time in the near future to post pictures and specs, but right now the goal is to fly off the 40 hours and FLY SOMEWHERE together as a group. Thanks again Barry Davis NX973BP PS: We did manage to get N Numbers of N971BP thru N976BP. That gives us 1 through 6 and the "BP" stands for Bernard Pietenpol and/or Big Piet. (also 976 is our EAA Chapter number) _____ From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jack Phillips Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2009 2:41 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: New Directors for EAA I just got my new Sport Aviation and read that three new directors of EAA are Homebuilders, and include Barry Davis, who formed the "Big Piet" builder's group. Way to go Barry! We actually have a Pietenpol builder on the EAA Board of Directors. Maybe my letter to Tom Poberezny after the Pietenpols got short shrift in the Homebuilt Review at OSH did some good (actually, I expect they had already chosen Barry at that time). I did recommend to Poberezny that when he retires in two years, one of the requirements for his successor should be that he/she had actually built an airplane. Congratulations, Barry! Jack Phillips NX899JP Raleigh, NC ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:01 PM PST US Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL From: "899PM" Jim, I was wondering if anyone would notice those pennies. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262348#262348 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:00 PM PST US From: Jim Subject: Re: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress Jim Boyer Santa Rosa, CA Pietenpol builder with Corvair You have a noisy camera Chris? Or was this picture taken by your wife one of the times you were working on the Piet? Jim B. On Sep 8, 2009, catdesigns@att.net wrote: Not too big yet but he does like to eat. You may not have notice in the center section picture there is a couch in the garage right now. Me and the dog get caught sitting on it watching TV way too often. Maybe Gary WILL catch up to me. Chris Sacramento, CA WestCoastPiet.com Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Clif Dawson" Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 2009 7:54 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Gary Boothe's progress > > Either that or Chris is groveling around on the floor. > Just how big is this dog anyway? > > Clif > >> > >> So Gary, >> Are you just going to take that? >> I think Chris just said you have dog's breath. >> >> >> Gary >> I thought I felt you breathing down my neck but it was just the dog. >> Chris > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 03:17:39 PM PST US Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish From: "Bill Church" Huh? Why would you want to use paint? The purpose of the varnish is to seal the wood, to protect it from humidity changes and, ultimately avoid rot or decay. Appearance has nothing to do with it. Aside from the fact that paint would most likely be heavier (since it takes pigment to give it color), and may or may not provide adequate seal (some paints "breathe"), and the fact that none of it will be seen, there is one more reason to question the use of paint on the wood structure. The fabric is eventually bonded to the structure (whether using Polyfiber, or Stits, or Stewarts or whatever), so whatever is used to seal the wood needs to be compatible with the adhesive. Who knows how paint would stand up to the adhesive, and how well the paint's bond to the wood will stand up? Like others have already said, varnish allows you to visually inspect the wood, whereas paint would not. I've seen photos of the cockpit areas painted (fairly common in the UK), but I think the wood is first sealed with varnish, before the paint goes on. So, what would be your reason for wanting to use paint? Bill C. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:15:58 PM PST US From: "Gary Boothe" Subject: RE: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL Mike, Certainly, I noticed them, too. I didn't want to draw any attention to them, 'cause that's why I carry a pocket knife.... Can't wait to see pics of the rest of your plane! Gary Boothe Cool, Ca. Pietenpol WW Corvair Conversion, mounted Tail done, Fuselage on gear (15 ribs down.) -----Original Message----- From: owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-pietenpol-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of 899PM Sent: Wednesday, September 09, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: Pietenpol-List: Re: MY PANEL Jim, I was wondering if anyone would notice those pennies. -------- PAPA MIKE Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=262348#262348 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:37:09 PM PST US From: "Richard Schreiber" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish Plus you are adding unnecessary weight. The pigmented coating weighs much more than the clear varnish. Rick Schreiber ----- Original Message ----- From: Ryan Mueller Sent: 9/9/2009 1:46:47 PM Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish I would second Doug and Ben's comments. The transparency of a varnished finish makes inspection possible. Your rationale of liking the look of a painted framework.....well, I could understand that in the cockpit areas where you will see it....but you are talking about painting the structure that you cannot see.....so what does it matter what it looks like? Once it's covered you won't see it (hopefully) for years and years..... Ryan On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 8:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote: Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues with painting my wood structures instead of varnish? Thanks again. ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:46 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish From: Robert Ray I read a book about about building a VolksPlane in which it was painted inside and out I don't see any problem with it let's see what the others say. I plan on epoxying where UV doesn't reach. That way a repair can be lightly sanded then glued to. The outside will be Marine Spar varnish Z-flag Ship with max UV block. You could go to a marine site to get your paint but probably any good exterior primer and latex would work. Note I havn't built a plane just in the process of doing so. so I'm no expert just my .02 cents worth. Russell On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of > painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not > readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine > with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may > see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues > with painting my wood structures instead of varnish? > > Thanks again. > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 10:05:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish From: Robert Ray I also heard about a wooden plane that was kept inside torn down 30 years later and no varnish no paint no nothing despite this, the ribs were in good shape. the secret is keeping wood dry, wood does not dry rot, there is no such thing. the reason wood rots is it's moisture content. If it gets to a certain moisture point then it will rot, the Varnish also changes the surface of the wood for fungal attack, the fungus have had several billion years to perfect there attack on wood, they attach then begin to send root like projections into the wood, varnish seals it off stoping this. There are two different schools of thought on boat building some say seal the boat completly in epoxy some say no just seal the hull and spray the insides with tompson or some thing in that way it can breath. But it's your plane the most important thing is you build it the way YOU want as long as it's safe. Russell On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Robert Ray wrote: > I read a book about about building a VolksPlane in which > it was painted inside and out I don't see any problem with it let's see > what the others say. I plan on epoxying where UV doesn't reach. > That way a repair can be lightly sanded then glued to. > The outside will be Marine Spar varnish Z-flag Ship with max > UV block. You could go to a marine site to get your paint > but probably any good exterior primer and latex would work. > > Note I havn't built a plane just in the process of doing so. > so I'm no expert just my .02 cents worth. > > Russell > > On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote: > >> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look of >> painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood not >> readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be fine >> with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they may >> see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any issues >> with painting my wood structures instead of varnish? >> >> Thanks again. >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 10:20:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish From: Matt Redmond I think even if you do your best to keep it dry you'll always have the chance condensation will accumulate in fabric-covered structures. I wouldn't think of failing to varnish anything I couldn't inspect easily and often. On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:00 AM, Robert Ray wrote: > I also heard about a wooden plane that was kept inside torn down 30 years > later and no varnish no paint no nothing despite this, the ribs were in > good shape. > the secret is keeping wood dry, wood does not dry rot, there is no such > thing. > the reason wood rots is it's moisture content. If it gets to a certain > moisture point then it will rot, the Varnish also changes the surface of > the wood for fungal attack, the fungus have had several billion years > to perfect there attack on wood, they attach then begin to send root like > projections into the wood, varnish seals it off stoping this. > There are two different schools of thought on boat building some say > seal the boat completly in epoxy some say no just seal the hull > and spray the insides with tompson or some thing in that way it can breath. > But it's your plane the most important thing is you build it the way YOU > want > as long as it's safe. > > Russell > > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Robert Ray wrote: > >> I read a book about about building a VolksPlane in which >> it was painted inside and out I don't see any problem with it let's see >> what the others say. I plan on epoxying where UV doesn't reach. >> That way a repair can be lightly sanded then glued to. >> The outside will be Marine Spar varnish Z-flag Ship with max >> UV block. You could go to a marine site to get your paint >> but probably any good exterior primer and latex would work. >> >> Note I havn't built a plane just in the process of doing so. >> so I'm no expert just my .02 cents worth. >> >> Russell >> >> On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 9:51 AM, Michael Perez wrote: >> >>> Curious of opinions using paint in place of varnish. I like the look >>> of painted frame work and would like to try it. I would hope that the wood >>> not readily exposed to the elements, (wings, main fuselage, etc.) would be >>> fine with just paint. I plan on using varnish for the cockpit areas as they >>> may see a lot more moisture. (I like the natural wood look there.) Any >>> issues with painting my wood structures instead of varnish? >>> >>> Thanks again. >>> >>> * >>> >>> " target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Pietenpol-List >>> ttp://forums.matronics.com >>> _blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution >>> * >>> >>> >> > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:03:52 PM PST US From: "Clif Dawson" Subject: Re: Pietenpol-List: Paint in place of varnish All the Brits seem to paint theirs.There would be more UV protection. Of course that shouldn't be an issue under the fabric. :-) I agree that staining and discolouration will be more visible under varnish. I'd better believe in varnish. It's too late now! :-) Clif Plus you are adding unnecessary weight. The pigmented coating weighs much more than the clear varnish. Rick Schreiber I would second Doug and Ben's comments. The transparency of a varnished finish makes inspection possible. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message pietenpol-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Pietenpol-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/pietenpol-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/pietenpol-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.